I have used the lapping bar locked in position to the lower rings with the upper ring 1/2 and then tightened into the receiver. This holds the rings in alignment while tightening the rings to the receiver bases. Then they can be fine lapped to near perfection.
It's easy to assume that the mounting of the lower ring to the base is a precision operation. It's not. With the lower rings loose, put the lapping bar in-place. Then mount the top ring, adjusting the mechanical slop as you tighten. Once your rings are tight, tighten the lower ring to the mount. Now you're aligned. THEN loosen the upper ring and do your lapping. You'll lose less material that way.
William Heppe there is a surprising amount of miss-alignment possible with the factory mount. Which can be corrected by careful placement, like you said.
+William Heppe That's exactly the way to do it. Using the lapping bar as the initial alignment tool with the rings tightened on it before tightening the base screws. Same applies to any receiver with grooves for ring mounting.
That is not what you want to do with the Ruger rings. You want the rounded locking keys to center themselves when they are tightened. I have seen them shift on recoil to the natural low point of the curve if they are held from being centered. It can be bad enough to loosen the screw when the shift occures. Not a good design.
I installed this optic on a crossman 760 air rifle.I have now shot the riffle around 500 times during target/plinking practice, and the th-cam.com/users/postUgkxc4K63Fd5LglDMObu7-Bgapxp_ef0W8hE scope has done well.With this optic, I have neutralized around 30 pigeons that were invading one of my buildings.For my short range air rifle, I will continue to use this scope, but will be upgrading to a more powerful scope, when I buy a more powerful air rifle, in order to shoot at longer distance.For the money I have spent, this scope has truly been a great buy.
I did my scope following this instruction. I found something that you did not comment on. I had a tendency to put too much weight on the rear ring as my palm put more weight. I corrected this but had to sand off more than I should have because of this. For others doing this for the first time try to keep your pressure equal front to back. I am now going to do my other rifles. All 6. I did my .243 with a bushnell doa scope and leupold rings as it is my cheapest rig. It was out a fair bit. I used it as a test rifle and was impressed with the results. I do recommend practice with your cheapest rifle first. I now consider myself a pro LOL
wrong advise. Both ring halves need to be involved in the lapping. top and bottom ring halves. its amazing that skills and intuition has fallen off that mechanical 'common Knowedge' Is not so common. Lap Both sides of the rings!!! lap.. polish.. tighten.. lap/polish/tighten.. etc.. until BOTH ring halves are true. Then.. No worries.. and you dont have to use your eye...
creighton wade Thank you for your comment. I guess along with mechanical common knowledge, polite disagreement, research, and reading instructions are also uncommon. "Most sources say that it is not necessary to lap the tops of the rings as they are springy enough to compensate for slight misalignment." from Scpe Mounting Made Easy by Bryce M Towsley, Field Editor, published in the American Rifleman, August 2006. "Only the bottom half of the rings require lapping. The flexibility of the top half of the rings will compensate for any irregularities there." published in the instructions for "Lapping Telescope Rings", Sinclair International, Inc. That being said, other lapping directions do call for both halves of the rings to be lapped. So there is some debate on the issue.
bgallaher77 Hey, I haven't done this type of work myself, but when you put the alignment bars ontop of the lower ring halves, they have a bit of play, and the alignment they indicate differs. You'd probably want to attach the top ring halves in order to see an honest indication of alignment.
Yes, the Wheeler engineering instructions do show that the top of the rings are lapped with the bottom. However, the old timer who showed me how to do it only did the bottoms, which matched the instruction for the Sinclair International tool. Can't go wrong with the benchrest guys. My worry with the top rings on that lapping could open them up to >1inch, and then the scope wouldn't stick at all.
To suggest the scope rings would need to be lapped in would mean that the rifle was poorly made and the rings weren't already aligned and that the rings themselves were also poorly made and would not fit the scope tube. This lapping kit is just a gimmick to spend money on and after all your hard work, it won't change a thing. I've been shooting for 60 years and shooting varmints and big game out to 500 yards and never lapped a scope ring. Save your money and time and just set your scope up properly. Spend that extra money on ammo or a better scope and go shooting. You new shooters should not buy into all this needless gear and simply shoot and always wear ear and eye protection.
I never lapped my rings I have a Winchester model 70 in 308 that will shoot 3 shots in a group a little larger than a quarter at 150 yards I also never did the so called breaking in the barrel just run a patch with some hoppes 9 thru it about ever 15 to 20 shots wipe it down with a little gun oil after hunting
when I do it i tape up the gun with bubble wrap tape only contacts bubble wrap not wood stock,after im done, I take the compressor to the bubble wrap then take it off, then blow out the action just to be sure,
You dont want to push forward on ruger rings! They are a scallop cutout and need to be centred in the scallop, regardless of the recoil lug on the rings. All you are doing by lapping rings is removing coating or bluing creating a nice place for rust to form. I dont know how we managed to mount scopes years ago without all that expensive equipment and still shoot straight 😉
34 years old and the older I get and more I shoot, the more I realize the importance of things like this. In east Texas we average 100-200 yard shots but this can make a huge difference at 400-500 yard shots in places like south Texas. Thx for uploading !
