Very nice John. Single point threading on the lathe is one of my favorite things to do. Nice demonstration of a multi start thread. And the video was longer than the intro this time, LOL. Can't wait for the next one.
I've seen a video of some russian guy making a worm wheel using a tap. I have always wanted to try that! Was there a reason why you needed it to be left handed?
John, have made a few taps over the years myself, usually out of old annealed round files. Scaling is a problem when heat treating, so next time, I will use your Borax method of stopping it. Thank you for that tip.
I appreciate the video and you sharing the results of your experimentation. I was told that making taps was far more trouble than its worth but you've shown its no different than any home made tool provided one has the proper tooling and some basic knowledge. I don't have the setup to make these but if I did, I would have very much liked to see a 10 second or so very close up shot of the finished cutter (preferably with a bit of camera rotation to the shot to see different angles of the cutter) to give an extremely good idea of the flute proportions and relief cuts.
Hello from the States and thanks for an excellent video. You explanations are very enlightening and are appreciated. Best of luck and we'll certainly be following your videos.
Hey, Chris, I doubt if you will see this, but while I AM subscribed to you, I have to keep subbing and I can't get notifications. When I click the bell thing it tells me there is a network error 404... I know that there are at least a handful of guys having the same problem. I can't comment on your videos either. I've never had a problem with TH-cam, I'm not a troll or anything, I've been following you since nearly the beginning of your channel. Anyway thought you should know. Keep up the good work. BOTH of you. I really like and appreciate both of these channels. I'm newer here, but will catch up over the next few weeks....
Great job! Nice commentary - I always appreciate it more when videos go into the successes and failures of a project. Things dont always go right the first time (for me at least!) and its important to recognise that after all life is pretty much a learning process! . Excellent ending by the way - happens to me all the time too!
Used to make taps out of bolts enough to carve a little thread . Back when I was a teen, for that matter I still do it usually for thread chasers and cleaners.
That is a lot of work (technicality and experience). Most of the guys will mess up. I shall buy tap. Thanks for the video, which will no doubt teach the core machinists.
Nice Video John! I've made several double lead Acme nuts out of Aluminum Bronze, but I haven't made a triple lead. Thanks for the Awesome Tips. 👍👍👍💪💪💪👊👊👊😊😊😊
Good effort John. Just my ten pence for what its worth. The reason why your tap binds is because the flutes are in the wrong place. If you look carefully down the end of factory made taps you will notice that the flutes do not run down the centre but are offset in the direction of cut. This is to give the cutting edge a more positive rake, otherwise they wil rub their way through the workpiece rather than cut, almost like displacement threading. The plane of the leading edge should be directly in line with the centre, or axis of the tap, which means that the end mill used to cut the flutes should be offset from the centre line by half it's diameter, i.e. it's radius. The peaks of the threads should be reduced back behind the cutting edge to give clearance. The tap should then cut with a lot less effort. Holding the workpiece in a collet rather than a chuck would avoid the distortion problem. Love those pens by the way.
I was thinking it was binding because the actual thread form on the tap has no clearance on the backside. The only back clearance he has put in it is for the lead on the tap, but the thread form on the grind has 0 degree relief. I think that would need to be offset ground with a 60 degree thread form wheel.
I agree with Max about cutting the flute. The other thing you might try is to make the flutes wider; the threads narrower. You only need enough of the thread there to achieve some strength. Ozzie
I took machine tooling in highschool but that was 20+ yes ago. Not to give away my age. Worked as a welder many yrs. Now I am trying to get into blade smithing. Anyway not everyone can afford a small machine shop or like me no place to put the few tools I have now. I have several times purchased a grade 5 or 8 bolt the right size. Then I will use a angle grinder to cut the flutes. Then above the flutes I grind the threads down for relief. I have used them just like that to tap hard woods when making my wood clamps. Then one day I needed to tap some aluminium and it worked ok but dulled after doing a few holes. So I tossed in my forge and heat treated it then re sharped. It worked great I have 5 or 6 different sizes made up. I haven't taped hard steel but I have chased threads in steel to clean and repair old threads. Job well done I would do same way as you if I had the equipment. But thought I would throw a idea out there for all of us poor folk.
Don't feel bad, not many people actually need machine tool's, most hobbyists spend a ton of money on machine tools with out a clue what they are going to build with them, chew up a few pieces of metal & sell them at a loss. I have used the method you have described many times even tho I have a full machine shop. Keep up the good work.
