The FX 5700 was my last GPU before switching to primarily gaming on consoles for awhile and I dreamed of that 6800 Ultra. (Probably, the mermaid that Nvidia is so ashamed of now too, but that's another story). The 6800 seemed so large and expensive to me at the time though. If I only knew what fate had in store...
The 6800 (non-Ultra), GT 6800 GTO & GS were also pretty fine cards. Especially the GS and GT are surprisingly good. The GT is just a lower clocked Ultra and the GS comes with 12 pipelines, but very high clocked.
Even the correct 1024x768 makes my GF3 setup look weak. But in that case it's the Pentium 3 that holds it back. On the other hand, it can run Unreal and UT99 in 1280x960 at 120+ fps
What many fail to realize is to "WHY" the Nvidia FX series was slower in DX9 titles.. one of the main issues was the higher precision 32bit done on shader processing, hence making it slower, but once the 5900Ultra and 5950 came out wasn't so bad... it was all just the start of DX9 games anyways.. kind of reminds me the first gen RTX 2000 series cards and DLSS and Raytracing performance compared to the 3000 series of today. It will take another gen for great raytracing performance... if gamers can actually get their hands on these cards.
Yup, they could only do FP16 and FP32, while DX9 asked for FP24. Running partially empty FP32 calculations obviously means not fully utilizing the hardware, and running FP16 lacks in accuracy.
@@HappyBeezerStudios The first Direct3D 9 specification didn't mandate exact numerical type for the hardware, just any floating point capability. That's why the hardware vendors at the time went in so many directions. Nvidia's initial design for the FX GPUs was 32-bit only pixel shaders and later in the design phase they realized the performance with D3D9 shaders was tanking due to insufficient register space, so they patched-in half-precision (16-bit) execution mode as compensation -- one of the reasons for the product delay. It was later with Shader Model 3.0 in Direct3D 9c that MS codified what numerical FP precision the GPU hardware had to support, so everyone stuck with 32-bit shaders anyway.
Thanks to everyone who's enjoyed this video! As stated later in the video, I am officially parting ways with my holy grail, the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra! I have had a lot of fun getting to use this card, and getting to record benchmarks, gameplay footage, and film it, and be able to share it with you all. If you'd like a chance to own this immensely rare collector's piece, you can check out the auction listing here: www.ebay.com/itm/324860911970 Apologies to my international viewers, but given the state of global shipping right now, I can only ship it within the US.
The "updated" FX lineup already improved DX9 performance. The FX 5700 and 5900 cards were pretty decent. It was a brute force solution, they just added a 3rd vertex shader to the pipeline, but that still meant 50% higher shading performance. The worst of them is probably the infamous FX 5200. The FX 5200 Ultra on the other hand was a decent card. Really good DX8 performance. In general the FX cards are great for DX8 And comparing the 6600 GT I have to add my old 7300 GT into the mix. It was one of those models that use a cut-down midrange chip on a low-end card and performed very close to the 6600 GT. The other 7300 cards used the low end chip. On mine I could get a 60% chip overclock which brought it close to a 7600 GS. In a modern day comparison, that would be like taking a GT 1030 and clocking it to performance parity with a GTX 1060 or clocking a RTX 3050 to catch up with a 3060 Ti or even a 3070
@@ArkanceloAutore Engels is niet mijn moeder taal Dus in plaats van te lopen huilen als een baby op de internet . Eens een keer denken dat de wereld kleiner is dankzij de internet . Use Google translate
I still remember the good old times when I had a AGP version of GF6200 which can be modded into 6600, also the fun with ATI R9500 non-pro to R9700 non-pro. There's so much fun back then.....
Well Nathan, I've update for you in response of the beginning of this video. As of September 2nd 2022, Intel's back at making proper PC GPU (not without any problem though) and Imagination Technologies has stated in their recent 30 years anniversary video that they'll back with another PowerVR PC GPU (despite their first official reentry would be Fantasy One GPU back in 2020, released in China), starting with mobile first. I can't wait to see how GPU war will materialize in 21st century, with AMD, Intel, Nvidia and Imagination Technologies fight for GPU (and small extends of APU) supremacy. That makes me excited for any long-term PC gaming! Thanks for the video, Nathan! 😁
one of my homies had a bfg 6600gtoc i remember him using it for quite some time through the quake3 era and its fan melting off while making it play left 4 dead. a replacement cooler was sourced and it kept on for a year and gave way to a ati x1650. it found another owner and played alot of fallout 3 and combat arms. it suffered artifacting and had been oven fixed no less then 4 times before it was too far gone. it lived a full life.
Just built a new retro rig with an Asrock ALiveDual-esata2, one of the newest and best native AGP boards. It's been years trying to get hold of one of these mobos as its been a sort of holy grail piece of tech for me. Great video as usual Nathan!
Ah, the weird ASRock mutant boards. They had some wild stuff back in the day. Like LGA775 with AGP and DDR1, or DDR1/DDR2 mixed boards, or boards with AGP and PCIe. Not the most stable boards, not the best performing boards, not the best overclocking boards. But great for large hardware comparisons (like pairing a Geforce 3 and a HD 5870 with the same Q6600), and for odd combinations.
I owned a FX 5700Ultra and it did everything I asked of it back in the day. I upgraded to a 6800 a Leadtek 6800 and it performed great and then went to a GTS 250 when I switched to PCI-E graphics and then a 560 ti. GFLOPS oh how have times have changed.
@@PixelPipes Unless its in that right age gap of "too old to be good, too new to be retro". I got a GTX295 reference single board model for AU$80 last year, which is a bargain considering single 275s go for anywhere from AU$50 to AU$200 depending on the model.
Thank's for your videos! But I can't agree this argument. If you want so see a "proper" FX 5000 Series GPU, just have a look on the FX5900 and FX5950 GPUs... it fixes most of the bigger problems of the FX5800 but still shows the flows of design decisions of the original FX Series. The 6000 Series in contrast utilize resources and technologies like GDDR3 or the manufacturing process, that where not available to the time when the original FX Series was released. From my point of view, thats like saying "the Core i7 12000 Series is what the original Pentium processor should have been..." It's just not. ;)
My big "what if" is if the xbox had better specs namely if it had the dream specs i.e 128 mb of ram instead of 64, and a 1.5ghz cpu instead of 733, and if it had xbox live from release. I think about this ALOT
I dont think the theoretical GPU would have been clocked anywhere near 500MHz; not only was the 6600 GT on a 110nm node, a big part of the 5800 Ultra's troubled development was from nVidia trying to push it on a then-unproven 130nm node, of which even if nVidia had stuck with pushing a product on the 130nm node instead of the mature 150nm node the 9700/9800 were on, I don't think they would have been as desperate to hit such high clock speeds and would have also been able to implement a reasonable cooling solution.
