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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Go figure we get a new one during the editing of this video. She has three excuses, one is mismatched historical records, one is that she merged with the female dragon she rides and that is why she is a female, and the last one and the one I like the most is that this servant is actually Dobrynya's wife Natasha who was stronger than him. She pulled an Artemis and switched with him because she was worried he would be too popular. Cute.
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I don't even need a good excuse for the gender bends if I like them, but it's fun hearing all the excuses in a row^^
Right? IMO gender bending in Fate has always been one of those things were it's fun but you really shouldn't take it TOO seriously. In the end, it's all in good fun, and I think this video is an extension of that
I’ll never forgive FGO for dropping the Fate/Extra hints that Sir Francis Drake is actually Queen Elizabeth I pretending to be Francis Drake. Queen Elizabeth was good friends with Francis Drake, and even knighted him personally (hence the ‘Sir’ title) making him a privateer, which was essentially a legal pirate. She used to board his ship frequently, and even sailed it at some point. After she contracted small pox, she received a scar across her face, and hardly exposed herself to the public ever again. She became a very reclusive person, but one way she used to travel was by impersonating Francis Drake and sailing his ship in order to move around without being noticed.
It’s a perfect excuse for making Sir Francis Drake a woman, because it’s just Queen Elizabeth I pretending to be him. Then FGO is like ‘nah, Drake is just a woman’
I smelled potential pretender servant right here
FGO never confirmed either way though. Yes, we met a human Drake, but we are not told if she is THE Drake, or the body double.
FGO actually did drop a hint to it in the Okeanos Singularity. There's a conversation about kingship and the weight of crowns when talking about Jason- And Francis Drake gets very uncomfortable and changes the subject quickly.
And they were both Shinji's servant
@@xAznSkyxx technically the Shinji Drake was a servant of was a young gamer boy. He was not the... disgusting bug from Stay Night.
Personally I think Da Vinci's excuse is in a tier of its own.
"Screw you, I'm the patriarch of the Renaissance. I can do whatever the fuck I want. In fact, you know what? I'm the matriarch of the Renaissance now!"
Thats just Da Vinci in a Nutshell, to be honest
"Screw it, i now gonna invent basically everything the humanity has gonna invent in the next 500 years and you cant do anything to stop me"
@@SapoWeonN300 Only one thing can stop Da Vinci's creative genius, and that is them getting to creative for what the world can support at that time. We all know if Da Vinci had access to modern materials, it would have been the next 5,000 years instead.
For me the best one is Da-vinci. Dude literally went "Fuck it" and became his waifu, and the worst thing is that it fits very well the overall lore because the Mona Lisa is one of the first things that comes to mind when you think of Da vinci
For me it was "Another Codex page, how exciting!"
Virtruvius cries in the corner
I thought Mona Lisa was Da Vinci painting himself as a girl.
Then FGO decided: Let's make him a waifu
Kagetora should be higher on this list. While dismissed by most historians, the possibility that Uesugi Kenshin was a female samurai has been around for a long time and has some (admittedly flimsy) historical evidence to back it up = en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uesugi_Kenshin#Female_Uesugi_Kenshin_theory
Still was cucked by Nobunaga
I believe Drak is same. Some references said Drake wore feminine stuff in some ocassion.
@@arahaitham123 I think in the Moon cell (CCC and after) timeline there are hints that Drake here is actually Queen Elizabeth who hijacked Francis's Saint graph.
@@crocidile90 yeah but considering that's never brought up again in any way by other fate media we can disregard that.
But CC **IS** her source material, so isnt the source material more credible?
Kama is technically a genderbend as well, but a great one. He was originally recorded in Indian mythology as a male god of love, but after he was incinerated by Shiva, he became an existence that was, and I quote, "something vague and hazy". He became genderless, in other words, able to take on either a male or a female form and still fit the role PERFECTLY.
So why is he portrayed as a hot Sakuraface, you ask? Well, all I can say about that is, you should read Heaven's Feel. Dark Sakura and Kama have VERY similar personalities, to say the least...
Kama was also influenced by Parvati being a pseudo-servant possessing Sakura
@@xylathoth
Parvati possessed Sakura and discarded all the ‘bad bits’ so she basically had a ‘pure’ Sakura vessel.
Kama, in order to spite Parvati, then possessed the leftover ‘bad bits’ because doing bad things while in a body that’s similar to Parvati is her way to mess with Parvati.
The power of spite wins again!
There was also an interlude that came out recently that showed off what a male Kama (and I guess by extension a male Dark Sakura) would like.
????? Dark Sakura is deranged but Kama is literally depressed, tired and doesn't trust people, just like Kamadeva was after his incineration. They made Kama a sakuraface because they knew it'd sell. Just like Muramasa, just like Ishtar, just like Ereshkigal. The main cast sells lmao. Pisspoor excuse and defense.
Also, you said Kama fits the role perfectly because they're "genderless" after Kamadeva's incineration, but everything about (fate) Kama is literally gendered. So it doesn't fit perfectly if it doesn't have at LEAST an androgynous look, or a male ascension, or anything that makes kama look like a "shapeshifter" (their artist have drawn multiple male!Kama's but the only time we see male kama is literally as an npc. They're not a girl because of "omg Kamadeva's form vague". It's because of fanservice.
Wait, the guy sitting in a bush throwing aphrodisiac magic at Parvati and Shiv is in fate? Lol. He shouldn't have been a fucking idiot. As far as I remember, the bet that brought about the situation didn't even involve him, and he could have noped out. But he decided it would be a good idea to fuck with the crazy short tempered pot head.
Nasu did not just handwave, he literally created entire light-novel length stories to excuse Artoria’s gender. I would bump Artoria and Mordred up primarily because Nasu put a LOT of effort into the backstory of the female Arthur and her “son”. And they put effort into keeping it consistent with Arthurian lore by ensuring Artoria is ALWAYS passing as a man, marrying Guenovere, and explaining all the complications the genderbent causes on the lore.