Yes, you don't want any of the abrasive getting into the works of the gun. So far every time I have done this it isn't that messy. Perhaps I have just been lucky. I keep lots of paper towels around...
Based on this video, I reluctantly took off all my scopes, and checked the alignment with my freshly purchased, Wheeler Alignment/lap combo kit. WOW! All but one was really off. I lapped the rings, cleaned them up and re-set my scopes, based on leveling of the action, NOT the rings, then matched the vertical line of the reticle w/ a plumb-line hanging 30 feet away. Now my scope-tubes aren't stressed, & are perfectly level & plumb to the action & have roughly 85% contact with the ring-surface.
I have the basic MTM Caseguard vise. They might call it a cradle. It is pretty good, and I use clamps to hold it in place. MTM make some bigger cradles, but I have found the basic cradle to work for what I do. Sinclair International also makes some aluminum cradles.
You put a cloth over your barrel, action, and tang area so the lapping compoud does not get on or in the rifle. The ruger rings are the weak point of the rifle. It seems like a good design until you actually mount the rings and see they are not machined well and the tab that goes into the top of the reciever does not touch on the forward portion after the screw is torqued. The best thing you can do is wiggle the rings as the screw is tightened so the rounded locking keys center themselves and don't try and hold them in any particular position, then lap them. In some cases they can be so bad or the reciever so bad that the scope does not have enough adustment to be able to be zeroed. The other thing as can be seen on the video is check to make sure there is at least a slight gap between the upper and lower portion of the rings. If they are touching on both sides you have know way of knowing how much clamping force is on the scope. Your rear ring needs a visit to a sand belt sorry to say.
In some cases, you can recover a lot of windage and elevation clicks once the lapping is done. It will change all your settings so re-zero is necessary.
Sure it does. Checking the alignment of the points from the x y & z planes with the top rings installed, assures it. Just because you found a different, more expensive way, does not negate all other methods.
My brother got me my first rifle scope for my birthday I tried to zero the scope but the vertical is spun all the way up but the bore Lazer is still 2 points under zero. I'm not sure but I think the scope is defective, any suggestions would be appreciated.
@@bgallaher77 a rifle bore sighting Lazer is a Lazer in the shape & caliber of the firearm it points where the bullet should hit. I tried to sight in the scope using it instead of wasting rounds down range. I thought of trying to lap the scope rings in an angle instead of putting shims in the rear scope ring. But I'm gessing here.
I would just shoot it and see what happens. Cheap to do. I would not try and modify the gun. Replacing the scope is cheaper than fixing the rifle. What brand is the scope? Laser shines line of sight. Bullets have a trajectory influenced by gravity and wind resistance. the laser may not be aimed directly down the bore, so the bore sighter might give you a false indication that something is wrong.
@@bgallaher77 CenterPoint Optics LR620AORG2 Red/Green 6-20x50mm Illuminated, Adjustable Objective Riflescope With TAG Reticle And Picatinny Rings by CenterPoint Optics 3.9 out of 5 stars Price: $92.00 & FREE Shipping, Looked it up & found it on Amazon
The allignment indicator bars are really only useful when using rings like the old redfield and leupold style where the front ring rotates into position. It will show when they are aligned initially when looking down on them. After that they are not needed as the lapping process will align them. For Ruger rings you can just leave them in the case.
I wish I had a honing kit, but for the money I can't justify it. The 3/4" OD is about 1.05 not 1.18 (30 mm), but I'll use some 220 grit sandpaper to make up the difference. Everyone I talk to tells me to hone both sides and remove 40-60% of material, but check for fit throughout. Midway has a good video on this and I agree with their logic.
By aligning your scope rings, you prevent kinking the scope. You can pinch a scope and severely damage it, if the rings are grossly "out of whack." Lapping scope rings increases the contact area between the tube and the rings, which prevents slipping and also, to some extent, pinching. Neither technique will turn a beater into a bench rest rifle, but they can increase the rigidity and dependability of a scope mounting system.
What sort of performance difference/benefit does one get from this extensive process and high-end hardware? I've gotten 1 MOA with a $100 pellet rifle, using a $80 scope and $10 rings that I just tightened on and ran with. I haven't invested enough in guns to try out a $800 rifle with a $600 scope and $20+ rings and all of the equipment that this process involves. So I'm honestly asking, what different results would I see if I did?
