Your content is pure gold for all types and levels of players. Thanks for the scientific details, Dr. Dave. Shoot em straight and stay safe! Greetings all the way from Denmark. /Chris.
Thank you for your detailed tests and teaching. Finally, someone isn't just talking nonsense about how to use spin. The internet is filled with a lot of misleading tutorials, always saying to move the bridge a bit or to turn in a certain direction, and then hit it out, completely ignoring the hitting force, timing, player experience, cue tip.... and the most basic question...why use spin in the first place. The main purpose of using spin is the positioning of the cue ball after the shot, not to increase the potting rate. Yet, a bunch of people with incorrect posture and poor cue action come out to teach others, saying that this way it's easier to pot the ball, and then a lot of people believe them, resulting in them playing even worse than before.
Best way to learn to aim , plus sink balls, is to shoot 100,000 balls. Dr. Dave dispenses good medicine, and Pool IQ. I have learned so much from Dr.Dave.👍
18 months after first watching SAWS video, I run across this and now it makes sense. WHEN we must aim with sidespin, know this system. As a noob, I was thinking this was an additional system for regular aiming, using sidespin. Since I didn't "get it", I didn't use it.
Lol never needed to skip a video within the few 15 seconds according to the creator. Thanks for that, and most importantly, you are very helpfull for the pool community!
@@D.H.1987 If you do in fact have “perfect intuition,” then I’m jealous. Even the top pros don’t make every shot with sidespin, especially the ones with fast speed and lots of spin.
I have been testing some of your tips using Virtual Pool 4 and have to say, the tips are spot on and so is the simulator. It's not like real pool, but I find that it does an excellent job replicating the results of English and angles. After all it is just math. Can' t wait to try some of this on a real table. Problem is the nearest pool hall to me is like 10 miles...easy. I might have to buy my own table and turn my dining room into a pool room. I mean I live alone and don't use the 13x18 space for anything else so why not. Can probably get a seven foot table in there. Anyway, great tips/instructions. Some of the best on You Tube !!
I'm a decent shot but my side spin control was abysmal, wanted to improve that part of my game so spent the whole summer practicing every shot with side spin. The amount of information you've collected and shared regarding side spin is overwhelming. Thank you for all you've done and shared!! I spent a huge amount of time fiddling with BHE and FHE. Almost committed to purchasing SAWS, however I didn't because something happened intuitively. It finally clicked what was happening to the cue ball with regards to squirt and swerve. You share the physics immediately in your videos, that hitting with side results in the cueball squirting away and swerving back. I was hearing it, seeing it, but it wasn't sinking in until I actually tried things on the table, especially when hitting with inside. I've been intimidated and avoided inside spin because I rarely had good results, like 5-10% of the time pocketing the ball, let alone having the cue ball spin off a rail to an acceptable spot. After I forced myself to practice the shots, and I finally figured out what direction to adjust for, my success rate skyrocketed and fell like its more like 80+ percent. It feels absolutely amazing to be on the hill, and see that holding for the 8 ball is going to be tough, however inside spin will easily get me there if I stay smooth and execute. It looks so dang cool and makes me feel like a real pool player when I nail it! My confidence has soared and I have zero hesitation using spin when needed. Thank you again Dr. Dave!
Love the video, especially the couple shots where you showed the adjustment in aim. I'd love to see another where you focus on just that, showing the shooters view for a sidespin shot without adjustment, and then dictate BHE, and FHE adjustment as you do them and how much of each. I'm not asking for you to give away the secret of Saws or how you got to the amount of BHE/FHE, just show more detail about each shot before and after aim adjustment. And saying that, I understand it's not that easy to do if you go down on the shot with the adjustment already baked in.
@@aarondavenport9488 This video included many examples (not just a couple). And more can be found, with lots of detailed info, here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/ Enjoy!
Just a reminder that even with SAWS, you still need to develop a good fundamental of shooting straight + rather precise speed controls. On top of that, you will still need good estimations of distance and to account for table conditions and even ball conditions when taking throws into the picture. The point is, you will still need a lot of practice when using SAWS. And shooting with side spin is still hard😅
@@shuchengchao Good points. Doing anything well requires practice. However, judging the distance between the CB and OB is very simple. Also, SAWS has an adjustment built in for table conditions. Regardless, practice and consistency are important.
The method that has worked for me the best - by far - is to pivot when going down on the shot. This is what Jeremy Jones teaches. When you get used to it, and it doesn't take long, it becomes very natural and automatic. You almost don't have to think about it. In the end run what JJ teaches could be a form of BHE and FHE - I am not sure. I also know a lot of Filipino players that pivot for english when going down on the shot and you can also see, if you watch closely, many pros do the same thing. It just takes some time to get used to. It took me literally a couple of hours and I was fairly comfortable with it - then I have just fine tuned it.
@@jamesdavis8731 It sounds simple, but the real “magic” is pivoting the right amount based on shot speed, shot distance, and the type and amount of spin. It can take lots of trial and error to develop the “fine tuning” for this over a wide range of shots, but it is a common approach used by many top players like JJ.
it would be a good video for you to test deflection between the revo, Jflowers SMO, and whyte carbon. From my experience the whyte carbon leads the pack in terms of lowest deflection.
