I have an early 19th (?) table, or perhaps later 18th, where the maker used scarf joints to create the illusion of curving ends and feet on the legs. I've seen castle joints in tables, and draw-bored mortise and tenon joints in timber framed barns. Scale and tool size are the only differences between well-made furniture and cabinetry. Both trades call for similar understanding of wood.
@@BakerVS It is beautiful. I think it is southeast US, vernacular made, Federal influence. The legs taper through the scarf from 3/4 inch to 1/2 inch. They are far and away the smallest, most delicate scarf joints I've ever seen.
I have used this joint, used years ago for ship work but I was taught to angle the but ends more so there could be no potential movement once the wedges were driven. Last used this joint in frame of Grade II house. Still standing 30 years later and it was very old oak used and joint cut with hand tools. For ship work you had a mid joint of tennon and hollow so it did not twist.
@ Nope! I got involved in old boats and the mediaeval houses and then bought a 17thC house. Being poor my wife and I renovated it ourselves using skills acquired form other activities!
I always like to take the time to appreciate work that I am pleased with! Perhaps it's because very few other people will understand. Nice work as always. Cheers. Jim
Wow, this was quite a find. Where do you even find oak beams that size? Forestry is about our second biggest industry here in New Zealand, but it's super hard finding anything other than radiata pine, and even with that, the best timber goes to China. I feel like I want to say that I'd like to do a project like that, but I don't have the space or fork lift, and I am 75 and have a serious back problem. I have the tools other than that but rarely get the chance to use them on large projects. My Menz Shed is making some timber picnic tables an seats (out of pine), but I usually do smaller projects. I shall definitely go back and watch the other videos in this series and am pleased to have found your channel. I winced a wee bit seeing you use that clamp as a cant hook and was expecting it break on you. I don't think I'd be brave enough to clear the central waste from those joints with a planer, as I am sure I'd go too far an mess up, I'd have used the router with a surfacing bit. I love the big spiral bits, but I also have a largish bit that has inserts the same as you'd find on a helical head, and it scares the life out of me the way it grabs. I'll look out for one like you were using seeing as it is apparently so smooth even on end grain. BTW I am a retired toolmaker, design engineer who joined the local Menz Shed to carry on using machine tools, and discovered that I like working with wood - except for the fact that it moves to bloody much! I now have a decent wood shop at home, because I couldn't bare sharing tools with the animals at the Shed. Plus they are scary as all heck sometimes. Goodness knows how no one has had a serious accident!
Yes - I've commented this too. This isn't a jupiter scarf (trait de jupiter) - it's closer to a regular splice with wedges and has a number of issues, as you identify the primary issue is the wedges are doing half the work they could be. There are many examples of this inferior scarf on the web. This is how to lay one out correctly th-cam.com/video/p7K6m6cH7os/w-d-xo.html
From what I've seen this splice works best when you put a post with a through tenon at it's top through the middle of it as a pin. This keeps it from twisting since the tenon usually wants to go in line with the beam. Also since the load supporting use of the beam by putting the post under the scarf you aren't relying on the joint itself to bear a load in space.
6:13 might want to look up the traditional Japanese "Kanawa tsugi" joint, which includes keying the ends to prevent misalignment once the wedge is in place.
Looks like it’s all coming together- plenty more mortises to come all along the length of the beam, how long does a sharpened chain last in the chain mortiser cutting into the green oak?
Absolutely love all your videos and enjoy the blended subject matter. When you were doing the splice job on the beams and got to the stage of cutting the housings for the wedge - did you not consider keeping it all assembled and clamped and cutting the housing with your chain morticer? I realise you are cracking out long hours farming and making sawdust as well as cranking out regular YT output (Thank you) - but have you ever watched Leo of the Sampson Boat Company who is rebuilding an old wooden yacht Tally Ho ( he has done some amazing woodwork - and in particular spliced joints in large keel timbers made of purple heart) and is 6 years into the project. Another one is Kris of Kris Harbour Natural building - a much more eclectic channel building hydro schemes, wind turbines and more recently timber framed buildings. Worth a scan during the winter if you find yourself at a loose end for a couple of milliseconds.👍🤣
To keep it from twisting sideways, you could simulate a bridle joint. Make a tongue and groove type joint longitudinally down the scarf. Kind of like a keyway on a shaft. Route the grooves out then use around a 15x15mm square oak "tongue" make sure and rotate the grain on the key/tongue vertically so it won't shear. It would be nice and clean so it wouldn't show. Make sure there is some clearance in the groove, so the tongue doesn't swell and separate the joint.
