This is a great thing for me. We have maxed out our grid connected solar with 20kw of solar panels connected to a 15kw 3 phase grid connected inverter. We can't legally connect any more solar to the grid. We can get very cheap used solar panels and I currently have about 15kw of used solar panels ready to install on our shed. I like the idea of using these panels to charge our car during the day.
Hi I’m interested in what country your from. Here in the Uk we are restricted to 16amps or about 3.6 KW per phase without permission. Personally I’m from the side that thinks it’s sometimes better to ask forgiveness rather than permission 😀
@@ratscabies8458 I'm in Australia. Where I am located we are allowed to export 5kw/h peak per phase. So 15kw/h across 3 phases. Approval for this needed to be done prior to installation. We have 20kw of solar panels but grid export is limited to 15kw/h. The extra 5kw of panels helps make up for inefficiencies and increases the shoulder of the power production curve. Eg more power earlier and later in the day.
@@MrCountrycuz Politics, Same here in California, the electric company says how much you can produce and politicians let them. I have a 17.5kw system because that's all they allowed me to have based on my usage. I will almost certainly need more in the future when I get another EV but they don't care.
Good fit for a DC only solar system: PV and/or wind turbine > DC charge controller > DC battery > and the new DC bidirectional charger. Downside, very few ppl use such DC only system.
Not quite. Imagine you had a few solar panels stowed on your vehicle and a small MPPT charge controller. Now, imagine your built-in charger was a DC-DC boost converter. Your charge controller would take the power that you place on your roof rack while you're parked at work or the mall and would sent 58.6 volts to the converter and that would, in turn, boost it to the voltage needed to charge your car. It might give you a mere 10 miles per day for your efforts but this would be more efficient than the system described here. When you park under your carport or garage, you can connect your charge controller to the solar panel array on that roof for fast charging. The combination of charge controller and boost converter would probably weigh less than the existing charge management hardware. I'm just presuming about the weight difference. The efficiency is a no-brainer though. The most complicated part of the system would be those components that take the amperage output down to the battery's recommended levels gradually as the batteries reach the voltage of the converter's output and then cut the charging off when they reach the level of fullness that you set. This is necessary to prevent premature battery cell failure. Anyway, the absolute most efficient isn't the same as the most efficient that is currently offered. Each method will use some amount of the power in the process of charging. The fancier it seems, the more likely that its wasting more than the most simple option.
I need to do more research on this because if it works in the way I hope it does the applications will be *huge* and I've never been given a satisfactory reason as to why a direct DC Solar PV to DC EV Battery charger does not exist. The car and PV generator/charger will clearly need to communicate State of Charge and a number of other parameters just like any EV DC charger already does, and vary that on a second-by-second basis, but I've never understood why this is any different to charging any DC battery from Solar PV. If this charger does *not* require a grid frequency to operate then completely off-grid Solar EV charging stations can be deployed anywhere completely independent of grid power. For Australia in particular this could be profound, with everyone from farmers to EV 4X4s doing the Gunbarrel highway and knowing they can pull up to an off-grid array in the middle of nowhere and recharge as long as there's enough Solar. I personally would love to have a second Solar PV system on my roof just to charge the cars from Solar PV, completely independent of the existing Solar PV system or the grid. As long as it conforms to AU/NZ wiring standards and doesn't touch the grid and is safe with nothing connected to it, then that opens up the possibility of using all the remaining spare roof space I'm not allowed to put panels on without losing my Feed In Tariff. Very interesting, thanks mate, keep it coming and sending love to you and your wife for her recovery.
I would think about it this way: You can't just use the DC generated by the panels on your house to charge your car. You have to regulate the voltage. To do this most effectively, DC is converted using transistors switching at high speed to create high frequency AC that then passes through a filter to provide DC again at the right voltage. Modern switching inverters work roughly the same way, but the transistors switch at high frequency with different width of pulses to approximate 60 Hz and then go through a filter to provide AC. Essentially, it is a very similar process with roughly the same efficiency, just one outputs AC and the other DC. If providing a storage battery, DC from panels goes through a regulator to provide DC at the right voltage to charge the storage battery then through another regulator again to charge the car battery (two voltage conversions). If you went from DC panels to AC line voltage back to DC to charge the car, also 2 conversions and roughly the same losses. The only way you can reduce the losses is to cut out one of the conversions.
@@larryevans6739 You're working with a false premise. You can do (and do do) DC to DC conversion with no AC stage. Buck, Boost, and Buck/Boost DC-DC converters work this way. The energy is stored in an inductor. By using very high frequency switching they can use small inductors. But the current is always going in the same direction... i.e. DC. The voltage across the inductor is adjusted by adjusting the current (amps = coulombs per second) through it to make up the required difference in input and output voltage.
@@toddmarshall7573 It is not a false premise, as I said "most effectively". The type of voltage regulator you are describing tends to be less efficient in these types of high amperage applications than a PWM-based converter. If you want to lose more energy just to not have to go to AC for some odd reason, then yes it does not need to have an AC stage.
My future portable tiny house will be a off grid 48V DC house with solar and battery storage. It will still a have an efficient DC to AC inverter for those few appliances that *must* have AC. Luckily most low power appliances run on DC already, and can be converted to use USB-C cables (up to 240W 48V with current standard and will problably updated with more watts in the future) directly instead of all those inefficient AC to DC adapters. Eliminating AC adapters saves two unnecessary conversions, first from DC to AC (solar/battery to AC adapter input) and then back from AC to DC to the appliance.
Think this makes more sense if you have battery storage at home... DC-DC from that battery to your charger. But either way you need either a very large solar system and/or a very large battery storage system. Going to be a niche product for general consumers. The place were we will probably see this a lot is in those DC chargers that have battery storage to offset peak usage charges.
That's why they added unnecessary steps and titles to make it seem like it is the first of something needed when, in reality, it is likely less desirable than the one you're talking about.
Though not mentioned in the vid, a whole-house system of charging the EV if it is home, then divert the PV electricity to power one's water heater, and lastly to heating one's space, all from the same PV array. That is what I am running right now-- sans the EV charger part. The DC slow charger is next. The company in the vid is probably not brave enough to provide such a whole-house solution.
The dcbel R16 (Canadian) also does direct solar. But yeah, it doesn't seem like you would get that much better efficiency than the DC-AC-DC. The DC to DC chargers ( such as this) would require a boost converter and controller which is essentially the same thing. It would be nice if there were a simple low power DC2DC controller which would boost your solar voltage to your car's battery charging voltage and take care of the CCS DC fast charge comms. Batteries are the most expensive part of a solar setup as is the red tape of installation/grid tie. 5kW of panels and a off grid charger would be do most people's commutes (then some) in moderately sunny places. Bidirectional would be sweet but I don't see how ev manufactures are incentivized to provide this feature, It's not in their interest.
It's obviously in their interest to sell more cars, so if someone wants a solar system and can't afford enough batteries, then buying a bidirectional car will be an incredibly attractive option. I know someone who is keen to do this. Me!
The dcbel unit is extremely versatile and capable, and is much, much more than just a charger. It's DC to DC functions can move current from wherever to anywhere you want, never doing any conversions. I am looking forward to it's deployment any day now. It's expensive, but it's a beast and should make solar/battery/EV/grid management a breeze.
@tweebs1 It might be possible for EV manufacturers to eliminate the onboard A/C slow chargers and rely on land based chargers like these and land based A/C chargers.That would save them $, space and weight.
Love the channel. Something similar might already exist as "CHArge de MOve" the first and second generation of chargers except for solar integration. I wonder if you could apply a home power bank to that system.
Efficiency is the reason to go this route and for any homeowner, the topic of faster charging shouldn't even be in mind because that's not what this is about and not many people are going to have huge solar systems on their house like i do. What matters most about DC to DC for a home is that the controller can charge your car with all excess power that has been generated and your car is going to act as an additional battery to your system that will probably be prioritized until the car reaches the desired charging level. So this home charger will hopefully be able to work with the MPPT of the inverter system to make sure it only draws the remaining DC power from the PV system after the power requirements for the home are supplied. This eliminates the guesswork as to how many amps your car can charge based on where the sun is for the day. A PV system inverter should be about 97% efficient minimum. I believe Tesla claimed their onboard AC to DC converter is around 92% efficient. So with that in mind, your solar system is losing about 10% of its energy when charging your car going from DC to AC and back to DC. In fact, a lot of things in your home are suffering these efficiency losses and i hope that as homes start to pack on solar power that we'll consider wiring up our equipment to operate right of our DC power rather than go through the inverter. With some new wiring, the LEDs in your home could use the DC straight from your solar system. And it's entirely possible for companies to start supplying DC powered refrigerators and freezers. Our gadgets could obviously skip the inverter although their power needs are really low so you'd only find benefits to that if you're doing wiring for a new house. Charging blocks for phones are pretty inefficient though unless you buy a good one so keep that in mind!
