I did some number crunching, and totalled the results of each graph. 15 points for first place, 14 points for second, 13 points for third and so on. Any that had 50 points less than the leader were immediately out of the competition. Here are the results: 9500GT: 127 GT520: 127 GT430: 121 210: 113 HD5450: 104 HD4350: 90 8400GS: 86 HD3450: XXX 9250: XXX X1550: XXX HD2400: XXX X1300: XXX 6200: XXX FX5500128: XXX FX550064: XXX So, what're the TL;DR's from these numbers? If you're wanting the best performance bar none, the 9500GT and the GT520 are your go-to's. The GT 430's there if you can't find either of those, with the 210 being a backup for the backup. The HD5450 is the best card for the AMD fans, with the 4350 being their backup. Footnote: What I find incredible is that the 9500 GT, a card from 2009, has performance comparing to an R5 230, a PCI-E card from April 2014! So, all the way into 2014, you could get graphics better than PCI-E off of PCI!
@His Masters Voice There are actually a lot of groups that this video targets 1: Hardware Enthusiasts 2: Retro Gamers 3: People looking to upgrade older systems only equipped with PCI slots (me) Just because this video isn't suited to you doesn't automatically make it a bad video.
I have the Galaxy PCIe variant of the 9500GT. That card did what ever I needed it to do, and went into a glorious retirement when it revealed its limits when running The Sims 3, as did the rest of the system (AMD Athlon 64 X2 and 4 gigs of DDR2 800 clock memory).
This is a video I can see being incredibly helpful in a topic that many of us have looked into but can't quite find a solid consensus on all of the cards. I'm really surprised by some of that 9500GT, the Performance, and the rarity of it are really something special for PCI. Brilliant Video.
Interesting Comparison! I missed the matrox PCI cards and a view towards retro-compatibility like "8Bit palletized textures", working win9x drivers.... Such a testing rig would also be interesting for "agp-lowprofile" and "PCIe Lowprofile".
Nice find on the 9500 GT, I had a friend that begged me to help him find one for his family computer so he could upgrade over the the geforce 6200 we put in there a few years before. I learned a lot about PCI graphics back then and it's nice to see a refresher so many years later.
6200 is a nerfed 6600gt die and could often be flashed back to 6600gt unlocking the extra pipes and faster clocks. That would be interesting to see as a future PCI contender!
I have the geforce 6200 bought 3 months ago! Nice to see how it stacks up to the others. Its a bloody minefield trying to find a pci card thats not a bloody express slot!! Grrrr! Too many listings incorrectly stating wrong connector listing as a pci and not as a pcie or pci-express!!
I wonder if using a PCI to PCIe Adapter Card (combined with a PCIe x1 Cable Adapter which are equipped with a Berg Connector for extra power) would produce better results than the "native" PCI GPUs? Recently picked up a Sparkle 9500 GT PCI card, and a $60 GT 610 PCI card with 1GB still on eBay. Awesome Videos!
Love revisiting old graphics cards, somehow it's just a bit more interesting than current times when it was the wild west of graphics engines and hardware support. I want to try and find an old Dell Dimension tower for a retro P4 build, or somehow build my old college computer with an XP 2600+ and Radeon 9700 XT... many good memories overclocking and maxing out that system! Keep it up, really enjoy your videos!
My first card was a GeForce 6200 PCI from BFG. Put it in my families Dell to play Quake 4 (lol). Card was just enough to game on low circa 2006-07. 128MB and overclocked!
Just finally after years built my old DOS/98 system took forever to find the parts. Socket 478 pentium 4 2.6 ghz, 512 MB ram and an ATI 7000 64 mb AGP and intel board with the 865pe chipset. with a dual boot of winXP to get use out of a WinTV capture card.
I didn't know they were making GPUs for old PCI so long time, when I had motherboard with PCI only I would really appreciate that. The best what I found was some S3 with 8 MB VRAM. It was cca in 2004. But it could run AvP 1 on low. :-D 3300 points in 3D Mark 2005 with PCI GPU, that's crazy! Why was that so rare when it has obviously some performance? It would be perfect for office PCs without AGP or PCI-e in that time.
This interests me probably more than it should because I've had a bunch of Radeon and pre Radeon cards over the years. 3D Rage II +, Rage 128 Pro, Radeon VE, Radeon X300, Radeon X600, Radeon X1300 Pro Radeon HD 2400 PRO, Radeon HD4670, Radeon HD5670, Radeon HD6670. The more mainstream ones that I've had are Radeon 32MB SDR, Radeon 8500, Radeon 9100, Radeon 9600 Pro Radeon 9800 PRO/XT, Radeon HD3870x2, Radeon RX 550, Radeon RX 570. Most of mine were AGP or PCIe though. I had only a handful of PCI ones and they were 3dFx and nVidia.
Awesome job. I recently picked up a old Packard Bell matching desktop P3 and it only has pci so I've been struggling with picking and finding a card for it. This helps a bunch.
Thanks for this great benchmark series, I was really curious about them. It would have been even better with some comparison with the same PCI-Express or AGP cards to see what kind of bottleneck PCI gives.