Yep, this is seen in japanese scarfs often. A jupiter scarf (which this isn't) that is fitted well will resist more side load than is typical for a beam (in good timber frame design the only significant load on a beam should be vertical).
Like Gibbs, with chainsaw? But seriously , I had a worker that built a 20ft river sled in his basement during winter. He took a fair bit of ribbing about how he was going to get it out.. That was utill he said he'd planned for an extension and renovation the following spring,one that included lifting the house to install insulated concrete basement walls in replacement for the damp MCU. And blowing out the front walls..
Fantastic work as always. Looking forward to the next episode. Have you heard of Guedelon? They are building a castle using traditional methods two and a half hours drive south of Paris. I’d recommend a visit 🌞
That is a sight. Half a mil off, over 20 cm width, is 1/400th. That is one quarter of a percent. That is a pretty good tolerance, probably well within the precision limit of any powertool. I’d not bother with screws, somehow they always manage to suck moisture in. Putting some pegs through will surely give it enough rigidity, this kind of joint by itself is already almost indestructible.
10 years framer here. The wedges aren't doing much, only pushing the joint tight by that hairline gap ~0.5mm. Which is enough friction to stop the joint pulling apart initially, but not really enough to counter the powers of Oak drying. There should be stepped, offset faces the full width of the wedges. This will likely peel open over time. Could need some metal fixings. Your joinery stuff is sick though. Quality stuff 🤙
I’m confused- are you saying that a scarp joint will not work in green oak, or that the geometry of this one is wrong? As far as I understand it, the toe is keyed in at maybe 5 degrees or so (so not purely friction but more like oblique compression). This joint has been made tight as can be, and I have seen lots of very older/cruder scarps holding good.
@@c4fishfood i'm saying that in this particular design the wedges are only effective up to that hairline gap, maybe 1mm max. there is one long flat face here, which is a basic scarf and would be fine if it was air dried joinery with glue. but the power of drying oak is a whole different beast. there should be a step in the middle (the width of the wedges) so that the full force of the wedges is pushing up against one face cut in each half of the scarf. he did do it properly in the video titled 'scarf jointing the ridge beam'. looks like a similar joint but the wedges are sooooooo much more effective.
Another solution for the wasp nest is ant powder, dust the opening of the nest with it, they drag the power into the nest and it kills everything in the nest. Works a treat, was shown this by pest control inspector.
The joints at the ends has to have zero gap between them for the joint to be strong. You can acieve that by making a cut through each joint when the joint is "loosely" assembled with a handsaw. Your joints looks absolutely beautiful, but it wont matter if they're not strong 😬 i like your videos, keep them coming 👍
Cheers bud, yeah I'll kerf them when final fit, no point now as they'll probably move between now and then as you know. They were close enough not to do owt with them at this stage
Please dont, the guy doesnt know what he's doing and shouldn't be making oak framing videos. He is a clearly a great joiner but unfortunatley being a good joiner doesnt make you a good oak framer as the requirements of the joint details are very different.
Is that oak? Massive beams! Absolutely amazing. Hailing from Scandinavia were all we have are puny baby trees since the lumber industry here is absolutely r*tarded.
This isn’t a jupiter scarf. A jupiter scarf is what you should be doing 😅. A jupiter scarf is hooked which allows the wedges to have full contact with both pieces, not in a trench like you’ve done here.