This is exactly why my EV conversions are 96-volt for my city car and 144-volt for my short-range backroad highway car. Each voltage is divisible by 48 and each has contactors that do just that. The contactors are manual rather than electrical due to the need to stay as inexpensive and DIY-friendly as possible. While the battery banks are divided into 48-volt batteries, they charge from my carport and ground-mount solar arrays and my off-grid inverter/charge controller. I don't charge to full capacity of 59.2 per battery but 56.8 instead. My conversions are RWD kits from Alibaba suppliers and are somewhat inefficient but they get the job done. I couldn't afford to deal with DC-AC-DC conversion losses or I'd have to charge every 3 days. As it is, I have to charge about every 4 days if I drive the same car every day. My capacities aren't all that large and my performance is low but so has the cost been and so will it remain. The automotive industry doesn't want you to have it easy or they'd place a 48 to (car's nominal) boost converter where your existing AC to DC converter is. I'm obviously not a follower or an inside-the-box thinker and neither should anyone else be if they like having what they need with much less monetary investment. Of course, people are all about instant gratification and I'm no exception. This is why my next EV will not be a ICE to electric conversion but rather an electric to electric. The fun is in making something that can do the job into something that does it right.
I look at all these comments and can't help but feel sorry that I'm so much more interested in learning about these technologies than the average potential adopter. Trust is not the most valuable trait you can have. At least not for you. It is for those who would take advantage of you. No business is going to make something that doesn't take advantage of some common disadvantage you have when compared to them. That's why you may want to come up with your own solutions. Even the solar power industry tries to get over on you with disconnects and combiner boxes because they know that you won't think for yourself if you can be tricked into believing that they did the thinking that you might have chosen not to. Not everything we are offered is as beneficial as it is touted to be. Good luck with the methods you choose. I hope they are better for you than having not chosen them.
Do we think small load DC in the home will take off as affordable battery storage becomes available? Lighting circuits will probably benefit from this & we have stacks of DC devices currently connected to AC transformers.
Couldn't help but notice all images of plugs shown going into EVs were all J-1772 plugs carrying AC, that's no way to get DC into a car! I am also wondering if this DC to DC system will require any changes to the car. Not sure if the car would like the power dropping off when a cloud rolls by. My I3 records an error when a chargers power cuts out unexpectedly.
Are they sure they were the first for Bi Directional DC charging? I thought Wall box was the first with the Quasar 2. check out the Quasar 2. Wall box did have the quasar 1with Bi directional some time ago but was not DC. Last time I checked the importer was hopefully going to have the Quasar 2 in Australia some time around March this year. Possibly a rough estimate 10K-12k buy price. Still way cheaper than a high end battery, and of course dual purpose. The Australian government in Canberra is still testing several EV's at the moment which have Bi Directional capability. Nissan leaf & Cupra Born.
excellent , im kind of building my system with the idea of THE FUTURE POTENTIAL is not known yet , especially since it has been an 18mth learning curve with still more questions than answers , the only limitation seems to be the lack of sunlight
HVDC powered Air Conditioning especially the Compressor would be a great use of VAWT + Solar PV + Battery Energy Storage. Makes it more efficient to use your on site generated power.
You don't need a big system at all. My 6.5kw system has a 5 kw inverter and generates an average of 25 kwh per day. A Tesla model 3 only holds 60kw. A system that generates 25 kwh per day can more than charge 2 x Model 3s for 20 years.
Not quite this hack. More likely a hookup from their home's battery bank to a DC-DC boost converter and variable current limiter with voltage differential disconnect relay. Hopefully, this isn't much more than that or there will be wasted electricity. Many mass-produced solutions have bells and whistles to make you feel like you are getting something for your money. The sad truth is that the less impressive it seems the more impressive it probably is.
@@durinok Inverters change DC into AC so you can tie to the grid. DC to DC converters use similar technology - high frequency transistors and transformers - but they make smooth DC on the output at the voltage you want, without having to make a nice smooth sine wave, which wastes power. Transistors work on DC, and if you want AC you will need more of them to get the proper phases out. A simple boost converter might only need one transistor. Probably a big one, in this case.
The shame of most systems is solar panels cannot charge your EV directly. If the grid is down, you cannot charge as the microinverters are designed to turn off. If you bring DC down from the panels, this charger makes sense. It may be able to work directly from this DC. This load shifts EV charging to peak solar production thus reducing peak demand from the grid.
My 41 solar panels rated at 13.25 kW have optimisers on the back of each panel. As a result, the DC power generated by the panels goes to both the battery and inverter. By delaying charging the battery until noon during summer, my system exports more power in the morning and then charges the battery, either from power in excess of the 5 kW export limit, or after noon. The result is that 5 kW can go directly into the house battery and the rest, up to 10 kW, through the inverter to the house, car and grid. The amount of power generated can therefore not only exceed the inverter's 10 kW limit but also the panels' rated output. The maximum generated that I have seen and believe is possible because of the limits imposed by the battery's charging capacity and the 10 kW limit of the inverter is 15.2 kW.
This is a good development because it shows that people are starting to think outside the Grid! Several responders have said that they could add more solar PV but their supply authority won't let them: That's only because you have a grid connection: go off grid and you can have as many panels as you want! Use your EV plus a home storage battery to store energy during the day, if the storage is big enough you will have enough for several days of dull weather. One aspect of EVs that viking has hardly touched on, is whether their battery charging and control systems are bidirectional, ie, allow Vehicle to Home or Vehicle to Grid as well as the usual Home to Vehicle or Grid to Vehicle. The V to H and H to V capabilities are important for anyone contemplating going off-grid. I read some months back that Tesla cars are not suited for V to H use, but the often-overlooked Nissan Leaf is suitable.
David, it is my understanding that Nissan uses DC from the car and that conversion is done in the bidirectional charging equipment. There are two V2G, V2X camps, the DC and the AC from car. Maybe both types will exist in the longer term or maybe one type will dominate? The main difference is that DC makes the charger more expensive and the AC requires more circuitry in the car. It is a trade-off.
@@kaijen2688 It's a good question, and the limit is imposed by the Grid owners/operators. The 'traditional' answer is that too much supply may lead to grid instability; the real answer is that they prefer to buy from a few big well-regulated generators, than from a million home-generators which are more difficult to organise to supply the power when it is most needed.
@conventional… the AC charging or AC discharging is limited by the onboard AC charger, a small 7k unit. Direct DC charging/discharging bypasses the onboard charger. This gives access to the HV traction battery and its 20 to 100 kWh.
I had to look that one up: the Vienna Rectifier was invented in 1993 by Johann W. Kolar and is a pulse-width modulation rectifier that normally converts a three-phase AC input into DC. Presumably a single-phase version is approximately 1/3 as complex, since it is only dealing with one phase.
Direct Solar to vehicle battery charging I have been doing for 10 years, DC to DC. Technically MPPT charge controllers mess with the dc to optimize system efficiency but require no other power source connection. Some of my applications have no controls whatsoever. Boats, lawn tractors, heaters, and lighting are examples. Businesses sell black boxes and services, if you can find safe ways to avoid them you save money.
The question would be about batter degradation. If there is ripple current and variability from the solar powered DC charging it is possible. That needs more investigation. Fast DC charging has some negative consequences for battery life, but less powerful DC charging like this is rarely discuss. Would be a great question to address.
.@Charles… Nissan has recently approved the Leafs battery to handle the moderate D/C charging and V2x of dcbels product without voiding the manufacturer’s battery warranty . Controlled V2g use may even prolong battery life.
4 miles per KWH is an efficient EV car to day. 1000w of panels (5 200w) panels gets you between 3-4 miles for each full solar hour of operation, loses not certain. So maybe 20-30 miles of operation per day in a favorable location. Now a lighter more efficient solar EV, like Aptera (promised 10 miles per KWH, if it happens), and you easily double that added range per day.
AC to DC 'conversion' is not inefficient. The little switchmode power supplies you have to charge your phone, run and charge your laptop, and run your desktop PC would melt if they had to dissipate the heat caused by the power loss being claimed. DC to DC converters are commonplace and have similar efficiencies for one very simple reason - they too use switchmode power supply circuitry. Basically, the first thing an AC switchmode power supply does is rectify the AC to DC, then the rest is pretty much the same as a DC to DC one. Oh, and solar inverters are also very efficient. Sure, going direct DC to DC will be a little more efficient, but unlikely to be anything like the boost being claimed. Think about it. The AC to DC charger is not much different to the DC to DC charger. The only real difference is the elimination of the inverter which is generally around 95% efficient. You'll save 5%.
If you want to feed the grid, you'll need an inverter. If you want to also DC feed your car, you'll need a switch to swap between them. If you don't feed the grid, you'll have nowhere to put all that lovely sunshine power if you're driving your car instead. So, I dunno, this seems to violate the KISS principle.
