Can Season of Discovery Recover? | Asmongold Reacts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- by @Azamous • Can Season of Discover...
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the elitism and 20 year background check just to get into a raid is what made me quit.
That isn’t a thing? My guild has mix of veteran and new
I'm new. It's been fine so far. Found a great guild that helps me along. I'm the main tank.
Bro had one bad experience in a game he wasn't that interested in investing in to begin with and bases his argument around it
In other words, bro wants to get backpacked through content and doesn’t want anyone to get mad at him.
I've been playing since vanilla and I run into the same issue too. All the 'casual' guilds don't have enough people to make a raid team to have a chill experience, all the guilds that have enough people to raid have BS requirements despite topping charts in previous phases. P1 I was always top healer. Nope doesn't matter, need x amount of epic gear and do ridiculous farms for days on end, just so the braindead easy boss dies in 35 seconds instead of 50.
from season of discovery to Season of Recovery
so you're a trump supporter
@@42smash36 how did you know i am a fan of Trump from hearthstone?
Season of Relapse
Thank God someone said it
You win this comment section. Lol'd IRL.
World of Warcraft 2004-2006 was bottled lightning. It wasn't datamined before release. There was still secrets and a mysterious world to explore and adventure. We can never get it back.
100% correct and it makes me so sad.
it is up to us to not look at the datamined information
it wasn't mysterious to nerds at the time.. like Swifty with his phd level macros.. it's just that 99% of the players were normal people, not gamers.
This!
2 things that ruined gaming: money and the internet
Instead of classic plus we got retail minus.
p1 felt like classic+
I’m guessing you haven’t played retail in 15 years then.
@@CatDad09 fair enough
W take
It’s spelled “Ascension Lite”
The novelty was good, but they never recovered from mistakes and exploits, and the faster pace of the gear treadmill was crushing.
They leaned more into the RPG elements, which was great, but then tried to insert a similar raid treadmill type of endpoint to retail. They should've adjusted the game experience and the gearing.
It would've been amazing to have more legendary type of quests, guild quests, more focus on achievements that can be seen in cities.
Yeah I think at this point the damage has been done sadly. People that chose to do these incursions and make thousands of gold and skip so many levels theres no reason for new people to join if their going to be at a handicap. I wish they had kept a slow pace where you just hit the cap and go do professions and raid and pvp.
Going from 10 to 20 was difficult for our guild and once we had that many players we cleared it once or twice and people did not want to do Sunken Temple anymore as the drops were dogshit.
Season 1 was great, and season 2 quickly became such a problem that it immediately fell off for me and I haven't gone back. The exploits and mistakes really did kill it.
Tbh the gear treadmill has always been the worst part of wow; the fact that almost no content in the game is actually evergreen and used past it's own expansion was always going to be the downfall of wow
Trivializing leveling is the biggest mistake they will ever make. Majority of players just want a fun chill leveling experience, where progression feels meaningful and noticeable.
SoD is just an accelerated track to retail, it's classic but feels like retail and it is awful.
We wanted a Classic+ or at the least a classic what if, this is just retail.
Having experience boost always means they’re giving up on making Classic+ better. Experience boosts reveals the world is no longer the main character. The world should always be the main chapter because that’s what makes an mmo. Modern WoW is not an MMO, modern WoW is just an arena MOBA and a Mythic dungeon crawler, where the world is just a waiting lobby for the MOBA and dungeon crawler parts.
Also, Classic+ should never be “Seasonal”. Just being called “Seasonal” killed low level pvp.
Social leveling. Social adventure. Adventure gameplay that meaningfully connects you with other people. New person = new content. This is what it was about originally and what should be expanded upon and added depth to. Add encounters and overworld shenanigans and that unite people and have them talk to each other. Gameplay that brings adventurers together.
say who?
We level'd in 2004. we level'd again on every expac release. we level'd again on private server. we level'd again on WoW classic, we level again on hardcore wow.
Who said people wanted to go through the same "collect 10 boar asses" quest again in SOD?
guys theres nothing wrong with the xp buff nobody wants to grind the same dungeon spam
incursions are very retail oriented
what they needed to do is balance the quest rewards with respect to difficulty
because there are some quests that are particularly difficuly to achieve
The people here saying that the wow experience should be on experiencing the world have not understood the point, how do you level? through xp
If the xp takes forever and the pay off doesn't reflect well you see why warriors needed the scale up
Spoiler: *No.*
P1 was nuts, P2 was meh, P3 was bad and P4 just took far too long to come out.
Nuts ....? Come on now... It was level 25
@@rolandheinze7182it was awesome. Vibrant community. Questing/elite zones were packed, people were doing every dungeon for pre-bis, etc. My main gripe with S1 was it took way too long. Should have lasted 3 weeks max.
We're not talking about the level cap lol Get with the times bud. We like to play with everyone thats why it was nuts
Phase 1 was not good man, no new dungeons or questing zones as content and ashenvale event was done poorly
@@quetz6335 it was good because it added new abilities/passives, new quests, a new 10 person raid, new items, and everyone was doing all the content.
It was good because they had not yet ruined the Classic experience.