To be fair Arthurian lore is a mess and mostly consists of multiple writers creating what was essentially fan-fiction based on the original work, it kinda fits the spirit of the original lore because Arthurian lore is a collaborative work with multiple ideas and mindsets merged into one story
@@theheavenlyfb4071 True, it reminds me of how older tales had Gawain as the big gallant Knight in the Round Table, only for French writers to slander him all over and write their own OC, Lancelot, who could apparently defeat him like nothing. And of course yet another writer saw that and decided to slander Lancelot, creating the Guenivere story and Lancelot’s super saint of a son.
Yeah honestly I like how nasu did the genderbent for Arthur
"By ensuring Artoria is always passing as a man" is a thing I did not think I'd hear from someone who probably knows how much Artoria is used as a jack-off material even within the fate universe. And I'm not even talking about fanart.
She doesn't pass as male. She's actively put in situations that kind of defeat the purpose of making her, supposedly, pass as male.
@@Astorhorns I meant in her time period. Merlin and Kay were responsible for hiding the secret especifically.
To be fair, Artoria physically stopped aging after they pulled the sword at 15, so it'd be pretty easy to pull the "Feminine boy" card
except Saber Lily existed now and there's nothing boyish about her at all
@@hafizoktri3847 Her profile says that she is a version of Arthur that's still in training, having gone on adventures with her brothers throughout the country. I assume this means she didn't immediately claim the throne until she was ready, taking a kind of Saitama or Lelouch approach to her training by helping others but never revealing who she was, going by the nicknames they would give her
@@casuallectures2655 I mean it would be believable if Saber Lily isn't wearing the girliest outfit possible. at least in FSN and Camelot chapter they bothered to tell that Artoria wore boys clothes before she pulled the sword
@@hafizoktri3847 Aside from Merlin just flat out using magic to hide her identity during and maybe before her time as king, perhaps saber lily's design is just an exaggerated version of that period in Saber's life, similar to Saber Charlegmagne's?
@@hafizoktri3847 Lily doesn’t actually exist iirc. Lilies are just a younger and idealized versions of a servant, but weren’t actually a thing. That’s why Medea and Saber have lilies, but you wouldn’t call Setanta a Cú Lily since Setanta actually existed as a concept
Saber Lily herself just exists because Nasu and Take likes Saber’s alt skin design and decided to make a storyline about her.
Honestly I view Fran as more of a role swap that a gender bend. Like a “What if Victor made the bride before the groom?”
That's exactly what she's supposed to be
Agreed, I always saw it as Fate saying that Frankenstein created the female monster instead rather than the male that we're used to and treating it less than the actual novel but as a semi-real event.
Plus the original tale describes the monster as beautiful I'd say fran fits that
Honestly I think it should be at the top of the list.
@@ianL-S Yup. Classically beautiful but with weird eyes. Which…does fit Fran. She’s even quite intelligent (even when Mad Enhancement seals her ability to speak)
I have a strong appreciation for Caenis' design, since she acknowledges what happened to her and is justifiably angry she was summoned as her female self and not a man and feels very conflicted about it. It's also worth noting that in some of the stories, Caenis turned back into a woman upon death. I've had to explain this to my trans friends who latched onto this myth that Caenis wasn't transgender and Posideon was an "awesome boyfriend" for turning her into a man (there was a tumblr post about this) she was a woman so traumatized by what Posideon did to her she wished to become a man so such a thing would never happen to her again.
"she was a woman so traumatized by what Posideon did to her she wished to become a man so such a thing would never happen to her again." This is an unfortunately common situation in real life, too.
Caenis may not be transgender. Caeneus, however, is.
That depends on the myth its specifically stated in wiki if I remember right that her rape was another ovid (fuck him) inclusion and that your trans friends are right in a way
Quetzacoalt is also an alien, some kind of space parasite that came from (in fate lore) the meteor that killed the dinosaurs so altera isn't all that unique in this reguard.
The body she has is an host rather than her true form.
At least in the story this quetzalcoatl is a female but the entity possesed lots of men before that one since the meteor crashed
To clarify, the host she's using is one of her favorites.
@@Coramelimane Is this entity sentient in the way people are sentient?
@@spandanganguli6903 Yes they apparently are, Since it's the entity Quetzalcoatl that love Lucha Libre and not the host,
Quetzalcoatl is also technically a Pseudo-Servant.
Certified FGO moment
6:17 something worth mentioning that in life ooei did make paintings using her fathers name so she is also synonymous with Hokusai so when you summon one of them you get the other. This is depicted with her father daughter bond skill.
yeah, but she has a form where she is the saint graph, and has the name Katsuhika Hokusai. I'm pretty sure Hokusai Saber is actually Oui's saint graph, not Hokusai's, so it only really stands as a point in her Saber form and the Foreigner form is just Cthulhu shit
@@harrya9458 no her foreigner form is Hokusai both father and daughter. Saber/summer Hokusai is just ooei going through a youth phase since she thought that her family had a samurai lineage as well as having youthful aspirations of being a fairy while her father just sits back and watches the chaos.
Also summer Hokusai didn’t come from thin air she’s a byproduct of foreigner Hokusai converting her foreigner saint graph into a saber one due to summer urges.
To put it another way, Hokusai and Oei's art is so interrelated, and she worked at his studio for so long, that there is no way to tell the difference between Hokusai's art and Oei's, except for a small number bearing her signature.
Also, the adult Oei also wanted to be a Xian... of art. (Xian being translated as Fairy in Summer, and Sage in SIN.)
@@AusSP also one interesting note about Oei is that Hokusai apparently once stated that for all his experience, he can't beat Oei at her specialty.
When it comes to Kage, there is some speculation that the actual, real Kagetora was a female.
Most of the evidence boils down to Kagetora being said to be quite beautiful for a guy and the him having weird stomachaches/cramps that he would get monthly.
