You're 100% correct. It's an entirely different sense of satisfaction and relief when you have to spend a few hours working out the kinks before everything finally lands. I really appreciate these types of videos sir.
Yep should have put a string line first thing to see if the girder truss is straight and parallel with the bobtail trusses. Its the old coulda woulda shoulda but good to see he got it worked out.
Teach & Train plus repetition is key to being a good leader when you have employees. The way to get faster is not for you to do it because you are faster at it, but to teach and train, so your whole team is faster. It's and overlooked and underestimated piece in many trades. This is a nice project, I can't wait to see it a little further along, I'm really liking it.
Thanks for showing this, Tim. I have figured out from my many number of nails pulled that the heads seem to stay on more often when you get a bit of wood in between the cat's paw and the nail head. I hope this helps!
A good carpenter fixes his mistakes,and that you are. This is a huge complicated framing job. And you did it Tim,awesome as ever. Great teaching and excellent job . Thx.💪💪👍👍
Love this so much! A good reminder that this stuff doesn’t just happen to me 😂 I would venture to say it happens to most people but they would never post it. Thanks for being confident enough in your trade to share this.
Love the channel a each episode. Sometimes reality strikes and you have to adapt.....of course keeping it structurally sound and aesthetically pleasing. Thanks for sharing.
We do 6×12 Doug fir exposed rafter lanais for a builder we work for. They're a 2/12 typically. The lower the pitch, the more sensitive that run is! I always get butterflies setting that first rafter, because everything is pre-cut from the ground. They take so long to cut and are an expensive mistake if you mess up! A 4 ply girder will never, ever be straight. I wish they would bolt all the webs from the factory, THEN apply gusset only to the outsides. I bet that thing is 6 - 1/2" at the gussets!
The best connector for dry installation or assessment of feasibility is using one screw per board, playing with adjustment and final verdict with shank nails. no misery, no trial and tribulation. My sincere reverence to you and to your patient crews.
You are absolutely right and I have to tell people all the time, the only way to get better is to do. Allow the apprentice to do things, even if he is slow and makes mistakes. He will get faster and better. Like you said, many people in the trades are unable to let go. Those people are bad delegators and bad leaders.
Love your channel. I like how you explain what you’re doing. It’s very refreshing that you’re humble enough to show how the entire crew was tied up in a complication that with careful consideration and devotion to integrity, you overcame. I don’t think there’s a much more disappointing thing than working for a boss with a poor attitude and ethics
I would rather build 2 gable roof’s than 1 shed roof I remodel so the walls are never perfect bows are more common so we are constantly adjusting rafter length
I'm positive with just another half hour or so, you would have been able to snag that hanger!lol! I absolutely love those btw, very cool. Always trust your insane architect, they have to sign the paperwork! Thanks for the video Tim!
I'm no professional framer by all means, but I was figgering it out before he explained .I have Built 2 homes in my life time I'm going on 61 now .getting ready to build in april to build my 3 and last home .it's not rocket science lol
I read in Fine Homebuilding years ago that an expert isn’t a tradesperson who never makes a mistake. It’s someone who knows how to fix his or her mistakes. Question: were you using the same nailer for the hangers as you did for toenailing?
The Japanese nail pullers are the best. I bought mine in 92. I paid 17 dollars for it and everybody laugh at me. At the time the Stanley cost 8 dollars. It's 2024 and still use it everyday. Who's laughing now?
Did you ever figure out what caused that deviation in the girder? Stacked connector plates? One of the upper trusses a little off or just crappy lumber? Like a true craftsman, you find the elegant in it's simplicity solution.
@AwesomeFramers I don't think people realize that even with the best of drawn plans, how much is adapt and overcome. Anyways, I got a blooper I need to send you.
Nice vid! What is the point of the Girder trusses is this build? i see a wall underneath it that looks to be supporting it most of the span… unless this wall isn’t load bearing and there isn’t footers below it, I’m confused.
Girder trusses are the worst! They’re never made exactly the same in the factory and if you attach them together on uneven ground, you’re qook’d! We block and string all sides to ensure they’re straight while we fasten them together
Truss manufacturers build to the maximum tolerance of the framers... They know we take their less than products because we don't have time for them to make em right.
Not just the trades. I work an office job and I do things myself all the time instead of taking the time to train others. I need to be better about that.