I'll admit that Mages and bots were out of control. Blizzard is just incompetent.
Season of discovering the Devs don't play the game.
Or have any clue what warcraft actually is
seasons dont fit into mmos if you ask me, makes it automaticly boring after a couple of weeks each release cuz your gear gets useless so fast.
It's always been seasonal even before they called them seasons. There were maybe 1 or 2 items that carried over to the next content patch. But the reality is 95% of your gear is and always was irrelevant when the next patch came out, whether they called it season 2 or patch 4.1 or whatever. It was always seasonal, and the few times where there were examples of things that weren't season, people generally hated at the time. It's just rose tinted goggles now, but nobody wanted to keep running Gruul's lair for their DST when they could be doing newer content.
@og_ktg seasonality has always existed in wow you are right, and it's the reason expansions get less and less appealing. Content shouldn't be thrown out each patch
SoD was awesome until they introduced incursions. That feature pretty much broke SoD and was directly responsible for me quitting.
Same. Immediately felt like retail. SoD's whole point was to not be like retail, but vanilla plus. Few changes for the betterment of game quality, but in spirit of classic WoW.
Cap
As a new player, incursions felt terrible. The most boring content but the most OP for gold/xp. Basically eliminated the entire world and it was all “no kill” spamming. Felt like a Roblox game.
Not to mention the people that played for the first 3 hours got 1k gold ish before it was nerfed
@@mw11plus exactly like half of my guild, while I was casually doing some quests and dungeons, they already basically skipped the whole phase in the first night, because of the buying power.
“Mages don’t heal” says the guy who used to suggest a mage that could heal by rewinding time. 💁🏼♂️
That would have been so fuckin cool
Alright, so I'm not taking crazy pills.
That's an amazing idea though lol, It's also not strictly "Healing" xD
I'd vote that the move would be similar to Lay on Hands for Paladin's, Long CD but a full heal, Or something similar :P Maybe it would just be an Iceblock-type ability, But you could use it on other people, Effectively a "Locking your ally in Stasis so they don't take dmg" kind of thing.
But yeah, It would have been cool as a concept for sure, Sad SoD didn't do anything similar to it lmao...
Killing GDKPs isn’t the reason SoD has floundered. Turtle WoW doesn’t have GDKP either and has grown. Even classic era servers have seen resurgence by organizing a “community fresh” run on a couple servers. The real reason SoD has suffered has a whole lot more to do with missing the spirit of classic
It sure as heck didn't help though. Banning gdkps instead of going after the bots and rmts just goes to show how incompetent or lazy it idiotic blizzard really is.
@@rudyrodriguez7301its a very low minority doing gdkp. I never heard someone quitting sod because gdkp is banned
being milked for 2-3months with a shit ST raid is what killed
@@MarcusPalle yes because they will go up to you and tell you they quit. Lol what kind of 5 year old thought process do you have. If you don't personally see it then it must not have happened.
@@MarcusPalle Well there we have it folks, since Marcus never heard of it - it doesn't exist.
Giga W take in saying turning wow into an Esport is killing it.
Wow should not be an Esport. Let it be braindead, easy and fun
No it can’t because blizzard had a chance to do classic plus and all they did was recreate Wrath play style, they didn’t take any gambles.
Blizzard is never going to make this mythical "Classic+", 1) it would take too much time and money to develop brand new content for two entirely different versions of the game, the best you get is what you get now, recycled reheated content with a new name. 2) no one agrees on what "Classic+" really is, the same way no one can agree on anything, from what casual means to even what regular classic means. Ask 100 people and you will probably get 100 different definitions.
@@Shiirow they might take the 20th anniversary as a reason to cancel sod and restart it as a non-seasonal with updates from their current experiences, like non-inflating emeral dream and stuff like that
@@Shiirowmc was designed in like a week
They need a race that can summon a roller coaster as an attack that would be great
Im shocked that streamer that is given thousands of gold per day thinks gdkp is a good idea. Totally shocked
Because it diminishes your own (unpaid) accomplishments and gear or lack thereof? Sounds about right, no? I'll wait :)
@@DemeterCirce wait on what? I'm living well. I have a home and land you would kill for. Believe it or not, everyone doesn't necessarily need to be a neet or a failure to point out hypocrisy
@@DemeterCirce I haven't played wow in 8 years, I should point that out. I have no skin in this game
@@pepeepupoo and yet you're still not explaining how anything he said is hypocrisy.. do you understand what that word means? He said he's both participated in GDKPs and doesn't see the problem with restricting them. What are we missing here?
Or rather you just don't agree with them despite not even having a vested interest nowadays because you're not actually affected by them?
As far as a home and land I would kill for? What does that have to do with anything? The implication is that because your name is on a deed of a parcel of land that you're validated in denouncing a form a voluntary form of raiding in a game you haven't played in almost a decade?
Yeah, I doubt I'm jealous of what you'd consider a valuable land and/or house. Unless you live off the bay in Miami Beach. KEK. But even then that's^ relative in terms of value proposition from a consumer standpoint. I'd suggest you move on.
@@pepeepupoo I don't think you know what hypocrisy means. Please look it up and tell us how the definition applies here.