@@jamesvandamme7786, the other thing to remember is that the charger is actually in the car. The device on the wall in your garage is called a charger but really isn't. It talks to the charger and is instructed when to switch on and off. Yes, you still need an inverter to supply your house whether it is from the solar panels (assuming the car charging leave any power left) or the car battery. I don't really think this is more complex but by the same token, it's not less complex either. It doesn't save much and you really need to look at the whole picture. Is it better to run your house on solar during the day and charge the from AC overnight? Asuming your car is home during the day while you are at work, you'll be charging the car on solar and running the house on mains power during the peak rate period. Alternative, you could be running your house on solar during the peak rate and charging your car at the cheaper night rate. From an economic standpoint, this DC charging solution looks unnecessarily expensive.
Wrong wrong wrong. Give me just 2 or 3kW of solar power, I leave an EV plugged in all daynearly every day. That's 10 to 15 kWh per day, enough to drive 40 mi. Or more. A fairly modest rooftop array. A lot of people have 6 or 10 kW arrays. I mean i do work at home but drive each day on errands . My wife commutes but could alternate cars each day. Our combined average daily is probably only 40 mi, so that small array could actually fully power our 2 cars. It's an unusual use case yes but not unheard of to have cars parked at home during the day. The nice thing is this could be very simple, no inverter no batteries, independent no grid tie no power co approval, cut your electric bill in half maybe.
Ive been charging my ebike by solar for over 5 years now using panels to a dcdc boost converter. At 95% efficiency its about twice as efficient as going through an inverter and ebike mains charger.
Is there a Slow EV DC charge standard? doesn't need to eb quick for me, its the efficiency gains of then getting home battery and solar PV; if i plug into the car it just becomes a place I store energy at home and a place i can draw from at peak times / If there was a power cut. Just feels like a missing piece where an Internal invertor only then provide power into the AC house, and the DC battery and DC PV can charge the DC Car?
Makes sense with a side load battery but if you are like me with micro inverters already on my panels this makes no sense if you are doing a full home conversion and making your lighting low voltage leds running on dc then yes this works. Savings from dc to dc charging works but dc optimizers have been faulty but if they iron that out that can easily replace micro inverters. Less losses the better through inversions.
Enphase and Wallbox Quantum2 , others (Franklin Power (San Francisco, CA) ) are moving toward V2G/V3h Support and their products are really interesting. Looking forward to meet ya Sam ! Thx for the great reports, all the best to your family + treatment success for Shanna. I wish the utility vendors would get their nose out of their customer's business, if I want to pay to have 60Kw for my house and garage for solar and battery, why can't I ?
AC makes changing voltage simple. With DC it is not straight forward. So I assume raising the output voltage of the panels to that of the car battery is an issue. I understand they have DC to AC to DC within the unit. Charging a storage battery bank is not a great issue. In fact yachts etc do so as they only use DC.
With most people having to drive to work during the day when DC charging would be best applied, I see this application being more for commercial use from businesses where people are actually parked during the day. Let's hope semi-fast DC charging could one day become the norm however instead of the much slower AC charging.
It gets everybody here (this thread) a thumbs up from me. Many people under this video have stated this fact, The Chinese has been doing this for a while. Everybody knows how China doesn't recognize patents. I guess this is the Western version of not recognized Chinese innovation. By acting like this is a brand-new product to hit the market.
This needn't be limited to only when the sun is out. If a house has a battery pack, the charger could connect to that. At that point, the charger starts to become like an all-in-one inverter product. (I'm hoping all-in-one inverter products can be called "PPCs"--Private Power Controllers--to makes us think of them as cheap commodity industry-standard-architecture products like PCs, because they are becoming standardized commodities based on standard 48V battery modules and PV modules which are already very standardized.) The PPC vendors could start including car chargers that will offer DC charging but automatically switch to AC when the home battery drops below the set minimum and the PPC has to switch to grid or generator. I mean, they already have the power electronics to do it, it's just a matter of programming the mandated CCS2 protocol and connecting the connector (be it CCS or NACS). Having a separate box for home DC charging when you already have a PPC is duplication of expensive metal and power electronics. The PPC vendors, hungry and industrious as they have proven themselves, will likely try this--it's a huge and growing market. When you get your PPC, you could also get a charger! And get a charger that delivers more of your precious private harvested energy potentially way faster with more peak power than any other home charger!
depending on the price I think it's worthwile for anyone with a medium sized PV array ~4kW because while yes you are not going to charge even as fast as AC charging it's just more efficent so your not wasting energy inverting to AC, and if it's bi directional meaning you can power your home off the car battery, it could mean that you only need a 5kWh home battery to collect solar power because you car has like 50 - 75kWh in it, f*** even plug in hybrids with 50 miles range have batteries in the ~10kWh of capacity, so being able to use your EV/Hybrid as a house battery would reduce the cost of the system.
Wondering if this charger can be hooked up with Tesla power wall? Currently it goes from dc to dc into PW, if it could go straight into the car it would be great savings on the efficiency! Especially in the mid summer when it’s peak energy, and power would go to the energy company anyway getting only a few cents on the dollar in return that is rather get into the car!
sorry to burst your bubble but the chineese have had this for years, nothing new here dude. we have a 30 kw dc dc charger , chineese off course. really nothing special about the dc/dc part as any switch mode charger turns the a/c into d/c on first step, so all chargers are pretty much dc/dc chargers.
@glenngogogo I guess This will last a long time since China has been doing it for a long time. Many people under this video have stated the fact, The Chinese have been doing this for a while. Everybody knows how China doesn't recognize #Patents. I guess this is the Western version of not recognizing Chinese innovation. *"By acting like this is a brand-new product to hit the market"* . 🤔
This is a big thing for me. I got solar panel at home an just bought an ev. I have done research for having Ev charger at home. It is expensive and also loses because converts Dc from solar to Ac and to Dc to the car. hopefully there is an installer that can do direct from Solar to my EV - DC to DC. DC Coupling.
What should be talked about is that Victorian allows solar batteries to be charged and discharged but it's not yet legal (or illegal for that matter) to use ev batteries to charged and discharged. When can we get bidirectional chargers and when will it be cheaper....
The problem is a bit more complicated than first appears. Cars run on DC but everything in your home/office runs on AC so neither form is ideal. Also, EVs are often in use while solar energy is being generated.
@@icosthop9998 That is why people buy panels with microinverters which are 95% efficient, and sell power to the grid, and when at home with the car, plug into the grid. This company overstates the inefficiencies and understates the complexity. If your load always matches your source, it works great. If you're not charging your car, you're wasting sunshine unless you can feed the grid or store it somewhere.
20 panels? Current high end panels are around 400 watts these days. 15kW is about 37 panels at maximum irradiance, which only occurs for a couple of hours each day. This is exciting. I've been thinking, and looking, for such a solution for years now, and the closest thing to higher efficiency has been Myenergi products. Devil is in the details however. Older PV installation paralleled the panels to a low voltage output of around 48 to 60 volts. Newer installations have gone with the benefits of high voltage serial connected panels to create strings of 400 to 500 volts or so. There is no standard, but higher voltage is generally better. This device would have to be tolerant of a huge range of DC input. It can certainly be done, and I am intrigued enough to research it.
If we combine a battery storage, where we save the DC from the PV solar cells, and then use this storage power directly to charge the car with DC, then it would be a win-win, right?
You can also store energy as heat in a tank-type water heater. Power up the water heater after the EV is charged or while the EV is out and about. Electric baseboard heaters for space heat also work well as a diversion load. Water heater and baseboard heaters work fine on DC though the switches in them do NOT. Need solid state relays or switch them on as part of the controller.
You actually do not even need a "charger" if the panels are connected in series to properly match the battery voltage. Just might want to monitor and not overcharge.
I'm not sure I would really call it ingenious. It's basically just directly powering your car from a battery or cells directly instead of using an inverter, but this will never be as cheap as the alternative. This means it will carry high power DC which is actually poorly taught to home electrical workers so you'd need specialists to install it. Though I guess if you're going to get solar backup you likely were paying for that already. Other downside is that's an outlet that's literally only useable for your car. Normal 240V outlets can at least be used to also power tools if you need it but a DC line would also need inverters. Plus this necessitates a new BMS for any EV to use it. No EV on the market could utilize this without modifications as they just aren't made for it. Not even those with existing V2L or V2H. We already have issues with EVs adding just normal V2L, this seems like an extra difficulty as now there's also the fight for DC or AC output.
another blow to microinverters and Enphase. Tesla should be doing this type of product. conversion is lossy, I believe it is around 92-94% efficiency. You double the loss as there;s two conversions, Solar Panel to AC then AC to DC inside the car. However, the company Enteligent should make a more centralized all-in one product almost like a Powerwall as EV charging is the most power hungry in a typical residence and the electronic/electric components are reused or avoid redundant components depending on operation mode.