What you’ve done is fine but it is inferior to a jupiter scarf (aka trait de jupiter or as it’s known in the US, a hooked stop-splayed undersquinted scarf joint)
Watch hammering oak with a lump hammer, if it's green it's guaranteed to bruise and stain. If it's dry it can still stain if it gets wet (only needs the tiniest bit of iron on the surface to react)
To address the tapered/poor fit of the second scarf you could kerf cut them together by clamping/fixing the pieces together and running a saw down the gap, taking off any points that contact. Japanese saws are considerably better than western saws at this (using tension lets you put much more work into the cut) - this can be a lot of work though if you have a lot of correction to do
Saw kerf this ends and it will be absolutely perfect What about a domino or two each side on that ‘shoulder’ ( the one I keep harping on about running a fine saw down 😜) Then it should close up to perfect alignment with sort of a fox wedged tenon feel Damn I’m a genius dude 😇 😂
Love the project, friend, but I have a complaint about you killing the wasps. They are pollinators, and a part-time farmer, or at least farmer-adjacent, you should appreciate the value of pollinators. A simple phone call to an expert and they could remove that nest without killing anyone. I know you make excuses like “wasps are mean” or “wasps like to sting” and what not, but just…don’t.
Yep - they keep populations of other insects in check too which a farmer or farmer-adjacent chap should appreciate. They never sting you without reason too. Wasp hate is pretty stupid.
They looked like European hornets. They are of limited pollination value. By the time their nests are large enough it’s well beyond pollination season and all do is eat fruit. If they were honey bees, absolutely try to save the hive.
As a beekeeper, I too love all pollinators. However if you always speak to others in such a condescending way, you’ll never get anyone willing to listen to you. Try a different tone!
I think about the working area you have as I hit doors / walls / tools with anything longer than 4 foot in my single garage !
Make a beam wrench (literally just a 🔧 shape out of OSB) gives you loads of control when flipping beams
absolute top craftsman, a pleasure to watch . I just love to see a guy knowing exactly what he's doing. Brilliant.
Carpentry (proper timber framing) is such a fascinating craft, very different to cabinet making.
I have an early 19th (?) table, or perhaps later 18th, where the maker used scarf joints to create the illusion of curving ends and feet on the legs. I've seen castle joints in tables, and draw-bored mortise and tenon joints in timber framed barns. Scale and tool size are the only differences between well-made furniture and cabinetry. Both trades call for similar understanding of wood.
@theeddorian Sounds cool, I'd love to see a picture!
@@BakerVS It is beautiful. I think it is southeast US, vernacular made, Federal influence. The legs taper through the scarf from 3/4 inch to 1/2 inch. They are far and away the smallest, most delicate scarf joints I've ever seen.
I have used this joint, used years ago for ship work but I was taught to angle the but ends more so there could be no potential movement once the wedges were driven. Last used this joint in frame of Grade II house. Still standing 30 years later and it was very old oak used and joint cut with hand tools. For ship work you had a mid joint of tennon and hollow so it did not twist.
Nice one Glyn, yeah you are correct in your techniques, did you do framing for a living or a little bit of everything? Thanks for the insight
@ Nope! I got involved in old boats and the mediaeval houses and then bought a 17thC house. Being poor my wife and I renovated it ourselves using skills acquired form other activities!
I always like to take the time to appreciate work that I am pleased with! Perhaps it's because very few other people will understand. Nice work as always. Cheers. Jim
Was it always like that or does it come with age? With respect!
To tighten up the ends of the joint. Use a hand saw. I have seen other craftsmen do that. No gaps will be left.
Wow, this was quite a find. Where do you even find oak beams that size? Forestry is about our second biggest industry here in New Zealand, but it's super hard finding anything other than radiata pine, and even with that, the best timber goes to China. I feel like I want to say that I'd like to do a project like that, but I don't have the space or fork lift, and I am 75 and have a serious back problem. I have the tools other than that but rarely get the chance to use them on large projects. My Menz Shed is making some timber picnic tables an seats (out of pine), but I usually do smaller projects. I shall definitely go back and watch the other videos in this series and am pleased to have found your channel. I winced a wee bit seeing you use that clamp as a cant hook and was expecting it break on you. I don't think I'd be brave enough to clear the central waste from those joints with a planer, as I am sure I'd go too far an mess up, I'd have used the router with a surfacing bit. I love the big spiral bits, but I also have a largish bit that has inserts the same as you'd find on a helical head, and it scares the life out of me the way it grabs. I'll look out for one like you were using seeing as it is apparently so smooth even on end grain.