These points are exactly why INITIALLY people said "no changes". Because people didnt trust Nu-Blizz to have any idea what made WOW good. SOD is proof that we were right to an extent. Of course there were things that needed improvement (like world buffs causing raid logging), and yes people really wanted classic+, but SOD is showing exactly why people initially said NO CHANGES. Because nu-blizz has no idea what makes a good game.
Actually even world buffs was part of emergent game play. Sure people raid logged once they had buffs, but they had to spend time organizing and getting them first. Others spent time fighting for raid entrances, setting up summoners/summoning spots, or went around PvP'ing trying to stop others from doing it. It also made the value of having a high level alt extremely important and potentially lucrative for services that aided buffing. The wars that happened in BRM, on the walls of AQ, or on the mushrooms around Naxx was some of the best times I've had in WoW.
After boons were introduced and people could buff safely with little effort that's when full time raid logging started and the activity in the world just dropped off a cliff.
now we have to put our trust in turtle wow to get the job done
Nightmare incursions were the beginning of the end. Mop remix was a confirmation of how bad the modern devs are at making "modern" content.
didnt even no people played retail what a joke lol looks like star wars lol
Beginning of the end for me was people cleaving from 25-40 by spamming dungeons. I didn't want to do that - the entire reason I was playing SoD was I liked being back to regular leveling. But then people were hitting 40 literally like 10x faster than me, then exploiting STV, and I felt completely left behind, and that made open world leveling / pvp awful. IDK what Blizzard was thinking.
@@David-zl2cs thats why the buffed questing, Incursions are gone now anyway
I still remember when DKP was tracked by one poor bastard in the guild who entered it onto a page on the guild's website 😜
I still play games that do this. And I like it.
I think the reason we have "seasons" is that Blizz doesn't wanna bring out a fresh vanilla classic+ persistent version while Classic [insert exp] is still going. When Cata dies down and IF there is no MoP, I think we will see a restart essentially of Classic within a year.
And, also GDKP simply had to go. In an ideal world it's fine, but in reality it was enabling botters and gold sellers to ruin the entire game. The gold is out there and it was creating an unbearable economy which has recovered a lot now.
It enabled botters? Bruv, wake up. How? You're telling me botting isn't a thing now in retail or SoD or classic? ... if so I'm not sure I believe you've even played in the last 10 years even. Just stop.
You're telling me RMTs don't happen ALL THE TIME on games that don't even have GDKP concepts? In that case I have some REALLY good timeshares to sell you. No for real. You'll thank me in just a few years time how much you're saving... 🤣
The economy in classic is ruined with WoW Tokens regardless.
I like seasons because it let the dev team actually revamp certain dungeons, otherwise we'd just rush for 60 and all of the "new" content would be end game focused. But if we're being honest, Blizzard probably went with seasons because it was the best way to milk the playerbase for as much money as possible.
Nothing in the economy has changed at all. Getting rid of gdkp was their way of not enforcing RMT.
The reason we have seasons is players engage more with fresh starts. The longer a server/mode lasts, the more the divide between existing and new players increased. Eventually people will take breaks and move on to other games and modes, and there's simply not enough new players joining to maintain the same level of population and interest.
The reason SoD P1 did so good and people had so much fun with it compared to P2 and P3 is, in big part, because it was fresh and new.
I feel that Blizzard needs to either make WoW 2, or totally revamp the game. Both Classic and Retail feel like they are throwing bandages on a cadaver while asking for more money for said corpse-bandages
botted comment and likes ICANT
Just nuke the site from orbit and make Warcraft 4. Everything and everyone is gone and we're starting totally fresh. Not "different timeline", not "different dimension", it's just all gone, except you have orcs and humans (and probably some other race, cause two is kinda too little now, no matter how big the two are).
@@CalciumChiefexactly. The game used to be so much fun when it felt tribal. Start over already!
been saying this for years. just set it thousands of years in the future or hell just completely redo EVERYTHING from the ground up because right now they are just polishing a turd
wow 2 makes no sense... It would just be the same people making the same mistakes. They'd have to prove they could get wow 1 back on track somehow first.
Season 3 killed the game
Looks like Classic, plays like retail, feels like retail, full of retail design mentality, and it's seasonal.
Nope, it's all incursions fault it was a silent killer
I was running a dungeon midnight the night P3 released and everyone dropped what they were doing to start incursions.
Nobody didn't do them.
You're in a raiding guild - if everyone is gonna be 50 by end of the week then by god you need to as well to maintain your slot....
It's just hilarious to me when people talk about incursions as if they we optional. If you were raiding in P2 and trying to enjoy content, you HAD to do this and like. There were no breaks lol
How was it silent lol. I Stanley ppl freaked out about them and still are to this day, you for example
Incursions literally made people be max level in a couple hours.
What are they then gonna do? We played casually and were leveling at normal speeds. Then one friend went and blasted through incursions to 50. Have barelylayed with him ever again.
@@narthvader6298 because I don't think the community realized it was going to have a connection with a huge drop in players.
