I love this episode and I love getting more of Spike’s backstory. I understand Robin wanting revenge. I love that Spike just told him how it is and how it was. Giles let me down this episode. He forgave Angel for everything but was unwilling to give Spike a chance even after Buffy asked him to. I think Giles was a little jealous of the relationship between Buffy and Spike. I do love that Robin wanting revenge is actually what cured Spike of his conditioning by The First. I’m not ashamed that I’m team Spike!
It never made sense to me either. How everyone forgives Angel so easily but not Spike. Even Faith people forgave. Faith had a soul when she did all the horrendous things she did. And when you look at Angel as a human and Spike is a human is like night and day. Team Spike all the way!
@@ezmarelazela5008 Yeah especially since Angel was involuntarily "cursed" with a soul.... but Spike went off and voluntarily sought it, after trials / torture too (not that having the soul wasn't torture enough).
I understand Wood's anger, but Giles has put Buffy in charge, going as far to say she is The General and she is what he was counting on to win. I love Giles, but his fear of Buffy growing up (even though that was his intention in leaving during S6) led him to listening to Wood, who had revenge on his mind. Giles going against Buffy causes in-fighting, which is what The First wants, so the fact that both Giles and Wood go behind her back don't do their arguments any favors. Giles back in _First Date_ reminded the group not to get sidetracked, which is what he's allowing himself to do, because this whole thing is about Wood's revenge. Buffy closing the door on Giles at the end is her calling him out on his hypocricy, over telling her before leaving town, "[he] taught [her] all [she] needs to know," only to come back and tell her, "[she] needs to learn," as well as teaching him the lesson he already taught Buffy, all be because he's having trouble with her growing up. Buffy says, "I think you've taught me everything l need to know" before closing the door on him is a lesson for Giles when he assumed he should be teaching her. Buffy's personalities each season: S1-3: High school. S4: College. S5: Half and half aka one foot still in childhood while also learning to grow up S6: Depression and the failure of growing up. S7 Adulthood. Giles having a hard time accepting Buffy being a grown up, combined with not liking Spike, and Buffy's choices concerning Spike, allows him to feel in the right for his actions in this episode when he's really unconsciously doing The First's work by following the lead of Wood, who didn't tell anyone he got the name of his mother's killer through The First, who wants the in-fighting. Giles and Wood are unintentional agents of The First in this episode. Not liking Spike and knowing he's a threat doesn't mean he can't be de-triggered. I think the same result as how Spike got detriggered in the show could have happenned if Spike and Buffy talked alone after the prokaryote stone came out. Giles interrogating Spike wasn't going to make him cooperative. He knows Giles hates him. So of course he isn't going to talk about his mother to Giles. He would have done so to Buffy, though. How Giles chose to approach the situation and contradict himself, showed his issues of having trouble letting Buffy go more than it showed killing Spike was necessary. If killing Spike was necessary, he wouldn't have been detriggered. I understand Wood wanting vengeance, but wanting it is blinding him to why The First is telling him this information to begin with. Wood becomes The First's agent in this episode, and Giles due to his issues becomes a secondary agent of The First, as well.
I was told that by a few other people; each to their own, but I really love this one. Actually, I'm not sure I have a favourite; I think I just have favourite moments, or even periods, of various seasons. Despite most people seemingly ranking it as their lowest, I think the season I'd most want to watch again is S1, lol. Whether that makes it my favourite, I’m not sure, but I do have a soft spot for that season for some reason. 🤷♂️
Lies My Parents Told Me is one of the best episodes from any Season of the show. Brilliant start in NYC back in 1977 with Spike and Wood's mother fighting it out in Central Park. Once the Prokaroyte Stone is entered into Spikes body Giles believes they will find the Trigger for Spike. Of course this event is traumatic for Spike where we see flashbacks to how he sired his own mother. Wood and Giles conspire to kill Spike but must keep Buffy out of the way, as she would stop this. Once Wood has Spike in his house we see him tooling up to kill Spike. Once again he plays the Trigger song and we are taken back to him and his mother this time very disturbing with incestuous undertones, as the Demon is within his mother is unleashed. Spike confronts Wood about his own mother, who Spike claims didn't love him enough as she was a Slayer and that was her priority. When Giles and Buffy have the conversation in the graveyard, we can see Buffy now say if she had to she would kill Dawn to save the World. We can see how Buffy is just focused on The War ahead. When she realises Giles has stalled her she races to Woods house to find Spike outside. Spike spares Woods life, and Buffy has a very powerful conversation with Woods where she tells him straight out that if Spike decides to kill him, she will not stop him. One of the best episodes of S7 by far.
