I am Australian we have the union jack in the left hand corner of our flag do.s that mean that the dragon has to be on that to or maybe we should change our flag with a kangaroo and a koala in the top left hand corner
@@therespectedlex9794 I'd agree, but the st David's cross just isn't nearly as popular as the st George's, st Andrew's, or st Patrick's crosses. Mayne using the green and white background of the Welsh flag could be better
@@therespectedlex9794 I have seen yellow in some mockup flags and I guess that could work as the FAW have gone back to a yellow kit. However, the other countries have representation of both colours of their crosses on the flag, though they all kind of share the white. Putting just 1 colour might look inferior, and putting black in doesn't seem like it would look nice. Also, I'm actually canadian instead of welsh, but I ok with being welsh for the day lol
I think the dragon should be reincorporated into the coat of arms, so there is at least some representation for Wales in our national symbols. Considering that Scotland and (Northern) Ireland already have representation on the Union Flag, at least this compromise would be fair. I'm not sure what would replace the current supporting animals though, perhaps the dragon could be curled up on the bottom behind the motto? Or the dragon could replace the lion, and the lion is put upon the crown at the top?
I’m not sure what design the original petitioners wanted, I assume they would want a dragon on the shield and that that would replace one of the two English lion sections
I've binged all of your videos over the past few days. No personal connection to Wales, just a lover of learning about obscure historical periods. Just wow! What a treasure trove of history, correcting misinformation, and cheeky bits of humor all combined into amazing videos. Thank you for all your hard work, and I look forward to seeing what you cover next!
Having just discovered your entertaining and informative channel I, as a proud 'Cymro' living in Oxford, have immediately subscribed. Many thanks for all your diligent research in producing these fascinating episodes!
I thought that the white in the union jack represented Wales. The two reds going for england and Ireland, the blue for Scotland and the white coming from the Welsh flag. I can see I was totally wrong and this video was great, thank you for clarifying years of wrong guesses from my part lol
The white you're referring to was specifically to represent Scotland's white cross so that the blue was not confused for a meaningless background color. That's why it's split down the center line with the Irish cross.
Both flags are great and combining them in any form would sully both. There is also a Scottish version of the Union Jack without the Irish addition but it looks more like an anti-Iceland flag unfortunately.
@@daidavies90 One of the most unique and visually interesting flag designs on the planet whilst still being aesthetically pleasing. That's pretty hard to do and does indeed make it a very well designed flag
In fact, there is a secondary flag for Wales, which follows the pattern of other countries in the United Kingdom. It's the "Flag of Saint David", which is almost the same as the flag of England, except that the cross is yellow and the background is black. This flag is even present on the Welsh capital's football club badge! Perhaps they should adopt that cross on the flag of the United Kingdom, or at least on the coat of arms perhaps.
@@StumpfForFreedom100% agree. Trying to incorporate yellow, black, or both into the current Union Jack simply DOES NOT work. Frankly, I've yet to see a Union Jack redesign that features standard Welsh colors or symbols in an elegant and pleasing way.
@@irishjet2687 True, but they could definitely change the coat of arms just by replacing one of the quadrants with english lion with a dragon. Maybe then we could even get away with adding the coat of arms onto the union Jack like with the Spanish and Portuguese flags, but maybe thay would look bad idk
If Scotland achieves independence then a new flag could replace the blue of St Andrews saltire with the black of St David's flag with the St Patrick's saltire bounded by yellow instead of white. It could then even be interpreted as also incorporating the St Piran cross for Kernow!
@@DorgpoopThe Union flag has the advantage of simplicity together with absence of figures, so is easy to create, and easy to recognise, even in black and white.
I’m not welsh. So my reasonings for wanting the red dragon on the Union Jack is very simple. Dragons are cool, flags are cool. So a flag with a dragon would only be cooler
@@PD-jj4fo Im Welsh but I think Welsh independence from Britain would be awful, i dont want to live in a separate country from Britain. Wales in British
This clip has explained the historical reasons why Wales isn't represented on the Union Jack. But there re also vexillological reasons. The English, the Scottish and the Irish flags have patterns of the same type, which are easily combined into an aesthetically pleasing whole. The Welsh dragon - figurative, and totally dominating the flag - is very difficult to fit into a design of the Union Jack type. It is difficult to envision a red dragon on the Unnion Jack that neither dominates the design unduly, nor disappears into insignificance. The only way I can envision a Welsh element in the Union Jack is by adding some if the Welsh flag's green colour into the cross design.
@@sarahgargani5836Yes, but not only is that not official, the colors don't work well with the pre-exisitng elements of the flag. I used to be pretty active in the r/Vexillology subreddit, and I've seen dozens of attempts to incorporate Welsh symbolism into the Union Jack. I've even seen attempts at a theoretical flag of a Scotland-less and/or Northern Ireland-less United Kingdom. Outside of a complete, start-from-scratch redesign, it either doesn't work or causes the dragon to be the main emphasis of the flag.
"dominates the design unduly," Sure, but is this really an issue? It'd make the Union Jack 100% more awesome. Honestly I think you probably could have it both ways, with a reduced size dragon in the centre. I'll try to make a mock up tomorrow to see how it looks. The only issue might be the red on red, but I think the Dragon's black outline would be enough to make it work well.
My personal favourite idea to incorporate the welsh flag to the union jack was to replace the the bit of the english flag that goes up with a red dragon neck then head. I do geel that it would be a pain to draw so not ideal from that pov but it definitely looked good
I oppose having a direct representation of Wales on the Union Flag, as there is no visually appealing way to do so (with either the Red Dragon or St David’s Cross). However, I do support representing Wales on the Royal Coat of Arms by replacing the bottom-right quadrant with the arms of Prince Llywelyn the Great.
@@Knappa22 technically not the same Monarchy that we have today. I believe that it was the Plantagenets who wiped out Llwelyn and his family. You can't lay the blame on the House of Windsor who are their 4th successors.
I've seen some pleasant ways on ways to add Welsh representation on the UJ with the St. David's Cross by replacing England's red cross with the yellow cross instead and it looks somewhat nice
That should be a no brainer given the population of Wales is much greater than that of Northern Ireland which gets its own representation - ironically based on Irish Nationalism.
The Welsh flag may have only been officially adopted in 1959, but I recall seeing it flown or waved widely in the early 1950s. From my last return visit to Wales in 1975 and from more recent news or documentary footage, most places in Wales fly both flags simultaneously from separate flagpoles, or just fly the Welsh flag if they don't have room for both. As a naturalised Australian now, the only place I fly the Union Jack is in the canton of the Australian 🇦🇺 flag.
I am half Aussie (Scottish MacDonald clan heritage) half English, but I won't fly any flag except the Eureka Flag. My English family has their own tartan and clan too back in England, always wearing the kilt to events.
Hopefully Australia one day takes the Aboriginal flag as national flag. It’s so nice and Australian, and can be cherished by both settlers and original inhabitants. Compare how Canada uses a Canadian symbol as flag instead of a derivative of the British flag.
@@TayT300 American here, never heard of the Eureka Flag! I spent my childhood in the coal mining state of West Virginia, where there have been lots of armed uprising by miners over unfair working conditions. I'm picturing the meme of the two beefy arms clasping hands; AUS on one side, WV on the other, and "Miner Uprisings" in the middle lol
@@bricknolty5478 There's an entry on Wikipedia about the Eureka flag. Basically, it is white cross on a Prussian blue background, with a seven pointed star at the end of each arm of the cross and one in the centre. It is a symbolic representation of the Southern Cross. Having been hijacked by various activist groups over the years, it has accumulated too much political baggage to be considered seriously as a national flag any more. Which is a pity.
@@eilivulv What specifically Australian symbol appears on the Aboriginal flag? What does it symbolise to the nation as a whole. The only flag of any Australian State or Territory that I think is wholly Australian and truly representative of all its people is the Northern Territory flag. Now imagine the Sturt's desert rose replaced by the Federation Star, or a sprig of wattle, as the national flag. ps, What about the Torres Strait Islands flag, which is pretty much flown alongside the Aboriginal flag everywhere these days?
I am Welsh and a number of years ago i had words with an english student. With reference to wales not represented on the union jack. She said wales was because of the red in the flag. I told her the red crosses on the flag was for england and ireland and the blue for scotland. And wales was not represented because it was not counted as an separate country but part of england. She would not have it and kept saying its was because of the red in the flag.
Ireland is no longer part of the uk but six counties of Ireland are still aline to the uk so what you're saying six counties of Ireland which there's thirty two counties in total are entitled to be in uk flag but Wales isn't, do you see where I'm coming from? The six counties of Ireland is not a nation, Ulster is nine counties so you can't use Ulster even because only six of the nine counties are aline to the uk . There's four provinces in Ireland Ulster,connaught,,munster and Leinster
@@Raggman42they werent talked about oughts and entitlements, rather the history. Its historically true that Wales was left out of the Union flag because at the time its counties were administered as parts of England, and that the diagonal red cross was added to represent conquered Ireland. Administrarively after the Union the monarch was King of England, Scotland and Ireland. For fun they added Emperor of India much later
One important detail that’s not mentioned is that the Tudors descended from a prominent Welsh family, so in a sense the Welsh (in the person of Henry VII) conquered England.
Well, according to this logic in 1918 the Germans launched an desperate large offensive against the Germans, which were supported by the Germans after successfully defeating the Germans with their German Allies. (Russias tsar was of German descend and so was the British king, while Austrians are Germans and France descendants from the Francs/Franconians/ Franken which were Germans or Porto Germans.
Yep and basically is half the problem since James I removed it in favor of the unicorn even though he basically has three supporters indeed because of Charles III is also of Hanover, Saxe-Coburg Gotha and Glücksburg orgins he also has a larger variety of animals and other objects in his pedigree but overall he would have to be given authority from the College Of Arms and consent from the UK Parliament if not all Parliaments within the Commonwealth, so overall changing the Royal Coat Of Arms would much more difficult than to just change the Union Jack
The Tudors were a minor branch of the English House of Lancaster and Henry Tudor was legally barred from any claim to the crown by legislation that debarred his ancestors and their descendents (including him) in both the maternal and paternal lines. He was only able to make his tenuous claim to the crown because Edward of Westminster, the last Lancastrian who had an arguably legitimate one, was killed at the Battle of Tewkesbury. If course, none of that mattered in the end because Henry Tudor had a large force of French mercenaries and a traitor in Richard III's army who was willing to change sides at the critical moment.