@@Danks-vz5xz I carefully test the Predator Revo, Cuetec Cynergy, Carbon Whyte, and other shafts in the videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/ Check them out. The Revo had the least CB deflection. But lower deflection isn’t necessarily better per the video and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/
start with slow speed, medium distance shots with a trace of side. You can hammer some hangers with extreme spin for fun, but start with a trace of side.
Hi Dave, can you give your two cents on cues joint question - radial vs qr? Is that a myth or fact that radial provides better feel, more action on cue ball since it gives one piece feel of cue, better connection etc...
@@Brandzaman39 I don’t think it really matters, unless you think it does. The mind is a powerful thing. Even if the sound or “feel” were different, the difference is unimportant, IMO. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/
Is moving the whole body for bhe equivalent to just moving the elbow left or right?Only if they are equivalent can bhe automatically correct unintentional side spin errors (provided the cue is held from natural pivot point)which are mostly due to elbow or wrist movement.
@@navjot4086604 Yes, and yes, but only for very short shots at very fast speed. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/
@@lan2443 I think it is best for the whole body to move with BHE, so the arm-body relationship does not change. Also, most people don’t have enough body clearance to move the back hand toward the body. Or are you referring to moving the back hand during the stroke? If so, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/swoop-swipe/
Hi Dave! Is miscue limit depends on cue speed? Means same poin on ball can have enough grip on slow cue speed and be miscue at high cue speed because not enough grip? Thanks in advance!)
@@ОлегКамуз-в5ы Initial squirt does not depend on shot speed, but swerve varies a lot with speed, so net CB deflection varies a lot with shot speed and distance. See the demonstrations at the beginning of the video. See also: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/speed-effects/
Dave in terms of what the players are looking at. Do you think pros look at the center ball shot-line when playing with side (when they are looking at the object ball) and are simply aware of how far their cue is away from this line. Or do you think they look down a different shot line, one which takes the side into account? My current method has been to stay looking at the center-ball shot line, and I'm simply aware of the angle my cue forms with this line. I know some snooker coaches say they use 'parallel side' which implies they are looking down a side-adjusted shot line, but I'm not sure I always trust in a good players ability to reverse engineer and explain their intuition. For example Barry Stark says that when he's using helping side (gearing English) that he's aiming at the center ball shot line, but other coaches like Barton Snooker think that all the players are actually adjusting their aim point slightly even when using gearing english and they aren't even always aware that they're doing it. Though in my limited experience a player can never be truly accurate over long distance, unless he has a very specific point that he's aiming his cue at.
@@Dhirallin When using sidespin, I think most top players look at where they want the CB to go, realizing that the cue and stroke are pointing offline to accomplish this. I personally prefer looking along the direction the cue is pointing (to help stroke straight in that direction), realizing that this will send the CB in the direction I was aiming before the SAWS pivots.
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks, that makes sense, since I've also noticed, that if my cue is not pointing in exactly the same direction as my eyes, it has a tendancy to curve on the stroke, since my arm is subconsciously trying to steer the cue back onto the line I'm looking down. I confirmed that using the QMD Stroke Analyzer. Sometimes it still hits the correct spot on the white, but it's more random.
Dave a very important realisation for me with my game, is I noticed if the side and aiming adjustment is very small (i.e. gearing english levels) then when I'm looking at the object ball, it can actually appear as if my cue is pointing exactly at the center-ball aim point. But when I look down at the cue ball, I see that it's not. This seems to be like an optical illusion, caused by the end of the tip of the cue not being perpendicular to the shot line. I.e. because you're intersecting an angled line (the end of the tip) rather than a perfect horizontal line if that makes sense? It's made me realise that when coaches and pros talk about checking that they are 'in the center of the cue ball' that this check is quite a bit more sophisticated than they make out. I understand now why they spend so much time staring at the cue ball. In some ways I feel like you can even exploit the optical illusion. For example, if you aim your cue at a specific point while looking at the object ball, and then flick your eyes down to the cue ball / cue tip. You can instantly see whether your cue is pointing 'straight' relative to that previous perspective. In that way you can indirectly tell that your cue is not in the center of the white even without looking at the white. I'm convinced that this is what players are _actually_ doing when they flick their eyes between cue ball and object ball, but they're terrible at explaining it.
Hola desde España, una pregunta.... Q marca es el taco con el q ha realizado el vídeo? Muchas gracias por el contenido, es vital para todos jugadores. Gracias.
Been experimenting with this for a few days now since you posted this latest video. Perhaps I missed this in the video, but it’s not clear exactly what “70%”represents. For backhand English, e.g.,, does 70% essentially mean 70% of the distance from center of the cue ball to the maximum side spin aim point? That’s what has been working for me so far.
The percentages apply to where the tip is ending up (based on the amount of spin the shot calls for). If the shot calls for maximum spin, then you go 70% of the way to maximum using BHE, and the remaining 30% with FHE. If the shot only calls for half of maximum spin, you go 70% of the way to half with BHE, and the remaining 30% to half with FHE.
@@DrDaveBilliards ok! I’m glad I asked the question. I’ve been applying this as if the shot called for maximum sidespin only. After several hours of this, I thought “well this is a pretty limited system”. But now it’s clear how to apply it to any shot!