Allot of are electronics runs off dc . So you have to convert ac to DC which is inefficient . Now converting your DC solar to ac using an inverter wastes quite a bit of energy . This is why off grid houses would be better to use DC devices and appliances . Basically a DC house . As I suggested most electronics runs off dc already . The RV industry already has DC appliances
Why can’t you have a big battery bank say 20kwh, charge it with solar panels for say 1 week or whatever time. Then plug in dc from battery to vehicle using some type of device/adaptor using your vehicles L3 plug. This way you are not wasting energy converting to AC then back to DC? What am I missing here. Is the limitation the vehicle connector? So what if you don’t get blazing fast speeds, can you not DC from battery bank to car direct? What is the limitation to use batteries at home and power that just on solar alone?
I don’t think there is any guarantees for Shanna. As someone who’s been through a less extreme but similar experience with my wife all I know is having someone look after you who thinks there’s a chance is better than having someone who doesn’t. Or in the Vikings case, having someone who doesn’t even want to try !
Ideal would be a setting to charge no faster than the solar supply. How hard can it be to use only the energy coming off the roof? It’s rarely the case that the owner needs it to charge faster at home. What’s the rush?
Just as a small correction Fronius inverters as with others are 95 to 98% when converting DC to AC. I don't really see a massive benefit to the product at this stage given the amount of panels required.
The advantage is that no grid connection is needed for this system. It will be even better when they divert surplus PV electricity to a water heater or to space heat, which are also Not connected to the grid. Remember, 16 of the states in the US do Not allow solar to be connected to the grid. With this system, it's nobody's business that one has solar on their house.
I have a 9.21kw system on my roof and quite often at around 1-2pm in mid summer my system outputs 9kw for close to 1 hr, so that is pretty dang close to nameplate output minus efficiency loses. Most of my panels are new 500W Longi mono's, plus an 11 year old smaller array of 190W Tianwei mono's. The older panels have no noticeable decline in production. Panels are growing bigger every year. Larger output per panel makes big gains in cost efficiencies, but aren't kind to old electricians like me...
I don't understand why this would be bidirectional. You can't charge solar panels. Most solar chargers use DC to charge batteries. DC-DC chargers are well known. Most people don't leave their cars at home when they go to work. Nothing to see here.
This isn’t for installs like mine. I use Enphase micro inverters which means 240 V AC comes down from my roof. Effectively micro inverters make panels output AC current. Many newer systems are installed this way. And yes not only would it require a massive solar array but it would suck all the power from a 10 KW array leaving the home on grid power. This I predict will be a niche product. Can a system like mine be converted to output both AC & DC? Yes very easy on paper, would need to be completely rewired which would double the wire. Then unless DIY the labor would be nearly equal to the initial installation labor cost. And this would not solve the problem of robbing all power from my home. It would be just as cheap to double my panels. But if I worked a day job the car would not even be home. I see this as a niche product that works very well for a small number of installations .
Not quite the Worlds first. China's first all DC micro-grid EV charging station integrated battery detection and PV energy storage system is rapidly rolling out across the country. It's all positive.
I believe the Electric Viking talked of the future changes in batteries, solar and everything else. You were right about everything else. Congratulations on another spot on prediction.
Um, no. Alternators are controlled in current output by varying the field winding current. You can't do that on a solar array, you have whatever voltage it feels like putting out. The DC to DC converter's job is to change that into the voltage the load wants. It chops it into varying length pulses and runs it through a transformer at high frequency (to reduce the size) then rectifies the output.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Solar arrays have a different setup but they still need the P & N junctions. Now for the alternator what does current control last time I built a rectifier I never put in any current control.
@@BamBam-uf4yi There's no control on the output of an alternator, just diodes which change AC to DC. You could control the output that way but it would take large, expensive high power transistors. The output of an alternator is controlled by varying the field winding current with a lower powered transistor driven by a feedback loop. The loop samples the battery voltage and in some cases the ambient temperature to maintain the proper battery voltage. So it's a magnetic amplifier.
I would love a home dc to dc. My i3 gets 80% in 30 minutes, but I only know of one publicly available in Chicago. Dreams come true, if you wait long enough!
A DC/DC converter hopefully with peek power tracking. Changes panel DC to high frequency AC then back to a high voltage DC current source to charge the battery, maybe 95% efficiency. Just takes battery charge and discharge losses out of the picture.
In going from DC to DC you have to equalize voltages. The solar voltage may be higher or lower than the battery voltage. This is typically done by storing energy in an inductor. The voltage across the inductor is used to make up the difference. But to control this inductor voltage you need to turn the current going into and/or out of the inductor on and off. From the solar panels you use MPPT (Maximum Power Point Transfer) to set this current. It adjusts current and voltage from the panel to its maximum wattage (i.e. current * voltage). A battery is a store of Coulombs. A Coulomb is an Amp-Second. You must raise the voltage across the battery to a level delivering the maximum number of amp-seconds (i.e coulombs) the battery can accept. It's like a fire hose where coulombs are the water. The voltage is the water pressure. All this switching can be done very efficiently. However limits on the solar panels and/or the battery may result in some dead time. This is a period when the solar has to be turned off because too much energy is in the inductor. Or the battery has to be turned off because the inductor voltage is too high. This looks like a loss. If you have a separate battery bank that extra energy can be directed there. If not, it's lost.
sorry to burst your bubble but the Chinese have had this for years, nothing new here dude. we have a 30 kw dc dc charger , Chinese off course. really nothing special about the dc/dc part as any switch mode charger turns the a/c into d/c on first step, so all chargers are pretty much dc/dc chargers. Also modern chargers for cars etc use a H bridge circuit which by design is bi directional, its basically choice whether you want to use this aspect off the design or not, but its certainly nothing special. No doubt the Americans will be trying to patented it as their invention doing their usual monopoly control
Micro inverters are normally optional. Some solar inverters are able to receive AC and DC from panels, Sol-Ark for example. I plan to have AC panels on my shed and DC panels on my garage and have a small battery bank and use my 64k car as emergency backup. This technology is moving really fast!
DC-to-DC is definitely a lot more efficient. But this could be a bit of a hard sell anyway. Many solar installations these days are AC-coupled (use micro-inverters). A home with a battery system would be able to benefit but a home without a battery system... maybe not so much.
Its not the firat. There have been others bjt there was no real market for them so they stopped making them. Solaredge was one. Still no real market. Very limited where they could be used.
This will be good for supermarket car parks with solar above. Most people shop during the day so they could have their cars charge while they shop.
This is a great thing for me. We have maxed out our grid connected solar with 20kw of solar panels connected to a 15kw 3 phase grid connected inverter. We can't legally connect any more solar to the grid. We can get very cheap used solar panels and I currently have about 15kw of used solar panels ready to install on our shed. I like the idea of using these panels to charge our car during the day.
Hi
I’m interested in what country your from. Here in the Uk we are restricted to 16amps or about 3.6 KW per phase without permission. Personally I’m from the side that thinks it’s sometimes better to ask forgiveness rather than permission 😀
@@ratscabies8458 I'm in Australia. Where I am located we are allowed to export 5kw/h peak per phase. So 15kw/h across 3 phases. Approval for this needed to be done prior to installation. We have 20kw of solar panels but grid export is limited to 15kw/h. The extra 5kw of panels helps make up for inefficiencies and increases the shoulder of the power production curve. Eg more power earlier and later in the day.
Why can you not make your system as big as you can afford?
@@MrCountrycuz lobbyist for the electric company
@@MrCountrycuz Politics, Same here in California, the electric company says how much you can produce and politicians let them. I have a 17.5kw system because that's all they allowed me to have based on my usage. I will almost certainly need more in the future when I get another EV but they don't care.
Good fit for a DC only solar system: PV and/or wind turbine > DC charge controller > DC battery > and the new DC bidirectional charger. Downside, very few ppl use such DC only system.
Its amazing this hasn't already been implemented or even the standard as it's the most efficient.
Not quite. Imagine you had a few solar panels stowed on your vehicle and a small MPPT charge controller. Now, imagine your built-in charger was a DC-DC boost converter. Your charge controller would take the power that you place on your roof rack while you're parked at work or the mall and would sent 58.6 volts to the converter and that would, in turn, boost it to the voltage needed to charge your car. It might give you a mere 10 miles per day for your efforts but this would be more efficient than the system described here. When you park under your carport or garage, you can connect your charge controller to the solar panel array on that roof for fast charging. The combination of charge controller and boost converter would probably weigh less than the existing charge management hardware. I'm just presuming about the weight difference. The efficiency is a no-brainer though. The most complicated part of the system would be those components that take the amperage output down to the battery's recommended levels gradually as the batteries reach the voltage of the converter's output and then cut the charging off when they reach the level of fullness that you set. This is necessary to prevent premature battery cell failure. Anyway, the absolute most efficient isn't the same as the most efficient that is currently offered. Each method will use some amount of the power in the process of charging. The fancier it seems, the more likely that its wasting more than the most simple option.