So much could be added here! Henry of Richmond didn’t actually do anything to ‘win’ his crown, he didn’t put up the funds for the invasion, (that was the French and his mother, a Lancastrian Beaufort), nor did he recruit the Norman mercenaries (who brought the Sweat with them), nor did he strategize, plot with messengers, spies and agents (that was Bray et al), nor did he become involved in any of the actual fighting - he was never formally trained in such martial activities having left the Herbert household probably soon after the execution of the Earl of Pembroke (William Herbert) - he was surrounded by men who were to protect him and the sight of Richard quite literally only feet away from deciding the battle by killing him would have stayed with him his whole life! Whether it was Rhys ap Thomas or another of William Stanley’s men who came from behind and struck down Richard, in the manner of chivalric honor, we will never know, but it saved Richmond’s quaking life. And the Stanleys’ never let H7 forget that he owed everything g to them, and they certainly behaved as if they were king. Read up on their behavior from Bosworth onward - it is not Warwick who should be called ‘Kingmaker’ but the Stanleys, and they owned Henry of Richmond. As to Henry’s parentage, more than a few have speculated - and I refer to academics, not BBC wags, that Edmund Beaufort was his father.
I'd love to see a more in depth history of Welsh flags and crests, as I know the current flag, although only adopted in the 50s, was designed much earlier (according to Wikipedia 1807), and I've heard (though I'm not a historian so I can't verify) that a very similar design was used in the Tudor period on navy vessels. But as well the history of the many dragon crests would be interesting too.
The red dragon flag does originate with the tudors, as Henry VII allegedly carried a red dragon banner into battle, and the white and green are the house colours of the tudors. I would be cautious on Wikipedia's claims though, the quality of Welsh history articles on there are typically very very poor, which I've complained about a few times on here before
For whatever reason, most youtubers can't grasp the concepts of the Kingdom of Ireland, the Kingdom of GB, and the flag difference between the Kingdom of GB and the UK. Great to see you've bucked the trend!
TH-camrs, usually see the world through US centred eyes. The British Isles is a geographical description which includes all of Ireland and the Isle of Man. The United Kingdom is a political entity which includes 6 counties of Northern Island, the Kingdoms of Scotland and England, the Principality of Wales, but the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles are "posessions" of the UK. Regards from Australia.
I’m Welsh. We have our own flag which is one of the most distinctive flags on the planet. Our own flag makes us unique. By not being on the union jack strengthens the fact that we are unique. I don’t want a dragon or any representation on the union jack. I personally think we don’t need it. If we didn’t have the Welsh flag today then I would be singing a different tune.
Diolch for another excellent video! Now I'm looking forward to a video about the origins of the Draig Goch flag... And one on the Kingdom of Powys, too
The Red Dragon of Cadwaladr was taken up as a symbol of the Britons to at least the 7th century, probably dates back earlier to the Roman times, so by far the oldest symbol, at least 600 years before England adopted the cross of St George in the 14th century (prior to that it had been St Edmund).The Green and White background was the symbol of the Tudor family (Henry Tudor became Henry VII in 1485).). The patron saint of Wales is St David, whose flag is a yellow cross on a black background.
I saw someone designed a new flag for the Anglosphere. They had emblems in different places for the countries and "included" Wales by using a White Dragon on a Red Background... quite the mix-up (That represents the Anglo-Saxon settlers not the Welsh fyi).
If we put the Welsh dragon on the flag it would be sp awesome that it would overshadow the rest of the flag! Thats why it's not on there, it's just to god damn cool!
I've never thought of that but that's a really good point Like imagine trying to merge the US, Canada and Mexican flags or Norway, Finland and Sweden into their own flags
@@uckbritley1305 All of them overlap you nob what are you trying to prove by being sarcastic here, its a tough task, it only seems logical because you're used to the final product.
Glad you countered the modern misconception of king>prince. It's long been much murkier than that, and for much of history king and prince were also used interchangeably, by the same people.
Union jack with wales ideas -bottom half has green instead of blue -middle has a dragon (but then it's a centerpiece and Wales isn't the most important part of the UK, definitely the coolest history though) -small dragon at the end of the far left red line (not a huge change, and Wales is in the bottom left corner of England) -Write Llanfairpwllgwyngogerychwryndrobwllantysiliogogogoch on the flag
I’ve seen the idea of the bottom half with green instead of blue before, and personally I don’t like it but it is an interesting idea. Adding a dragon to the flag would be pretty cool looking but as you said it may ironically end up overshadowing the other 3 countries
@@alynwillams4297 I mean as someone who lives in Cardiff and drives all the time, yeah it is. Maybe not up north, but even when i drive up via hay-on-wye there is loads of them
Thank you for another fantastic video!! It'll be interesting to see if anything changes with the union jack as the political landscape of the Union changes. I.e. will Westminster suddenly call for Welsh representation on the flag if Scotland leaves to try and get Wales to stay? Super interesting video!
Not really much chance of Wales leaving the Union. Plaid Cymru support (our equivalent of the SNP) shows that fairly clearly. PC has never called for a referendum for Welsh Independence because they know it would lose, especially now that they have lost a significant amount of their support with Devolution. People should take a look at the Welsh Devolution referendum by the way, it was close, as in really, really close. Less than a percent point close. Welsh Devolution made it through in Wales by the literal skin of its teeth. That was the height of PC's power, a significant proportion of their voter base did not want to leave the Union, they wanted some form of self determination in Wales, and with Devolution they got what they wanted. PC's support tailed off fairly rapidly after that to the point it was below 20% last time I looked.
Just found this channel, and I love it! Wales is the most interesting part of the UK to me, and I always was interested in Britain. Welsh culture is the oldest and language is super beautiful
How can Welsh culture be older than the rest of Britain? Wales is a pretty new creation, research the Brythonic peoples who occupied the western part of mainland Britain.
@@RS__7 You ignore Cornwall and fall into the false idea that Wales somehow managed to never be a part of the Roman Empire. In reality there is no difference between the people of any of the three countries of England, Scotland and Wales as proved by recent DNA studies. Even West Wales was part of both the Roman Empire and the later Norman and previous Saxon settlement.
I've always loved the Union Jack. Pretty striking among national flags. It really grabs you. Maybe comparable (in visual impact, not political implication) to the Japanese Rising Sun or even some of the Jolly Roger flags. Nonetheless, a red dragon would look pretty badass.
Im really sorry for being "that guy" but its only the union jack when at sea its actually the union flag it is relaxed now and we dont actually call it that anymore however like many laws in our nation (like the law where all boys over the age of 12 should be trained in the longbow this is still a law but yet again no one knows about it and its never enforced) its never been offically changed
@@ashleytaylor7621Technically it's called the Union Jack when flying from the Jack mast of one of HM's ships, which includes RN land bases as they are classified and treated as ships. So the Union Jack doesn't have to be (physically) flown at sea...
The Union Jack is one of the most beautiful and interesting flags in the world. I like as well the flag of: Panama Greece Japan Vietnam France Argentina Italy Jamaica Barbados USA with 48 stars (I'm an architect).
I knew about the incorporation of Wales into the Kingdom of England being a factor in omitting Wales from the Union Jack. Now, I know why Wales is not on the Union Jack: not only the union of Wales with England, but also how the locals are satisfied with having their own flag! Also, I learned a bit more about 16th-century local government in Wales. Thanks for making this video!
Incorporation makes it sound nice. Call it for what it was. Invaded and annexed and then treated the Welsh as 2nd class citizens unless they learnt English.
A very informative channel.Thank you! You have a new subscriber! The only Welsh history I had at school was the Industrial Revolution and The Rebecca Rioters. I think more should be taught about the historical development of the different regions of the UK. Us Brits would gain a much better understanding and hopefully appreciation of our complex country. Regarding Welsh representation on the Union Flag, it would be difficult incorporating the flag of St. David. A small dragon could be placed in the centre of the red cross with a whitened background. After all, the other two crosses are not intact and the colour scheme would not be spoiled.😉
Different nations, not regions. England, Wales and Scotland are all countries in their own right. Please don't diminish any of them as merely regions. The UK is the artificial construct here.
@@danwilliams7423 I was using the word "region" to represent all various areas throughout the UK including those within the separate countries and the province of Northern Ireland. I am Welsh and have a clear understanding of the different national identities that exist within the UK, although I can appreciate someone unaware of this fact could misconstrue my usage of the word "region". I can assure you I was using it in its literal sense and not as a misinterpretation of the present national makeup of the UK.🤗
Seeing as how we have recently changed our official numberplate country identifier from GB to UK (to properly include Northern Ireland, because GB is the name of just one island in the British Isles), you'd think now might be a good time to add Ddraig Goch to the Union Flag. Even the most ardent "jokes about the Welsh assaulting the virtue of sheep are well hilarious" moron can't argue with the awesomeness of having a flipping dragon right there on the flag. Objectively, no country on Earth has a flag with anything cooler than a dragon sticking it's tongue out in defiance and raising a hand ready to smack you upside the head. You don't have to be Welsh to see that.
We should redo the entire thing, remove all the boring crosses and replace them with the animals. We could have a flag with a dragon, unicorn and lions on it.
@@ncot_tech The lions are Irish though, it would really need a rose for England. The 3 lions and the Harp are both brian boru symbols. They do exist in the coat of arms, but because they claimed Ireland and did a deal with the Brien clan. The Brien clan changed theirs from 3 gold lions to 3 gold and silver lions to make them look different. You have to remember "England" is anglo saxon and they wanted to cut ties with Germany "We are not german, we are English" that happened about 1000 years ago? they then adopted symbols from other clans around the islands to break the link to germany. Thats why the English have very little culture. Maypole dancing? moris (moor) dancing? Stone hendge wasnt them, king arthur isnt them etc etc. The single lion on its own that sometimes appears on their coat of armour is Scotland I think
@@geroutathat no they aren’t, there’s no mention of Ireland and the three lions. Also they were adopted in England long after his death. Also have you ever been to England “that’s why the English have very little culture” was this a joke? Showing just how little you know right here.
I have seen other versions of "Welsh" Union Jacks that don't include the Dragon. One replaced the blue in the lower field with green and as a result looked really goofy. The others I've seen incorporate the Cross of St. David to stick with the theme and look ... eye-searing, St. David's Gold on Black doesn't combine well with reds and blues.
As a Scottish person, I say just add a green stripe. The colours of wales are a green ribbon, a white ribbon and a red dragon. So add a green strip to the X of the union flag, as red, white and blue are already there for Scotland, England and Ireland.
@@lukesalvidge118 No Ireland. The Union Flag was updated when all of Irelnad was part of the UK (That second red cross) and it was never changed when the south left.
As a Welshman I am not sure about inclusion on the Union Jack. The Cross of St David would just make a good looking flag look plain ugly. You cannot really put Yddraig Goch central on the Union Jack because like it or not England *is* the primary Nation of the UK, it represents some 75% of our population. Which really only leaves placing it in a quarter, which unbalances the whole thing. On the whole I am in the leave well enough alone camp here. Despite my frequent jokes to English friends that slapping a bloody great red dragon right in the centre of the flag would make it look better because dragons make *everything* look better! When it comes to representation on the Royal Coat of Arms however, well that is a different matter entirely, and I am all for that. Whether Her Majesty will do it is arguable, but there is certainly precedence for an incoming Monarch to make changes to the Royal Coat of Arms.