Take the effective run (run minus ledger) and height and calculate a rough slope. Then draw out the birdsmouth and figure out what that height is, subtract that from the rise and get a new pitch.
You really need an SRL such as 3M Protecta series, instead of that safety rope. It will save you from being tangled in your walk-board framing and material's. It's not perfect as it would tug on you, but better than the ironic alternative.
I can tell you the fix before I've even watched it. Set the tops of the rafters to a string so they are in a flat plane; let the tales run wild; trim the tales for desired overhang. DONE.
The drawings were wrong, you don't say. we don't do a lot of trusses, but when we do, I end up doing that same dance. Just got to make it work. and don't get me going on the gang trusses, where all the plates line up and add 1/2" to the thickness. Then have to enplane why the other end is sticking out off the wall that 1/2" It's good to see were not alone.
Those metabo impacts are bad about braking at the base of the grip when they are dropped. I guess it a weak point on them. None Of the other impact we use seam to brake easy like that.
why didnt you just pack the ledger board plumb against the truss so your rafter cuts are good, rather than using a the bar to pull it out to suit the rafter cut lol
It's wood not a bunch of compressed pieces pressed together and its laying around there's no way that beam could be absolutely true and what you ended up doing is all you can do. I can't tell you how many times I've had to correct a dimensional framing piece especially when stacking them Even big box where the climate is controlled
And yes, it's a good thing I'm not a farmer, because I'd spend too much on structural screws and rafter hangers instead of *ever* toe nailing I just went and checked and the Simpson LRUZ hangers are impressively strong... Why do people ever toe nail things when there's a hanger that guarantees a connection with like 1600 pounds of uplift resistance?
In an effort to be conscientious about the amount of lumber one should use on a job, why then is there such an enormous amount of lumber on this current job you are on? Seems like a very poor house design.
I don't disagree with you. As I've stated throughout the videos for this project, we were handed the plans after it was engineered and permitted with a time frame. This means we have zero say in the design, or enough time to get some of this adjusted. That's why I call this the "thermal bridge to nowhere". Having said that, in our climate, it won't really make a difference. Our airtightness numbers will be low and the HVAC will be very efficient. So at the end of the day, its a very well built house, efficient and will survive the "big one" better than any residence on this street.
@@AwesomeFramers Wow. that is an amazingly quick response. Thank you. I'm an ex-framer turned plumber here in Minnesota. Thank you for your amazing channel. I really enjoy watching all of your videos. One question. Why is there a push to do the continuous sheathing/ insulation methods? Doesn't seem to be a winner in the scales of cost/benefits. I appreciate you. Keep up the great work.
I seems like a support ledger UNDER those rafters would be 10X better than those cheesy truss hangars. Engineered doesn't always mean better and code is the barest of bare minimums. Old houses were built better, there's just no comparison. IMHO
the "cheesy truss hangars" ARE "support under those rafters". You obviously have no idea how much those straps of metal can support, especially relative to how little of a load will be any one truss.
@@curtisbme I now exactly what they tell us. We have built homes for hundreds of years before they came along. They are COMPLETLY unneeded. It's not uncommon to find homes hundreds of years old with not a single engineered piece in them. Now EVERYTHING needs engineered. it's all crap so companies can sell you junk and the government FORCES you to buy it. It's not better, it's not even cheaper. The roof in this video could have been place on a beam under it at the top of the shed and eliminate all of the problems. It would have been easier.
@@frotobaggins7169 code is NOT the barest of minimums. Code is the result of analysis and testing+ safety factors. You SHOULD trust engineering when the testing reports show a value, but that value has a 4x safety factor.
@@AwesomeFramers If you do less than the code, it will not pass, therefore it is the bare minimum. You can exceed the code if you choose to but can not fall below code.
@@frotobaggins7169 I think you're under the assumption that "code" is monolithic and that 4x factor of safety is the functional line for bare minimum. I can bet you've never been out of the US/Europe if you believe that! "Code" is a ridiculously high standard in the grand scheme of things and houses "back in the day" were not built to this mythical level quality you seem to think.
As a framing carpenter you must ALWAYS use your string line ALL THE THE TIME or a laser just too see if your inline with squares that come from plumb & level ; wall & floor 😅😅😅🦺🔨🪚🪛📐🛠️📝 always check for all these before you start a building or housing 🙌💪👍👌use screws too tag; rafters oneside nailing 🤔
Close minded thinkers like you are why we take the time to educate. Since you don't contribute anything meaningful to the trades, we do. There is a huge need to share and this is part of our business. Goes all the way back to 2003 when my first article was published in JLC (JLC online.com).