Great solution for transport companies with warehouse, solar, battery and EV trucks
I need to do more research on this because if it works in the way I hope it does the applications will be *huge* and I've never been given a satisfactory reason as to why a direct DC Solar PV to DC EV Battery charger does not exist. The car and PV generator/charger will clearly need to communicate State of Charge and a number of other parameters just like any EV DC charger already does, and vary that on a second-by-second basis, but I've never understood why this is any different to charging any DC battery from Solar PV. If this charger does *not* require a grid frequency to operate then completely off-grid Solar EV charging stations can be deployed anywhere completely independent of grid power. For Australia in particular this could be profound, with everyone from farmers to EV 4X4s doing the Gunbarrel highway and knowing they can pull up to an off-grid array in the middle of nowhere and recharge as long as there's enough Solar. I personally would love to have a second Solar PV system on my roof just to charge the cars from Solar PV, completely independent of the existing Solar PV system or the grid. As long as it conforms to AU/NZ wiring standards and doesn't touch the grid and is safe with nothing connected to it, then that opens up the possibility of using all the remaining spare roof space I'm not allowed to put panels on without losing my Feed In Tariff. Very interesting, thanks mate, keep it coming and sending love to you and your wife for her recovery.
Listening to Sam the way Australia is set up, that country is perfect for solar panels.
The rooftop solar system seems it would not work for Level
I would think about it this way: You can't just use the DC generated by the panels on your house to charge your car. You have to regulate the voltage. To do this most effectively, DC is converted using transistors switching at high speed to create high frequency AC that then passes through a filter to provide DC again at the right voltage. Modern switching inverters work roughly the same way, but the transistors switch at high frequency with different width of pulses to approximate 60 Hz and then go through a filter to provide AC. Essentially, it is a very similar process with roughly the same efficiency, just one outputs AC and the other DC.
If providing a storage battery, DC from panels goes through a regulator to provide DC at the right voltage to charge the storage battery then through another regulator again to charge the car battery (two voltage conversions). If you went from DC panels to AC line voltage back to DC to charge the car, also 2 conversions and roughly the same losses. The only way you can reduce the losses is to cut out one of the conversions.
@@larryevans6739 You're working with a false premise. You can do (and do do) DC to DC conversion with no AC stage. Buck, Boost, and Buck/Boost DC-DC converters work this way. The energy is stored in an inductor. By using very high frequency switching they can use small inductors. But the current is always going in the same direction... i.e. DC. The voltage across the inductor is adjusted by adjusting the current (amps = coulombs per second) through it to make up the required difference in input and output voltage.
@@toddmarshall7573 It is not a false premise, as I said "most effectively". The type of voltage regulator you are describing tends to be less efficient in these types of high amperage applications than a PWM-based converter. If you want to lose more energy just to not have to go to AC for some odd reason, then yes it does not need to have an AC stage.
My future portable tiny house will be a off grid 48V DC house with solar and battery storage. It will still a have an efficient DC to AC inverter for those few appliances that *must* have AC. Luckily most low power appliances run on DC already, and can be converted to use USB-C cables (up to 240W 48V with current standard and will problably updated with more watts in the future) directly instead of all those inefficient AC to DC adapters. Eliminating AC adapters saves two unnecessary conversions, first from DC to AC (solar/battery to AC adapter input) and then back from AC to DC to the appliance.
Think this makes more sense if you have battery storage at home... DC-DC from that battery to your charger. But either way you need either a very large solar system and/or a very large battery storage system. Going to be a niche product for general consumers. The place were we will probably see this a lot is in those DC chargers that have battery storage to offset peak usage charges.
DC to DC was made some years ago by a Spanish company. A bit expensive but been selling in EU for many years now.
That's why they added unnecessary steps and titles to make it seem like it is the first of something needed when, in reality, it is likely less desirable than the one you're talking about.
Dammit! I don't have rooftop solar, only freestanding solar and lots of it.
Good for Solar Paneled car parks. Not many cars at home during the day!!
Though not mentioned in the vid, a whole-house system of charging the EV if it is home, then divert the PV electricity to power one's water heater, and lastly to heating one's space, all from the same PV array. That is what I am running right now-- sans the EV charger part. The DC slow charger is next. The company in the vid is probably not brave enough to provide such a whole-house solution.
The dcbel R16 (Canadian) also does direct solar. But yeah, it doesn't seem like you would get that much better efficiency than the DC-AC-DC. The DC to DC chargers ( such as this) would require a boost converter and controller which is essentially the same thing. It would be nice if there were a simple low power DC2DC controller which would boost your solar voltage to your car's battery charging voltage and take care of the CCS DC fast charge comms. Batteries are the most expensive part of a solar setup as is the red tape of installation/grid tie. 5kW of panels and a off grid charger would be do most people's commutes (then some) in moderately sunny places. Bidirectional would be sweet but I don't see how ev manufactures are incentivized to provide this feature, It's not in their interest.
It's obviously in their interest to sell more cars, so if someone wants a solar system and can't afford enough batteries, then buying a bidirectional car will be an incredibly attractive option. I know someone who is keen to do this. Me!
The dcbel unit is extremely versatile and capable, and is much, much more than just a charger. It's DC to DC functions can move current from wherever to anywhere you want, never doing any conversions. I am looking forward to it's deployment any day now. It's expensive, but it's a beast and should make solar/battery/EV/grid management a breeze.
@tweebs1 It might be possible for EV manufacturers to eliminate the onboard A/C slow chargers and rely on land based chargers like these and land based A/C chargers.That would save them $, space and weight.
Love the channel. Something similar might already exist as "CHArge de MOve" the first and second generation of chargers except for solar integration. I wonder if you could apply a home power bank to that system.
I’m sure it is possible, it’s really just a matter of getting the right components.
Ty for renewable/sustainable information well done
Efficiency is the reason to go this route and for any homeowner, the topic of faster charging shouldn't even be in mind because that's not what this is about and not many people are going to have huge solar systems on their house like i do. What matters most about DC to DC for a home is that the controller can charge your car with all excess power that has been generated and your car is going to act as an additional battery to your system that will probably be prioritized until the car reaches the desired charging level. So this home charger will hopefully be able to work with the MPPT of the inverter system to make sure it only draws the remaining DC power from the PV system after the power requirements for the home are supplied. This eliminates the guesswork as to how many amps your car can charge based on where the sun is for the day.
A PV system inverter should be about 97% efficient minimum. I believe Tesla claimed their onboard AC to DC converter is around 92% efficient. So with that in mind, your solar system is losing about 10% of its energy when charging your car going from DC to AC and back to DC. In fact, a lot of things in your home are suffering these efficiency losses and i hope that as homes start to pack on solar power that we'll consider wiring up our equipment to operate right of our DC power rather than go through the inverter. With some new wiring, the LEDs in your home could use the DC straight from your solar system. And it's entirely possible for companies to start supplying DC powered refrigerators and freezers. Our gadgets could obviously skip the inverter although their power needs are really low so you'd only find benefits to that if you're doing wiring for a new house. Charging blocks for phones are pretty inefficient though unless you buy a good one so keep that in mind!
Finally! about time. I wish this was out last year. I could have really used it!
This is exactly why my EV conversions are 96-volt for my city car and 144-volt for my short-range backroad highway car. Each voltage is divisible by 48 and each has contactors that do just that. The contactors are manual rather than electrical due to the need to stay as inexpensive and DIY-friendly as possible. While the battery banks are divided into 48-volt batteries, they charge from my carport and ground-mount solar arrays and my off-grid inverter/charge controller. I don't charge to full capacity of 59.2 per battery but 56.8 instead. My conversions are RWD kits from Alibaba suppliers and are somewhat inefficient but they get the job done. I couldn't afford to deal with DC-AC-DC conversion losses or I'd have to charge every 3 days. As it is, I have to charge about every 4 days if I drive the same car every day. My capacities aren't all that large and my performance is low but so has the cost been and so will it remain. The automotive industry doesn't want you to have it easy or they'd place a 48 to (car's nominal) boost converter where your existing AC to DC converter is. I'm obviously not a follower or an inside-the-box thinker and neither should anyone else be if they like having what they need with much less monetary investment. Of course, people are all about instant gratification and I'm no exception. This is why my next EV will not be a ICE to electric conversion but rather an electric to electric. The fun is in making something that can do the job into something that does it right.
I look at all these comments and can't help but feel sorry that I'm so much more interested in learning about these technologies than the average potential adopter. Trust is not the most valuable trait you can have. At least not for you. It is for those who would take advantage of you. No business is going to make something that doesn't take advantage of some common disadvantage you have when compared to them. That's why you may want to come up with your own solutions. Even the solar power industry tries to get over on you with disconnects and combiner boxes because they know that you won't think for yourself if you can be tricked into believing that they did the thinking that you might have chosen not to. Not everything we are offered is as beneficial as it is touted to be. Good luck with the methods you choose. I hope they are better for you than having not chosen them.
Do we think small load DC in the home will take off as affordable battery storage becomes available? Lighting circuits will probably benefit from this & we have stacks of DC devices currently connected to AC transformers.