I've basically been using saws for many years already, but never made a diagram for it. I had some basic adjustments remembered and would work from there. I'm not an intuition/feel player, I need something/strict rules that I can always fall back on, because intuition and feel are too reliant on the state of mind. I've went through the 'trouble' (it really isn't... you can do it in 20 minutes or so) of making a diagram and it turns out my old 314 has a very linear deflection behaviour. 90% FHE/10% BHE on slow close shots, 50-50 on medium/medium, and 10-90 on hard long shots. This is with an almost 12 inch bridge length. I did notice however on shots from the rail, where I cannot get that 12 inch and have to jack up slightly, I need to adjust 10% the other way with BHE. One question: I had a tournament yesterday (finished 2nd, happy enough with that after 10 year hiatus and resumed play since 3,5 months, one opponent asked me if I was able to miss lol) but the consitions were pretty crappy (warped rails, damp cloths, worn balls) and my regular adjustments didn't seem to work that well on anything but the short shots, and I struggled with that the entire day. Didn't have the time to experiment with what extra adjustment I needed. What could've been the culprit? Does cloth condition affect the deflection (due to the cueball resisting initial movement more) ? Also, I had the feeling the cueballs were a bit too light (couldn't get a powerfull break either) and if I'm not mistaken that would make the ball deflect more? I also tested a Longoni Luna Nera for a short period some time ago too, because I was curious about the carbon hype that I totally missed because of the hiatus... gotta say I wasn't impressed... needed almost full BHE on slow short shots in stead of the almost full FHE I'm used to.... that doesn't scream LD to me. The hit felt good enough though, not that tinny hollow sound I hear other carbon shafts make.
Cloth conditions definitely affect CB deflection. That's why I have the cloth conditions adjustments built into SAWS. See the pertinent "Corrections" on the 2nd page here: billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/SAWS_calibration.pdf If the conditions are radically different from your calibration pool table, a larger correction might be required.
@@DrDaveBilliards Ah cool. I knew about the top/bottom corrections, but completely missed the cloth corrections. Will keep it in mind the next time when I'm on a bad table, and use it in my warmup.
One reason why I am apprehensive to even think about BHE/FHE was the reasoning Darren Appleton gave in one of his videos which advocated for the "intuitive approach" as the preferred approach. His reasoning was that people who are not straight shooters with bad/decent fundamentals cannot consistently shoot straight along the new shot line (after FHE/BHE) while still visulaizing about the correct path. Either you are a straight shooter or you should strive to be one.. and perhaps learning FHE/BHE pushes a player away from this "ideal state". Is it still worth learning the SAWS framework (philosophically) if I don't want my already poor straight shooting to get affected? Hope the question makes sense doc. In game situations do you rely on SAWS or the Intuitive approach? And is there a systematic way to build this intuition withiut ever "pivoting anything"?
@@parashararamesh4252 I don’t think there is any issue with stroking straight with SAWS, assuming you do the pivots correctly and focus on the final cue direction during the final stroke. For more details about this and related common questions about SAWS, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/ Concerning how to build sidespin aiming intuition quickly, I recommend the SAWS calibration procedure. Even if you never use SAWS, the calibration procedure will teach you a lot about how to aim when using sidespin.
Cám ơn những video của tiến sĩ Dave đã giúp tôi thấy trò chơi billiard này kỳ diệu như thế nào, mặc dù tôi chỉ xem qua nó trong các giải đấu chiếu trên tivi, và sẵn tiện, xin hỏi tiến sĩ Dave có biết về trò chơi 8 ball pool không? Tôi thấy trên đó có những người có thể thực hiện những đường bi rất ảo, đặc biệt là thứ gọi là “kiss shot”. Tôi biết rằng những đường bi này hầu hết đến từ những người chơi gian lận có dùng công cụ hỗ trợ trong trò chơi này, nhưng tôi tự hỏi liệu tiến sĩ Dave có thể giải thích về việc đã gặp những pha đánh gọi là “kiss shot” đó trên bàn billiard thật hay chưa? Xin cám ơn tiến sĩ 🙏!
Sorry, but I only play "real pool." I do not play with the simulator games. Concerning "kiss shots," lots of examples can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/carom/
I like the concepts in this lesson, but it still is a bit confusing. I think it would have been more effective if you had hit a ball straight in to show how the side English impacts the ball it contacts versus hitting in to a pocket. That is where the effects of applying side spin are easily demonstrated...IMO anyway.
This video covers many important sidespin principles, so it is difficult to absorb everything with one viewing. Also, the best way to master this stuff is to actually try every shot in the video at the table. BTW, if you want to see the effects of hitting balls straight in, see my Sidespin Myth Busting videos: th-cam.com/video/QA7FyS6tWdY/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/9TokaN0ghSA/w-d-xo.html Enjoy!
Don't these BHE/FHE shifts effect your stance negatively? One has to be a little off balance, right? Is it the reason why pros prefer intuitive approach?
@@babdz FYI, these and more common questions about SAWS are answered here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/ The small motions required for the pivots, if done properly, do not bother me at all.
I do it by intuition. But I have played for 26 years, so... question for you, Dr.Dave. Is it worthwhile learning to play left-handed? Also, do you have any videos/resources about how humidity affects balls? Also is it worth it to learn to play left-handed? (I am right handed)
@@IndianHeathen1982 I think the time is better spent learning to master the mechanical bridge. For temperature and humidity effects, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/humidity-effects/
Watch Ronnie O'Sullivan play snooker ambidextrously, and see if it's worthwhile for him. (That 2nd question is all Dr. Dave's, and watch out for trick answers! 😅)
@@kurtkensson2059 If somebody is ambidextrous, it is definitely helpful being able to play with both hands. For most mere mortals, mechanical bridge mastery is a more-efficient solution.
