From ancient times names were written phonetically as heard by the recorder or scribe. The way the name was heard was the way it was phonetically recorded because spelling was not yet standardized. Standardized spelling began in 1400/1500s and increased at a snails pace. “Precise” spelling of names did not become significant for the masses until 1800s when literacy was becoming the norm rather than the exception. American English became law about 1906. This writer read one royal record where the then King is phonetically referenced, intentionally it seems, with every variously spelled version of his name known to exist.
I had this come up. (On Names) My great uncle was French so he was born Luc Pierre. In America he is known as Luke Peter. Luke Peter is in quotes behind Luc Pierre on my Ancestry tree. Peers are commonly called Peers of the Realm and can sit in the House of Lords.
Very interesting!🤔 Imagine how we would be called if people learned to use proper name’s instead of going the easy route and changing names to their convenience.😊
@1goofeygirl I agree with the latter part of your comment, folks changing names for convenience. The military has done it to troops before. Talk about chaos, around retirement time.
Thanks for the tip about Peers of the Realm. I'm not a fan of putting names in quotes or parentheses. Instead, I recommend and put alternate spellings or name changes in facts for that purpose.
Suffix: I have put a crown emoji when tracing the inheritance of title, found useful In UK we tend not to use 3rd, junior etc. I put all titles in suffix on Ancestry as no where else to put them! e.g. Rev, Dr, Capt, Sir
I've found that many believe my family just suddenly left Sweden and came to own a bunch of land in Scotland, because there's no record of them prior to 1439. Stories I found suggest they actually came from Ireland to fight in the 2nd War of Independence, even down to the exact village that was given to one of the brothers by Robert the Bruce. I swear I'm a descendant of the Neilsons of the Red Hand, but I just can't prove it. It gets so frustrating 😤
So frustrating indeed! I’ll think I’m getting closer to an area in my tree only to find there are other ones that share most same info except birth place, different spouse etc. 😂ack! Good Finding!🙏🏼
I feel Devon's pain with names. I have 2 middle names. my accountancy qualification certificate came with just 3 names, asked them to change it, did not feel it was me! Used to be problem with early computer entry but not so difficult now. Live in UK so not a problem with driving license as only have to change address not re-apply each time you move house.
Signatures don't help when people were illiterate and they put an X or a +, "his mark" or "her mark". So Shakespeare didn't spell his name consistently? I think he was probably just being creative or awkward, or copying his relatives who all had different spellings?! It would help if records were transcribed exactly as written, but sometimes the writing is so hard to decipher or too faint so it's not really possible. One 'Louisa' was mis-transcribed as Saveria or something like that. It was (almost) clearly Louisa on the photo.
In the UK and the British Empire, "Esquire" was a default title any male could use as an alternative to "Mr" until only a few decades ago. I think it would be considered old-fashioned now but it might still happen. I myself have had post addressed with the suffix "Esq." with no irony intended and I am a nobody.
@@TheUnhousedWanderer I found one record of one of the earliest Kellans in England and it said 'Kelland or Holland' so I wondered if Holland was where they originated from, or if it was just the way the name was so hard to read in scrawled handwriting!
My daddy’s name was Raymon Leroy. From the time he was a teen he was known as Baldy, but his signature was always RL or Raymond. Yes. With a D added.
From ancient times names were written phonetically as heard by the recorder or scribe. The way the name was heard was the way it was phonetically recorded because spelling was not yet standardized. Standardized spelling began in 1400/1500s and increased at a snails pace.
“Precise” spelling of names did not become significant for the masses until 1800s when literacy was becoming the norm rather than the exception. American English became law about 1906.
This writer read one royal record where the then King is phonetically referenced, intentionally it seems, with every variously spelled version of his name known to exist.
I had this come up. (On Names) My great uncle was French so he was born Luc Pierre. In America he is known as Luke Peter. Luke Peter is in quotes behind Luc Pierre on my Ancestry tree.
Peers are commonly called Peers of the Realm and can sit in the House of Lords.
Very interesting!🤔 Imagine how we would be called if people learned to use proper name’s instead of going the easy route and changing names to their convenience.😊
@1goofeygirl
I agree with the latter part of your comment, folks changing names for convenience.
The military has done it to troops before. Talk about chaos, around retirement time.
Thanks for the tip about Peers of the Realm.
I'm not a fan of putting names in quotes or parentheses. Instead, I recommend and put alternate spellings or name changes in facts for that purpose.
Suffix: I have put a crown emoji when tracing the inheritance of title, found useful
In UK we tend not to use 3rd, junior etc. I put all titles in suffix on Ancestry as no where else to put them! e.g. Rev, Dr, Capt, Sir
It's frustrating that there's no where else to put them other than creating a custom fact.
In Cumberland England an unmarried women without a title was often described as Mrs, a maiden lady usually on a death notice
Oh! That's a great tip. Thanks for taking time to share.
I've found that many believe my family just suddenly left Sweden and came to own a bunch of land in Scotland, because there's no record of them prior to 1439. Stories I found suggest they actually came from Ireland to fight in the 2nd War of Independence, even down to the exact village that was given to one of the brothers by Robert the Bruce.
I swear I'm a descendant of the Neilsons of the Red Hand, but I just can't prove it. It gets so frustrating 😤
That's a hard timeframe to work in.
So frustrating indeed! I’ll think I’m getting closer to an area in my tree only to find there are other ones that share most same info except birth place, different spouse etc. 😂ack! Good Finding!🙏🏼
I feel Devon's pain with names. I have 2 middle names. my accountancy qualification certificate came with just 3 names, asked them to change it, did not feel it was me! Used to be problem with early computer entry but not so difficult now. Live in UK so not a problem with driving license as only have to change address not re-apply each time you move house.
Oh! That's cool that you don't have to reapply whenever you move. Thanks for sharing your multiple name challenges. It's a fun club to be in.
In England now esq. used as term of respect. e.g. when addressing a letter "Henry Brown esq."
Thanks.
According to a document of land titles my family owned, there are about 5 or 6 different spellings of my last name in only a couple hundred years
I bet there might be several more, just 'misspellings'.
Signatures don't help when people were illiterate and they put an X or a +, "his mark" or "her mark". So Shakespeare didn't spell his name consistently? I think he was probably just being creative or awkward, or copying his relatives who all had different spellings?!
It would help if records were transcribed exactly as written, but sometimes the writing is so hard to decipher or too faint so it's not really possible. One 'Louisa' was mis-transcribed as Saveria or something like that. It was (almost) clearly Louisa on the photo.
Fair enough point about signatures. When you don't have them, you have to go to the next best choice for names.
My ancestor was known as both Honorable and Esquire, so I'd say a lawyer or politician.
Potentially. It all depends on time and location.
In the UK and the British Empire, "Esquire" was a default title any male could use as an alternative to "Mr" until only a few decades ago. I think it would be considered old-fashioned now but it might still happen.
I myself have had post addressed with the suffix "Esq." with no irony intended and I am a nobody.
As far as alternate spellings, you'd think it would be easier to find a Kjellander...
That would be rather difficult.
I wonder if that is where the surname Kelland originated from?!
@@yahccs1 they came from Goteland, Sweden. I feel like Kelland might be Scottish...
@@TheUnhousedWanderer I found one record of one of the earliest Kellans in England and it said 'Kelland or Holland' so I wondered if Holland was where they originated from, or if it was just the way the name was so hard to read in scrawled handwriting!
? One person is 7 generations back and one person is eight Genearations back what is their relationshop?
Oh, and he was to be knighted, but refused to kneel to Queen Victoria, according to a few sources.
That's interesting