This was a very interesting video. Strange to see such massive variation. And as for Far Cry, that just makes absolutely no sense, completely confusing.
Back in 2003 I feel In love with call of duty and far cry! PCI based graphics card would perform terribly! Studders and refusal to run! So I bought the most expensive card I could find! Ati 9800 pro agp! Answer to all problems!
I keep it glued to this channel. But sadly, after 6 years, we still didn’t get another pci gpu video. Even though it was announced. GeForce 4mx pci and TNT ultra pci would be interesting to see! Also maybe pci to pcie adapters, if they exist.
Cool video. The last PCI card I used was a Voodoo II 3DFX with an Onboard SiS6326? 8MB Video on a Pentium III 500Mhz system in 1999. I can't remember the brand of the motherboard but it had a SiS chipset with integrated graphics and Cmedia Audio, I had to purchased a SB Audio PCI card as the integrated Audio did not support my Sidewinder Pro FF Joystick. It was a beast at the time. spent a lot time at Novaworld playing F16, Mig29 and F22 III via 33/56K Dialup.. thanks for the memories man..
Nice, now I'll have an actual direction for what to buy for my trusty ol' 98 machine to get it off of the (reasonably capable) SiS integrated graphics.
Interesting and revealing comparison! Due to your talk about the compatibility of new drivers with older games, which degrade performance on newer video cards, you could have used older drivers for some of the video cards tested. Like the 45.23 for the fx5500 and the 7.11 for the x1300/x1550/HD2400
Got a free Radeon 7000 from someone and was excited to put it in an old PC... only to find that this PC on has PCI slots and no AGP slots. This is helping me land on the FX5500 for this old XP machine and see how it goes.
Nice test. Tho, for practical reason, if someone wants PCI ard I would recommend those which are older and do not use any bridge (like PLX) to operate, aka native AGP chips (which is natively backwards compatible with PCI). I have seen many of those cards with bridges work bad on older chipsets. Another thing is windows 98 support. Getting a PCI card with no win98 is eh... questionable. The bad thing about the modern DX10+ ones is that they are only good for 2D desktop extension, some may argue some gaming, but the bandwidth of PCI is so low you cannot even play videos on them HD videos desync or run slow or stop playing. PCI is a huge bottleneck, when it died off I would say it was the right time. Even the latest PCI cards which back in the day showed little to none bottleneck (like Vooodoo5) later became bottlenecked as faster CPUs arrived. Even voodoo5 has massively improved min fps in a bit more modern engines (like UT2004) if ran in PCI-X slot where it can run on 66mhz vs 33mhz of standard PCI. And this was the least bottlenecked card as it natively only runs as PCI66 in AGP and does not utilize any AGP features. On the other cards the impact is much worse.
Ok now it's time to present: 15 weirdest like DisplayLInk on USB or external GPU via ExpressCard or even Matrox Display Extenders via LAN? Thunderbolt enabled.. USB to PCIE adapters are used for mining are those USB3 links playable?
@@PixelPipes You don't have to apologize man, just pulling your leg. Got a hankering for some classic GPU info videos and I burned through all of yours too fast lol.
So I bought one of the no name FX 5500 cards you showed and it wouldn't work in one pc. So I bought a BGF 5500 and it worked perfectly. Well I liked the cooler on the no name better so I went to swap them and guess what I found? The no name FX 5500 is actually a 5200 chip. I'm curious if it even actually has 256MB of ram or not since the 5200 was supposed to support 128.
i know its been several years and i know it would be a pain to go back and do this all over again, but it would have been interesting to see overclocked results, assuming there was enough power provided by the pci slot to even get any sort of overclocks on these cards.
The one card that i love out of the bunch are the 9500gt.I have a pci-e version of the card which i oc'd to match my 9800gt card.Really solid overclocker :D
@@PixelPipes I'm sure it was a time consuming project. Hell, I'm dreading having to go through all of them to see which ones support Windows 98SE lol. I'd like to see the limits on Windows 98SE, restricted to the PCI bus, for say, a system that couldn't make the XP jump.
@@PixelPipes Thanks for the shortcut. I'm sure I'll look into each one, before it's over as I'm sure they all have their own little nuances. At least I have an idea of what to keep an eye out for. Keep up the great content!
Could be something wrong with the AXLE FX5500 PCI (256mb/128bit)? Wanted to use it in a GA-586-TX3 Board with K6-2 400 cpu but it won´t boot up neither displaying. The Card has 2 Notches (3.3v & 5V).