You're 100% correct. It's an entirely different sense of satisfaction and relief when you have to spend a few hours working out the kinks before everything finally lands. I really appreciate these types of videos sir.
String lines and shims help bring joy in an imperfect world. Glad you posted this video.
Yep should have put a string line first thing to see if the girder truss is straight and parallel with the bobtail trusses. Its the old coulda woulda shoulda but good to see he got it worked out.
Thank you for showing real framing woes. Unless everything comes precut from the factory it seldom just lines up perfectly. 👏
Teach & Train plus repetition is key to being a good leader when you have employees. The way to get faster is not for you to do it because you are faster at it, but to teach and train, so your whole team is faster. It's and overlooked and underestimated piece in many trades. This is a nice project, I can't wait to see it a little further along, I'm really liking it.
For the first 20 minutes I thought I was watching the Perkins brothers? 😂 , just kidding I think you're all great 👍🏻
I take that as a compliment. I love those guys.
that tomb stone would read "I tripped over my fall rope and still hit the ground"
Thanks for showing this, Tim. I have figured out from my many number of nails pulled that the heads seem to stay on more often when you get a bit of wood in between the cat's paw and the nail head. I hope this helps!
Thanks for being humble
It’s refreshing to watch your mistakes
As we all make them
The default excuse is always the Architect 😂
Blame it on the painter
Architect don’t build house.
@@papatutti59they don't really do much at all
When the pitch is shown as one thing but doesn't calculate out, then who's fault would it be?
A good carpenter fixes his mistakes,and that you are. This is a huge complicated framing job. And you did it Tim,awesome as ever. Great teaching and excellent job . Thx.💪💪👍👍
Tim's great, and i mean no disrespect to you, but this is the opposite of a huge, complicated framing job.
@mattmag3089 your right .my biggest job was 120 ft ×50ft barn ,5 guys 👍
I thought the saying was " every good carpenter covers his last mistake with his last nail"
Love this so much! A good reminder that this stuff doesn’t just happen to me 😂
I would venture to say it happens to most people but they would never post it. Thanks for being confident enough in your trade to share this.
Love the channel a each episode. Sometimes reality strikes and you have to adapt.....of course keeping it structurally sound and aesthetically pleasing. Thanks for sharing.
We do 6×12 Doug fir exposed rafter lanais for a builder we work for. They're a 2/12 typically. The lower the pitch, the more sensitive that run is! I always get butterflies setting that first rafter, because everything is pre-cut from the ground. They take so long to cut and are an expensive mistake if you mess up! A 4 ply girder will never, ever be straight. I wish they would bolt all the webs from the factory, THEN apply gusset only to the outsides. I bet that thing is 6 - 1/2" at the gussets!
The best connector for dry installation or assessment of feasibility is using one screw per board, playing with adjustment and final verdict with shank nails. no misery, no trial and tribulation. My sincere reverence to you and to your patient crews.
No kidding. Use 3" framing screws to get everything set. Beats wallowing out the lumber digging for nails!
You are absolutely right and I have to tell people all the time, the only way to get better is to do. Allow the apprentice to do things, even if he is slow and makes mistakes. He will get faster and better. Like you said, many people in the trades are unable to let go. Those people are bad delegators and bad leaders.
Love your channel. I like how you explain what you’re doing. It’s very refreshing that you’re humble enough to show how the entire crew was tied up in a complication that with careful consideration and devotion to integrity, you overcame. I don’t think there’s a much more disappointing thing than working for a boss with a poor attitude and ethics
This was awesome, pun intended 😅. Love the fact you include the good, the bad and the train wrecks.
I would rather build 2 gable roof’s than 1 shed roof I remodel so the walls are never perfect bows are more common so we are constantly adjusting rafter length
Love that even after dropping the driver, you refuse to use the wrist strap
Hey Tim, I think I just saw your drone somewhere over New Jersey?
Tim,
I love the Benny Hill music! Along with architect bashing! 👏🏻👏🏻❤️❤️😂😂
From experience, I recognized Kyle’s stance at 11:02 😂…great job in the end boys!
Yo Tim- you’re the man.!