And IRL Kenshin was allowed to enter the woman's room without any stipulations
@@flare0114 POV: A real life King Arthur scenario
What I like about Artoria's case is that he's the boy king, a 15 year old ageless pseudo immortal woman as a king doesnt raise much questions when there are dragons and weird seductive axolotls
I think another bit i remember seeing was some spanish missionary went to japan and referenced kage with the word tia, which means aunt in spanish
@@daein908 the missionary did and Kenshin also only adopted their kids from their siblings
@@anadaere6861 weird seductive axolotls?
For Sir Francis Drake, I prefer the crackpot theory that she's actually Queen Elizabeth and Drake was just a cover identity for the Queen periodically running off on Pirate Adventures!tm
He doesn't actually exist. And yeah, she knighted her own pirate persona for the lulz.
I'm pretty sure knighting is something more public, sure they might have switched but that's. He can let her took his place but she still had to stay and run the country most of the time.
Francis Drake did exist wdym
@@minhtran7431 easy fix just have some rando that looks like her persona drake and knight them. She'd just pay them money to do nothing ( did knights get paid ?🤔)
@@minhtran7431 Rider is Captain Francis Drake.
Captain Francis Drake is both Francis Drake and Queen Elizabeth.
The reason for this is potentially connected to Rider being a chosen of The mysterois Wild Hunt. Lalter(Artoris Lancer Alter) is a probability vector where Artoria also becomes qualified.
Sima Yi possessing Reine actually makes sense. During a campaign against Zhuge Liang of Shu Han, he refused to fight a head on all or nothing confrontation until Zhuge Liang sent Sima Yi a womans dress to taunt him. This is basically a Haha from Sima Yi as possessing a woman who also has authority over Zhuge Liangs vessel as El Melloi II
Yeah it's like irl zhuge liang throwing the glove and fate sima yi catching it
that sounds like a fucking power move ngl
This is big brain
That's rather a cheap explanation. It was just mean Zhuge Liang was mocking Sima Yi for being a coward. This detail was probably make up by Luo Guanzhong though it's natural for fate to consider this canon,.
@@minhtran7431 Mean? Zhuge was *dying,* mind you. So he did whatever he could to get Sima off from the defensive on his deathbed. It's not mean nor ill-intended, it's simply because he has no choice.
God I remember when Van Gogh was announced. We all thought it was Willhelmina Van Gogh, Vincent's sister. All the apparent clues pointed to her....and then they swipped the rug from under our feet with the Greek nymph thing
And she still wound up being one of the most compelling stories to come out of a side story
Good thing about Hokusai is his daughter is confirmed irl to drew under her father's name, so they both answering the summon is plausible
Truthfully I'm glad that Caenis was presented as a woman in Fate. Sexy/badass design aside, Caenis turned into a man because of trauma and used that as a crutch to try and move on. (Which given that many of the greek gods were bi in some form... her wish wouldn't have lasted.) Where she only viewed being male as being strong, so having her come to terms with the fact that a woman can be strong as well is a good choice. As well, after the centaur incident, she did return to being a woman. Whether this was her spirit being a woman or just lived the rest of her life as a woman.
I never thought of it like that, but I like it. In one of her last bond lines, Caenis speaks in a much softer tone, presumably sounding like she did before the whole Poseidon incident. Despite claiming that her old self is dead, I always took her being summoned in her original female form to mean the old Caenis is still in there, deep down. She just suppresses it to hide her “weakness”.
Its the same problem with Mordred, she view being a woman as inheirently weak so she covered her face around other to be treated as male, if mordred didnt view being seen as male as better she wouldnt hate it when people see her a female, even artoria saw that she could only be king as a male so she also wore a helmet alot
The thing is, she/he did not, in fact, come to terms with it. Evidence to this is when her feminine side came out to converse with the Master, then the Master confronted Caenis after, the masculine side was like "If you talk about it anymore I'm going to kill you." So, no, she did not come to terms with it.
@@kusanagi-no-tachi5303 She does though in Olympus lol, says that by throwing away her female side Poseidon would win and have truly killed Caenis.
Also just reading a summary of some of Astolfo's adventures makes you realize that Fate's version is not that far off from how crazy the original was.
I mean the dude was a tree one time and even got better, how much crazier can you make him?
All of the Paladins of Charlemagne are completely off their rockers, really. Roland is... arguably CRAZIER than Astolfo.
@@Jfrost9101 I mean the dude went on a Naked Rampage when someone broke his heart, Idk how you top that.
@@kendiaz89 To be fair to Roland, he only went Naked Rampage levels of crazy because God drove him _entirely_ mad rather than regular mad. Saint John the Apostle personally tells this to Astolfo before they travel to the moon on Elijah's flying chariot pulled by red horses, so it's 100% canon.
Also, the reason that Astolfo was turned into a tree was because an evil fae queen kidnapped him to be her sex toy but she was a bitch so she dumped him after about two months and turned him into a tree so he couldn't tell anyone how much of a flaky twat she was. She had done this to _countless_ guys, too, turning them into trees, rocks, animals, etc.
He's also just as much of a super supportive bro in the stories as in Fate, too. He always tries to defeat evil to protect others without a second thought for himself and he actually cries when he sees that the half-naked, bestial, maniac caveman swinging a tree around like a club is actually his peer, cousin, and friend Roland, greatest of the Paladins.
For there have been theories that there was instead a “jill the ripper”, as jacks true gender was never known. Drake apparently sailed with queen Elizabeth, switching places with her every so often, until one day she receives a wound on her face and decided not to show her face to public anymore. So the scar on drakes face
Since I'm a Shuten enjoyer, I'd like to give more insight on why can Shuten be a female:
Shuten and Ibaraki both have shape-shifting ability, in Shuten original lore, after Shuten drank the sacred sake and went to his room to sleep, Raikou and fellas went in to kill him, in that moment they saw his true form which is a huge monster with different colored limps and multiple horns and eyes, while Ibaraki, as mentioned in the video, came back in female form to retrieve her arm back, which means their shape-shifting ability comes from lore, so being a male or female is totally up to them, also Shuten originally is Ibuki, since the lore of Shuten also stated that Shuten came from Mount Ibuki, which is the mountain that Orochi resides, and Ibuki being a god and a child of a great evil go can change gender freely like other gods in the game.