As an Englishman, I think your flag is beautiful, and I would love to have such a wonderful flag. Of course it should be up to Welsh people whether the dragon should be on the union flag and/or coat of arms, but the dragon is such a bold symbol, I wonder if we would do him a disservice not leaving him to stand proudly on the green land that is Wales.
I wouldn't want a change to the Union flag, personally I think it's the best flag in the world... though the precise geometry of the Nepalese flag is also incredible. However, one of the English segments of the Royal coat of arms should definitely be a red dragon, it just makes sense. I also think the Welsh flag is by far the best flag of the 4 nations... and I'm English.
It just stands out so much. And it's more of a scene. The white is the skies, the green is our land, and well, there's a dragon walking on it. It's like the entirety of wales saw the other countries' flags and said "lets get creative"
Its about size and history. The major events and struggles in the British Isles was between Scotland and England. It was all about uniting the kingdoms of Scotland and England that created Britain. The Union flag is such an iconic and recognisable symbol, it would be insanity to change it now.
oh my, went to click off after liking the video then saw this channel only has 570 subscribers and yet is producing videos of this quality fair play mate
Last weekend, I was at an event where a Welsh person told me, "Wales is a province of England." Cambrian Chronicles said "country & dominion". I have lived in Canada all my life; I'm pretty confident that "country & dominion" does not equal province because provinces are the regions in the country & dominion. Maybe (some?) Welsh people are confused? (Note: there was no reason for him to tell me this, it wasn't a cultural event or cultural venue or anything related specifically to culture.)
Unfortunately some people are just super uninformed, Wales has never been designated as a "province" for the exact reasons as you said. The Tudors named it as a country and a dominion, and it was also informally (and most commonly) referred to as a/the "principality" (despite the principality being abolished in 1536).
@@CambrianChronicles A video on the whole Principality nonsense would be helpful - could just link to it every time I encounter an idiot on Twitter 😂Is it correct that the whole of Cymru was never a Principality anyway, only part of it? Now if only that building society and stadium would change their names we could be done with it forever! 👍
I would argue though that if the Welsh flag was ever incorporated into the Union Flag, it would look pretty ugly. I mean the dragon would stand out way too much and probably would be viewed as the symbol of the UK and not as Wales being represented.
Better symbol than a boring old lion, which is overrepresented everywhere and is just emblematic of the Normans. Before it was a yellow or white dragon for England iirc.
@@iggyzeta9755 I don't entirely disagree with that. I am just saying that if they were to add the welsh dragon to the Union Flag it would stick out like a sore thumb. But any symbol would also cause that problem anyways, because the Union Flag is perfect as it is.
Interesting video. One thing to note though is that the United Kingdom's flag is incorrectly called the Union Jack. It should be called the Union Flag. Correctly it is only called a Jack when flown on the jack staff on a Royal Navy ship. People who've served in the armed forces would know this just as they also know that it is not a symmetrical flag. It's incredible really that so many British citizens can't get the name of the flag correct or even know which way round to fly it.
No mention of the Cross of St David? All the other parts of the Union flag consist of different saints' crosses, not their heraldic animals: England's is the Cross of St George, Scotland's the Cross of St Andrew, and Ireland's the Cross of St Patrick. The problem though is that the Cross of St. David is gold on a black background, so its inclusion would profoundly change the Union flag's aesthetics.
Yeah it's using the Cross of the Saint that would make way more sense than the heraldic animal. But yeah the colors of black and gold won't work well with red, white and blue. It'll look off also kinda fascist.
it's not only that wales isn't on the union flag, ireland isn't part of the union any more and *northern* ireland has a different flag, so the diagonal red cross of ireland should technically be removed and replaced with that hand device that's on the n.i. flag as well, if we're meant to represent every region
Maybe you saw the representation of a 'suggested/proposed' Union Jack or Union Flag on Wikipedia (Flag of the United Kingdom) ? It's a small Dragon in the centre of the crosses and doesn't look too imposing or incorrect, I quite like it !
I have often thought that the Ddraig Goch should feature on the Union flag. Perhaps not quite as big as the one shown on the thumbnail, but right there in the middle, with all the stripes surrounding it. It would be the coolest flag EVER!
"And theres many watching this who don't want Wales to be on the Union jack" This is a man who knows his audience! :D First time coming across your channel/content - I look forward to the rest! [Subbed] Cariad fawr o Cymru De x
When people say wales was never a country I always point to those 3 figures and said they were named king/prince of all of Wales at one point. So it did exist and only doesn’t know for the English wanted eliminate the culture due to several loses and welsh rebellions occurring to where they are better off not giving Welsh people a rally cry.
True, and as I said in my video there’s a very long legal precedent for Wales being called a country (with laws mentioning it as the ‘Country of Wales’ from 1284 to 1830), not to mention that the UK government still currently calls it a country!
@@welshman8954 Language is not a proof of origin rather a result of local factors. Realise that at one time current North West England shared its Language with North Wales whose language is different to South Wales and Cornwall but all of same origin. The word Lon meaning Lane is common in former East Lancashire and many other specific Welsh traditions used to exist. For example women would still be known by their maiden name which I found confusing with relations such as my grandmother when young.
I always thought it were French speaking Norman's that wanted to rule the whole island. In the name of the English granted but they were invaders to the English too. Also Powys used to be a kingdom and it was way bigger stretching into what is now the English Midlands. As a Midlander this fascinates me and I am kinda proud of my Welsh friends and family. I wouldn't want to go anywhere I wasn't welcome though.
@@welshman8954 "the English are saxon and danish" this is simply not true. The Vikings, Anglo-Saxons and subsequent invaders/settlers had a much smaller impact on the overall genetic makeup of the people of the British Isles than a lot of people think. It wasn't like they genocided and/or supplanted the existing population. In reality, the English share much of the same ancestry as everybody else in the British isles; the biggest differences were cultural (adoption of anglo-saxon laws, language, etc) and that's the reason why England is seen as distinct from the rest of the UK nations. The real history of these islands is far more complex and intriguing. Fun fact: If you're from South Wales you are more different, genetically speaking, to people from North Wales than the English and Scots are to each other. There is no one group of people who can say they are the "original Britons"
@@Lee-T1000 even though England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are part of the UK, each country within the union has it's own parliament and some levels of autonomy within their borders
I am a Welshman, and while I never knew why our flag wasn’t on the Union Jack, and I still want it on the flag, I can definitely say I don’t personally know where it would go.
I as an Englishman would welcome the Welsh emblem it would be perfect, especially after removing the Scottish blue and white. I never understood why the Welsh wasnt represented in the union flag. very sad
Indeed i would love to see my country's flag🏴 removed of the current flag and the dissolution of the UK. There wud be no union jack and England and English people wud have to use their own flag 🏴 instead of hijacking the Union flag as their own. As well as not refer to Britain or the UK as England. I do notice particularly in sport they tend to use their own flag these days. You will never get a union jack at a Scottish national sport. Some football clubs supporters in Scotland do use the union jack but they identify as being British not Scottish. I am Scottish not British therefore would never display a UJ. My country's flag is 🏴🏴🏴 and the Lion Rampart not the UJ. I think the welsh flag is very nice indeed and although officially adopted as the flag of Wales in 1959 it has historical credibility as the Welsh flag being used by the then independence Princes of Wales before Wales was annexed into England by that horrible vicious Edward I in 1284 and then legally incorporated into the kingdom of England by Henry 8th in 1534. It, was the banner and emblem of the Welsh Henry Tudor who became king of England, first of the Tudor monarchs and to my knowledge (?) to actually visit Wales. The Tudors were Welsh. England's last English king was Richard III. In 1603 the Scottish Stewarts /Stuarts took over and were the family who brough about the Union of 1707 . Like the Tudi before them they neglected and forgot about their ancient Kingdom of Scotland where they had ruled for 336 (343 in total counting the 7 years as Great Britain years) and only 104 in England. Indeed the Stewarts /Stuarts are the longest ruling Dynasty in the British Isles producing 15 monarchs in direct succession. This included 2 King Roberts, II and III, 7 James. 2 Charles, I and II 2 Queen Mary's I and II, William II /III and Queen Anne who was the last monarch of both Scotland and England and the first if Great Britain in 1707
Totally agree, while your at it you can give all the financial benefits back, Scotland is so hard done too especially if you compare how Wales is treated. Time to build the wall, to keep the likes of wee Jimmy cranky and Hezbollah Patriots out.
4:51 That sounds like a kindergarten argument: - I am king! - Then I am Prince, which is higher than King. - I will call my kids “prince” so people associate it with a lower rank.
The Irish Saltire is offset to avoid slighting the Scottish Saltire. How do you add Welsh representation to the Union Flag without slighting an element that is already there?
I have really enjoyed these videos on Wales. It wasn't until I was in Army and spent time in what was then West Germany and had a few buddies in the British Army who told me my surname was Welch. I never knew. A few years later some cousins did a genealogy search which seemed to confirm it. But I have to be honest and say that I have a hard time trying to pronounce these words. Did the Welsh ever hear about using Vowels once in a while?😅😅 This is a great video and have enjoyed them all. Keep up the great work. Even if I can't pronounce any of the words.
Welsh has plenty of vowels...it's just that the language was shoehorned into the Latin alphabet, unlike normal Hebrew which _is_ written without vowels (unless an obscure pronunciation when the vowel pointings are inserted into the consonants).
This is an excellent well researched video. As a Welsh boy growing up in Swansea in thev1970s and 80s, I wondered why there was : 1 an English/german man with the title " Prince of Wales" 2. Why we were not on the monarch's court of Arms. 3. Why we were not part of the union flag. 4. Why the fuck when I studied O level History in 1983-4, why it was all about England, with 4 weeks devoted to Welsh history. Ironically, Wales was the first industrialised nation on earth, not England, yet those fuckers take the credit. Irrespective of this, I have always felt Welsh to my core. My soul is completely Welsh. Culturally Wales has a unique distinctive quality which has never left me, even though ive now been in England most of my adult life.
firstly, as a welsh person named Owain, its so nice to hear you nail the pronunciation, i hate being called Owen XD secondly, i love how wales has kinda evolved from wanting to be on the union jack to, a surprisingly large amount wanting to leave the UK. In the MCU wales is independent which is pretty cool also!
@@lasigh3883 I mean if the Vatican City is a country, wales has every right to be, we pretty much do everything ourself, we run our own country pretty much, House of Commons and the uk government doesn’t do much for wales. So you know
Love the bold and proud Welsh flag! My 1 Welsh ancestor came to the USA about 1750 from Cardiff, that paternal line going straight back to Richard Blewitt Edwards, the illegitimate son of Henry VIII. The rest of me is of Irish descent, but this tiny percentage and that beautiful dragon flag draws me to Wales for a visit someday!!!
