@@mikeruiger7174 Its Nojima the lead scriptwriter, not Nomura to blame for these weird timeline shenanigans, Nomura wanted to make this trilogy it as close to a 1 to 1 remake but nojima and kitase wanted to make drastic changes. In the end I feel like if the devs are right, then all of this will make clear sense in part 3 as it is supposed to seamlessly link to advent children, so I don't think the end result will be too different.
Every time I felt like I had a grasp on what was going on, we had a Zack scene, which just cancelled all understanding and put me right back to, "What is going on?"
@zzk486 I feel you. I'm completely open to a few new twists in the tale, but this feels like a box of frogs has been opened and my brain is fried trying to piece it all together.
@@mercuriosity3133 I think making this all take place after and just continue the story would have been way smarter, they already have zack alive which no one asked for but still killed aerith which a lot of ppl didn’t want.
I want to point out a cheeky gameplay detail in the beginning of the Jenova fight - notice that Cloud is the only party member without a full limit break gauge, sort of implying the other members are in a heightened emotional state having witnessed Aerith's death yet Cloud is not in a heightened emotional state. Evidently, in retrospect the limit break thing is something that they wanted to do in the original game but never did.
@@dawsonsloneCloud is in denial that Aerith is dead. He's also flipping through multiple timelines and can't figure out what's real. While she does die she also wakes up.
If you are following latest Sony moves and plans with live service games and Square Enix devs saying multiple times that series is going to change you realise rather quickly FF series will merge not only with KH universe but also XV, XVI, Forspoken, or even reskined final fantasy XV named Reynatis and Verum rex, FF VII Rebirth Is certainly merge with Dissudia narration as mentioned by Tetsuya Nomura latest statement about story focused Dissidia, plus you got Fanitsu interview about FF14 2nd rebirth, due to similarities of same enviroments, map architecture (XV,16,Forspoken, Rebirth, Evercrisis) Glenn mobile character is also in Rebirth and if worlds merge this means mobile mechanics of Evercrisis will be as well part of Playstation 5 Dissidia multiplayer game
It's also potentially worth factoring in Zack and his other timeline variants.Specifically, Zack wraps Aerith's ribbon around his hand and for some of the timelines he either does or does not have it. It's likely that just as with variants of Stamp the dog, the ribbon is a visual clue as to which "Zack" we are looking at.
I find It funny that they used the same thing in bravely Second. Ringabell became a timeline cop thing, só we knew the ringabell of the First game was the one with a ribbon on his arm, while the "other" ringabell was the one without the ribbon.
I think this is gonna come back around with Aerith too. The Aerith who goes on a date with Cloud gets a flower pin that she pins to her jacket. I think this is setting up to be a visual clue in Part 3 that will indicate a difference in what version of Aerith we're seeing.
Meh. Usually when you sacrifice your queen you do so as an offensive maneuver for an attack, Like Dubov did with Karjakin in 2020. For those who don't know that game, go watch it. It's truly amazing, especially Dubov's queen sacrifice. You are correct, though, that sometimes a queen sacrifice is needed in the endgame, but this is almost always done to force a draw and not a victory. So I don't think your analogy works here. EDIT: If you edit your post, however, and change "to save the King" to "to finish the enemy," then it would work. 😀
My understanding is that Aerith is sort of an anchor for all the timelines, while both zack and cloud are in a way beings who are somewhat aware of the branching timelines. kinda like multiversal beings like what sephiroth is in the remake. I have a feeling Zack cloud and aerith might end up being the party for the final battle in part 3, after a merging of all timelines. Zack's importance to the story and his new quest to unite the timelines and save everyone might just end up with sephiroth's plan dead.
Boh,Aerith and Jenova,are.....the struggle Is between these two entities,and Cloud Is the "tool" bound to both of them,that both of them Need to have by their side to reach their goal...
I played the final fight on dynamic and died on the final phase when Sephiroth had a sliver of health left, the lose screen was so confusing, like it had like 4-5 options and two of the options can be read the same way like the text was so similar, and I was so tired it was like 3am i thought the final part was going to be an hour not 4 hours. So I clicked the one that says “start at the beginning of this battle” or something like that and started me at phase one and i was so mad. I just turned the difficulty to easy and ran it back, that fight had so many phases that it literally took me around an hour on dynamic, i was not doing all that again.
Same. Had Sephiroth down to literally 5% health when he suddenly caught both Cloud and Aerith in his Octaslash limit and it was game over. It was 4am and I was running on fumes, so I switched to easy as well. That fight definitely felt like it took me close to an hour on dynamic difficulty.
definitely done this XD *start from checkpoint* and im back at my auto save from 3 hrs ago.....fortunately the game is pretty generous but the checkpoint option is borderline useless
IMO I think this approach could work, in theory. Cloud tried to save Aerith, seems succeed but failed, stuck in denial, become most underdog version Cloud we have. Lost his mom, lost his home. Failed to protect Aerith and pretend to be because denial. Then believe he failed to protect Tifa because his mind is hacked, fell to the deepest bottom. The rise will be epic. But jumping between Rebirth timeline, Zack timeline, the give-in end timeline, maybe-OG timeline, plus 3 different Sephiros boss fights, confused players way too much.
Aerith transcended her physical body, she is now truly Sephiroth's counterpart and the writers are referencing her ability to reach out from the lifestream and communicate with others, the same way Sephiroth has been appearing before Cloud all through out the remake project, they are probably discarding the Jenova clone Sephiroth in favor of this. For now she chooses to interact with Cloud, probably because his status as a Sephiroth clone makes him the most convenient person to do so and perhaps also because he is the one who needs her help the most
I don't think theyre doing away with the jenova/sephiroth clone, as pretty much everywhere sephiroth appeared before cloud prior to the ending, it was through a remnant. That and you still refers to his reunion theory. I think sephiroths power within the lifestream comes more from the concept of "that which is not born of the lifestream, cannot return to it", much like the Gi. Sephiroth is just so contaminated by jenovas genetic material that he cannot truly die, the same as jenova herself, so like the OG he has the power to manipulate the jenova cells of others and aerith can do the same with the lifestream. So yeah, she truly is Sephiroth counterpart and always was, it's just better displayed now. But the Jenova reunion is still relevant.
@@golgariblightwarlockyeah it seems top basically be a thing that the lifestream of every universe is connected, and given that we know from the 97 OG that the real Sephiroth is likely tied to the lifestream he knows all of this, and it just took one break in the strand of fate for him to become aware of the multi-verse. Similarly Aerith's communion with the lifestream at the temple seems to be what connected her finally. The only strange thing still is the way she has that random moment of clarity at the end of Remake and then it's gone come Rebirth.
The next game will have a good portion dedicated to having Cloud out of commission after he falls into the life stream and gets major Mako poisoning. They'll have lot's of room to play with that, exploring timeline's traveling between them and exploring that idea to its fullest
@wiziek original story is Cloud and Zack is the same physical body but different soul. Just many stories told around, monkey magic or horus and seth. Single physical body with multiple soul.
@@wiziek no, it wasnt, neither are Remake and Rebirth for that matter, these practically take place AFTER Advent Children actually, at least Sephiroth is a version of himself after Advent Children
@@TheMantheon563 I don't think so, I always think Advent Children happens 2 years after they beat Sephiroth (both OG and FF7R) so if we want to predict how this FF7R ending, we could look at how FF7 Advent Children
Part 2 ended a little earlier than I thought it would (I thought we’d get to Northern Crater and Meteor summoning) and given the expanded story they are introducing Part 3 will need to be massive (Northern Crater, Wutai, return to Midgard, Rocket town, return to Junon, Weapon battles, Cloud missing, the ending etc) so I won’t be surprised if they do another Intergrade to delve into Vincent and or Cids backstories to help lighten the load
Given how many times the word “Reunion” was mentioned. I guess we can assume that’s the title of the third game, even though Crisis Core already took it?
Thanks for giving such a good explanation of what transpired. I understand why some might be disappointed with the ending, saying that it was too convoluted and not impactful, but personally, after I saw Cloud stopping the sword of Sephiroth and then saw Aerith pass away, I experienced something I hadn't experienced before. The sadness that tells me I should cry, but at the same time, I couldn't. The sense of emptiness. The moment I realized that Aerith was still there, just in a different way, and when Zack asked Cloud to save her, I was filled with hope. Just like when Cloud in the original said he would meet Aerith again. I haven't had anyone close pass away in my life, and I do not dare to compare it to a game, but now I have a slightly better understanding of how the hope of meeting someone again, even in the afterlife, or the hope of bringing someone back, can influence the perception of a dramatic event. If I was presented explicitly with Aerith being impaled, I would cry my eyes out, but that would be it. I would know that it is the end. But with the ambiguity, I was able to go through a different sort of grieving.
I think once Cloud snaps out of it (loose term) and his mind is cleared they are going to flashback to her death and we will see all of it play out. I see what they were trying to do but seeing as we all geared up to, let’s be honest, revisit our OG player emotional breakdowns, it was a risky moment to deviate from. There was so much to take in it was hard to connect with it in the way I imagine many expected. Also Biggs is alive in the alternate timeline and he is then shot dead. The same happened with Wedge. Similarly, it made me think of the Final Destination films 😆, and if you are meant to die it won’t skip you, it will catch up along the line. This was a key factor that I think was a little lost in all there was to take in. For me, Barrett and Dyne made me far more emotional than the ending and I am so pleased as I wanted that to be delivered well. Also Chapter 13 with individual trials (Barret 😢) and the chapter in general! Temple of Ancients was a masterpiece! I think how the next game plays out will hopefully change the ending experience of Rebirth on a replay once the compilation of games is done. 🤞
I had a similar experience. In a way, I think that simply showing Aerith die and have that scene be recreated almost 1 for 1 would be tear-inducing, but the thing that made Aerith's death so impactful is not just because of the depiction of the scene, its the reality of the event and the long term implications that stayed with people throughout the game and elsewhere. I think, despite my reservations, they did manage to take me - someone who expected either cloud to save her, or for her to die and that to be it - and subvert my expectations. I was shocked, I was angry, sad, confused, and ultimately I grieved all over again. I kind of don't want her to be as prominent as Zack was in Rebirth, outside of pivotal moments where she must be there. I would also be okay if its revealed that Cloud can't actually see Aerith, or that he claims he can and it causes grief/strife within the party who are very much upset at him acting like shes alive when they saw her die, etc. There's a lot of ways it could go, but I do think showing her every 5 seconds would be the one thing they should not do.
Good catch with fate catching up to people. I'm not sure how the idea that fate is somewhat inescapable plays into the story they are trying to tell, since Rebirth was set up as like 'we defeated the arbiters of fate, now anything can happen!' that seems a bit contradictory, but it does emphasize the fact that after this is all over... Aerith will probably still be ultimately and finally dead and part of the lifestream again.@@lucyoliver7004
The ending was too all over the place for me. Too much jumping from scene to scene with different characters and without much explanation, it felt messy like they were short on time and trying to squeeze stuff in. And that plus the lack of dialogue from other characters during Aerith's death scene (such as Yuffie crying), really took the emotion out of that scene especially with all the scene jumping I kept wondering whether she was actually dead or not. Just feels very convoluted imo
i think the scene jumps were on purpose. It was moment where a new reality was made we don't see entirely. One where he actually did save Aerith and the one we're in where she actually died. But it sucks we don't get to see Cloud move her to the water or even have his outburst at Sephiroth
I agree. I feel like they should have just made a massive game instead of 3 games and released everything at the same time. Might not have been possible but. That's what I wish would have happened.
@@GLUFSAREN They started with PS4 technology, and this wouldn't have been possible back then. Look what Larian has done with Baldur's Gate 3. It's a huge game, but not as event filled as FF7R.
@@makisbizarreadventure4669 That's exactly my issue with it. I know it was on purpose and that doesn't make it less messy or contrived. I'm just not a fan of multiple timeline stories I guess as it's very overdone at this point and feels like Rebirth went full Kingdom Hearts. To be honest it baffles me how XVI gets the hate of 'not feeling like FF' when Rebirth feels like the least FF game out of all the mainlines in my opinion
When I first saw cloud block the killing blow… both 14 year old me and 42 year old me left for joy. Then we were (and still are) shrouded in total confusion. What the hell happened? If he saved her… why are the other members so sad? What timeline did he end up in after the big fight? Are we back in the OG timeline? If so… why is the tiny bronco repaired? I do not understand!!
TLDR: Cloud has a shrodingers Aerith Fr tho, my immediate thought when cloud was emotionless and talking to Aerith while the gang was super sad and couldn’t see her, I thought “oh god Jenova is glitching him to still see and talk to Aerith so he can’t develop like he needs to.” I was waiting for her to do a creepy sephiroth smile during the final cutscene, with like a feather or something.
it would def be interesting if they make it so "if you think aerith is gone, then shes gone. but if you think shes still waiting, then she will be there waiting for Cloud" but i wonder how they would make it work
Or Areith wants Cloud to beleive she is still alive because she does not want Cloud - to paraphrase Sepheroth from an earilier scene - 'Fill that hollow heart with rage'. Sepheroth wants Cloud to foster his hate and pain. As he also says to Cloud the first time we see him in Remake, 'Good Cloud. Hold on to that anger'
You would be surprised how many people think that she was Jenova lol. When literally Red’s sensing her contradicts that. That Red scene was specifically made for intention of telling people who thought that is “No she’s the real Aerith”
@@bossmanham Why would Jenova manipulate Red here of all places just to check on Tifa? It doesn’t make sense for Jenova to appear in that scene. They wouldn’t have done Nanaki sensing Aerith to begin with
I kind of feel like Cloud is now currently occupying two timelines at once, hence why he can see both the tear and converse with Aerith. To me, it comes across as not just his mind being fractured, but his very existence!
But if he's simultaneously experiencing a timeline in which he saved Aerith, why would she stay behind when the party leaves on the Tiny Bronco? Why would she be talking about her prayers being able to stop Meteor?
For the many people who don't own a PS5, watching videos like this is the only way to stop unwanted spoilers. I haven't played the game yet, but I felt the need to know what happens on my own terms before seeing it spread across the internet.
@@DrawinandSh1t I did, and find I"m still enjoying the heck out of the game even knowing those spoilers. but the full cutscene video I saw was 13 hours long, and I can definitely see how the much shorter breakdown in this video might be kinder on many peoples' schedules!
Totally get you. At least you’re actively choosing to seek it out yourself, rather than sadly coming across it by chance and leaving the choice out of your hands.
Thanks for this. Wonderful explanation that doesn't go too crazy with shoestring theories. Cloud's mental state will be a huge focus in the next game, with Tifa, and likely Aerith helping him rebuild himself the way he did in the OG.
Hopefully because to me it appears that there are no stakes anymore, everyone is alive in a sense and they even toned down specific scenes like when Berret loses his arm. I love the spectacle that FF7 remake is, but removing all stakes with some multiverse nonsense will not sit very well with me for part 3.
I just finished watching a 16hr cutscene video(took me 3 days to watch it all) and it was such a roller-coaster of emotions. I am loving how they did this remake and glad they decided to make it 3 parts. I was confused with the ending a little thinking it was only 2 timelines, but seeing as it was 3 that makes a lot more sense now. I am so invested in how this whole story is going to end in part 3 and I really hope Zack shows up more. I had to immediately go deep clean my grill for 2 hours after because I could not handle seeing Aerith die again lol.
