Death and the Afterlife, Part II - Fr. Jeremy Davis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- #death #afterlife #orthodoxchristian
Fr. Jeremy Davis is a priest/monk at St. Elijah Antiochian Orthodox Church in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. He gave this symposium on the subject of Death and the Afterlife. PDF handouts are available for download with each of the four talks.
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O How my aching soul is drawn to the Orthodox church! The home of a beautiful, timeless tradition. God bless you Fr Davis. May your prayers, O Blessed Father, remember me, a sinner.
This teaching is a great blessing.
I am learning about Orthodoxy, and enjoying these videos immensely. Thank you and bless you.
Have you come HOME yet ?
His analogy of the hand as part of us but not all of us, and the "it" in our prayer, is such a simple but helpful analogy for the soul.
Once again. Great information as I walk in m my Orthodox life.
Father Jeremy is such a good man. As a Roman Catholic, I found solace and comfort in his words because like most believing Christians, I still feel fear and terror of the transition of the moment of biological death. His Orthodox theology parallels most of my Roman Catholic theology. Fr. Jeremy said that Orthodox not believe in ghosts. The Roman Catholic Church has, limited acknowledgment, of human ghosts. That is, a departed human soul may obtain permission from the Lord to briefly appear to a living loved one or relative, asking for prayers or masses, but not engaging in conversation. Anything outside of that is probably deceptive and demonic. Catholic and Orthodox concur, dialogue between the living and departed is strictly prohibited. The test is the same. Does the human ghost or purported saint agree that Christ came in the flesh into this world, died on the cross for our salvation and was resurrected? If the spirit cannot agree or becomes angry it is demonic. Even Jesus Christ used the word, ghost, when admonishing a doubting Thomas. Am I ghost? Asked Jesus of Thomas
Have you come HOME yet?
10:49 Death is A Great Mystery, you’ll know when you experience it
11:39 From Death until Christ Comes Again
12:30 Body Ceases Functioning, Spirit Departs 14:13 Angels and Human Souls
16:24 Soul, a part but not the whole
18:07 Dormant, Laying there; carrying on
20:14 Worship, No Ghosts
21:57 Dream State, not fully real.
22:57 Intermediate State of The Soul
Death - Intermediate State - Resurrection
24:50 Joint act, credit and blame
27:46 Wise and Foolish Virgins 48:28 29:58
32:18 Final Reward
33:25 Fortaste 35:51 By Anticipation
Bad Servant - Afraid in his sleep
Good Servant - Rejoice in his sleep
38:15 Departed Souls know, and they joy or torment
39:39 No Torment Will Touch The Souls of The Righteous
41:20 The Righteous Pray For Us
43:30 More Perfect Union
46:24 Saints will appear to people in Visions
50:26 Concious Experience, aware not alive
51:05 Tormented in Hades, have to live with themselves
51:43 Fear of Coming Condemnation
52:54 Immediate Transition, No Ghosts
55:00 No Purgatory, No Toll House 56:47
55:33 Aware of each other,
Yes
Not those in Hades
1:01:59 _Indulgences_ (yet God cannot be bought off)
1:03:22 Soul cannot be apart from The Body
1:04:18 Temporary Punishment cannot earn a way into Heaven; does not fit with magnitude of Sin and Love
1:07:34 Some sense of time [speculated] which ends when The Dead are Raised
1:08:20 Genealogy of Purgatory
Roman Catholics - Human Justice
Legalistic Understanding
1:10:08 How St. Peter’s Basilica was built
1:10:07 Toll House
- Violates Immediate Transition
1:13:08 Defense Fund
19th Century Russian Purgatory
1:14:37 No Biblical Evidence, none
1:15:48 Someone forgery’d St Cyril
1. No Clear Evidence
2. Violates Soul/Body Requirement
3. Demons have no Right Judgement
1:17:33 Temptation before Death
1:19:25 It belongs at the point of death, not in the Afterlife
- Like Book of The Dead in Egypt, A Pagan Faith
1:20:57 Rich Man and Lazarus
The Boundaries are Sealed Completely by a Great Chasm
You are stuck with your story
1:23:27 Repentance is impossible in Death
1:24:25 The Soul after death is Unable To Change it’s character
1:25:23 Relationship after death, they’re still alive in memory and in spirit. We love them, they love us.
1:26:30 Continued Prayer
1:27:55 Same in kind, Different in degree
1:29:06 They pray for us, we pray for them
Grant Rest and Repose
Understanding Prayer for The Dead
1:30:18 Character at death is 🔒
1:31:41 Everything is in God’s Hands
1:32:32 “Were it possible, I would pray everyone out of hell.”