Really nice job! I've always found I get neater threads in really tough steel by swinging the compound slide around to 30 degrees from the cross slide. Advancing the cutter at that angle means you are cutting, essentially, one side of the thread and just cleaning up the other. Zero the cross slide dial at the outside diameter of the thread and use the compound slide to advance. When you back out after each pass, you use the cross slide and just come back to zero, then advance the compound slide. This works especially well on really fine threads.
Pushing straight in doesn't appear to affect the way the tool cuts. It's nice to use the compound to set the thread depth though so I prefer the technique you mentioned for standard threads.
John Creasey: You can use a DTI to increment very accurately for your multi start thread cutting, and by setting over at half the thread angle you will not be rubbing on the back of the thread form, as you are wen plunge cutting. Chris B.
In 2017, I love this channel for its absence of self-promotion, patreon and DeWalt advertisements. Let's see if this still holds once we're past the 10k subscriber mark.
Budding home machinist. Love the video. Subscribed. Great to read fellow craftsmen and their thoughts. So much to learn. Congratulations. Oh, by the way... you spelled center wrong. Lol & grinning
When I was in college one of my assignments was to make a male acme 4 tpi. I made a double start acme 2 tpi, both male and female and my instructor was blown away. It made it into the display case and not many items get in there. To make it I just used a 4 jaw chuck and a lathe dog and indexed it 180.
Very slick using the compound to offset the tool for the additional starts, I've never seen that before. It seems to me that if you still wanted to use the compound at the classic 30 degrees, you could do the offset using trig or an indicator set parallel to the axis, but I don't even know if you'd usually feed with the compound anyway.
Rob Mckennie The tool cuts on the left when you plunge it anyway so I don't think it makes much difference. Joe Piezinski has some good videos on the subject. His channel is worth checking out if you don't know it.
John Creasey I'll second that. I love how many different channels we have with how many different approaches to explaining the many ways to skin a part.
It is actually quite simple to make a three start thread in the "conventional" manner between centers. Just cut a fresh center in the 3jaw, then just use the jaws as the dog stop. You can also make 2 or 4 start threads on with a 4jaw. On most imperial lathes, you can cut a 2 start by engaging the half nut between the lines also.
A very nice job there John, I am surprised that you plunge cut the thread form seeing that it is for a tap, setting the compound over and going in at half the thread angle would give you a much better thread form, but you ended up with a very nice 4 start tap anyway, I always let the hardened tap down to dark straw, which would be a bit harder than the blue that you went down to, but you will be using this on Ebonite I would think for your Pen project, (a Ford Patent or Onoto pen I hope). Very many thanks for posting this, Subscribed!
Hi, I normally do offset the compound for thread cutting but in this case I was using it to offset the tool for the multi starts. My pen is going to be made from metal. I do have some ebonite though so I might try that sometime! WRT tempering, do you normally quench or let it air cool? I quenched it because I was impatient and nothing bad happened. It is very hard. I tested it with hardness files and it was about 60 rockwell. I've used it to cut a thread in 431 stainless and it worked fine! Thanks for watching and thanks for the feedback! I don't know why this video is getting so many views!!
Hello John: You are getting good views because this is an excellent tutorial on a subject that a lot of people want information on, a confidence boost if you like. You are making the pen in metal ! Then your tap will need to be tough, which you have proven that it is, it is just that when I make taps from Silver Steel I have found that tempering to blue has been too soft to reliably use on cutting steel, I always quench in water, air cooling is not very consistent with Silver Steel I find. One thing which you probably already know is that when you tap the cap of your pen, you need to do that before you turn it to "thinness" otherwise it just distorts and gives you a mysteriously tight thread, Chris B.
first time here, like your video as it moves along nicely. I am faced with making a tap but I don't have a grinder like yours (yet). What do you think about me turning the 2° taper on the end of the tap blank before I thread it and then just relieve the back of the teeth after by eye and ordinary bench grinder after hardening?
Interesting information. Thank you. I do have one question, though. Is there a reason why you ground the taper on the front versus cutting it with the mill? That seems easier to me, and it is making me think there is an good reason for the choice you made that I'm just not getting.
To cut well the cutting edge needs to be at an angle to the surface. If you just cut a taper it would be tangential to the surface and no pressure would build up on the tip. It wold be like having a knife with a flat tip. I ground them on a rotating fixture in the grinder, but I did not grind all the way round. I stopped early so the surface slopes backwards from the cutting edge.
Hi Emgee, to get them to cut well you need to give them some back relief. I do that by grinding at an angle but stopping before I get to the top so the top is at an angle. You might be able to do it as you describe but you would probably need to touch it up with an off hand grinder afterwards.