I got a 5900 as my first GPU for my first gaming computer. I dindt find anyting wrong with it until i tried to load up BF2, it definatley couldnt do the next gen shaders but that was a few years later, everytihng prior ran amazing, like COD original was butter smooth and showed off the latest and greatest FPS, ut2004 ran great, joint ops could have used 10 more fps thats where you could overclock it by flashing the bios to a 5950's bios. It really felt like I had the best video card playing the best games at the best setting for a time there with my 5900. I even got my parents a 5800 when i built their pc, just because i remember it being surprisingly cheap for only 1 level below mine so i thought what a perfect card to get for them, that was overkill for their needs and when I tried to fireup a game, it sure was a lot worse then the 5900, maybe it was a 5700 or 5600 i cant remember for sure now because the performance seems off, or maybe theres just a big leap between the 5800 and 5900 and maybe thats why it was relatively cheap. Anyway, I had no idea the FX sereies had this problems but was starting to see the limits of my GPU with games like joint ops and definately Bf2 it was time for an upgrade. And sure enough a 6800 ultra did the trick. Thanks for reminding me of the good times.
What would have been more interesting to see in this video, would have been tossing a FX 5900/5950 or Quadro FX 3000 into the mix since they used the NV35 GPU. The 5800 wasn't really on the market all that long before it was replaced by the 5900 series.
I had a FX 5900 Ultra back in the day and later upgraded it to a 6800GT (the Leadtek Winfast copper monster ^^). I upgraded that to a Radeon HD 3850, which was the last AGP card I bought. That card is still working in my retro system.
I also had a 6800GT. I had the Nvidia mermaid on my card. loved it. My friend had an Albatron 6800GT with a blonde cg girl. Completely forgot how we used to get cg girls on our gpus back in the day.
Thanks for another great video, Nathan! I love the 5800, it's so bad and so interesting. I have a 5850 ultra that I need to explore but have been putting off. Thanks for all your contribution to the retro community.
The 6600GT was the golden standard for mid-range SKU. A rare case of a perfect price/performance match, that held its value for long time. This was my first PCIe card -- a "sidegrade" from the AGP variant, due to PCIe motherboard upgrade.
That would get repeated again with the 8800GT. But they only would bring one out every couple of generations. Next was IMO the 560Ti, and the next great example would be the 1060Ti. Not too sure of others that would have fit that perfect spot from team green.
@@wishusknight3009 Except that the 8800 GT was a highend card for a midrange price. Pretty much a preview of the next series, the 9800 GT is pretty much identical, down to the chip and it's cut. And the 9800 GTX+ was reused as GTS 250, shows how good the design was. And yes, I too miss the time when the midrange card was just half the highend card and also came for the corresponding price.
A friend of mine had a pcie evga 6600gt in a rig he built back in 2004 to prepare for HL2 and CS Source. Had Nalu on the fan/heatsink. Was impressive back in 2004 in price/performance. Just a shame the 6600 and 6800 are becoming so expensive, would love to give one a spin. I use an X850xt pe in my xp machine, and i love the crap outta that thing.
People talk crap about the FX series of GPUs completely in hindsight but barely anyone I knew had ATI and it wasn't until a majority of people went to athlon 64x2 pci express systems did they upgrade.
Talking about retro-hardware is awesome because you can time-travel from one era to another but at the same time you have a finite amount of things you can talk about and this was a fun way to imagine an alternative past. I'd probably have also run some tests with few things deactivated here and there on the 6600GT to make it hypothetically fit in that 125 million transistors in 2003 🙂
GeForce FX 5800 Ultra should have had a 256bit memory bus. With the GDDR2 clocked at 500Mhz it would have been amazing. ATI had released the 9700 Pro well before and they had put 256bit memory bus
I would kill to see you get your hands on a Volari Duo [speaking of train wrecks, lmao], Volari V8, or a S3 Delta chrome card. Good or bad they were the last hurrah against the graphics duopoly, and i recall the latter being a genuinely good midrange card like the 6600GT. Love this video, it is actually quiet a brilliant comparison I've not considered before.
Like the TNT2 M64 and MX440, you don't find those 6600 cards, they just sort of, find you. If you buy a lot of random untested AGP cards because you saw a geforce 256 DDR in there or something, or find something AGP in the recycling; it's likely it's going to be one of those, or an FX 5200; in either case you'll be disappointed and put it on the heap. Before you know it you have a bunch of 'em.
Regarding videos, not to worry! Part of my plan with selling the card was to get all the data, and all the footage I'll ever need from it, so you can expect videos featuring the 5800 Ultra long into the future.
What the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra SHOULD have been? It should have been the Radeon 9800 Pro. Today modern PC gamers would never believed how ATI defeated Nvidia so badly during the Geforce FX and Radeon R300 generation. If only AMD had not bought ATI and taken away all the funding.....
NVidia Source code is closed source which means you cannot change it if it crashes your computer and it seems like AMD/ATI is open source so you can fix the bugs that cause your PC to crash.
Hi. I want to cool some chips on a graphics card. The cybervision 64. But the only way is to use some adhesive compound. Do you have any recommendations for me? I cant find reviews and such like with normal thermal paste.
I love this retro hardware reviews, back then we didn't have TH-cam reviewers, is very interesting to watch this videos! I Still have my Fx 5200 Geforce....
And i still have very mixed feelings about mine 5200. At one side, it ran hl2 and orange box later just fast enough for me to have lots of fun, on the other side, it forced me to learn basics of electronics just to slap a cooler on its passive cooling system so its wont overheat and melt.