1:33:44 Humble with Honesty, “we don’t know where others are at.”
• wishful thinking blocks out that we don’t know
1:35:04 We don’t know almost anyones last moment in this life.
1:35:48 “Don’t twist God’s arm.” Pray to let God take care of what God wants. Entrust to Him.
1:37:27 Loves Everybody
Lets us be Free
Allows Free Choice to have True Effects
1:38:34 Benefit of Prayer
For Hades - Lessening of Torment
1:40:00 God existed before Time
God is eternally Present.
God can save people of The Past
1:42:35 Christ in Hades
1:43:57 How do we know?
We have parameters substantiated
Dogmatic
Room for filling gaps
Some speculations are more dependable than others
1:45:50 Make sure speculation is within the parameters
Violation of Dogmatic Principle is Ruled Out (Of Bounds)
1:10:51 Suicide 1:47:55 A Grave and Serious Sin
1:48:20 Killing Everybody, Killing The Whole World to escape, The Ultimate Despair, An front to God. Throwing Out Repentance. 1:50:43 Disorder, Biological component,
1:52:18 “So twisted and confused.”
It’s not a rational act, it’s a depression
1:54:25 Responsible for Free, Rational, Act
1:54:48 Euthanasia
1:55:53 Total Clarity? Immediate Recognition?
1:57:07 Judged by Adherence to Christ
1:58:15 Preached to the captives
2:00:00 Resurrection
Raised Orthodox and understood our goal was not to have Christ in our heart but to be in the heart of Christ--a communion of love. I never heard of the demons at the time of death, what a dark horrible concept. Never heard of that before. Kept vigil for my mother and brother, I prayed for their release from this echelon and to enter the higher spiritual echelon--into His Light. Let us depart in peace. I never considered demons and darkness--never considered it. Always a negative spin from the Orthodox Church, never fails. My mother and brother never heard of that, either. My mother squeezed my hand twice to say thank you for dying in her home then took her last breath, my brother smiled to be free from pain. That is what happened at their time of death. Their faces were relaxed and as though they had smiles on their faces, no grimaces, nothing but pure contentment. Always a negative thrown in there from our religion! Glad we didn't know that concept. We are tempted and influenced all our mortal lives, at the time of death, we deserve some spiritual comfort from beyond. Always a negative Orthodox spin to everything we experience. I love the religion but I do have a criticism about it also.
Pretty sure he said there may be a demon, not that all experience it on their deathbed. My mother, Orthodox, on her deathbed said that her pre-deceased husband, Orthodox, came to her and assured her all was okay (How is it? It is okay.).
Your relatives were evidently holy people, and you were praying for them. They were protected from any demons. I worked with dying patients for many years, and sadly a lot of deaths are not at all as you describe. Memory eternal for your relatives.
Not sure how people who see a Saint who's departed this life decades ago are just having a vision. What about St. Spyridon from Greece? His slippers wear out and have to be replaced ever so often because of his walking around the monastery where he is buried, to help people.
1 Corinthians 3:12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.
I listened for an hour waiting patiently to understand toll houses just to finally hear you say you refute it. LOL.
My priest doesn't say "toll houses, he says "some sort of purgation for those sins not repented for 40 days". All I know is I am desperately wicked and trying to repent and its not easy. Peace be apon you father!
Christ has ascended!
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you! 😇🙏
4:59. 11:35. 13:56
14:58. 18:07. 25:06
27:20. 35:41. 36:31
49:53. 51:52. 1:31:30
1:33:30. 1:37:26. 1:38:19
if the sou is not judged (ultimately) apart from the body, why then are there distinctions in destinations for the "wicked/sinners" and "righteous/saints" (this implies an identity given post death and pre final judgement to determine the intermediary destination of a soul). Are there two judgements?
@Ancient_faith_ministry great presentation... Just wondering if the presentation material (printed) is also available?
Father Jeremy, would you consider publishing a book on this subject of Death and the Afterlife?
The lady's answer to time-stamp 21 minutes is there is no time in space between Heaven and the church service. Angels and those that have become Saints such as the Virgin Mary or actually at the church serving and worshipping in the church liturgy. Likewise the Eucharist and bread and wine or filled with the Holy Spirit and the bread and the wine or the Holy Eucharist into the literal blood and body of Jesus. The full congregation of worshippers all in unison all at the same time and location praying to God. The church is a communion between the living on Earth and those that have passed away that are of course alive in heaven for God is the god of the Living not of the Dead.
