Getting DSD out of a computer typically happens through the USB port. Is this the only /best way to extract it for playback? Check out the Octave library HTTP://octaverecords.com
You do also have network streamers, which send bit-perfect dsd (dsf files) through an ethernet cable from a PC or Nas which supports the file (using linux based OS). The issue there may be buffering and respectively gapless playback.
I can play downloaded DSD files on my P.C. using Media Player Classic type BE. (MPC-BE) I like the idea of USB rather than mechanical optical drives because of the freedom from moving parts.
Most recently, the videos seem to be trimmed of in the beginning. I’m not getting the full question asked. Thanks for the post anyway, Paul. I was using USB via a MacBook to my GCD, but it produced some overwhelming midrange frequencies. I upgraded to a dedicated music streamer-server. I still wonder if the USB/computer approach could have been improved upon. I just tired of the prospects of experimenting with multiple USB cables or numerous little wired boxes that all did one separate thing.
My experience is that USB from a computer is the worst format, regardless of operating system. Sending the output over ethernet to a bridge that converts to whatever your DAC accepts is much better. Even a modest Allo bridge on a Raspberry Pi will sound better than pretty much any USB from PC to DAC. Even a streamer that outputs on USB will benefit greatly from a USB "reclocker" or bridge. My current set up is i9 based server running Debian Server, Roon Core, and HQPlayer to a Sonore Optical Rendu via optical ethernet, to a Matrix X-SPDIF 2 via USB to a Matrix Audio Element-X via I2s.
@@joshua43214 I figured as much. I'm relatively new to high-end audio and I've noticed no shortage of discussion of components that tie the computer in with the contributors' stereos. Your description sounds spot-on by comparison.
Paull it was on this vid I ment to comment don't forget though that the Creative SoundBlaster AE 7 and AE9 sound cards Creative Lab say can decode at least DSD 64 witch is 2.8 megahurtz.
Paul my understanding that the biggest issue with USB is that there is the possibility of noise being passed to the DAC. On the plus side if you have a good DAC with a better clock than the source, USB is the only method that allows the DAC to use it's clock instead of the source. So technically wouldn't a USB connection that is galvanically isolated be the best sounding connection ?
Filling them on time for proper playback is a must especially with dsd. Usually with wired or 5ghz wifi connection is not an issue. The issue is with gapless playback, requiring the system to pre-buffer the next file too, as otherwise you get a 3-4 sec pause between songs. As you can imagine this kind of ruins the flow of the music, especially for something like dark side of the moon. This is why I started merging dsd files and listening to them like a vinyl record.
I wonder why someone that really wants DSD doesn’t just go and do the work and I don’t know adds native DSD output to Linux or something. If you repurpose the HDMI bitstreaming stuff you can probably already do most of it, that also just takes random binary data and stuffs it down the audio data pipeline in HDMI.
Plus no physical media in dsd, for those who want to own their music. Yes there's SACD, but how many of those are out there and how many of those are of any interest...
@HD OM Yes it's not a few hundred for sure. But how many of those are of the kind of music someone listens to and willing to buy. 2-3 thousand titles means 50 to a 100 titles of real interest. I speculate here of course, but at least for me, its even less. Too much classical and commercial-mainstream pop rock. Not for me and I bet for way too many people too. Also, with reference to the latter genre, most people into it, already have them in this format or the other and find it excessive to buy them again for sometimes 1/2 or even double the price. Can't find them everywhere too. For way too many people they can only get them online. Too many avoid the fuzz.
how about dsd over hdmi? Im just found a good deal on a older denon blu ray player that does dsd/sacd with hdmi and a RJ45 for clock correction. Im making my own dsd dvds via super author and Philips dst encoder. I've made about 20 different albums like this and will be testing them this week. I want to compare the audio this way and via the analog outputs of the player. I think I'd like this setup since I like two channel listening but as well 5.1 and 7.1 for movies.
@2:49 "...computers don't, can't, deal with DSD, and they have to be put into sheep's clothing and sent through as though they were PCM and with few exceptions that's pretty much the rule of thumb". Paul, DSD is a file, made up of zeros and ones, the same as any and every other file on your computer. How that file is formatted is the issue. For example, you can have an Excel file. But you cannot open that Excel file with Minesweeper. You cannot open an Adobe PDF file with Skype. If someone sent you a ".kdbx" file, you could draw the conclusion that computers don't, can't, deal with .kdbx files. Then, after you install "keepass", the .kdbx file suddenly becomes child's play for your computer. Due to DSD being uncommon across the globe for music lovers, and that nearly no one uses it, there is a dearth of applications that support the DSD format. That is the issue with DSD -- not that computers don't or can't deal with DSD. I am not suggesting the DSD is a bad format. It could be the best thing since sliced bread. But if nearly no one uses sliced bread, then no one will design toasters for the bread that nearly no one is using. Write the code that for a client / server relationship to share DSD data, and it will be point and click like any other data file on your computer. It seems that the quick work-around for getting DSD to work with DACs that do not natively support DSD is software that puts a PCM wrapper around the file. If DSD becomes a popular file format, then software will surface all over the place that supports DSD. Cheers!