As an Englishman, the dragon is so bold, that it would be almost unfair to merge it into a stripy multicoloured arrangement. It looks great as it is, and symbolises welsh spirit well by being separate to the union flag.
As another American with a small amount of Welsh descent, I like the flag, too! Also, its remarkable that your Welsh blood is also _royal_ blood! Thanks for sharing this!
Imagine if the Union Jack did include Welsh representation and you were either a colonial subject or being colonised by Britain and you see the flag. Just how intimidating would that be? I could imagine the Americans villifying the flag saying how it represented British tyranny more so than in our own world.
Is there anything stopping someone from flying a flag that composes the current union flag and elements of the Welsh flag? Just curious. It seems like there would be a market, throughout the UK, and even abroad.
Adding the dragon to the Union Jack would look wrong but adding it to the coat of arms might work. Perhaps, given Wales’ supposedly inferior status to England, Scotland, and Ireland, it could be on an enté en point (a small bit at the bottom middle of the shield) much like how Granada is depicted on the Spanish coat of arms, though the small size might mean it’s better for it it to just be the red dragon’s head “couped” (on its own) rather than the whole dragon The Though personally I’m all for the four lions of Gwynedd replacing the second set of Anglo-Norman lions in the lower sinister quarter.
@@je-freenorman7787 In the story of Saint George and the dragon, the dragon is an evil entity as it is with Saint Michael. It would be totally inappropriate on a flag with three Christian crosses.
I would have liked to have seen the Saint David’s cross adopted as the official welsh flag as it would then better accompany the other 3 nations Saint’s flags
Saint David’s cross would definitely be more aesthetically coherent with the other flags, but I personally find the Welsh dragon much more interesting.
"Wales did not cease to exist" if you want to open another can of worms the same can be said for Cornwall which was never conquered by Wessex and was illegally annexed to England, originally a kingdom in its own right like Wales that predated England, later to become a Duchy with plenty of historical "royal" references stating that the Duchy is extraterritorial to England..
@@CambrianChronicles AI W is ill informed By 1066 Cornwall was part of England under the Anglo-Saxons (Earl Godwin of Wessex and his son King Harold being major land holders) and that control was consolidated by the Normans. Not clear how in a time of almost constant warfare between rival kingdoms Cornwall was illegally annexed. I suppose England was illegally annexed by the Normans. The Duchy of Cornwall does not comprise the whole of Cornwall - infact only about 13% of the Duchy is Cornish with the majority of the estate in Devon and other counties. So even if the Duchy was 'extraterritorial' to England - Cornwall isn't. However, Cornwall is informally referred to as the Duchy on occasion.
I think the best way Wales could be represented is having a yellow cross within the English cross part of the flag, as this would represent St David’s flag. However I think the flag is so iconic that this design wouldn’t sit right with many. So as much as I think wales should be represented on the flag (I’m English btw) I don’t think it should happen from a design perspective
@finlaywilliams4746 That would make the Union flag very similar to the flag of Guernsey, which has the yellow cross of Normandy inside the English cross of St George. It looks quite good!
Regardless of the politics, from a purely design and aesthetics stance, a dragon of any colour doesn't fit with the very balanced crosses and colours scheme that is the Union Flag; it would ruin the flag. The welsh dragon is a great symbol but it is a very strong one that does not lend itself to mixing.
Reworking the simple union jack to have the more different design style and format of the Welsh flag is quite difficult since the union jack is just a composition of 2 bisecting lines on a solid colour background with different colours, hence the good style and look it has overall; as opposed to the Welsh design of a bicolour with a complex design in the middle. The best design I can think up on a whim is a union jack with some of the blue background replaced with green triangles, but that's still very iffy even from my end. Welsh inclusion on the coat of arms is something very viable, doable, and simple, so that should be very much considered.
If you redesign it for the inclusion of Wales you also have to remove the St. Patrick's cross (X) of "Ireland" as that "Kingdom" no longer exists and Northern Ireland uses a similar design to the St George's cross.
I personally don't really want the dragon on the Union Jack, but its a goddamn dragon! The history of our lack of representation also pains me but, it's neat to know that Wales didn't just 'cease to exist' after the annexation and we were more like a somewhat independent colony. Edit: Idea, we could replace one of the blue corners with green.
Actually, you see, Wales is on the Union Jack, however the dragon is incredibly good at camouflage, so it is hiding behind the red crosses
Yes hiding is about right
Does the white hide the English white dragon?
@@jerryfriend7489 nah it got drowned in the blue.
I am Australian we have the union jack in the left hand corner of our flag do.s that mean that the dragon has to be on that to or maybe we should change our flag with a kangaroo and a koala in the top left hand corner
It must be related to Elliot, the dragon who helped Pete escape child slavery.
"Named after his K/D Ratio," that one caught me off guard 😂
it woke me up from my stupor!
Got me to find a new video instantly
A history regarding Wales' flag would be fantastic. I always wonder who drew our flag and the Red Dragon's history.
I would have thought the dragon is the one that Saint George killed
Your flag is awesome! Much love from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷🤙🏽🏴💪🏽
@@issemayhem except he didn't kill a dragon, was born in Turkey and never came to the UK
Actually, the dragon has roots in the flag of Owain Glyndwr.
William Blake, drew it.
The Welsh flag is cool AF, with that bloody great dragon on it, and the Union Flag is a design classic. So I'm all for leaving things as they are.
But hard to draw. Better off with the St David's cross.
@@therespectedlex9794 I'd agree, but the st David's cross just isn't nearly as popular as the st George's, st Andrew's, or st Patrick's crosses. Mayne using the green and white background of the Welsh flag could be better
@@Saphfire05 You use the yellow from the cross in your football kits. World Cup too!
@@therespectedlex9794 I have seen yellow in some mockup flags and I guess that could work as the FAW have gone back to a yellow kit. However, the other countries have representation of both colours of their crosses on the flag, though they all kind of share the white. Putting just 1 colour might look inferior, and putting black in doesn't seem like it would look nice. Also, I'm actually canadian instead of welsh, but I ok with being welsh for the day lol
@@Saphfire05 I think they wear black too.
I think the dragon should be reincorporated into the coat of arms, so there is at least some representation for Wales in our national symbols. Considering that Scotland and (Northern) Ireland already have representation on the Union Flag, at least this compromise would be fair. I'm not sure what would replace the current supporting animals though, perhaps the dragon could be curled up on the bottom behind the motto? Or the dragon could replace the lion, and the lion is put upon the crown at the top?
I’m not sure what design the original petitioners wanted, I assume they would want a dragon on the shield and that that would replace one of the two English lion sections
If only a Welsh person would go back in time to 400 CE to Industrialized and Militarized Wales!
@@christiandauz3742 why?
@@vanpallandt5799
Then Wales wouldn't be the unwanted redhead stepchild of the Union
But with a dragon the flag would look garbage
I've binged all of your videos over the past few days. No personal connection to Wales, just a lover of learning about obscure historical periods. Just wow! What a treasure trove of history, correcting misinformation, and cheeky bits of humor all combined into amazing videos. Thank you for all your hard work, and I look forward to seeing what you cover next!
Commenting to say this. His videos have lived in my recommended for years and never bit but now I have and I'm hooked
This is TH-cam history done right. No dumbing down or glossing over. Nice work
It's youtube history all right.
He didn't even get the name of the flag right.
Having just discovered your entertaining and informative channel I, as a proud 'Cymro' living in Oxford, have immediately subscribed. Many thanks for all your diligent research in producing these fascinating episodes!
I thought that the white in the union jack represented Wales. The two reds going for england and Ireland, the blue for Scotland and the white coming from the Welsh flag.
I can see I was totally wrong and this video was great, thank you for clarifying years of wrong guesses from my part lol
If the white in the bottom half was green, that would do it.
The white and blue was the Saltair the flag of Scotland
The white you're referring to was specifically to represent Scotland's white cross so that the blue was not confused for a meaningless background color. That's why it's split down the center line with the Irish cross.
This is kind of like saying the “e” in Great Britain represents the “e” in Wales
@@sebe2255They have already admitted that they were wrong. What's wrong with you?
Both flags are great and combining them in any form would sully both. There is also a Scottish version of the Union Jack without the Irish addition but it looks more like an anti-Iceland flag unfortunately.
Haha I know the one you mean, I never thought of it as anti-Iceland but now I won’t be able to un-see it!
Thats just the old union jack
This 👉 🇬🇧 is a great flag? 🤣🤣🤣
@@daidavies90
One of the most unique and visually interesting flag designs on the planet whilst still being aesthetically pleasing. That's pretty hard to do and does indeed make it a very well designed flag
@@godlovesyou1995 True. They're seen often in the New England parts of the U.S. due to it being the version during colonial times.
That "kill death ratio" joke got me. Well done.
Thank you!
@@CambrianChronicles very funny
Independence for Kernow!@@CambrianChronicles
In fact, there is a secondary flag for Wales, which follows the pattern of other countries in the United Kingdom. It's the "Flag of Saint David", which is almost the same as the flag of England, except that the cross is yellow and the background is black. This flag is even present on the Welsh capital's football club badge! Perhaps they should adopt that cross on the flag of the United Kingdom, or at least on the coat of arms perhaps.
Ugh, fine, put the dragon on there, adding more colors would be even uglier.
@@StumpfForFreedom100% agree. Trying to incorporate yellow, black, or both into the current Union Jack simply DOES NOT work. Frankly, I've yet to see a Union Jack redesign that features standard Welsh colors or symbols in an elegant and pleasing way.
@@irishjet2687 True, but they could definitely change the coat of arms just by replacing one of the quadrants with english lion with a dragon. Maybe then we could even get away with adding the coat of arms onto the union Jack like with the Spanish and Portuguese flags, but maybe thay would look bad idk
If Scotland achieves independence then a new flag could replace the blue of St Andrews saltire with the black of St David's flag with the St Patrick's saltire bounded by yellow instead of white. It could then even be interpreted as also incorporating the St Piran cross for Kernow!
@@DorgpoopThe Union flag has the advantage of simplicity together with absence of figures, so is easy to create, and easy to recognise, even in black and white.
Great video as always! 2:13 had me in tears! I love how your videos incorporate comedy into incredible teaching.
Haha, thank you so much!