I saw 5 stamps total so at least 5 timelines were shown, you had the stamp from the end of remake /beginning of rebirth, the stamp from the gift stands with cloud and aerith, the pug stamp with Biggs, the main timeline stamp and the stamp that Jonny is holding as he walks past the church
I'm not surprised you'd have a better opinion of the game when you only watched cutscenes compared to if you played through all the padded side content in the game lmfao. Also Zack has a whole playable moveset introduced at the very end of the game so he is for sure going to play a large part into the next game.
@@Zephhi each to their own but I’ve done all the side missions and world intel now at 112 hrs and personally enjoyed all of it. You could always just, you know, not do the side stuff lol
Aerith's role is definitely going to help Cloud and Tifa when it comes to his fractured mind. My theory is Sephiroth is going to try to stop that event from happening, but Aerith would intervene
That's the problem; Remake was all about preventing the same things that happened in the OG, and now its all about making sure things happen like they happened in the OG?
@@thedarkderp2520I’m confused about something, why does Sephiroth save Tifa in that one scene when she’s inside that mako weapon (unless I’m getting the context wrong) if right before that he had Cloud attack her and make her fall in the mako?
I think that it was a good idea. We all know that Aerith was going to die there and instead of trying to recreate the same exact feeling they knew it would be impossible. We all know she was going to be killed. When we first saw her murder , "that" was the twist at the time in 1997. They're trying to tell a new story and our "twist" will probably come in part 3. Why do we need to see her die over and over again expecting a certain emotional response when the entire world knew she dies at the capital. Lets face it, the game is for returning fans. We wished for her to survive for years and we get a chance this time and its not bad. Same with Zack. Its ok to give us something more rather then the same "exact" story. Who knows, they could kill Cloud next story and then we'll be in pain for another 20 years
It's just that they didn't need a multiverse story to do it. Now the story lost a lot of impact becuase of. It doesn't enrich it, it's shifts the story from personal problems and saving the world to saving a multiverse and death doesn't mean anything.
@@StrikerJaken If you think about it. They didnt change the story, Aerith did die, its just that this is more of a "continuation" of the FFVII storyline in which we thought that everything ended in the FFVII 1997 release, but there was more to it. We sat with just that first part for several years and it turns out that Sephiroth wasn't completely defeated. So I take it as we're finally seeing what he had in store. After you defeated him at the end of the original he just kind of exploded into red/black light or whatever. so technical you could say it wasnt over. th-cam.com/video/xJw_Ds37lQ4/w-d-xo.html 19:32 mark
@@ChaosElementThe story ended. Holy came, Jenova was gone. Even Advent Children put it to rest and the furthest we went with that timeline had Hojo of all things corrupt the Lifestream. No Sephiroth to be found. They added things, for more twists and to have an ending where "everyone" will be happy. However, it being a closed system, actually had stakes for specific character deaths. Now it does not. Aerith was gone. Her death didn't have her jump out and be a mastermind behind the scenes. If any, she was fighting in the lifestream, most likely with Zack by her side. However, that doesn't mean we have to go into multiverse BS. They can tell the same story without that. It wouldn't change a beat.
While I agree that Aerith's death being exactly like in 1997 wouldn't have had as much of an emotional impact now, what they did in Rebirth killed any emotion with her death, at least for me. The constant switching through timelines with multiple Aerith's, the seemingly rushed Forgotten City, the divergence of Cloud "saving" Aerith just to show another reality in which he didn't (and we didn't even really get to see Sephiroth succeed) and then following THAT reality where you can play as Aerith once more just killed any emotional weight her death should have had.
It’s kinda strange they didn’t show the scene with cloud letting Aerith sink into the water. Otherwise the story somehow feels completely different but the net result kinda ends up being the same as the game focuses on the “main” timeline
I agree completely. It's such a bizarre and glaring omission that I'm not convinced that they won't show it in the next game, along with Cloud's speech about how Aerith will never laugh or cry again. In fact, I think that's hinted at since when Aerith 4.0 shows up to fight Sephiroth and she mentions that she heard what Cloud said, and thanked him. But in this game we don't really see him say much after she dies, he just says "I got this." Either way though, the time to show all of that stuff would have been in THIS game, not years later when the next one comes out. Put simply, this was the time when they should have committed but they didn't.
@@J-Dawg81 it's wild right? the people who don't just hate Rebirth, but really really want to make you as miserable as possible because they're unhappy
@@IianaDRK i feel this with zack but my question regarding aerith is that essentially all aeriths would be the same since they share memories right? The only thing an aerith from another timeline would be missing is the main aerith’s memories but it seems like they all know whats going on.
It's basically the same thing as remake.The vast majority of game is incredible.Even far-exceeding remake, and then the ending is like wow okay. It doesn't really ruin anything , but it just creates a lot of questions for the next game that will probably have yet another bonker's ending, despite most of the game being a really great homage to the original. Getting the 99% of these games is worth whatever goofy shit they want to do with the end of them.
I have agree. Even tho I hate the ending to both games with a passion, the first 13 chapters were great. W/E FF7 OG is my canon and nobody can tell me otherwise lol
My exact feeling. I was so frustrated with the ending but the 101 hours I put into it was tons of fun. I would only change the ending 9 out of 10 game for me.
@@stevendouglas3781 I’m glad you liked the ending. But to your point 90% of the game is a rehash of events from almost 30 years ago. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. Aerith ended up dying anyways. They shouldn’t have spoiled the moment with multiverse KH shenanigans
@@stevendouglas3781 I’m pretty sure she’s dead. At least in the main timeline. What I got from the ending was aerith helped cloud fight Sephiroth from the lifestream only to return after the fight. Everyone reacts as if aerith is gone except cloud due to his memories being all messed up. Also his perception of what’s real and what’s not is fucked as well, that’s why he keeps seeing her while the others do not. It was interesting reading your take on things, and I do agree that for the most part the story beats and characterization were done far better in the remakes than the original. Ofc they were very limited in tech back then it’s amazing they put together an incredible story. We can agree to disagree about the ending being terrible. Like I said, I’m happy a whole other generation can enjoy FF7 like I did back in the day, albeit in a different way.
I really appreciate that instead of simply reacting to the ending of Rebirth, that ya'll made an effort to understand what was going on. FF7 Remake was my first FF game ever and I loved it and Rebirth. Keep up the good work!
I hope in the 3rd game they actually defy fate cuz after all this convoluted multiverse bullshit we get the same result, which is Aerith dying. Why make the story more convoluted just to have the same result?
I suppose that's why they established the multiverses. The possibility that Aerith gets revived is high. IF Aerith really still lives in one of those timelines and they merge with the main timeline she might be able to come back.
In zacks time line he saves aerith and cloud but its implied everyone else is dead so it is possible, and I kinda think cloud in zacks timeline is the healthy one without septheroths influence, but yeah I do agree with out will be pissed if it turns out to be a round about way of just telling the same story now after all the wisper crap
They want their cake and eat it too... Look she dies, but there she doesn't, so she get's her happy ending... which she already did. Sephiroth was defeated and she was reunited with Zack in the Lifestream. We saw it in AC. It's just annoying twists for twists sake
This was a big help. I feel the multiple timelines makes the story unnecessarily convoluted, but this video helped make a little more sense of it at least.
Aerith isn't a ghost or Astral projection. She's a bleed from a parallel timeline/universe where Cloud saved her. By having her stay in City of the Ancients, the writers have options for 3 that won't break development. This is clear from the 'timeline changed rainbow', the fact no-one else can see her, Red XIII's detection of her and her dress blowing in the wind. She is a physical manifestation, so it will be interesting to see where SE go with that. Also the quote at the end specifically hints that they will be together again, when cross referenced with Aerith's song.
@@NordicWiseguy The discussion before boarding Tiny Bronco where Cloud asks "will you be fine getting back?" and Aerith basically saying "yes" - referring to "getting back" to the world she belongs in, because she is stuck in this broken split timeline that was created when Cloud deflected Sephiroth. As this commenter said, it's not a ghost or projection, Aerith is literally alive, but basically stuck in the lifestream behind a kind of one sided glass we could call "another world".
@@nickrobi9178 i see it now too after carefully studying the end scene. We literally see Aerith both dying and surviving. Cloud actually managed to save Aerith. Blocking Sephiroth's masamune created a new parallel world where Aerith is alive but other party members can't see it because they are in world 1 wheres Cloud and Aerith are both between these two worlds. That's why only Cloud can see the rift in the sky and others don't. Also before the fight against Sephiroth Aerith said that "I saw what you did back there Cloud. Thank you." Aerith literally thanked Cloud for saving her. World 1 Aerith is dead but now we have two Aeriths alive. One in Terrier timeline with Zack (she is in coma) and now the other Aerith is alive in this new world that Cloud's actions created.
@@NordicWiseguy "I see it now" Me too. On some other videos, we were debating that Aerith was existing in another timeline, what we called the "Deflection" timeline, so that she could exist there while she died in the Prime timeline. Mind you, that didn't entirely make sense. But, it was the best explanation we could come up with. The idea that she is stuck between timelines by being "dead" in one and "alive" in the parallel one in such a way that she can still communicate with Cloud and help him out that way is the best way to explain what happened. Especially when you take into consideration that Sephiroth said "I underestimated you." Aerith is not supposed to have that much of a physical presence from the Lifestream (as far as I know). But, she was able to do it once more by going through the rainbow portal with the help of the white Whisperers.
Finished it today, finally. I really don't know how to feel about this ending, needs some time to marinade. I ended up having more questions than I did at the end of Remake. 😅
Can’t believe you put 3 very clear spoiler warnings in the video on top of clearly stating that the video was about the ending of rebirth which in itself should tell you it’s a spoiler and yet people are still whinging in the comments. I loved the game … up until the ending, the ending I dislike a lot it ruined a pivotal moment in the game and I’m having to watch these types of videos to even try make sense of wtf happened.
The huge boss fights also really messed with it too. If it was just the Jenova fight, I think it could have worked, especially with how you had everyone’s limit gages maxed (with the exception of Cloud’s) with their feelings of grief and anger to start it off. But…it didn’t end there.
It was more interesting when you explained it. I watched the movie version, and while im okay with the story, i didn't like how aerith's death was treated. There's just too many scene transitions, and aerith got neglected. Instead of 😭 i was more 🤔 the entire ending.
While I have only just watched it to the end and I'm still trying to process everything, I have to say that my initial thoughts are in agreement with you. Both Aerith and Cait Sith's scenes lost a bit of impact in this game, but I suppose that was to be expected, since I was already braced for what was to come. But I did think that the team's personal trials in the Temple of the Ancients were very heart-wrenching. And also, I was surprisingly upset over Roche!
I just want to understand why Zack surviving seems to be a point made by the SE. I think in the last game we will be in for a surprise of an Aerith variant will return in the end.
Could it be that Cloud’s mind has so completely deteriorated that he simply hallucinates Aerith still being alive. The game doesn’t show us the burial scene in the lake, so I have a feeling Cloud’s mind is just actively blocking out and rejecting any evidence that she is gone.
I think you're completely right. Cloud clearly doesn't want to realize Aerith is dead at this point. He talks to her like she's still around and made up a narrative in his mind where she just left the groupe and went back to her prayer. He rewrote events unconsciously just like we saw him do with the grunt turning into Zack in Nibelheim's river. The fact Nanaki felt her presence in the cutscene at the end is irrelevant since "multiversal Aerith" might really be here with them, playing along with Cloud's delusion to achieve victory over Sephiroth in the long run. The point is everybody seemed totally broken on the lake's shore except for Cloud who continued as if everything was normal. Tifa looked completely shaken by his cold attitude when he said "yup, let's go" right after Aerith's burial. On the fields afterwards, Cloud is still acting very strange. He's light-hearted and hopeful while everybody's mourning and he doesn't seem to understand what's happening around at all. The thing is, Cloud is too far gone, Jenova's cells have to much of a grip on him right now and nobody could reach him. The whole game showed us his fall into hell as his mental state deteriorated and now he might be at his lowest. But you see, that's why I can't help but be a little bit upset. Things are needlessly convoluted when they should be simple and impactful and now people are not understanding the same things. 😮💨
Most likely. Marlene told to Zack that Cloud didn't make it in time. I hope both Zack and Cloud 2 can save Aerith 2 in part 3. Zack atleast knows that Sephiroth is after her and that he needs Cloud's help if he wants to stop Sephiroth.
@@AkihikoLockhartStrife Aerith was there to help Cloud. It was her spirit. Even Sephiroth said to Aerith "i must admit i underestimated you" and when Aerith asked Sephiroth "how can you want this?" Sephiroth replied to her "Begone you have played your part." Also Aerith saved Zack just moments before Cloud faced Sephiroth. She was there. Also in the ending scene Nanaki sensed Aerith's spirit. Somehow only Cloud can see her spirit just like only Cloud can see the rift in the sky.
@@AkihikoLockhartStrife If she wouldn't have been there Sephiroth wouldn't have tried to attack her. Also she can damage Sephiroth and her healing wind can heal Cloud. She was there alright.
@@AkihikoLockhartStrife i don't. Nanaki sensed Aerith's spirit. This proves she was there. Also she was guiding Zack to help Cloud and even healed him when he fought Sephiroth Reborn.
@@AkihikoLockhartStrife Nomura said there are three worlds in Rebirth. Devs never said anything about only one timeline. There are multiple timelines. According to Sephiroth everytime a fate gets altered a new timeline gets created.
I don't necessarily hate the multiverse plot, but that scene change for Aerith's death was terrible imo. I was about to give the game a 10, but that bumped it down to a 9 and it would have been completely avoidable too imo. They could have just shown the scene playing out like normally, and then afterwards have Cloud act like she was still alive, hinting at the new timeline. Everything would have essentially be the same plot-wise but we would have gotten the full emotional impact of Aerith's death. Instead we get this mish mash of action, drama and timeline shenanigans. The scene doesn't even have time to breath, killing every bit of emotional weight it could have had. It's honestly baffling to me how it made it into the game in such a way, cause this, to me, is the most important scene in the entire story.
Idk im willing to stick with them for this, I feel as if it was paced like that to make the player feel there with Cloud in his confusion and denial. It's a play on the expectations and suspense built up in all the players who know what's *supposed* to happen
I mean Aeriths death is basically meaningless now. Every time an Aerith dies shes just gonna rejoin with Aerith Prime and become stronger until shes The One. shrug
i mean even if they were to show the full death scene like in the OG first and only afterwards show her interacting with cloud and being seemingly alive it still wouldn't have the same emotional impact because of the whole timeline stuff... it's like yeah she might die in one timeline but she's alive in another timeline so she's not really gone. it's pretty clear that she's not completely gone and that she will appear in part 3 so her "death" scene was never gonna have the same impact with this timeline stuff, even if they were to recreate it 1:1.
I think everytime Zack or Cloud defy fate, *since they're the ones who started this whole thing in the first place by combo killing Sephiroth* they inadvertently create another timeline. Now i think Clouds current state, is the start of his mental snap that Tifa will have to pull him out of. Like it's too much information to process, on top of his own struggle to come to terms with the eventual full reveal of who he actually is.
One thing they need to explain in the third game is why aerith, marlene and sephiroth have these interdimensional powers all of a sudden. Why and how does sephiroth become aware of the events of the original game? Etc
I thought he saved her in one timeline, and not in the main time line and now cloud is straddling several time lines hence the multiverse tear in the sky only he can see. So its both she died and didn't and she will return with Zack when all the time lines merge in the 'home coming' Reunion of timelines.
@user-ky8nd2rz4f are you talking about Aerith who literally dated zack ? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 the main reason she likes cloud is because his personality has been merged with Zacks...... You sure you played the game 🤔🤔
I have a theory that the scenes at the lake and when they are fixing the Tiny Bronco are from the OG timeline. That is why Cloud still has the Black Materia. Aerith is still alive.