@@Bonks332 I barely went to friendly in incursions. I mostly ignored them. ;-) And still was raiding in the second ID, no prob. But I also hated them, because of the easy-shortcut inflation and stuff. They would have been fine as dailies. I think whenever people are able to reach max level within only a day, the system is already broken. Should take at least 3 days or so on the fastest path possible. Even better if it takes a week, tbh. Is only good for everyone, streamers, Blizzard themselves, because content is not finished after day 3... people not just grinding princess for 10 weeks. imagine the European Championship finals would be after 5 days, how boring is that. What keeps people excited is non-cleared content, not super-fast and easy to finish content.
Incursions ruined SoD and this is without question. GDKPs were banned and SoD was still incredibly popular and thriving, it wasn't until the addition of incursions that people started leaving in droves. How blizzard thought incursions was ever a good idea just shows how distant from the classic playerbase they truly are.
Thousands of different stories about how people got to level 60 in classic. But in SoD it is the same one for almost everyone, spamming Incursions
They wasted all the momentum with the incursions. Leveling is easy, yet they added boring repetative grind for exp and gold instead of making more interesting runes and a new dungeon or raid. Also with how easy gold and leveling is this doesnt feel like classic, it feels like retail with classic dungeons and lichking/cata classes
Exactly this. The fact the dev team wants to rush you to endgame shows they don’t understand classic
I like the option of incursions but it could haven been handled differently. Phase 2 coming out and everyone just spamming Dungeons the same dungeons that’s been there for years it’s to boring. Atleast incursions presented a different option. I think more quest would have also worked
Incursions and the delay between phase 3 and 4 were their big mistakes. People complaning raids are too hard or 20 mans are too big as the reasons are brain dead
Exactly. I quit sod because of incursions and switched to era firemaw again.
Incursion are optional content.
I did only few quests there
And got my gold whit good old grinding and quess what its also boring and repentative😅
If u want more challenge as u said u can run quests and dungeons just like normaly
They broke it with emerald dream season. they should have known better.
Half assed it real bad, too. The emerald dream is dumb
I was so excited for Emerald Dream. I started that phase trying to level to 50 as fast i could by spamming as much quests and dungeons as possible. Then one of my guildmates hit 50 in like 3 hours. I thought he was cheating until he told me that you could spam Emerald Dream quests to 50... no one wanted to do dungeons or quest... no one. Everyone was either spamming Emerald Dream or PvPing. I quit soon after and never looked back. Blizzard is a bunch of clowns
@BXEmberz0109 ya same story man leveled as a healer pally. Could do it for over 18 years just picking up groups as I play. That wasn't there then. Done done
@@BXEmberz0109The opposite happened to me. I logged on the weekend after p3 dropped, before they nerfed the ashenvale loop, and was able to go from 42-49 in less than 4 hrs after i caught wind of the loops. Tbh the high from that was insane but after they nerfed it all the motivation I had for making alts disintegrated. 9/10 wow experience overall tho
@BXEmberz0109 ohno he leveled 2 hours quicker then you whatever will you do
People underestimate how much p2 killed the game. Everyone sat in SM, started to hate the leveling grind, then joined gnomer pugs that couldn't kill anything. The bad will, combined with p3 incursion meta was the kill shot.
YES. Clearly P2 was rushed and not executed (nor envisioned) nearly as well as those responsible (one of whom left blizzard in that not infamous 'teaser' posting), how shocking.
Blizzard just can't get TF out of it's own way.
Absolutely. S1 I spent most of the time out in the world and doing various dungeons for items. It was pretty great. I tried to do that in S2, but was massively out levelled by others who were spamming dungeon cleave. Yeah, questing isn't fun when you feel stupid / inefficient for doing it, especially on a pvp server.
In chess, pressure is what is holding the game together. Removing pressure often leads to the whole board falling, and either one player is now dominating or both players are going to draw. Removing pressure is seen as either a pro move, or a total noob trap. Making leveling easier was a noob trap.
They took it way too far. I know everyone had their ideas on what Classic + should be. I can't speak for everyone, but all I wanted was just minor adjustments to make more/all specs viable and MAYBE a new raid/dungeon or two. A lot of specs in classic coulda been made viable by increasing the debuff limit further or removing it all together, and fixing mana issues for specs like Ele sham and boomkin. We didn't need to bring in all these extra new abilities. Maybe one or two here and there where it makes sense. Besides that all I wanted were very small QOL changes such as dual spec.
SoD was never a classic+ that is what people wanted it to be. Seriously people must have short term memory or something. If you go check the first presentation on SoD you will see that SoD was a reinvention using classic WoW and not a classic +.
SoD has been a speedrun of the retailification of the original WoW except since it's happening a million times faster and with fewer resources, it's just scuffed. I look at SoD and I can't find what's supposed to appeal to me with it because it's lost most of what's appealing about classic while also not being as polished as retail, it's just this abortion in-between.
We wanted Classic + and got Retail -
"its not the customers job to know what they want" - Steve Jobs
How is swiping your cc for gold and buying gear more fair?
Ask those whale that support these kind of behaviour.If we say this isnt fair,they gonna reply back "you just poor".
How is making up things in your head to justify your dislike of GDKP's rational or sane?
