@ but the LiDAR config is based on distance to the sensor, since the lens must also be the same distance to the sensor (on every camera), to work properly, your setup should work on any camera/setup? Right?
Well yes the distance to sensor will be the same for any camera, assuming the PL mount is properly calibrated/shimmed. But any time you put glass between the lens and the sensor you change the back focus and completely throw off the LiDAR’s calculations. Not by a little bit either. As in, if I removed this little drop in filter, the LiDAR would be off by at least a foot. Since my unit is calibrated for the Breakthrough glass (which is probably 2mm or so thick), I need to always have a 2mm thick piece of glass in there. So I just swap for a clear filter when needed, otherwise the VND stays there pretty much all the time. This is the same reason that cameras with internal ND switch to a clear piece of glass when not in use rather than just removing the ND completely.
That was a lot of fun - seeing your innovative setup idea come to light. Very cool. Thanks Nick
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Great setup! I was going to ask you how you like the Tilta cage, when I saw it's actually Smallrig 😅 Amazing that they look almost identical, yet several items can not be used interchangeably, ProRes Raw and other Raw battle like BS, costing filmmakers a lot of dough.
Phase detect autofocus is awesome but I've only had limited exp. on it through the S5ii. I also own the DJI 4D and lidar seems snappier + not dependent on light, just doesn't lock on as well at times (micro focus hunting). Of course lidar autofocus accuracy falls off so far out but I find myself switching to manual at that point with a higher t stop in most scenarios, not as big an issue as I initially thought. What's your experience between the two mediums? Curious to hear your thoughts!
Each one has its advantages and disadvantages. For example, LiDAR will easily get confused if there are particulates in the air, like haze or smoke. It also isn’t great for faces if you are at an odd angle, like looking down at a face from above. Each technology is getting better all the time, but it is still really a matter of knowing what they can do, and when one or the other (or neither) is the best choice for your particular situation.
I also have the breakthrough DFM VND on my raptor and I plan to use the DJI lidar. How did you calculate the back focus difference for the DJI flange distance adjustment setting?
I do sometimes use the Mirage VND, which is also very good. But sometimes I like going without a matte box. I like the Breakthrough because it essentially converts the V-Raptor into an internal ND camera (for PL lenses). That is somewhat like how the ARRI Alexa works. When you ask whether a "normal adapter" will work the same way, I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking whether the LiDAR will function if we use a non-drop-in adapter, and calibrate it properly? Yes. But the issue is that because I have my LiDAR calibrated for use WITH the drop-in filters on my RED, then to keep back focus consistent on the Sony I must always have some piece of glass in the space between the back of the lens and the sensor. Yes, we could forego the drop-in filter and calibrate without one, but I use them so much that it makes sense for me to calibrate the LiDAR with the rear filters in place. Does that make sense?
Hey Nick, thanks for all the great content. I recently purchased the Cinema DFM for my KX. I haven't used it yet and would like to know what's the best DIY way to check if I need to shim the DFM?
You should not need to shim the DFM. They are very carefully calibrated out of the factory and come with a card indicating the exact flange depth measurement down to 0.01mm.
Sorry I don’t have a Mofage Poco. I bought the breakthrough for the widest possible compatibility, it has more flange depth clearance than any other twist on adapter on the market. I am sure the poco is fine, as long as it will clear the lenses you want to use it with.
Also the breakthrough has a very wide range from 1.5 to 11 stops which is virtually all usable. I don’t think anything else has that much usable range. It’s more expensive, but as they say, “buy once, cry once.” For me it has been well worth it.
You may be thinking of the Vespid Cyber, not the Arles. And in either case, if you alter back focus (using a rear filter like I have here), you will always need a back focus adjustment in the lens profile.
@ yeah I seen a video a while back ago from Josh Make Art Now when the RS3 pro came out with LiDAR. Cool thing about LiDAR is it has perfect focus in low light.
A VND filter made of two opposing polarizing filters is NEVER GOOD........ even if it's called high quality on social media. Use fixed ND filters or use Sony's electronic variable ND filters (or the Tiffen or Panavision electronic VND. )
I've had great success with the Breakthrough VNDs for the past 11 months or so. Almost every video on the channel features footage shot with them. Holds up just fine in the uncompressed 8k raw too 🙂
The Lidar distance tip is a good one!
Thanks! Distance and back focus must both match. So cameras with internal ND will not match the calibration of cameras without.
@ but the LiDAR config is based on distance to the sensor, since the lens must also be the same distance to the sensor (on every camera), to work properly, your setup should work on any camera/setup? Right?
Well yes the distance to sensor will be the same for any camera, assuming the PL mount is properly calibrated/shimmed. But any time you put glass between the lens and the sensor you change the back focus and completely throw off the LiDAR’s calculations. Not by a little bit either. As in, if I removed this little drop in filter, the LiDAR would be off by at least a foot. Since my unit is calibrated for the Breakthrough glass (which is probably 2mm or so thick), I need to always have a 2mm thick piece of glass in there. So I just swap for a clear filter when needed, otherwise the VND stays there pretty much all the time. This is the same reason that cameras with internal ND switch to a clear piece of glass when not in use rather than just removing the ND completely.