Father Jeremy's description of Catholic Purgatory is largely accurate but his stated reasons are not exactly aligned. In Catholicism, Purgatory is an expression of God's mercy and compassion. Purgatory is meant to cleanse the human soul of any remaining vestiges of venal sin and thus prepare it for it's glorious entry into Heaven. Keep in mind that everyone entering Purgatory goes to Heaven. Purgatory is not meant to be a place of despair nor suffering. You WILL go to Heaven. Orthodox and Catholic agree, God is compassionate, merciful, forgiving, and desires all those who die in His friendship come straight to him. Orthodox and Catholic theology agree, once a person dies, it is too late for prayers and penance. No soul can enter Heaven without being totally cleansed of all stain of sin. God forgives the living repentant sinner of all transgressions and will admit him or her into Heaven. God still enforces His Justice and for every penny you owe God you will repay it. In the Scriptures it is written, "Even the just man sins seven times a day." Trying to enter Heaven with residual taint of sin will make you feel like you are on fire. The imperfectly cleansed cannot enter the perfection of Heaven. As said, do not despair. If you're in Purgatory it means you are next bound for Heaven, once your cleansing in the fires of Purgatory are done. Does that sound painful? Fr. Jeremy is correct. God is compassionate, not vindictive. Your soul is bereft of it's physical body in Purgatory. How can a spirit feel physical pain? It can't. Fr. Jeremy said that it is unfair for the soul to bear all punishment and not the body. But the body is punished. The body ages and becomes decrepit, which was not intended by the Lord for Adam and Eve. Our bodies age, become decrepit then worthless and suffers the inevitable punishment of death and decomposition in the earth. The soul survives to undergo its full cleansing then transition to somewhere, someplace of a waiting Paradise until the time of ressurection when the new, perfected, immortal body will be reunited with the soul in the Paradise of Heaven's Afterlife. Orthodox and Catholicism agree. Human afterlife in Paradise or Heaven, whatever you wish to call it, is an afterlife of living body and soul just as God intended all along. We humans were never intended to be disembodied souls existing for eternity. Humans don't become angels after death, although that misbelief is oddly comforting to many misinformed Christians since it appears to be a clear-cut, easy to envision guarantee of an afterlife.
Can you please upload the notes here. I really want read the notes and would really appreciate if you can send me or post them here. Thank you
How do we justify all of the clear manifestation of the teaching of toll houses from St John's ladder, or even as far back as St Antony.
But my question is this:
Why does God resurrect everyone, even against their own will?
What if one does not wish to participate in creation/existence, not just heaven?
Isn't that the use of force?
I believe Fr George said sometimes the soul, when it dies, may linger for a few days before it goes on this journey to Hades and then hopefully to paradise (not the same as heaven) with Christ. He stated that the soul can be attached to the world due to a man's sinful desires or not being able to leave until they are ready to accept that God has forgiven them thus; requiring our prayers to help. Even though their does seem to be a conflict of ideas here, i believe Fr George did specify that even though this has been reported we shouldn't understand the soul as a ghost in the platonic sense.. The conflict then is in how we would describe that lingering without using platonic or ghostly adjectives, as not to give the impression that soul is fully intact and has a human experience as fr Jeremy highlights.
Fr Goerge didn't say the transition of the soul was necessarily immediate and highlights how relics are attached to the soul in some way contrary to fr Jeremy understanding... The two men should have a debate over their ideas that would be good.
I believe St Anthony the great spoke about how he was lifted up and demons tried to prevent him... That's why I do believe in a journey
I think both are true, some immediately go some take a journey
As a Roman Catholic I see that your view of individual judgement is different than ours- RC believes we are judged immediately upon death and then again at last judgment- your belief does make more scriptural sense although there is sort of a "judgement " in hades or paradise
Mary Magnan
you are both wrong see the First Council of nicaea 327 AD...
It would be heretical to suggest that the story about King Saul and the witch of Endor is an allegory. It opens the door to throwing out much of Old Testament history. There is no evidence it is allegory. only theological bias. Note: he didn't say it was allegory, he just suggested the possibility of allegory.
What is the Greek Orthodox stance and view on Euthanasia?
Captions would be majorly appreciated for the deaf and hard of hearing
Thank you for this suggestion. We will try our best to get some closed captioning up soon.
@@AncientFaithMinistries ❤️❤️❤️Thank you‼️
Why you didn't on the subtitles ? There are people whom need to read ....