The FX 5200 was just slow. It was slower than the GF4 Ti 4200, and in some cases even a GF3 Ti 500. It was used a lot in OEM machines, often with the highest available VRAM. One big reason why there are so many on the used market. That way they could claim to have "256 MB Geforce FX graphics" (The FX 5950 Ultra, the fastest card of the series, also had 256 MB. It's the same thing as those 4 GB GT 730 cards. Who cares that they're rebranded GT 440 with DDR3, they have 4 GB and are of the newest series.) It's a bit like how commercials always emphasized the 3.2 GHz of a Pentium 4. The FX 5200 Ultra was a completely different thing. It was a midrange card with a lowend branding. Being able to beat a 5600 and get very close to a 5600 Ultra.
In Wikipedia, i recently came across the GeForce PCX 5950 and the GeForce FX 5700 Ultra rev.2 which both state to have GDDR3 memory, but i couldn't find any selling on ebay or even old articles that benchmarked them. Where those ever released and would the GDDR3 memory helped them?
Wow, you gonna part ways with a functional 5800 ultra?! I Imagine it wasn't that easy to give it up P.S: I am betting on the X700 to wipe the floor with the 6600
Only discovered your channel the other day, I love the format of your content and you're a very informed and great story teller. Recently picked up an old socket 462 system to remake my first gaming computer from 2003, although this one has a radeon 9800 pro in it which I could only gaze upon back in those days, though I was more than happy with a radeon 9250. Seeing how much better hardware got is mad, and it's even more mad how much better each generation was compared to the last in the early 2000s. I'm gonna have fun playing some mohaa, call of duty and far cry on this beast once the 2500+ arrives (currently the system has a 1600+ at 1.4ghz). Looking forward to more great quality content man!
R300 saved them, they where facing bankruptcy, they put all their remaining capital and Goodwill into R300, if it had failed ATI would have had their assets bought by Nvidia.
On the one hand if you bought a 5800 Ultra you would be gutted that the next gen mid range card was so much faster, on the other hand if you managed to keep the card 20 odd years and tried to sell it today it wasn’t too bad an investment 😅
Lovely content! If I may suggest something, it would be to show some gameplay of the tests. I love retro gaming, gaming from the early 90's to the mid 2000's was my favorite era of gaming and I miss a lot of these games!
Loved my 6600GT AGP, enjoyed this video thanks. Interesting results, but I remember owning a 5000 series card (don't recall which one - 5500 I think) before getting the 6600GT and wondered why the performance was so poor when it was supposed to be a next gen card.
I almost bought one of those, bought a Radeon 9800 Pro instead. Glad I did, but unfortunately that 9800 Pro started artifacting a couple of years later. Oh well.
The frametime issues on the 6600 GT in UT2004 are really weird. I looked into the specs and there is nothing that should cause it. Both have the same pixel and texel fillrate and nearly identical memory bandwith. And the ops and vertex shader performance of the 6600 GT are flat out double what the 5800 Ultra has.
For Windows 2000 & XP with GeForce 3-6/7 AGP cards, and my XFX 256MB 6600 GT AGP card in particular, I always like to use 93.71 myself. It runs well with a variety of earlier games like Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 Professional, as well as benchmarks such as 3DMark 2001 SE, 2003 & 2006. Also, my XFX 6600GT already runs the memory at 1GHz effective out of the box.
Hey Pixelpipes you should review the GeForce 7900 GTX, I think it was Nvidia's most powerful GPU before the jump to unified shaders in late 2006 with the Geforce 8800 GTX
Hi! Now You have oportunity to check if ovecloking AGP interface help something, technicaly AGP can run up to 200 MHz, but run with 100 MHz is from my using 7300 GT worth risk.
Most of the 6600gts had the extra shaders locked off an I think laser cut but some 6600LEs had all 16p 8v shaders too but could be unlocked by riva tuner..I could see them on my pcie GT but where unlockable... Shame as my GT was a good clocking card had a cut down athlon xp heatsink on an never went above 60c with a 80mm fan
Back then I could only afford an FX5200. Now I have an FX5900XT in one of my retro rigs (with a Tualatin P3-S 1.4GHz) and I have to say that it's a solid performer for Windows 98 games.
Before you sell that 5800 Ultra, it would be fun to know how low in the 6000 Series you have to go to make it look got in comparison. Or in other words: How little money would have given you the same Performance back then?
"what if the FX5800 was good?" honestly NOTHING would have changed.. Nvidia is already top dog, the possibility of having another good card on the list is redundant
His 5800 Ultra is probably worth as much as a 3080Super. Not surprised it got sold. I think I would too. And regarding its architecture. It is really a heavy extention of the GF4 more than it is a fresh design. The GF6 was a near clean room design from scratch, and the first since the original gforce. It was based on the layout of 3DFX' "FEAR" designs they were working on before its demise. The generation that was to come after rampage.
geforce 6600GT finally got me off the geforce2 gts I was using 4 was already old, 5 sucked and when 6 series were right price, right performance and at about the time that games that absolutely required shaders started to be commonplace
The whole GF FX is interesting, they tried something and failed. So I give Nvidia that, they TRIED something. To bad that it didn't conform to the dx9 standards. And that it was more optimized for dx8 in design then what dx9 could do. But yeah, it had some BRIGHT ideas.
Yea, mistake is still a take. Look how innovative was gaming market in late 90s/early 00s. Nowadays they just put another open-world game with trophies or remastered version of something that doesn't even need a remaster.
And to think that at the time I had FX5200 64bit version.... Dayum...... Later i got FX5700LE but it was barely any better. I couldn't understand why.....
As someone that went from a Ti4200 to FX5200 64bit and then FX5900... I found even halving the memory bus from 128bit to 64bit completely destroyed those 5200 cards which were weak to begin with... In newer cards faster ram speeds help make up for halving of memory bandwidth hence your 2 cards in performance not much different. Now if you went to a 5700Ultra it would have been night and day difference to that 5200 you had.
@@tigerdefensesystems I remember going from GeForce 2 MX200 to FX 5200 thinking i was going to play some games. No luck... Later down the line i switched sides and went for ATI X700 which was fast and served me well for 2 years before finally dying and making me buy GTX 8800GTS. That one was a beast!!!! Good times!