Call me a hardcore fanboy, I loved the ending, and I loved the execution of it. This is coming from someone who’s played the OG, loves advent children, played the og crisis core, and dirge of Cerberus. Maybe Kingdom Hearts conditioned me for the bonkers storytelling that’s playing out, but whether you like the ending or hate it, you can’t deny that FF7 Rebirth is a Phenomenal game! I’m on board to see this new journey through to the end 💪🏼
Wasn't the biggest fan of the last act but I overall enjoyed the entire game. I just wish Cloud would stop being such a dick and let Tifa help him. I want to see them end up together; there are too many beats and moments in this game to not have that happen
"you can’t deny that FF7 Rebirth is a Phenomenal game!" I outright deny it. The entire FF7 Remake series has been a completely pointless, boring, bloated mess and it's an absolute insult to the original game.
@@funkybuddhaInit lmfao calling it an insult is a stretch Aside from the convoluted timeline stuff everything else in the game respects the ever living hell out of the original. To call it pointless and an insult is just willful ignorance.
aerith - was able to see the future before and can now communicate through lifestream (probably even with her counterparts across dimentions) and possibly bid white whispers to manipulate people in timelines, shes busy playing dimentional whisper chess with sephiroth utilizing the knowledge she had when she was able to see the future. zack - casually being thrown around the timelines by aerith and sephi, seems to be one of the pieces aerith needs to succeed witk whatever shes planning cloud - schizo because of sephi cells, i think he is able to see and experience memories that others with sephi cells have, including his own counterparts across the different worlds, the connection seems especially strong with the clouds that's worlds are merging into his..which may be why he was seeing both the aerith that died and the one that lived at the same time, Could also be the reason why he had zacks memories up until the point when zacks body resisted his own share of the sephi cells.. that same link of course also connects to sephi himself, hense whenever he goes schizo mode he knows how to use his fighting style..whenever he has his schizo moments he is basically in a mind jumble of 3 people.. not to mention that jenova probably trying to manipulate him like she is with sephi.. tho idk what really happens once a world merges into another, maybe the world where aerith lived got overwritten with the one where she dies and aerith is just full on communicating with him through the life stream.
The way I see it is that the original game's story is kind of ambigous in a lot of ways, and Rebirth follows in these footsteps. We are left with a lot of questions, and I can understand why people are upset at the convoluted way they told the final chapter. I feel this is the closest to "having your cake and eating it too" in terms of Aerith surviving or not. Cloud's current state of mind reflects the original mind break he had with Zack's death and honestly makes him a more consistent character, and I am excited to see him work it out with Tifa (and another Aerith?) in the next game. I thought the multiple timelines were told well enough, but it did require the player to pay close attention. It does make the impact of certain scenes lessen, but I feel like you can't recreate those feelings from a game with 27 years of discussion behind it. I believe the remake series is a horrible way to experience FF7, but as a companion to those who are fans? I dunno, I dig it and am super invested on how it plays out. They set up a lot here, I just hope they don't fumble it. To me this is the best case scenario. These games don't invalidate the original, and are interesting in their own way. Who is ready to start part 3 with an unusally happy Cloud snowboarding, with the rest of the party depressed? I know I am
I agree with you I don't know that I would enjoy it as much if I didn't know and love the original so much, at the end I was left confused as fuck I was like ok so Aerith is...kind of dead? Like I feel like her death had no impact this time, I was more sad over the scene with Dyne dying than I was with Aerith because for 1 I expected it and for 2 Cloud kept talking to her and so it was like she isn't gone. I have mixed feelings on the ending, still can't wait for part 3 especially since we didn't get to play as my main man Vincent!!
The ending was epic, but confusing. I knew I was in 2 timelines but you're enjoying it so much and just enjoying how epic it all is, you don't see all these details. What a masterpiece. It's hard to believe they improved upon the original, but boy. Absolutely incredible. Im so glad spirit Aerith will have a role and I'm interested to see what implications it will have.
Thanks for this rundown! This was super clear and helpful. I've been a huge fan since '97, and I've really enjoyed the Remake and Rebirth story so far. (Total respect to those who don't btw! This is all just my opinion.) I'm really interested in what they're doing thematically with multi "timelines" (or streams of memory, or alternate tellings/narratives, or strands of the lifestream - I feel like "timelines" might be a limiting way to describe it but don't know a better one yet!). Is this fundamentally a story about being powerless and stuck in a cycle, *or* about having agency and the potential to change yours' and others' fate? Is it about the costs of defying fate, and how much you're willing to sacrifice? Is it perhaps about reframing and recontextualizing the same story - so that the same core events occur but now they mean something different? Perhaps - now you can forgive yourself for the places you failed, or learn from the paths you didn't take, or take pride in the good fight you fought *even if the outcome isn't what you hoped for*? Is it about reclaiming the story for yourself, rather than having others (manipulative villains, perhaps) tell you who you are, how your story ends, and what it means? I like that we don't quite know what will happen. I like that Aerith's character feels more complex and fleshed out in Rebirth - she's so much more than a one-note martyr or tragic love etc etc. She has humor, she is so excited and in awe to explore the world, she cares so much about her friends (especially Tifa- I LOVE their friendship!). She has questions and doubts, she struggles with her burden of choice, she has a dynamic path of coming into her power. I will understand and still like the story if in the end, she's truly gone in the main timeline. But selflishly, I also appreciate the multiverse concept and the distant possibility - even if only in player's imagination rather than onscreen - that is at least one world where she gets to survive and go on with life and be happy. I like to believe the Planet and fate doesn't require her to sacrifice her life, but it is a choice she can make - and if she does make that choice (as in Rebirth main timeline) then it's even more meaningful and brave because it *was* a choice. I could go on. I'm looking forward to the next game, but in the years til then I'm looking forward to savoring Rebirth in all its glory. To digging into the symbolism, coming up with theories, etc. What a time to be alive :)
Every single one of those "what if's" you pondered, are entirely inferior to the original plot of the game. What a total bummer. It's just another one of those multiple timeline stories now, instead of ONE GREAT story.
enjoy being let down as we always are with all namura led projects, i like how you said you respect other people's opinions then like poor baby when someone voices one.... just lip service, this kinda shallow story perfect for ya, enjoy.... hows sales doing from part 1? less..... thought so@@epicglitter7218
I agree with max, that this sephiroth somehow is from the og game, and know his original plan wont work, so he is trying to merge the worlds so that he can achieve it in a diferent way
Took me 40 hours to beat the game and thats me skipping most of the side missions. It was amazing the music bring back so many good memories especially Crisis Core music.
im not the OP, but I did the same thing. I just did the story and card games (roughly 45 hours) and I think the story was absolutely amazing, just a really poorly handled ending @@crossroads8370
@@soku330 youre either lying or you skipped cutscenes. it has over 13 hours if cutscenes alone. you are saying you beat the entire game in 4 hours? on a first playthrough... right
I'm not sure if this dialogue was skippable if you beat Jenova too fast but during the first phase when Cloud is sending the party members away, he mentions something about not having to worry because he's done this before
Well as it’s going to be a year before this comes out on PC I guess I can’t avoid the ending so here goes. I love FF7 but I don’t love it quite enough to pay 300 to 400 quid for a PS5 I already did that for a ps4 that I ended up giving to my bro after he lost everything when his wife cheated on him I really wish Sony would stop the time exclusive nonsense they keep pulling.
I'd say spoilers, but you're here already, so no point lol. Anyway, here's my 2 cents to all of this chaos. (just a theory) At the end of Remake (Part one) The Aerith we knew left as soon as they left midgar. Starting in rebirth, Aerith didn't actually lose her knowledge of the future to the whispers, her "spirit" went into hiding in another world's version of her taking those memories with her leaving us with a default Aerith personality like in the OG game. The portal she opened at the highway in part one cost her the use of holy, which is why the orb went clear in rebirth because that was the cost of changing fate, when she did this, white whispers were born. The Sephiroth we see in Rebirth that shows up time and again is, still, Jenova. HOWEVER, Sephiroth's "spirit" himself is in this nexus of worlds (Sephiroth Reborn) Searching for the "Real Aerith." This is evidenced by the fact that the whispers are barely visible in this game despite sephiroth taking control of them. We don't see them at all until the weapons show up, where we find that they've been battling in the lifestream at Sephiroth's command against the white whispers who belong to the (((Planet, but also Aerith through proxy as she's the last one who can speak to the planet, and remember, that both the real sephiorth and the real aerith are NOT in the world we're in during rebirth, they're off in different worlds.))) When Cloud both saves and doesn't save Aerith, he creates, and bleeds into a timeline where an Aerith still exists, and Aerith Reborn joins him one last time in the battle of Sephiroth with her white whispers. Sephiroth Reborn and Aerith Reborn now both spiritually exist on seperate planes to the "Real Cloud" Aerith mentions in the forest, however cloud being in both worlds at once lets him see her, and the rift in the sky that only exists on the side where Aerith lives, implying that the world she's in is a dead end world that isn't going to last. (The Aerith in that world is not Aerith Reborn, she is just the product of a world where cloud saves her.) The world where she lives will not last, and this will almost certainly be used to mentally destroy cloud in part 3. It is her destiny to die, and not even in another timeline will she be able to escape her fate. She is not heading to the lifestream at the end of the game, she's genuinely going someplace to pray for Meteor's failure, she will however die like every other world's Aerith. Her death is evidenced by Biggs, Wedge, Zack, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Marlene. Marlene says that when Aerith wakes up in Zack's timeline, Sephiroth will kill her. As in she's fated to die when she awakens. like the Aerith who pushes cloud into the rift in the flowers at the church as he walks through the door. In the timeline where Zack goes to see hojo, He is met with an army of Shinra military about to gun him down like his original death, In the timeline where he goes to save biggs, he is also met with an army of soldiers waiting to gun him down in the exact same way as how he originally died. Biggs took the bullet like he did in Remake's Timeline as he was fated to, but Zack figured out that running instead of fighting would change the timeline. When he jumped down the reactor, he redirected into a timeline where he will still meet with an army of shinra soldiers who will be there to gun him down eventually. Back to REMAKE, When wedge manages to survive the plate crash, he falls and survives, escaping his death, but later at the Shinra tower he is once again pushed from a great height and given the death he was always fated to have. The ONLY Zack that actually lived was the one on the church steps who had not yet made a choice of who to save, and he was sent to wherever the battle with cloud was (Edge of creation?) After that, he wakes up at the church. He, like Aerith, is Unable to escape his fate, but he is starting to find out that if he doesn't fight that fated battle and instead runs, he can live to see another world which will buy him time to find a way to change things. All of the other Zacks have almost certainly met their end no matter what choices they made accept the one that Sephiroth had specifically messed with his whispers I firmly believe that part 3 will be about acceptance, and that no matter what world they go to, each character will have to accept that their death has to happen, which will then tie into Advent Children as Cloud was given false hope of a world where he saved her. The Aerith and Zack we see speaking to him in the movie are probably their Reborn selves who travelled the timelines and learned to accept their fate in the lifestream. Cloud, and us the players, will not be able to escape the loss of Aerith. Quick addition: Every Timeline or World where someone is still alive who shouldn't be, which is Zack in this case, has the rift in the sky signifying the end. Even if you escape your fate, you will end up in a world that collapses in on itself. All of these worlds are actually running in parallel (time wise), which is why Zack skipped straight to aftermath the plate collapse, and Biggs reminds Zack of a cloud that couldn't exist in Zack's timeline. There is no going back or forward in time after the events of Remake, they all run perfectly in sync with rebirth's timeline, overwriting events or undoing them. Aerith Reborn and Sephiroth Reborn are the only two entities that have knowledge of the past, or the original timelines.
Nice write up, this was basically my own feeling of where they are going with this but you wrote it with alot more detail. I have to say I don't like it. It's a very convoluted way of saying the same story but gaslighting us from the start that we could change destiny. So they mix it with Dr. Strange Multiverse and Final Destination bits.
Also - on your "date' with Aerith at the end of the game, you are supposed to pick a present for Aerith, and then some candy. No matter what you choose, you are given something else instead. This is the game's way of explaining your points about Zack. Very well written.
@lukewilson624 I'm glad this game exists, don't get me wrong, but I feel like they were trying to cater to both those who wanted to save her and those who wanted the true timeline. IMO there's a dozen better ways they could have handled the ending, like giving us her true death, only to show a glimpse of Aerith and Cloud talking in the post credits. This whole thing basically just feels like an excuse to give us a little more time with Aerith before she dies. I did however REALLY like the events leading up to her death, like the forest scene and the temple. I don't mind being given false hope, I wouldn't have minded actually saving her, but being given both outcomes kind of sours the moment.
Great discussion, one thing I’d add that’s a small, puzzling, but potentially significant detail: the white feather for Zack and Cloud’s interlude. The game shows it pretty prominently at first but then does nothing really with it so my question is will part 3 do Angeal stuff with its multiverse interludes too…? Is that a seed we’re planting?
Don’t think that was the spirit of Aerith from current timeline, rather that was another Aerith straight up. Possibly the one that survived. The reason nobody else can see her is that they can’t perceive the multiverse. They wouldn’t be able to see Zack either probably
As a huge fan of the original VII, and final fantasy series, i was excited when they annouced a remake. I'm just not a big fan of these multiverse. It just gets over complicated and but the game looks great, but just mixed feeling about it. Kinda taints the beauty of the original story.
I completely agree. The original is a classic, and will always be. I try to play these new ones and all I want to do is go back and play the original. 1997 PS1 FF7 is the original source and story with Advent Children being the sequel, that is the Prime universe. All of this other stuff is "expanded universe". These remakes try to fix something that wasn't broken to begin with. The best thing I read online about the original vs the remake is to think about it like Star Trek, you have the Prime timeline and you have the Kelvin remake timeline. Nothing will ever change or retcon the original, this is just an an alternate universe.
@@charlestonho6733 Being a sequel doesn't automatically make it excusable. Regardless of whether you're making a remake, a reboot, a sequel, an adaptation or a reimagining, the old "doing something different" rebuttal does NOT justify taking a beloved IP and doing something WORSE with it. If you can't do something better, don't even bother using the beloved IP in question; have your work be its own self-contained, original IP (e.g., FFXVII).
FF does this since the first Final Fantasy. Timelines, Timeloops, their outcomes and the multiverse they created. Dissidia, Mobius and Stranger of Paradise are about how all the franchise go back to FF1 in concepts. For example, Chaos, Gilgamesh and Bahamut are everywhere. It's not something new and with Gilgamesh it's pretty obvious.
@@AznabelGaiusDingirLu Apples and oranges. Just cause time-travel and multiverse stuff works in SOME FF games, doesn't mean it will work in ANY FF game. FF is an anthology series, which means that each mainline installment is set in its own world with its own rules, conflict and characters. You can't just shoehorn new rules and new conflicts into a story which was never built to accommodate them and say that it's OK because it worked in an entirely different story with its own different rules, characters and conflicts. And No, I do NOT accept the excuse that what FF7R is doing is OK merely because "it's an alternate world/reality/universe." That lazy copy-out is actually one of the many, MANY reasons why I tend to hate stories which include multiverse theory, on principle.
I feel like these new timelines are implied to be fractures of one original timeline, like pieces breaking off of Gaia's crystal, so to speak. This is different from other multiverses in fiction where timelines multiply in contrast. This is important distinction, because it tells us that Gaia timelines are increasingly unstable. Sephiroth has created a "Reunion" that is both dangerous and necessary.
Aerith's death must happen in order to save the planet... no matter which timeline. As the planet(life stream) tries to save itself from Sephiroth's attempt on playing with fate.
