Interestingly enough, Paula cannot play back audio with a sample rate above around 30khz unless you are using a 31khz display mode or if you're using RTG like the pistorm you have to type in the 2 commands (the 2nd one will make the changes survive a reboot): SetEnv Picasso96/AmigaVideo 31kHz SetEnv EnvArc:Picasso96/AmigaVideo 31kHz If your audio software is using AHI, you can also find that when you apply the above setting, the sample rate slider for Paula audio can also be increased to 48kHz because normally the slider won't go up that far At least this is for 14 bit Paula modes. Not sure if the regular 8 bit mode requires this
Audiomaster IV got me many jobs in radio and other audio-related roles. Although I did not spread the disk, the disk was already spread to me... but I did spread the word. Cool Edit, Adobe Audition, all have roots in this awesome box of tools
Maybe the reason that works only with "real" rca outputs is because it wants a "line level" output (usualy 2.0Vrms). Headphone outputs have much higher power, because they are designed to drive headphones. You can try an adapter from a real cd player to a male 3.5 mm jack, and then with a female 3.5 mm back to the rca of the amiga. It should work fine. Anyway, great video as always! Keep up the good work!
I had Technosound Turbo, with a much improved version of the software, and used Audiomaster IV to edit them. I still use that combination today when editing samples for my games.
@@10MARC - btw, I used your video about HamView to make 2 games so far, Jari-Matti Rally and Trans-pennine express on itch. Next one is Crysis. Can the Amiga play Crysis??
OK, so receiving input from something amplified like my phone or the computer screws it up then. Maybe some other digitizers properly filter our those signals and that's why they work OK with those sources?
@10MARC it should work with your phone etc but you'd need to turn the volume output level down to near it's lowest setting, which itself would give quality issues. The DAC in a phone just isn't designed for that.
Wow. I remember, earlier on, an audio digitizer that some university student designed. It was published somewhere, probably in an alternate Amiga publication. (You know that there were those, like Amiga Scientific). Anyway, I even corresponded with the designer. I gathered all the components, including case, etched my own circuit board, and then for some reason never got around to building the audio digitizer! Yes, I'm an idiot, but I was a busy guy.
I remember hearing about the "build your own" audio digitizers. Looking at mine, they do appear to be pretty simple and straightforward devices. I should see if I can find an old article on a DYI unit.
I have a sound sampler or two in storage back on the mainland but I have no idea when I'll ever have access to any of it again, so I think I might just buy a new sound sampler, as you pointed out they're handy when you wan to make your own games. It's so cool that we still have the option to buy brand new Amiga hardware in 2024!
I built a similar sampler from a project in CU-Amiga magazine. Worked really well but looked like it might explode at any moment - dodgy soldering and wires everywhere, stuffed into an old RF modulator box. Wish I'd kept it!
Excellent review, and I can't hazard a guess as to where the problems with the adapter may lie. I have seen this on eBay and would have picked it up, but ended up going with a nice boxed GVP DSS8... :P Back in the day I had a Microdeal VideoMaster that slid on the side of the A500, and that could grab video as well as audio. It was limited but still worked quite well, and I wish I still had the recordings I did with it. I mainly used it to grab samples for songs I had made in OctaMED. Good times.
Started off with Aegis AudioMaster to make samples for my keyboard, then added five Sunrize AD516 sound cards to fill up one of my A2000s as a dedicated multi-track recording studio with 10 inputs per pass, hooked up to the mixer board. Your device needs line level input volume.
@@10MARC The humble Amiga launched both a music and film career. Dr. T's with Bars & Pipes made music for the radio, and the Toaster / Flyer with LW3D for film.
@@mikedefoy that is just brilliant. The C64 and Amiga also launched my career owning my own technology consulting business. I will have to look up some of your work. I assume you are on IMDB?
I am still occasionally using the original future sound for the 1000. Just about wore it out back in the day. Will have to check out the Technosound for the 4000.
Very nice. I think it would have been nice if you also mentioned that those chips were actually produced at the same plant where the Rockwell Retro Encabulator components were fabricated and manufactured.