@@neurokremmilan one thing you have to remember that the MX series cards in 200 and 400 series.. they didnt have any pixel and vertex shaders... they would in some cases run games faster under certain titles if they didnt require a PS/VS shader card. Every single FX or 5000 series cards had PS/VS at the time and that really hampered the FX5200 at the time. I went from GF2 MX200 to GF4 MX400 to Ti4200 to FX5200 then FX5900... I couldnt figure out either why my FX5200 sucked so bad even compared to Ti4200... well between PS/VS shader architecture, the neutred 64bit memory bus really crippled that 5200. This was all before I really studied to learn how all the cards work, but yeah ATI really put the hurt on Nvidia during that year or so until the 6000 series.
@@tigerdefensesystems yea, those MX were DX7 . They only did TnL, no Ps or Vs whatsoever. They were ok for 2001. Before that I had good ol' TNT Riva 2 , 32 mb. Crazy little thing . Paired with Celeron 2 on 733mhz with 128mb ram. It was a beast. Well, it wasn't , but i was a kid. Pretty light could get me high at the time 🙂
Really cool video. Also wondering what os you tested on...? At present my agp builds are set up to be Windows 98 monsters, since I have much newer hardware for Windows xp. One being an Athlon xp 3200+ and the other an Athlon 64 3700+. The xp with the 6600gt, final driver to final driver, is _faster at Aquamark 3_ than the X850 XT pe, on my a64 build. It's kind of bonkers how bad the Radeon is/was in opengl.
have you been able to find any FX series cards with PCI E? according to what im seeing online a few were released but man i cant find anything on them. Edit: i also have a maximum pc magazine from feb 2003 where they got to test a pre release FX5800 and some of the benchmarks they show, show it beating the 9700Pro but every single benchmark ive ever seen shows it loosing to the 9700 pretty badly.
FX series cards on PCIe were called PCX series cards, and there were only a few models which pop up pretty irregularly on eBay. It's more common to find Quadro equivalents like the Quadro FX 1300.
@@PixelPipes yeah i was just reading up on them, i found a single website that had several in stock but all of them were over $100 to $150 and some were even $200, way to much to buy as a novelty. i actually just bought a couple of quadros that are equivilent to the 6800 and 5800 because they are 1/4 the price.
hey i have an old pentium 4 system that I want to use as a old-school test bench. the chip in particular is the pentium 4 SL7PK, and the mobo I have only has PCI on it. any help would be appriceated!
I spot the Arya, what's the blue one? also I had a 6600GT that I watercooled and glued BGA RAMsinks to, then overclocked it to the very edge of stability... good times
Some nitpicking on the video production: your shutter speed seem too fast, making the motion jerky. It's best to stick to 180 degree shutter angle, this video from DPReview might be of some help: th-cam.com/video/X4vg1Qmb0Eg/w-d-xo.html
The FX 5700 was my last GPU before switching to primarily gaming on consoles for awhile and I dreamed of that 6800 Ultra. (Probably, the mermaid that Nvidia is so ashamed of now too, but that's another story). The 6800 seemed so large and expensive to me at the time though. If I only knew what fate had in store...
The 6800 (non-Ultra), GT 6800 GTO & GS were also pretty fine cards.
Especially the GS and GT are surprisingly good.
The GT is just a lower clocked Ultra and the GS comes with 12 pipelines, but very high clocked.
dang UT3 at 1024x7689 pushing 150+ fps lol. Thats some serious screen ratio and pixel throughput haha.. I know its a typo. Thanks for the vid Nathan!
Even the correct 1024x768 makes my GF3 setup look weak. But in that case it's the Pentium 3 that holds it back.
On the other hand, it can run Unreal and UT99 in 1280x960 at 120+ fps
What many fail to realize is to "WHY" the Nvidia FX series was slower in DX9 titles.. one of the main issues was the higher precision 32bit done on shader processing, hence making it slower, but once the 5900Ultra and 5950 came out wasn't so bad... it was all just the start of DX9 games anyways.. kind of reminds me the first gen RTX 2000 series cards and DLSS and Raytracing performance compared to the 3000 series of today. It will take another gen for great raytracing performance... if gamers can actually get their hands on these cards.
Yup, they could only do FP16 and FP32, while DX9 asked for FP24.
Running partially empty FP32 calculations obviously means not fully utilizing the hardware, and running FP16 lacks in accuracy.
@@HappyBeezerStudios The first Direct3D 9 specification didn't mandate exact numerical type for the hardware, just any floating point capability. That's why the hardware vendors at the time went in so many directions. Nvidia's initial design for the FX GPUs was 32-bit only pixel shaders and later in the design phase they realized the performance with D3D9 shaders was tanking due to insufficient register space, so they patched-in half-precision (16-bit) execution mode as compensation -- one of the reasons for the product delay. It was later with Shader Model 3.0 in Direct3D 9c that MS codified what numerical FP precision the GPU hardware had to support, so everyone stuck with 32-bit shaders anyway.
You know far more about graphics cards than I do so I'll leave that aspect to you - but I just wanted to say that that shirt is excellent.
Thank you! lol
Thanks to everyone who's enjoyed this video!
As stated later in the video, I am officially parting ways with my holy grail, the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra! I have had a lot of fun getting to use this card, and getting to record benchmarks, gameplay footage, and film it, and be able to share it with you all.
If you'd like a chance to own this immensely rare collector's piece, you can check out the auction listing here: www.ebay.com/itm/324860911970
Apologies to my international viewers, but given the state of global shipping right now, I can only ship it within the US.
The "updated" FX lineup already improved DX9 performance.
The FX 5700 and 5900 cards were pretty decent.
It was a brute force solution, they just added a 3rd vertex shader to the pipeline, but that still meant 50% higher shading performance.
The worst of them is probably the infamous FX 5200. The FX 5200 Ultra on the other hand was a decent card. Really good DX8 performance.
In general the FX cards are great for DX8
And comparing the 6600 GT I have to add my old 7300 GT into the mix. It was one of those models that use a cut-down midrange chip on a low-end card and performed very close to the 6600 GT. The other 7300 cards used the low end chip.
On mine I could get a 60% chip overclock which brought it close to a 7600 GS. In a modern day comparison, that would be like taking a GT 1030 and clocking it to performance parity with a GTX 1060 or clocking a RTX 3050 to catch up with a 3060 Ti or even a 3070
What if Nvidia had supported Glide? 😅
This would have been awsome! I would have kept my geforce FX 5200 Ultra to this day instead of giving it away.