It has more to do with not damaging the scope and preventing movement of the scope during firearm. A centerfire rifle is s lot harder on the scope mount and rings than a pellet rifle
Just watched the Midway video. I can see how doing the top and bottom would work. As long as the scope rings can still clamp down hard you are good to go. Good shooting.
is it still necessary to lap and align high quality rings? isnt that why some one would pay top dollar for precision rings so we wouldn't have to do this, or is the an entirely different method of operation for accuracy above simply leveling and mounting and bore sighting??
No, it is not necessary to lap high quality rings, if they're mounted on a high quality rail. If they're mounted directly to the receiver, it depends on how high quality the receiver milling is.
Just a suggestion for setting the cross hair just before tightening down the rings. I use a plumb bob set up on the far side of the room where I am mounting the scope. Make sure the rifle action is level. On the Ruger with it's flat bottom a level on the bottom part of receiver can be used with the stock removed. Making sure the action is level, move the scope until the vertical cross hair lines up with the plumb bob line. Fairly simple, and real inexpensive. You can use other areas on the rifle to level it also.
gadgethunter That is a pretty cool way to level a scope. I have seen the gizmos that some outfits sell and it doesn't seem like that would work. A plumb bob would definitely fit the bill.
Most those small levels are not true or the receiver is not true. You can eyeball it closer using a plumb line. Better yet is to use a mirror and pule the vertical cross hair so it intersects with the barrel then tighten it. Next step is to then put the cross hairs on a plumb line then mount a scope level so it reads level when the cross hair is aligned with the plumb line. This removes all cant errors but you do need to have a level on the scope so you know when the gun is level during shooting. Turret caps, guns receivers + poor quality levels make that method less reliable than just eyeballing the cross hairs to get it close.
Love the ruger 77 series rifles but have found the rings though great design the quality is not great, most of my 77 rifles had several rings switched out to get them aligned , I am not a fan of lapping because you remove clamping surface which is a bigger problem in my experience
Because simply doing this could simply cut your groups in half meaning a smaller chance of gut shooting your game if you pull it off on a cold morning. You see the rods out of alignment, that means when you hand tighten your screws down snug and over torque your rings, you stress the tube which makes it flex, and puts bad tension on your moving internals which negatively affects how freely your reticule moves as your adjusting your zero. If you are tapping your turrets to correct your wrong.
Good video man, I need to get the lapping and alignment tools, I wanna do it right this time, I have one of these rifles in .223 on the way for coyote hunting with a Leupold VX-3, I think it will be a good setup.
You absolutely do not have to lap those rings. The machine work on modern components is great now. I put my scope on by eye with a little level and I'm shooting sub moa groups.
Well...there are many a couch coach around these days. But I will offer you my advice to you...ditch the Wheeler Engineering Scope Alignment bars and order in a set of "Kokopelli Scope Alignment bars...twice the price but honestly...the Wheeler set does not give you true alignment....two points coming together cannot give you true alignment. O.K....yes...I did buy the Wheeler set first. But things just were not lining up alignment wise. I used the internet as it should be used and found my answer hence I bought the Kokopelli set...really nice too. I found my issue on a particular Savage action that was warped from the factory (And Savage denied this after sending the action to Savage....buyer beware!!)....I need to do a video on that action to warn other buyers of Savage rifles (Well any rifle for that matter and is simple by having a precision one piece scope mount base in hand when looking at rifles) and I have well over two dozen Savage rifles and all but the warped action are straight. The Wheeler Alignment Bars did not reveal this warped action by the way...two points came together alright...but straight isn't straight when it ain't straight!! When you are laying out hundreds of dollars for a quality scope and two to three hundred dollars for base and rings...you don't want to ruin precise scope rings (Or a scope that cost into the hundreds +++++ !) that cost $200.00 by using a tool that cost $50.00 and start lapping away. You can only lap so much metal away before you ruin the rings.....the Kokopelli set cost right at $100.00 for the one inch. Could be a little more now but check the website.. I'm in no way shape form or action related to or work for Kokopelli Scope Alignment bars...I don't even know the guy per say..I talked to him one time over the phone when I ordered the one inch and 30mm bars...both separate sets by the way. The Kokopelli Alignment bars are simply top rated and are very precise...it does make a difference....just follow instructions and that's really simple.
Curtis Bibb I took a look at those once, and they look pretty nice. I don't mind the two points, but two cylinders would be easier to interpret. You do get some funky optical stuff going on trying to look at the way the two cones line up. I think your comment is the second one to recommend either the same, or a similar, set of bars.