BTW I am a retired toolmaker, design engineer who joined the local Menz Shed to carry on using machine tools, and discovered that I like working with wood - except for the fact that it moves to bloody much! I now have a decent wood shop at home, because I couldn't bare sharing tools with the animals at the Shed. Plus they are scary as all heck sometimes. Goodness knows how no one has had a serious accident!
Interesting. If you used a stepped scarf then the wedges would pull the joint tighter still. Maybe not necessary in this application though.
Yes - I've commented this too. This isn't a jupiter scarf (trait de jupiter) - it's closer to a regular splice with wedges and has a number of issues, as you identify the primary issue is the wedges are doing half the work they could be. There are many examples of this inferior scarf on the web. This is how to lay one out correctly th-cam.com/video/p7K6m6cH7os/w-d-xo.html
always impressive to watch working with massive beams.
From what I've seen this splice works best when you put a post with a through tenon at it's top through the middle of it as a pin. This keeps it from twisting since the tenon usually wants to go in line with the beam. Also since the load supporting use of the beam by putting the post under the scarf you aren't relying on the joint itself to bear a load in space.
Nice simplified trait de jupiter.
Great video - Thank goodness you have the farm equipment!!!!
Love the content here……. Skill level impressive…… video well edited
All in all well done
6:13 might want to look up the traditional Japanese "Kanawa tsugi" joint, which includes keying the ends to prevent misalignment once the wedge is in place.
Nice, whats the festool saw used please
We always had Bahco F type clamps for that type of work, also useful for rotating beams or 'taking a twist out', in the larger sizes.
Looks like it’s all coming together- plenty more mortises to come all along the length of the beam, how long does a sharpened chain last in the chain mortiser cutting into the green oak?
Love to see a carpenter using a folding rule😎. Most measurements are arbitrary as long as they are equal both ends
Nice job, and a hard one to get right !!!!, keep a troshing and take care
omg , based, made one of these for my barn on white pine. Oak is another uber level
Absolutely love all your videos and enjoy the blended subject matter. When you were doing the splice job on the beams and got to the stage of cutting the housings for the wedge - did you not consider keeping it all assembled and clamped and cutting the housing with your chain morticer?
I realise you are cracking out long hours farming and making sawdust as well as cranking out regular YT output (Thank you) - but have you ever watched Leo of the Sampson Boat Company who is rebuilding an old wooden yacht Tally Ho ( he has done some amazing woodwork - and in particular spliced joints in large keel timbers made of purple heart) and is 6 years into the project. Another one is Kris of Kris Harbour Natural building - a much more eclectic channel building hydro schemes, wind turbines and more recently timber framed buildings. Worth a scan during the winter if you find yourself at a loose end for a couple of milliseconds.👍🤣
A lovely win
ters day
Brilliant work and a real joy to watch and learn
There's a tool I could use, a big forklift, might have put it on my want list, even if the list is endless
Looks like some graft as gone into them fella, looks awesome. I remember black fingers when we was machining oak up😅
To keep it from twisting sideways, you could simulate a bridle joint. Make a tongue and groove type joint longitudinally down the scarf. Kind of like a keyway on a shaft. Route the grooves out then use around a 15x15mm square oak "tongue" make sure and rotate the grain on the key/tongue vertically so it won't shear. It would be nice and clean so it wouldn't show. Make sure there is some clearance in the groove, so the tongue doesn't swell and separate the joint.
Yep, this is seen in japanese scarfs often. A jupiter scarf (which this isn't) that is fitted well will resist more side load than is typical for a beam (in good timber frame design the only significant load on a beam should be vertical).