Agreed. Brilliant banter lol
I’m not welsh. So my reasonings for wanting the red dragon on the Union Jack is very simple. Dragons are cool, flags are cool. So a flag with a dragon would only be cooler
Dragons are ugly
Fun fact the dragon has 3 different Welsh myths about it
@@samjustsam interesting
What would be cooler, is for Wales to achieve independence, making this debate irrelevant 🏴
@@PD-jj4fo Im Welsh but I think Welsh independence from Britain would be awful, i dont want to live in a separate country from Britain. Wales in British
This clip has explained the historical reasons why Wales isn't represented on the Union Jack. But there re also vexillological reasons. The English, the Scottish and the Irish flags have patterns of the same type, which are easily combined into an aesthetically pleasing whole. The Welsh dragon - figurative, and totally dominating the flag - is very difficult to fit into a design of the Union Jack type. It is difficult to envision a red dragon on the Unnion Jack that neither dominates the design unduly, nor disappears into insignificance. The only way I can envision a Welsh element in the Union Jack is by adding some if the Welsh flag's green colour into the cross design.
St David has a cross flag? it is yellow and black.
@@sarahgargani5836Yes, but not only is that not official, the colors don't work well with the pre-exisitng elements of the flag.
I used to be pretty active in the r/Vexillology subreddit, and I've seen dozens of attempts to incorporate Welsh symbolism into the Union Jack. I've even seen attempts at a theoretical flag of a Scotland-less and/or Northern Ireland-less United Kingdom. Outside of a complete, start-from-scratch redesign, it either doesn't work or causes the dragon to be the main emphasis of the flag.
"dominates the design unduly,"
Sure, but is this really an issue? It'd make the Union Jack 100% more awesome.
Honestly I think you probably could have it both ways, with a reduced size dragon in the centre. I'll try to make a mock up tomorrow to see how it looks. The only issue might be the red on red, but I think the Dragon's black outline would be enough to make it work well.
My personal favourite idea to incorporate the welsh flag to the union jack was to replace the the bit of the english flag that goes up with a red dragon neck then head. I do geel that it would be a pain to draw so not ideal from that pov but it definitely looked good
You could have a much smaller dragon that just fits in the center. I saw a mockup of such a flag and it looked great!
I oppose having a direct representation of Wales on the Union Flag, as there is no visually appealing way to do so (with either the Red Dragon or St David’s Cross). However, I do support representing Wales on the Royal Coat of Arms by replacing the bottom-right quadrant with the arms of Prince Llywelyn the Great.
@@Knappa22 technically not the same Monarchy that we have today.
I believe that it was the Plantagenets who wiped out Llwelyn and his family.
You can't lay the blame on the House of Windsor who are their 4th successors.
I've seen some pleasant ways on ways to add Welsh representation on the UJ with the St. David's Cross by replacing England's red cross with the yellow cross instead and it looks somewhat nice
That should be a no brainer given the population of Wales is much greater than that of Northern Ireland which gets its own representation - ironically based on Irish Nationalism.
The dragon looks at his finest standing alone emblazoned against the green and white.
I see no reference here to the white cross of Cornwall which I thought also was incorporated into the Union Flag.
The Welsh flag may have only been officially adopted in 1959, but I recall seeing it flown or waved widely in the early 1950s. From my last return visit to Wales in 1975 and from more recent news or documentary footage, most places in Wales fly both flags simultaneously from separate flagpoles, or just fly the Welsh flag if they don't have room for both. As a naturalised Australian now, the only place I fly the Union Jack is in the canton of the Australian 🇦🇺 flag.
I am half Aussie (Scottish MacDonald clan heritage) half English, but I won't fly any flag except the Eureka Flag. My English family has their own tartan and clan too back in England, always wearing the kilt to events.
Hopefully Australia one day takes the Aboriginal flag as national flag. It’s so nice and Australian, and can be cherished by both settlers and original inhabitants. Compare how Canada uses a Canadian symbol as flag instead of a derivative of the British flag.
@@TayT300 American here, never heard of the Eureka Flag!
I spent my childhood in the coal mining state of West Virginia, where there have been lots of armed uprising by miners over unfair working conditions.
I'm picturing the meme of the two beefy arms clasping hands; AUS on one side, WV on the other, and "Miner Uprisings" in the middle lol
@@bricknolty5478 There's an entry on Wikipedia about the Eureka flag. Basically, it is white cross on a Prussian blue background, with a seven pointed star at the end of each arm of the cross and one in the centre. It is a symbolic representation of the Southern Cross. Having been hijacked by various activist groups over the years, it has accumulated too much political baggage to be considered seriously as a national flag any more. Which is a pity.
@@eilivulv What specifically Australian symbol appears on the Aboriginal flag? What does it symbolise to the nation as a whole. The only flag of any Australian State or Territory that I think is wholly Australian and truly representative of all its people is the Northern Territory flag. Now imagine the Sturt's desert rose replaced by the Federation Star, or a sprig of wattle, as the national flag.
ps, What about the Torres Strait Islands flag, which is pretty much flown alongside the Aboriginal flag everywhere these days?
I've found your channel few months ago, and I never would have though that I'll find welsh medieval history so interesting
God praise the algorithm. What an excellent video. As an Englishman who sadly only studied in Wales, this is an amazing video
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it and I’m glad you enjoyed!
Whats wrong with Wales?
Jk lol
Yes the algorithm blessed us with this video.
@@CambrianChronicles can you speak Welsh
Wyt ti galli siarad cymraeg?
I am Welsh and a number of years ago i had words with an english student. With reference to wales not represented on the union jack. She said wales was because of the red in the flag. I told her the red crosses on the flag was for england and ireland and the blue for scotland. And wales was not represented
because it was not counted as an separate country but part of england. She would not have it and kept saying its was because of the red in the flag.
It could be. Why not make it official that the red is now Wales. Sorted.
Ireland is no longer part of the uk but six counties of Ireland are still aline to the uk so what you're saying six counties of Ireland which there's thirty two counties in total are entitled to be in uk flag but Wales isn't, do you see where I'm coming from? The six counties of Ireland is not a nation, Ulster is nine counties so you can't use Ulster even because only six of the nine counties are aline to the uk .
There's four provinces in Ireland Ulster,connaught,,munster and Leinster
@Oxi Firebeard You're a tool.
@@Raggman42 well Northern Ireland is part of the UK , but the southern part of ireland
@@Raggman42they werent talked about oughts and entitlements, rather the history.
Its historically true that Wales was left out of the Union flag because at the time its counties were administered as parts of England, and that the diagonal red cross was added to represent conquered Ireland.
Administrarively after the Union the monarch was King of England, Scotland and Ireland. For fun they added Emperor of India much later
I have actually wondered about this for YEARS! Thank you for providing an answer!
You're welcome!
@@CambrianChronicles or about half a million minutes!
Not an answer - an excuse
One important detail that’s not mentioned is that the Tudors descended from a prominent Welsh family, so in a sense the Welsh (in the person of Henry VII) conquered England.
Well, according to this logic in 1918 the Germans launched an desperate large offensive against the Germans, which were supported by the Germans after successfully defeating the Germans with their German Allies.
(Russias tsar was of German descend and so was the British king, while Austrians are Germans and France descendants from the Francs/Franconians/ Franken which were Germans or Porto Germans.
Yep and basically is half the problem since James I removed it in favor of the unicorn even though he basically has three supporters indeed because of Charles III is also of Hanover, Saxe-Coburg Gotha and Glücksburg orgins he also has a larger variety of animals and other objects in his pedigree but overall he would have to be given authority from the College Of Arms and consent from the UK Parliament if not all Parliaments within the Commonwealth, so overall changing the Royal Coat Of Arms would much more difficult than to just change the Union Jack
Technically Henry Tudor only became king because he murdered the previous king. He claim to the throne is suspect
The Tudors were a minor branch of the English House of Lancaster and Henry Tudor was legally barred from any claim to the crown by legislation that debarred his ancestors and their descendents (including him) in both the maternal and paternal lines. He was only able to make his tenuous claim to the crown because Edward of Westminster,
the last Lancastrian who had an arguably legitimate one, was killed at the Battle of Tewkesbury.
If course, none of that mattered in the end because Henry Tudor had a large force of French mercenaries and a traitor in Richard III's army who was willing to change sides at the critical moment.
So much could be added here!
Henry of Richmond didn’t actually do anything to ‘win’ his crown, he didn’t put up the funds for the invasion, (that was the French and his mother, a Lancastrian Beaufort), nor did he recruit the Norman mercenaries (who brought the Sweat with them), nor did he strategize, plot with messengers, spies and agents (that was Bray et al), nor did he become involved in any of the actual fighting - he was never formally trained in such martial activities having left the Herbert household probably soon after the execution of the Earl of Pembroke (William Herbert) - he was surrounded by men who were to protect him and the sight of Richard quite literally only feet away from deciding the battle by killing him would have stayed with him his whole life!
Whether it was Rhys ap Thomas or another of William Stanley’s men who came from behind and struck down Richard, in the manner of chivalric honor, we will never know, but it saved Richmond’s quaking life. And the Stanleys’ never let H7 forget that he owed everything g to them, and they certainly behaved as if they were king. Read up on their behavior from Bosworth onward - it is not Warwick who should be called ‘Kingmaker’ but the Stanleys, and they owned Henry of Richmond.
As to Henry’s parentage, more than a few have speculated - and I refer to academics, not BBC wags, that Edmund Beaufort was his father.
"Named after his K/D ratio"
Haha, was not expecting that.
I think Wales is fascinating. I learn welsh as my third language (I am german) and I am loving it. Wish to visit this land one day for myself.
Where or how do you learn Welsh in Germany? Do learn it online with apps?
@@schlawyn3r418 yeah
@@schlawyn3r418 well done
Well done. I lived there for a while, and father born on Gower Peninsula . Language is ancient and difficult to master. So good for you.
I’m a Welshman learning German as my third language hahaha
I'd love to see a more in depth history of Welsh flags and crests, as I know the current flag, although only adopted in the 50s, was designed much earlier (according to Wikipedia 1807), and I've heard (though I'm not a historian so I can't verify) that a very similar design was used in the Tudor period on navy vessels. But as well the history of the many dragon crests would be interesting too.
The red dragon flag does originate with the tudors, as Henry VII allegedly carried a red dragon banner into battle, and the white and green are the house colours of the tudors.
I would be cautious on Wikipedia's claims though, the quality of Welsh history articles on there are typically very very poor, which I've complained about a few times on here before
@@CambrianChronicles ah good to know! Thanks!
Yo, this taught me a lot and also this is kind of wanting me to know more. I’m definitely subbed for this, thanks!
Thank you! I’m really glad you enjoyed
Great video. Having the quick sunmary at the end is honestly so good. Thanks.
What is a Sunmary
For whatever reason, most youtubers can't grasp the concepts of the Kingdom of Ireland, the Kingdom of GB, and the flag difference between the Kingdom of GB and the UK. Great to see you've bucked the trend!
TH-camrs, usually see the world through US centred eyes. The British Isles is a geographical description which includes all of Ireland and the Isle of Man. The United Kingdom is a political entity which includes 6 counties of Northern Island, the Kingdoms of Scotland and England, the Principality of Wales, but the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles are "posessions" of the UK. Regards from Australia.