I didn't think of using a piece of pipe. I guess if the OD was the same as the scope it would work. I don't think I will lap the top of the rings. My worry is that this would open up the rings to the point that they would not hold the scope tightly. Thanks for the comment.
good video...however you need to lap with top section of rings as well to protect scope from slipping. 360 degree of matte finish holds and guards against bumping scope out of alignment. No more work for you really just lap with rings completely assembled and loosely tighten the top rings as you progress.
The obvious answer for anyone with any common sense would be get a new steel rod. Pretty much the same as what do you do once you fired your bullet, guess what, you get another one.
You forgot to lap the tops of your rings. This should be done with the rings tightened loose enough to lap. I made a poor man's 30mm lapping kit for $15 with 3/4" black steel pipe nipples and a 90-degree elbow. You can do the same for a 1" scope using 1/2" parts. Just don't forget to Dremel the burs off the pipes.
So... I'm not convinced that this process is needed. Unless I'm wrong, which I very well could be, if you mount a scope onto your scope rings, and never move it, then none of this will really ever matter. So what if the alignment is off? You'll just adjust the zero so that the reticle is on target. Then it won't matter, right?
if Your scope rings are not properly aligned when you fire your rifle the tension from the mismatched scope rings and the recoil from the rifle could cause your scope to loose its zero.
I think on low recoil guns like .17, .22, .204, 223 you can get away without lapping. I have for years. Sure you might have uneven pressure on the tube but with low recoil its not going to matter much. But on a gun with some recoil like 450 BM, 30-06 etc I think the lapping will help. I have this gun in 450 BM and my ruger rings did loosen after like 5 shots, finally had to locktite the screws. I got a lapping kit and going to check the rings to see if the are in need.
Rush Yahr, you are sort of correct. In real world shooting(hunting, etc) such extra work is just icing on the cake or money for nothing. If you got the coin and time it is a fun extra step in accurizing a rifle, but(despite my love of fine optics and weapons) 99.9999999999999×Pi big games animals were killed with a shot from an unlapped Tasco or open sights. Bugger the lot of them and kill with one shot and what you can afford.
Tip for you guys. Poke two small hole in plastic bag, place over rings to save clean up time. Shouldn't the top ring caps be on to true them as well, just thinking!! After mounting over hundred scopes in my life, I do not agree.
If you properly install Ruger rings this lapping process is completely unnecessary. You lightly tighten the scope ring base screw, then wiggle the ring in a rotating manner. You will immediately notice the base screw is significantly looser. Keep repeating this process until the base cannot be wiggled nor can the ring screw. The scallops are precisely machined into place as well as the scope rings.
You must like that abrasive carborundum in the chamber and breech areas besides down in your open box with cleaning supplies, I do not think that you will be doing any work on my hunting rifles, thank's anyways. Lol lol.
Ok seems like over kill. put the rings on the scope then mount the scope, shoot it at 100yds...adjust scope via turrets...reshoot adjust etc....for deer now.....for deer...inside a pie plate at 100 yds is enough....just my opinion...
Why even bother with scope. Inside a pie plate is very doable without a scope. Open sights should do better than that and will save you buying a scope and rings/bases.
You need to put the top rings on to lap the rings perfectly round
I have used the lapping bar locked in position to the lower rings with the upper ring 1/2 and then tightened into the receiver. This holds the rings in alignment while tightening the rings to the receiver bases. Then they can be fine lapped to near perfection.
It's easy to assume that the mounting of the lower ring to the base is a precision operation. It's not. With the lower rings loose, put the lapping bar in-place. Then mount the top ring, adjusting the mechanical slop as you tighten. Once your rings are tight, tighten the lower ring to the mount. Now you're aligned. THEN loosen the upper ring and do your lapping. You'll lose less material that way.
William Heppe good call
William Heppe there is a surprising amount of miss-alignment possible with the factory mount. Which can be corrected by careful placement, like you said.
+William Heppe That's exactly the way to do it. Using the lapping bar as the initial alignment tool with the rings tightened on it before tightening the base screws. Same applies to any receiver with grooves for ring mounting.
That is not what you want to do with the Ruger rings. You want the rounded locking keys to center themselves when they are tightened. I have seen them shift on recoil to the natural low point of the curve if they are held from being centered. It can be bad enough to loosen the screw when the shift occures. Not a good design.
This sounds like a good explanation but I can t completley picture it, do you know of a vid that shows the proper technique? Thanks.
I installed this optic on a crossman 760 air rifle.I have now shot the riffle around 500 times during target/plinking practice, and the th-cam.com/users/postUgkxc4K63Fd5LglDMObu7-Bgapxp_ef0W8hE scope has done well.With this optic, I have neutralized around 30 pigeons that were invading one of my buildings.For my short range air rifle, I will continue to use this scope, but will be upgrading to a more powerful scope, when I buy a more powerful air rifle, in order to shoot at longer distance.For the money I have spent, this scope has truly been a great buy.