@@CreaseysWorkshop When using the ball nose to cut the flutes best start off centre, only leave a grinding allowance on for grinding, keep the cutting edge at true centre of tap .
Hi John, very good video. I am just learning to do three point starts and incrementing the cross slide by one third of the pitch is a great way of getting the job done. thank you. I note that you stated that the half nuts should not be disengaged because it is a metric thread. I presume you have an imperial lead screw?? if the lathe has a metric lead screw or you have a 100/123 gear train the half nuts can be released and still be able to use the thread indicator - it works on my lathe.
Yes! I did try that once already but I used the tap to cut the threads for the die. There are two problems with that. 1. it blunts the tap (drill rod doesn't really seem to cope with 4140 steel very well) 2. it produces a horrible looking thread with lots of lines through it. What I have done is to single point turn a nice thread that works well with a nut that I have made using the tap. I will then use that as a model to single point an internal thread in some 4140 that I can then harden. I think that should produce a better result. The external thread needs to look nice as it is an obvious part of the pen. I'll try to make another video of making a die if it works out ok.
I found this interesting. It probably works best when used in soft material. You are using what looks like an Erickson tool holder in a square 5 c collet block. Is that something that you made our did you purchase it. Thank you. Charles
YOUR FISHING CHANNEL it’s a map gas torch. Almost the same as propane. The bricks make a big difference. They are just kiln bricks from a pottery supply shop.
Very cool vid. Thanx. I suppose this could work in a jam. I've noticed the entire length of the thread profile should have radial clearance from the start of the cutting edge radially to the start of the following flute. In other words mic the cutting diameter of a bought tap and twist in the cutting direction and the thread diameter should decrease. Without radial clearance and the tap begins to dull the cutting edge and a lack of radial relief will sort of burnish and press its way through the material causing more and more friction (grab) than the web between the flutes can handle. snap. Not saying this to be a wise guy. I couldn't do that radial relief at home either ;- )
Hi John,I'm doing my best to learn everything I can about tool cuttters/grinders before I make my purchase. What type of grinder do you use and what can you say about grinders?Thanks,Gray Smith
The "back gears" mentioned in the video just give the lathe an extra slow speed. It used to be a standard thing but I don't think modern chinese lathes have back gears anymore.
Marcel Hebert actually I tried doing it that way and it did work, however I found that it was not good for the tap and the thread it made wasn't very pretty. I really need a nice looking male thread so I have just been single pointing them. I plan to try again to make a die but I will cut the thread on my lathe and use some of the thread I cut already as a gauge so I know it is the right size.
John Creasey: What you could do is screwcut the initial thread, then just clean it up with your tap, that way you would put a lot less stress on your gem of a tap, and still get a perfect match for your mating threads.
Just a question John, did you not consider turning the taper end in the lathe, then cleaning up in the finishing stage? I have never made a tap , but that is the style I like, a two or three flute with a slight taper on the flute for chip breaking. Cheers, enjoyed the vid.
howder1951 hi, the end taper is ground so that it can stop behind the cutting face instead if tangent to it. This gives it a relief clearance angle and helps it cut better.
I thought it was just part of your accent. Hope you didn't get a cold in that fine British summer. OOPs is see you are from Australia, you were in the middle of winter. A couple of word pronunciations made me question the whole British location, so I looked at your profile. It was how you pronounce beautifully and perfect. I guess you were getting a cold to sound British. LOL A drop or two of cutting oil would have helped that squeak. Great job on making the tap, especially a 3 start tap. You, sir, are a machinist.
Thanks for watching. My parents are both British so I probably have a bit of a mix of accents. I have tried the tap a few times with a bit of cutting oil and not squeezed in a chuck and it cuts very well.
They are usually called a D-Bit grinder. They were originally made by Deckel but imported copies are everywhere. Handy tool for sharpening drills, lathe tools, slitting saws, end mills and D-bits! You could probably do the same job with a bench grinder but that would take a bit more skill.
@@hazimesahe Well, not that i actually explained anything but you can actually build a multi use machine using two old blocks. Why use old engine blocks? Easy to get hold of, heavy = sturdy, and with the cylinders you have a perfect straight 90 deg in relation to the deck. So you use this and put in bearings, matched to a shaft (like the rod out of a shock absorber) and you have the beginnings of a lathe. This is based on some project i saw years ago, i forget the name but google it and you'll find it. Obviously not like the one being used in the above video but hey. When we dont money, we get creative!!
