Thank you so much for the "down to earth" explaination of these in depth mechanics. I have only played DPS in wow since vinella. This kind of analysis really does help my perspective and gameplay.
Healing always feels better with rot damage (sprinkled with small spikes). You are required to heal constantly and have more agency on your decisions - it makes the healing a group effort. Instead of the toxic snipe’fest that this constant yo-yo damage creates.
Yep. Before they were just nerfing healers. If they're increasing player healthpools and NOT increasing enemy damage, then they're actually giving healers more time.
That is the main issue I had with the change in DF, if you buff player HP and damage done to players both with 25%, nothing changes when it comes to burst damage. Blizzard even said in the change notes that the change was made to threaten players with other things than bursty damage and one-shots. Ofc that did not pan out because that is not how math works. I don't understand how blizzard and tons of players supporting the change believed it would actually change the damage profile. Now just buffing health without the damage part actually does change it, but I kinda wish they would just squish the health a bit and reduced the healing and damage done to players instead, which would do the exact same thing. I always found it silly when the numbers starts to scale in the millions, but eh. I dream of a day where healing is more of a constant thing that is more like a throughput counterpart of DPS, and not this bursty mess we have today, but I am sure we'll end up where we are now again later in TWW as we always do.
im all for bigger health bars, less reaction healing, more mana management(recently that's been a joke) efficient vs i need to top everyone because scary moment coming or currently happening. then recover with efficient spells
the problem with one shots on tidral is that if someone screws up the mechanic they one-shot the whole raid... if they just died then who cares, but they kill everyone else, including the healers,... instead of instantly killing people or doing tons of damage, they should make mechanics that reduce your haste by 50% or reduce dmg done by 30%.. then the dps will avoid the mechanics for sure cause it affects their parse
There has been no solutions given on the design of fights, so this is more of a "we're nerfing you so we can give other roles a semblance of a challenge, but we're actually not changing anything, the new 4 million HP bar will still get one shot on a 10+ for not pressing their stops or running into fire, hope you like the pugging experience nerds."
@@Zkippe Hope so as well, they are really trying this time and l can already feel the difference on beta. Hope everything goes well for you on TTW. Good luck 🤞
Could you please start adding your sources in descriptions or comments? You reference so many interesting pages and sheets but never link them anywhere
Dps and tanks can make mistakes, but healers dont get any chances. They have to heal those others mistakes while also healing damage that is regularly coming out, all ontop of mechanics, do dps, and affixes. Im not 100% sure what the perfect fix is.
I would be curious to see a reimagine of healers and damage patterns very similar to dps output, but in reverse. Few of any dps has a 3 min button they press by itself to do a big 1 shot meteor ability. Instead most dps CDs are some way of buffing the output over 10-20 seconds. Imagine if healing worked the same way. E.g. For the next 12 seconds your Prayer of Healing heals for 300% more. The design bosses around rot damage, or staggered damage. Healer can plan their CDs for a boss or trash pack, and they can have a ramp and flow like dps do. Would need to redesign most of the game, but yeah. Think that could be cool.
Healing could be in a better spot, but Blizzard also overestimates the average players ability to use their defensive kit decently. The huge damage intake is not supposed to be handled only by healers, which theoretically isnt a bad design choice.
In Dragonflight I played the first season (with Grievous affix), got the keystone achievement and uninstalled wow and its subscription. Not playing that kind of shit since then, especially after work.
I feel like it is so much invisible dmg in dungeons.. like where does it come from? Oh the group got half their hp cut, no cast, no frontal no nothing just a group wide slap! #Sneaky
I feel the same. I find this game so much more complex than it used to be, I don't understand how people keep focus and understand all the different mechanics.
Blizzard can't design fights because different classes take different amounts of damage. Shaman and hunters fall over to passive damage in raids. Though mages and locks seem to live forever. The bottom line is that. Passive raid damage for locks is a one shot for hunters and shaman.
At this point whoever at Blizzard s in charge of the healer gamplay/Mechanics has no idea what hes doing and what is fun for healers, they need to replace him with someone who actually plays healers.
wish they would go back to healers actually having to heal tanks instead of just making tanks a healer too.. when tanks actually took damage healers had something to do outside burst windows, keeping the tank alive through regular hits.. now healers are just a poopy dps that heal through burst windows and hope the dps know how to use defensives or be blamed for sucking at healing
As I see it, Blizzard keeps moving defensive and healing power to tanks and DPS so they have to nerf healers. The healer nerf sucked the first two times and I am not giving them a third chance.