I did my scope following this instruction. I found something that you did not comment on. I had a tendency to put too much weight on the rear ring as my palm put more weight. I corrected this but had to sand off more than I should have because of this. For others doing this for the first time try to keep your pressure equal front to back. I am now going to do my other rifles. All 6. I did my .243 with a bushnell doa scope and leupold rings as it is my cheapest rig. It was out a fair bit. I used it as a test rifle and was impressed with the results. I do recommend practice with your cheapest rifle first. I now consider myself a pro LOL
wrong advise. Both ring halves need to be involved in the lapping. top and bottom ring halves. its amazing that skills and intuition has fallen off that mechanical 'common Knowedge' Is not so common. Lap Both sides of the rings!!! lap.. polish.. tighten.. lap/polish/tighten.. etc.. until BOTH ring halves are true. Then.. No worries.. and you dont have to use your eye...
creighton wade
Thank you for your comment. I guess along with mechanical common knowledge, polite disagreement, research, and reading instructions are also uncommon.
"Most sources say that it is not necessary to lap the tops of the rings as they are springy enough to compensate for slight misalignment." from Scpe Mounting Made Easy by Bryce M Towsley, Field Editor, published in the American Rifleman, August 2006.
"Only the bottom half of the rings require lapping. The flexibility of the top half of the rings will compensate for any irregularities there." published in the instructions for "Lapping Telescope Rings", Sinclair International, Inc.
That being said, other lapping directions do call for both halves of the rings to be lapped. So there is some debate on the issue.
bgallaher77 Hey, I haven't done this type of work myself, but when you put the alignment bars ontop of the lower ring halves, they have a bit of play, and the alignment they indicate differs. You'd probably want to attach the top ring halves in order to see an honest indication of alignment.
Yes, the Wheeler engineering instructions do show that the top of the rings are lapped with the bottom. However, the old timer who showed me how to do it only did the bottoms, which matched the instruction for the Sinclair International tool. Can't go wrong with the benchrest guys. My worry with the top rings on that lapping could open them up to >1inch, and then the scope wouldn't stick at all.
To suggest the scope rings would need to be lapped in would mean that the rifle was poorly made and the rings weren't already aligned and that the rings themselves were also poorly made and would not fit the scope tube. This lapping kit is just a gimmick to spend money on and after all your hard work, it won't change a thing. I've been shooting for 60 years and shooting varmints and big game out to 500 yards and never lapped a scope ring. Save your money and time and just set your scope up properly. Spend that extra money on ammo or a better scope and go shooting. You new shooters should not buy into all this needless gear and simply shoot and always wear ear and eye protection.
I never lapped my rings I have a Winchester model 70 in 308 that will shoot 3 shots in a group a little larger than a quarter at 150 yards I also never did the so called breaking in the barrel just run a patch with some hoppes 9 thru it about ever 15 to 20 shots wipe it down with a little gun oil after hunting
tape up your action next time, you dont want 220 grit getting worked in the headspace, trust me its a pain in the ass, great demo,
Kevin Robbin that sounds like a bad day
when I do it i tape up the gun with bubble wrap tape only contacts bubble wrap not wood stock,after im done, I take the compressor to the bubble wrap then take it off, then blow out the action just to be sure,
hope this was some help to you sir, and thanx again,
Nice video can you advise where you get the lapping bar and points?
You dont want to push forward on ruger rings! They are a scallop cutout and need to be centred in the scallop, regardless of the recoil lug on the rings. All you are doing by lapping rings is removing coating or bluing creating a nice place for rust to form. I dont know how we managed to mount scopes years ago without all that expensive equipment and still shoot straight 😉
34 years old and the older I get and more I shoot, the more I realize the importance of things like this. In east Texas we average 100-200 yard shots but this can make a huge difference at 400-500 yard shots in places like south Texas. Thx for uploading !
Great video but is it safe to not put a cloth or something over the action? I think I would use tape to cover it just to make me feel better.
Yes, you don't want any of the abrasive getting into the works of the gun. So far every time I have done this it isn't that messy. Perhaps I have just been lucky. I keep lots of paper towels around...
I recycle my lapping paste and allow it to fall Into the action. The bullets smooth out the bore when fired .
Based on this video, I reluctantly took off all my scopes, and checked the alignment with my freshly purchased, Wheeler Alignment/lap combo kit.
WOW! All but one was really off. I lapped the rings, cleaned them up and re-set my scopes, based on leveling of the action, NOT the rings, then matched the vertical line of the reticle w/ a plumb-line hanging 30 feet away.