Dsd is quickly gaining popularity. Many is supporting it now like: foobar2000 native output via asio or dop, aimp but it's bad choice for dsd or any hi-res format, jriver and many others. So it's not a question can your pc play dsd just wich software you chouse.
You mention "server". Can DSD be sent across an ethernet network? Like from a central file/media server? Could a DoP be used? Is there a current M-Bone?
Yes, there are a number of softwares that can do this. HQPlayer being the best IMO. To be sure we are on the same page, we are talking about an actual server, not a general purpose PC? As in no user interface other than a command prompt window, and probably running a headless version of Linux, or possibly Windows Server (Mac does not have a Mac Server OS, it would use Linux). If you are familiar with the environment, it will be a modest challenge, if you are not familiar, it will lead you to understand in a visceral way why some people are driven to commit mass murder in random places. That said, getting a Linux Server (Debian 10 is probably the easiest) with Roon Core up and running is not difficult. Adding HQPlayer is more of a challenge, and you will get little support from the publisher because he markets to professionals. Roon is an extremely good music player (better than JRiver for example), so you would be happy with it. Grab an old computer, practice some Google Fu and give it a shot. If you can get it going, and like it, you can build a better server.
Um, did you say "least brain damage" as a method? I would think that sending DSD over USB or any other serial format would be a problem for audiophiles. The original clocking is lost and has to be recreated at the other end. And I wonder how good the initial conversion is and how it clocks the DSD stream. If it works well and sounds great, then it pokes holes in the theory that PCM is not as good as DSD and something gets lost when PCM is used because apparently what was once lost is now found.
If your DAC has a good clock and a well insulated Ethernet port, that's the way to go. It's a bitstream, not a musical signal. An unshielded cat 5 or cat 6 ethernet cable (no fancy brands, just 20$) will deliver a bit perfect stream and the DAC will know what to do with it :-)
You do also have network streamers, which send bit-perfect dsd (dsf files) through an ethernet cable from a PC or Nas which supports the file (using linux based OS). The issue there may be buffering and respectively gapless playback.
I can play downloaded DSD files on my P.C. using Media Player Classic type BE. (MPC-BE)
I like the idea of USB rather than mechanical optical drives because of the freedom from moving parts.
Most recently, the videos seem to be trimmed of in the beginning. I’m not getting the full question asked. Thanks for the post anyway, Paul. I was using USB via a MacBook to my GCD, but it produced some overwhelming midrange frequencies. I upgraded to a dedicated music streamer-server. I still wonder if the USB/computer approach could have been improved upon. I just tired of the prospects of experimenting with multiple USB cables or numerous little wired boxes that all did one separate thing.
My experience is that USB from a computer is the worst format, regardless of operating system. Sending the output over ethernet to a bridge that converts to whatever your DAC accepts is much better.
Even a modest Allo bridge on a Raspberry Pi will sound better than pretty much any USB from PC to DAC. Even a streamer that outputs on USB will benefit greatly from a USB "reclocker" or bridge.
My current set up is i9 based server running Debian Server, Roon Core, and HQPlayer to a Sonore Optical Rendu via optical ethernet, to a Matrix X-SPDIF 2 via USB to a Matrix Audio Element-X via I2s.
@@joshua43214 I figured as much. I'm relatively new to high-end audio and I've noticed no shortage of discussion of components that tie the computer in with the contributors' stereos. Your description sounds spot-on by comparison.
Paull it was on this vid I ment to comment don't forget though that the Creative SoundBlaster AE 7 and AE9 sound cards Creative Lab say can decode at least DSD 64 witch is 2.8 megahurtz.
Paul my understanding that the biggest issue with USB is that there is the possibility of noise being passed to the DAC. On the plus side if you have a good DAC with a better clock than the source, USB is the only method that allows the DAC to use it's clock instead of the source. So technically wouldn't a USB connection that is galvanically isolated be the best sounding connection ?
Absolute certainty of noise being passed to the DAC. Exactly. DSD through an Ethernet connection is great.
Nice
I thought it was only needed that the buffers were filled on time to have a proper reproduction.
Filling them on time for proper playback is a must especially with dsd. Usually with wired or 5ghz wifi connection is not an issue. The issue is with gapless playback, requiring the system to pre-buffer the next file too, as otherwise you get a 3-4 sec pause between songs. As you can imagine this kind of ruins the flow of the music, especially for something like dark side of the moon. This is why I started merging dsd files and listening to them like a vinyl record.
@@shs747 This has nothing to do with the interconnect, though.
@@shs747 3-4 seconds? On a computer from the 1990s and the frankly my home server is running since 2011 365/24
I wonder why someone that really wants DSD doesn’t just go and do the work and I don’t know adds native DSD output to Linux or something. If you repurpose the HDMI bitstreaming stuff you can probably already do most of it, that also just takes random binary data and stuffs it down the audio data pipeline in HDMI.