The answer to infinite scaling M+ has never been monster damage scaling; it’s always been some kind of healing dampening instead. Just like monster health increasing with key level means it takes dps longer to kill them, increasing healing dampening accomplishes the same thing for healing that monster damage scaling is “meant to” without eventually hitting one-shot key levels; it takes longer to top people off. Or if dampening is unpopular due to healing meter numbers, then increase player health at the same rate as monster damage with key level.
I agree but I think this with a stat like spirit or something mana related would be nice. Also I think the dampening might be a little tricky with Hots and shields
Healing dampening will break tanks though. Either Blood DK is the only Tank to stay alive because it has the highest self healing or it will be the absolute worst because it loses healing and has not the damage reduction capabilities e.g. prot war has.
@@felixW94 Agreed, it would take significant rework and balance for some classes/abilities. No arguement there. I think it is worth the investment long-term though. I think of it as technical debt, with the current design/philosophy it's easier to just maintain the status quo vs to actually fix the root problem, which is significant work. The current design is a nightmare to balance long-term and requires a ton of iteration and wasted constant time-investment. That said, the sooner we get to the root problem the sooner we can move on and continue down the correct long-term path. There is also option 2 which kinda just solves most issues. Player health scaling with monster damage is basically what they are "trying" to do each time they blanket-increase player health by X percent - so they are already "close" to understanding the problem, just not quite hitting the home run. Scaling player health with monster damage is effectively the same as "not scaling player health or monster damage and simply applying healing dampening" as far as healing impact is concerned. It can even simplify balancing/tuning/dungeon_design in a lot of ways. IE If a boss AOE ability should nuke a group to 10% health, then it will always do that, the only difference is can the healer top off those higher health pools before that next AOE goes out. Healer checks can then be truely about output, and difficulty of bosses can decrease the interval between those AOE's going off (as the boss fight goes on, if dps are not killing quick enough, the healer checks become more frequent and a strong healer can buy the dps more time to do their job poorly) just to name one example of opportunities for interesting mechanics and ways for good healers to contribute to the group vs bad ones (much like good tanks and good dps can contribute in their respective roles). Right now, healer checks aren't even about the healer, it's ironically about dps properly using their defensives, and the healer is either capabable of a key level or not (binary is not great). Good healers should be able to make up for short-comings of other players.
Healing in WoW raids boring and idk how it's been acceptable for near 20 years. Unless you like clicking through an excel spreadsheet during boss fights. What kind of new player wants to play a class where you click squares?
@@SBqwerty you missed the point it's a group setting though, if you require 5 people to get through then the weight is on all 5 players. I like the situations like planning my teams cds for certin fights lize AV17 Where we need to use zephyer first then personals cause that means for the non one shots earlier I can't let them need them for the 4 pack pull earlier. So now the healing expectation is on me. They keep looking in m+ as it's encounter based but it's not it's one long encounter That needs to be counted out and played like a dance.
@@Poisonieer sure but that gameplay sucks and it shows in the numbers of healers that are leaving. There's ways to make cooldowns impactful without having the top people in a single global before they die
@@SBqwerty I don't know if that's the corolation though. And the part that confuses me is plenty of healers agree with me and there are alot that aren't. And the frustrating part is it dose always feel like the pug lords (god bless them) hate it but statisticly there are going to be keys that aren't pugable.
We need more damage over time to keep healers engaged while not making healing feel like 1 mistake on their part = wipe
Thank you so much for the "down to earth" explaination of these in depth mechanics. I have only played DPS in wow since vinella. This kind of analysis really does help my perspective and gameplay.
Healing always feels better with rot damage (sprinkled with small spikes). You are required to heal constantly and have more agency on your decisions - it makes the healing a group effort.
Instead of the toxic snipe’fest that this constant yo-yo damage creates.
tbh they didn't just buff player HP but also enemy damage. Now it is just player HP. That is quite a big difference.
Yep. Before they were just nerfing healers. If they're increasing player healthpools and NOT increasing enemy damage, then they're actually giving healers more time.