Now my scope-tubes aren't stressed, & are perfectly level & plumb to the action & have roughly 85% contact with the ring-surface.
And have your groups changed?
I have the basic MTM Caseguard vise. They might call it a cradle. It is pretty good, and I use clamps to hold it in place. MTM make some bigger cradles, but I have found the basic cradle to work for what I do. Sinclair International also makes some aluminum cradles.
You put a cloth over your barrel, action, and tang area so the lapping compoud does not get on or in the rifle. The ruger rings are the weak point of the rifle. It seems like a good design until you actually mount the rings and see they are not machined well and the tab that goes into the top of the reciever does not touch on the forward portion after the screw is torqued. The best thing you can do is wiggle the rings as the screw is tightened so the rounded locking keys center themselves and don't try and hold them in any particular position, then lap them. In some cases they can be so bad or the reciever so bad that the scope does not have enough adustment to be able to be zeroed. The other thing as can be seen on the video is check to make sure there is at least a slight gap between the upper and lower portion of the rings. If they are touching on both sides you have know way of knowing how much clamping force is on the scope. Your rear ring needs a visit to a sand belt sorry to say.
How much of a difference does it really make? I've never had any form of problem with mine and the zero has held remarkably for quite some time
In some cases, you can recover a lot of windage and elevation clicks once the lapping is done. It will change all your settings so re-zero is necessary.
Sure it does. Checking the alignment of the points from the x y & z planes with the top rings installed, assures it.
Just because you found a different, more expensive way, does not negate all other methods.
I think you need to watch Optics Planet "How to Mount your Scope
My brother got me my first rifle scope for my birthday I tried to zero the scope but the vertical is spun all the way up but the bore Lazer is still 2 points under zero. I'm not sure but I think the scope is defective, any suggestions would be appreciated.
I do not have any experience w bore sighters. I would take it to the range and see what happens.
I have a video “How to Sight in a Rifle Easy” that you might like
@@bgallaher77 a rifle bore sighting Lazer is a Lazer in the shape & caliber of the firearm it points where the bullet should hit. I tried to sight in the scope using it instead of wasting rounds down range. I thought of trying to lap the scope rings in an angle instead of putting shims in the rear scope ring. But I'm gessing here.
I would just shoot it and see what happens. Cheap to do. I would not try and modify the gun. Replacing the scope is cheaper than fixing the rifle. What brand is the scope? Laser shines line of sight. Bullets have a trajectory influenced by gravity and wind resistance. the laser may not be aimed directly down the bore, so the bore sighter might give you a false indication that something is wrong.
@@bgallaher77 CenterPoint Optics LR620AORG2 Red/Green 6-20x50mm Illuminated, Adjustable Objective Riflescope With TAG Reticle And Picatinny Rings
by CenterPoint Optics
3.9 out of 5 stars
Price: $92.00 & FREE Shipping,
Looked it up & found it on Amazon
The allignment indicator bars are really only useful when using rings like the old redfield and leupold style where the front ring rotates into position. It will show when they are aligned initially when looking down on them. After that they are not needed as the lapping process will align them. For Ruger rings you can just leave them in the case.
Strutingeagle do you mean dove tail
I wish I had a honing kit, but for the money I can't justify it. The 3/4" OD is about 1.05 not 1.18 (30 mm), but I'll use some 220 grit sandpaper to make up the difference. Everyone I talk to tells me to hone both sides and remove 40-60% of material, but check for fit throughout. Midway has a good video on this and I agree with their logic.
By aligning your scope rings, you prevent kinking the scope. You can pinch a scope and severely damage it, if the rings are grossly "out of whack."
Lapping scope rings increases the contact area between the tube and the rings, which prevents slipping and also, to some extent, pinching.
Neither technique will turn a beater into a bench rest rifle, but they can increase the rigidity and dependability of a scope mounting system.
Ruger makes different height scope rings for m77 depending on your objective I believe there #3-#6
What sort of performance difference/benefit does one get from this extensive process and high-end hardware? I've gotten 1 MOA with a $100 pellet rifle, using a $80 scope and $10 rings that I just tightened on and ran with.
I haven't invested enough in guns to try out a $800 rifle with a $600 scope and $20+ rings and all of the equipment that this process involves. So I'm honestly asking, what different results would I see if I did?
It has more to do with not damaging the scope and preventing movement of the scope during firearm. A centerfire rifle is s lot harder on the scope mount and rings than a pellet rifle
Just watched the Midway video. I can see how doing the top and bottom would work. As long as the scope rings can still clamp down hard you are good to go.
Good shooting.
I'll have to try some of those. Maybe make a comparison video.
is it still necessary to lap and align high quality rings? isnt that why some one would pay top dollar for precision rings so we wouldn't have to do this, or is the an entirely different method of operation for accuracy above simply leveling and mounting and bore sighting??