@Dalle Smalhals Standard socket 7 66mhz system bus speed. Yes i think that is the case. Meanwhile I bought a used g450 pci. How can I change the resolution to 1680x1050 in windows98? There is no option
Okay. I've done my research, watched your videos, and since you seem especially knowledgeable on the subject I could really use some stellar advice, if you don't mind. :) I have an old Dell Dimension B110 that was basically a donation that I am upgrading to maximum specs as far as I can take it as an interesting hobby. I realize that upgrading it isn't the most financially-sensible venture in the long run, but anyone who tells me "You'd be better off buying a new computer" is missing the point. I already know that. ;) Long story short, the only major thing left that I need in this thing is a good graphics card. Seeing as how the B110 comes with only PCI slots and no AGT slots, and seeing as how I only have one PCI slot left I want to make sure that I get the best graphics card that this computer can handle. I realize that I'm not going to get away with playing modern-day resource-intensive games, but I'm mostly a retro-emulator kind of person and FPSs have never really interested me anyway. ;) I just want something that could be a viable replacement for the Intel Extreme Graphics driver that's native to the motherboard. So my two choices, after much research, have come down to the ZOTAC ZT-40605-10L GeForce GT 430 and also the SPARKLE SP95GT1024D2LHP GeForce 9500 GT. Looking at the specs of both cards, I'm quite frankly torn, because there are so many advantages and disadvantages to each one. The GT430 appears to have much better specs... 96 cores as opposed to the 9500GTs 32, Direct X11 as opposed to Direct X10, Open GL 4.1 as opposed to Open GL 2.1, and less power consumption requirements (Which I am prepared and willing to compensate for one way or the other). However, the 9500GT I'm looking at has two major things going for it that the GT430 doesn't... memory size and memory bandwidth. 1GB of memory as opposed to the GT430s 512 and 128-bit memory bandwidth as opposed to 64-bit. You say that the GT430, in a different video, is one of the fastest PCI cards made, but your video shows the 9500GT clearly outperforming it in most applications. And according to those who populate this forum ( www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=58022&start=21 ) getting the "fastest" PCI card may not be the best idea since a lot of the GT430s superior features and performance would be held back by its memory bandwidth restrictions as opposed to the 9500GT. Your video also seems to support this. Features are nice, but at the end of the day I am looking for the absolute best performer that I can get through the lowly PCI slot. ;) Power requirements are either not an issue or one I am ready and prepared to address. I am also working with 2GB of onboard memory and a Pentium 4 3.4Ghz SL793 Northwood CPU, so I'm plenty covered there. :) So my question: Which, in your professional and personal opinion, would be the better card to pull the trigger on? I really need a consultation here, which I thank you for in advance. At $147 a pop I want to make sure I get this right the first time. ;) Also, thank you for posting your videos, they have been very informative. Take care. EDIT: Lest you wonder... ;) www.vgastore.com/1006051/zotac-zt_40605_10l-geforce-gt-430-fermi-512mb-64-bit-ddr3-pci-hdcp-ready-video-card?gclid=eaiaiqobchmi1jpgkk7h4aivdo3ich1lbgtweakyasabegjf6fd_bwe www.vgastore.com/2016349/sparkle-sp95gt1024d2lhp-geforce-9500-gt-1gb-128-bit-ddr2-pci-hdcp-ready-low-profile-ready-video-card?gclid=eaiaiqobchmi06-yuzf04aivriagch1xwqfveaqybsabegkfevd_bwe EDIT 2: Running Windows XP Professional SP3 on this machine. Would certainly love the ability to run Windows 7 also, but if I can't it isn't a major dealbreaker. ;)
The 9500GT is marginally faster overall. The limited memory bandwidth holds the GT 430 back too much. Even the GT 520/610 can be faster sometimes because the memory is clocked a little higher.
Can you test all the fastest AGP cards as well? -- Would also like to see a test system with the fastest, first quad core CPU you can find along with cheap modern / older but still-with-driver support PCI express cards you can find?
late AGP cards are nonsense because there war CPU bottleneck, if you have Pentium 4 or something like that (TOP cpu in AGP times) then 2007 GPUs are already bottlenecked.
So out of these cards only 6200 and 9250 (and older) are supported by Win98, right? It's funny how in 2023 it's easier and cheaper to get an ISA card rather than a decent PCI one. O tempora, o mores!
I would like to have a lot of old gpus like you Right now I only have Nvidia Quadro fx 1400 Nvidia GeForce fx 5500 Ati Radeon x1300 (HP OEM card) AMD Radeon hd 6350 (Dell OEM ) And my gaming rig gpu Nvidia gtx 1060
I purchased that Zotac 430 a long time ago to use in a mini ITX computer which had the Intel DG41 mainboard. And I could not get it to work right, it seemed like it was painfully slow, like it didn't have proper drivers or something. And I got black screens with any game launch, so either it was incompatible or bad. In my 200MMX machine with an Asus tx97 I currently use one of those 5500FX 128 bit cards as anything newer will not work on this board, and at that certain revisions wont work either. I had hoped it would have shown better performance in this roundup though :(
What do you think about making 'Retro PhysX acceleration test'? I mean Physx acceleration by PCI cards, and maybe for comparison PCI-E x1 cards, of course while accompanied by AGP graphics card like Radeon HD3850 (I saw that you have Sapphire, unfortunately not HIS IceQ 3 Turbo.) Hmm ASUS A8V-X / A8V-MX
@@PixelPipes Sorry, that I wasn't precise. I was asking about comparison of PhysX acceleration done by PCI graphics cards set as dedicated PhysX cards. ( 9500GT vs GT430 vs GT520 ) In my opinion it's also interesting how much bandwidth between accelerator and CPU is needed- that's why I mentioned PCI-E x1. You did great comparison between PCI, PCI-E x1 and PCI-E x16 GT520. I think that it would be also interesting to see comparison between PCI-E x1 and PCI-E x16 for fast graphics card set as dedicated PhysX card. As far as I know, there was close to no difference between Ageia PhysX cards no matter which version- interface, and PPU clock. There is also probably only less than 20 game titles which can use it. I really like an idea of PPU which can calculate whole library of physics, like Ageia PhysX 100, and hate an idea of dividing it between GPU and CPU. I don't know if mixing good ideas and bad ideas in one comparison is the right thing to do. It's like comparing good idea of hardware accelerated simulated audio environment of A3D 2.0/ 3.0 (I saw that you have Aureal Vortex 2.) to any more modern parametric model (doesn't matter if hardware or software accelerated)- the first suitable thing to compare seems to be TrueAudio Next. History shows that good ideas and companies behind them are fated in one particular way.