@ yeah, that makes sense.
I am so blown away by your creative solutions!
That was a lot of fun - seeing your innovative setup idea come to light. Very cool. Thanks Nick
Great setup! I was going to ask you how you like the Tilta cage, when I saw it's actually Smallrig 😅 Amazing that they look almost identical, yet several items can not be used interchangeably, ProRes Raw and other Raw battle like BS, costing filmmakers a lot of dough.
Phase detect autofocus is awesome but I've only had limited exp. on it through the S5ii. I also own the DJI 4D and lidar seems snappier + not dependent on light, just doesn't lock on as well at times (micro focus hunting). Of course lidar autofocus accuracy falls off so far out but I find myself switching to manual at that point with a higher t stop in most scenarios, not as big an issue as I initially thought.
What's your experience between the two mediums? Curious to hear your thoughts!
Each one has its advantages and disadvantages. For example, LiDAR will easily get confused if there are particulates in the air, like haze or smoke. It also isn’t great for faces if you are at an odd angle, like looking down at a face from above. Each technology is getting better all the time, but it is still really a matter of knowing what they can do, and when one or the other (or neither) is the best choice for your particular situation.
I also have the breakthrough DFM VND on my raptor and I plan to use the DJI lidar. How did you calculate the back focus difference for the DJI flange distance adjustment setting?
Lol how is breakthrough vnd the sceret sauce ??
But why not use the VND from the tilta mirage mattebox? Wouldn't a normal lens adaptor work the same way?
I do sometimes use the Mirage VND, which is also very good. But sometimes I like going without a matte box. I like the Breakthrough because it essentially converts the V-Raptor into an internal ND camera (for PL lenses). That is somewhat like how the ARRI Alexa works. When you ask whether a "normal adapter" will work the same way, I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking whether the LiDAR will function if we use a non-drop-in adapter, and calibrate it properly? Yes. But the issue is that because I have my LiDAR calibrated for use WITH the drop-in filters on my RED, then to keep back focus consistent on the Sony I must always have some piece of glass in the space between the back of the lens and the sensor. Yes, we could forego the drop-in filter and calibrate without one, but I use them so much that it makes sense for me to calibrate the LiDAR with the rear filters in place. Does that make sense?
Hey Nick, thanks for all the great content. I recently purchased the Cinema DFM for my KX. I haven't used it yet and would like to know what's the best DIY way to check if I need to shim the DFM?
You should not need to shim the DFM. They are very carefully calibrated out of the factory and come with a card indicating the exact flange depth measurement down to 0.01mm.
@@nick_salazar Thanks for the quick reply. Appreciate it.
Cool🎉Thank You
If you could compare the breakthrough to the poco adapter you’d be the goat. I can’t find anyone that’s done this
Sorry I don’t have a Mofage Poco. I bought the breakthrough for the widest possible compatibility, it has more flange depth clearance than any other twist on adapter on the market. I am sure the poco is fine, as long as it will clear the lenses you want to use it with.
Also the breakthrough has a very wide range from 1.5 to 11 stops which is virtually all usable. I don’t think anything else has that much usable range. It’s more expensive, but as they say, “buy once, cry once.” For me it has been well worth it.
I love your clickbait (clearly false) titles!
Haha, right after I published I considered changing it to "the missing ingredient" but decided to just leave it. The secret is out, I guess ;-)
Nice setup :-) can you tell me what 90° angled USB-C Cable are you using on the DJI Lidar?
This one: amzn.to/3YLQ3uK
Doesn’t the DZO lenses not have to be calibrated with DJI LiDAR? Thats the reason to get them for no calibration
You may be thinking of the Vespid Cyber, not the Arles. And in either case, if you alter back focus (using a rear filter like I have here), you will always need a back focus adjustment in the lens profile.
@ yeah I seen a video a while back ago from Josh Make Art Now when the RS3 pro came out with LiDAR. Cool thing about LiDAR is it has perfect focus in low light.
How do you mount the Lidar to the mirage?
Measured, drilled, and attached using two M3 button head screws.
@@nick_salazar smart
Do you have link to that 90 degree cable? Was just looking at mine and thinking uts probably going to short out soon because of the bending.
Right here: amzn.to/3YLQ3uK
@nick_salazar Thanks man!
You just need the G-Master 50 1.2 and you’ll be in business
I thought about it but opted for the 1.4 instead.
@ nothing wrong with both 😎
A VND filter made of two opposing polarizing filters is NEVER GOOD........ even if it's called high quality on social media. Use fixed ND filters or use Sony's electronic variable ND filters (or the Tiffen or Panavision electronic VND. )
I've had great success with the Breakthrough VNDs for the past 11 months or so. Almost every video on the channel features footage shot with them. Holds up just fine in the uncompressed 8k raw too 🙂