@@outintheshop1763 I didn’t make up anything. People on Whitmane buy gold constantly and then run gdkps.
cause everyone can buy/farm gold. if your broke irl thats on you aswell.
@@rahjo7224 trash argument but ok
Its underrestimated how much it matters that classes play/feel different from each other. Classic was best at it. Classes could not do anything and so there was synergy between them
It can work. Just have people vote on updates like with OSRS.
🦀BLIZZARD WONT TAKE THIS ADVICE🦀
I wish they did this idk if they ever will tho
They need to follow the OSRS model…. Players vote on content and just make new tiers . Add raids dungeons 5-10-20 mans. Maybe even heroic. Balance the classes add arena and PvP modes. It’s so damn easy….
the biggest mistake was players thinking this shallow gimmick would lead to bigger things and calling it "Classic+".
What Bliz _should_ have done was take the game in a different direction than retail content-wise, much like RuneScape 3 and Oldschool RuneScape.
For example, a narrative path starting at a pivotal story point where the bad guys _actually win_ would open up an entire new world of story, setting and gameplay possibilities.
There was a sliver of hope that the SoD team would go the way of the osrs team and actually create a great game that keeps with the feel and style of the original, whilst also having new content that isn't just rehashing the retail content (e.g. most of the """new""" spells they added being just retail spells from years past)
I knew this shit was trash when I learned about druids getting windfury. People overdosing on copium for this crap.
blizzard will save SoD the day asmon gets to play ffxiv again
hard cope imo
He’s not playing that boring crap ever again
none of those will ever happen
Woah, that was apparently a sensitive topic judging by the replies
@@ninjaturtlesoup2769 At least it's a game by a competent dev that is enjoyed by its players. WoW is a game by an incompetent dev team that is hated by most of its players but the players have such a severe separation anxiety that they rather remain and try to justify why do they still play it.
Tbh GDKP was not the same it used to be back in the day. The constant gdkp spam was very very annoying and was just a ton of foreigners who didn’t speak English running them so they could take a big percent and sell the gold after for real money.
Well said. Unfortunately folks think that 2019+ GDKPs are the same :(
It was a huge mistake to try and create new specs instead of fixing existing specs, and then they clearly ran out of ideas after phase 1, gave up on new specs and just went the lazy route of adding in random retail abilities to classic
Simply put, they made too many mistakes and lacked effort. The team size for recycled content having to pushback deadlines so long for such small changes is offputting.
the waffle house on Tuesday afternoon has a bigger staff than this dev team
@@azorahigh3218 they have more devs than jagex and square enix so that's not really accurate they just are terribly inefficient
@@wyckedsyndicate lmao do they actually have a bigger team than osrs? that's honestly so embarrassing since osrs clears SoD and it's not even close
@@wyckedsyndicate you sure, I don't think there are a lot of devs dedicated to SOD. yeah maybe they get some help but how big is SOD team 5 or 6? seems like it
@@azorahigh3218 Just in their staff numbers they mentioned at the start of SoD and how many developers have been in their phase videos there's more than 6. They could be throwing around developer and engineer titles but realistically they still have dozens of strictly developers as we've seen over a dozen interacting with players.
Gotta be honest. Without Incursions and the removal of GDKPs I am 100% sure it would be alive and kicking now. Incursions did so much damage to the game it's insane. Classic doesn't need new ways to level up...
Asmon talking about gdkp...
Viewer: "put me into a discord call, you will lose this argument"
GL bro 😂
I was done after Phase 1. Too much hassle with not enough rewarding gameplay.
To many min max raid groups. That killed it for me. People asking my gear score etc.
@@Reippa
>plays mmo solo
>its the games fault that people are 80 iq hard capped
There are 0 SoD W's for PvP. Every decision made with SoD made pvp a little worse until I inevitably just quit. Got to just before P3 when the P3 leaks let me know it wouldn't be worth playing.
pvp as rogue has been fun
Crazy how all the problems Asmon has with WoW aren't issues with osrs
Bro I just got back into it and I’m ashamed of myself for leaving. Osrs has always been good and I should have stuck with what works.
Osrs will forever be a book judged by it's cover. It's objectively the only true modern MMORPG that provides a complete experience in every definition of the genre.
too bad osrs combat and gameplay isn't fun
@@quetz6335 it's certainly not a game for your average zoomer
Only problems with OSRS is that it runs like crap, plays like crap and looks like crap
I wish they would do another classic release like they did. I want to get back into it and do Vanilla -TBC - WotLK again. Hopefully I don’t need to wait long.
People shat on Asmon for thinking removing GDKP was a bad idea because it was a stupid take. Just because you believe you're right doesn't mean you are. Removing GDKP didn't destroy the game either.
"I WAS A RAID LEADER" lmao
My guild 100% died to 20 man raids. Other things contributed to speed it along, but pugging 8 braindead people for ST, banging our heads against a wall, and having someone leave after a wipe led to zero sense of progression and community
40 man raids are the best but only work when raids are easy.
Difficult version always needs smaller groups.
They should have a 5-10 man hard mode of each raid that rewards nothing except an achievement. Hard should not reward gear to make hard mode not required.
why did you guys think you could run a guild if you cant even get 20 people together? What was your plan with level 60 end game content like AQ40 / naxx?