I'm positive with just another half hour or so, you would have been able to snag that hanger!lol! I absolutely love those btw, very cool. Always trust your insane architect, they have to sign the paperwork! Thanks for the video Tim!
I'm no professional framer by all means, but I was figgering it out before he explained .I have Built 2 homes in my life time I'm going on 61 now .getting ready to build in april to build my 3 and last home .it's not rocket science lol
Tim. What do you mean exactly about an air gap and why does there need to be one?
Were can I get a pencil like that
I read in Fine Homebuilding years ago that an expert isn’t a tradesperson who never makes a mistake. It’s someone who knows how to fix his or her mistakes.
Question: were you using the same nailer for the hangers as you did for toenailing?
The Japanese nail pullers are the best. I bought mine in 92. I paid 17 dollars for it and everybody laugh at me. At the time the Stanley cost 8 dollars. It's 2024 and still use it everyday. Who's laughing now?
Your nailpuller is older than I am. Hope my nail puller lasts that long
loved the video, well done for keeping your cool 😎
He didn't exactly say but was the mistake? Was it that he nailed the two rafters with too high an air gap? Or that he didnt realize there was a bow?
Did you ever figure out what caused that deviation in the girder? Stacked connector plates? One of the upper trusses a little off or just crappy lumber? Like a true craftsman, you find the elegant in it's simplicity solution.
Yep, it's the gang plates and all the breaks in material are at exactly the same spot. So it accumulated
@AwesomeFramers I don't think people realize that even with the best of drawn plans, how much is adapt and overcome. Anyways, I got a blooper I need to send you.
Nice vid! What is the point of the Girder trusses is this build? i see a wall underneath it that looks to be supporting it most of the span… unless this wall isn’t load bearing and there isn’t footers below it, I’m confused.
Exactly 🤣🤣 and it has a concrete wall under it. We were handed the plans and built it
Girder trusses are the worst! They’re never made exactly the same in the factory and if you attach them together on uneven ground, you’re qook’d! We block and string all sides to ensure they’re straight while we fasten them together
Truss manufacturers build to the maximum tolerance of the framers... They know we take their less than products because we don't have time for them to make em right.
You didn’t post a link to your Japanese NailPuller 😢
hardwickandsons.com/products/dalluge-12-da-bar-nail-puller-4300
I can't find any places where it's in stock
Is the header 4 wide?
The girder truss is a 4 ply
Not just the trades. I work an office job and I do things myself all the time instead of taking the time to train others. I need to be better about that.
Awesome
> framing like that is why simpson is in business
Yo, was this done on a Friday the 13th? Looks like it was a very unlucky kind of day...
Yeah good job..... and to do all that while filming.... great job! I would have had everyone take lunch.... while I figure it out. Lol
Did Metabo survive?
he said both didnt, he did buy some makitas to replace them
How do you figure out a roof rafter when the ledger board and beam area already installed and set?
Math
Take the effective run (run minus ledger) and height and calculate a rough slope. Then draw out the birdsmouth and figure out what that height is, subtract that from the rise and get a new pitch.
You really need an SRL such as 3M Protecta series, instead of that safety rope. It will save you from being tangled in your walk-board framing and material's. It's not perfect as it would tug on you, but better than the ironic alternative.
What nails do you prefer?
I've had days like this. Ray
What happened to “old Kyle”?
I can tell you the fix before I've even watched it. Set the tops of the rafters to a string so they are in a flat plane; let the tales run wild; trim the tales for desired overhang. DONE.
I’m a framer and i have no idea what Digression even is 😂
What happened to old kyle
The drawings were wrong, you don't say.
we don't do a lot of trusses, but when we do, I end up doing that same dance. Just got to make it work.
and don't get me going on the gang trusses, where all the plates line up and add 1/2" to the thickness. Then have to enplane why the other end is sticking out off the wall that 1/2" It's good to see were not alone.
Didn't drop rafter on left down the inch you did to the right one
Those metabo impacts are bad about braking at the base of the grip when they are dropped. I guess it a weak point on them. None
Of the other impact we use seam to brake easy like that.
Problem solving is a key component of carpentry.