Can you imagine if they kept iterating it? Glide with shaders, anyone?
Still have a original 6600gt dual gpu beult by gigabyte.
IT works whan i set IT away .
But condensator are Boll today and have to replace.
@@ArkanceloAutore hè dit . But test again agains Spike with the 6600gt . Hé tell wy je dit IT
@@ArkanceloAutore Engels is niet mijn moeder taal
Dus in plaats van te lopen huilen als een baby op de internet .
Eens een keer denken dat de wereld kleiner is dankzij de internet .
Use Google translate
I still remember the good old times when I had a AGP version of GF6200 which can be modded into 6600, also the fun with ATI R9500 non-pro to R9700 non-pro. There's so much fun back then.....
Well Nathan, I've update for you in response of the beginning of this video. As of September 2nd 2022, Intel's back at making proper PC GPU (not without any problem though) and Imagination Technologies has stated in their recent 30 years anniversary video that they'll back with another PowerVR PC GPU (despite their first official reentry would be Fantasy One GPU back in 2020, released in China), starting with mobile first. I can't wait to see how GPU war will materialize in 21st century, with AMD, Intel, Nvidia and Imagination Technologies fight for GPU (and small extends of APU) supremacy. That makes me excited for any long-term PC gaming! Thanks for the video, Nathan! 😁
one of my homies had a bfg 6600gtoc i remember him using it for quite some time through the quake3 era and its fan melting off while making it play left 4 dead. a replacement cooler was sourced and it kept on for a year and gave way to a ati x1650. it found another owner and played alot of fallout 3 and combat arms. it suffered artifacting and had been oven fixed no less then 4 times before it was too far gone. it lived a full life.
Really appreciate your content. Your passion and understanding of graphical tech is unsurpassed IMHO.
Just built a new retro rig with an Asrock ALiveDual-esata2, one of the newest and best native AGP boards. It's been years trying to get hold of one of these mobos as its been a sort of holy grail piece of tech for me. Great video as usual Nathan!
Ah, the weird ASRock mutant boards. They had some wild stuff back in the day. Like LGA775 with AGP and DDR1, or DDR1/DDR2 mixed boards, or boards with AGP and PCIe.
Not the most stable boards, not the best performing boards, not the best overclocking boards. But great for large hardware comparisons (like pairing a Geforce 3 and a HD 5870 with the same Q6600), and for odd combinations.
I like that you added the 9 after 768 part of the resolution benchmarks.
forget Ultrawide. The future of monitors is UltraVerticle!
I owned a FX 5700Ultra and it did everything I asked of it back in the day. I upgraded to a 6800 a Leadtek 6800 and it performed great and then went to a GTS 250 when I switched to PCI-E graphics and then a 560 ti. GFLOPS oh how have times have changed.
Great to another video.
It goes to show that maybe getting a hard to find, high priced card is not as smart as just getting a midrange card from the next generation for less.
ALWAYS the case. Buying top-of-the-line is never a great value-proposition
@@PixelPipes Unless its in that right age gap of "too old to be good, too new to be retro". I got a GTX295 reference single board model for AU$80 last year, which is a bargain considering single 275s go for anywhere from AU$50 to AU$200 depending on the model.
Thank's for your videos!
But I can't agree this argument. If you want so see a "proper" FX 5000 Series GPU, just have a look on the FX5900 and FX5950 GPUs... it fixes most of the bigger problems of the FX5800 but still shows the flows of design decisions of the original FX Series. The 6000 Series in contrast utilize resources and technologies like GDDR3 or the manufacturing process, that where not available to the time when the original FX Series was released. From my point of view, thats like saying "the Core i7 12000 Series is what the original Pentium processor should have been..." It's just not. ;)
"The Dawn of Cinematic Computing" ahhh I remember 2003 like yesterday.
that was when i was running a ati 9800 aiw pro, and it is still running strong today
My big "what if" is if the xbox had better specs namely if it had the dream specs i.e 128 mb of ram instead of 64, and a 1.5ghz cpu instead of 733, and if it had xbox live from release. I think about this ALOT
Great video & great channel ! Thanks Nathan, have a great day !
I dont think the theoretical GPU would have been clocked anywhere near 500MHz; not only was the 6600 GT on a 110nm node, a big part of the 5800 Ultra's troubled development was from nVidia trying to push it on a then-unproven 130nm node, of which even if nVidia had stuck with pushing a product on the 130nm node instead of the mature 150nm node the 9700/9800 were on, I don't think they would have been as desperate to hit such high clock speeds and would have also been able to implement a reasonable cooling solution.
I got a 5900 as my first GPU for my first gaming computer. I dindt find anyting wrong with it until i tried to load up BF2, it definatley couldnt do the next gen shaders but that was a few years later, everytihng prior ran amazing, like COD original was butter smooth and showed off the latest and greatest FPS, ut2004 ran great, joint ops could have used 10 more fps thats where you could overclock it by flashing the bios to a 5950's bios. It really felt like I had the best video card playing the best games at the best setting for a time there with my 5900. I even got my parents a 5800 when i built their pc, just because i remember it being surprisingly cheap for only 1 level below mine so i thought what a perfect card to get for them, that was overkill for their needs and when I tried to fireup a game, it sure was a lot worse then the 5900, maybe it was a 5700 or 5600 i cant remember for sure now because the performance seems off, or maybe theres just a big leap between the 5800 and 5900 and maybe thats why it was relatively cheap. Anyway, I had no idea the FX sereies had this problems but was starting to see the limits of my GPU with games like joint ops and definately Bf2 it was time for an upgrade. And sure enough a 6800 ultra did the trick. Thanks for reminding me of the good times.
What would have been more interesting to see in this video, would have been tossing a FX 5900/5950 or Quadro FX 3000 into the mix since they used the NV35 GPU. The 5800 wasn't really on the market all that long before it was replaced by the 5900 series.
It wasn't in the cards (lawl) for this video, but I do plan on comparing all the highend FX cards at some point
Here is suggestion for a vid
Make a history vid for the legendary DFI LanParty
back in the day they were the VooDoo of motherboards
I had a FX 5900 Ultra back in the day and later upgraded it to a 6800GT (the Leadtek Winfast copper monster ^^).