@@DrDaveBilliards ooh, you misunderstood my point. I am pretty proficient with the bridge. My question was more something along the lines of "Does cross training with the non-dominant hand help with the dominant hand?" in terms of technique improvement. I did train with my non-dominant hand today and I became hyperaware of technical stuff. So, yeah, I guess I answered my own question in a sense. It helps you be aware of what exactly you do. Maybe more of a placebo. Scientific papers don't seem to have a consesus though... Thank you for the humidity resources.
@@IndianHeathen1982 Sorry I misunderstood your point. Good job answering your own question. Although, I think one can focus on their fundamentals without attempting to train with the non-dominant hand. Lots of help can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/fundamentals/
Anymore if I see POV in the title of anything not using a head mounted cam I will click "do not recommend", so thanks for that, lol. My game is still below T-shirt level, but this stuff is so fascinating to know.
@@DrDaveBilliards 9 years ago I did some shotgunning (clay targets) wearing a gopro, comfort was not an issue for me but the real pain was aligning it by guesswork without a phone app that enables you to monitor it. The weather and sky conditions were ideal and I got lucky with some useable footage. I could even freeze frame the shot cloud approaching the target.
Any pivots after you're down for the shot are messing with your stroke delivery, so intuitive is the way... Or, at least do your whatever system calculations while still standing.
@@Krushard Based on my personal experience and the experience of students, this is not the case. For more info, see the answers to the pertinent questions here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
The aiming method taught by Jeremy Jones seems to be the most straightforward. With FHE, he aligns the bridge hand before placing it on the table: th-cam.com/video/Qs2i9zImoU4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EtYx34rqLRvt2HyO
@Jay21121 The method JJ describes is the same as the 2nd version of the “Intuitive Method” in my video. It requires judgement and feel to know how to pivot based on shot speed and distance and on the amount and type of spin being used. I agree that it sounds simple, but it is not as simple as it sounds if you want to be effective over a wide range of shot types. As I prove later in my video, pure FHE alone is not effective over a wide range of shots. JJ aims effectively because he intuitively knows how to adjust his aim properly (with a variable pivot) based on countless hours of smart practice and successful experience.
This is why I wont even bother with trying to learn side spin, much to difficult for those of use that will always just be regular players. I'll stick with screw and forward spin shots, much easier, and have a wide range of applications.
The one thing that was new was the GoPro POV views of the sidespin shot examples, and of the BHE and FHE pivot stuff. Many people have asked for this in the past.
None of these techniques is "new" (except SAWS, which was created in 2019), but I think I presented them in "new" ways in a comprehensive video that compares all of them in one place. That might be of value to some people.
The method that works best for me is avoid english whenever possible. None and i mean none of these systems work well for me. Idk if its complete lack of talent old age or what but i just struggle with it.
@@Otingocni That’s a good approach unless you want your game to advance more. Sidespin use is critical for high-level play. Although, it is possible to play well at an intermediate level without sidespin.
@@DrDaveBilliards not so much a matter of want for me but a matter of what works and what doesnt. Maybe in twenty more years ill get it if i live that long but im old already.
*Contents:*
0:00 - Intro
0:34 - Sidespin Effects
---- 3:23 - outside draw vs. inside follow
5:16 - Honest Appraisal
6:00 - 1 - Simplest Method
6:46 - 2 - Intuitive Method
8:19 - 3 - Basic BHE/FHE
11:00 - 4 - System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS)
---- 12:43 - sidespin shot examples
15:31 - Wrap Up
*Supporting Resources:*
- sidespin online tutorial: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/sidespin/
- sidespin resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/
- aiming with sidespin resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/
- System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
- SAWS calibration document: billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/SAWS_calibration.pdf
- sidespin example shots: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/examples/
- sidespin example shot diagrams: billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/BU_Sidespin_Examples.pdf
- sidespin squirt, swerve, and throw effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/effects/
*Subscribe to Dr. Dave's TH-cam Channel:*
th-cam.com/users/DrDaveBilliards
Your content is pure gold for all types and levels of players. Thanks for the scientific details, Dr. Dave.
Shoot em straight and stay safe! Greetings all the way from Denmark. /Chris.
Thank you, and you're welcome. I aim to swerve, all the way from USA. :)
Thank you for your detailed tests and teaching. Finally, someone isn't just talking nonsense about how to use spin. The internet is filled with a lot of misleading tutorials, always saying to move the bridge a bit or to turn in a certain direction, and then hit it out, completely ignoring the hitting force, timing, player experience, cue tip.... and the most basic question...why use spin in the first place. The main purpose of using spin is the positioning of the cue ball after the shot, not to increase the potting rate. Yet, a bunch of people with incorrect posture and poor cue action come out to teach others, saying that this way it's easier to pot the ball, and then a lot of people believe them, resulting in them playing even worse than before.
You're welcome. Amen to that. Well stated.
Very true...Dr. Dave is one of the best I have found.
@@Alan_Edwards Thanks.
Best way to learn to aim , plus sink balls, is to shoot 100,000 balls.
Dr. Dave dispenses good medicine, and Pool IQ.
I have learned so much from Dr.Dave.👍
No doubt about that, assuming you actually learn from your mistakes. Unfortunately, not everybody has that level of commitment or the time.