To answer the lady at stamp time 51 minutes. When you leave your body and go to the other side you are 1000% Alert in every way mentally. You have complete Clarity of your situation. Your spiritual body is 100% the same shape how's your physical body. It is likened to pouring liquid into a bottle the liquid takes the shape of the bottle. Think of it as your physical body being a mole and the liquid into the mole became the same shape with legs arms a torso ahead ears eyes Etc. Since we still have full awareness mentally after we leave the body we are fully capable of sinning and unfortunately due to Habit we will repeat those same actions whether it be Love In Paradise or sin and Hades that we made habits and practices here while we were alive still in our physical human bodies.
When Jesus appeared to the disciples, for the first time after his resurrection, Jesus ate a piece of fish because he did not want the disciples to think that he was a ghost. Why would Jesus have made this statement, if ghosts do not exist.
sorry I am not good at quoting the bible. Amen.
The Roman Catholic Church does not attempt a physical description of Purgatory because it doesn't have that information. There seems to be some indication, derived from accounts of departed souls allowed by God to briefly speak to the living that is a sense of time and it is greatly accelerated in Purgatory. What seems to be weeks passing in Purgatory turns out to be days on Earth. A canonized female saint claimed that the archangel Gabriel took her on a guided tour of Purgatory. The Roman Catholic Church neither rejects nor accepts her account. You are free to believe or not. She stated there are three levels in Purgatory. The first is small in terms of souls there and these were once very good, saintly people living on Earth. They spend the least time in Purgatory. Their suffering issue j that of, longing. They can see Heaven not far from them but they have yet to wait out their allotted time in Purgatory. The second level is where the majority of good souls go after death. Time spent there is longer, can be very long depending upon the individual. The third level is the scary place since it is reminiscent of what helll might look like, dark and foreboding. Souls in the third level escaped damnation by some miracle or blessed intercession. Either way, souls in the third level escaped hell by a hair's breadth. Only the knowledge that ultimately they will be in Heaven prevents their total despair because souls in the third level can expect incarceration for very long times for example, longer than a century
Why tô pray tô death people If there can't be any change in the state of soul after death?
If there is no way that prayer can help the souls gain Paradise or Heaven, why pray for their souls?.
3zela3 I don’t think this particular priest realises how many stories there are of people attaining paradise through the prayers of holy men and women.
Our prayers help the departed wherever they are. There are degrees of what is experienced in Hades. Our prayers can make it better for those in Hades. That is what I heard him say.
Also, it is kabbalistic to allegorize the Old Testament, when it is clearly historical. The Kabbalists allegorize the Old Testament. And why is the thief on the cross called a saint? There is no evidence that he achieved Orthodox theosis in just a few minutes. He was a repentant sinner who looked to Jesus for mercy, like all of us.
I thought the soul resurrects after 3 days of death just like Christ then we are judged
Judgement day is 1 day for everyone
Why would u pray for the dead love ones than....sorry we can help them if they are not in heaven but purgatory. we can.....but u say u can't or won't because u do not believe in purgatory , we pray because we love them .....why, ?
Good point, it reminds me of building a house for a loved one who has died. Noble but pointless. If you pray for the dead, it must be for some reason.
Can you point to the scripture that supports the belief that man is both body and soul?
Ecclesiastes 12:7King James Version (KJV)
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Matthew 10:28King James Version (KJV)
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
God Bless us Sinners..
Mt 10:28 and 1thess5:23.
Mateus 12:32 ►
Versos Paralelos
Bíblia King James Atualizada
Qualquer pessoa que disser uma palavra contra o Filho do homem, isso lhe será perdoado; porém, se alguém falar contra o Espírito Santo, não lhe será isso perdoado, nem nesta época, nem no tempo futuro.
João Ferreira de Almeida Atualizada
Se alguém disser alguma palavra contra o Filho do homem, isso lhe será perdoado; mas se alguém falar contra o Espírito Santo, não lhe será perdoado, nem neste mundo, nem no vindouro.