Lastly I would like to say that I would like a male Shuten and/or Ibuki in the game.
With Ibuki's interlude it's shown that she met Kintoki in her female form. Heian-kyo also shows her in her female form only as well, and characters always refer to Shuten with she/her pronouns, even if Shuten does shapeshift into the male form it doesn't actually seem like something she does a lot.
In the Nasuverse, Quetzalcoatl is actually an hive of alien pathogens that possessed multiple people in the past, and they were seen as a god due to the power they granted their hosts. The one we see in FGO (and the anime) is the “god” using one of their female bodies.
You should really read the whole thing of why kagetora might been a female irl, funnily enough i would say she is the unique servant that actually makes sense to be a genderbent.
I mean there are records from the era that Kagetora died of uterine cancer. Something that's a little hard for a male to do
@kagato3 VERY difficult for a male to die from uterine cancer. HMMMM
@Suesserto it's actually possible, if rare, sometimes hormonal imbalances during gestation can cause defects like, for example, a uterus on a male or a prostate on a female.
Beside that there could be chromosomal anomalies (aka. intersex)
i fuckin love ranmaru and specially her line about mori. she says with a "did you know?" face: yes mori nagayoshi is my 'sibling planet'. they were super barbaric but suddenly became serious and started building a civilization.
so somewhere out there, there's a futuristic city full of scientist mori. it's just too fuckin hilarious
Gudaguda has become too powerful. We cannot stop it. I simply pray for mercy now
Mori's are just saiyans
Holy shit that’s amazing
Scientist Mori would probably be like “Big, dangerous chemicals mixed make a boom, now let’s blow shit up!” or something and I honestly want that.
I thought Artoria was perceived as male because the Sword of Selection made her 'King' and since the King had to be male, then it caused people at the time to perceive her as male and people just overlooked how short she was and high pitched her voice was.
It also makes sense because Artoria's arc is that she sought to give up her humanity-including her feminity-in order to be the ideal King. It's by bonding with Shirou that she is allowed to be the girl that she couldn't be in her life.
Nope, ppl at that time don't allow women to be knight, let's alone King. The sword make her stop aging, so ppl just though "he" haven't went through puberty yet
@@tienthivut It's more of a psychological effect brought by the idea that "the king is a perfect being" so they wouldn't question if she is male or female. It made them ignore any kind of "discrepancy" by implying that she didn't need to hide anything, because any accusation thrown at her that would be seen as a way to discredit her claim to the throne would be ignored by the single fact that "the king is simply perfect and worthy of the throne". It's less about people not caring if she is female, and more like people seeing it as an impossibility.
I think that Saber Lily is from a timeline where she basically stopped trying to be a perfect king, but instead decided to become a perfect Artoria, which involved not caring about people whose asses she can kick thinking that women can't be kings.
@@lnsflare1 Saber Lily is explained as the naive Artoria when she held the pure wishes of helping her people without having experiences sacrifice. She is thus considered a type of imaginary or temporary servant that has a very tenuous connection to the Throne (since humanity as a whole remembers the King who was betrayed, not the sincere trainee who was only beginning her path.
In short, Lily is just a barely ever summoned variation of Saber.
@@tienthivut This, IIRC, Arthur was called a boy king at one point, so our modern idea of immortality with that just made her a 15 year old feminine boy who will not age
I don't think "mismatched historical records" really covers Artoria very well. Her gender was being hidden her entire life and I think only Merlin, Kay, Morgan, her father Uther, and her foster father Ector knew she was a female.
If I'm not mistaken her wife, Guinevere, knew too (which would make sense because you know)
Mordred also found out eventually.
@@BloodrealmX Desire to write Fanfic about how Mordred found out Intensifying!
Also, I'd presume Morgana knew. And I'd guess Belvedere did as well.
Artoria's characterisation from the FSN VN alone is too good to just have her be a bad genderbend
Fun fact: There's a theory that the Mona Lisa was actually Leo drawing what he thought he would look like as a woman, or at least drawing a female version of himself, which if true would make Da Vinci canon tier.
Another layer for Caenis' reason is that when Caenis died her soul was sent to Hades as a woman and that her body was that of a man. So when she is called as a Heroic Spirit it assigns her gender as a spirit (as a woman). Her soul (as a woman) begins to resurface the stronger the bond the master has with her. The Summoning system still assigns them the gender of either male or female but gives her a woman body because she was that reason. Caenis also comments on this when they are summoned because they lived as a man.
I think you need another tier for Nobu, Okita, Kag, etc. called "It's Gudaguda, logic goes there to die."
To be fair Artoria is a bit more believable because Merlin had told Ector to raise her like a man and so he did. When she pulled the sword and had stopped aging she hadn't really hit puberty yet.
Also there is Bedivere, who is a man that could have easily passed as a woman, So the excuse that Artoria is actually a man is a lot more believable when next to him.
My favorite is that Gawain can be used as the King's body double
Dude
There's Bedi
My man probably knows Artoria more than anyone but Kay and Merlin
It think the point you're making is that how she managed to hide her gender identity not why is she a woman. She's just a woman because waifu.
@@minhtran7431 Yeah that's the reason for literally everything lol. That isn't what people are talking about.
@@dudedude7846 Oh yeah, my bad
I played the Fate guessing game with a few friends and they all thought Bedivere was a young woman
There's at least 1 more servant (admitedly, he/she's new, though), who was genderbent - Dobrynya Nikitich. There's literally zero information why he was genderbent. And even bond-bio, while aknowledges that genderbending, leaves the reasoning open so far.