To add to my previous comment, check this for sub test: th-cam.com/video/AC-ExFnAgXo/w-d-xo.html I'm impressed. Doesn't go close to 20 Hz obviously but it's $40 for a sub and two speakers and that's an audiophile test. I'm just impressed with the actual sound for the money paid. High pitch doesn't go anywhere near 20k either but they don't crackle or anything they just fade out, and the sound they do cover sounds good. For 40 bucks its not bad.
Like for this video. But honestly, I don’t understand videos about pci cards. For me this era ended with Pentium 2. Put where this cards? To socket 7 platform?
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
I did some number crunching, and totalled the results of each graph. 15 points for first place, 14 points for second, 13 points for third and so on. Any that had 50 points less than the leader were immediately out of the competition. Here are the results:
9500GT: 127
GT520: 127
GT430: 121
210: 113
HD5450: 104
HD4350: 90
8400GS: 86
HD3450: XXX
9250: XXX
X1550: XXX
HD2400: XXX
X1300: XXX
6200: XXX
FX5500128: XXX
FX550064: XXX
So, what're the TL;DR's from these numbers? If you're wanting the best performance bar none, the 9500GT and the GT520 are your go-to's. The GT 430's there if you can't find either of those, with the 210 being a backup for the backup. The HD5450 is the best card for the AMD fans, with the 4350 being their backup.
Footnote: What I find incredible is that the 9500 GT, a card from 2009, has performance comparing to an R5 230, a PCI-E card from April 2014! So, all the way into 2014, you could get graphics better than PCI-E off of PCI!
Haha love the analysis! Thanks!
@GRUMPY OLD BASTARD Well, at least the name of your channel matches the attitude you have.
@His Masters Voice There are actually a lot of groups that this video targets
1: Hardware Enthusiasts
2: Retro Gamers
3: People looking to upgrade older systems only equipped with PCI slots (me)
Just because this video isn't suited to you doesn't automatically make it a bad video.
I have the Galaxy PCIe variant of the 9500GT. That card did what ever I needed it to do, and went into a glorious retirement when it revealed its limits when running The Sims 3, as did the rest of the system (AMD Athlon 64 X2 and 4 gigs of DDR2 800 clock memory).
Thank you so much. You've just saved me so much time.
This is a video I can see being incredibly helpful in a topic that many of us have looked into but can't quite find a solid consensus on all of the cards.
I'm really surprised by some of that 9500GT, the Performance, and the rarity of it are really something special for PCI.
Brilliant Video.
One ISA-only motherboard owner disliked this video.
you mean 3 owners of only PCI-E slots dislikes this video :D
@@intel386DX he means 5 owners of AGP slot only disliked this video :-D
@@Pidalin hehe it is not postible for the mothearbord with AGP to not have a regular PCIs :) :D
@@intel386DX ok Sherlock :-D
@@Pidalin elementary Watson :D
He actually did it the absolute madman
Thanks for the massive amount of testing and time invested in this project!
wow!! tremendous work, what we saw in two minutes of graphics must have taken many days of testing
Yes. Yes it did. Glad you liked it!
Interesting Comparison! I missed the matrox PCI cards and a view towards retro-compatibility like "8Bit palletized textures", working win9x drivers....
Such a testing rig would also be interesting for "agp-lowprofile" and "PCIe Lowprofile".
Nice find on the 9500 GT, I had a friend that begged me to help him find one for his family computer so he could upgrade over the the geforce 6200 we put in there a few years before. I learned a lot about PCI graphics back then and it's nice to see a refresher so many years later.
6200 is a nerfed 6600gt die and could often be flashed back to 6600gt unlocking the extra pipes and faster clocks. That would be interesting to see as a future PCI contender!
That age of empires 2 soundtrack is just PERFECT for this video! Big thumps up from me!!! :)
I have the geforce 6200 bought 3 months ago! Nice to see how it stacks up to the others.
Its a bloody minefield trying to find a pci card thats not a bloody express slot!! Grrrr! Too many listings incorrectly stating wrong connector listing as a pci and not as a pcie or pci-express!!
Is the music in the beginning "Drizzle (Firelight Smoove Mix)"?