@@michaelhalsall5684 FORMER countries...get it right
@@michaelhalsall5684 The British Isles is an offensive term. Nothing in Ireland is British.
I’m Welsh. We have our own flag which is one of the most distinctive flags on the planet. Our own flag makes us unique. By not being on the union jack strengthens the fact that we are unique. I don’t want a dragon or any representation on the union jack. I personally think we don’t need it. If we didn’t have the Welsh flag today then I would be singing a different tune.
Agree We Are Happy As We Are Leave Our Flag Alone
Agreed, who the hell wants representation on the 'butchers apron'
@@TheHovel Yet geneticists have and are able to point out groups in Wales that are different to areas of the UK that contain no British?
@@TheHovel Even Ancestry can tell which area your genes are mostly found.
@@MisterBurtonshaw You either buy into their marketing or you don't, I guess.
I like the flags the way they are The Union Jack is a piece of iconic beauty and a Wales flag it's just awesome by itself
Good, informative, well presented with a touch of humour… which I always love Thank you so much
Thank you so much for watching!
@@CambrianChronicles Many comrades of Welsh descent will always be remembered from my time in the Airborne , 1962 - '77.
Diolch for another excellent video! Now I'm looking forward to a video about the origins of the Draig Goch flag... And one on the Kingdom of Powys, too
The Red Dragon of Cadwaladr was taken up as a symbol of the Britons to at least the 7th century, probably dates back earlier to the Roman times, so by far the oldest symbol, at least 600 years before England adopted the cross of St George in the 14th century (prior to that it had been St Edmund).The Green and White background was the symbol of the Tudor family (Henry Tudor became Henry VII in 1485).). The patron saint of Wales is St David, whose flag is a yellow cross on a black background.
Funnily enough St George is associated with dragon slaying so it kinda makes sense that there's no dragon on a flag with his cross.
@@RubyDoobieScoo well, it wasn’t a Welsh Dragon but one from Asia minor, brah!
I saw someone designed a new flag for the Anglosphere. They had emblems in different places for the countries and "included" Wales by using a White Dragon on a Red Background... quite the mix-up (That represents the Anglo-Saxon settlers not the Welsh fyi).
Honestly, the Union Jack is a beautiful flag and i think it's a miracle they managed to merge 3 flags together
If we put the Welsh dragon on the flag it would be sp awesome that it would overshadow the rest of the flag!
Thats why it's not on there, it's just to god damn cool!
I've never thought of that but that's a really good point Like imagine trying to merge the US, Canada and Mexican flags or Norway, Finland and Sweden into their own flags
Union Jack looks like shit you’ve got no taste
Yeah its a real fuckin' miracle they managed to merge three crosses together. I mean, one of them had a blue background!!!! Near impossible task there
@@uckbritley1305 All of them overlap you nob what are you trying to prove by being sarcastic here, its a tough task, it only seems logical because you're used to the final product.
Glad you countered the modern misconception of king>prince. It's long been much murkier than that, and for much of history king and prince were also used interchangeably, by the same people.
0:48 Thank you. Minutes is my preferred measurement of time
Yankees will use everything but the metric system
389,995,200 minutes , to be a little more precise . Times 60 for the seconds !!!
Union jack with wales ideas
-bottom half has green instead of blue
-middle has a dragon (but then it's a centerpiece and Wales isn't the most important part of the UK, definitely the coolest history though)
-small dragon at the end of the far left red line (not a huge change, and Wales is in the bottom left corner of England)
-Write Llanfairpwllgwyngogerychwryndrobwllantysiliogogogoch on the flag
I’ve seen the idea of the bottom half with green instead of blue before, and personally I don’t like it but it is an interesting idea.
Adding a dragon to the flag would be pretty cool looking but as you said it may ironically end up overshadowing the other 3 countries
@@CambrianChronicles what about adding Llanfairpwllgwyngogerychwryndrobwllantysiliogogogoch?
@@CR1MSONACE Printing it directly on and over the Union Jack might create the most unique flag of all time!
@@CambrianChronicles The uniLlanfairpwllgwyngogerychwryndrobwllantysiliogogogochonjack
Put little red dragons running all over all red stripes on the flag 🤣🤣🤣
The dragon is also a complicated device to add to the Union Jack. Maybe a small 20 mph sign on the left side would be adequate
You do know that English towns and cities had the 20mph limit way before wales?
@@alynwillams4297 not as a national default for the whole country tho lmao
@@freddiepatterson1045 it’s not like that in Wales either.
@@alynwillams4297 I mean as someone who lives in Cardiff and drives all the time, yeah it is. Maybe not up north, but even when i drive up via hay-on-wye there is loads of them
Giggled at that 20mph comment haha from a Welshman
Historical videos of my country Wales are so hard to come by on TH-cam, please make more
I will!
There’s a few floating around if you know where to look.
Thank you for another fantastic video!! It'll be interesting to see if anything changes with the union jack as the political landscape of the Union changes. I.e. will Westminster suddenly call for Welsh representation on the flag if Scotland leaves to try and get Wales to stay? Super interesting video!
Thank you! It’s definitely an interesting concept, who knows how it might change in the future, but I’d say your idea is definitely a possibility
brother leave thsi channel i know you from the rare feesh market you scammed me of five breed s of rare feesh
And what would the country be called?
The Arse end?
Not really much chance of Wales leaving the Union. Plaid Cymru support (our equivalent of the SNP) shows that fairly clearly. PC has never called for a referendum for Welsh Independence because they know it would lose, especially now that they have lost a significant amount of their support with Devolution.
People should take a look at the Welsh Devolution referendum by the way, it was close, as in really, really close. Less than a percent point close. Welsh Devolution made it through in Wales by the literal skin of its teeth. That was the height of PC's power, a significant proportion of their voter base did not want to leave the Union, they wanted some form of self determination in Wales, and with Devolution they got what they wanted. PC's support tailed off fairly rapidly after that to the point it was below 20% last time I looked.
I was just thinking the same. Good job I checked to see whether someone had beaten me to it!
Good to see a vid on this channel get a million views!
Thank you!
Just found this channel, and I love it! Wales is the most interesting part of the UK to me, and I always was interested in Britain. Welsh culture is the oldest and language is super beautiful
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed, I agree that Wales is the most interesting but then again I might be a bit biased!
How can Welsh culture be older than the rest of Britain? Wales is a pretty new creation, research the Brythonic peoples who occupied the western part of mainland Britain.
@@andymoore9977 Welsh language and culture is wayyyyy older than English...The Welsh are the original Britons
@@RS__7 Who mentioned English? Please try and read other folk's post more carefully.
@@RS__7 You ignore Cornwall and fall into the false idea that Wales somehow managed to never be a part of the Roman Empire. In reality there is no difference between the people of any of the three countries of England, Scotland and Wales as proved by recent DNA studies. Even West Wales was part of both the Roman Empire and the later Norman and previous Saxon settlement.
I've always loved the Union Jack. Pretty striking among national flags. It really grabs you. Maybe comparable (in visual impact, not political implication) to the Japanese Rising Sun or even some of the Jolly Roger flags. Nonetheless, a red dragon would look pretty badass.
Im really sorry for being "that guy" but its only the union jack when at sea its actually the union flag it is relaxed now and we dont actually call it that anymore however like many laws in our nation (like the law where all boys over the age of 12 should be trained in the longbow this is still a law but yet again no one knows about it and its never enforced) its never been offically changed
@@ashleytaylor7621Technically it's called the Union Jack when flying from the Jack mast of one of HM's ships, which includes RN land bases as they are classified and treated as ships. So the Union Jack doesn't have to be (physically) flown at sea...
Pretty shit flag actually. No dragon for a start
Also, "I've always loved the union jack"? 🤢 BOAK
@@8bitghostnuts It's called patriotism
I knew about England conquering Wales but I had no idea the Welsh flag was so recent! Hard to include the Welsh flag when they didn't have one!
This is a fantastic video! Thank you for taking the time to put it together :)
At 6:03 ...I'm a Vexillologist...Wales has one of the best flags EVER!!!!!
The Pendragon
I think Albania's tops it.
The Union Jack is one of the most beautiful and interesting flags in the world. I like as well the flag of:
Panama
Greece
Japan
Vietnam
France
Argentina
Italy
Jamaica
Barbados
USA with 48 stars
(I'm an architect).
I knew about the incorporation of Wales into the Kingdom of England being a factor in omitting Wales from the Union Jack. Now, I know why Wales is not on the Union Jack: not only the union of Wales with England, but also how the locals are satisfied with having their own flag!
Also, I learned a bit more about 16th-century local government in Wales. Thanks for making this video!
Incorporation makes it sound nice. Call it for what it was. Invaded and annexed and then treated the Welsh as 2nd class citizens unless they learnt English.
A very informative channel.Thank you!
You have a new subscriber!
The only Welsh history I had at school was the Industrial Revolution and The Rebecca Rioters.
I think more should be taught about the historical development of the different regions of the UK.
Us Brits would gain a much better understanding and hopefully appreciation of our complex country.
Regarding Welsh representation on the Union Flag, it would be difficult incorporating the flag of St. David.
A small dragon could be placed in the centre of the red cross with a whitened background.
After all, the other two crosses are not intact and the colour scheme would not be spoiled.😉
Thank you, I’m really glad you enjoyed! And I agree, the UK (and general British history discussion) could really benefit from a much wider scope
Different nations, not regions. England, Wales and Scotland are all countries in their own right.
Please don't diminish any of them as merely regions. The UK is the artificial construct here.
@@danwilliams7423 I was using the word "region" to represent all various areas throughout the UK including those within the separate countries and the province of Northern Ireland.
I am Welsh and have a clear understanding of the different national identities that exist within the UK, although I can appreciate someone unaware of this fact could misconstrue my usage of the word "region".
I can assure you I was using it in its literal sense and not as a misinterpretation of the present national makeup of the UK.🤗
Northern Ireland is not a province, it is part of the Irish province of Ulster.
Seeing as how we have recently changed our official numberplate country identifier from GB to UK (to properly include Northern Ireland, because GB is the name of just one island in the British Isles), you'd think now might be a good time to add Ddraig Goch to the Union Flag. Even the most ardent "jokes about the Welsh assaulting the virtue of sheep are well hilarious" moron can't argue with the awesomeness of having a flipping dragon right there on the flag.
Objectively, no country on Earth has a flag with anything cooler than a dragon sticking it's tongue out in defiance and raising a hand ready to smack you upside the head. You don't have to be Welsh to see that.
We should redo the entire thing, remove all the boring crosses and replace them with the animals. We could have a flag with a dragon, unicorn and lions on it.
@@ncot_tech I'd vote for that flag.