@@seph_f I think you need to read his comment again.
@@seph_fwell u can get 30 other monkeys and still do the raid in no time thats the difference
@@Dathrix MC sure, not AQ40 and Naxx
GDKP is emergent gameplay ? More like IRL gameplay
Well... Yeah. You either play forever to be able to buy a single piece or just pay money to buy botted gold which inflates the economy. Inevitably the gdkp rewards botters and rmt. If blizzard would uphold their own tos gdkp would be great. But they don't.
@@hail9814 Totally agreeing with you if Blizzard was willing to do something, GDKP "could be" great !
I really like the mage healers and rogue tanks tbh. Those interesting combos have me more intrigued than thinking they are stupid - it's part of what has kept me interested in SoD.
WoW is designed to be played in a guild with a static group of people but at the same time caters to people that dont/wont do that. (loot distribution is the idea here. "bad players can get gear" so run with your guild so you dont have those people or eventually you get your stuff)
Mage healers make perfect sense actually. They don't really heal, they rewind time back to when your hp was higher. It's magic, mages use magic.
What a stupid idea 😂
turtlewow and ascension are what sod was intended to be, yet once again, the talent is not there at blizzard
yo asmon , i just started playing wow on classic cat , do you have any good tips or tricks i might be able to use to improve and try to fit in with the flock of experienced players ? currently i have a tank / healer / dps , so i can go ether way
OSRS handles the seasonal content issue via offering pretty sick cosmetics in the main game the better you do in their temporary gamemodes. It ties progression back to the main game without it feeling required to play.
I think focusing on endgame and not leveling is the single biggest reason SOD isn't more popular. Leveling in classic was such an awesome journey.
Having experience boost always means they’re giving up on making Classic+ better. Experience boosts reveals the world is no longer the main character. The world should always be the main chapter because that’s what makes an mmo. Modern WoW is not an MMO, modern WoW is just an arena MOBA and a Mythic dungeon crawler, where the world is just a waiting lobby for the MOBA and dungeon crawler parts.
Also, Classic+ should never be “Seasonal”. Just being called “Seasonal” killed low level pvp.
If they delete my SoD character I will never return to WoW again.
cope
A lie.
they said in an interview the charackters are going to a very cool and very interesting place. whatever that means and if it even means something
The recycle bin on the classic server's desktop isn't cool or interesting
@@DeeaA.-qu2bn what is that? Im not a native speaker
The reason people watched your videos is the same reason people read Tipsouts guides, you're the only people willing to put out the info we already knew. So like baking a cake is solved, but if you make a video or guide to bake a cake it doesn't make you the best cake maker...youre just the one putting that info out
We gotta stop letting people pretend like GDKP was a massively popular thing back in the day. It wasn't. Nobody did that shit in classic. I dont know a single person that actually did a GDKP run before ICC. After you geared, you did pvp, helped friends gear, and ROLLED ALTS. That's where people continued playing. It wasn't because of GDKP. It's such a lie pretending like most people just did GDKP in vanilla.
Problem with GDKP is and always will be gold buying/botting. And even if blizzard bans for it, it doesnt fix the frustration. If someone buys gold illegally or profession bots for a ton of gold and they win an item over me and then get banned 3 days later for their infraction, I dont give a fuck because I still don't get the item. It doesn't retroactively go to me. It's just gone forever. And the next time it drops, another gold buyer or botter takes it and the frustration cycle repeats.
Personally I don't care if GDKP is allowed or not allowed. But I do hate this narrative that it's what made people play the game back in the day. That's just a straight up lie.
100% correct , the good all days of helping guild members was the golden era only 1% is Asmon and his neckbeards
Streamer that gets hard free carried for millions of gold GDKP's and handed BiS items supports GDKP's.
BIG SURPRISE.
He really thinks people who do GDKP farm gold several hours everyday and not buy the gold with real money. I dont know what world he is in
@@MarcusPalle Even if they buy the gold it cost them something, and that something is ultimately time, whether time at work, or time playing the game. It's still a better system than a random roll.
And neither of you are making a substantive point. You're not explaining how the incentives are better for alternatives. So you have no real point. You're just grasping.
SoD was announced: "Oh, so it's an added spell/talent system you explore to find on top of classic? Sounds fun."
SoD was released: "Well, this is pretty cool."
SoD updated piece by piece: "I'll take a break, this is getting too messy and strangely grindy."
SoD current state: "Nah, looking at it feels like looking at retail - I don't get it. I'll wait for SoD 2 or something."
I quit SoD in first phase after wasting 30 minutes asking for a party to farm some material for skill rune. There was plenty of groups there but i was ignored like im hero character in "Six sense"
Blizz really had the oppourtunity to pull an osrs and have something be hugely successful, and they fumbled the bag tremendously
Anyone who says SoD is like retail hasn't played retail. Because it only takes about 30 minutes of logging into retail to tell they're only similar in the fact they are both called World of Warcraft.