That is the main issue I had with the change in DF, if you buff player HP and damage done to players both with 25%, nothing changes when it comes to burst damage. Blizzard even said in the change notes that the change was made to threaten players with other things than bursty damage and one-shots. Ofc that did not pan out because that is not how math works. I don't understand how blizzard and tons of players supporting the change believed it would actually change the damage profile.
Now just buffing health without the damage part actually does change it, but I kinda wish they would just squish the health a bit and reduced the healing and damage done to players instead, which would do the exact same thing. I always found it silly when the numbers starts to scale in the millions, but eh.
I dream of a day where healing is more of a constant thing that is more like a throughput counterpart of DPS, and not this bursty mess we have today, but I am sure we'll end up where we are now again later in TWW as we always do.
im all for bigger health bars, less reaction healing, more mana management(recently that's been a joke) efficient vs i need to top everyone because scary moment coming or currently happening. then recover with efficient spells
the problem with one shots on tidral is that if someone screws up the mechanic they one-shot the whole raid... if they just died then who cares, but they kill everyone else, including the healers,... instead of instantly killing people or doing tons of damage, they should make mechanics that reduce your haste by 50% or reduce dmg done by 30%.. then the dps will avoid the mechanics for sure cause it affects their parse
This change makes sense for why they removed ret aura.
There has been no solutions given on the design of fights, so this is more of a "we're nerfing you so we can give other roles a semblance of a challenge, but we're actually not changing anything, the new 4 million HP bar will still get one shot on a 10+ for not pressing their stops or running into fire, hope you like the pugging experience nerds."
Everyone has to many defensives and everyone got to much self healing.
Wasn't the healthpools increased along with dmg done by mobs before? But this time it's without the dmg increase?
That's correct. Also they buffed self healing on 10.1. Just another lzen video with half research done.
@@dotftw1 hope this will help tho, looking to go healer main I think
@@Zkippe Hope so as well, they are really trying this time and l can already feel the difference on beta. Hope everything goes well for you on TTW. Good luck 🤞
Could you please start adding your sources in descriptions or comments? You reference so many interesting pages and sheets but never link them anywhere
Dps and tanks can make mistakes, but healers dont get any chances. They have to heal those others mistakes while also healing damage that is regularly coming out, all ontop of mechanics, do dps, and affixes. Im not 100% sure what the perfect fix is.
All skill baby. We get all the jobs because there isn’t enough rot damage imo.
I would be curious to see a reimagine of healers and damage patterns very similar to dps output, but in reverse.
Few of any dps has a 3 min button they press by itself to do a big 1 shot meteor ability. Instead most dps CDs are some way of buffing the output over 10-20 seconds.
Imagine if healing worked the same way. E.g. For the next 12 seconds your Prayer of Healing heals for 300% more.
The design bosses around rot damage, or staggered damage. Healer can plan their CDs for a boss or trash pack, and they can have a ramp and flow like dps do.
Would need to redesign most of the game, but yeah. Think that could be cool.
Healing could be in a better spot, but Blizzard also overestimates the average players ability to use their defensive kit decently. The huge damage intake is not supposed to be handled only by healers, which theoretically isnt a bad design choice.
In Dragonflight I played the first season (with Grievous affix), got the keystone achievement and uninstalled wow and its subscription. Not playing that kind of shit since then, especially after work.
I feel like it is so much invisible dmg in dungeons.. like where does it come from? Oh the group got half their hp cut, no cast, no frontal no nothing just a group wide slap! #Sneaky
I feel the same. I find this game so much more complex than it used to be, I don't understand how people keep focus and understand all the different mechanics.
I played healers since wotlk and gave up on season 2 DF, and it look like im not coming back now either
Non novum sub solem.
Since cataclysm they used the Hp bar strategy ...
The high ammount off defensives make healing so boring even not relevant .
Ngl I’m fine with this because I’m rolling paladin so choppy big heals will be way more impactful until you wanna run 3 restodruids
Blizzard can't design fights because different classes take different amounts of damage. Shaman and hunters fall over to passive damage in raids. Though mages and locks seem to live forever. The bottom line is that. Passive raid damage for locks is a one shot for hunters and shaman.
At this point whoever at Blizzard s in charge of the healer gamplay/Mechanics has no idea what hes doing and what is fun for healers, they need to replace him with someone who actually plays healers.
wish they would go back to healers actually having to heal tanks instead of just making tanks a healer too.. when tanks actually took damage healers had something to do outside burst windows, keeping the tank alive through regular hits.. now healers are just a poopy dps that heal through burst windows and hope the dps know how to use defensives or be blamed for sucking at healing
As I see it, Blizzard keeps moving defensive and healing power to tanks and DPS so they have to nerf healers. The healer nerf sucked the first two times and I am not giving them a third chance.