I heard from someone it is actually his wife, not him
@@SamGarcia nah, they just saw he had a wife and assumed it as such. They pulled the reasoning out of nowhere when the game literally just ignored the reason
@@krismarshall3803 But Nikitich's profile clearly says her being his wife is one of the 3 theories developped by the Chaldea staff. You can't say that they pulled it out of nowhere when it's litteraly in her in-game profile, though not confirmed nor rejected. Also Tunusgka's last scene with our summonable Dobrynya hitpoints that it is indeed his wife whom the actual Dobrynya asked to take care of their "child" (=Koyan)
Isn't Quetz excuse that she's a version of them when the bacteria/alien had possessed a female body and that's when she was recorded to throne? It's the same reason it's said they can be summoned as a male.
In a way, she is sort of a Pseudo-Servant who brings her own host.
@@camil3545 yeah that's pretty much what I thought, just wasn't 100% sure on it.
I mean kagetora/uesugi kenshin has a whole theory of being a woman so being a genderbend is not really that weird.
I would've put orion much higher especially since it's technically not a genderbend. It's a highjacked summoning which is a really unique thing
With Kagetora I don't even consider her a genderbent, because there are real life records that hint towards them actually being a woman.
I feel like Drake should be a bit higher since there are hints that she is actually Queen Elizabeth in disguise.
Kagetora should also be higher, not gonna bother elaborating since dozen other comments already addressed it.
Wait, she's elizabeth in fate lore?
where did that theory came from
If she is actually Elizabeth I in disguise I'd bump her up
@@klidge it is apparently alluded to in her fate extra profile, and Fgo Drake is a red head like Elizabeth (though stylized more as a hot pink) and suspiciously has a height measurement that matches Elizabeth's height (though to be fair, IRL Drake was only about 3 cm taller).
as much as I love this version, but were these hints ever developed into something meaningful? Extra was released quite a long time ago.
I find it hilarious how there are some genderbend excuses that have incredibly detailed stories like Jack being a child wraith amalgamation due to Jack's true identity never being discovered...and then there's "lol just female" excuses with the likes of Drake, Ushi, Nero, Raiko, and Altera. At least Frankenstein has the Bride of Frankenstein excuse.
Tbf for Raikou, Ushi Gozen was described as looking exactly like Yorimitsu, and Gozen means "Lady". So if an oni whose name means "Lady Ox" looks exactly like Yorimitsu, it's not hard to make the excuse that Raikou was a woman as well. At least they did a lot more with her genderbend than others with her backstory, probably the most out of any in terms of how integral it is to her as a character outside of Caenis and probably Oei.
I mean Altera explain pretty will with her identity being hidden and being relevant to her character
most other servants: somewhat of an explanation
Artoria: "yea I'm a girl but also a guy, I got clones, and my baby mama is my sister, you gonna do somethin about it?"
Well, Bunyan's actually female because she was created by the eldritch monstrosity known as Gudako.
Okita could be passed as gender bend because irl Okita was seen to be bishounen similar to astolfo
The Google Pic it shows up is wrong
No pics were taken except for Hijkata and Old Hajime
That means everyone who didn't have a picture of themselves taken can be a genderbend, oh my god.
You know... Nero might actually make some sense because he was a known crossdresser and exhibitionist. And Nero Bride even more-so because he is known to have married a freedman as his bride, wearing a veil and everything. Don't underestimate how cray-cray he was.
You would THINK that Fate Quetzalcóatl would have the snail conch symbol somewhere on her design considering that:
1. It's pretty much his trademark logo and everyone asociates it with him.
2. It's a symbol that represents the planet Venus, it even has the divine geometry!
But nope.
In story excuses are whatever.
Straight up, literally the only reason Arthur become Artoria was so that the game would sell better when it was first made. I also believe that's one of the biggest reasons as to why the series is as popular as it is today.
I'm into it
No, the reason is to avoid the VN being mistaken as a VN targeted for female audiences.
@@gilgameshlfx7006 yes, to sell to men, hence the "sell better when it was first made."
@@SXR123_YT If they intended to sell to men, they made Arturia half naked loli.
But they didn't.
@@SXR123_YT Plus fans actually waiting for this new VN comes out. Type-Moon didn't became popular because of Fate/Stay Night. They already famous as a doujin group before, thanks to Tsukihime. Fate/Stay Night is their first project after properly formed a company. Tsukihime quite literally the main reason for Fate/Stay Night get a good headstart.
I think I personally would have moved Jack up a tier but that's really just subjective
I'm surprised you didn't mention Enkidu as an honorable mention as well but it did feel like you were trying to keep this concise so no big, also technically not the same honorable mention as 'Stolfo
Jacques being genderbent by his vtuber sister (Ina) is a much better reason than the actual reason.
That is just saltiness speaking. He was taken over by an Outer God related to the demon they claimed he adored. And said God is both related to fertility AND actually in-lore known for gender bending people (this is not Fate being Fate). They found the perfect excuse to do so.
@@lenleon3699 an excuse to why they wont do jacques male...
@@dramaturgy845 I mean, do you want the male version? He is literally just a better looking Gilles de Rais Saber. If we want cool looking make knights we already got more than enough with not just the Knights of the Round but now even Charlemagne and Roland. Personally I would love to see Richard the Lionheart far more than make yet another de Molay, especially since the version Mobile got is far more creative than Arcade’s “I was betrayed thus I hate everyone” revenge plot.
@@lenleon3699 ofc i want him
@@dramaturgy845 Eh, I guess everyone has their tastes. Personally I found his design unispired (and why the heck did they added a bar code on him).