Around 39 minutes in, when you said you didn't have time (to discuss?), that made my brain think on a tangent about how certain movies, although great in ways, will require a lot of time afterwards to mentally process them, etc. That got me thinking about (and suggesting to you if you want!) to watch and hopefully react to (again, if you'd like of course) these two: The Korean version of "Miracle in Cell No. 7", and the Turkish version of "Miracle in Cell No. 7." I imagine the order of watching might matter, and I happened to see first the Korean and then the Turkish version, and I think I indeed preferred that order (but of course we can't be sure without wiping our memory and trying them in reverse, lol). The VERY interesting thing is... so, those two movies DO have the same major plot / themes with some vital differences... but I was particularly fascinated by how DIFFERENT my own two reactions to each were! If you see one or both of them, we can discuss and compare haha ;)
Right?! Feels weird. It's been about 3 years since I started. FWIW, I actually don't get to the end, well, at least not for reactions - there's no finale reaction. ☹️ I failed to press record (I know 🤦♂️). I did do a rewatch. I know that can't replace a 'first time' reaction, but it's something at least, even if it's crap, lol. I'll post a link to it with E21's reaction.
@@jaypeakay5864 Yes please post it- I know 2nd time reactions aren't the same but they are something; I know from both personal experience and watching the very few "subsequent" reactions to certain things others have posted :)
It's understandable you were stuck on the Buffy/Nikki/Wood thing. Buffy should have known. She has shown a big interest in getting to know about previous slayers and here she has the son of one right in front of her and she doesnt drill him about it. By his age, she could have figured out by herself that Nikki could have been a contender. It's bad writing. Writing for the story only and forgetting the characters. Happens a lot in BtVS.
Buffy at least has an in-universe excuse to not be aware. She's dealing with like 100 things at once, so her focus would be split. Looking into Wood's backstory and realizing he would have a personal vendetta with Spike wouldn't be a high priority with her, especially given the likelihood of all of them being together would be pretty low (Nikki died in NY.). Also, even the key players didn't realize until The First/circumstances made them aware.
@@CJ77777 You're comparing Giles, a studious person with tons of information and a watcher's background, to Buffy, a non-studious person who is leading and feeding a group of girls. taking care of Spike, and actively patrolling while holding a job and prepping and giving speeches, lol. Again, the main players didn't even know until circumstances allowed them to know. I'm just saying it's not really a Buffy issue that she missed the possible connection. You can have an issue with the writing of it.
Unlike most people, this episode makes me like Spike even less... I feel really bad for Wood. Even more cause he's actually right. But well, the show needed to keep Spike for the finale... I also feel Buffy is being really unfair to Giles. He's killed someone so she wouldn't have to, he understands the importance of the mission perfectly well. Have you watched the rest of Angel on your own?
Jesus. I'd forgotten he'd killed Ben. I don't know how he didn't bring that up in that final scene now. 🤔 The last Angel episode I watched was S4, E1. I just didn't have time to watch more. There wasn't any urgency once I'd finished Buffy, and I still have it in my mind somewhere that I'll miss Buffy so much that I may want to react to the rest of Angel. I probably won't, but I'd like to keep it as an option for a little while longer.
I love this episode and I love getting more of Spike’s backstory. I understand Robin wanting revenge. I love that Spike just told him how it is and how it was. Giles let me down this episode. He forgave Angel for everything but was unwilling to give Spike a chance even after Buffy asked him to. I think Giles was a little jealous of the relationship between Buffy and Spike. I do love that Robin wanting revenge is actually what cured Spike of his conditioning by The First. I’m not ashamed that I’m team Spike!