It's all about impedance matching. It not the amplitude. RCA direct is meant for high-Z signals. Your sources were designed to drive headphones etc most likely as low as 8 ohms. The impedance mismatch is most likely your problem. Most of the time it doesn't cause a problem using a low-Z source to a high-Z load, but in your case it seems to be an issue. Most of the time the issue occurs with a high-Z source to a low-Z load. using the mixer changes the impedance to match.
What a fantastic explanation. I really appreciate it! I guess I was just spoiled by my other audio digitizer working fine with those sources - but it is also a much more complicated digitizer.
So high impedance is usually a line-in/out signal, right? Btw, those Behringer mixers are also pre-amps. Wonder if Doug also bypassed it and hooked the rca out directly to the digitizer..
My guess is that you have an impedance problem: 3,5mm connectors typically are used for headphones, there you have an impedance of around 32..200Ohm while a line input has around 60kOhm. So the output impedance of a line output is quite high (around 1..4kOhm) but needs to be low to drive a headphone. The specs e. g. in my cassette deck manual are quite incomplete but for headphones I found for example 3,3mW output power for a 32Ohm load. That leads to an output level of about 0,3V while line output is documented with 0,5V. So while the voltages do not differ too much my educated guess is that the digitizer interacts with the output impedance of the source and needs a certain impedance. You may want to try to put a resistor of 1..4kOhm between the output of the source and the input of the digitizer. I would be interested in the result...
Since the problem seems to be solved by running it thru a mixer, I am just going to test the same sources running thru my halfway decent mixer and my cheap and cheerful $35 tiny mixer. I will probably do a follow up show
@TLang-el6sk He needs to lowering volume on phone. Every consumer audio equipment dont have hi input voltage. It is usaly somewhere between 150-350 mV (RMS). Standard for consumer audio equpment LINE IN is 0.447V or -10dBV max. Mobile phones have headphne output reference level at 0dBV or 1V on max volume or higher. Lovering volume somewhere between 30-40% of max volume level at mobile phone can be ideal to achieve -10 output level for line input at digitizer.
The sample quality doesn't depend on the two pieces of software you used. On the Techno Sound software, you had the filter set to "On", reducing the clarity of the playback. It's a crude hardware low-pass filter on the motherboard. Switch it off and it will sound just as good :)
I will have to check that. Sometimes the buttons become totally unresponsive. I can turn something on or off, or switch stereo to Mono and then suddenly the buttons just refuse to work again until I quit and relaunch the software.
I loved this one Doug. I'm interested in the answers to the noise question. I have my original Technosound Turbo and recently gave it a run out. I was disappointed with the quality of the samples I made using the bundled Technosound software, but got great recordings when using the sampler within ProTracker. MAYBE I happened to switch adaptors and it wasn't the software after all, I can't tell now. but I may go back and experiment again. PS I made music using stuff from my kitchen: th-cam.com/video/qrVn3vv4cTE/w-d-xo.html
I honestly get better samples using other software. Maybe I am missing something in the Techno sound software... Take a look at the comments on the video. There are a lot of good tips and explanations for the issues I had.
@@10MARC you're right. I noticed one comment about turning the filter setting *off* in Technosound for better quality. Maybe that was it. I definitely want to play with my TST some more now.
I'm thinking you're having a impedence issue. Or its a line level vs volume level issue. For example, a line out from something like say an old CD player is NOT the same as a headphone jack, even if they were both RCA jacks. Headphone jack is amplified, not raw signal.
You are most likely 100% right. I guess some digitizers were tolerant of line level inputs and some were not. I know my Future sound on my A1000 has about 15 IC's on it compared to the two of this unit. That must be why my FutureSound works fine with amplified signals.