There's real historians that think there's at least some evidence that Uesugi Kenshin was a woman.
all credit to wikipedia and the respective scources regarding dioscuri: In translations of comedies by Plautus, women generally swear by Castor, and men by Pollux; this is exemplified by the slave-woman character Staphyla in A Pot of Gold (act i, ll. 67-71) where she swears by Castor in line 67, then the negative prefix in line 71 denotes a refutation against swearing by Pollux
scratching the bottom of the barrel but its sumtin
I agree with the placement of Da Vinci, because it works amazingly both as a meta and narrative excuse.
Also there was a story about Astolfo literally banging his way across France and I feel like the joke there is that THIS, a dude in a miniskirt, is the guy who managed that.
I think that happened _before_ Roland went bonkers, so maybe he hadn't started really committing to the crossdress yet. The other hypothesis being that you're right and _he totally did,_ and it's just the bows in his hair that he added at that point (he says specifically about the bows that he wears them as a proof of friendship with Roland).
I read on the wiki that there is an actual theory on Kagetora being a female.
I dont think being comedic gag or being alien solely (in Altera case) is good reason. I mean just because they are important, people could just dismiss their real gender? Not to mention gender equality isnt really big thing in the past.
That's why Artotia hide her gender does make most sense. Kagetora & Drake are male who known to wore feminine cloth so it kinda make sense if they're secretly women.
For Kagetora historian have many proof she was actually a woman IRL for ushi she Always represented very androginous in illustration (and I think she is also played by a woman in theatre)
Even Kamachi making Odin a girl made sense in A certain Magical Index New Testament.
Odin was a god of magic deception, betrayal and more, who could shapeshift. So actually being a girl while making everyone think your a guy, is also... perfectly in line with Odin's personality
There was a reason him and loki got along
man, coming back to this video after becoming familiar with FGO is honestly great, makes me appreciate the writing way more, thanks for this great breakdown man!
1:33- you forgot that according to Fate/Extra lore Drake was also one of Queen Elizabeth handmaiden and body double.
Francis drake is female cause its queen Elizabeth. In a novel written long ago, before francis drake took sail across the globe, queen elizabeth took his place. The queen got a scar on her face from a surgery and could no longer go out in public. So Francis drake took her place as queen and she him. They were nice enough to leave a scar on the fate version of francis drake to further support this reason. The scar is historically correct, her switching places with drake just before his expedition is just a literary creation.
1:22 While I agree it's just a switcheroo, I actually really don't mind this genderbend. Frankenstein (the human obviously) was portrayed in the novel as a complete egomaniac, so it kind of takes his ego to the next level when, in Fate, he created the female monster first, not only in an attempt to recreate Eve (defying God's gift of creation), but actually believing that him making a child with Eve would birth Adam (another God creation AND the ego that makes him think he's cool enough he could ever produce someone as pure as the first man created by God). I'm not too familiar with how the rest of the story plays out in Fate (like whether after the rejection Fran meets with the blind man in the woods, kills Frankenstein's family overtime, chases Frankenstein to the North Pole, etc.), but I do like how the story makes Frankenstein to be an even bigger prick than he already was (which is saying something).
In the original Fate/EXTRA game, there were implications that the 'Francis Drake' that Shinji summoned was actually Queen Elizabeth I in disguise.
In researching Drake, Hakuno comes across a story where Queen Elizabeth was unable to go out in public due to receiving a scar on her face and traded places with Sir Francis Drake right before he set out on his circumnavigation of the globe.
In EXTRA, in Fate/Requiem, and in a few other places, Drake's bios and acquaintances in life insist that the Drake of Human History was a man. So, it's less that Drake's men were too respectful to call her a woman, and more that they didn't want to point out that the captain was *the Queen of England in disguise*, because she was a damn good captain.
Notice how the ones with the flimsiest excuses are from early Fate works.
Honestly, I feel that Pollux's is one of the weakest, since it's an out of universe reason, whereas I feel that Fran's is one of the strongest, since it's just a switcheroo and pretty believable.
When I was talking to a friend of mine who doesn't know much about fate, I showed them Dioscuri and talked about their myth compared to the fate version
They said that they could've possibly changed the gender of one of them to make their design more interesting, since if they were kept the same then they'd look identical (which is the point if they're identical twins, but I can understand why they'd want to make one female from a character design perspective)
Still a flimsy excuse if it was the case but I like it to an extent
2:48 to that, i will only share the same piece of information i say to everyone about this: in the OG FSN, Emiya Archer had the largest chest size out of the entire cast, including the women. with that in mind, the idea of somehow hiding Mama Raikou's assets isn't too far fetched.
Also on top of that, she is 5'7" which, given the average height of Japanese people more than a thousand years ago, made her taller than most of the guys then.
I mean that's not a surprise at all, Archer's Back was a more compelling character than Sakura's entire part of the story with the exceptions of Kirei and Illya, so of course Archer's Chest would be significant in some major way too. (Least biased Sakura disliker)
@@anusaukko6792 and with the recent lore development in Fate/Samurai Remnant, appears that Mama was a late bloomer, and her last growth spurt hit like a 20 car pileup.
Red Hare was never a genderbend. People just seem to think he was a mare without any real source for some reason.
There's also A LOT of real circumstancial evidence that Kagetora had been a female the whole time. One of them being that she had "stomach ache" around the same time every month, or that spanish monks called her "Tía" (aunt) of one of Kagetora's nephews, or that one really trusted doctor at the time diagnosed her death as womb cancer.
Red Hare’s fusion is because of a specific line that describes Lubu and the horse’s relationship “the horse and man are one”
And also, he was never a mare, or his (real life) gender was never adressed in official sources at all.
@@saxor96 I am 80% sure FGO never actually implies Red Hare was female
@@hexbug9737 Yeah. What I'm saying is the Fandom keeps saying Red hare is a genderbend when he never was female.
@@saxor96 Honestly just let them it's the closest we will ever get to an inch of approaching female to male genderbends
@@hexbug9737 I mean, it's the same as if everyone thought Iskandar was a female-to-male Genderbend in Fate. Doesn't make it real nor close, just a mistake.