After viewing your videos and reading what others have experienced, it sounds like DSD is more trouble than it’s worth.
Also the amount of music available in dsd, is like a drop in the ocean, compared to other formats.
Plus no physical media in dsd, for those who want to own their music. Yes there's SACD, but how many of those are out there and how many of those are of any interest...
@HD OM Yes it's not a few hundred for sure. But how many of those are of the kind of music someone listens to and willing to buy. 2-3 thousand titles means 50 to a 100 titles of real interest. I speculate here of course, but at least for me, its even less. Too much classical and commercial-mainstream pop rock. Not for me and I bet for way too many people too. Also, with reference to the latter genre, most people into it, already have them in this format or the other and find it excessive to buy them again for sometimes 1/2 or even double the price. Can't find them everywhere too. For way too many people they can only get them online. Too many avoid the fuzz.
@HD OM I can only say its great you can find music you like, in dsd.
how about dsd over hdmi? Im just found a good deal on a older denon blu ray player that does dsd/sacd with hdmi and a RJ45 for clock correction. Im making my own dsd dvds via super author and Philips dst encoder. I've made about 20 different albums like this and will be testing them this week. I want to compare the audio this way and via the analog outputs of the player.
I think I'd like this setup since I like two channel listening but as well 5.1 and 7.1 for movies.
@2:49 "...computers don't, can't, deal with DSD, and they have to be put into sheep's clothing and sent through as though they were PCM and with few exceptions that's pretty much the rule of thumb".
Paul, DSD is a file, made up of zeros and ones, the same as any and every other file on your computer. How that file is formatted is the issue.
For example, you can have an Excel file. But you cannot open that Excel file with Minesweeper.
You cannot open an Adobe PDF file with Skype.
If someone sent you a ".kdbx" file, you could draw the conclusion that computers don't, can't, deal with .kdbx files.
Then, after you install "keepass", the .kdbx file suddenly becomes child's play for your computer.
Due to DSD being uncommon across the globe for music lovers, and that nearly no one uses it, there is a dearth of applications that support the DSD format.
That is the issue with DSD -- not that computers don't or can't deal with DSD.
I am not suggesting the DSD is a bad format. It could be the best thing since sliced bread. But if nearly no one uses sliced bread, then no one will design toasters for the bread that nearly no one is using.
Write the code that for a client / server relationship to share DSD data, and it will be point and click like any other data file on your computer.
It seems that the quick work-around for getting DSD to work with DACs that do not natively support DSD is software that puts a PCM wrapper around the file.
If DSD becomes a popular file format, then software will surface all over the place that supports DSD.
Cheers!
Dsd is quickly gaining popularity. Many is supporting it now like: foobar2000 native output via asio or dop, aimp but it's bad choice for dsd or any hi-res format, jriver and many others. So it's not a question can your pc play dsd just wich software you chouse.
Hey Paul, I use my iMac with Audirvana via ethernet to send DSD to my Direct Stream DAC Senior. How would you rank that technique for sound quality?
You mention "server". Can DSD be sent across an ethernet network? Like from a central file/media server? Could a DoP be used? Is there a current M-Bone?
Yes, there are a number of softwares that can do this. HQPlayer being the best IMO.
To be sure we are on the same page, we are talking about an actual server, not a general purpose PC? As in no user interface other than a command prompt window, and probably running a headless version of Linux, or possibly Windows Server (Mac does not have a Mac Server OS, it would use Linux).
If you are familiar with the environment, it will be a modest challenge, if you are not familiar, it will lead you to understand in a visceral way why some people are driven to commit mass murder in random places.
That said, getting a Linux Server (Debian 10 is probably the easiest) with Roon Core up and running is not difficult. Adding HQPlayer is more of a challenge, and you will get little support from the publisher because he markets to professionals. Roon is an extremely good music player (better than JRiver for example), so you would be happy with it.
Grab an old computer, practice some Google Fu and give it a shot. If you can get it going, and like it, you can build a better server.
How about Dante?
I've been using ASIO to natively play DSD (dff, dsf) files for many years. DOP is akin to a condom in comparison.....
Paul there is no money in DACs my friend...i know there are bad DACs out there...but there is no money in DACs! ;))
Um, did you say "least brain damage" as a method? I would think that sending DSD over USB or any other serial format would be a problem for audiophiles. The original clocking is lost and has to be recreated at the other end. And I wonder how good the initial conversion is and how it clocks the DSD stream. If it works well and sounds great, then it pokes holes in the theory that PCM is not as good as DSD and something gets lost when PCM is used because apparently what was once lost is now found.
If your DAC has a good clock and a well insulated Ethernet port, that's the way to go. It's a bitstream, not a musical signal. An unshielded cat 5 or cat 6 ethernet cable (no fancy brands, just 20$) will deliver a bit perfect stream and the DAC will know what to do with it :-)
@@DaveJ6515 Um, that's not DSD though.
You should take a second to review and modify the video thumbnails