No, it is not necessary to lap high quality rings, if they're mounted on a high quality rail. If they're mounted directly to the receiver, it depends on how high quality the receiver milling is.
Aluminium rings are soft and should be fine without it. Talley ring company advise you not to lap.
I have a 22 I want a scope on with those rails. How do I put a scope on with that rail?
Just a suggestion for setting the cross hair just before tightening down the rings. I use a plumb bob set up on the far side of the room where I am mounting the scope. Make sure the rifle action is level. On the Ruger with it's flat bottom a level on the bottom part of receiver can be used with the stock removed. Making sure the action is level, move the scope until the vertical cross hair lines up with the plumb bob line. Fairly simple, and real inexpensive. You can use other areas on the rifle to level it also.
gadgethunter That is a pretty cool way to level a scope. I have seen the gizmos that some outfits sell and it doesn't seem like that would work. A plumb bob would definitely fit the bill.
Most those small levels are not true or the receiver is not true. You can eyeball it closer using a plumb line. Better yet is to use a mirror and pule the vertical cross hair so it intersects with the barrel then tighten it. Next step is to then put the cross hairs on a plumb line then mount a scope level so it reads level when the cross hair is aligned with the plumb line. This removes all cant errors but you do need to have a level on the scope so you know when the gun is level during shooting. Turret caps, guns receivers + poor quality levels make that method less reliable than just eyeballing the cross hairs to get it close.
How long does it take to lap?
Love the ruger 77 series rifles but have found the rings though great design the quality is not great, most of my 77 rifles had several rings switched out to get them aligned , I am not a fan of lapping because you remove clamping surface which is a bigger problem in my experience
Because simply doing this could simply cut your groups in half meaning a smaller chance of gut shooting your game if you pull it off on a cold morning. You see the rods out of alignment, that means when you hand tighten your screws down snug and over torque your rings, you stress the tube which makes it flex, and puts bad tension on your moving internals which negatively affects how freely your reticule moves as your adjusting your zero. If you are tapping your turrets to correct your wrong.
helpful tip is to colour the inside of Stainless rings with a black permanent marker, to see the material removed.
Also number the upper and lower rings in matched sets and also keep front and back in proper order.
Interesting product. I think the concept makes sense. Thank you for mentioning it.
Good video man, I need to get the lapping and alignment tools, I wanna do it right this time, I have one of these rifles in .223 on the way for coyote hunting with a Leupold VX-3, I think it will be a good setup.
You absolutely do not have to lap those rings. The machine work on modern components is great now. I put my scope on by eye with a little level and I'm shooting sub moa groups.
Yes put on the top rings while lapping.
Quelle sont les numéros dès collier ?
Well...there are many a couch coach around these days. But I will offer you my advice to you...ditch the Wheeler Engineering Scope Alignment bars and order in a set of "Kokopelli Scope Alignment bars...twice the price but honestly...the Wheeler set does not give you true alignment....two points coming together cannot give you true alignment.
O.K....yes...I did buy the Wheeler set first. But things just were not lining up alignment wise. I used the internet as it should be used and found my answer hence I bought the Kokopelli set...really nice too. I found my issue on a particular Savage action that was warped from the factory (And Savage denied this after sending the action to Savage....buyer beware!!)....I need to do a video on that action to warn other buyers of Savage rifles (Well any rifle for that matter and is simple by having a precision one piece scope mount base in hand when looking at rifles) and I have well over two dozen Savage rifles and all but the warped action are straight. The Wheeler Alignment Bars did not reveal this warped action by the way...two points came together alright...but straight isn't straight when it ain't straight!! When you are laying out hundreds of dollars for a quality scope and two to three hundred dollars for base and rings...you don't want to ruin precise scope rings (Or a scope that cost into the hundreds +++++ !) that cost $200.00 by using a tool that cost $50.00 and start lapping away. You can only lap so much metal away before you ruin the rings.....the Kokopelli set cost right at $100.00 for the one inch. Could be a little more now but check the website..
I'm in no way shape form or action related to or work for Kokopelli Scope Alignment bars...I don't even know the guy per say..I talked to him one time over the phone when I ordered the one inch and 30mm bars...both separate sets by the way.
The Kokopelli Alignment bars are simply top rated and are very precise...it does make a difference....just follow instructions and that's really simple.
Curtis Bibb I took a look at those once, and they look pretty nice. I don't mind the two points, but two cylinders would be easier to interpret. You do get some funky optical stuff going on trying to look at the way the two cones line up. I think your comment is the second one to recommend either the same, or a similar, set of bars.
Use "delicate surface" painters tape to cover the rifle & keep it clean during lapping!!!