I upgraded that to a Radeon HD 3850, which was the last AGP card I bought. That card is still working in my retro system.
I also had a 6800GT. I had the Nvidia mermaid on my card. loved it. My friend had an Albatron 6800GT with a blonde cg girl. Completely forgot how we used to get cg girls on our gpus back in the day.
@@tHeWasTeDYouTh You can't get them nowadays, because people nowadays are so easily offended that even girl on graphics card make them angry xD
@@postanimus8989 insane right, back in the day no one would have even thought about it. I guess we just have to wait this out.
Can you confirm that FX 5900 Ultra perfomed better in DX9 games againts fx 5800 and older ones?
Thanks for another great video, Nathan! I love the 5800, it's so bad and so interesting. I have a 5850 ultra that I need to explore but have been putting off. Thanks for all your contribution to the retro community.
If you make a video of a 5850 ultra I would definitely watch that !!! Because I don't think that card exists 😄 I think you mean 5950u 😄 🤣
@@RetroGPUsandBuilds haha probably, sorry.
@@SUCRA just joking around, no need to be sorry 😅
The 6600GT was the golden standard for mid-range SKU. A rare case of a perfect price/performance match, that held its value for long time.
This was my first PCIe card -- a "sidegrade" from the AGP variant, due to PCIe motherboard upgrade.
That would get repeated again with the 8800GT. But they only would bring one out every couple of generations. Next was IMO the 560Ti, and the next great example would be the 1060Ti. Not too sure of others that would have fit that perfect spot from team green.
@@wishusknight3009 1060Ti isn't a thing. GTX 1060 6GB you mean?
@@classic_jam yeah that.....
@@wishusknight3009 Except that the 8800 GT was a highend card for a midrange price.
Pretty much a preview of the next series, the 9800 GT is pretty much identical, down to the chip and it's cut.
And the 9800 GTX+ was reused as GTS 250, shows how good the design was.
And yes, I too miss the time when the midrange card was just half the highend card and also came for the corresponding price.
A friend of mine had a pcie evga 6600gt in a rig he built back in 2004 to prepare for HL2 and CS Source. Had Nalu on the fan/heatsink. Was impressive back in 2004 in price/performance. Just a shame the 6600 and 6800 are becoming so expensive, would love to give one a spin. I use an X850xt pe in my xp machine, and i love the crap outta that thing.
Was waiting for leaf blower sound as intro :)
Hi, good video! In a future do you will speak about the quality image of the nvidia vs ati? Saludos!
People talk crap about the FX series of GPUs completely in hindsight but barely anyone I knew had ATI and it wasn't until a majority of people went to athlon 64x2 pci express systems did they upgrade.
These videos make me feel so old i remember when they were new I still have a 6600GT left over from my Athlon(x86) 3000 rig.
Good old Athlon XP 3000+, what a nice chip.
Guess it's time to build a retro rig :D
Talking about retro-hardware is awesome because you can time-travel from one era to another but at the same time you have a finite amount of things you can talk about and this was a fun way to imagine an alternative past. I'd probably have also run some tests with few things deactivated here and there on the 6600GT to make it hypothetically fit in that 125 million transistors in 2003 🙂
Whoa how they managed to make Ultra, better version with older node version (130nm vs 110nm)... nowadays it is always other way or same.
subscribed , you're very well spoken and get straight to the point. love the vids
GF cards 5700, 5900 and 5950 ultra already made changes that improved performance of DX9 games so those were not bad gpus..
ah, and I love the thumbnail! 😎
GeForce FX 5800 Ultra should have had a 256bit memory bus. With the GDDR2 clocked at 500Mhz it would have been amazing. ATI had released the 9700 Pro well before and they had put 256bit memory bus
The real star of this battle was the Shirt! but what an interesting battle. Maybe a short Follow up showing 66GT vs 5900/5950?
I would kill to see you get your hands on a Volari Duo [speaking of train wrecks, lmao], Volari V8, or a S3 Delta chrome card. Good or bad they were the last hurrah against the graphics duopoly, and i recall the latter being a genuinely good midrange card like the 6600GT. Love this video, it is actually quiet a brilliant comparison I've not considered before.
The Deltachrome was good had it been launched 2 years earlier. It came a bit late to the dinner table and its drivers came even later than that.
Like the TNT2 M64 and MX440, you don't find those 6600 cards, they just sort of, find you. If you buy a lot of random untested AGP cards because you saw a geforce 256 DDR in there or something, or find something AGP in the recycling; it's likely it's going to be one of those, or an FX 5200; in either case you'll be disappointed and put it on the heap. Before you know it you have a bunch of 'em.
Nooo! Please keep the 5800 Ultra! I love watching the videos about it. Plus your collection won't be complete without it.
Regarding videos, not to worry! Part of my plan with selling the card was to get all the data, and all the footage I'll ever need from it, so you can expect videos featuring the 5800 Ultra long into the future.
Great comparison, I hope you make also similar comparison of that 5800 with Radeon 9800.
What the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra SHOULD have been?
It should have been the Radeon 9800 Pro. Today modern PC gamers would never believed how ATI defeated Nvidia so badly during the Geforce FX and Radeon R300 generation. If only AMD had not bought ATI and taken away all the funding.....
Ahh I dreamt about owning a 6600GT at the time. Was proud owner of 4200ti :) eventually updated to 7600gt
NVidia Source code is closed source which means you cannot change it if it crashes your computer and it seems like AMD/ATI is open source so you can fix the bugs that cause your PC to crash.
Hi. I want to cool some chips on a graphics card. The cybervision 64. But the only way is to use some adhesive compound. Do you have any recommendations for me? I cant find reviews and such like with normal thermal paste.
I love this retro hardware reviews, back then we didn't have TH-cam reviewers, is very interesting to watch this videos!
I Still have my Fx 5200 Geforce....
And i still have very mixed feelings about mine 5200. At one side, it ran hl2 and orange box later just fast enough for me to have lots of fun, on the other side, it forced me to learn basics of electronics just to slap a cooler on its passive cooling system so its wont overheat and melt.