18 months after first watching SAWS video, I run across this and now it makes sense. WHEN we must aim with sidespin, know this system. As a noob, I was thinking this was an additional system for regular aiming, using sidespin. Since I didn't "get it", I didn't use it.
@@robertkerr229 I’m glad you “get” SAWS now. I hope it helps you as much as it helps me.
Lol never needed to skip a video within the few 15 seconds according to the creator. Thanks for that, and most importantly, you are very helpfull for the pool community!
@@D.H.1987 If you do in fact have “perfect intuition,” then I’m jealous. Even the top pros don’t make every shot with sidespin, especially the ones with fast speed and lots of spin.
Always amazing and helpful info from the Doc. Thanks!
I'm glad you think so. You're welcome!
Timing is impeccable fresh off work looking for something to watch thanks 🎱
@@jamillie87 I hope you enjoyed your post-work viewing experience.
I have been testing some of your tips using Virtual Pool 4 and have to say, the tips are spot on and so is the simulator. It's not like real pool, but I find that it does an excellent job replicating the results of English and angles. After all it is just math. Can' t wait to try some of this on a real table. Problem is the nearest pool hall to me is like 10 miles...easy. I might have to buy my own table and turn my dining room into a pool room. I mean I live alone and don't use the 13x18 space for anything else so why not. Can probably get a seven foot table in there. Anyway, great tips/instructions. Some of the best on You Tube !!
Virtual Pool isn't perfect, but it is certainly one of the best simulators.
I'm a decent shot but my side spin control was abysmal, wanted to improve that part of my game so spent the whole summer practicing every shot with side spin. The amount of information you've collected and shared regarding side spin is overwhelming. Thank you for all you've done and shared!!
I spent a huge amount of time fiddling with BHE and FHE. Almost committed to purchasing SAWS, however I didn't because something happened intuitively. It finally clicked what was happening to the cue ball with regards to squirt and swerve. You share the physics immediately in your videos, that hitting with side results in the cueball squirting away and swerving back. I was hearing it, seeing it, but it wasn't sinking in until I actually tried things on the table, especially when hitting with inside. I've been intimidated and avoided inside spin because I rarely had good results, like 5-10% of the time pocketing the ball, let alone having the cue ball spin off a rail to an acceptable spot. After I forced myself to practice the shots, and I finally figured out what direction to adjust for, my success rate skyrocketed and fell like its more like 80+ percent. It feels absolutely amazing to be on the hill, and see that holding for the 8 ball is going to be tough, however inside spin will easily get me there if I stay smooth and execute. It looks so dang cool and makes me feel like a real pool player when I nail it! My confidence has soared and I have zero hesitation using spin when needed.
Thank you again Dr. Dave!
You're welcome. I'm glad to here the world of sidespin is clicking for you.
thanks again dr dave, gonna give these a try when i hit the pool hall on monday
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
I hope you find one or more of the approaches useful (especially SAWS).
Dr Dave here!!!!! 🎉🎉
@@h3artbreak3r1994 DAM right! 🤓
Love the video, especially the couple shots where you showed the adjustment in aim. I'd love to see another where you focus on just that, showing the shooters view for a sidespin shot without adjustment, and then dictate BHE, and FHE adjustment as you do them and how much of each. I'm not asking for you to give away the secret of Saws or how you got to the amount of BHE/FHE, just show more detail about each shot before and after aim adjustment. And saying that, I understand it's not that easy to do if you go down on the shot with the adjustment already baked in.
@@aarondavenport9488 This video included many examples (not just a couple). And more can be found, with lots of detailed info, here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
Enjoy!
Well said and thanks for all you swerve to do
Thank you, and you're welcome.
Just a reminder that even with SAWS, you still need to develop a good fundamental of shooting straight + rather precise speed controls. On top of that, you will still need good estimations of distance and to account for table conditions and even ball conditions when taking throws into the picture.
The point is, you will still need a lot of practice when using SAWS. And shooting with side spin is still hard😅
@@shuchengchao Good points. Doing anything well requires practice. However, judging the distance between the CB and OB is very simple. Also, SAWS has an adjustment built in for table conditions. Regardless, practice and consistency are important.
The method that has worked for me the best - by far - is to pivot when going down on the shot. This is what Jeremy Jones teaches. When you get used to it, and it doesn't take long, it becomes very natural and automatic. You almost don't have to think about it. In the end run what JJ teaches could be a form of BHE and FHE - I am not sure.
I also know a lot of Filipino players that pivot for english when going down on the shot and you can also see, if you watch closely, many pros do the same thing. It just takes some time to get used to. It took me literally a couple of hours and I was fairly comfortable with it - then I have just fine tuned it.
@@jamesdavis8731 It sounds simple, but the real “magic” is pivoting the right amount based on shot speed, shot distance, and the type and amount of spin. It can take lots of trial and error to develop the “fine tuning” for this over a wide range of shots, but it is a common approach used by many top players like JJ.
You do good videos, dave.
@@joneslaakso Thanks. I enjoy creating them, and I like the practice they give me.
it would be a good video for you to test deflection between the revo, Jflowers SMO, and whyte carbon. From my experience the whyte carbon leads the pack in terms of lowest deflection.
@@Danks-vz5xz I carefully test the Predator Revo, Cuetec Cynergy, Carbon Whyte, and other shafts in the videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/
Check them out. The Revo had the least CB deflection.