Good old age of empires II :-)
Crazy to see that the X1300 on a C2D has about the same performance, according to 3DMark2001SE, as my GF4 Ti on a first generation P4 had at the time.
I wonder if using a PCI to PCIe Adapter Card (combined with a PCIe x1 Cable Adapter which are equipped with a Berg Connector for extra power) would produce better results than the "native" PCI GPUs? Recently picked up a Sparkle 9500 GT PCI card, and a $60 GT 610 PCI card with 1GB still on eBay. Awesome Videos!
I've had suggestions over the years to try one of those adapters, but I haven't had much personal interest in it
Love revisiting old graphics cards, somehow it's just a bit more interesting than current times when it was the wild west of graphics engines and hardware support. I want to try and find an old Dell Dimension tower for a retro P4 build, or somehow build my old college computer with an XP 2600+ and Radeon 9700 XT... many good memories overclocking and maxing out that system!
Keep it up, really enjoy your videos!
My first card was a GeForce 6200 PCI from BFG. Put it in my families Dell to play Quake 4 (lol). Card was just enough to game on low circa 2006-07. 128MB and overclocked!
Just finally after years built my old DOS/98 system took forever to find the parts. Socket 478 pentium 4 2.6 ghz, 512 MB ram and an ATI 7000 64 mb AGP and intel board with the 865pe chipset. with a dual boot of winXP to get use out of a WinTV capture card.
Haven't seen the video for the moment but I give you my thumb up ! Keep up dude as always ;)
I didn't know they were making GPUs for old PCI so long time, when I had motherboard with PCI only I would really appreciate that. The best what I found was some S3 with 8 MB VRAM. It was cca in 2004. But it could run AvP 1 on low. :-D 3300 points in 3D Mark 2005 with PCI GPU, that's crazy! Why was that so rare when it has obviously some performance? It would be perfect for office PCs without AGP or PCI-e in that time.
ps: "geforce 95 hundred" without text help I wouldn't know how much is that, English can be very weird :-D
This interests me probably more than it should because I've had a bunch of Radeon and pre Radeon cards over the years. 3D Rage II +, Rage 128 Pro, Radeon VE, Radeon X300, Radeon X600, Radeon X1300 Pro Radeon HD 2400 PRO, Radeon HD4670, Radeon HD5670, Radeon HD6670. The more mainstream ones that I've had are Radeon 32MB SDR, Radeon 8500, Radeon 9100, Radeon 9600 Pro Radeon 9800 PRO/XT, Radeon HD3870x2, Radeon RX 550, Radeon RX 570. Most of mine were AGP or PCIe though. I had only a handful of PCI ones and they were 3dFx and nVidia.
Awesome job. I recently picked up a old Packard Bell matching desktop P3 and it only has pci so I've been struggling with picking and finding a card for it. This helps a bunch.
Nice video! I also enjoyed the Age of empires background music! Keep up the good content!
Love the ages of empires music in the background 😅
Thanks for this great benchmark series, I was really curious about them.
It would have been even better with some comparison with the same PCI-Express or AGP cards to see what kind of bottleneck PCI gives.
Great video. Saved a Dell Dimension 2400 from landfill. I'll let rhe new owner know what pci cards are available.
Can you run some HL2 with PIII-S 1.4Ghz with these cards?
I do not own such a CPU, sorry
Great work man! Some of these results I absolutely would not have expected. Also shows just how important drivers can be.
The driver story with PCI cards is SUUUPER sketchy. It made for some difficult moments.
One if not the most watched video on TH-cam for me
Wow great pci video
GREAT VIDEO!
This is what you have been working on. I can't wait till pixel box ep 9!
Some cards I'am watching first time in PCI version. Nice collection. Reason why I have almost nothing = all PCI cards sitting in AUS :-D
I would take some of your rare cards over any of my PCI cards!
Haha I know :-)
This was a very interesting video. Strange to see such massive variation. And as for Far Cry, that just makes absolutely no sense, completely confusing.
Back in 2003 I feel In love with call of duty and far cry! PCI based graphics card would perform terribly! Studders and refusal to run! So I bought the most expensive card I could find! Ati 9800 pro agp! Answer to all problems!
I keep it glued to this channel. But sadly, after 6 years, we still didn’t get another pci gpu video. Even though it was announced. GeForce 4mx pci and TNT ultra pci would be interesting to see! Also maybe pci to pcie adapters, if they exist.
Why did they continue making PCI video cards but not AGP cards?
Cool video. The last PCI card I used was a Voodoo II 3DFX with an Onboard SiS6326? 8MB Video on a Pentium III 500Mhz system in 1999. I can't remember the brand of the motherboard but it had a SiS chipset with integrated graphics and Cmedia Audio, I had to purchased a SB Audio PCI card as the integrated Audio did not support my Sidewinder Pro FF Joystick. It was a beast at the time. spent a lot time at Novaworld playing F16, Mig29 and F22 III via 33/56K Dialup.. thanks for the memories man..
Love your vids man, glad you're back!
Thank you for waiting patiently!