Cover with rags, gently remove when finished
Why would you need to lapself centering rings. I could understand lapping rings such as leupold or similar, but not these.
I didn't think of using a piece of pipe. I guess if the OD was the same as the scope it would work.
I don't think I will lap the top of the rings. My worry is that this would open up the rings to the point that they would not hold the scope tightly.
Thanks for the comment.
good video...however you need to lap with top section of rings as well to protect scope from slipping. 360 degree of matte finish holds and guards against bumping scope out of alignment. No more work for you really just lap with rings completely assembled and loosely tighten the top rings as you progress.
Thanks for sharing.
Is it just me but wouldn’t a two point leveling system be helpful?
so once your steel rod is worn what then?
The obvious answer for anyone with any common sense would be get a new steel rod. Pretty much the same as what do you do once you fired your bullet, guess what, you get another one.
I am sure the Rockwell number on that steel will outlast many rings. Majority of rings are aluminum so one lapping kit is good for a gazillion jobs.
Thats a Mauser action there, you can throw the kitchen garbage in there and it will be fine!! Nice video sir.
Yes. If the abrasive got into the receiver, that would be a "bad day".
You forgot to lap the tops of your rings. This should be done with the rings tightened loose enough to lap. I made a poor man's 30mm lapping kit for $15 with 3/4" black steel pipe nipples and a 90-degree elbow. You can do the same for a 1" scope using 1/2" parts. Just don't forget to Dremel the burs off the pipes.
So... I'm not convinced that this process is needed. Unless I'm wrong, which I very well could be, if you mount a scope onto your scope rings, and never move it, then none of this will really ever matter. So what if the alignment is off? You'll just adjust the zero so that the reticle is on target. Then it won't matter, right?
+Rush Yahr Wrong. The point of getting perfect alignment (or close as possible to it) is that you're preventing the scope tube from being bent.
I think practically you're correct. This is for OCD precision guys
if Your scope rings are not properly aligned when you fire your rifle the tension from the mismatched scope rings and the recoil from the rifle could cause your scope to loose its zero.
I think on low recoil guns like .17, .22, .204, 223 you can get away without lapping. I have for years. Sure you might have uneven pressure on the tube but with low recoil its not going to matter much. But on a gun with some recoil like 450 BM, 30-06 etc I think the lapping will help. I have this gun in 450 BM and my ruger rings did loosen after like 5 shots, finally had to locktite the screws. I got a lapping kit and going to check the rings to see if the are in need.
Rush Yahr, you are sort of correct. In real world shooting(hunting, etc) such extra work is just icing on the cake or money for nothing. If you got the coin and time it is a fun extra step in accurizing a rifle, but(despite my love of fine optics and weapons) 99.9999999999999×Pi big games animals were killed with a shot from an unlapped Tasco or open sights. Bugger the lot of them and kill with one shot and what you can afford.
Agreed, you did way more work then you had to.
Wow, I'm not sure what I'm Polishing????????
Tip for you guys. Poke two small hole in plastic bag, place over rings to save clean up time.
Shouldn't the top ring caps be on to true them as well, just thinking!!
After mounting over hundred scopes in my life, I do not agree.
probably should tape off the bolt opening so you don't get that lapping compound into the action.
If you properly install Ruger rings this lapping process is completely unnecessary.
You lightly tighten the scope ring base screw, then wiggle the ring in a rotating manner. You will immediately notice the base screw is significantly looser. Keep repeating this process until the base cannot be wiggled nor can the ring screw.
The scallops are precisely machined into place as well as the scope rings.
beautiful rifle!
Thats why you "lightly tighten" the top rings
Thanks!
fantastic video, thank you!
You must like that abrasive carborundum in the chamber and breech areas besides down in your open box with cleaning supplies, I do not think that you will be doing any work on my hunting rifles, thank's anyways. Lol lol.
Thats not how Larry Potterfield does it...
Ok seems like over kill. put the rings on the scope then mount the scope, shoot it at 100yds...adjust scope via turrets...reshoot adjust etc....for deer now.....for deer...inside a pie plate at 100 yds is enough....just my opinion...
Why even bother with scope. Inside a pie plate is very doable without a scope. Open sights should do better than that and will save you buying a scope and rings/bases.
Your rings were made with a laser guided CNC....
Receiver and rings are investment cast and heat treated.
Id put paper towel over the receiver. Keep grit and debri out of it.
Obvious right away this guy doesn't know the proper way to do this. Only the bottom half of the lapping bar shows any wear.
This guy is a rookie!! Nice rifle though!!!
Lefty, huh? ;-)
Lol 😆 a video on how not to do this.
All the fine metal dust on top of the gun, inside the gun?🫣 Get some blue painters tape put under the mess you make works great