There are two servants that I know of that have multiple possible explanations. You've already talked about Astolfo, but in Fate Extella Link, the final boss, who is the actual Charles the Great, directly acknowledges that Astolfo never looked that way during his reign. This ties with Charles' motive, which is to exist without the fictional Charlemagne's influence. With Astolfo's own knowledge of how events played out, it's implied he's the result of the Astolfo of History and the Astolfo of fiction fused by the grails/moon cell. A much more recent example is Dobrynya Nikitich, who has three possible reasons: either his relationship with his wife (who has giant's blood) influenced his saint graph, bathing in the blood of the dragons he killed had adverse effects or the heroic spirit is actually his wife.
If we're acknowledging real Charlemagne and fictional Charlemagne, then of course Astolfo wouldn't have looked like that during his real reign _because Astolfo is fictional in real life._ Also, _all_ Servants are mixes of fact and fiction in-universe.
Can you do the Sakura Five? All of them are named after flowers so far:
Meltryllis/Meltlilith is named after the Amaryllis flower (or the Lilies if you prefer Meltlilith over Meltryllis)
Passionlip is named after the Passiflora (Passion flower) and the Tulip flower
Kingprotea is named after the Kingprotea flower
Violet is nanmed after the Violet flower
Kazuradrop is named after the The Utsubo-Kazura (also known as nepenthes) is a flesh-eating flower that is (greenish) yellow in color (not all of them). The Victreebel evolution line (or the Utsubot line in Japan) is based on that very flower and the Snowdrop flower
This is such a niche video that aligns with what I feel so subbed just for the title
I swear that francis drake is the queen Elizabeth i don't remember were i read that to xb , and kagetora have a lots of hints of being woman irl , great vid as always cheers
Most theories between fate extra and fate grand order states the same
It's not drake, it's just queen elizabeth I pretending to be el draque
But sadly fgo has a problem adding more lore into their characters, it's okay to add some mistery since we can't guess their true names anymore(that was one of my favourite parts back then), they just throw it to our face now for 99% of the cases. but then after that they seem to forget those servants exist and move on to add new ones in order to repeat the same process time after time
Good excuse or not, I'm happy some servants did get genderbent. Ushi and mordred are high on my waifu list. Im sure I still would have liked them as males but I wouldn't be simping for them. Heck, the reason that pushed me over the edge so long ago for downloading fgo was that I saw a raikou spotlight for the onigashima event. Great video as always klidge, I love your unique video topics on fate!
I’d say Da Vince’s excuse is bad. There is no evidence that the real one believed the Mona Lisa was the most beautiful woman, or that he even found women attractive. It is commonly thought that he was gay and maybe less than interested in the female body so I doubt that he would want to be reborn as such.
Out of all the genderbends, I feel sorry for Caenis the most.
Which ironically, she's the most historically canon out of all genderbends
@@XynRemained it's not a genderbent lmao. Caeneus was, *ORIGINALLY* a woman, not a man. And Kagetora is right there btw.
@@Astorhorns er, isn't that what i meant? Precisely because she was originally a woman, and fgo her lore is all about her wish to be a man, it's accurate with real lore.
And tbf, kagetora is technically still theory (it's widely accepted in japan tho).
@@XynRemained you're not genderbending a character if they are/were already the gender they are in game. It is not what you said.
@@Astorhorns well if you're going really technical then, she's in condition of pre-canon genderbend, but then a lot of these "genderbend" characters aren't really genderbend.
Going by your logic then kagetora doesn't count genderbender as she's theoretically is woman from beginning.
Also, read my first comment really carefully, and try to digest what i meant.
0:50 to be fair “among men there is lu bu” “among horses there is red hare”. Steed emulating the rider.
And he was never a mare in real life.
@@saxor96 not speaking on red hares sex only why red hate emulates lu bu so deeply.
@@lunerblade13 Yeah, that's true. It's an NP and everything.
You missed the fact that Kagetora’s genderbend does actually have some historical basis. Check out the real one’s wiki. There’s an entire section dedicated to the theory that he was a girl, and the argument is pretty interested.
I think Artoria deserves better for the sheer amount of backstory to support it she has, and how it actually has effect on her character.
Kagetora reason in fate is kinda dumb. And you look at real life kagetora and see that there are legit theories he was actually a woman, due to being possible that his reason of death was womb cancer. Also he never produced any heirs.
Kagetora is one of the only characters that are gender bend that actually make sense, because there is some historical backing. I like to think kagetora is just liying and not admiting that she actually was a woman the whole because she was conditioned into being a man. It is just a head canon but it makes more sense to me
They really never adress why the gender confusion of Kagetora in fate. The historical plausibility is a cherry on top that they never aknowledge in game for some reason.
Tbh Fate verse historians are pretty bad, even if we exclude magic stuff,
@@namoma4922 Oddly, it is better _if_ you include the magic stuff, as they studied real world occultism far better than most fictional series.
@@nevisysbryd7450 ah but i meant in unniverse historian, not the writters
@@namoma4922 Ah
1:50 also from what I have heard there is real life speculation if uesugi kenshin actually being a female.
I do love the fact that they’ve just started having characters who are trans, even though the writers may not use that turn. Da Vinci is my absolute favourite for this, going “I’m gonna look like my idea of beauty cos it makes me happy”. Also, her line that “the desire to become a beautiful girl may one day become the norm” is so good, Da Vinci said trans rights!
fun fat about kagetora, some historian believe she WAS actually a she, as her medical problems seems to not be male problems but having issue with her menstrual cycle, which is one the reasons she might of died on the toilet
I wasn't expecting for this vid!
You're doing great, Klidge! ^~^
I've never seen or played a Fate, but I recognize most of these characters from doujins. Is this the true power of Fate?
Yes.
Drake was supposed to be queen Elizabeth using her imperial privilege to disguise herself as Drake and there are good odds this remain the case, like Cu caster being Odin.
Need a fate spinoff where they are all their original gender.