There is zero lateral loading it’s all straight down to the core of the earth
You say it is not a Jupiter scarfe.So What is? will you do a video of one? And post on YT.
Absolutely lovin it mate, awesome skills
Very nice work!
Thank you!
Nice router too. I have the same one, but mine is orange.
great video, thank you for this useful knowledge
when you finish building your large boat, how do you get it out of the basement through the 36 inch door
Like Gibbs, with chainsaw? But seriously , I had a worker that built a 20ft river sled in his basement during winter.
He took a fair bit of ribbing about how he was going to get it out..
That was utill he said he'd planned for an extension and renovation the following spring,one that included lifting the house to install insulated concrete basement walls in replacement for the damp MCU. And blowing out the front walls..
Surprised that you aren’t using a slick to clean up the joints. We call it a “Stossaxt” which is pretty descriptive😉
You are a master thank you for sharing.
Hey man great video what software do you use at the beginning
😮😮😮😮😮😮😮, they better have that here in the states or I’m gonna be mad. That is some of the slickest thing I’ve ever seen.
Very good
Fantastic work as always. Looking forward to the next episode. Have you heard of Guedelon? They are building a castle using traditional methods two and a half hours drive south of Paris. I’d recommend a visit 🌞
That is a sight.
Half a mil off, over 20 cm width, is 1/400th.
That is one quarter of a percent.
That is a pretty good tolerance, probably well within the precision limit of any powertool.
I’d not bother with screws, somehow they always manage to suck moisture in. Putting some pegs through will surely give it enough rigidity, this kind of joint by itself is already almost indestructible.
Brilliant work .
10 years framer here. The wedges aren't doing much, only pushing the joint tight by that hairline gap ~0.5mm. Which is enough friction to stop the joint pulling apart initially, but not really enough to counter the powers of Oak drying. There should be stepped, offset faces the full width of the wedges. This will likely peel open over time. Could need some metal fixings. Your joinery stuff is sick though. Quality stuff 🤙
I’m confused- are you saying that a scarp joint will not work in green oak, or that the geometry of this one is wrong? As far as I understand it, the toe is keyed in at maybe 5 degrees or so (so not purely friction but more like oblique compression). This joint has been made tight as can be, and I have seen lots of very older/cruder scarps holding good.
I make these joints but my wedges are made on a slant as opposed to a square
@@c4fishfood i'm saying that in this particular design the wedges are only effective up to that hairline gap, maybe 1mm max. there is one long flat face here, which is a basic scarf and would be fine if it was air dried joinery with glue. but the power of drying oak is a whole different beast. there should be a step in the middle (the width of the wedges) so that the full force of the wedges is pushing up against one face cut in each half of the scarf. he did do it properly in the video titled 'scarf jointing the ridge beam'. looks like a similar joint but the wedges are sooooooo much more effective.
@@jimmyreid6516 see his video titled 'scarf jointing the ridge beams'. much better design.
😊😊😊😊😊😊
We switched to replaceable blade router cutters way bac once we found it impossible to find a good sharpning service
Great stuff, thanks for sharing - I liked the planing trick, I'll remember that. Now, how can I justify that fork-lift ... ?
What make are those safety trainers?
Another solution for the wasp nest is ant powder, dust the opening of the nest with it, they drag the power into the nest and it kills everything in the nest. Works a treat, was shown this by pest control inspector.
Yes, or you could just not kill the wasps, and have a pro come in and rehome them. Wasps are pollinators.