Bhutan
@@ncot_tech The lions are Irish though, it would really need a rose for England. The 3 lions and the Harp are both brian boru symbols. They do exist in the coat of arms, but because they claimed Ireland and did a deal with the Brien clan. The Brien clan changed theirs from 3 gold lions to 3 gold and silver lions to make them look different. You have to remember "England" is anglo saxon and they wanted to cut ties with Germany "We are not german, we are English" that happened about 1000 years ago? they then adopted symbols from other clans around the islands to break the link to germany. Thats why the English have very little culture. Maypole dancing? moris (moor) dancing? Stone hendge wasnt them, king arthur isnt them etc etc. The single lion on its own that sometimes appears on their coat of armour is Scotland I think
@@geroutathat no they aren’t, there’s no mention of Ireland and the three lions. Also they were adopted in England long after his death.
Also have you ever been to England “that’s why the English have very little culture” was this a joke? Showing just how little you know right here.
I have seen other versions of "Welsh" Union Jacks that don't include the Dragon. One replaced the blue in the lower field with green and as a result looked really goofy. The others I've seen incorporate the Cross of St. David to stick with the theme and look ... eye-searing, St. David's Gold on Black doesn't combine well with reds and blues.
As a Scottish person, I say just add a green stripe. The colours of wales are a green ribbon, a white ribbon and a red dragon. So add a green strip to the X of the union flag, as red, white and blue are already there for Scotland, England and Ireland.
I'm british btw iv been to Scotland before its rly rly cool
Damn Scot you ruined Scotland
*northern Ireland
@@lukesalvidge118 No Ireland. The Union Flag was updated when all of Irelnad was part of the UK (That second red cross) and it was never changed when the south left.
@@Twiska yes but it no longer represents the south, only the north.
Super informative, thanks!
Croeso!
ok 7:58 but have you considered how cool it'd be for the UK to have a Dragon in the flag?
As a Welshman I am not sure about inclusion on the Union Jack. The Cross of St David would just make a good looking flag look plain ugly. You cannot really put Yddraig Goch central on the Union Jack because like it or not England *is* the primary Nation of the UK, it represents some 75% of our population. Which really only leaves placing it in a quarter, which unbalances the whole thing. On the whole I am in the leave well enough alone camp here. Despite my frequent jokes to English friends that slapping a bloody great red dragon right in the centre of the flag would make it look better because dragons make *everything* look better!
When it comes to representation on the Royal Coat of Arms however, well that is a different matter entirely, and I am all for that. Whether Her Majesty will do it is arguable, but there is certainly precedence for an incoming Monarch to make changes to the Royal Coat of Arms.
As an Englishman, I think your flag is beautiful, and I would love to have such a wonderful flag. Of course it should be up to Welsh people whether the dragon should be on the union flag and/or coat of arms, but the dragon is such a bold symbol, I wonder if we would do him a disservice not leaving him to stand proudly on the green land that is Wales.
I'm English.. I totally agree, the Welsh dragon should be on the Royal coat of arms 👍🏴❤🏴 🇬🇧
Speaking as an Englishman, I say put the red dragon front and centre. It'd give the Union flag a 100% awesomeness upgrade!
I agree with that
'primary nation' is the whole problem here imo
I wouldn't want a change to the Union flag, personally I think it's the best flag in the world... though the precise geometry of the Nepalese flag is also incredible. However, one of the English segments of the Royal coat of arms should definitely be a red dragon, it just makes sense. I also think the Welsh flag is by far the best flag of the 4 nations... and I'm English.
It just stands out so much. And it's more of a scene. The white is the skies, the green is our land, and well, there's a dragon walking on it. It's like the entirety of wales saw the other countries' flags and said "lets get creative"
estonia flag better
@@korenaya Subjective, i personally love the Red Dragon and it's definetly one of the best flags in my opinion
I can hear my maternal grandmother applauding you. She was a Cardiff lass.
Its about size and history. The major events and struggles in the British Isles was between Scotland and England. It was all about uniting the kingdoms of Scotland and England that created Britain.
The Union flag is such an iconic and recognisable symbol, it would be insanity to change it now.
and at the end of the day Scotland took over England in 1603 we English are still muttering about this!!!
Possibly need to read a little more history - read Welsh history
Please keep doing these videos, i am welsh and ive never know so much about Wales before! These are great
oh my, went to click off after liking the video then saw this channel only has 570 subscribers and yet is producing videos of this quality fair play mate
Thank you so much, I really appreciate that
Last weekend, I was at an event where a Welsh person told me, "Wales is a province of England." Cambrian Chronicles said "country & dominion". I have lived in Canada all my life; I'm pretty confident that "country & dominion" does not equal province because provinces are the regions in the country & dominion. Maybe (some?) Welsh people are confused?
(Note: there was no reason for him to tell me this, it wasn't a cultural event or cultural venue or anything related specifically to culture.)
Unfortunately some people are just super uninformed, Wales has never been designated as a "province" for the exact reasons as you said. The Tudors named it as a country and a dominion, and it was also informally (and most commonly) referred to as a/the "principality" (despite the principality being abolished in 1536).
@@CambrianChronicles A video on the whole Principality nonsense would be helpful - could just link to it every time I encounter an idiot on Twitter 😂Is it correct that the whole of Cymru was never a Principality anyway, only part of it? Now if only that building society and stadium would change their names we could be done with it forever! 👍
Such an underrated youtuber
Thank you, I appreciate that
I would argue though that if the Welsh flag was ever incorporated into the Union Flag, it would look pretty ugly.
I mean the dragon would stand out way too much and probably would be viewed as the symbol of the UK and not as Wales being represented.
Better symbol than a boring old lion, which is overrepresented everywhere and is just emblematic of the Normans. Before it was a yellow or white dragon for England iirc.
@@iggyzeta9755 I don't entirely disagree with that. I am just saying that if they were to add the welsh dragon to the Union Flag it would stick out like a sore thumb.
But any symbol would also cause that problem anyways, because the Union Flag is perfect as it is.
Interesting video. One thing to note though is that the United Kingdom's flag is incorrectly called the Union Jack. It should be called the Union Flag. Correctly it is only called a Jack when flown on the jack staff on a Royal Navy ship. People who've served in the armed forces would know this just as they also know that it is not a symmetrical flag. It's incredible really that so many British citizens can't get the name of the flag correct or even know which way round to fly it.
I remember asking this at school, and my teacher told Wales (with a completely straight face) that was represented by the white bits.
No mention of the Cross of St David? All the other parts of the Union flag consist of different saints' crosses, not their heraldic animals: England's is the Cross of St George, Scotland's the Cross of St Andrew, and Ireland's the Cross of St Patrick. The problem though is that the Cross of St. David is gold on a black background, so its inclusion would profoundly change the Union flag's aesthetics.
Yeah it's using the Cross of the Saint that would make way more sense than the heraldic animal. But yeah the colors of black and gold won't work well with red, white and blue. It'll look off also kinda fascist.
it's not only that wales isn't on the union flag, ireland isn't part of the union any more and *northern* ireland has a different flag, so the diagonal red cross of ireland should technically be removed and replaced with that hand device that's on the n.i. flag as well, if we're meant to represent every region
I'm English, saw a design once of the union flag with the Welsh Dragon in the centre. I thought it looked the bollocks, I'd advocate for it.
Maybe you saw the representation of a 'suggested/proposed' Union Jack or Union Flag on Wikipedia (Flag of the United Kingdom) ? It's a small Dragon in the centre of the crosses and doesn't look too imposing or incorrect, I quite like it !
@@stewedfishproductions7959 Yeah that's the one 👍
It was a long wait, but Wales ended up with the coolest flag on the planet. I'm glad to see the red dragon owning the field.
I agree!
I have often thought that the Ddraig Goch should feature on the Union flag. Perhaps not quite as big as the one shown on the thumbnail, but right there in the middle, with all the stripes surrounding it. It would be the coolest flag EVER!
"And theres many watching this who don't want Wales to be on the Union jack"
This is a man who knows his audience! :D
First time coming across your channel/content - I look forward to the rest! [Subbed]
Cariad fawr o Cymru De x
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
When people say wales was never a country I always point to those 3 figures and said they were named king/prince of all of Wales at one point. So it did exist and only doesn’t know for the English wanted eliminate the culture due to several loses and welsh rebellions occurring to where they are better off not giving Welsh people a rally cry.
True, and as I said in my video there’s a very long legal precedent for Wales being called a country (with laws mentioning it as the ‘Country of Wales’ from 1284 to 1830), not to mention that the UK government still currently calls it a country!
@@welshman8954 Language is not a proof of origin rather a result of local factors. Realise that at one time current North West England shared its Language with North Wales whose language is different to South Wales and Cornwall but all of same origin. The word Lon meaning Lane is common in former East Lancashire and many other specific Welsh traditions used to exist. For example women would still be known by their maiden name which I found confusing with relations such as my grandmother when young.
I always thought it were French speaking Norman's that wanted to rule the whole island. In the name of the English granted but they were invaders to the English too.
Also Powys used to be a kingdom and it was way bigger stretching into what is now the English Midlands. As a Midlander this fascinates me and I am kinda proud of my Welsh friends and family. I wouldn't want to go anywhere I wasn't welcome though.
@@welshman8954 "the English are saxon and danish" this is simply not true. The Vikings, Anglo-Saxons and subsequent invaders/settlers had a much smaller impact on the overall genetic makeup of the people of the British Isles than a lot of people think. It wasn't like they genocided and/or supplanted the existing population. In reality, the English share much of the same ancestry as everybody else in the British isles; the biggest differences were cultural (adoption of anglo-saxon laws, language, etc) and that's the reason why England is seen as distinct from the rest of the UK nations.
The real history of these islands is far more complex and intriguing. Fun fact: If you're from South Wales you are more different, genetically speaking, to people from North Wales than the English and Scots are to each other. There is no one group of people who can say they are the "original Britons"
As an Englishman, I love our Welsh and Scottish neighbours (as well as our Northern Irish brothers and sisters) 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴
So do I, though I can never figure out why they want to have anything to do with us.
@@archvaldor Maybe taking there country has a little to do with it.
@@Lee-T1000 even though England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are part of the UK, each country within the union has it's own parliament and some levels of autonomy within their borders
@@ShuuuuutUp you're nice aren't ya
@@oliversherman2414 just honest mate
I am a Welshman, and while I never knew why our flag wasn’t on the Union Jack, and I still want it on the flag, I can definitely say I don’t personally know where it would go.