That's why I'm not too fond of trusses.
why didnt you just pack the ledger board plumb against the truss so your rafter cuts are good, rather than using a the bar to pull it out to suit the rafter cut lol
Because we didn't know we couldn't fasten tight until the rafters went in
I have a meaculpa too
Crowns and bows = string lines
Metabo nails do the same thing it’s not just paslode
It's wood not a bunch of compressed pieces pressed together and its laying around there's no way that beam could be absolutely true and what you ended up doing is all you can do. I can't tell you how many times I've had to correct a dimensional framing piece especially when stacking them
Even big box where the climate is controlled
I still can’t get used to everything nowadays 24” oc
It's been 24" of trusses here for 40 years
PLACE A RARE EARTH MAGNET ON THE END OF YOUR TAPE!
Reasons why I hate nails, #9763
And yes, it's a good thing I'm not a farmer, because I'd spend too much on structural screws and rafter hangers instead of *ever* toe nailing
I just went and checked and the Simpson LRUZ hangers are impressively strong... Why do people ever toe nail things when there's a hanger that guarantees a connection with like 1600 pounds of uplift resistance?
gotta give the other guy some repititions...
In an effort to be conscientious about the amount of lumber one should use on a job, why then is there such an enormous amount of lumber on this current job you are on? Seems like a very poor house design.
I don't disagree with you. As I've stated throughout the videos for this project, we were handed the plans after it was engineered and permitted with a time frame. This means we have zero say in the design, or enough time to get some of this adjusted. That's why I call this the "thermal bridge to nowhere".
Having said that, in our climate, it won't really make a difference. Our airtightness numbers will be low and the HVAC will be very efficient. So at the end of the day, its a very well built house, efficient and will survive the "big one" better than any residence on this street.
@@AwesomeFramers Wow. that is an amazingly quick response. Thank you. I'm an ex-framer turned plumber here in Minnesota. Thank you for your amazing channel. I really enjoy watching all of your videos. One question. Why is there a push to do the continuous sheathing/ insulation methods? Doesn't seem to be a winner in the scales of cost/benefits. I appreciate you. Keep up the great work.
@@beastlybombers Lots of reasons for the push. Dr Joe Lsiburek (of Building Science Corp) describes is as putting on a warm coat in the winter.
I like your new channel. Amateur Framers.
They frame because the love doing it, ( twice )
Get a longer rafter and set it on top of the gang trussells bird mouth the bottom playing it into the upper trusses
@@kurtpealer9549 good idea
You could have an unfortunate accident and later you would be able to sing those higher tunes... just say'n.
I seems like a support ledger UNDER those rafters would be 10X better than those cheesy truss hangars. Engineered doesn't always mean better and code is the barest of bare minimums. Old houses were built better, there's just no comparison. IMHO
the "cheesy truss hangars" ARE "support under those rafters". You obviously have no idea how much those straps of metal can support, especially relative to how little of a load will be any one truss.
@@curtisbme I now exactly what they tell us. We have built homes for hundreds of years before they came along. They are COMPLETLY unneeded. It's not uncommon to find homes hundreds of years old with not a single engineered piece in them. Now EVERYTHING needs engineered. it's all crap so companies can sell you junk and the government FORCES you to buy it. It's not better, it's not even cheaper. The roof in this video could have been place on a beam under it at the top of the shed and eliminate all of the problems. It would have been easier.
@@frotobaggins7169 code is NOT the barest of minimums. Code is the result of analysis and testing+ safety factors.
You SHOULD trust engineering when the testing reports show a value, but that value has a 4x safety factor.
@@AwesomeFramers If you do less than the code, it will not pass, therefore it is the bare minimum. You can exceed the code if you choose to but can not fall below code.
@@frotobaggins7169 I think you're under the assumption that "code" is monolithic and that 4x factor of safety is the functional line for bare minimum. I can bet you've never been out of the US/Europe if you believe that! "Code" is a ridiculously high standard in the grand scheme of things and houses "back in the day" were not built to this mythical level quality you seem to think.
As a framing carpenter you must ALWAYS use your string line ALL THE THE TIME or a laser just too see if your inline with squares that come from plumb & level ; wall & floor 😅😅😅🦺🔨🪚🪛📐🛠️📝 always check for all these before you start a building or housing 🙌💪👍👌use screws too tag; rafters oneside nailing 🤔
If my builder entrepreneurs did selfie videos for social media during work I would let them go and hire other entrepreneurs
Close minded thinkers like you are why we take the time to educate. Since you don't contribute anything meaningful to the trades, we do. There is a huge need to share and this is part of our business. Goes all the way back to 2003 when my first article was published in JLC (JLC online.com).