It never made sense to me either. How everyone forgives Angel so easily but not Spike. Even Faith people forgave. Faith had a soul when she did all the horrendous things she did. And when you look at Angel as a human and Spike is a human is like night and day. Team Spike all the way!
Definitly Team Spike. Always. 😊
@@ezmarelazela5008 Yeah especially since Angel was involuntarily "cursed" with a soul.... but Spike went off and voluntarily sought it, after trials / torture too (not that having the soul wasn't torture enough).
I understand Wood's anger, but Giles has put Buffy in charge, going as far to say she is The General and she is what he was counting on to win. I love Giles, but his fear of Buffy growing up (even though that was his intention in leaving during S6) led him to listening to Wood, who had revenge on his mind. Giles going against Buffy causes in-fighting, which is what The First wants, so the fact that both Giles and Wood go behind her back don't do their arguments any favors. Giles back in _First Date_ reminded the group not to get sidetracked, which is what he's allowing himself to do, because this whole thing is about Wood's revenge. Buffy closing the door on Giles at the end is her calling him out on his hypocricy, over telling her before leaving town, "[he] taught [her] all [she] needs to know," only to come back and tell her, "[she] needs to learn," as well as teaching him the lesson he already taught Buffy, all be because he's having trouble with her growing up. Buffy says, "I think you've taught me everything l need to know" before closing the door on him is a lesson for Giles when he assumed he should be teaching her.
Buffy's personalities each season:
S1-3: High school.
S4: College.
S5: Half and half aka one foot still in childhood while also learning to grow up
S6: Depression and the failure of growing up.
S7 Adulthood.
Giles having a hard time accepting Buffy being a grown up, combined with not liking Spike, and Buffy's choices concerning Spike, allows him to feel in the right for his actions in this episode when he's really unconsciously doing The First's work by following the lead of Wood, who didn't tell anyone he got the name of his mother's killer through The First, who wants the in-fighting. Giles and Wood are unintentional agents of The First in this episode.
Not liking Spike and knowing he's a threat doesn't mean he can't be de-triggered. I think the same result as how Spike got detriggered in the show could have happenned if Spike and Buffy talked alone after the prokaryote stone came out. Giles interrogating Spike wasn't going to make him cooperative. He knows Giles hates him. So of course he isn't going to talk about his mother to Giles. He would have done so to Buffy, though. How Giles chose to approach the situation and contradict himself, showed his issues of having trouble letting Buffy go more than it showed killing Spike was necessary. If killing Spike was necessary, he wouldn't have been detriggered.
I understand Wood wanting vengeance, but wanting it is blinding him to why The First is telling him this information to begin with. Wood becomes The First's agent in this episode, and Giles due to his issues becomes a secondary agent of The First, as well.
i'm glad that you're loving the season. this was actually ranked very low back when it came out, but it is still one of my fave seasons.
I was told that by a few other people; each to their own, but I really love this one. Actually, I'm not sure I have a favourite; I think I just have favourite moments, or even periods, of various seasons. Despite most people seemingly ranking it as their lowest, I think the season I'd most want to watch again is S1, lol. Whether that makes it my favourite, I’m not sure, but I do have a soft spot for that season for some reason. 🤷♂️
Lies My Parents Told Me is one of the best episodes from any Season of the show. Brilliant start in NYC back in 1977 with Spike and Wood's mother fighting it out in Central Park. Once the Prokaroyte Stone is entered into Spikes body Giles believes they will find the Trigger for Spike. Of course this event is traumatic for Spike where we see flashbacks to how he sired his own mother. Wood and Giles conspire to kill Spike but must keep Buffy out of the way, as she would stop this. Once Wood has Spike in his house we see him tooling up to kill Spike. Once again he plays the Trigger song and we are taken back to him and his mother this time very disturbing with incestuous undertones, as the Demon is within his mother is unleashed. Spike confronts Wood about his own mother, who Spike claims didn't love him enough as she was a Slayer and that was her priority. When Giles and Buffy have the conversation in the graveyard, we can see Buffy now say if she had to she would kill Dawn to save the World. We can see how Buffy is just focused on The War ahead. When she realises Giles has stalled her she races to Woods house to find Spike outside. Spike spares Woods life, and Buffy has a very powerful conversation with Woods where she tells him straight out that if Spike decides to kill him, she will not stop him. One of the best episodes of S7 by far.