Title 👍😂
The joints at the ends has to have zero gap between them for the joint to be strong. You can acieve that by making a cut through each joint when the joint is "loosely" assembled with a handsaw. Your joints looks absolutely beautiful, but it wont matter if they're not strong 😬 i like your videos, keep them coming 👍
Cheers bud, yeah I'll kerf them when final fit, no point now as they'll probably move between now and then as you know. They were close enough not to do owt with them at this stage
@@BradshawJoinery Thanks for setting my mind at ease 👍 you are a very skilled craftsman and i really enjoy your videos 🙂 Cheers from Denmark 🇩🇰🙂
Wonderful Mr Bradshaw, that joints the biz, I didn't notice this video till now so I'm binge watching some tonight. 👍🪚📐🔨😊
that bi you call the back put to front, exellent job it's not fine furniture
hello, do you have a company ? I'm interesting in buying some manufactured oak frame made by you...nice work
Please dont, the guy doesnt know what he's doing and shouldn't be making oak framing videos. He is a clearly a great joiner but unfortunatley being a good joiner doesnt make you a good oak framer as the requirements of the joint details are very different.
I'm surprised at how steep an angle you're able to get away with on the butt ends of that scarf.
Joint
Appreciation
Society
JAS memberships available
Try a couple of loose battens on the face of the scarf rather than a dowel or bolt.
Nice
No professional german (!) woodworker would do it like that, because there a two weak spots. Research first - build later. 😊
wow
Dowels over through bolts every time. For me anyway.
Why is it called a Jupiter Scarf?
👍😊
No bolts--it is Timber Framing
Is that oak? Massive beams! Absolutely amazing. Hailing from Scandinavia were all we have are puny baby trees since the lumber industry here is absolutely r*tarded.
Yes European Oak, normally from France or Germany,
This isn’t a jupiter scarf. A jupiter scarf is what you should be doing 😅. A jupiter scarf is hooked which allows the wedges to have full contact with both pieces, not in a trench like you’ve done here.
What you’ve done is fine but it is inferior to a jupiter scarf (aka trait de jupiter or as it’s known in the US, a hooked stop-splayed undersquinted scarf joint)
The problem at 4:00 is the primary issue with this kind of scarf. I’ve seen wedges split due to having uneven load on them
th-cam.com/video/p7K6m6cH7os/w-d-xo.html is how to lay out a jupiter scarf correctly
Watch hammering oak with a lump hammer, if it's green it's guaranteed to bruise and stain. If it's dry it can still stain if it gets wet (only needs the tiniest bit of iron on the surface to react)
To address the tapered/poor fit of the second scarf you could kerf cut them together by clamping/fixing the pieces together and running a saw down the gap, taking off any points that contact. Japanese saws are considerably better than western saws at this (using tension lets you put much more work into the cut) - this can be a lot of work though if you have a lot of correction to do
Obviously you can cut and fit
But there is no way i would trust such joints in wood
Saw kerf this ends and it will be absolutely perfect
What about a domino or two each side on that ‘shoulder’ ( the one I keep harping on about running a fine saw down 😜)
Then it should close up to perfect alignment with sort of a fox wedged tenon feel
Damn I’m a genius dude 😇 😂
Great work Mate, have a nice day look forward to next one !!!.😀😀👍👍📐🪚🪚📏📏.
Too bad you can't fit the timbers into a cnc machine. Then you wouldn't have to do ant work at all
Its how the big manufacturers do it for sure!
👊🫡
Sorry mate that is not a jupiter scarf !!! I can supply a correct drawing §§
How is that "vintage machinary"? There's no horses involved.
No it's not, ive got a clip of some steam baling machinery I will do a comparison video
Love the project, friend, but I have a complaint about you killing the wasps. They are pollinators, and a part-time farmer, or at least farmer-adjacent, you should appreciate the value of pollinators. A simple phone call to an expert and they could remove that nest without killing anyone. I know you make excuses like “wasps are mean” or “wasps like to sting” and what not, but just…don’t.
Yep - they keep populations of other insects in check too which a farmer or farmer-adjacent chap should appreciate. They never sting you without reason too. Wasp hate is pretty stupid.
Farmer? What do you produce….nuts?
They looked like European hornets. They are of limited pollination value. By the time their nests are large enough it’s well beyond pollination season and all do is eat fruit. If they were honey bees, absolutely try to save the hive.
As a beekeeper, I too love all pollinators. However if you always speak to others in such a condescending way, you’ll never get anyone willing to listen to you. Try a different tone!