King James Bible
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
English Revised Version
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come.
iT INTERESTING U DO NOT READ mCABEES , BECAUSE THAT WOULD RAISE MORE QUESTIONS I DOUBT U CAN ANSWE SATISFACTORILY . it is a wholesome thing to pray for the dead so that they may be tossed from there sins (sorry I can't spell or remember the exact words but u know my point, losses from there sins ....the dead????? I was listening to u to see what the Orthodox teaching is on death....but u have had to phoo photo every scripture into figurative..or non literal , this day u shall be with me in paradise , wow, even Jesus own words, and spirits or soul of the dead , visions, are not really real....hm! Sorry they are very real, and are in a real place, and at time even Tobit, who met the Archangel Gabriel or Rafiel could manifest a body , even though he does not have one....Jesus has a body, but it can do what angle can do or go, only they have no bodies ,Jesus had his resurrected real body of flesh...and what the CC teaches is if we say a rosary ,or walk the way of the cross ...the station of the cross or virtually any prayer we say for our dead , they benefit most certainly...I do agree however St PETERS was largely built by the selling of indulgences, but I also believe indulgences are real...if not abused, and the times the Church are not times to mean 1000 days are given to the soul who says this prayer, time off from purgatory, it relates to something else I forget, and too lays to look it up for u . Yes u can change if there is a purgatory which your not telling them and which Macabees is saying ,It is a wholesome thing to pray for the dead the they might be lose from there sins!!!!! again u have to do violence to the scriptures to force your idea, on the faithful....of course we can't change if they are in heaven or hades....but then where is those should who Maccabees collecting money for and praying for the theses dead may be closed from thier sins?????I am sorry your doctrine here is really poor of the and twist out of proportion scripture to maintain your false doctrine . Pleas forgive me Father, I am most certain your sincere, ish...but sincerely wrong on some of your points.
Yes we have hundreds maybe thousands of stories and even physical evidence of people in purgatory being permitted to ask a saint or there fellow religious prayer, n fact , many times these should leave physical evidence, there is a Church who one priest had collected such evidence, and is now , still in that church , (U can find it on TH-cam even now, in fact I watched not more then a month or two ago....I read books of many of these stories , and even Padre Pio , had numerous should come to him for prayers. Now I have heard from an an American sister Orthodox , formally. a Catholic novice Franciscan ...unfortunately during the time just after Vat 2, when thousands of religious and religious orders , want crazy in there claim to freedom....so she flees, she was living not far from where I live here in Netherlands, in a 6 or 7 small house of Orthodox nuns, where I stayed, she told me many of Orthodox priest thought ST. FRANCIS, AND Padre Pio , were under diabolical influence.....I could hardly believe what I heard....one denied of TRUTH leads to many more errors . Padre Pio, was a Saint period. Hands down did miracles no one can even count there number...yes I even heard from that sister, that these misguided Orthodox priest and monks, even dare claim such works and miracles Padre Pio did and still does....are from the devil.....what a stupid idiotic, conclusion...here is why say that....since when can a demon or Satan ,himself can do a real miracle....he cannot, he is 100 % evil, he could nor would ever cure any organic desease, nor does he have any power to deceive us by these means .All he can do is deceive , he can manually mess with someone's mind, who one way or other pen there mind to him , or by Gods will allowed to inflict some SAINT but he has zero power zero will, to cure anyone from organic diseases., as Padre Pio vast majority of miracles are....that imformation should prove those Orthodox Priest and religious they are dead wrong ....but will it, then prove the devil has any such power to heal organic diseases....u can't
I really enjoyed listening to Fr. Jeremy's preaching, but i will not believe that prayers of the departed are possible, or that you can pray for the dead!
Well, how can one pray for the people in some other country? They are somewhere else, how can one pray for them?
What is prayer but communion with God, casting upon Him what our hearts care about? And what is death but communion with God. Not only do I think prayer after death is possible, prayer after death IS salvation! When we pray we are practicing what we will do in heaven! :)
You are praying for God's grace and mercy. That doesn't stop at death.
How is it God gets away with murder, by making all people die? He may have given Christ for the intercession, but the fact is all humans do die, and suffer, by the hand of God. Why do we look at it as God's Will instead of itself being a sin committed by God? So in fact it is humanity who forgives God, instead of God forgiving humanity. Am I insane yet?
What talking you ........
Christ doesn't intercede with God. Christ is God. And Christ is our Savior. Hope you have more clarity than you had 3 years ago.
He doesnt make all people die, by sinning we have chosen death Basically. Bible basics. I wonder what you would say to your past self now that its been 4 years? @Dom Jermano
You know, if you just preached the word people might actually get it. Then again, you're constantly interjecting your false tradition.
Whose interpretation should he preach? You follow a tradition whether you realize it or not.
Toll houses have zero , to do with Catholicism this is all your bs...its pagan in origin , Tibetan , buddism, and even Egypt...long before , do not blame Catholicism it is in none of Catholic history ,its all your errors , even till the 70 WHEN sARIFIM rose wrote about it..
God forgive me but it’s totally confused explanation