Arrrggghhhhh stop with the demon voice I'm drinking good beer (Dragon's Milk) ! 😀 I have a DSS8+ love that thing. Even now surprises people as to what I can do with on 30+ year old hardware. Did a thing about a year ago where I recorded some speech and said I would modify it. 15-20 mins later I did the usual cut the voice up and changed pitch ect and played that impressed but not that impressed. But as they walked away I played a quick DnB track I created (most of the time was spent doing that) using their voice totally, stopped them in their tracks mind blown (the track sucked BTW I'm no musician) I really need to get Imagine out and do an animation with a dinosaur singing to a track, I lost all my work years ago. lol
@@10MARC Back then (I still lived in the UK) I would say it was the Microdeal Megalosound that I saw the most, followed by the Technosound then the DSS. If memory is correct the DSS was a bit pricey. I have both a Meglosound and the DSS, with the DSS being a far better sampler. But the Meglosound does have it's uses with it's obviously more retro grungy sound (comparative to now, back then it was just all kinds of fantastic) which is why I still have it. My friend had the Technosound first and it was awesome.
Interestingly enough, Paula cannot play back audio with a sample rate above around 30khz unless you are using a 31khz display mode or if you're using RTG like the pistorm you have to type in the 2 commands (the 2nd one will make the changes survive a reboot):
SetEnv Picasso96/AmigaVideo 31kHz
SetEnv EnvArc:Picasso96/AmigaVideo 31kHz
If your audio software is using AHI, you can also find that when you apply the above setting, the sample rate slider for Paula audio can also be increased to 48kHz because normally the slider won't go up that far
At least this is for 14 bit Paula modes. Not sure if the regular 8 bit mode requires this
Ah, I see. I will have to try that out. I do need to load AHI on this Amiga 500. I use it on most of my Amigas
Audiomaster IV got me many jobs in radio and other audio-related roles. Although I did not spread the disk, the disk was already spread to me... but I did spread the word. Cool Edit, Adobe Audition, all have roots in this awesome box of tools
For sure! Cool Edit was great software back in the day. Heck if I could still buy a copy of Audiomaster I certainly would!
Thank you Doug a great tutorial on sound capture.
Glad it was helpful!
Ahh, the Technosound Turbo... that brings back fond memories
It certainly is a fun little digitizer. Maybe not the most advanced for the Amiga, but it did the job
I believe that chip nearest to the parallel connector is the turbo encabulator.
Well obviously. That one is just a requirement!
This is one thing we been meaning to get to create some music. Thanks for making this vid!
Maybe the reason that works only with "real" rca outputs is because it wants a "line level" output (usualy 2.0Vrms). Headphone outputs have much higher power, because they are designed to drive headphones. You can try an adapter from a real cd player to a male 3.5 mm jack, and then with a female 3.5 mm back to the rca of the amiga. It should work fine.
Anyway, great video as always! Keep up the good work!
Thanks, I think that is exactly what the issue is. My other audio digitizer handles headphone output just fine, so I was surprised this one did not
I had Technosound Turbo, with a much improved version of the software, and used Audiomaster IV to edit them. I still use that combination today when editing samples for my games.
That is awesome that you are still using it! I love Audiomaster. I should spend more time with IV, but so far 3 has been really slick
@@10MARC - btw, I used your video about HamView to make 2 games so far, Jari-Matti Rally and Trans-pennine express on itch. Next one is Crysis. Can the Amiga play Crysis??
@@lifeschool oh nice! I need to check those out!!!!
It needs to receive input at Line Level only.
OK, so receiving input from something amplified like my phone or the computer screws it up then. Maybe some other digitizers properly filter our those signals and that's why they work OK with those sources?
@10MARC it should work with your phone etc but you'd need to turn the volume output level down to near it's lowest setting, which itself would give quality issues. The DAC in a phone just isn't designed for that.
@@KarlHamilton ok I will try that. I think I can just pump everything through my mixer, too, as that seems to work perfectly.
@@10MARC Because your mixer will output at line level / a compatible impedance
Very cool that these are still being made. I have a couple audio samplers in storage, but might pick one of these up!
One is never enough! They are a real hoot to use. I am milling over some creative ways I can use it in my shows
Wow. I remember, earlier on, an audio digitizer that some university student designed. It was published somewhere, probably in an alternate Amiga publication. (You know that there were those, like Amiga Scientific). Anyway, I even corresponded with the designer. I gathered all the components, including case, etched my own circuit board, and then for some reason never got around to building the audio digitizer! Yes, I'm an idiot, but I was a busy guy.
I remember hearing about the "build your own" audio digitizers. Looking at mine, they do appear to be pretty simple and straightforward devices. I should see if I can find an old article on a DYI unit.