Couldn't help but notice all images of plugs shown going into EVs were all J-1772 plugs carrying AC, that's no way to get DC into a car! I am also wondering if this DC to DC system will require any changes to the car. Not sure if the car would like the power dropping off when a cloud rolls by. My I3 records an error when a chargers power cuts out unexpectedly.
Are they sure they were the first for Bi Directional DC charging? I thought Wall box was the first with the Quasar 2. check out the Quasar 2. Wall box did have the quasar 1with Bi directional some time ago but was not DC. Last time I checked the importer was hopefully going to have the Quasar 2 in Australia some time around March this year. Possibly a rough estimate 10K-12k buy price. Still way cheaper than a high end battery, and of course dual purpose. The Australian government in Canberra is still testing several EV's at the moment which have Bi Directional capability. Nissan leaf & Cupra Born.
excellent , im kind of building my system with the idea of THE FUTURE POTENTIAL is not known yet , especially since it has been an 18mth learning curve with still more questions than answers , the only limitation seems to be the lack of sunlight
HVDC powered Air Conditioning especially the Compressor would be a great use of VAWT + Solar PV + Battery Energy Storage. Makes it more efficient to use your on site generated power.
You don't need a big system at all. My 6.5kw system has a 5 kw inverter and generates an average of 25 kwh per day. A Tesla model 3 only holds 60kw. A system that generates 25 kwh per day can more than charge 2 x Model 3s for 20 years.
Hard to believe this took so long. Its such a no brainer low tech solution. I'm sure many have done this hack by themselves
Not quite this hack. More likely a hookup from their home's battery bank to a DC-DC boost converter and variable current limiter with voltage differential disconnect relay. Hopefully, this isn't much more than that or there will be wasted electricity. Many mass-produced solutions have bells and whistles to make you feel like you are getting something for your money. The sad truth is that the less impressive it seems the more impressive it probably is.
Is it possible to eliminate inverters from this system, i.e. charge the EV battery directly or from battery storage linked to solar panels?
I think that is what it does?
The battery voltage would have to be higher than the car's batteries. That would be a massive battery system.
@@markthomasson5077 I thought so too at the beginning, but then he talks about inverters further on in the video, so I don’t understand.
@@durinok Inverters change DC into AC so you can tie to the grid. DC to DC converters use similar technology - high frequency transistors and transformers - but they make smooth DC on the output at the voltage you want, without having to make a nice smooth sine wave, which wastes power. Transistors work on DC, and if you want AC you will need more of them to get the proper phases out. A simple boost converter might only need one transistor. Probably a big one, in this case.
The shame of most systems is solar panels cannot charge your EV directly. If the grid is down, you cannot charge as the microinverters are designed to turn off. If you bring DC down from the panels, this charger makes sense. It may be able to work directly from this DC. This load shifts EV charging to peak solar production thus reducing peak demand from the grid.
My 41 solar panels rated at 13.25 kW have optimisers on the back of each panel. As a result, the DC power generated by the panels goes to both the battery and inverter. By delaying charging the battery until noon during summer, my system exports more power in the morning and then charges the battery, either from power in excess of the 5 kW export limit, or after noon. The result is that 5 kW can go directly into the house battery and the rest, up to 10 kW, through the inverter to the house, car and grid. The amount of power generated can therefore not only exceed the inverter's 10 kW limit but also the panels' rated output. The maximum generated that I have seen and believe is possible because of the limits imposed by the battery's charging capacity and the 10 kW limit of the inverter is 15.2 kW.
This is a good development because it shows that people are starting to think outside the Grid!
Several responders have said that they could add more solar PV but their supply authority won't let them: That's only because you have a grid connection: go off grid and you can have as many panels as you want! Use your EV plus a home storage battery to store energy during the day, if the storage is big enough you will have enough for several days of dull weather.
One aspect of EVs that viking has hardly touched on, is whether their battery charging and control systems are bidirectional, ie, allow Vehicle to Home or Vehicle to Grid as well as the usual Home to Vehicle or Grid to Vehicle. The V to H and H to V capabilities are important for anyone contemplating going off-grid. I read some months back that Tesla cars are not suited for V to H use, but the often-overlooked Nissan Leaf is suitable.
David, it is my understanding that Nissan uses DC from the car and that conversion is done in the bidirectional charging equipment. There are two V2G, V2X camps, the DC and the AC from car. Maybe both types will exist in the longer term or maybe one type will dominate?
The main difference is that DC makes the charger more expensive and the AC requires more circuitry in the car. It is a trade-off.
@@conventionalwisdom Thanks for that. It is clear that we can expect more development in this area as the EV technology matures.😀
Why is there a limitation to what you can produce and sell back?
@@kaijen2688 It's a good question, and the limit is imposed by the Grid owners/operators. The 'traditional' answer is that too much supply may lead to grid instability; the real answer is that they prefer to buy from a few big well-regulated generators, than from a million home-generators which are more difficult to organise to supply the power when it is most needed.
@conventional… the AC charging or AC discharging is limited by the onboard AC charger, a small 7k unit. Direct DC charging/discharging bypasses the onboard charger. This gives access to the HV traction battery and its 20 to 100 kWh.
An experiment: At your own risk, take a single phase Viena Rectifier circuit, replace the AC input with a DC supply and it should work.
I had to look that one up: the Vienna Rectifier was invented in 1993 by Johann W. Kolar and is a pulse-width modulation rectifier that normally converts a three-phase AC input into DC. Presumably a single-phase version is approximately 1/3 as complex, since it is only dealing with one phase.
That would probably work, but it wouldn't eliminate losses due to voltage drops across the diodes.
Direct Solar to vehicle battery charging I have been doing for 10 years, DC to DC. Technically MPPT charge controllers mess with the dc to optimize system efficiency but require no other power source connection. Some of my applications have no controls whatsoever. Boats, lawn tractors, heaters, and lighting are examples. Businesses sell black boxes and services, if you can find safe ways to avoid them you save money.
The question would be about batter degradation. If there is ripple current and variability from the solar powered DC charging it is possible. That needs more investigation. Fast DC charging has some negative consequences for battery life, but less powerful DC charging like this is rarely discuss. Would be a great question to address.
.@Charles… Nissan has recently approved the Leafs battery to handle the moderate D/C charging and V2x of dcbels product without voiding the manufacturer’s battery warranty . Controlled V2g use may even prolong battery life.
4 miles per KWH is an efficient EV car to day. 1000w of panels (5 200w) panels gets you between 3-4 miles for each full solar hour of operation, loses not certain. So maybe 20-30 miles of operation per day in a favorable location. Now a lighter more efficient solar EV, like Aptera (promised 10 miles per KWH, if it happens), and you easily double that added range per day.
AC to DC 'conversion' is not inefficient. The little switchmode power supplies you have to charge your phone, run and charge your laptop, and run your desktop PC would melt if they had to dissipate the heat caused by the power loss being claimed.
DC to DC converters are commonplace and have similar efficiencies for one very simple reason - they too use switchmode power supply circuitry. Basically, the first thing an AC switchmode power supply does is rectify the AC to DC, then the rest is pretty much the same as a DC to DC one.
Oh, and solar inverters are also very efficient. Sure, going direct DC to DC will be a little more efficient, but unlikely to be anything like the boost being claimed. Think about it. The AC to DC charger is not much different to the DC to DC charger. The only real difference is the elimination of the inverter which is generally around 95% efficient. You'll save 5%.
If you want to feed the grid, you'll need an inverter. If you want to also DC feed your car, you'll need a switch to swap between them. If you don't feed the grid, you'll have nowhere to put all that lovely sunshine power if you're driving your car instead. So, I dunno, this seems to violate the KISS principle.
@@jamesvandamme7786, the other thing to remember is that the charger is actually in the car. The device on the wall in your garage is called a charger but really isn't. It talks to the charger and is instructed when to switch on and off.
Yes, you still need an inverter to supply your house whether it is from the solar panels (assuming the car charging leave any power left) or the car battery. I don't really think this is more complex but by the same token, it's not less complex either. It doesn't save much and you really need to look at the whole picture.
Is it better to run your house on solar during the day and charge the from AC overnight? Asuming your car is home during the day while you are at work, you'll be charging the car on solar and running the house on mains power during the peak rate period. Alternative, you could be running your house on solar during the peak rate and charging your car at the cheaper night rate. From an economic standpoint, this DC charging solution looks unnecessarily expensive.
Wrong wrong wrong. Give me just 2 or 3kW of solar power, I leave an EV plugged in all daynearly every day. That's 10 to 15 kWh per day, enough to drive 40 mi. Or more. A fairly modest rooftop array. A lot of people have 6 or 10 kW arrays. I mean i do work at home but drive each day on errands . My wife commutes but could alternate cars each day. Our combined average daily is probably only 40 mi, so that small array could actually fully power our 2 cars. It's an unusual use case yes but not unheard of to have cars parked at home during the day. The nice thing is this could be very simple, no inverter no batteries, independent no grid tie no power co approval, cut your electric bill in half maybe.