I think a lot of people are missing this simple fact when they say her death is cheapened . . . and you can't understand this just from watching the compilation of the cut scenes. I think this needs time to sink in for a lot of us. It's not a normal multiverse story where Mutiple versions of heroes come together to fight some threat. It's a story where those other timelines literally should not exist and it's kind of a bad thing that they do.
Looks like Cloud is in denial and thinks Aerith is alive still, even though she is actively present through the life stream. He moves on rather quickly which i found odd, then realized hes going through the stages of grief. and hes still at the first one
@user-ky8nd2rz4f yeah Cloud clearly breached the fate and saved Aerith in different timeline. It couldn't be any clearer. Do we really need Rebirth ultimania to tell us something that is self explanatory?
Does anyone understand the aftermath of the cetra temple? One minute we were chasing aerith and gave serphiroth the black material, the minute later we wake up in the jungle and everyone was like “what happened in the temple? Did he beat your ass?”. What? Didn’t everyone see what happened??? Are we in an alternative reality from the chapters before???
Maybe the whispers blocked their view? Yea I didn't like that either, I felt like the gang would have witnessed what Cloud did, but apparently they didn't answer Aerith covered for him by lying about how Sephy got the black materia
basically SQEX create "Schrödinger's cat" like story....... tbh skipping cloud enrage after sepiroth stab, kinda disappoint for me, i really hope that phrase be Voiced sadly SQEX skip it
Did you understand Loki tho? I think the problem here is that they did a poor job. They used it as a deus ex machina in the last minute instead of properly integrating it with the storytelling and thoroughly exploring it.
Just finished playing and finally got to watch this video! My current theory is that maybe the OG Sephiroth and the OG Aerith are in a struggle to out collect the other in Black Materia and White Materia by the end of the currently unfolding timelines.
I have finally gotten my life back after pouring 100 plus hours into trying to complete this game. Truly amazing, I haven’t been this obsessed with a game in so long.
Just a personal thought on Cloud being the only one to see Aerith. The white materia, in addition to its original significance, is what is allowing Cloud to communicate with Aerith. As it ties into the planet and the Lifestream, it also allows the person who has it in their possession to interact with people in the Lifestream. This has a little bit of confirmation with the fact that we have some cutscenes where Aerith is talking to an unseen person. I think Nanaki/Red XIII can sense her when she had direct contact because he has some innate affinity with the planet.
I also think Zack has been carrying around the materia in his timelines as one has the materia fall next to him, and the other when he comments about it being clear (if I remember it correctly), which is why he can see the tear in some timelines.
What about Biggs? He was carried by the whispers to a different timeline. But for what? They never really got to that, he just kinda died in a branch timeline but they never explained why the whispers saved him from the main timeline. I think Cloud did save Aerith in the main timeline but he’s now in a different timeline, (they never showed the current stamp, I believe) one where she dies. I won’t be surprised when the reunion happens Cloud is sent back to the main timeline where Aerith is alive and well. Who knows, I’m excited to find out
Biggs only dies onscreen in the branch where Zack goes to him instead of the Shinra Building. For all we know in the version of events that played out with Zack going after Hojo, Biggs didn't actually need saving. Zack doesn't have any reason to believe he does other than he headed off the bomb the reactor, he has no foreknowledge that Shinra is on its way or anything like that. If Zack never shows up, they never have that conversation, so Biggs never kicks the bomb into the reactor, never alerts the Shinra troops to his location, and successfully escapes back to the slums. This likely isn't the last time we're going to see him, though he may now be on his own in a timeline where Zack paid the price of freedom in the Shinra building.
I think dead Aerith is gonna take over the body of the Aerith in Zacks time line in FF7 part 3. Also the in Rebirth they really laid in on Animals looking like Cloud I wonder if there is a connection to it
I finally beat the game and I'm still not 100% sure how I feel about the multi verse that's unfolding. On one end, I like the idea of being able to integrate Zack and other beloved characters who died to come back to the story once again but on the other hand I also feel like it takes away from the grandness and finality of a story and the decisions that are made by the characters. For example, in Dragonball, although I loved what it was, I hated the fact that characters constantly died and came back to life so easily using Dragonballs, it made characters dying in the story meaningless. I don't think FF7 is going down that path per se but seeing Aerith die like 4 times and come back in this game was so confusing and it felt like towards the end it eventually took away some of the emotion involved with her death. I'll have to wait and see how they handle things in part 3 but overall I absolutely loved this game and can honestly say it's one of the best I've ever played.
Odds are a version of Zack and Aerith remain playable next part... Even the finale. If they sre crazy about fan service, even a version of Sephiroth that didn't go mad.
@@federicamacchia1656 I played Crisis Core and I liked to see Sephiroth before he goes nuts, but he is the villain of FF VII, it doesn't make any sense to make him good again to say that Jenova, Xemnas or something else is the true enemy...that's my 2 cents at least.
Some of y’all are nitpicking a game that wasn’t even the ending to the entire story. It was meant to make you question things to set up for the next one. You’ll get your moments then
Im not even a diehard Aerith fan and part of me hopes she lives just to spite these fanboys who get a hard on by watching her get stabbed in the torso. It's so weird.
@@XT91But she's only temporarily alive in those other timelines. In other words, this isn't like an infinite multiverse. It is only one created by fighting against fate. One way you can look at it is Sephiroth wants to CREATE an infinite multiverse where nothing would matter except for him - who would be in control of it all. Aerith is struggling against that, and knows her time is limited. She doesn't even return to the LifeStream at the end. Her soul is stuck in that ancient city area to continue the fight against meteor. And in timelines where she is alive, she knows those are only temporary. So its very sad but very hopeful and beautiful - with lots of consequence.
@@writingref Nah I don't know how you've arrived at any of that with no third game present. Im still hoping for Aerith Prime to fight Sephiroth Prime on Earth Prime dual wielding 2 keyblades from KH.
@@XT91 umm ... did you watch the video we are commenting on? He lays it out. Sephiroth finds her in every timeline. Every branch timeline is disintegrating. No matter what Zack or Biggs do - their original fate catches up with them. When you pick a present for Aerith, no matter what you choose, you get a chocobo pin. Scrub your mind of Marvel multiverse for this.
What's interesting is it is written in a way that we as old fans have a sense for how Sephiroth knows so much and understanding the lifestream sequences, but new fans will ahve no clue.
honestly i loved the ending, i mean not her dying cause i love her but i thought it was very pretty and heartbreaking, the scene where she pushes cloud should have then cut to her dying i didn't get why the added all the extra in between but i liked that cloud was with her at the end, i think aerith is there in spirit and cloud aha a pink flashback as well as a green one so i think aerith will help him with his trauma in part 3 and try to comfort him and combat sephiroth's manipulation, wish there wasn't so many multiverses but i actually liked the way everything was presented x
I disagree with you on the thing with arieth helping him with his trauma that not her role that’s tifas because she put cloud mind back together arieth just protects them both in the livestream and think that is what going to happen part 3 because devs have said them selves that the livestream sequence with Tifa and cloud is there favourite moment form og so they probably adapt that scene but they might have arieth help guide tifa in the livestream to cloud
ermmmm pretty sure they already did that bit, just written different, cloud knocks tifa into the life stream, she is eaten by a weapon and somehow goes to the life steam, lucky the weapon just spits her out...... its a mess@@garethhayles6885
Great re telling of a story we all grew up loving. I wish they toned down the crazy whispers during the end battle and spent more time building up that battle. I was hoping to draw out the pre death scene, but it was straight to the point. I hope zack gets to meet in the main time line. I definitely chose the wrong gifts for Aerith during their date 😂. Gona run that back. Great video and breakdown❤
at the same time, it's not that different from the original game...so they changed everything but didn't change anything...I think I liked this ideia, although it was very messy in execution sometimes.
@@raulsouza5866 we need the third game to wrap up this whole story and get the full context (we hope). At this point I am expecting a literal army of Sephiroths to show up and fight an even bigger army of heroes from across all of FF7's branch of the greater Final Fantasy multiverse.
@@supremefankai5480or....Maybe not 😅.Maybe the've cooking Something totally different for Sephiroth.....pay attention to a lot of weird details hidden here and there when there's a "Sephiroth" involved,and you'll understand what i mean...
I like the idea that if Sephiroth's ambitions have grown, his tactics have probably grown too, so the build up to the final confrontation could be worlds different than the OG disc 3 north crater. IDK what it'll be exactly, but I'm hoping: intense, spectacular, mind-trippy, and with outstanding music
So, according to your analysis at 8:05, the frames with/without a pool of blood in Aerith's death could mean that there are 2 multiverses? One where Cloud saved Aerith in time and one where he was too late? Because the game only focuses on the second one.
I still don't understand how there would be different Stamps when you consider , timelines fractured into new paths long after his original conception.
Adding a multiverse just kills any investment in the story. Why should we care about the story, about who lives or dies, if we’re just using a multiverse and characters can just come back from another world. What’s the point of caring about saving Aerith if it’s all a lie and just happens in another universe? I’m so tired of these kind of stories…
Aerith's death has zero impact here, because minutes later, literally another Aerith just walks in...the multiverse thing pretty much killed any stakes in fiction.
FF does this since the first Final Fantasy. Timelines, Timeloops, their outcomes and the multiverse they created. Dissidia, Mobius and Stranger of Paradise are about how all the franchise go back to FF1 in concepts. For example, Chaos, Gilgamesh and Bahamut are everywhere. It's not something new and with Gilgamesh it's pretty obvious.
The Reunion.... The Worlds are going to be shoved back together. But Cloud, Aerith, and Sephiroth are deciding how it gets shoved back together. Or rather, the Strongest World survives to be the Destined one.
Think of it like the World of Final Fantasy 7 exists in the Unconscious Mind of the Souls of the Planet and the Worlds and Timelines are the Planet Thinking. So you have to convince the Planet to chose your World over anyone else's. To imagine your Paradise over another's.
I hope the timelines are being represented as if they are "all alive", but in reality like what happened to Biggs - these timelines tells us that they cannot escape their fates which is they are going to die no matter the timeline. FF7 is written by Sakaguchi due to his mother passing away, that's why the main theme of FF7 is about the paint of losing someone, grieving and acceptance.
could be, although it also could be possible that they highlight a different theme in the remake trilogy. just like it's possible that, in real life, devs who made the 1997 game may have a whole different perspective on their own story and the real life themes that resonate for them in 2024
Unlikely as in new zacks timeline, all of avalanche are dead bar biggs. Aerith is also dead in the "dream" timeline that gave cloud a new holy materia, as sephiroth came for her.
@@Panndiita I'm not exactly talking about music but the story's theme XD but if we're talking about the music, the world map theme (FF7's main theme) exactly describes FF7's story that's why Nobuo Uematsu is a genius. The music starts hopeful, turns scary, hopeless and then hopeful again.
@@aileene-ez9gx ohhh i know that feel, it makes it more special!!! ; _ ; yes! the world map melody, is the same as cloud's theme :,) damn man.... the feels ..
![7 Hardest Summons To Obtain [Commenter Edition]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9r5u3ff8Q18/mqdefault.jpg)
Sephiroth is trying to get every version of Stamp. Man is obsessed. As a Pokemon fan myself, can relate.
you could say that sephiroth is a..... stamp collector! XD
Pomeranian Stamp is best Stamp.
@@un_known5895Oh god no!!! Lmao!
If he collects 10, he gets a free Black Materia.
Gotta catch' em all Stampemon!
I felt a bit like Zack throughout the game. "What the hell is going on?" was said so many times playing this....
A very common thing for numora if your a kh fan your tired of it lol
@@mikeruiger7174 Its Nojima the lead scriptwriter, not Nomura to blame for these weird timeline shenanigans, Nomura wanted to make this trilogy it as close to a 1 to 1 remake but nojima and kitase wanted to make drastic changes. In the end I feel like if the devs are right, then all of this will make clear sense in part 3 as it is supposed to seamlessly link to advent children, so I don't think the end result will be too different.
Every time I felt like I had a grasp on what was going on, we had a Zack scene, which just cancelled all understanding and put me right back to, "What is going on?"
@zzk486 I feel you. I'm completely open to a few new twists in the tale, but this feels like a box of frogs has been opened and my brain is fried trying to piece it all together.
@@mercuriosity3133 I think making this all take place after and just continue the story would have been way smarter, they already have zack alive which no one asked for but still killed aerith which a lot of ppl didn’t want.
I want to point out a cheeky gameplay detail in the beginning of the Jenova fight - notice that Cloud is the only party member without a full limit break gauge, sort of implying the other members are in a heightened emotional state having witnessed Aerith's death yet Cloud is not in a heightened emotional state. Evidently, in retrospect the limit break thing is something that they wanted to do in the original game but never did.
Nice catch!
Cool
Explain. Is it cause cloud doesn’t think she’s dead? Or cause he can’t actually feel emotions ? Or cause he’s basically seph clone and is evil? Help!!
@@dawsonslone Alittle bit of everything lol. But mostly because he thinks she isn't dead at this point.
@@dawsonsloneCloud is in denial that Aerith is dead. He's also flipping through multiple timelines and can't figure out what's real. While she does die she also wakes up.
Sephiroth is trying to merge everyone into the Kingdom Hearts universe
Lol yep
If you are following latest Sony moves and plans with live service games and Square Enix devs saying multiple times that series is going to change you realise rather quickly FF series will merge not only with KH universe but also XV, XVI, Forspoken, or even reskined final fantasy XV named Reynatis and Verum rex, FF VII Rebirth Is certainly merge with Dissudia narration as mentioned by Tetsuya Nomura latest statement about story focused Dissidia, plus you got Fanitsu interview about FF14 2nd rebirth, due to similarities of same enviroments, map architecture (XV,16,Forspoken, Rebirth, Evercrisis) Glenn mobile character is also in Rebirth and if worlds merge this means mobile mechanics of Evercrisis will be as well part of Playstation 5 Dissidia multiplayer game
th-cam.com/video/09YEnndJGpg/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
He's getting revenge for not being brought back as a secret boss in the last one.
its jenova acutally
It's also potentially worth factoring in Zack and his other timeline variants.Specifically, Zack wraps Aerith's ribbon around his hand and for some of the timelines he either does or does not have it.
It's likely that just as with variants of Stamp the dog, the ribbon is a visual clue as to which "Zack" we are looking at.
I find It funny that they used the same thing in bravely Second. Ringabell became a timeline cop thing, só we knew the ringabell of the First game was the one with a ribbon on his arm, while the "other" ringabell was the one without the ribbon.
I think this is gonna come back around with Aerith too. The Aerith who goes on a date with Cloud gets a flower pin that she pins to her jacket. I think this is setting up to be a visual clue in Part 3 that will indicate a difference in what version of Aerith we're seeing.
If this was a chess match, Aerith sacrificed her Queen, herself, to give her other pieces better positions to save the King.
Naur she cant there has to be another way.
Queen's blood is the foreshadowing
Meh. Usually when you sacrifice your queen you do so as an offensive maneuver for an attack, Like Dubov did with Karjakin in 2020. For those who don't know that game, go watch it. It's truly amazing, especially Dubov's queen sacrifice. You are correct, though, that sometimes a queen sacrifice is needed in the endgame, but this is almost always done to force a draw and not a victory. So I don't think your analogy works here.
EDIT: If you edit your post, however, and change "to save the King" to "to finish the enemy," then it would work. 😀
@@self-righteousideologue9398 🤓 thanks for the advice
@@qull3840 oh my god you're so right.