There's a song... "I'm my own grandpa".
@@Mrs.Watcher Wow. Haha. Must've been vamp, or a time traveler. 😁
Around 39 minutes in, when you said you didn't have time (to discuss?), that made my brain think on a tangent about how certain movies, although great in ways, will require a lot of time afterwards to mentally process them, etc. That got me thinking about (and suggesting to you if you want!) to watch and hopefully react to (again, if you'd like of course) these two:
The Korean version of "Miracle in Cell No. 7", and the Turkish version of "Miracle in Cell No. 7."
I imagine the order of watching might matter, and I happened to see first the Korean and then the Turkish version, and I think I indeed preferred that order (but of course we can't be sure without wiping our memory and trying them in reverse, lol).
The VERY interesting thing is... so, those two movies DO have the same major plot / themes with some vital differences... but I was particularly fascinated by how DIFFERENT my own two reactions to each were! If you see one or both of them, we can discuss and compare haha ;)
SUCH a great episode!
22:10 Dude you REALLY have to catch up on Angel.
SO close to the end of season and show!!
Right?! Feels weird. It's been about 3 years since I started. FWIW, I actually don't get to the end, well, at least not for reactions - there's no finale reaction. ☹️ I failed to press record (I know 🤦♂️). I did do a rewatch. I know that can't replace a 'first time' reaction, but it's something at least, even if it's crap, lol. I'll post a link to it with E21's reaction.
@@jaypeakay5864 Yes please post it- I know 2nd time reactions aren't the same but they are something; I know from both personal experience and watching the very few "subsequent" reactions to certain things others have posted :)
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍
It's understandable you were stuck on the Buffy/Nikki/Wood thing. Buffy should have known. She has shown a big interest in getting to know about previous slayers and here she has the son of one right in front of her and she doesnt drill him about it. By his age, she could have figured out by herself that Nikki could have been a contender. It's bad writing. Writing for the story only and forgetting the characters. Happens a lot in BtVS.
Buffy at least has an in-universe excuse to not be aware. She's dealing with like 100 things at once, so her focus would be split. Looking into Wood's backstory and realizing he would have a personal vendetta with Spike wouldn't be a high priority with her, especially given the likelihood of all of them being together would be pretty low (Nikki died in NY.). Also, even the key players didn't realize until The First/circumstances made them aware.
@cajah88 Giles realised in one conversation with Wood. Buffy had plenty. She's the Slayer. It's her job to know these things.
@@CJ77777 You're comparing Giles, a studious person with tons of information and a watcher's background, to Buffy, a non-studious person who is leading and feeding a group of girls. taking care of Spike, and actively patrolling while holding a job and prepping and giving speeches, lol. Again, the main players didn't even know until circumstances allowed them to know. I'm just saying it's not really a Buffy issue that she missed the possible connection. You can have an issue with the writing of it.
@cajah88 Which was my initial point. Lol.
Unlike most people, this episode makes me like Spike even less...
I feel really bad for Wood. Even more cause he's actually right. But well, the show needed to keep Spike for the finale...
I also feel Buffy is being really unfair to Giles. He's killed someone so she wouldn't have to, he understands the importance of the mission perfectly well.
Have you watched the rest of Angel on your own?
Jesus. I'd forgotten he'd killed Ben. I don't know how he didn't bring that up in that final scene now. 🤔 The last Angel episode I watched was S4, E1. I just didn't have time to watch more. There wasn't any urgency once I'd finished Buffy, and I still have it in my mind somewhere that I'll miss Buffy so much that I may want to react to the rest of Angel. I probably won't, but I'd like to keep it as an option for a little while longer.
@@jaypeakay5864 OK, I'm asking so I don't spoil anything in case you continue to watch =)