But lower deflection isn’t necessarily better per the video and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/
Bought saws Friday . For this on Sunday (: I’ll take it as a free bonus
@@MedleyHeatingACPlumbing I hope you enjoy and benefit from SAWS.
start with slow speed, medium distance shots with a trace of side. You can hammer some hangers with extreme spin for fun, but start with a trace of side.
@@tomaszsosnowski9279 Agreed. It is best to start with sidespin in moderation.
Hi Dave, can you give your two cents on cues joint question - radial vs qr? Is that a myth or fact that radial provides better feel, more action on cue ball since it gives one piece feel of cue, better connection etc...
@@Brandzaman39 I don’t think it really matters, unless you think it does. The mind is a powerful thing. Even if the sound or “feel” were different, the difference is unimportant, IMO. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/
Is moving the whole body for bhe equivalent to just moving the elbow left or right?Only if they are equivalent can bhe automatically correct unintentional side spin errors (provided the cue is held from natural pivot point)which are mostly due to elbow or wrist movement.
@@navjot4086604 Yes, and yes, but only for very short shots at very fast speed. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/
Hey i was just wondering where do you get ur cloth target ring that i have seen you use frequently in your videos? love the content keep it up.
The cloth target is from BullseyeBilliards.com.
Hello Dr. Dave can you recomend mee what kind of brand. I can buy and not expensive. And what kind of tip. Weigh and grip.
Ty best regards Juan
I have good general advice here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/selecting/
My first comment here, love your videos Dave! One thing i noticed at 9:05 - BHE - isnt head supposed to be locked still while moving back hand?
@@lan2443 I think it is best for the whole body to move with BHE, so the arm-body relationship does not change. Also, most people don’t have enough body clearance to move the back hand toward the body. Or are you referring to moving the back hand during the stroke? If so, see the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/swoop-swipe/
Hi Dave! Is miscue limit depends on cue speed? Means same poin on ball can have enough grip on slow cue speed and be miscue at high cue speed because not enough grip? Thanks in advance!)
Yes. Miscue limit does not depend on cue speed in any practical sense.
What about deflection, will deflection be bigger at high speed at the same point?
@@ОлегКамуз-в5ы Initial squirt does not depend on shot speed, but swerve varies a lot with speed, so net CB deflection varies a lot with shot speed and distance. See the demonstrations at the beginning of the video. See also:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/speed-effects/
Dave in terms of what the players are looking at. Do you think pros look at the center ball shot-line when playing with side (when they are looking at the object ball) and are simply aware of how far their cue is away from this line. Or do you think they look down a different shot line, one which takes the side into account? My current method has been to stay looking at the center-ball shot line, and I'm simply aware of the angle my cue forms with this line. I know some snooker coaches say they use 'parallel side' which implies they are looking down a side-adjusted shot line, but I'm not sure I always trust in a good players ability to reverse engineer and explain their intuition. For example Barry Stark says that when he's using helping side (gearing English) that he's aiming at the center ball shot line, but other coaches like Barton Snooker think that all the players are actually adjusting their aim point slightly even when using gearing english and they aren't even always aware that they're doing it. Though in my limited experience a player can never be truly accurate over long distance, unless he has a very specific point that he's aiming his cue at.
@@Dhirallin When using sidespin, I think most top players look at where they want the CB to go, realizing that the cue and stroke are pointing offline to accomplish this. I personally prefer looking along the direction the cue is pointing (to help stroke straight in that direction), realizing that this will send the CB in the direction I was aiming before the SAWS pivots.
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks, that makes sense, since I've also noticed, that if my cue is not pointing in exactly the same direction as my eyes, it has a tendancy to curve on the stroke, since my arm is subconsciously trying to steer the cue back onto the line I'm looking down. I confirmed that using the QMD Stroke Analyzer. Sometimes it still hits the correct spot on the white, but it's more random.
Dave a very important realisation for me with my game, is I noticed if the side and aiming adjustment is very small (i.e. gearing english levels) then when I'm looking at the object ball, it can actually appear as if my cue is pointing exactly at the center-ball aim point. But when I look down at the cue ball, I see that it's not. This seems to be like an optical illusion, caused by the end of the tip of the cue not being perpendicular to the shot line. I.e. because you're intersecting an angled line (the end of the tip) rather than a perfect horizontal line if that makes sense? It's made me realise that when coaches and pros talk about checking that they are 'in the center of the cue ball' that this check is quite a bit more sophisticated than they make out. I understand now why they spend so much time staring at the cue ball.
In some ways I feel like you can even exploit the optical illusion. For example, if you aim your cue at a specific point while looking at the object ball, and then flick your eyes down to the cue ball / cue tip. You can instantly see whether your cue is pointing 'straight' relative to that previous perspective. In that way you can indirectly tell that your cue is not in the center of the white even without looking at the white. I'm convinced that this is what players are _actually_ doing when they flick their eyes between cue ball and object ball, but they're terrible at explaining it.
@@Dhirallin Moving the eyes up and down during shot alignment is critical to verify the target, cue direction, and tip contact point.
Hola desde España, una pregunta.... Q marca es el taco con el q ha realizado el vídeo? Muchas gracias por el contenido, es vital para todos jugadores. Gracias.
The wood cue used in an early demo is a 12mm solid maple Players cue. The carbon fiber cue used for most of the video is a Predator Revo 12.4.