Ive been charging my ebike by solar for over 5 years now using panels to a dcdc boost converter. At 95% efficiency its about twice as efficient as going through an inverter and ebike mains charger.
Is there a Slow EV DC charge standard? doesn't need to eb quick for me, its the efficiency gains of then getting home battery and solar PV; if i plug into the car it just becomes a place I store energy at home and a place i can draw from at peak times / If there was a power cut. Just feels like a missing piece where an Internal invertor only then provide power into the AC house, and the DC battery and DC PV can charge the DC Car?
ive got 36 pv panels w 11.5 MV now DC to AC grid tied no battry. cost about $25K US. house 43 x 25 ft.
How much in KWh?
What watts each solae panel is?
Makes sense with a side load battery but if you are like me with micro inverters already on my panels this makes no sense if you are doing a full home conversion and making your lighting low voltage leds running on dc then yes this works. Savings from dc to dc charging works but dc optimizers have been faulty but if they iron that out that can easily replace micro inverters. Less losses the better through inversions.
Enphase and Wallbox Quantum2 , others (Franklin Power (San Francisco, CA) ) are moving toward V2G/V3h Support and their products are really interesting. Looking forward to meet ya Sam ! Thx for the great reports, all the best to your family + treatment success for Shanna. I wish the utility vendors would get their nose out of their customer's business, if I want to pay to have 60Kw for my house and garage for solar and battery, why can't I ?
If you're grid connected, you may kill your neighbours. Solar panels can be an eyesore, depends on bylaws.
@joepolaris. Perhaps because your wiring , panel to street can only handle 240volts times 200amps ,as is common in US residential.
AC makes changing voltage simple. With DC it is not straight forward.
So I assume raising the output voltage of the panels to that of the car battery is an issue.
I understand they have DC to AC to DC within the unit.
Charging a storage battery bank is not a great issue. In fact yachts etc do so as they only use DC.
Here in Georgia when you go above 10 kw with your solar they tack on a 45.00 monthly penalty and they call it a commercial system.
With most people having to drive to work during the day when DC charging would be best applied, I see this application being more for commercial use from businesses where people are actually parked during the day. Let's hope semi-fast DC charging could one day become the norm however instead of the much slower AC charging.
This is re-badged Chinese tech. Systems of this type have been on sale for more than two years in China.
It gets everybody here (this thread) a thumbs up from me.
Many people under this video have stated this fact, The Chinese has been doing this for a while.
Everybody knows how China doesn't recognize patents. I guess this is the Western version of not recognized Chinese innovation.
By acting like this is a brand-new product to hit the market.
I wonder if it will work with nissan Leafs for BiDirectional since the leaf is BiDirectional capable
This needn't be limited to only when the sun is out. If a house has a battery pack, the charger could connect to that. At that point, the charger starts to become like an all-in-one inverter product. (I'm hoping all-in-one inverter products can be called "PPCs"--Private Power Controllers--to makes us think of them as cheap commodity industry-standard-architecture products like PCs, because they are becoming standardized commodities based on standard 48V battery modules and PV modules which are already very standardized.) The PPC vendors could start including car chargers that will offer DC charging but automatically switch to AC when the home battery drops below the set minimum and the PPC has to switch to grid or generator. I mean, they already have the power electronics to do it, it's just a matter of programming the mandated CCS2 protocol and connecting the connector (be it CCS or NACS). Having a separate box for home DC charging when you already have a PPC is duplication of expensive metal and power electronics.
The PPC vendors, hungry and industrious as they have proven themselves, will likely try this--it's a huge and growing market. When you get your PPC, you could also get a charger! And get a charger that delivers more of your precious private harvested energy potentially way faster with more peak power than any other home charger!
depending on the price I think it's worthwile for anyone with a medium sized PV array ~4kW because while yes you are not going to charge even as fast as AC charging it's just more efficent so your not wasting energy inverting to AC, and if it's bi directional meaning you can power your home off the car battery, it could mean that you only need a 5kWh home battery to collect solar power because you car has like 50 - 75kWh in it, f*** even plug in hybrids with 50 miles range have batteries in the ~10kWh of capacity, so being able to use your EV/Hybrid as a house battery would reduce the cost of the system.
Wondering if this charger can be hooked up with Tesla power wall? Currently it goes from dc to dc into PW, if it could go straight into the car it would be great savings on the efficiency! Especially in the mid summer when it’s peak energy, and power would go to the energy company anyway getting only a few cents on the dollar in return that is rather get into the car!
sorry to burst your bubble but the chineese have had this for years, nothing new here dude. we have a 30 kw dc dc charger , chineese off course. really nothing special about the dc/dc part as any switch mode charger turns the a/c into d/c on first step, so all chargers are pretty much dc/dc chargers.
Chinese!! How long will it last.
Charles this is the 1st ever I ever heard of it.
I don't doubt you.
@@glenngogogo how long has your iPhone lasted, if you have one?
@glenngogogo I guess This will last a long time since China has been doing it for a long time.
Many people under this video have stated the fact, The Chinese have been doing this for a while.
Everybody knows how China doesn't recognize #Patents.
I guess this is the Western version of not recognizing Chinese innovation.
*"By acting like this is a brand-new product to hit the market"* . 🤔
@@glenngogogo probably a long time a lot of products out of China are very well made these days. Granted they also make some shit stuff as well.
This is a big thing for me. I got solar panel at home an just bought an ev. I have done research for having Ev charger at home. It is expensive and also loses because converts Dc from solar to Ac and to Dc to the car. hopefully there is an installer that can do direct from Solar to my EV - DC to DC. DC Coupling.
What should be talked about is that Victorian allows solar batteries to be charged and discharged but it's not yet legal (or illegal for that matter) to use ev batteries to charged and discharged. When can we get bidirectional chargers and when will it be cheaper....
good
I actually think it's perfect for remote charging or off highway systems . Guessing at this stage not cheap though lol
The most expensive part right now would be the electronics in between the solar panels and the car. That should quickly change with scale.
15KW it will be over 30 panels, not 20. Maybe future solar panels but not current common ~400-450W ones.
Has there been any updates to this? Seemed like several companies were about to launch products like this then nothing
Hello my friend...
A solution in search of a problem.
LoL
Do you read the comments?
The problem is a bit more complicated than first appears. Cars run on DC but everything in your home/office runs on AC so neither form is ideal. Also, EVs are often in use while solar energy is being generated.
Correction, cars run on AC. It's the battery that provides DC
@@MegaWilderness I meant EVs not ICE.
That is why you install storage.
@@icosthop9998 That is why people buy panels with microinverters which are 95% efficient, and sell power to the grid, and when at home with the car, plug into the grid. This company overstates the inefficiencies and understates the complexity. If your load always matches your source, it works great. If you're not charging your car, you're wasting sunshine unless you can feed the grid or store it somewhere.
@@jamesvandamme7786
Very Good and TY 🙂
So will this allow me to use my EV to supply my house when the demand outstrips the solar supply and the home power wall is out of charge?
Will the rooftop solar system handle Level 2 charging?
How many KWs of panels would you need to make this viable?
Anything past 10kw should be able to make 40kw per day. The biggest thing is batteries would be highly recommended
What are some of the more reputable companies expert in this implementation?
I believe solar edge has this as well
20 panels? Current high end panels are around 400 watts these days. 15kW is about 37 panels at maximum irradiance, which only occurs for a couple of hours each day. This is exciting. I've been thinking, and looking, for such a solution for years now, and the closest thing to higher efficiency has been Myenergi products. Devil is in the details however. Older PV installation paralleled the panels to a low voltage output of around 48 to 60 volts. Newer installations have gone with the benefits of high voltage serial connected panels to create strings of 400 to 500 volts or so. There is no standard, but higher voltage is generally better. This device would have to be tolerant of a huge range of DC input. It can certainly be done, and I am intrigued enough to research it.
If we combine a battery storage, where we save the DC from the PV solar cells, and then use this storage power directly to charge the car with DC, then it would be a win-win, right?
You can also store energy as heat in a tank-type water heater. Power up the water heater after the EV is charged or while the EV is out and about. Electric baseboard heaters for space heat also work well as a diversion load. Water heater and baseboard heaters work fine on DC though the switches in them do NOT. Need solid state relays or switch them on as part of the controller.
You actually do not even need a "charger" if the panels are connected in series to properly match the battery voltage. Just might want to monitor and not overcharge.
How much is the DC Fast Charger
I'm not sure I would really call it ingenious. It's basically just directly powering your car from a battery or cells directly instead of using an inverter, but this will never be as cheap as the alternative. This means it will carry high power DC which is actually poorly taught to home electrical workers so you'd need specialists to install it. Though I guess if you're going to get solar backup you likely were paying for that already.
Other downside is that's an outlet that's literally only useable for your car. Normal 240V outlets can at least be used to also power tools if you need it but a DC line would also need inverters.
Plus this necessitates a new BMS for any EV to use it. No EV on the market could utilize this without modifications as they just aren't made for it. Not even those with existing V2L or V2H. We already have issues with EVs adding just normal V2L, this seems like an extra difficulty as now there's also the fight for DC or AC output.