The FX 5200 was just slow. It was slower than the GF4 Ti 4200, and in some cases even a GF3 Ti 500.
It was used a lot in OEM machines, often with the highest available VRAM. One big reason why there are so many on the used market. That way they could claim to have "256 MB Geforce FX graphics"
(The FX 5950 Ultra, the fastest card of the series, also had 256 MB. It's the same thing as those 4 GB GT 730 cards. Who cares that they're rebranded GT 440 with DDR3, they have 4 GB and are of the newest series.)
It's a bit like how commercials always emphasized the 3.2 GHz of a Pentium 4.
The FX 5200 Ultra was a completely different thing. It was a midrange card with a lowend branding. Being able to beat a 5600 and get very close to a 5600 Ultra.
@@HappyBeezerStudios I dind't know that history, so interesting !
I still hate the 4MX and the fx5200 to this day. I sucked so much being a strapped-for-cash gamer.
In Wikipedia, i recently came across the GeForce PCX 5950 and the GeForce FX 5700 Ultra rev.2 which both state to have GDDR3 memory,
but i couldn't find any selling on ebay or even old articles that benchmarked them.
Where those ever released and would the GDDR3 memory helped them?
Wow, you gonna part ways with a functional 5800 ultra?! I Imagine it wasn't that easy to give it up
P.S: I am betting on the X700 to wipe the floor with the 6600
Only discovered your channel the other day, I love the format of your content and you're a very informed and great story teller. Recently picked up an old socket 462 system to remake my first gaming computer from 2003, although this one has a radeon 9800 pro in it which I could only gaze upon back in those days, though I was more than happy with a radeon 9250. Seeing how much better hardware got is mad, and it's even more mad how much better each generation was compared to the last in the early 2000s. I'm gonna have fun playing some mohaa, call of duty and far cry on this beast once the 2500+ arrives (currently the system has a 1600+ at 1.4ghz). Looking forward to more great quality content man!
a mid tier being faster than a top tier from the last gen... lol
today we might even have a top tier only ties with the last gen sometimes...
I like your videos. Sis Xabre video would be nice. Do You have it in your collection?
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That was really interesting 🤔, who knows what would have happened to ATI if they where not king for a while with the 9x00 series. Great content 👌
ATI might have been relegated to the likes of Matrox.. and Nvidia would sadly still be a dominating top dog... in other words, it wouldn't change much
@@DanafoxyVixen indeed but then even worse...
R300 saved them, they where facing bankruptcy, they put all their remaining capital and Goodwill into R300, if it had failed ATI would have had their assets bought by Nvidia.
@@candle86 luckely that didn't happened!
@@candle86 And afterwards they were asked to develop Xenon for the Xbox 360, a design which was then ported into the HD 2000/3000 cards.
On the one hand if you bought a 5800 Ultra you would be gutted that the next gen mid range card was so much faster, on the other hand if you managed to keep the card 20 odd years and tried to sell it today it wasn’t too bad an investment 😅
Lovely content!
If I may suggest something, it would be to show some gameplay of the tests. I love retro gaming, gaming from the early 90's to the mid 2000's was my favorite era of gaming and I miss a lot of these games!
The 6600gt was a beast
Loved my 6600GT AGP, enjoyed this video thanks. Interesting results, but I remember owning a 5000 series card (don't recall which one - 5500 I think) before getting the 6600GT and wondered why the performance was so poor when it was supposed to be a next gen card.
I almost bought one of those, bought a Radeon 9800 Pro instead.
Glad I did, but unfortunately that 9800 Pro started artifacting a couple of years later.
Oh well.
The frametime issues on the 6600 GT in UT2004 are really weird. I looked into the specs and there is nothing that should cause it. Both have the same pixel and texel fillrate and nearly identical memory bandwith. And the ops and vertex shader performance of the 6600 GT are flat out double what the 5800 Ultra has.
For Windows 2000 & XP with GeForce 3-6/7 AGP cards, and my XFX 256MB 6600 GT AGP card in particular, I always like to use 93.71 myself. It runs well with a variety of earlier games like Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 Professional, as well as benchmarks such as 3DMark 2001 SE, 2003 & 2006. Also, my XFX 6600GT already runs the memory at 1GHz effective out of the box.
Hey Pixelpipes you should review the GeForce 7900 GTX, I think it was Nvidia's most powerful GPU before the jump to unified shaders in late 2006 with the Geforce 8800 GTX
Hi! Now You have oportunity to check if ovecloking AGP interface help something, technicaly AGP can run up to 200 MHz, but run with 100 MHz is from my using 7300 GT worth risk.
WHERE YA AT?
I thought exactly the same today, I hope he is fine. Some new awesome content would be nice
i owned a 8600GTS back in the day, would be a nice comparison between the 2 cards to see how much the 66GT can compete w/ the 88GTS
@Mr. Sophistication can it not? was the jump that large from 6 to 8?
well either way id love to see a comparison where the 6 to 8 series gets lined up
@@Space_Reptile the 7000 was after the 6000
@@RetroAmateur1989 obviusly, but that generation has been largely ignored , kinda like the RTX 20 series nowadays
iron giant is so underrrated
Most of the 6600gts had the extra shaders locked off an I think laser cut but some 6600LEs had all 16p 8v shaders too but could be unlocked by riva tuner..I could see them on my pcie GT but where unlockable... Shame as my GT was a good clocking card had a cut down athlon xp heatsink on an never went above 60c with a 80mm fan
Back then I could only afford an FX5200. Now I have an FX5900XT in one of my retro rigs (with a Tualatin P3-S 1.4GHz) and I have to say that it's a solid performer for Windows 98 games.
I had that card and game a lot on. Its play great on the older games like DirectX 8.1 what ATI sucks with the 1e Radeon with a broken shader.
What's that flyby at 2:12 from? It looks vaguely familiar but I can't put my finger on it
That's one of the two flyby tests for Painkiller (I used BenchEmAll in this case).
Before you sell that 5800 Ultra, it would be fun to know how low in the 6000 Series you have to go to make it look got in comparison. Or in other words: How little money would have given you the same Performance back then?
Videos like that can still be done even after the 5800U is gone. I have lots of data
lets not forget to mention how 6600 gt is a ticking timebomb due to using unsupportive underfill
Love this content!!! Plus 1st Comment and Like !!! Membership FTW!!