I rather be expected to use all my gcd on heal spells vs 3 gods for heals and fill in dps to meet the dps check
Twenty years of WoW and they can't balance damage or healing. No wonder they can't balance anything else.
They did a really good job in MoP but too many people whined about MoP HurDUR KuNg Fu PaNdAs, so they did WoD and since then screwing things up.
The answer to infinite scaling M+ has never been monster damage scaling; it’s always been some kind of healing dampening instead. Just like monster health increasing with key level means it takes dps longer to kill them, increasing healing dampening accomplishes the same thing for healing that monster damage scaling is “meant to” without eventually hitting one-shot key levels; it takes longer to top people off. Or if dampening is unpopular due to healing meter numbers, then increase player health at the same rate as monster damage with key level.
I agree but I think this with a stat like spirit or something mana related would be nice. Also I think the dampening might be a little tricky with Hots and shields
Healing dampening will break tanks though. Either Blood DK is the only Tank to stay alive because it has the highest self healing or it will be the absolute worst because it loses healing and has not the damage reduction capabilities e.g. prot war has.
@@felixW94 Agreed, it would take significant rework and balance for some classes/abilities. No arguement there. I think it is worth the investment long-term though. I think of it as technical debt, with the current design/philosophy it's easier to just maintain the status quo vs to actually fix the root problem, which is significant work. The current design is a nightmare to balance long-term and requires a ton of iteration and wasted constant time-investment. That said, the sooner we get to the root problem the sooner we can move on and continue down the correct long-term path. There is also option 2 which kinda just solves most issues. Player health scaling with monster damage is basically what they are "trying" to do each time they blanket-increase player health by X percent - so they are already "close" to understanding the problem, just not quite hitting the home run. Scaling player health with monster damage is effectively the same as "not scaling player health or monster damage and simply applying healing dampening" as far as healing impact is concerned. It can even simplify balancing/tuning/dungeon_design in a lot of ways. IE If a boss AOE ability should nuke a group to 10% health, then it will always do that, the only difference is can the healer top off those higher health pools before that next AOE goes out. Healer checks can then be truely about output, and difficulty of bosses can decrease the interval between those AOE's going off (as the boss fight goes on, if dps are not killing quick enough, the healer checks become more frequent and a strong healer can buy the dps more time to do their job poorly) just to name one example of opportunities for interesting mechanics and ways for good healers to contribute to the group vs bad ones (much like good tanks and good dps can contribute in their respective roles). Right now, healer checks aren't even about the healer, it's ironically about dps properly using their defensives, and the healer is either capabable of a key level or not (binary is not great). Good healers should be able to make up for short-comings of other players.
Healing in WoW raids boring and idk how it's been acceptable for near 20 years. Unless you like clicking through an excel spreadsheet during boss fights. What kind of new player wants to play a class where you click squares?
It's looking like a dog shit expansion to me the balance is terrible.
I'm going to say it ... Healer a true healer role is fighting your mana bar... You and you raid failed if you finish the raid without mana.
First!
IT IS A GROUP GAME IF ONE PERSON MESSES UP ON A HIGH KEY YALL DIE THAT IS HOW GROUP CONTENT WORKS.
You missed the point, this is about healer gameplay
@@SBqwerty you missed the point it's a group setting though, if you require 5 people to get through then the weight is on all 5 players. I like the situations like planning my teams cds for certin fights lize AV17 Where we need to use zephyer first then personals cause that means for the non one shots earlier I can't let them need them for the 4 pack pull earlier. So now the healing expectation is on me. They keep looking in m+ as it's encounter based but it's not it's one long encounter That needs to be counted out and played like a dance.
@@Poisonieer sure but that gameplay sucks and it shows in the numbers of healers that are leaving. There's ways to make cooldowns impactful without having the top people in a single global before they die
@@SBqwerty I don't know if that's the corolation though. And the part that confuses me is plenty of healers agree with me and there are alot that aren't. And the frustrating part is it dose always feel like the pug lords (god bless them) hate it but statisticly there are going to be keys that aren't pugable.
Making healing for 80 year olds with 3 second reaction times.