I love that Mages can heal. When I play my mage in Cataclysm, I miss having healing and resurrection skills
Yesterday I was lvling a druid in turtle and the moment I completed the bear quest I felt so powerful and rewarded for my effort of doing the quest chain, that is the beauty of vanilla, you are progressing since level 1, you are progressing when you take a new flight path, when you level 10 points in the primary profession, when you get a new talent point, thats why sod is failing, it only cares about raiding, it forgot and neglected the leveling journey.
Mage healer and tank rogue is what made SOD cool. I liked all these new specs and cool spells and abilities.
Even after the nerfs people are still whining about how long and difficult ST is, most normal non-speed running guilds are clearing it in in well under an hour, 30-40 minutes in a lot of cases. It is an incredibly easy raid to clear, it isn't even TBC difficulty. Speed running guilds are clearing in 15-20 minutes. AQ was significantly harder than anything in SOD.
you mean the dungeon people spent years complaining about? the dungeon everyone seemed to hate until they eventually just cut it in half removing the convoluted up down up down portion.
@@Shiirow yea, they made ST more interesting and streamlined and people still complained.
@@Shiirow the ST raid and the classic version of the dungeon share almost zero similarities. The ST raid is fun and well made, the phase has just gone on way too long
02:20
retail is ALL seasonal servers. every expansion is just a season with a soft reset at the end.
The current classic team are just not as good as the Turtle devs. Blizz should just let the Turtle devs take over anything that's supposed to be Classic+ish
Blizz giving up on the bot fight is what made me 100% quit. In phase 1 when I couldnt even get a tag due to all the hunter bots. Said nope not for me anymore.
worst reason ever lol there were litteraly no bots xD your delusional if that was the reason for you to quit haha
@@daniellind7559 I distinctly remember trains of gnome/human mages with keyboard spam names running in a triangle around the westfall farm area with the gnolls and murlocs and just killing everything over and over. There were definitely bots.
@@daniellind7559
>provable evidence by simply logging in and checking
>somehow objective truth is delusional
>average american education
They are EVERYWHERE! Played since 2013 and my heart breaks every time I bite the bullet and see how much worse the bot problem is
This. Played s1 a lot. Bots where there but not a big problem on my server. Then they ban gdkp's instead of fixing any bot related problem so I quit playing the game.
I wish they had implemented loot lock per boss instead of raid lockouts. It sucked spending a few hours trying to get a raid going and then bouncing before the first boss if things looked sketchy because of the lockout
I think we need to stop saying "classic is easy, classic is hard" because it's just not true either way. It's easier in some places, like the ceiling of raids, and it's harder in others ways, like levelling takes a long time and pulling too many mobs can kill you more than in retail. Even then, even with the low ceiling of raids, because of stairs-like way raids are made and that you need people in AQ gear to do naxx, you need people in BWL gear to do AQ, only a very small minority of people stay through the weeks, lockdown after lockdown, to finally reach Naxx. Those people are dedicated, and I think the most dedication it takes to get there is simply having the patience to wait every single week for fucking raid lockdowns to reset. The real change that would make classic great, is removing raid lockdowns. All changes made by modern Blizzard to classic have lessened the experience, but this change would improve it. It would make degens run molten core every single day until their ready for AQ and then do AQ every single day and boom a LOT more people would be able to reach Naxx. And when I say a lot, I mean like maybe 10% instead of the current 2%.
Really the most gatekeeping feature of WoW is by far the weekly raid lockdown. That's the single reason why you have to "schedule" raids to accomodate normies who "have jobs" or "have families". Who the fuck wants to play a MMO to be able to raid once every week, having to be on time on a specific day just because people in your guild have lives like WTF is this BULLSHIT? Just let people farm the fucking raids over and over again like dungeons.
gdkp is so immersive. i love when the warrior goes into his wallet and pulls out his visa card of azeroth so he can buy gold and buy items not even on their bis list. I just get lost in the immersion.
Recover from what? People not playing a seasonal game mode 24/7 during down time? Do people always regress into mouth breathing apes every time a game is waiting for new content? Holy
I mean that is true for some players just waiting for p4, but a lot of people quit for good like myself. Unless there are radical changes, and more importantly new content, sod is dead to me.
Yea everyone I know that isn’t playing is due to lack of content/taking an intended break before new content drops.
Phase 1 of SoD is the closest feeling I've got to playing WoW back in 2005. Classic was great but I already knew everything about it.
All I ever wanted was Classic WoW but with 9 playable classes instead of only 4-5
31:20 "The WoW devs view the points of friction as something to be improved upon, but I think the points of friction in vanilla WoW give it the texture that makes it a timeless game". Truest true brother. Skyrocketing people to the endgame is the very antithesis of what made vanilla special and good. The reward of a long journey.
"This tank, is an ex-parrot"
the GDKP take is probably one of your worse takes asmon xD
While Asmon speaks to the bad things in SoD, Its worth mentioning what SoD did right:
1. SoD kept the same level pacing as Vanilla, with only the runes making progress quicker.
2. By reducing the class identity, it removed the meta gaming that occurs when people choose subpar specs.
3. By grouping SoD into level tiers, it created an end-game for each level tier. It created metas for each tier, and each player wanted to get BiS for their tier during the season. Rather a typically expansion when their is only one endgame, SoD had many spread out like typical patches.