@@PixelPipes cheers mate
Nice, now I'll have an actual direction for what to buy for my trusty ol' 98 machine to get it off of the (reasonably capable) SiS integrated graphics.
Interesting and revealing comparison! Due to your talk about the compatibility of new drivers with older games, which degrade performance on newer video cards, you could have used older drivers for some of the video cards tested.
Like the 45.23 for the fx5500 and the 7.11 for the x1300/x1550/HD2400
Got a free Radeon 7000 from someone and was excited to put it in an old PC... only to find that this PC on has PCI slots and no AGP slots. This is helping me land on the FX5500 for this old XP machine and see how it goes.
Well done. I think I've watched this video four times already. Some of those cards are really expensive. You're effort is greatly appreciated.
Solid video as usual--thanks!
Holy shit, that OG CRT monitor brings back memories!
Back when 1024x768 was an impressive resolution... *LMFAO*
Nice test. Tho, for practical reason, if someone wants PCI ard I would recommend those which are older and do not use any bridge (like PLX) to operate, aka native AGP chips (which is natively backwards compatible with PCI). I have seen many of those cards with bridges work bad on older chipsets. Another thing is windows 98 support. Getting a PCI card with no win98 is eh... questionable.
The bad thing about the modern DX10+ ones is that they are only good for 2D desktop extension, some may argue some gaming, but the bandwidth of PCI is so low you cannot even play videos on them HD videos desync or run slow or stop playing. PCI is a huge bottleneck, when it died off I would say it was the right time. Even the latest PCI cards which back in the day showed little to none bottleneck (like Vooodoo5) later became bottlenecked as faster CPUs arrived. Even voodoo5 has massively improved min fps in a bit more modern engines (like UT2004) if ran in PCI-X slot where it can run on 66mhz vs 33mhz of standard PCI. And this was the least bottlenecked card as it natively only runs as PCI66 in AGP and does not utilize any AGP features. On the other cards the impact is much worse.
Well it will nuke you minimal framerates.
Which one is better? The Zotac Geforce GT 610 PCI 512MB or the Jaton Geforce 9500GT PCI 1GB?
Ok now it's time to present: 15 weirdest like DisplayLInk on USB or external GPU via ExpressCard or even Matrox Display Extenders via LAN? Thunderbolt enabled.. USB to PCIE adapters are used for mining are those USB3 links playable?
Don't know, I never messed with any of that stuff you mentioned.
thanks, it is way to hard to find stuff about pci cards. i need something for my 1ghz celeron pc i got for $10
I really enjoyed especially the 9250 passing through from the bottom to the top.
PixelPipes! Where you at? Hopefully working on that Windows 98SE/PCI GPU gaming build lol.
I didn't go anywhere! I just can't give as much time as I would like to my channel. I apologize to my viewers for that.
@@PixelPipes You don't have to apologize man, just pulling your leg. Got a hankering for some classic GPU info videos and I burned through all of yours too fast lol.
NICE AOE background music
Seems weird there are GF 8xxx and above cards on PCI but not AGP.
Good job ! thanks for spending the time and money on this.
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
NO WAY I HAVE A FX 5500 thats funny that this got recommended to me
As a huge bonus GT520 can decode up to 4K h264 video.
Fantastic video!
So wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for showing me what I can do with my old computer.
great video!!! didn t xpect that the pci slot has that performance left in it
great vid, thanks a lot.
I used a HD4550 for a long time
Enjoyed this, should do again with year of release for period correct enthusiasts. My interest atm is the 2001 ATI Radeon 9250 and co.
Oh yeah, we call that Tom's Hardware.
So I bought one of the no name FX 5500 cards you showed and it wouldn't work in one pc. So I bought a BGF 5500 and it worked perfectly. Well I liked the cooler on the no name better so I went to swap them and guess what I found? The no name FX 5500 is actually a 5200 chip. I'm curious if it even actually has 256MB of ram or not since the 5200 was supposed to support 128.
Makes sense as the core clock on mine was 250MHz, same as the 5200. A 5500 would be clocked at 270MHz
i know its been several years and i know it would be a pain to go back and do this all over again, but it would have been interesting to see overclocked results, assuming there was enough power provided by the pci slot to even get any sort of overclocks on these cards.
The one card that i love out of the bunch are the 9500gt.I have a pci-e version of the card which i oc'd to match my 9800gt card.Really solid overclocker :D
Was wondering if you had abandoned the PCI GPU prospect. Glad to see you haven't!
I had SO many obstacles but I'm glad I could finish it. Thank you!
@@PixelPipes I'm sure it was a time consuming project. Hell, I'm dreading having to go through all of them to see which ones support Windows 98SE lol. I'd like to see the limits on Windows 98SE, restricted to the PCI bus, for say, a system that couldn't make the XP jump.
@@AtariBorn The GeForce 6200 may be your best option but I haven't fully investigated these cards in 98
@@PixelPipes Thanks for the shortcut. I'm sure I'll look into each one, before it's over as I'm sure they all have their own little nuances. At least I have an idea of what to keep an eye out for. Keep up the great content!
TH-cam for real... an ad at the beginning and one 27 seconds into the video... great start youtube... you are realling pushing the premium platform...