My understanding is that Aerith is sort of an anchor for all the timelines, while both zack and cloud are in a way beings who are somewhat aware of the branching timelines. kinda like multiversal beings like what sephiroth is in the remake. I have a feeling Zack cloud and aerith might end up being the party for the final battle in part 3, after a merging of all timelines. Zack's importance to the story and his new quest to unite the timelines and save everyone might just end up with sephiroth's plan dead.
Boh,Aerith and Jenova,are.....the struggle Is between these two entities,and Cloud Is the "tool" bound to both of them,that both of them Need to have by their side to reach their goal...
Don't forget tifa *hint* *hint*
Schrödinger's Aerith.
I have a feeling that in part 3, something big will happen maybe in the middle of the game and Zack will become an official party member.
I played the final fight on dynamic and died on the final phase when Sephiroth had a sliver of health left, the lose screen was so confusing, like it had like 4-5 options and two of the options can be read the same way like the text was so similar, and I was so tired it was like 3am i thought the final part was going to be an hour not 4 hours. So I clicked the one that says “start at the beginning of this battle” or something like that and started me at phase one and i was so mad.
I just turned the difficulty to easy and ran it back, that fight had so many phases that it literally took me around an hour on dynamic, i was not doing all that again.
hey i did that too lmao. The first 2 options were basically saying the same thing i was so confused.
Same. Had Sephiroth down to literally 5% health when he suddenly caught both Cloud and Aerith in his Octaslash limit and it was game over. It was 4am and I was running on fumes, so I switched to easy as well. That fight definitely felt like it took me close to an hour on dynamic difficulty.
YES I thought I’d just misread it but it made no sense
definitely done this XD *start from checkpoint* and im back at my auto save from 3 hrs ago.....fortunately the game is pretty generous but the checkpoint option is borderline useless
happy it wasn't just me
IMO I think this approach could work, in theory.
Cloud tried to save Aerith, seems succeed but failed, stuck in denial, become most underdog version Cloud we have.
Lost his mom, lost his home.
Failed to protect Aerith and pretend to be because denial.
Then believe he failed to protect Tifa because his mind is hacked, fell to the deepest bottom.
The rise will be epic.
But jumping between Rebirth timeline, Zack timeline, the give-in end timeline, maybe-OG timeline, plus 3 different Sephiros boss fights, confused players way too much.
@@stevendouglas3781and that version also has the life stream flowing around her.
Aerith transcended her physical body, she is now truly Sephiroth's counterpart and the writers are referencing her ability to reach out from the lifestream and communicate with others, the same way Sephiroth has been appearing before Cloud all through out the remake project, they are probably discarding the Jenova clone Sephiroth in favor of this.
For now she chooses to interact with Cloud, probably because his status as a Sephiroth clone makes him the most convenient person to do so and perhaps also because he is the one who needs her help the most
I don't think theyre doing away with the jenova/sephiroth clone, as pretty much everywhere sephiroth appeared before cloud prior to the ending, it was through a remnant. That and you still refers to his reunion theory. I think sephiroths power within the lifestream comes more from the concept of "that which is not born of the lifestream, cannot return to it", much like the Gi. Sephiroth is just so contaminated by jenovas genetic material that he cannot truly die, the same as jenova herself, so like the OG he has the power to manipulate the jenova cells of others and aerith can do the same with the lifestream. So yeah, she truly is Sephiroth counterpart and always was, it's just better displayed now. But the Jenova reunion is still relevant.
@@golgariblightwarlockyeah it seems top basically be a thing that the lifestream of every universe is connected, and given that we know from the 97 OG that the real Sephiroth is likely tied to the lifestream he knows all of this, and it just took one break in the strand of fate for him to become aware of the multi-verse.
Similarly Aerith's communion with the lifestream at the temple seems to be what connected her finally. The only strange thing still is the way she has that random moment of clarity at the end of Remake and then it's gone come Rebirth.
So Aerith is Obi-Wan Kenobi
The next game will have a good portion dedicated to having Cloud out of commission after he falls into the life stream and gets major Mako poisoning. They'll have lot's of room to play with that, exploring timeline's traveling between them and exploring that idea to its fullest
I don't know why people are questioning Cloud talking to a dead Areith. He did this exact same thing in Advent Children
Ah I didn't remember this. Will have to rewatch this.
Advent Children was remake of "original" story? Not to mention it was fan service movie, not really relevant or good quality story.
@wiziek original story is Cloud and Zack is the same physical body but different soul. Just many stories told around, monkey magic or horus and seth. Single physical body with multiple soul.
@@wiziek no, it wasnt, neither are Remake and Rebirth for that matter, these practically take place AFTER Advent Children actually, at least Sephiroth is a version of himself after Advent Children
@@TheMantheon563 I don't think so, I always think Advent Children happens 2 years after they beat Sephiroth (both OG and FF7R) so if we want to predict how this FF7R ending, we could look at how FF7 Advent Children
Part 2 ended a little earlier than I thought it would (I thought we’d get to Northern Crater and Meteor summoning) and given the expanded story they are introducing Part 3 will need to be massive (Northern Crater, Wutai, return to Midgard, Rocket town, return to Junon, Weapon battles, Cloud missing, the ending etc) so I won’t be surprised if they do another Intergrade to delve into Vincent and or Cids backstories to help lighten the load
Given how many times the word “Reunion” was mentioned. I guess we can assume that’s the title of the third game, even though Crisis Core already took it?
I agree with ya. It has to be! Cloud literally says it in the end cutscene as well.
Re-Assemble? Re-United?
idk 😅
Re-Reunion
@@magicalsleeperKingdom Hearts type of title lol
@@Themacattack1209#JustNomuraThings
Thanks for giving such a good explanation of what transpired.
I understand why some might be disappointed with the ending, saying that it was too convoluted and not impactful, but personally, after I saw Cloud stopping the sword of Sephiroth and then saw Aerith pass away, I experienced something I hadn't experienced before. The sadness that tells me I should cry, but at the same time, I couldn't. The sense of emptiness. The moment I realized that Aerith was still there, just in a different way, and when Zack asked Cloud to save her, I was filled with hope. Just like when Cloud in the original said he would meet Aerith again. I haven't had anyone close pass away in my life, and I do not dare to compare it to a game, but now I have a slightly better understanding of how the hope of meeting someone again, even in the afterlife, or the hope of bringing someone back, can influence the perception of a dramatic event. If I was presented explicitly with Aerith being impaled, I would cry my eyes out, but that would be it. I would know that it is the end. But with the ambiguity, I was able to go through a different sort of grieving.
I think once Cloud snaps out of it (loose term) and his mind is cleared they are going to flashback to her death and we will see all of it play out. I see what they were trying to do but seeing as we all geared up to, let’s be honest, revisit our OG player emotional breakdowns, it was a risky moment to deviate from. There was so much to take in it was hard to connect with it in the way I imagine many expected.
Also Biggs is alive in the alternate timeline and he is then shot dead. The same happened with Wedge. Similarly, it made me think of the Final Destination films 😆, and if you are meant to die it won’t skip you, it will catch up along the line. This was a key factor that I think was a little lost in all there was to take in.
For me, Barrett and Dyne made me far more emotional than the ending and I am so pleased as I wanted that to be delivered well. Also Chapter 13 with individual trials (Barret 😢) and the chapter in general! Temple of Ancients was a masterpiece!
I think how the next game plays out will hopefully change the ending experience of Rebirth on a replay once the compilation of games is done. 🤞
I had a similar experience. In a way, I think that simply showing Aerith die and have that scene be recreated almost 1 for 1 would be tear-inducing, but the thing that made Aerith's death so impactful is not just because of the depiction of the scene, its the reality of the event and the long term implications that stayed with people throughout the game and elsewhere. I think, despite my reservations, they did manage to take me - someone who expected either cloud to save her, or for her to die and that to be it - and subvert my expectations. I was shocked, I was angry, sad, confused, and ultimately I grieved all over again. I kind of don't want her to be as prominent as Zack was in Rebirth, outside of pivotal moments where she must be there. I would also be okay if its revealed that Cloud can't actually see Aerith, or that he claims he can and it causes grief/strife within the party who are very much upset at him acting like shes alive when they saw her die, etc. There's a lot of ways it could go, but I do think showing her every 5 seconds would be the one thing they should not do.
Good catch with fate catching up to people. I'm not sure how the idea that fate is somewhat inescapable plays into the story they are trying to tell, since Rebirth was set up as like 'we defeated the arbiters of fate, now anything can happen!' that seems a bit contradictory, but it does emphasize the fact that after this is all over... Aerith will probably still be ultimately and finally dead and part of the lifestream again.@@lucyoliver7004
The ending was too all over the place for me. Too much jumping from scene to scene with different characters and without much explanation, it felt messy like they were short on time and trying to squeeze stuff in. And that plus the lack of dialogue from other characters during Aerith's death scene (such as Yuffie crying), really took the emotion out of that scene especially with all the scene jumping I kept wondering whether she was actually dead or not. Just feels very convoluted imo
i think the scene jumps were on purpose. It was moment where a new reality was made we don't see entirely. One where he actually did save Aerith and the one we're in where she actually died. But it sucks we don't get to see Cloud move her to the water or even have his outburst at Sephiroth
I agree. I feel like they should have just made a massive game instead of 3 games and released everything at the same time. Might not have been possible but. That's what I wish would have happened.
I agree i absolutely loved the majority of the game but really hated the ending
@@GLUFSAREN
They started with PS4 technology, and this wouldn't have been possible back then.
Look what Larian has done with Baldur's Gate 3. It's a huge game, but not as event filled as FF7R.
@@makisbizarreadventure4669 That's exactly my issue with it. I know it was on purpose and that doesn't make it less messy or contrived. I'm just not a fan of multiple timeline stories I guess as it's very overdone at this point and feels like Rebirth went full Kingdom Hearts. To be honest it baffles me how XVI gets the hate of 'not feeling like FF' when Rebirth feels like the least FF game out of all the mainlines in my opinion
When I first saw cloud block the killing blow… both 14 year old me and 42 year old me left for joy. Then we were (and still are) shrouded in total confusion. What the hell happened? If he saved her… why are the other members so sad? What timeline did he end up in after the big fight? Are we back in the OG timeline? If so… why is the tiny bronco repaired? I do not understand!!
I yelled "WAIT, SHE DOSEN'T DIE!!!" and then got my hopes shattered in about 7 seconds when there was blood.
Man I was shocked then I was sad again like back in 97
TLDR: Cloud has a shrodingers Aerith
Fr tho, my immediate thought when cloud was emotionless and talking to Aerith while the gang was super sad and couldn’t see her, I thought “oh god Jenova is glitching him to still see and talk to Aerith so he can’t develop like he needs to.” I was waiting for her to do a creepy sephiroth smile during the final cutscene, with like a feather or something.
it would def be interesting if they make it so "if you think aerith is gone, then shes gone. but if you think shes still waiting, then she will be there waiting for Cloud" but i wonder how they would make it work
Or Areith wants Cloud to beleive she is still alive because she does not want Cloud - to paraphrase Sepheroth from an earilier scene - 'Fill that hollow heart with rage'. Sepheroth wants Cloud to foster his hate and pain. As he also says to Cloud the first time we see him in Remake, 'Good Cloud. Hold on to that anger'
You would be surprised how many people think that she was Jenova lol. When literally Red’s sensing her contradicts that. That Red scene was specifically made for intention of telling people who thought that is “No she’s the real Aerith”
@@tdspkhype3042 Jenova can't manipulate Red?
@@bossmanham Why would Jenova manipulate Red here of all places just to check on Tifa? It doesn’t make sense for Jenova to appear in that scene. They wouldn’t have done Nanaki sensing Aerith to begin with
I kind of feel like Cloud is now currently occupying two timelines at once, hence why he can see both the tear and converse with Aerith. To me, it comes across as not just his mind being fractured, but his very existence!
But if he's simultaneously experiencing a timeline in which he saved Aerith, why would she stay behind when the party leaves on the Tiny Bronco? Why would she be talking about her prayers being able to stop Meteor?
@@coreydemoss4781 Because she has to stay in the capital and pray if she truly wants to stop the meteor.
This was my theory too. Kind of like his consciousness is straddling the two timelines
For the many people who don't own a PS5, watching videos like this is the only way to stop unwanted spoilers. I haven't played the game yet, but I felt the need to know what happens on my own terms before seeing it spread across the internet.
I mean…why wouldn’t you just watch one of the many all cutscenes videos?
@DrawinandSh1t well I did originally veiw the aerith scene that way but I didn't feel the need to comment on the matter until I watched this video.
@@DrawinandSh1t I did, and find I"m still enjoying the heck out of the game even knowing those spoilers. but the full cutscene video I saw was 13 hours long, and I can definitely see how the much shorter breakdown in this video might be kinder on many peoples' schedules!
Totally get you. At least you’re actively choosing to seek it out yourself, rather than sadly coming across it by chance and leaving the choice out of your hands.
Someone in my neighborhood is making big bucks doing a remote gameplay of ff7. You just need a ps5 controller and screen synced to his ps5.
Thanks for this. Wonderful explanation that doesn't go too crazy with shoestring theories. Cloud's mental state will be a huge focus in the next game, with Tifa, and likely Aerith helping him rebuild himself the way he did in the OG.
Hopefully because to me it appears that there are no stakes anymore, everyone is alive in a sense and they even toned down specific scenes like when Berret loses his arm. I love the spectacle that FF7 remake is, but removing all stakes with some multiverse nonsense will not sit very well with me for part 3.
I sure hope so. Cloud went from a likable and relatable in the OG to unstable and unlikable in the now. Especially in the last scene
I just finished watching a 16hr cutscene video(took me 3 days to watch it all) and it was such a roller-coaster of emotions. I am loving how they did this remake and glad they decided to make it 3 parts.
I was confused with the ending a little thinking it was only 2 timelines, but seeing as it was 3 that makes a lot more sense now. I am so invested in how this whole story is going to end in part 3 and I really hope Zack shows up more.
I had to immediately go deep clean my grill for 2 hours after because I could not handle seeing Aerith die again lol.
I saw 5 stamps total so at least 5 timelines were shown, you had the stamp from the end of remake /beginning of rebirth, the stamp from the gift stands with cloud and aerith, the pug stamp with Biggs, the main timeline stamp and the stamp that Jonny is holding as he walks past the church
Hahaha I watched a cutscene vid too, also took 3 days
I'm not surprised you'd have a better opinion of the game when you only watched cutscenes compared to if you played through all the padded side content in the game lmfao.
Also Zack has a whole playable moveset introduced at the very end of the game so he is for sure going to play a large part into the next game.
@@Zephhi each to their own but I’ve done all the side missions and world intel now at 112 hrs and personally enjoyed all of it. You could always just, you know, not do the side stuff lol
That’s so lame. Play the damn game.
I like how no matter what universe or timeline we’re in, the Shinra marketing team collectively can’t decide what breed of dog Stamp should be
There are only as many timelines as there are breeds of dogs.
@@Broll00 Oh shit I never thought of this, good logic!
Aerith's role is definitely going to help Cloud and Tifa when it comes to his fractured mind. My theory is Sephiroth is going to try to stop that event from happening, but Aerith would intervene
Agreed he sees Tifa as a major threat to his plans which is why he kept trying to gaslight Cloud about what happened in Nibelheim
@@thedarkderp2520only option now is to say he was a Sephiroth clone created by Hojo
That's the problem; Remake was all about preventing the same things that happened in the OG, and now its all about making sure things happen like they happened in the OG?
@@thedarkderp2520I’m confused about something, why does Sephiroth save Tifa in that one scene when she’s inside that mako weapon (unless I’m getting the context wrong) if right before that he had Cloud attack her and make her fall in the mako?