The Graph of 3DMark03 looks weird. The scale must be wrong for 6600GT. 93xx cannot be double of 63xx.
Ah yeah I forgot to adjust the scale. My bad
"what if the FX5800 was good?" honestly NOTHING would have changed.. Nvidia is already top dog, the possibility of having another good card on the list is redundant
His 5800 Ultra is probably worth as much as a 3080Super. Not surprised it got sold. I think I would too.
And regarding its architecture. It is really a heavy extention of the GF4 more than it is a fresh design. The GF6 was a near clean room design from scratch, and the first since the original gforce. It was based on the layout of 3DFX' "FEAR" designs they were working on before its demise. The generation that was to come after rampage.
IMO the cooler is the only problem
"What if Intel didn't stop making GPUs after 1998?" *Intel arc*
Cool idea! Could the framestutters with the 6600GT AGP come from the OC'ed VRAM? Did you test that?
geforce 6600GT finally got me off the geforce2 gts I was using 4 was already old, 5 sucked and when 6 series were right price, right performance and at about the time that games that absolutely required shaders started to be commonplace
I still keep my 6600GT ( model from *Albatron* ).
Ohh , the memories ....
The whole GF FX is interesting, they tried something and failed. So I give Nvidia that, they TRIED something. To bad that it didn't conform to the dx9 standards. And that it was more optimized for dx8 in design then what dx9 could do.
But yeah, it had some BRIGHT ideas.
Yea, mistake is still a take. Look how innovative was gaming market in late 90s/early 00s. Nowadays they just put another open-world game with trophies or remastered version of something that doesn't even need a remaster.
Does anyone know and can please tell me what demo is playing at 2:11? I'd be really thankfull
That is a flyby test for Painkiller
And to think that at the time I had FX5200 64bit version.... Dayum...... Later i got FX5700LE but it was barely any better. I couldn't understand why.....
I had a 5200 as well. Pain and suffering...
As someone that went from a Ti4200 to FX5200 64bit and then FX5900... I found even halving the memory bus from 128bit to 64bit completely destroyed those 5200 cards which were weak to begin with... In newer cards faster ram speeds help make up for halving of memory bandwidth hence your 2 cards in performance not much different. Now if you went to a 5700Ultra it would have been night and day difference to that 5200 you had.
@@tigerdefensesystems I remember going from GeForce 2 MX200 to FX 5200 thinking i was going to play some games. No luck... Later down the line i switched sides and went for ATI X700 which was fast and served me well for 2 years before finally dying and making me buy GTX 8800GTS. That one was a beast!!!! Good times!
@@neurokremmilan one thing you have to remember that the MX series cards in 200 and 400 series.. they didnt have any pixel and vertex shaders... they would in some cases run games faster under certain titles if they didnt require a PS/VS shader card. Every single FX or 5000 series cards had PS/VS at the time and that really hampered the FX5200 at the time. I went from GF2 MX200 to GF4 MX400 to Ti4200 to FX5200 then FX5900... I couldnt figure out either why my FX5200 sucked so bad even compared to Ti4200... well between PS/VS shader architecture, the neutred 64bit memory bus really crippled that 5200. This was all before I really studied to learn how all the cards work, but yeah ATI really put the hurt on Nvidia during that year or so until the 6000 series.
@@tigerdefensesystems yea, those MX were DX7 . They only did TnL, no Ps or Vs whatsoever. They were ok for 2001. Before that I had good ol' TNT Riva 2 , 32 mb. Crazy little thing . Paired with Celeron 2 on 733mhz with 128mb ram. It was a beast. Well, it wasn't , but i was a kid. Pretty light could get me high at the time 🙂
Dude your channel deserves more subs and views. Good luck on the channel!
Really cool video. Also wondering what os you tested on...? At present my agp builds are set up to be Windows 98 monsters, since I have much newer hardware for Windows xp. One being an Athlon xp 3200+ and the other an Athlon 64 3700+.
The xp with the 6600gt, final driver to final driver, is _faster at Aquamark 3_ than the X850 XT pe, on my a64 build. It's kind of bonkers how bad the Radeon is/was in opengl.
Glad you enjoyed it! Full system info is in the description
The FX5800 wasn't all that bad. At least you could use is as heater your to warm room up in cold winters during those long play sessions.
I think the normal 6600 would be more realistic for 2002 Nvidia but with PS2.0
What if someone builded a AIO water cooled FX 5800 :-P
have you been able to find any FX series cards with PCI E? according to what im seeing online a few were released but man i cant find anything on them.
Edit: i also have a maximum pc magazine from feb 2003 where they got to test a pre release FX5800 and some of the benchmarks they show, show it beating the 9700Pro but every single benchmark ive ever seen shows it loosing to the 9700 pretty badly.
FX series cards on PCIe were called PCX series cards, and there were only a few models which pop up pretty irregularly on eBay. It's more common to find Quadro equivalents like the Quadro FX 1300.
@@PixelPipes yeah i was just reading up on them, i found a single website that had several in stock but all of them were over $100 to $150 and some were even $200, way to much to buy as a novelty.
i actually just bought a couple of quadros that are equivilent to the 6800 and 5800 because they are 1/4 the price.
I don't know why AMD/ATI didn't go after NVidia as well.
2:11 what's that game/benchmark? 🤔
hey i have an old pentium 4 system that I want to use as a old-school test bench. the chip in particular is the pentium 4 SL7PK, and the mobo I have only has PCI on it. any help would be appriceated!
The best things you can do is put a GeForce FX 5200 PCI.
Precisely why I just use a 750ti in my XP rig.
3:48 what was that game
Doom 3
I spot the Arya, what's the blue one?
also I had a 6600GT that I watercooled and glued BGA RAMsinks to, then overclocked it to the very edge of stability... good times
That is a Drop Edition XX next to a Stanton Dynaphase Sixty from the early 70s
Some nitpicking on the video production: your shutter speed seem too fast, making the motion jerky. It's best to stick to 180 degree shutter angle, this video from DPReview might be of some help: th-cam.com/video/X4vg1Qmb0Eg/w-d-xo.html
I just use a smartphone, which sadly doesn't have a setting for that. Thanks for the suggestion anyway