I have a sound sampler or two in storage back on the mainland but I have no idea when I'll ever have access to any of it again, so I think I might just buy a new sound sampler, as you pointed out they're handy when you wan to make your own games. It's so cool that we still have the option to buy brand new Amiga hardware in 2024!
It really is awesome. Shame you cannot get back to your old hardware on the mainland!
I still have my MegaLoSound sampler! I usually sampled directly from within OctaMED, which worked great.
Oh that's cool! I am looking forward to the brand new Octamed being released in a few weeks.
I built a similar sampler from a project in CU-Amiga magazine. Worked really well but looked like it might explode at any moment - dodgy soldering and wires everywhere, stuffed into an old RF modulator box. Wish I'd kept it!
That sounds cool! I have heard that audio digitizers are pretty simple. Of course if I tried to build one from scratch I would burn my house down
Excellent review, and I can't hazard a guess as to where the problems with the adapter may lie. I have seen this on eBay and would have picked it up, but ended up going with a nice boxed GVP DSS8... :P
Back in the day I had a Microdeal VideoMaster that slid on the side of the A500, and that could grab video as well as audio. It was limited but still worked quite well, and I wish I still had the recordings I did with it. I mainly used it to grab samples for songs I had made in OctaMED. Good times.
Oh that Microdeal Video master sounds awesome! I have never heard of it! Now I need to find one.
Started off with Aegis AudioMaster to make samples for my keyboard, then added five Sunrize AD516 sound cards to fill up one of my A2000s as a dedicated multi-track recording studio with 10 inputs per pass, hooked up to the mixer board. Your device needs line level input volume.
Five AD516 cards! That's insane! I love it! I bet you made some awesome stuff with that.
I have one AD516 card and think it is great!
@@10MARC The humble Amiga launched both a music and film career. Dr. T's with Bars & Pipes made music for the radio, and the Toaster / Flyer with LW3D for film.
@@mikedefoy that is just brilliant. The C64 and Amiga also launched my career owning my own technology consulting business. I will have to look up some of your work. I assume you are on IMDB?
Still got mine in the retroshelf :) actually plan to use it to make samples for the "amigo" sampler in my DAW =)
Sweet! Nice to hear it is going to get some use!
I am still occasionally using the original future sound for the 1000. Just about wore it out back in the day. Will have to check out the Technosound for the 4000.
I am just thrilled with my FutureSound. Really nice audio quality. It is MUCH better than my A1000 PerfectSound, but not nearly as cute!
Very nice. I think it would have been nice if you also mentioned that those chips were actually produced at the same plant where the Rockwell Retro Encabulator components were fabricated and manufactured.
Ha!
It's all about impedance matching. It not the amplitude. RCA direct is meant for high-Z signals. Your sources were designed to drive headphones etc most likely as low as 8 ohms. The impedance mismatch is most likely your problem. Most of the time it doesn't cause a problem using a low-Z source to a high-Z load, but in your case it seems to be an issue. Most of the time the issue occurs with a high-Z source to a low-Z load. using the mixer changes the impedance to match.
What a fantastic explanation. I really appreciate it! I guess I was just spoiled by my other audio digitizer working fine with those sources - but it is also a much more complicated digitizer.
So high impedance is usually a line-in/out signal, right? Btw, those Behringer mixers are also pre-amps. Wonder if Doug also bypassed it and hooked the rca out directly to the digitizer..
Wow. Still have my original.
That's too cool! Send pics! I would love to see it.
Good video. wonderful. I like it!!. Saludos desde argentina.
Thanks so much for the kind words!
My guess is that you have an impedance problem: 3,5mm connectors typically are used for headphones, there you have an impedance of around 32..200Ohm while a line input has around 60kOhm. So the output impedance of a line output is quite high (around 1..4kOhm) but needs to be low to drive a headphone. The specs e. g. in my cassette deck manual are quite incomplete but for headphones I found for example 3,3mW output power for a 32Ohm load. That leads to an output level of about 0,3V while line output is documented with 0,5V.