@@The3rownie I'm not sure myself but maybe he wanted her to drown so she'd suffer sephiroth is pretty cruel so that's my guess
I think that it was a good idea. We all know that Aerith was going to die there and instead of trying to recreate the same exact feeling they knew it would be impossible. We all know she was going to be killed. When we first saw her murder , "that" was the twist at the time in 1997. They're trying to tell a new story and our "twist" will probably come in part 3. Why do we need to see her die over and over again expecting a certain emotional response when the entire world knew she dies at the capital. Lets face it, the game is for returning fans. We wished for her to survive for years and we get a chance this time and its not bad. Same with Zack. Its ok to give us something more rather then the same "exact" story. Who knows, they could kill Cloud next story and then we'll be in pain for another 20 years
It's just that they didn't need a multiverse story to do it.
Now the story lost a lot of impact becuase of.
It doesn't enrich it, it's shifts the story from personal problems and saving the world to saving a multiverse and death doesn't mean anything.
@@StrikerJaken If you think about it. They didnt change the story, Aerith did die, its just that this is more of a "continuation" of the FFVII storyline in which we thought that everything ended in the FFVII 1997 release, but there was more to it. We sat with just that first part for several years and it turns out that Sephiroth wasn't completely defeated. So I take it as we're finally seeing what he had in store. After you defeated him at the end of the original he just kind of exploded into red/black light or whatever. so technical you could say it wasnt over.
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19:32 mark
@@ChaosElementThe story ended. Holy came, Jenova was gone. Even Advent Children put it to rest and the furthest we went with that timeline had Hojo of all things corrupt the Lifestream. No Sephiroth to be found.
They added things, for more twists and to have an ending where "everyone" will be happy.
However, it being a closed system, actually had stakes for specific character deaths. Now it does not.
Aerith was gone. Her death didn't have her jump out and be a mastermind behind the scenes. If any, she was fighting in the lifestream, most likely with Zack by her side.
However, that doesn't mean we have to go into multiverse BS. They can tell the same story without that. It wouldn't change a beat.
The idea is good, but I think the execution is poor.
While I agree that Aerith's death being exactly like in 1997 wouldn't have had as much of an emotional impact now, what they did in Rebirth killed any emotion with her death, at least for me. The constant switching through timelines with multiple Aerith's, the seemingly rushed Forgotten City, the divergence of Cloud "saving" Aerith just to show another reality in which he didn't (and we didn't even really get to see Sephiroth succeed) and then following THAT reality where you can play as Aerith once more just killed any emotional weight her death should have had.
It’s kinda strange they didn’t show the scene with cloud letting Aerith sink into the water. Otherwise the story somehow feels completely different but the net result kinda ends up being the same as the game focuses on the “main” timeline
I agree completely. It's such a bizarre and glaring omission that I'm not convinced that they won't show it in the next game, along with Cloud's speech about how Aerith will never laugh or cry again. In fact, I think that's hinted at since when Aerith 4.0 shows up to fight Sephiroth and she mentions that she heard what Cloud said, and thanked him. But in this game we don't really see him say much after she dies, he just says "I got this." Either way though, the time to show all of that stuff would have been in THIS game, not years later when the next one comes out. Put simply, this was the time when they should have committed but they didn't.
The Aerith and zack from the end of AC in the church will turn out to be alt timeline versions instead of ghosts watching over cloud
Cope more.
@@Papyrus6769-wp1smso aggressive? For what? lol
@@J-Dawg81 it's wild right? the people who don't just hate Rebirth, but really really want to make you as miserable as possible because they're unhappy
I dont think so, because theyre the originals that went back to the og lifestream.
@@IianaDRK i feel this with zack but my question regarding aerith is that essentially all aeriths would be the same since they share memories right? The only thing an aerith from another timeline would be missing is the main aerith’s memories but it seems like they all know whats going on.
It's basically the same thing as remake.The vast majority of game is incredible.Even far-exceeding remake, and then the ending is like wow okay. It doesn't really ruin anything , but it just creates a lot of questions for the next game that will probably have yet another bonker's ending, despite most of the game being a really great homage to the original.
Getting the 99% of these games is worth whatever goofy shit they want to do with the end of them.
My feeling, exactly. The ending left me quite annoyed, and then I remembered all the fun I had during those 100 hours.
I have agree. Even tho I hate the ending to both games with a passion, the first 13 chapters were great.
W/E FF7 OG is my canon and nobody can tell me otherwise lol
My exact feeling. I was so frustrated with the ending but the 101 hours I put into it was tons of fun. I would only change the ending 9 out of 10 game for me.
@@stevendouglas3781 I’m glad you liked the ending. But to your point 90% of the game is a rehash of events from almost 30 years ago. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. Aerith ended up dying anyways. They shouldn’t have spoiled the moment with multiverse KH shenanigans
@@stevendouglas3781 I’m pretty sure she’s dead. At least in the main timeline. What I got from the ending was aerith helped cloud fight Sephiroth from the lifestream only to return after the fight. Everyone reacts as if aerith is gone except cloud due to his memories being all messed up. Also his perception of what’s real and what’s not is fucked as well, that’s why he keeps seeing her while the others do not. It was interesting reading your take on things, and I do agree that for the most part the story beats and characterization were done far better in the remakes than the original. Ofc they were very limited in tech back then it’s amazing they put together an incredible story.
We can agree to disagree about the ending being terrible. Like I said, I’m happy a whole other generation can enjoy FF7 like I did back in the day, albeit in a different way.
This was the best ending explanation out there. Cheers for such a good video!
I really appreciate that instead of simply reacting to the ending of Rebirth, that ya'll made an effort to understand what was going on. FF7 Remake was my first FF game ever and I loved it and Rebirth. Keep up the good work!
I hope in the 3rd game they actually defy fate cuz after all this convoluted multiverse bullshit we get the same result, which is Aerith dying. Why make the story more convoluted just to have the same result?
I suppose that's why they established the multiverses. The possibility that Aerith gets revived is high. IF Aerith really still lives in one of those timelines and they merge with the main timeline she might be able to come back.
In zacks time line he saves aerith and cloud but its implied everyone else is dead so it is possible, and I kinda think cloud in zacks timeline is the healthy one without septheroths influence, but yeah I do agree with out will be pissed if it turns out to be a round about way of just telling the same story now after all the wisper crap
They want their cake and eat it too...
Look she dies, but there she doesn't, so she get's her happy ending... which she already did. Sephiroth was defeated and she was reunited with Zack in the Lifestream. We saw it in AC. It's just annoying twists for twists sake
This was a big help. I feel the multiple timelines makes the story unnecessarily convoluted, but this video helped make a little more sense of it at least.
Aerith isn't a ghost or Astral projection. She's a bleed from a parallel timeline/universe where Cloud saved her. By having her stay in City of the Ancients, the writers have options for 3 that won't break development. This is clear from the 'timeline changed rainbow', the fact no-one else can see her, Red XIII's detection of her and her dress blowing in the wind. She is a physical manifestation, so it will be interesting to see where SE go with that. Also the quote at the end specifically hints that they will be together again, when cross referenced with Aerith's song.
What quote?
@@NordicWiseguy The discussion before boarding Tiny Bronco where Cloud asks "will you be fine getting back?" and Aerith basically saying "yes" - referring to "getting back" to the world she belongs in, because she is stuck in this broken split timeline that was created when Cloud deflected Sephiroth.
As this commenter said, it's not a ghost or projection, Aerith is literally alive, but basically stuck in the lifestream behind a kind of one sided glass we could call "another world".
@@nickrobi9178 i see it now too after carefully studying the end scene. We literally see Aerith both dying and surviving. Cloud actually managed to save Aerith. Blocking Sephiroth's masamune created a new parallel world where Aerith is alive but other party members can't see it because they are in world 1 wheres Cloud and Aerith are both between these two worlds. That's why only Cloud can see the rift in the sky and others don't.
Also before the fight against Sephiroth Aerith said that "I saw what you did back there Cloud. Thank you."
Aerith literally thanked Cloud for saving her.
World 1 Aerith is dead but now we have two Aeriths alive. One in Terrier timeline with Zack (she is in coma) and now the other Aerith is alive in this new world that Cloud's actions created.
@@NordicWiseguy "I see it now" Me too. On some other videos, we were debating that Aerith was existing in another timeline, what we called the "Deflection" timeline, so that she could exist there while she died in the Prime timeline. Mind you, that didn't entirely make sense. But, it was the best explanation we could come up with. The idea that she is stuck between timelines by being "dead" in one and "alive" in the parallel one in such a way that she can still communicate with Cloud and help him out that way is the best way to explain what happened. Especially when you take into consideration that Sephiroth said "I underestimated you." Aerith is not supposed to have that much of a physical presence from the Lifestream (as far as I know). But, she was able to do it once more by going through the rainbow portal with the help of the white Whisperers.
Thats so freaking awfull and cringe, holy shit
Fingers crossed that we get another intermission starring Vincent this time!
Finished it today, finally. I really don't know how to feel about this ending, needs some time to marinade. I ended up having more questions than I did at the end of Remake. 😅
Can’t believe you put 3 very clear spoiler warnings in the video on top of clearly stating that the video was about the ending of rebirth which in itself should tell you it’s a spoiler and yet people are still whinging in the comments. I loved the game … up until the ending, the ending I dislike a lot it ruined a pivotal moment in the game and I’m having to watch these types of videos to even try make sense of wtf happened.
The huge boss fights also really messed with it too. If it was just the Jenova fight, I think it could have worked, especially with how you had everyone’s limit gages maxed (with the exception of Cloud’s) with their feelings of grief and anger to start it off. But…it didn’t end there.
I always go to your account because you have one of the best analysis all the time. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for explaining this, I was so confused as to what was going on
Thanks for the detailed spoilers. I haven’t played the game yet but I want to know how it turns out 😊👍
After finally completing the game yesterday I was finally able to watch this video! Great work as always.
It was more interesting when you explained it. I watched the movie version, and while im okay with the story, i didn't like how aerith's death was treated. There's just too many scene transitions, and aerith got neglected. Instead of 😭 i was more 🤔 the entire ending.
Crazy how superior the 27 years old sequence is to the mess they made here.
i felt the same, the death of the 1st Cait sith felt sadder xd
its not a mess. there was no way theyd match the original no matter how hard they tried@Jose-se9pu
While I have only just watched it to the end and I'm still trying to process everything, I have to say that my initial thoughts are in agreement with you. Both Aerith and Cait Sith's scenes lost a bit of impact in this game, but I suppose that was to be expected, since I was already braced for what was to come.
But I did think that the team's personal trials in the Temple of the Ancients were very heart-wrenching. And also, I was surprisingly upset over Roche!
Exactly. You don't feel sad because you're too busy wondering what's actually happening.
I just want to understand why Zack surviving seems to be a point made by the SE. I think in the last game we will be in for a surprise of an Aerith variant will return in the end.
having just finished this game, i'm only certain of one thing : my brain is wrecked, now
Cant wait for the PC version 😢
same
Same.. but also played it on my PS5
Can't wait for the discounted quadrilogy pack.
Gonna be a year at least i think. FF 16 isnt even on PC yet and that came out like 8 months ago
Could it be that Cloud’s mind has so completely deteriorated that he simply hallucinates Aerith still being alive. The game doesn’t show us the burial scene in the lake, so I have a feeling Cloud’s mind is just actively blocking out and rejecting any evidence that she is gone.
I think that's too simple for all the multiverse stuff we saw though.
Red XIII senses her at the end…
@@venomactual73 Correct. He sensed her when she touched him.
@@GLUFSAREN Yeah Aerith was there as a spirit. Nanaki sensed her but only Cloud could see her.
I think you're completely right. Cloud clearly doesn't want to realize Aerith is dead at this point. He talks to her like she's still around and made up a narrative in his mind where she just left the groupe and went back to her prayer. He rewrote events unconsciously just like we saw him do with the grunt turning into Zack in Nibelheim's river.
The fact Nanaki felt her presence in the cutscene at the end is irrelevant since "multiversal Aerith" might really be here with them, playing along with Cloud's delusion to achieve victory over Sephiroth in the long run.
The point is everybody seemed totally broken on the lake's shore except for Cloud who continued as if everything was normal. Tifa looked completely shaken by his cold attitude when he said "yup, let's go" right after Aerith's burial.
On the fields afterwards, Cloud is still acting very strange. He's light-hearted and hopeful while everybody's mourning and he doesn't seem to understand what's happening around at all.
The thing is, Cloud is too far gone, Jenova's cells have to much of a grip on him right now and nobody could reach him. The whole game showed us his fall into hell as his mental state deteriorated and now he might be at his lowest.
But you see, that's why I can't help but be a little bit upset. Things are needlessly convoluted when they should be simple and impactful and now people are not understanding the same things. 😮💨
Well... It could have just been Cloud imagining himself stopping Sephiroth's blade, due to his broken mind.
Most likely. Marlene told to Zack that Cloud didn't make it in time.
I hope both Zack and Cloud 2 can save Aerith 2 in part 3. Zack atleast knows that Sephiroth is after her and that he needs Cloud's help if he wants to stop Sephiroth.
@@AkihikoLockhartStrife Aerith was there to help Cloud. It was her spirit. Even Sephiroth said to Aerith "i must admit i underestimated you" and when Aerith asked Sephiroth "how can you want this?" Sephiroth replied to her "Begone you have played your part."
Also Aerith saved Zack just moments before Cloud faced Sephiroth. She was there.
Also in the ending scene Nanaki sensed Aerith's spirit. Somehow only Cloud can see her spirit just like only Cloud can see the rift in the sky.
@@AkihikoLockhartStrife If she wouldn't have been there Sephiroth wouldn't have tried to attack her.
Also she can damage Sephiroth and her healing wind can heal Cloud. She was there alright.
@@AkihikoLockhartStrife i don't. Nanaki sensed Aerith's spirit. This proves she was there. Also she was guiding Zack to help Cloud and even healed him when he fought Sephiroth Reborn.
@@AkihikoLockhartStrife Nomura said there are three worlds in Rebirth.
Devs never said anything about only one timeline. There are multiple timelines. According to Sephiroth everytime a fate gets altered a new timeline gets created.
Just leaving the comment here. Seriously, I'm still taking care of all the Corel objectives.
multiverse dude, multiverse
@lokibau Cloud needs to call Doctor Strange, he'll sort out old Sephy.
Forget Doctor Strange, He should call Rick Sanchez and his grandson Morty
Good luck!
I don't necessarily hate the multiverse plot, but that scene change for Aerith's death was terrible imo. I was about to give the game a 10, but that bumped it down to a 9 and it would have been completely avoidable too imo. They could have just shown the scene playing out like normally, and then afterwards have Cloud act like she was still alive, hinting at the new timeline. Everything would have essentially be the same plot-wise but we would have gotten the full emotional impact of Aerith's death. Instead we get this mish mash of action, drama and timeline shenanigans. The scene doesn't even have time to breath, killing every bit of emotional weight it could have had.
It's honestly baffling to me how it made it into the game in such a way, cause this, to me, is the most important scene in the entire story.
Idk im willing to stick with them for this, I feel as if it was paced like that to make the player feel there with Cloud in his confusion and denial.
It's a play on the expectations and suspense built up in all the players who know what's *supposed* to happen
I totally agree!!! I feel bad for new fans who are not going to fully experience the emotional impact of her death.