Been experimenting with this for a few days now since you posted this latest video. Perhaps I missed this in the video, but it’s not clear exactly what “70%”represents. For backhand English, e.g.,, does 70% essentially mean 70% of the distance from center of the cue ball to the maximum side spin aim point? That’s what has been working for me so far.
The percentages apply to where the tip is ending up (based on the amount of spin the shot calls for). If the shot calls for maximum spin, then you go 70% of the way to maximum using BHE, and the remaining 30% with FHE. If the shot only calls for half of maximum spin, you go 70% of the way to half with BHE, and the remaining 30% to half with FHE.
@@DrDaveBilliards ok! I’m glad I asked the question. I’ve been applying this as if the shot called for maximum sidespin only. After several hours of this, I thought “well this is a pretty limited system”. But now it’s clear how to apply it to any shot!
@@vpschroeder Correct. The percentages are valid for shots of any amount of sidespin.
So I'm imagining that saws also accounts for spin induced throw?
Yes, based on the principles at the bottom of the page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/throw/
what size Revo shaft is that?
12.4
I've basically been using saws for many years already, but never made a diagram for it. I had some basic adjustments remembered and would work from there. I'm not an intuition/feel player, I need something/strict rules that I can always fall back on, because intuition and feel are too reliant on the state of mind.
I've went through the 'trouble' (it really isn't... you can do it in 20 minutes or so) of making a diagram and it turns out my old 314 has a very linear deflection behaviour. 90% FHE/10% BHE on slow close shots, 50-50 on medium/medium, and 10-90 on hard long shots. This is with an almost 12 inch bridge length.
I did notice however on shots from the rail, where I cannot get that 12 inch and have to jack up slightly, I need to adjust 10% the other way with BHE.
One question: I had a tournament yesterday (finished 2nd, happy enough with that after 10 year hiatus and resumed play since 3,5 months, one opponent asked me if I was able to miss lol) but the consitions were pretty crappy (warped rails, damp cloths, worn balls) and my regular adjustments didn't seem to work that well on anything but the short shots, and I struggled with that the entire day. Didn't have the time to experiment with what extra adjustment I needed. What could've been the culprit? Does cloth condition affect the deflection (due to the cueball resisting initial movement more) ? Also, I had the feeling the cueballs were a bit too light (couldn't get a powerfull break either) and if I'm not mistaken that would make the ball deflect more?
I also tested a Longoni Luna Nera for a short period some time ago too, because I was curious about the carbon hype that I totally missed because of the hiatus... gotta say I wasn't impressed... needed almost full BHE on slow short shots in stead of the almost full FHE I'm used to.... that doesn't scream LD to me. The hit felt good enough though, not that tinny hollow sound I hear other carbon shafts make.
Cloth conditions definitely affect CB deflection. That's why I have the cloth conditions adjustments built into SAWS. See the pertinent "Corrections" on the 2nd page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/SAWS_calibration.pdf
If the conditions are radically different from your calibration pool table, a larger correction might be required.
@@DrDaveBilliards Ah cool. I knew about the top/bottom corrections, but completely missed the cloth corrections. Will keep it in mind the next time when I'm on a bad table, and use it in my warmup.
I hope it helps next time.
Saturday evening video?
Yep. I thought I would mix things up a bit to see if it makes a difference.
I wanted people to have something ready to watch before and between football games tomorrow. :)
One reason why I am apprehensive to even think about BHE/FHE was the reasoning Darren Appleton gave in one of his videos which advocated for the "intuitive approach" as the preferred approach.
His reasoning was that people who are not straight shooters with bad/decent fundamentals cannot consistently shoot straight along the new shot line (after FHE/BHE) while still visulaizing about the correct path.
Either you are a straight shooter or you should strive to be one.. and perhaps learning FHE/BHE pushes a player away from this "ideal state".
Is it still worth learning the SAWS framework (philosophically) if I don't want my already poor straight shooting to get affected?
Hope the question makes sense doc.
In game situations do you rely on SAWS or the Intuitive approach?
And is there a systematic way to build this intuition withiut ever "pivoting anything"?
@@parashararamesh4252 I don’t think there is any issue with stroking straight with SAWS, assuming you do the pivots correctly and focus on the final cue direction during the final stroke. For more details about this and related common questions about SAWS, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
Concerning how to build sidespin aiming intuition quickly, I recommend the SAWS calibration procedure. Even if you never use SAWS, the calibration procedure will teach you a lot about how to aim when using sidespin.
Cám ơn những video của tiến sĩ Dave đã giúp tôi thấy trò chơi billiard này kỳ diệu như thế nào, mặc dù tôi chỉ xem qua nó trong các giải đấu chiếu trên tivi, và sẵn tiện, xin hỏi tiến sĩ Dave có biết về trò chơi 8 ball pool không? Tôi thấy trên đó có những người có thể thực hiện những đường bi rất ảo, đặc biệt là thứ gọi là “kiss shot”. Tôi biết rằng những đường bi này hầu hết đến từ những người chơi gian lận có dùng công cụ hỗ trợ trong trò chơi này, nhưng tôi tự hỏi liệu tiến sĩ Dave có thể giải thích về việc đã gặp những pha đánh gọi là “kiss shot” đó trên bàn billiard thật hay chưa? Xin cám ơn tiến sĩ 🙏!