Age of Empires 2 Music! Shamburger!
Nice video - Nice collection of cards.
Hello, i'm from Brazil, i'm seaching to buy one of the first 4 GPUs, but i couldn't find :(
hey NEC i3 3220 i want a video card pci whats a good one thats cheap
Please do the same for VLB, ISA-16 and ISA-8. Your vintage viewers will love you!
Could be something wrong with the AXLE FX5500 PCI (256mb/128bit)? Wanted to use it in a GA-586-TX3 Board with K6-2 400 cpu but it won´t boot up neither displaying. The Card has 2 Notches (3.3v & 5V).
@Dalle Smalhals Standard socket 7 66mhz system bus speed.
Yes i think that is the case. Meanwhile I bought a used g450 pci. How can I change the resolution to 1680x1050 in windows98? There is no option
How do you find these?
Clicked for pci benchmarks, stayed for Age of Empires 2 music
Okay. I've done my research, watched your videos, and since you seem especially knowledgeable on the subject I could really use some stellar advice, if you don't mind. :)
I have an old Dell Dimension B110 that was basically a donation that I am upgrading to maximum specs as far as I can take it as an interesting hobby. I realize that upgrading it isn't the most financially-sensible venture in the long run, but anyone who tells me "You'd be better off buying a new computer" is missing the point. I already know that. ;)
Long story short, the only major thing left that I need in this thing is a good graphics card. Seeing as how the B110 comes with only PCI slots and no AGT slots, and seeing as how I only have one PCI slot left I want to make sure that I get the best graphics card that this computer can handle.
I realize that I'm not going to get away with playing modern-day resource-intensive games, but I'm mostly a retro-emulator kind of person and FPSs have never really interested me anyway. ;) I just want something that could be a viable replacement for the Intel Extreme Graphics driver that's native to the motherboard.
So my two choices, after much research, have come down to the ZOTAC ZT-40605-10L GeForce GT 430 and also the SPARKLE SP95GT1024D2LHP GeForce 9500 GT. Looking at the specs of both cards, I'm quite frankly torn, because there are so many advantages and disadvantages to each one.
The GT430 appears to have much better specs... 96 cores as opposed to the 9500GTs 32, Direct X11 as opposed to Direct X10, Open GL 4.1 as opposed to Open GL 2.1, and less power consumption requirements (Which I am prepared and willing to compensate for one way or the other). However, the 9500GT I'm looking at has two major things going for it that the GT430 doesn't... memory size and memory bandwidth. 1GB of memory as opposed to the GT430s 512 and 128-bit memory bandwidth as opposed to 64-bit. You say that the GT430, in a different video, is one of the fastest PCI cards made, but your video shows the 9500GT clearly outperforming it in most applications. And according to those who populate this forum ( www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=58022&start=21 ) getting the "fastest" PCI card may not be the best idea since a lot of the GT430s superior features and performance would be held back by its memory bandwidth restrictions as opposed to the 9500GT. Your video also seems to support this.
Features are nice, but at the end of the day I am looking for the absolute best performer that I can get through the lowly PCI slot. ;) Power requirements are either not an issue or one I am ready and prepared to address. I am also working with 2GB of onboard memory and a Pentium 4 3.4Ghz SL793 Northwood CPU, so I'm plenty covered there. :)
So my question: Which, in your professional and personal opinion, would be the better card to pull the trigger on? I really need a consultation here, which I thank you for in advance. At $147 a pop I want to make sure I get this right the first time. ;) Also, thank you for posting your videos, they have been very informative. Take care.
EDIT: Lest you wonder... ;)
www.vgastore.com/1006051/zotac-zt_40605_10l-geforce-gt-430-fermi-512mb-64-bit-ddr3-pci-hdcp-ready-video-card?gclid=eaiaiqobchmi1jpgkk7h4aivdo3ich1lbgtweakyasabegjf6fd_bwe
www.vgastore.com/2016349/sparkle-sp95gt1024d2lhp-geforce-9500-gt-1gb-128-bit-ddr2-pci-hdcp-ready-low-profile-ready-video-card?gclid=eaiaiqobchmi06-yuzf04aivriagch1xwqfveaqybsabegkfevd_bwe
EDIT 2: Running Windows XP Professional SP3 on this machine. Would certainly love the ability to run Windows 7 also, but if I can't it isn't a major dealbreaker. ;)
The 9500GT is marginally faster overall. The limited memory bandwidth holds the GT 430 back too much. Even the GT 520/610 can be faster sometimes because the memory is clocked a little higher.
Can you test all the fastest AGP cards as well?
--
Would also like to see a test system with the fastest, first quad core CPU you can find along with cheap modern / older but still-with-driver support PCI express cards you can find?
late AGP cards are nonsense because there war CPU bottleneck, if you have Pentium 4 or something like that (TOP cpu in AGP times) then 2007 GPUs are already bottlenecked.
Still there are systems with Core2 Quad Extreme QX 6800 and AGP 8x. The best 2 cards there are Radeon HD 3850 512 MB and Radeon HD 4650 1 GB.
Great work, dude. Love these videos. :)
Thanks!