I mean Aeriths death is basically meaningless now. Every time an Aerith dies shes just gonna rejoin with Aerith Prime and become stronger until shes The One. shrug
we’ve seen this with the platefall in part 1, they don’t know how to make slow, meaningful scenes at all.
i mean even if they were to show the full death scene like in the OG first and only afterwards show her interacting with cloud and being seemingly alive it still wouldn't have the same emotional impact because of the whole timeline stuff... it's like yeah she might die in one timeline but she's alive in another timeline so she's not really gone. it's pretty clear that she's not completely gone and that she will appear in part 3 so her "death" scene was never gonna have the same impact with this timeline stuff, even if they were to recreate it 1:1.
I think everytime Zack or Cloud defy fate, *since they're the ones who started this whole thing in the first place by combo killing Sephiroth* they inadvertently create another timeline.
Now i think Clouds current state, is the start of his mental snap that Tifa will have to pull him out of. Like it's too much information to process, on top of his own struggle to come to terms with the eventual full reveal of who he actually is.
Fantastic breakdown and analysis of the game. Jolly good 👍🏻
One thing they need to explain in the third game is why aerith, marlene and sephiroth have these interdimensional powers all of a sudden. Why and how does sephiroth become aware of the events of the original game? Etc
I thought he saved her in one timeline, and not in the main time line and now cloud is straddling several time lines hence the multiverse tear in the sky only he can see. So its both she died and didn't and she will return with Zack when all the time lines merge in the 'home coming' Reunion of timelines.
FF7 Reunion would be a great name for a rock band.
@user-ky8nd2rz4f are you talking about Aerith who literally dated zack ? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 the main reason she likes cloud is because his personality has been merged with Zacks...... You sure you played the game 🤔🤔
I have a theory that the scenes at the lake and when they are fixing the Tiny Bronco are from the OG timeline. That is why Cloud still has the Black Materia. Aerith is still alive.
Call me a hardcore fanboy, I loved the ending, and I loved the execution of it. This is coming from someone who’s played the OG, loves advent children, played the og crisis core, and dirge of Cerberus. Maybe Kingdom Hearts conditioned me for the bonkers storytelling that’s playing out, but whether you like the ending or hate it, you can’t deny that FF7 Rebirth is a Phenomenal game! I’m on board to see this new journey through to the end 💪🏼
Ur one of the enjoyers like I am
Wasn't the biggest fan of the last act but I overall enjoyed the entire game. I just wish Cloud would stop being such a dick and let Tifa help him. I want to see them end up together; there are too many beats and moments in this game to not have that happen
"you can’t deny that FF7 Rebirth is a Phenomenal game!"
I outright deny it. The entire FF7 Remake series has been a completely pointless, boring, bloated mess and it's an absolute insult to the original game.
@@funkybuddhaInit lmfao calling it an insult is a stretch
Aside from the convoluted timeline stuff everything else in the game respects the ever living hell out of the original. To call it pointless and an insult is just willful ignorance.
Nah it sucks, yall are just fan boys...."getting the working white materia from a different timeline" smh and people rip on FF8 lmao
aerith - was able to see the future before and can now communicate through lifestream (probably even with her counterparts across dimentions) and possibly bid white whispers to manipulate people in timelines, shes busy playing dimentional whisper chess with sephiroth utilizing the knowledge she had when she was able to see the future.
zack - casually being thrown around the timelines by aerith and sephi, seems to be one of the pieces aerith needs to succeed witk whatever shes planning
cloud - schizo because of sephi cells, i think he is able to see and experience memories that others with sephi cells have, including his own counterparts across the different worlds, the connection seems especially strong with the clouds that's worlds are merging into his..which may be why he was seeing both the aerith that died and the one that lived at the same time, Could also be the reason why he had zacks memories up until the point when zacks body resisted his own share of the sephi cells.. that same link of course also connects to sephi himself, hense whenever he goes schizo mode he knows how to use his fighting style..whenever he has his schizo moments he is basically in a mind jumble of 3 people.. not to mention that jenova probably trying to manipulate him like she is with sephi.. tho idk what really happens once a world merges into another, maybe the world where aerith lived got overwritten with the one where she dies and aerith is just full on communicating with him through the life stream.
The way I see it is that the original game's story is kind of ambigous in a lot of ways, and Rebirth follows in these footsteps. We are left with a lot of questions, and I can understand why people are upset at the convoluted way they told the final chapter. I feel this is the closest to "having your cake and eating it too" in terms of Aerith surviving or not. Cloud's current state of mind reflects the original mind break he had with Zack's death and honestly makes him a more consistent character, and I am excited to see him work it out with Tifa (and another Aerith?) in the next game.
I thought the multiple timelines were told well enough, but it did require the player to pay close attention. It does make the impact of certain scenes lessen, but I feel like you can't recreate those feelings from a game with 27 years of discussion behind it. I believe the remake series is a horrible way to experience FF7, but as a companion to those who are fans? I dunno, I dig it and am super invested on how it plays out. They set up a lot here, I just hope they don't fumble it.
To me this is the best case scenario. These games don't invalidate the original, and are interesting in their own way.
Who is ready to start part 3 with an unusally happy Cloud snowboarding, with the rest of the party depressed? I know I am
You got me with happy Cloud on the snowboard ahahahaha
This is the best take I’ve read in these comments
I agree with you I don't know that I would enjoy it as much if I didn't know and love the original so much, at the end I was left confused as fuck I was like ok so Aerith is...kind of dead? Like I feel like her death had no impact this time, I was more sad over the scene with Dyne dying than I was with Aerith because for 1 I expected it and for 2 Cloud kept talking to her and so it was like she isn't gone. I have mixed feelings on the ending, still can't wait for part 3 especially since we didn't get to play as my main man Vincent!!
The ending was epic, but confusing. I knew I was in 2 timelines but you're enjoying it so much and just enjoying how epic it all is, you don't see all these details. What a masterpiece. It's hard to believe they improved upon the original, but boy. Absolutely incredible. Im so glad spirit Aerith will have a role and I'm interested to see what implications it will have.
Thanks for this rundown! This was super clear and helpful. I've been a huge fan since '97, and I've really enjoyed the Remake and Rebirth story so far. (Total respect to those who don't btw! This is all just my opinion.) I'm really interested in what they're doing thematically with multi "timelines" (or streams of memory, or alternate tellings/narratives, or strands of the lifestream - I feel like "timelines" might be a limiting way to describe it but don't know a better one yet!). Is this fundamentally a story about being powerless and stuck in a cycle, *or* about having agency and the potential to change yours' and others' fate? Is it about the costs of defying fate, and how much you're willing to sacrifice? Is it perhaps about reframing and recontextualizing the same story - so that the same core events occur but now they mean something different? Perhaps - now you can forgive yourself for the places you failed, or learn from the paths you didn't take, or take pride in the good fight you fought *even if the outcome isn't what you hoped for*? Is it about reclaiming the story for yourself, rather than having others (manipulative villains, perhaps) tell you who you are, how your story ends, and what it means?
I like that we don't quite know what will happen. I like that Aerith's character feels more complex and fleshed out in Rebirth - she's so much more than a one-note martyr or tragic love etc etc. She has humor, she is so excited and in awe to explore the world, she cares so much about her friends (especially Tifa- I LOVE their friendship!). She has questions and doubts, she struggles with her burden of choice, she has a dynamic path of coming into her power. I will understand and still like the story if in the end, she's truly gone in the main timeline. But selflishly, I also appreciate the multiverse concept and the distant possibility - even if only in player's imagination rather than onscreen - that is at least one world where she gets to survive and go on with life and be happy. I like to believe the Planet and fate doesn't require her to sacrifice her life, but it is a choice she can make - and if she does make that choice (as in Rebirth main timeline) then it's even more meaningful and brave because it *was* a choice.
I could go on. I'm looking forward to the next game, but in the years til then I'm looking forward to savoring Rebirth in all its glory. To digging into the symbolism, coming up with theories, etc. What a time to be alive :)
Every single one of those "what if's" you pondered, are entirely inferior to the original plot of the game.
What a total bummer. It's just another one of those multiple timeline stories now, instead of ONE GREAT story.
@@Jimmymatthewb awwww that's adorable! hope you feel better soon!! 😙
enjoy being let down as we always are with all namura led projects, i like how you said you respect other people's opinions then like poor baby when someone voices one.... just lip service, this kinda shallow story perfect for ya, enjoy.... hows sales doing from part 1? less..... thought so@@epicglitter7218
I agree with max, that this sephiroth somehow is from the og game, and know his original plan wont work, so he is trying to merge the worlds so that he can achieve it in a diferent way
Took me 40 hours to beat the game and thats me skipping most of the side missions. It was amazing the music bring back so many good memories especially Crisis Core music.
But what did you think of the story is the real question.
im not the OP, but I did the same thing. I just did the story and card games (roughly 45 hours) and I think the story was absolutely amazing, just a really poorly handled ending @@crossroads8370
@@crossroads8370 Chase men in black robes in until the end of the game were you get a little bit of story fighting the final boss.
40? It took me 17 hrs to finish (in-game hours not PlayStation hours)
@@soku330 youre either lying or you skipped cutscenes.
it has over 13 hours if cutscenes alone. you are saying you beat the entire game in 4 hours? on a first playthrough... right
I'm not sure if this dialogue was skippable if you beat Jenova too fast but during the first phase when Cloud is sending the party members away, he mentions something about not having to worry because he's done this before
He doesn't send them away, Jenova is banishing them with one of her attacks. That line triggers automatically when it's down to just Cloud.
I thought that was because he has to fight Jenova in the previous game also?
Well as it’s going to be a year before this comes out on PC I guess I can’t avoid the ending so here goes.
I love FF7 but I don’t love it quite enough to pay 300 to 400 quid for a PS5 I already did that for a ps4 that I ended up giving to my bro after he lost everything when his wife cheated on him I really wish Sony would stop the time exclusive nonsense they keep pulling.
they will when they close down from terrible sales and bad management
As someone coming into ff7 without playing the original i do enjoy the gameplay and story alot
I'd say spoilers, but you're here already, so no point lol. Anyway, here's my 2 cents to all of this chaos. (just a theory)
At the end of Remake (Part one) The Aerith we knew left as soon as they left midgar. Starting in rebirth, Aerith didn't actually lose her knowledge of the future to the whispers, her "spirit" went into hiding in another world's version of her taking those memories with her leaving us with a default Aerith personality like in the OG game. The portal she opened at the highway in part one cost her the use of holy, which is why the orb went clear in rebirth because that was the cost of changing fate, when she did this, white whispers were born. The Sephiroth we see in Rebirth that shows up time and again is, still, Jenova.
HOWEVER, Sephiroth's "spirit" himself is in this nexus of worlds (Sephiroth Reborn) Searching for the "Real Aerith." This is evidenced by the fact that the whispers are barely visible in this game despite sephiroth taking control of them. We don't see them at all until the weapons show up, where we find that they've been battling in the lifestream at Sephiroth's command against the white whispers who belong to the (((Planet, but also Aerith through proxy as she's the last one who can speak to the planet, and remember, that both the real sephiorth and the real aerith are NOT in the world we're in during rebirth, they're off in different worlds.)))
When Cloud both saves and doesn't save Aerith, he creates, and bleeds into a timeline where an Aerith still exists, and Aerith Reborn joins him one last time in the battle of Sephiroth with her white whispers. Sephiroth Reborn and Aerith Reborn now both spiritually exist on seperate planes to the "Real Cloud" Aerith mentions in the forest, however cloud being in both worlds at once lets him see her, and the rift in the sky that only exists on the side where Aerith lives, implying that the world she's in is a dead end world that isn't going to last. (The Aerith in that world is not Aerith Reborn, she is just the product of a world where cloud saves her.) The world where she lives will not last, and this will almost certainly be used to mentally destroy cloud in part 3. It is her destiny to die, and not even in another timeline will she be able to escape her fate. She is not heading to the lifestream at the end of the game, she's genuinely going someplace to pray for Meteor's failure, she will however die like every other world's Aerith.
Her death is evidenced by Biggs, Wedge, Zack, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Marlene. Marlene says that when Aerith wakes up in Zack's timeline, Sephiroth will kill her. As in she's fated to die when she awakens. like the Aerith who pushes cloud into the rift in the flowers at the church as he walks through the door. In the timeline where Zack goes to see hojo, He is met with an army of Shinra military about to gun him down like his original death, In the timeline where he goes to save biggs, he is also met with an army of soldiers waiting to gun him down in the exact same way as how he originally died. Biggs took the bullet like he did in Remake's Timeline as he was fated to, but Zack figured out that running instead of fighting would change the timeline. When he jumped down the reactor, he redirected into a timeline where he will still meet with an army of shinra soldiers who will be there to gun him down eventually. Back to REMAKE, When wedge manages to survive the plate crash, he falls and survives, escaping his death, but later at the Shinra tower he is once again pushed from a great height and given the death he was always fated to have. The ONLY Zack that actually lived was the one on the church steps who had not yet made a choice of who to save, and he was sent to wherever the battle with cloud was (Edge of creation?) After that, he wakes up at the church. He, like Aerith, is Unable to escape his fate, but he is starting to find out that if he doesn't fight that fated battle and instead runs, he can live to see another world which will buy him time to find a way to change things. All of the other Zacks have almost certainly met their end no matter what choices they made accept the one that Sephiroth had specifically messed with his whispers
I firmly believe that part 3 will be about acceptance, and that no matter what world they go to, each character will have to accept that their death has to happen, which will then tie into Advent Children as Cloud was given false hope of a world where he saved her. The Aerith and Zack we see speaking to him in the movie are probably their Reborn selves who travelled the timelines and learned to accept their fate in the lifestream. Cloud, and us the players, will not be able to escape the loss of Aerith.
Quick addition: Every Timeline or World where someone is still alive who shouldn't be, which is Zack in this case, has the rift in the sky signifying the end. Even if you escape your fate, you will end up in a world that collapses in on itself. All of these worlds are actually running in parallel (time wise), which is why Zack skipped straight to aftermath the plate collapse, and Biggs reminds Zack of a cloud that couldn't exist in Zack's timeline. There is no going back or forward in time after the events of Remake, they all run perfectly in sync with rebirth's timeline, overwriting events or undoing them. Aerith Reborn and Sephiroth Reborn are the only two entities that have knowledge of the past, or the original timelines.
Nice write up, this was basically my own feeling of where they are going with this but you wrote it with alot more detail. I have to say I don't like it. It's a very convoluted way of saying the same story but gaslighting us from the start that we could change destiny. So they mix it with Dr. Strange Multiverse and Final Destination bits.
Also - on your "date' with Aerith at the end of the game, you are supposed to pick a present for Aerith, and then some candy. No matter what you choose, you are given something else instead. This is the game's way of explaining your points about Zack. Very well written.
@lukewilson624 I'm glad this game exists, don't get me wrong, but I feel like they were trying to cater to both those who wanted to save her and those who wanted the true timeline. IMO there's a dozen better ways they could have handled the ending, like giving us her true death, only to show a glimpse of Aerith and Cloud talking in the post credits. This whole thing basically just feels like an excuse to give us a little more time with Aerith before she dies. I did however REALLY like the events leading up to her death, like the forest scene and the temple. I don't mind being given false hope, I wouldn't have minded actually saving her, but being given both outcomes kind of sours the moment.
Great discussion, one thing I’d add that’s a small, puzzling, but potentially significant detail: the white feather for Zack and Cloud’s interlude. The game shows it pretty prominently at first but then does nothing really with it so my question is will part 3 do Angeal stuff with its multiverse interludes too…? Is that a seed we’re planting?
man, this is a real good video. Well done!