4. Because the level cap was relatively easy to reach each season, it meant casual players joined end game activities quicker. It is daunting for casuals to level to 60 to join in the end game, but with level tiers it was more manageable in the timeframe of a season.
5. The runes made power gained feel good, and felt game breaking at times which made the character feel powerful.
They need to make a device that can remove Shadowlands from our memories first
Every class is overpowered vs. the leveling experience. Regular mobs weren't updated with new abilities as players did. The journey feels cheap, like Retail.
Could hear asmon speak about wow for hours, and I dont even play anymore
You can feel his passion for the game
For P1 and P2 I played on Penance (one of the smallest servers) and what killed the game was basing the first two phases around 10 mans then switching to 20 mans. It meant that most guilds built a 10 man raid team and didn't expand past that for the first two phases. It basically meant that guilds had to merge in P3 to survive.
The actual game was great, it just wasn't accessible to a large part of the community on Penance.
And then you have the ninja looters rolling and winning on gear that they don’t need
As long as people are playing and paying for a subscription, Blizzard has no incentive to create anything new. the business model of just recycling old content with very little creative effort is a goldmine. and blizzard will milk it to the very last drop.
World of Warcraft has always been a seasonal game though. They just didn't call it seasonal. Classic was seasonal because not all of the raids were out at release. Each raid release was basically a season...
So because even If a new RAID was released the previous stuff was still viable or even needed .
Today new Patch and you get ez catchup Gear almost on mythic or heroic lvl.
@@jacobscholtissek2410 A very select few pieces of gear were needed. When BWL came out back in the day I replaced my entire set with the T2 set. Maybe some trinkets were still viable but that's about it. It was basically a new season because you replaced 90% of your gear.
When entering a raid, it should scan your gearscore, if you have a high gear score it should give you an option to accept a quest and gives like 3k gold but opt you out of loot from that raid. When you kill the final boss just hand in the quest
I just wish that instead of adding experience boost modifiers and leveling path modifiers such as incursions…
They instead added easy rune/spell book catch up for all non current content runes.
no
yes
@@Bauernade no
Its not worse than Shadowlands so that's something at the very least
Its called Season of Discovery. Its not called Season of the same old boring shit that has been out for 20 years. It shouldnt take more than 1 or 2 wipes per boss the first time to learn the mechanics. They are still super easy. With DBM it might as well be a quick time event. Also SoD is nothing like retail. People who say this have never played retail a day in their lives. SoD keeps the spirit of classic gameplay and community building with some added spells. Its an experiment with new class choices that are for fun. If you dont like it just dont play it. Also bring back gdkp. Its way more fun and provides way more pugability. GDKP also provides everyone with extra gold for doing something they were gonna do anyways. It beats farming by a landslide.
I think people misunderstanding how an oxymoron works is my ultimate pet peeve...probably because I see it so much.
This is why private servers will defeat this pile of garbage everytime
anyone else doesnt find this type of humor/way of talking amusing? not funny even in its short form sarcastic way it was intended in, especially not in this where it actually conveys a longer, detailed and deeper message....very annoying actually
Couldn't agree more on Mage Healers/Rogue Tanks/Warlock Tanks being stupid. "Ever wondered what it would be like to be a Mage Healer?" No.
worst take ever.
sod was created with that reason in mind. that was the selling point and people applauded that. if you want to criticize them, do it on other implementations because that one doesn't make any sense.
@@gomesiano It just doesn't fit their class fantasy. I'm fine with them shifting the meta etc. but making a class like Mage into a healer or Rogue into a tank is absurd. I like new abilities and new metas--but designing classes in ways that are completely counterintuitive to their holistic class fantasy makes no sense. I get that this was blizzard's intent--and it was pretty dumb. It was not the selling point, the selling point was responding to a community of players who wanted Classic+.
@@Metabreakerz do i really need to say it again!? guess i do, it doesn't matter if it doesn't fit the class fantasy, that was the point of it.
@@Metabreakerz and regarding the classic+ you are completely wrong. they even said it wasn't classic+, it as a version of the game they wanted to test things. people were the ones that wanted sod to be classic +. go check the first presentation they did, this is all there.
@@gomesiano I must have been confused when aggrend repeatedly said he wanted to maintain class fantasy every single phase, my bad! Oh, and when Aggrend said "Classic, PLUS so much more, I guess that wasn't an admission of Classic+, I was just confused. Woofah! I must not have been paying attention!
The reason I quit SOD is that whatever progress I make has absolutely no connection to retail where I have worked hard to earn mounts, transmog, and achievements.
WoW Classic: Seasons of Retail
We need gdkp back, sod is so boring if your character is full geared and you have nothing to do. I also agree with mage healer rogue tank etc complete useless.
I was huge anti GDKP at the start but the point he brings up is great. I’m a fully geared healer and wouldn’t need to roll on any loot and I’d love to get gold to raid compared to switched to a dps spec and solo farming mobs by myself
Iirc, the devs did say in an early interview that our SoD characters will have a place to go after SoD ends. Maybe it's era. Maybe it's retail, maybe it is an actual Classic+ who knows