Sorry, but I only play "real pool." I do not play with the simulator games. Concerning "kiss shots," lots of examples can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/carom/
yeah 🔥🔥
@@panjisadewo8951 DAM right! 🤓
I like the concepts in this lesson, but it still is a bit confusing. I think it would have been more effective if you had hit a ball straight in to show how the side English impacts the ball it contacts versus hitting in to a pocket. That is where the effects of applying side spin are easily demonstrated...IMO anyway.
This video covers many important sidespin principles, so it is difficult to absorb everything with one viewing. Also, the best way to master this stuff is to actually try every shot in the video at the table. BTW, if you want to see the effects of hitting balls straight in, see my Sidespin Myth Busting videos:
th-cam.com/video/QA7FyS6tWdY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/9TokaN0ghSA/w-d-xo.html
Enjoy!
Don't these BHE/FHE shifts effect your stance negatively? One has to be a little off balance, right? Is it the reason why pros prefer intuitive approach?
@@babdz FYI, these and more common questions about SAWS are answered here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
The small motions required for the pivots, if done properly, do not bother me at all.
I do it by intuition. But I have played for 26 years, so... question for you, Dr.Dave. Is it worthwhile learning to play left-handed? Also, do you have any videos/resources about how humidity affects balls? Also is it worth it to learn to play left-handed? (I am right handed)
@@IndianHeathen1982 I think the time is better spent learning to master the mechanical bridge. For temperature and humidity effects, see the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/humidity-effects/
Watch Ronnie O'Sullivan play snooker ambidextrously, and see if it's worthwhile for him.
(That 2nd question is all Dr. Dave's, and watch out for trick answers! 😅)
@@kurtkensson2059 If somebody is ambidextrous, it is definitely helpful being able to play with both hands. For most mere mortals, mechanical bridge mastery is a more-efficient solution.
@@DrDaveBilliards ooh, you misunderstood my point. I am pretty proficient with the bridge. My question was more something along the lines of "Does cross training with the non-dominant hand help with the dominant hand?" in terms of technique improvement. I did train with my non-dominant hand today and I became hyperaware of technical stuff. So, yeah, I guess I answered my own question in a sense. It helps you be aware of what exactly you do. Maybe more of a placebo. Scientific papers don't seem to have a consesus though...
Thank you for the humidity resources.
@@IndianHeathen1982 Sorry I misunderstood your point. Good job answering your own question. Although, I think one can focus on their fundamentals without attempting to train with the non-dominant hand. Lots of help can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/fundamentals/
Anymore if I see POV in the title of anything not using a head mounted cam I will click "do not recommend", so thanks for that, lol. My game is still below T-shirt level, but this stuff is so fascinating to know.
@@onemoremisfit The head-mounted camera is a real pain in the a** (and forehead), so I’m glad at least one person appreciates it.
@@DrDaveBilliards 9 years ago I did some shotgunning (clay targets) wearing a gopro, comfort was not an issue for me but the real pain was aligning it by guesswork without a phone app that enables you to monitor it. The weather and sky conditions were ideal and I got lucky with some useable footage. I could even freeze frame the shot cloud approaching the target.
Any pivots after you're down for the shot are messing with your stroke delivery, so intuitive is the way... Or, at least do your whatever system calculations while still standing.
@@Krushard Based on my personal experience and the experience of students, this is not the case. For more info, see the answers to the pertinent questions here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
The aiming method taught by Jeremy Jones seems to be the most straightforward. With FHE, he aligns the bridge hand before placing it on the table: th-cam.com/video/Qs2i9zImoU4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EtYx34rqLRvt2HyO
@Jay21121 The method JJ describes is the same as the 2nd version of the “Intuitive Method” in my video. It requires judgement and feel to know how to pivot based on shot speed and distance and on the amount and type of spin being used. I agree that it sounds simple, but it is not as simple as it sounds if you want to be effective over a wide range of shot types. As I prove later in my video, pure FHE alone is not effective over a wide range of shots. JJ aims effectively because he intuitively knows how to adjust his aim properly (with a variable pivot) based on countless hours of smart practice and successful experience.
This is why I wont even bother with trying to learn side spin, much to difficult for those of use that will always just be regular players. I'll stick with screw and forward spin shots, much easier, and have a wide range of applications.
@@fedup7416 That’s a smart choice. Although, if you want to continue to improve, you will need to incorporate sidespin into your game at some point.
@@DrDaveBilliards SO far I haven't found a good instructional on how to practice. I need something simple on where to start.
@@fedup7416 FYI, there is lots of good practice advice here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/practice/advice/
Plug for saws......nothing new here
The one thing that was new was the GoPro POV views of the sidespin shot examples, and of the BHE and FHE pivot stuff. Many people have asked for this in the past.
None of these techniques is "new" (except SAWS, which was created in 2019), but I think I presented them in "new" ways in a comprehensive video that compares all of them in one place. That might be of value to some people.
You’re good aiming right but not so much left. It’s almost like basketball
@@coltenwiseman116 Sorry, but I don’t know what you mean.
The method that works best for me is avoid english whenever possible. None and i mean none of these systems work well for me. Idk if its complete lack of talent old age or what but i just struggle with it.
@@Otingocni That’s a good approach unless you want your game to advance more. Sidespin use is critical for high-level play. Although, it is possible to play well at an intermediate level without sidespin.
@@DrDaveBilliards not so much a matter of want for me but a matter of what works and what doesnt. Maybe in twenty more years ill get it if i live that long but im old already.
@@Otingocni Understood.