So while the voltages do not differ too much my educated guess is that the digitizer interacts with the output impedance of the source and needs a certain impedance. You may want to try to put a resistor of 1..4kOhm between the output of the source and the input of the digitizer. I would be interested in the result...
Since the problem seems to be solved by running it thru a mixer, I am just going to test the same sources running thru my halfway decent mixer and my cheap and cheerful $35 tiny mixer. I will probably do a follow up show
@TLang-el6sk He needs to lowering volume on phone. Every consumer audio equipment dont have hi input voltage. It is usaly somewhere between 150-350 mV (RMS). Standard for consumer audio equpment LINE IN is 0.447V or -10dBV max. Mobile phones have headphne output reference level at 0dBV or 1V on max volume or higher. Lovering volume somewhere between 30-40% of max volume level at mobile phone can be ideal to achieve -10 output level for line input at digitizer.
The sample quality doesn't depend on the two pieces of software you used. On the Techno Sound software, you had the filter set to "On", reducing the clarity of the playback. It's a crude hardware low-pass filter on the motherboard. Switch it off and it will sound just as good :)
I will have to check that. Sometimes the buttons become totally unresponsive. I can turn something on or off, or switch stereo to Mono and then suddenly the buttons just refuse to work again until I quit and relaunch the software.
LOL Amiga Smurf(ette)!
Tee hee hee!
The software for Technosound Turbo 2 was a lot nicer than the original version. I'm guessing that's the one that is PAL only 🙁
Ya, the later versions seemed a bit more stable and less janky.
I loved this one Doug. I'm interested in the answers to the noise question. I have my original Technosound Turbo and recently gave it a run out. I was disappointed with the quality of the samples I made using the bundled Technosound software, but got great recordings when using the sampler within ProTracker. MAYBE I happened to switch adaptors and it wasn't the software after all, I can't tell now. but I may go back and experiment again. PS I made music using stuff from my kitchen: th-cam.com/video/qrVn3vv4cTE/w-d-xo.html
I honestly get better samples using other software. Maybe I am missing something in the Techno sound software...
Take a look at the comments on the video. There are a lot of good tips and explanations for the issues I had.
@@10MARC you're right. I noticed one comment about turning the filter setting *off* in Technosound for better quality. Maybe that was it. I definitely want to play with my TST some more now.
Without AGA you can play up to 28Khz with Paula. With AGA Paula can Play up to 56Khz Audio.
Love me some 32 bit data paths!
I'm thinking you're having a impedence issue. Or its a line level vs volume level issue. For example, a line out from something like say an old CD player is NOT the same as a headphone jack, even if they were both RCA jacks. Headphone jack is amplified, not raw signal.
You are most likely 100% right. I guess some digitizers were tolerant of line level inputs and some were not. I know my Future sound on my A1000 has about 15 IC's on it compared to the two of this unit. That must be why my FutureSound works fine with amplified signals.
Arrrggghhhhh stop with the demon voice I'm drinking good beer (Dragon's Milk) ! 😀
I have a DSS8+ love that thing. Even now surprises people as to what I can do with on 30+ year old hardware. Did a thing about a year ago where I recorded some speech and said I would modify it. 15-20 mins later I did the usual cut the voice up and changed pitch ect and played that impressed but not that impressed. But as they walked away I played a quick DnB track I created (most of the time was spent doing that) using their voice totally, stopped them in their tracks mind blown (the track sucked BTW I'm no musician)
I really need to get Imagine out and do an animation with a dinosaur singing to a track, I lost all my work years ago. lol
Yes, the DSS8+ was an American favorite. I occasionally send voice samples of "The Evil Gnome" To my pals at "Pixel Garden Podcast". It's a hoot!
@@10MARC Back then (I still lived in the UK) I would say it was the Microdeal Megalosound that I saw the most, followed by the Technosound then the DSS. If memory is correct the DSS was a bit pricey.
I have both a Meglosound and the DSS, with the DSS being a far better sampler. But the Meglosound does have it's uses with it's obviously more retro grungy sound (comparative to now, back then it was just all kinds of fantastic) which is why I still have it. My friend had the Technosound first and it was awesome.
Pfft, "demon"? Nah, that's just an effect used for making vaporwave and related genres of music.