Well there are several systems available for several years already, like solar-edge
OK, did some research, those systems might require grid connection to operate.. what about this one?
another blow to microinverters and Enphase. Tesla should be doing this type of product. conversion is lossy, I believe it is around 92-94% efficiency. You double the loss as there;s two conversions, Solar Panel to AC then AC to DC inside the car. However, the company Enteligent should make a more centralized all-in one product almost like a Powerwall as EV charging is the most power hungry in a typical residence and the electronic/electric components are reused or avoid redundant components depending on operation mode.
Great for apt buildings.
Allot of are electronics runs off dc . So you have to convert ac to DC which is inefficient . Now converting your DC solar to ac using an inverter wastes quite a bit of energy . This is why off grid houses would be better to use DC devices and appliances . Basically a DC house . As I suggested most electronics runs off dc already . The RV industry already has DC appliances
Why can’t you have a big battery bank say 20kwh, charge it with solar panels for say 1 week or whatever time. Then plug in dc from battery to vehicle using some type of device/adaptor using your vehicles L3 plug. This way you are not wasting energy converting to AC then back to DC? What am I missing here. Is the limitation the vehicle connector? So what if you don’t get blazing fast speeds, can you not DC from battery bank to car direct? What is the limitation to use batteries at home and power that just on solar alone?
Surely if the Thai cancer treatment worked on Stage 4 cancer it would be used in cancer treatments globally?
Still, I hope it works for Shanna.
I don’t think there is any guarantees for Shanna. As someone who’s been through a less extreme but similar experience with my wife all I know is having someone look after you who thinks there’s a chance is better than having someone who doesn’t. Or in the Vikings case, having someone who doesn’t even want to try !
Theoretically yes. But this home system is isolated from the grid and will end up with 2 systems for other uses.
Ideal would be a setting to charge no faster than the solar supply. How hard can it be to use only the energy coming off the roof?
It’s rarely the case that the owner needs it to charge faster at home. What’s the rush?
If the car spends all day parked at work, then that’s where this system needs to be.
Just as a small correction Fronius inverters as with others are 95 to 98% when converting DC to AC. I don't really see a massive benefit to the product at this stage given the amount of panels required.
The advantage is that no grid connection is needed for this system. It will be even better when they divert surplus PV electricity to a water heater or to space heat, which are also Not connected to the grid. Remember, 16 of the states in the US do Not allow solar to be connected to the grid. With this system, it's nobody's business that one has solar on their house.
20 panels = 15kw? That would mean 750w panels operating at full capacity. Most panels are way under that and rarely churn out name plate capacity.
Yep ! I have 50 panels and if they were working at 100%, which is impossible, they would generate 12.5KW
I have a 9.21kw system on my roof and quite often at around 1-2pm in mid summer my system outputs 9kw for close to 1 hr, so that is pretty dang close to nameplate output minus efficiency loses. Most of my panels are new 500W Longi mono's, plus an 11 year old smaller array of 190W Tianwei mono's. The older panels have no noticeable decline in production. Panels are growing bigger every year. Larger output per panel makes big gains in cost efficiencies, but aren't kind to old electricians like me...
I don't understand why this would be bidirectional. You can't charge solar panels. Most solar chargers use DC to charge batteries. DC-DC chargers are well known. Most people don't leave their cars at home when they go to work. Nothing to see here.
This isn’t for installs like mine. I use Enphase micro inverters which means 240 V AC comes down from my roof. Effectively micro inverters make panels output AC current. Many newer systems are installed this way. And yes not only would it require a massive solar array but it would suck all the power from a 10 KW array leaving the home on grid power. This I predict will be a niche product. Can a system like mine be converted to output both AC & DC? Yes very easy on paper, would need to be completely rewired which would double the wire. Then unless DIY the labor would be nearly equal to the initial installation labor cost. And this would not solve the problem of robbing all power from my home. It would be just as cheap to double my panels. But if I worked a day job the car would not even be home.
I see this as a niche product that works very well for a small number of installations .
I believe home light should be dc. That would save a lot of energy transforming it to AC then back to DC which most home lights are not LED
Not quite the Worlds first. China's first all DC micro-grid EV charging station integrated battery detection and PV energy storage system is rapidly rolling out across the country. It's all positive.
I believe the Electric Viking talked of the future changes in batteries, solar and everything else. You were right about everything else. Congratulations on another spot on prediction.
All you need is a rectifier most cars use them on there alternators it's more efficient than the old generator.
Um, no. Alternators are controlled in current output by varying the field winding current. You can't do that on a solar array, you have whatever voltage it feels like putting out. The DC to DC converter's job is to change that into the voltage the load wants. It chops it into varying length pulses and runs it through a transformer at high frequency (to reduce the size) then rectifies the output.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Solar arrays have a different setup but they still need the P & N junctions. Now for the alternator what does current control last time I built a rectifier I never put in any current control.
@@BamBam-uf4yi There's no control on the output of an alternator, just diodes which change AC to DC. You could control the output that way but it would take large, expensive high power transistors. The output of an alternator is controlled by varying the field winding current with a lower powered transistor driven by a feedback loop. The loop samples the battery voltage and in some cases the ambient temperature to maintain the proper battery voltage. So it's a magnetic amplifier.
I would love a home dc to dc. My i3 gets 80% in 30 minutes, but I only know of one publicly available in Chicago. Dreams come true, if you wait long enough!
The bigges question is, how much does it cost?
Uhm interesting video except it doesn't mention the actual company link anywhere in the video notes?
Why not not incorporate the EV into the Home solar setup as the storage battery? No more Powerwall cause you already got one! Your driving it!
I already have a microinverter system looks like that would be problematic.
A DC/DC converter hopefully with peek power tracking. Changes panel DC to high frequency AC then back to a high voltage DC current source to charge the battery, maybe 95% efficiency. Just takes battery charge and discharge losses out of the picture.
In going from DC to DC you have to equalize voltages. The solar voltage may be higher or lower than the battery voltage. This is typically done by storing energy in an inductor. The voltage across the inductor is used to make up the difference. But to control this inductor voltage you need to turn the current going into and/or out of the inductor on and off. From the solar panels you use MPPT (Maximum Power Point Transfer) to set this current. It adjusts current and voltage from the panel to its maximum wattage (i.e. current * voltage).
A battery is a store of Coulombs. A Coulomb is an Amp-Second. You must raise the voltage across the battery to a level delivering the maximum number of amp-seconds (i.e coulombs) the battery can accept. It's like a fire hose where coulombs are the water. The voltage is the water pressure.
All this switching can be done very efficiently. However limits on the solar panels and/or the battery may result in some dead time. This is a period when the solar has to be turned off because too much energy is in the inductor. Or the battery has to be turned off because the inductor voltage is too high. This looks like a loss.
If you have a separate battery bank that extra energy can be directed there. If not, it's lost.
20 solar panels for 15kw!!! Most panels are 400watts or thereabouts - so that is nearer 40 panels … how much roof space do you have?
Explain the difference in this and a DC to DC charger in an RV system
This one is the 'world's first', the one you have been using in your RV for years is not... lol
sorry to burst your bubble but the Chinese have had this for years, nothing new here dude. we have a 30 kw dc dc charger , Chinese off course. really nothing special about the dc/dc part as any switch mode charger turns the a/c into d/c on first step, so all chargers are pretty much dc/dc chargers. Also modern chargers for cars etc use a H bridge circuit which by design is bi directional, its basically choice whether you want to use this aspect off the design or not, but its certainly nothing special. No doubt the Americans will be trying to patented it as their invention doing their usual monopoly control
Doesn't matter because except for white US Americans, Australians and Western Europeans the world gives a shit about patents and copyright.
What brand mate
Op, virtually all chargers make DC output from AC input. The poibt of this invention is that is is more efficient by not needing the conversion
@@johnanon658 Thanks, because I was wondering if I was the only one not making sense of this rant.
Hi, what's the model number of the 30kw dc-dc charger please?
Solar panels have micro inverters on them now to convert dc to ac so this system can’t be used
Micro inverters are normally optional. Some solar inverters are able to receive AC and DC from panels, Sol-Ark for example. I plan to have AC panels on my shed and DC panels on my garage and have a small battery bank and use my 64k car as emergency backup.
This technology is moving really fast!
What would be the comparison over the Tesla's powerwall?
Great question if Sam would answer.
I would like to know the answer myself.
But #He probably has moved on to the next video.
DC-to-DC is definitely a lot more efficient. But this could be a bit of a hard sell anyway. Many solar installations these days are AC-coupled (use micro-inverters). A home with a battery system would be able to benefit but a home without a battery system... maybe not so much.
Its not the firat. There have been others bjt there was no real market for them so they stopped making them. Solaredge was one. Still no real market. Very limited where they could be used.
Is it time that Edison finally wins the battle against Tesla and our houses move to DC?