What would be a good pci card for a pentium II 266 and a pentium 266 mmx system? Both are max ram .
Good old stuffs, I still can remember ma mighty X800XT. 😂😂😄
I have a ATI 2400HD in AVG slot configuration. Worked good for what little it was used.
So out of these cards only 6200 and 9250 (and older) are supported by Win98, right?
It's funny how in 2023 it's easier and cheaper to get an ISA card rather than a decent PCI one. O tempora, o mores!
There are PCI-E Cards and not stated at charts. Confusing. I need a PCI card for Socket 7 board.
There are no PCIe cards in this video
If you are running windows 98 you probably don't want the GT 430
I would like to have a lot of old gpus like you
Right now I only have
Nvidia Quadro fx 1400
Nvidia GeForce fx 5500
Ati Radeon x1300 (HP OEM card)
AMD Radeon hd 6350 (Dell OEM )
And my gaming rig gpu
Nvidia gtx 1060
What the heck man?
Donuts? AoE music? Are you trying to play dirty tricks on our minds?
graphics cards geforce 256 pci nvidia quadro1 pci geforce 2 ultra nvidia quadro2 pro pci 3dfx voodoo1 pci 3dfx voodoo2 pci riva tnt ultra pci ati mach64 pci geforce fx 5200 ultra pci geforce 3ti 200 pci nvidia quadro dcc pci geforce 6200 pci riva tnt 2 ultra pci radeon x1300 pci geforce 210 pci geforce gt 430 pci geforce 8400 gs pci are high quality graphics cards for the pci bus
The 9500GT has no windows 98 drivers witch makes it a bit useless for lost of retro builds. The 9250 on the other hand has excelent win9x drivers.
I purchased that Zotac 430 a long time ago to use in a mini ITX computer which had the Intel DG41 mainboard. And I could not get it to work right, it seemed like it was painfully slow, like it didn't have proper drivers or something. And I got black screens with any game launch, so either it was incompatible or bad. In my 200MMX machine with an Asus tx97 I currently use one of those 5500FX 128 bit cards as anything newer will not work on this board, and at that certain revisions wont work either. I had hoped it would have shown better performance in this roundup though :(
What do you think about making 'Retro PhysX acceleration test'? I mean Physx acceleration by PCI cards, and maybe for comparison PCI-E x1 cards, of course while accompanied by AGP graphics card like Radeon HD3850 (I saw that you have Sapphire, unfortunately not HIS IceQ 3 Turbo.) Hmm ASUS A8V-X / A8V-MX
I'm not planning a PhysX video unless a card falls on my lap.
@@PixelPipes Sorry, that I wasn't precise. I was asking about comparison of PhysX acceleration done by PCI graphics cards set as dedicated PhysX cards. ( 9500GT vs GT430 vs GT520 ) In my opinion it's also interesting how much bandwidth between accelerator and CPU is needed- that's why I mentioned PCI-E x1. You did great comparison between PCI, PCI-E x1 and PCI-E x16 GT520. I think that it would be also interesting to see comparison between PCI-E x1 and PCI-E x16 for fast graphics card set as dedicated PhysX card.
As far as I know, there was close to no difference between Ageia PhysX cards no matter which version- interface, and PPU clock. There is also probably only less than 20 game titles which can use it. I really like an idea of PPU which can calculate whole library of physics, like Ageia PhysX 100, and hate an idea of dividing it between GPU and CPU. I don't know if mixing good ideas and bad ideas in one comparison is the right thing to do. It's like comparing good idea of hardware accelerated simulated audio environment of A3D 2.0/ 3.0 (I saw that you have Aureal Vortex 2.) to any more modern parametric model (doesn't matter if hardware or software accelerated)- the first suitable thing to compare seems to be TrueAudio Next. History shows that good ideas and companies behind them are fated in one particular way.
Maan i screwed up badly , in 2011 bought a pre-built PC with a gt 430 and i3 with 3 gb ram, and previously i had a 9500 gt....
The PCI-E GT430 should be faster than a 9500, also you get DX11
I have a GT520 in my P4 NAS. I should think about selling either that or my PCI 9400GT 1GB.
Where i can buy pci graphics card?
I have a 9500GT in a basement box. Quite possibly the best bang for the buck GPU I'd ever purchased.
To add to my previous comment, check this for sub test: th-cam.com/video/AC-ExFnAgXo/w-d-xo.html
I'm impressed. Doesn't go close to 20 Hz obviously but it's $40 for a sub and two speakers and that's an audiophile test. I'm just impressed with the actual sound for the money paid. High pitch doesn't go anywhere near 20k either but they don't crackle or anything they just fade out, and the sound they do cover sounds good. For 40 bucks its not bad.
Thanks for this nice professional review!
Thank YOU for watching it!
I like old hardware revisited
What about Matrox Parhelia on PCI-X and the last Voodoo 5500 card?
Like for this video. But honestly, I don’t understand videos about pci cards. For me this era ended with Pentium 2. Put where this cards? To socket 7 platform?
LGA 775 boards still supported PCI bus interface. If your PCI-E card broke, this was a cheap solution.