Don’t think that was the spirit of Aerith from current timeline, rather that was another Aerith straight up. Possibly the one that survived. The reason nobody else can see her is that they can’t perceive the multiverse. They wouldn’t be able to see Zack either probably
As a huge fan of the original VII, and final fantasy series, i was excited when they annouced a remake. I'm just not a big fan of these multiverse. It just gets over complicated and but the game looks great, but just mixed feeling about it. Kinda taints the beauty of the original story.
This game is sequal
I completely agree. The original is a classic, and will always be. I try to play these new ones and all I want to do is go back and play the original. 1997 PS1 FF7 is the original source and story with Advent Children being the sequel, that is the Prime universe. All of this other stuff is "expanded universe". These remakes try to fix something that wasn't broken to begin with. The best thing I read online about the original vs the remake is to think about it like Star Trek, you have the Prime timeline and you have the Kelvin remake timeline. Nothing will ever change or retcon the original, this is just an an alternate universe.
@@charlestonho6733 Being a sequel doesn't automatically make it excusable. Regardless of whether you're making a remake, a reboot, a sequel, an adaptation or a reimagining, the old "doing something different" rebuttal does NOT justify taking a beloved IP and doing something WORSE with it. If you can't do something better, don't even bother using the beloved IP in question; have your work be its own self-contained, original IP (e.g., FFXVII).
FF does this since the first Final Fantasy. Timelines, Timeloops, their outcomes and the multiverse they created. Dissidia, Mobius and Stranger of Paradise are about how all the franchise go back to FF1 in concepts. For example, Chaos, Gilgamesh and Bahamut are everywhere. It's not something new and with Gilgamesh it's pretty obvious.
@@AznabelGaiusDingirLu Apples and oranges. Just cause time-travel and multiverse stuff works in SOME FF games, doesn't mean it will work in ANY FF game. FF is an anthology series, which means that each mainline installment is set in its own world with its own rules, conflict and characters. You can't just shoehorn new rules and new conflicts into a story which was never built to accommodate them and say that it's OK because it worked in an entirely different story with its own different rules, characters and conflicts.
And No, I do NOT accept the excuse that what FF7R is doing is OK merely because "it's an alternate world/reality/universe." That lazy copy-out is actually one of the many, MANY reasons why I tend to hate stories which include multiverse theory, on principle.
I feel like these new timelines are implied to be fractures of one original timeline, like pieces breaking off of Gaia's crystal, so to speak. This is different from other multiverses in fiction where timelines multiply in contrast.
This is important distinction, because it tells us that Gaia timelines are increasingly unstable.
Sephiroth has created a "Reunion" that is both dangerous and necessary.
Aerith's death must happen in order to save the planet... no matter which timeline. As the planet(life stream) tries to save itself from Sephiroth's attempt on playing with fate.
I think a lot of people are missing this simple fact when they say her death is cheapened . . . and you can't understand this just from watching the compilation of the cut scenes. I think this needs time to sink in for a lot of us.
It's not a normal multiverse story where Mutiple versions of heroes come together to fight some threat. It's a story where those other timelines literally should not exist and it's kind of a bad thing that they do.
@@writingref😅hey look on the bright side, they have one more game to close this up… hopefully.
@@JPLGFun and I will most likelly spend 140 hours on that one too!
This is the first “explain the ending to me” video I watched because this is my favorite FF channel. 😊
Looks like Cloud is in denial and thinks Aerith is alive still, even though she is actively present through the life stream. He moves on rather quickly which i found odd, then realized hes going through the stages of grief. and hes still at the first one
Watching ff7 child advent he’s still at it
hope they take it in this direction
Nah that is Aerith's spirit. Nanaki sensed her too but he couldn't see her unlike Cloud.
@user-ky8nd2rz4f yeah Cloud clearly breached the fate and saved Aerith in different timeline. It couldn't be any clearer. Do we really need Rebirth ultimania to tell us something that is self explanatory?
Genuinely the first video I ran to when I finish my 120hr+ playthrough. I had this saved for later since it's released. Thanks for your insight (:
Does anyone understand the aftermath of the cetra temple? One minute we were chasing aerith and gave serphiroth the black material, the minute later we wake up in the jungle and everyone was like “what happened in the temple? Did he beat your ass?”. What? Didn’t everyone see what happened??? Are we in an alternative reality from the chapters before???
Maybe the whispers blocked their view? Yea I didn't like that either, I felt like the gang would have witnessed what Cloud did, but apparently they didn't answer Aerith covered for him by lying about how Sephy got the black materia
You know when it’s getting kingdom hearts level of confusing it’s tetsuya nomura
basically SQEX create "Schrödinger's cat" like story.......
tbh skipping cloud enrage after sepiroth stab, kinda disappoint for me,
i really hope that phrase be Voiced
sadly SQEX skip it
That sequence where Aerith Dr Who'd a functioning white materia from another timeline was some real Shark Jumping
My brain can't understand multiverses it confuses me so much. I would prefer one timeline but.. we'll see what they do with the last game.
Did you understand Loki tho?
I think the problem here is that they did a poor job. They used it as a deus ex machina in the last minute instead of properly integrating it with the storytelling and thoroughly exploring it.
@@alexfrank5331 Poor job? That is understatement.
@@wiziek while thing is absolute trash
My brain is fried from all the mulitverse madness that's going on... so many WTF moments that I can't get my head around.
Well I like it
Just finished playing and finally got to watch this video! My current theory is that maybe the OG Sephiroth and the OG Aerith are in a struggle to out collect the other in Black Materia and White Materia by the end of the currently unfolding timelines.
I have finally gotten my life back after pouring 100 plus hours into trying to complete this game. Truly amazing, I haven’t been this obsessed with a game in so long.
Just a personal thought on Cloud being the only one to see Aerith. The white materia, in addition to its original significance, is what is allowing Cloud to communicate with Aerith. As it ties into the planet and the Lifestream, it also allows the person who has it in their possession to interact with people in the Lifestream. This has a little bit of confirmation with the fact that we have some cutscenes where Aerith is talking to an unseen person.
I think Nanaki/Red XIII can sense her when she had direct contact because he has some innate affinity with the planet.
I also think Zack has been carrying around the materia in his timelines as one has the materia fall next to him, and the other when he comments about it being clear (if I remember it correctly), which is why he can see the tear in some timelines.
What about Biggs? He was carried by the whispers to a different timeline. But for what? They never really got to that, he just kinda died in a branch timeline but they never explained why the whispers saved him from the main timeline.
I think Cloud did save Aerith in the main timeline but he’s now in a different timeline, (they never showed the current stamp, I believe) one where she dies. I won’t be surprised when the reunion happens Cloud is sent back to the main timeline where Aerith is alive and well. Who knows, I’m excited to find out
Biggs only dies onscreen in the branch where Zack goes to him instead of the Shinra Building. For all we know in the version of events that played out with Zack going after Hojo, Biggs didn't actually need saving. Zack doesn't have any reason to believe he does other than he headed off the bomb the reactor, he has no foreknowledge that Shinra is on its way or anything like that. If Zack never shows up, they never have that conversation, so Biggs never kicks the bomb into the reactor, never alerts the Shinra troops to his location, and successfully escapes back to the slums.
This likely isn't the last time we're going to see him, though he may now be on his own in a timeline where Zack paid the price of freedom in the Shinra building.
Feels like they’re setting the stage for one of the most godly boss fights in Final Fantasy history
I think dead Aerith is gonna take over the body of the Aerith in Zacks time line in FF7 part 3. Also the in Rebirth they really laid in on Animals looking like Cloud I wonder if there is a connection to it
as for aerith's death, i see the controversy damn.. but the original is still there and this is a sequel
On your part about Rufus: I wonder if that could lead him into becoming a playable character in Part 3
I finally beat the game and I'm still not 100% sure how I feel about the multi verse that's unfolding. On one end, I like the idea of being able to integrate Zack and other beloved characters who died to come back to the story once again but on the other hand I also feel like it takes away from the grandness and finality of a story and the decisions that are made by the characters.
For example, in Dragonball, although I loved what it was, I hated the fact that characters constantly died and came back to life so easily using Dragonballs, it made characters dying in the story meaningless. I don't think FF7 is going down that path per se but seeing Aerith die like 4 times and come back in this game was so confusing and it felt like towards the end it eventually took away some of the emotion involved with her death. I'll have to wait and see how they handle things in part 3 but overall I absolutely loved this game and can honestly say it's one of the best I've ever played.
Odds are a version of Zack and Aerith remain playable next part... Even the finale. If they sre crazy about fan service, even a version of Sephiroth that didn't go mad.
God, I hope this good guy Sephiroth idea never happens.
@@raulsouza5866 It sounds very Nomura tho.
Imagine Sephiroth being playable... with swimsuit DLC. $$$$$$$
@@alexfrank5331Nomura language is now a thing
@@raulsouza5866 It already happened...he was a good guy 🤨
@@federicamacchia1656 I played Crisis Core and I liked to see Sephiroth before he goes nuts, but he is the villain of FF VII, it doesn't make any sense to make him good again to say that Jenova, Xemnas or something else is the true enemy...that's my 2 cents at least.
Some of y’all are nitpicking a game that wasn’t even the ending to the entire story. It was meant to make you question things to set up for the next one. You’ll get your moments then
My favorite part is how some ppl still think aerith will live despite what the devs said abt AC being canon
I mean she can just live in another timeline that's why multiverse is dumb if you don't know what your doing with it.
Im not even a diehard Aerith fan and part of me hopes she lives just to spite these fanboys who get a hard on by watching her get stabbed in the torso. It's so weird.
@@XT91But she's only temporarily alive in those other timelines. In other words, this isn't like an infinite multiverse. It is only one created by fighting against fate.
One way you can look at it is Sephiroth wants to CREATE an infinite multiverse where nothing would matter except for him - who would be in control of it all.
Aerith is struggling against that, and knows her time is limited.
She doesn't even return to the LifeStream at the end. Her soul is stuck in that ancient city area to continue the fight against meteor. And in timelines where she is alive, she knows those are only temporary. So its very sad but very hopeful and beautiful - with lots of consequence.
@@writingref Nah I don't know how you've arrived at any of that with no third game present. Im still hoping for Aerith Prime to fight Sephiroth Prime on Earth Prime dual wielding 2 keyblades from KH.
@@XT91 umm ... did you watch the video we are commenting on? He lays it out. Sephiroth finds her in every timeline. Every branch timeline is disintegrating. No matter what Zack or Biggs do - their original fate catches up with them. When you pick a present for Aerith, no matter what you choose, you get a chocobo pin.
Scrub your mind of Marvel multiverse for this.
What's interesting is it is written in a way that we as old fans have a sense for how Sephiroth knows so much and understanding the lifestream sequences, but new fans will ahve no clue.
honestly i loved the ending, i mean not her dying cause i love her but i thought it was very pretty and heartbreaking, the scene where she pushes cloud should have then cut to her dying i didn't get why the added all the extra in between but i liked that cloud was with her at the end, i think aerith is there in spirit and cloud aha a pink flashback as well as a green one so i think aerith will help him with his trauma in part 3 and try to comfort him and combat sephiroth's manipulation, wish there wasn't so many multiverses but i actually liked the way everything was presented x
I disagree with you on the thing with arieth helping him with his trauma that not her role that’s tifas because she put cloud mind back together arieth just protects them both in the livestream and think that is what going to happen part 3 because devs have said them selves that the livestream sequence with Tifa and cloud is there favourite moment form og so they probably adapt that scene but they might have arieth help guide tifa in the livestream to cloud
ermmmm pretty sure they already did that bit, just written different, cloud knocks tifa into the life stream, she is eaten by a weapon and somehow goes to the life steam, lucky the weapon just spits her out...... its a mess@@garethhayles6885
Great re telling of a story we all grew up loving.
I wish they toned down the crazy whispers during the end battle and spent more time building up that battle. I was hoping to draw out the pre death scene, but it was straight to the point.
I hope zack gets to meet in the main time line.
I definitely chose the wrong gifts for Aerith during their date 😂. Gona run that back.
Great video and breakdown❤
Sephiroth wants the ultimate reunion, his ambitions have grown.
at the same time, it's not that different from the original game...so they changed everything but didn't change anything...I think I liked this ideia, although it was very messy in execution sometimes.
@@raulsouza5866 we need the third game to wrap up this whole story and get the full context (we hope). At this point I am expecting a literal army of Sephiroths to show up and fight an even bigger army of heroes from across all of FF7's branch of the greater Final Fantasy multiverse.
@@supremefankai5480or....Maybe not 😅.Maybe the've cooking Something totally different for Sephiroth.....pay attention to a lot of weird details hidden here and there when there's a "Sephiroth" involved,and you'll understand what i mean...
I like the idea that if Sephiroth's ambitions have grown, his tactics have probably grown too, so the build up to the final confrontation could be worlds different than the OG disc 3 north crater. IDK what it'll be exactly, but I'm hoping: intense, spectacular, mind-trippy, and with outstanding music
One of the better videos analyzing the ending that tried to capture as much detail as possible.
So, according to your analysis at 8:05, the frames with/without a pool of blood in Aerith's death could mean that there are 2 multiverses? One where Cloud saved Aerith in time and one where he was too late? Because the game only focuses on the second one.
I still don't understand how there would be different Stamps when you consider , timelines fractured into new paths long after his original conception.
Adding a multiverse just kills any investment in the story. Why should we care about the story, about who lives or dies, if we’re just using a multiverse and characters can just come back from another world. What’s the point of caring about saving Aerith if it’s all a lie and just happens in another universe? I’m so tired of these kind of stories…
Aerith's death has zero impact here, because minutes later, literally another Aerith just walks in...the multiverse thing pretty much killed any stakes in fiction.
FF does this since the first Final Fantasy. Timelines, Timeloops, their outcomes and the multiverse they created. Dissidia, Mobius and Stranger of Paradise are about how all the franchise go back to FF1 in concepts. For example, Chaos, Gilgamesh and Bahamut are everywhere. It's not something new and with Gilgamesh it's pretty obvious.
The Reunion.... The Worlds are going to be shoved back together. But Cloud, Aerith, and Sephiroth are deciding how it gets shoved back together. Or rather, the Strongest World survives to be the Destined one.
Think of it like the World of Final Fantasy 7 exists in the Unconscious Mind of the Souls of the Planet and the Worlds and Timelines are the Planet Thinking. So you have to convince the Planet to chose your World over anyone else's. To imagine your Paradise over another's.
@@AznabelGaiusDingirLu And? This is shit writing naming a bunch stuff off doesn't handwave the awful writing.
Beat it this afternoon. Still processing my feelings
I hope the timelines are being represented as if they are "all alive", but in reality like what happened to Biggs - these timelines tells us that they cannot escape their fates which is they are going to die no matter the timeline. FF7 is written by Sakaguchi due to his mother passing away, that's why the main theme of FF7 is about the paint of losing someone, grieving and acceptance.
could be, although it also could be possible that they highlight a different theme in the remake trilogy. just like it's possible that, in real life, devs who made the 1997 game may have a whole different perspective on their own story and the real life themes that resonate for them in 2024
Unlikely as in new zacks timeline, all of avalanche are dead bar biggs. Aerith is also dead in the "dream" timeline that gave cloud a new holy materia, as sephiroth came for her.
which main theme??? Cloud theme, or the theme that starts to play when you open the game and you are in the interfas?
@@Panndiita I'm not exactly talking about music but the story's theme XD but if we're talking about the music, the world map theme (FF7's main theme) exactly describes FF7's story that's why Nobuo Uematsu is a genius. The music starts hopeful, turns scary, hopeless and then hopeful again.
@@aileene-ez9gx ohhh i know that feel, it makes it more special!!! ; _ ; yes! the world map melody, is the same as cloud's theme :,) damn man.... the feels ..