It’s the red bits
I as an Englishman would welcome the Welsh emblem it would be perfect, especially after removing the Scottish blue and white. I never understood why the Welsh wasnt represented in the union flag. very sad
Indeed i would love to see my country's flag🏴 removed of the current flag and the dissolution of the UK. There wud be no union jack and England and English people wud have to use their own flag 🏴 instead of hijacking the Union flag as their own. As well as not refer to Britain or the UK as England. I do notice particularly in sport they tend to use their own flag these days. You will never get a union jack at a Scottish national sport. Some football clubs supporters in Scotland do use the union jack but they identify as being British not Scottish. I am Scottish not British therefore would never display a UJ. My country's flag is 🏴🏴🏴 and the Lion Rampart not the UJ. I think the welsh flag is very nice indeed and although officially adopted as the flag of Wales in 1959 it has historical credibility as the Welsh flag being used by the then independence Princes of Wales before Wales was annexed into England by that horrible vicious Edward I in 1284 and then legally incorporated into the kingdom of England by Henry 8th in 1534. It, was the banner and emblem of the Welsh Henry Tudor who became king of England, first of the Tudor monarchs and to my knowledge (?) to actually visit Wales. The Tudors were Welsh. England's last English king was Richard III. In 1603 the Scottish Stewarts /Stuarts took over and were the family who brough about the Union of 1707 . Like the Tudi before them they neglected and forgot about their ancient Kingdom of Scotland where they had ruled for 336 (343 in total counting the 7 years as Great Britain years) and only 104 in England. Indeed the Stewarts /Stuarts are the longest ruling Dynasty in the British Isles producing 15 monarchs in direct succession. This included 2 King Roberts, II and III, 7 James. 2 Charles, I and II 2 Queen Mary's I and II, William II /III and Queen Anne who was the last monarch of both Scotland and England and the first if Great Britain in 1707
The
Totally agree, while your at it you can give all the financial benefits back, Scotland is so hard done too especially if you compare how Wales is treated. Time to build the wall, to keep the likes of wee Jimmy cranky and Hezbollah Patriots out.
What about the St. David's Cross? Is that used to represent Wales at all?
4:51 That sounds like a kindergarten argument:
- I am king!
- Then I am Prince, which is higher than King.
- I will call my kids “prince” so people associate it with a lower rank.
Wales is a land of magic and myth and has the best flag, national anthem and scenery
You should pay a visit to Scotland buddy boy.
I wonder what will happen "if" scotland leaves the union? Will the flag change or stay the same? Maybe the welsh dragon will be added on to it?
Or maybe Wales will leave as well and have its own flag and independence!
Named after his k/d ration, damn, got me there haha, insta subbed
Haha thank you!
Thank you for this clear and concise video. The research and the editing could not have been easy. Well done! BTW, 1959: coolest flag ever!
Thank you so much, I really appreciate that!
The Irish Saltire is offset to avoid slighting the Scottish Saltire. How do you add Welsh representation to the Union Flag without slighting an element that is already there?
"The red dragon of Cadwaladr" what an interesting rabbit hole that turned out to be 😂
I have really enjoyed these videos on Wales. It wasn't until I was in Army and spent time in what was then West Germany and had a few buddies in the British Army who told me my surname was Welch. I never knew. A few years later some cousins did a genealogy search which seemed to confirm it. But I have to be honest and say that I have a hard time trying to pronounce these words. Did the Welsh ever hear about using Vowels once in a while?😅😅 This is a great video and have enjoyed them all. Keep up the great work. Even if I can't pronounce any of the words.
Welsh has plenty of vowels...it's just that the language was shoehorned into the Latin alphabet, unlike normal Hebrew which _is_ written without vowels (unless an obscure pronunciation when the vowel pointings are inserted into the consonants).
@@cigmorfil4101 I was being sarcastic
This is an excellent well researched video. As a Welsh boy growing up in Swansea in thev1970s and 80s, I wondered why there was :
1 an English/german man with the title " Prince of Wales"
2. Why we were not on the monarch's court of Arms.
3. Why we were not part of the union flag.
4. Why the fuck when I studied O level History in 1983-4, why it was all about England, with 4 weeks devoted to Welsh history.
Ironically, Wales was the first industrialised nation on earth, not England, yet those fuckers take the credit.
Irrespective of this, I have always felt Welsh to my core. My soul is completely Welsh. Culturally Wales has a unique distinctive quality which has never left me, even though ive now been in England most of my adult life.
“Well about 389 million minutes ago” lmao
firstly, as a welsh person named Owain, its so nice to hear you nail the pronunciation, i hate being called Owen XD secondly, i love how wales has kinda evolved from wanting to be on the union jack to, a surprisingly large amount wanting to leave the UK. In the MCU wales is independent which is pretty cool also!
the fuck is the MCU?
@@lasigh3883 wales is a country what ?
@@bierwolf8360 marvel cinematic universe, in black panther the UN has wales as a independent country witch is pretty cool
@@lasigh3883 I mean if the Vatican City is a country, wales has every right to be, we pretty much do everything ourself, we run our own country pretty much, House of Commons and the uk government doesn’t do much for wales. So you know
@@lasigh3883 and by your logic Greenland, the whole uk, Hong Kong and others are not real countries as they aren’t sovereign states
I actually sent a request to Mark Drakeford (first minister of Wales) to include Wales in Union Jack...
Love the bold and proud Welsh flag! My 1 Welsh ancestor came to the USA about 1750 from Cardiff, that paternal line going straight back to Richard Blewitt Edwards, the illegitimate son of Henry VIII. The rest of me is of Irish descent, but this tiny percentage and that beautiful dragon flag draws me to Wales for a visit someday!!!
That’s very cool, I hope you enjoy it when you visit in the future!
As an Englishman, the dragon is so bold, that it would be almost unfair to merge it into a stripy multicoloured arrangement. It looks great as it is, and symbolises welsh spirit well by being separate to the union flag.
Iam from Brisbane Queensland, Australia, Hello Ed.
As another American with a small amount of Welsh descent, I like the flag, too! Also, its remarkable that your Welsh blood is also _royal_ blood!
Thanks for sharing this!
Imagine if the Union Jack did include Welsh representation and you were either a colonial subject or being colonised by Britain and you see the flag. Just how intimidating would that be? I could imagine the Americans villifying the flag saying how it represented British tyranny more so than in our own world.
☠☠☠
so you are saying we can pretend welsh troups werent part of it if they arent on the flag?
What about American tyranny? Do they represent Hawaii on their flag?
@@vintageadventure-l6m So they represent the invasion of Hawaii.
@@vintageadventure-l6mwhat was I wrong about, I just asked a question lol
Is there anything stopping someone from flying a flag that composes the current union flag and elements of the Welsh flag? Just curious. It seems like there would be a market, throughout the UK, and even abroad.
Great explanation! Very interesting. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, I’m glad you enjoyed!
Why do you Cymraeg?
Adding the dragon to the Union Jack would look wrong but adding it to the coat of arms might work.
Perhaps, given Wales’ supposedly inferior status to England, Scotland, and Ireland, it could be on an enté en point (a small bit at the bottom middle of the shield) much like how Granada is depicted on the Spanish coat of arms, though the small size might mean it’s better for it it to just be the red dragon’s head “couped” (on its own) rather than the whole dragon
The
Though personally I’m all for the four lions of Gwynedd replacing the second set of Anglo-Norman lions in the lower sinister quarter.
Interesting. While I was viewing the video, the treatment of Granada on the Spanish coat of arms also came to kind.
@@je-freenorman7787 A dragon which is mythological creature does not seem appropriate on a flag comprised of three Christian crosses.
@@je-freenorman7787 In the story of Saint George and the dragon, the dragon is an evil entity as it is with Saint Michael. It would be totally inappropriate on a flag with three Christian crosses.
@@je-freenorman7787 I wish you well.
I would have liked to have seen the Saint David’s cross adopted as the official welsh flag as it would then better accompany the other 3 nations Saint’s flags
Counter: England, Northern Ireland and Scotland should have dragons on their flags
Saint David’s cross would definitely be more aesthetically coherent with the other flags, but I personally find the Welsh dragon much more interesting.
Nope. Thats A Christian flag.
@@CR1MSONACE We've got a nice Red Hand in NI. Very handy for stopping traffic.
@@Cyberbeagle1000 In wales they just burn traffic
"Wales did not cease to exist" if you want to open another can of worms the same can be said for Cornwall which was never conquered by Wessex and was illegally annexed to England, originally a kingdom in its own right like Wales that predated England, later to become a Duchy with plenty of historical "royal" references stating that the Duchy is extraterritorial to England..
It’s very interesting, I’d love to cover Cornwall one day but I’m not as well versed on its history as I am with Wales’s
Can Wales and Cornwall unite? They're both Brythonic
The Duchy is not limited to Cornwall though as its territory is spread throughout the South West as far east as Bath
@@CambrianChronicles
AI W is ill informed
By 1066 Cornwall was part of England under the Anglo-Saxons (Earl Godwin of Wessex and his son King Harold being major land holders) and that control was consolidated by the Normans.
Not clear how in a time of almost constant warfare between rival kingdoms Cornwall was illegally annexed. I suppose England was illegally annexed by the Normans.
The Duchy of Cornwall does not comprise the whole of Cornwall - infact only about 13% of the Duchy is Cornish with the majority of the estate in Devon and other counties. So even if the Duchy was 'extraterritorial' to England - Cornwall isn't. However, Cornwall is informally referred to as the Duchy on occasion.
@@KateeAngel we already are, it's called the United Kingdom (got a couple of other places in it as well).
2:13 I had to pause and cackle. So thanks!
I think the best way Wales could be represented is having a yellow cross within the English cross part of the flag, as this would represent St David’s flag. However I think the flag is so iconic that this design wouldn’t sit right with many. So as much as I think wales should be represented on the flag (I’m English btw) I don’t think it should happen from a design perspective
No leave us off it, we are fine with our own flag, the Union Jack looks good as it is
@finlaywilliams4746 That would make the Union flag very similar to the flag of Guernsey, which has the yellow cross of Normandy inside the English cross of St George. It looks quite good!
Regardless of the politics, from a purely design and aesthetics stance, a dragon of any colour doesn't fit with the very balanced crosses and colours scheme that is the Union Flag; it would ruin the flag. The welsh dragon is a great symbol but it is a very strong one that does not lend itself to mixing.
why dont they put a green below?
Reworking the simple union jack to have the more different design style and format of the Welsh flag is quite difficult since the union jack is just a composition of 2 bisecting lines on a solid colour background with different colours, hence the good style and look it has overall; as opposed to the Welsh design of a bicolour with a complex design in the middle. The best design I can think up on a whim is a union jack with some of the blue background replaced with green triangles, but that's still very iffy even from my end.
Welsh inclusion on the coat of arms is something very viable, doable, and simple, so that should be very much considered.
Just make the bottom half of blue parts green.
If you redesign it for the inclusion of Wales you also have to remove the St. Patrick's cross (X) of "Ireland" as that "Kingdom" no longer exists and Northern Ireland uses a similar design to the St George's cross.
I personally don't really want the dragon on the Union Jack, but its a goddamn dragon!
The history of our lack of representation also pains me but, it's neat to know that Wales didn't just 'cease to exist' after the annexation and we were more like a somewhat independent colony.
Edit: Idea, we could replace one of the blue corners with green.