Personally, I'd put Artoria at Good Excuse (and Mordred by extension). However, it's down entirely to all the Fate lore that has been built up around her genderbend, why it is and how it affected her. Without all the added lore over the years, I'd rank her lower. And with male Arthur being in a similar situation to female Musashi, it's easier to get behind female Artoria being historical in the Fate timeline while male Arthur might be historical in our timeline.
But I'm honestly fine with the original meta reasoning too: that Shirou was male so a female servant helped balance the cast/hero. If the franchise didn't explode into what it is now, that would have always been enough of an excuse, in my opinion.
Da Vinci is definitely my favorite excuse though. The "I'm the universal genius; I can and will do what I want" of his genderbend is fantastic characterization.
I approve. Caenis is definitely the best because of their story and she/they are one I want to summon so bad when they arrive
Gareth was also known to have had "beautiful hands like a maiden", plus he was rather a pretty looking dude. So that's likely way he was genderbent in Fate
Okita Souji is also historically known to have looked like a very beautiful and good-looking dude
I’m into it
@@klidge Yeah a lot of characters have different varying reasons for being genderbent. But for Gareth and Okita it makes sense at least, and could easily be handwaved into them being female
Orion...well....I honestly find HIS situation to be simultaneously hilarious as well as terrifying. Talk about having a clingy lover
@@klidge Hijikata also looked absolutely dapper, which is pretty funny with how he looks in fate
Also funny how Jojo's author looks close to IRL Hijikata
Actually Kay called Gareth Beaumains because of Gareth's noble birth when he worked as a kitchen boy (bc if you were a peasant your hands were scarred).
I like Molay’s genderbend a lot. We already have a male version for the purists, and if there’s any being I could believe could change their host’s gender, it’s a lovecraftian god. Shub Niggurath isn’t just female, she’s a fertility goddess, so I’m not surprised her host’s gender would be important to her.
Actually for Okita’s excuse during his lifetime when he had TB most people saw him as beautiful,not to mention that Okita is often played by a woman dressed as a male in movies about him.
Then for Kama my memory recalls the fact that in mythology he’s the god of love and since love is often associated with females this might’ve been the reason why he was gender bent
This is from tv tropes in case you need the source
When Kama got destroyed by Shiva, he became formless, genderless. So he is capable of switching gender whenever he so pleases.
Kama is gender bent because he is doing the same as several divine spirits and possessing a vessel to be able to be summoned, kama choose Sakura to mess with Parvati who also choose her, they just choose her at different universes, Kama choose one that was closer to heaven's feel and Parvati one closer to dunno dinner with the emiya family?
Glad to see you too are a Gareth enjoyer. Mine is personally only at 80 because Grails are a bit on the low side.
me who didn't know that Jing ke was a genderbend : eh? ; v ;
Gareth is so fucking cute that I dont care she's a Genderbent
Also Poor Jacques
I agree with this statement
Saber doesn't get enough credit here. Mordred, sure, "homunculus clone rape baby" is rather ridiculous. But Saber herself? Her excuse for being genderbent is really part of her character, no? Like, the Banquet of Kings in Fate/Zero. Artoria has always been forced to be The King, and not human. And so being female was overlooked. She took a wife, and acted as a male. It's not just that historical records were wrong, it's that for all intents of purposes, she *was* male. She had to be, otherwise she couldn't be king. Fate/stay night is the first time she can really be female and act as such. Even in Zero, Irisviel has Saber act as her knight, and dress in a male suit.
Yeah, she's a bit obsessed with "I must be the perfect king, and I believe this is the stuff kings must do" and that's a really interesting spin.
Suprised to not see enkidu here! I think my favorite genderbent is nobunaga just cause of how hilarious it is
Enkidu isn't in the video because Enkidu has no actual gender. Enkidu only looks feminine because they took the form of the divine prostitute who took them in
@@Pridam no yeah i know! It was just weird that he mentioned astolfo and d'eon when they are kinda similar in a way thats all. As in they look feminine and are gender neutral, or male in astolfos case
@@Thenia707 Ah I see what you mean! To be fair, there's a huge list of servants regarding genderbent and the like, so I can give him a pass
@@Pridam yeah it's not that big of a deal I was just suprised xD
4:05 It took me a second to realize which elder god you were talking about because I usually hear a nsfw pronunciation. I’m actually impressed some said that in safe manner. Also I’m not sure if fgo classified Cthulhu as an elder god cause he’s really not. He’s more of an underling like a priest or Mushu from Mulan.
Although I imagine FGO shortens it quite a bit, the backstory behind Altera and the Alien race she comes from is wild, and fully elborated on in Fate Extella. I think it is extra interesting that this alien race comes up as one of the reasons Atlantis exists in the Olympus lostbelt and one of the entire reasons the british Lostbelt exists. But I imagine that went over most people's heads because of how difficult it could be to differentiate between lostbelt lore and *fate-ified* real history lore.
We've reached peak Fate content.
In conclusion, Artoria is the best developed excuse. Jack is the best realistic excuse. Caenis is not even an excuse as he/she is originally biologically female.
Someone: "But wasn't Shuten-Doji a male oni in the folklore?"
Me: "I get Aoi Yuki as a petite drunk ASMR oni, constantly threatening to crush me down to my bones and drink me up. I don't give a FUCK about accuracy to the folklore."
Astolfo gets his own section 😂😂
Idk if anyone mentioned this, but the voice actor for Jacques de Molay is Shiki Aoki. A transmale voice actor who has came out in 2020, and even said they will not transition, due to not wanting to change there voice, (They also voice and sing a idolmaster character as more info to there background.) So in a way they are still voice by a male, and with the whole joking they do about the male being first I feel adds another layer to it oddly enough.
okita was a funny one if remember... wasn't she suppose to be cause the mage that was suppose to have Okita got shafted and her friend dropped his Light Novel in the circle and he took the appearance of the main Heroine.