@@mikescudder4621 or we can use the paddled powered lather that Grandpa Amu made, I might actually use that and probably find an unused engine to power the thing
Very nice John. Single point threading on the lathe is one of my favorite things to do. Nice demonstration of a multi start thread. And the video was longer than the intro this time, LOL. Can't wait for the next one.
Outstanding! Thanks for sharing. You made it so clear, even a guy like me who has never done this sort of thing before can see how it's done!
I made a left hand 3mm thread tap for hobbing a worm wheel, was amazed when it worked.Good job john.
I've seen a video of some russian guy making a worm wheel using a tap. I have always wanted to try that! Was there a reason why you needed it to be left handed?
John, have made a few taps over the years myself, usually out of old annealed round files. Scaling is a problem when heat treating, so next time, I will use your Borax method of stopping it. Thank you for that tip.
Rat tail files... what a great idea! Always good to recycle!
Great video John. You make it look so easy!
I appreciate the video and you sharing the results of your experimentation. I was told that making taps was far more trouble than its worth but you've shown its no different than any home made tool provided one has the proper tooling and some basic knowledge. I don't have the setup to make these but if I did, I would have very much liked to see a 10 second or so very close up shot of the finished cutter (preferably with a bit of camera rotation to the shot to see different angles of the cutter) to give an extremely good idea of the flute proportions and relief cuts.
I can watch this kind of work being done all day long. Good show.
Very nice John, thanks for taking the time to share with us.
Hello from the States and thanks for an excellent video. You explanations are very enlightening and are appreciated. Best of luck and we'll certainly be following your videos.
Triple the thread, triple the fun! Very cool... and informative, thanks! 😎😀👍
Great job John, looking forward to the pen project!
WOW!
Thanks Chris!!!!
Clickspring love seeing one of my favorite you tubers on other videos I watch!
Hey, Chris, I doubt if you will see this, but while I AM subscribed to you, I have to keep subbing and I can't get notifications. When I click the bell thing it tells me there is a network error 404...
I know that there are at least a handful of guys having the same problem.
I can't comment on your videos either.
I've never had a problem with TH-cam, I'm not a troll or anything, I've been following you since nearly the beginning of your channel.
Anyway thought you should know.
Keep up the good work.
BOTH of you. I really like and appreciate both of these channels. I'm newer here, but will catch up over the next few weeks....
Hey CHris, when can we expect something new from you?
Three times a charm.
An old saying I use in my shop all too often.
Great job! Nice commentary - I always appreciate it more when videos go into the successes and failures of a project. Things dont always go right the first time (for me at least!) and its important to recognise that after all life is pretty much a learning process! . Excellent ending by the way - happens to me all the time too!
Thanks! It’s hard to include mistakes because you really need to cut out so much to keep the video interesting.
Used to make taps out of bolts enough to carve a little thread . Back when I was a teen, for that matter I still do it usually for thread chasers and cleaners.
That is a lot of work (technicality and experience). Most of the guys will mess up. I shall buy tap. Thanks for the video, which will no doubt teach the core machinists.
Fascinating and very informative video, I take it the tap tool is sprung loaded and guides the tap in while applying constant pressure, thank you.
Thanks for sharing the learning curve, too. Great vid.
Nice Video John! I've made several double lead Acme nuts out of Aluminum Bronze, but I haven't made a triple lead. Thanks for the Awesome Tips. 👍👍👍💪💪💪👊👊👊😊😊😊
This is a very advanced project, not for the faint of heart, but you make it look simple.
Enjoyed! Well done and great videography :)
Top Work. I once used a similar method to make a taper reamer. Sometimes I find making the tools more satisfying than making the actual job.
This is great. I may end up making my very own cutting tools
Well done John, great looking tap
That came out beautiful!!! Chris
When you got the tools you want to make things. Great job.
Nicely done ! Very interesting.. Thanks for sharing
Great work I like your channel and you do pretty authentic stuff congrats.
Must have missed this one John - very nice job. Love that cutter/grinder... yummy.
A very handy tool indeed! - Thanks for watching Chris.
Good effort John. Just my ten pence for what its worth. The reason why your tap binds is because the flutes are in the wrong place. If you look carefully down the end of factory made taps you will notice that the flutes do not run down the centre but are offset in the direction of cut. This is to give the cutting edge a more positive rake, otherwise they wil rub their way through the workpiece rather than cut, almost like displacement threading. The plane of the leading edge should be directly in line with the centre, or axis of the tap, which means that the end mill used to cut the flutes should be offset from the centre line by half it's diameter, i.e. it's radius. The peaks of the threads should be reduced back behind the cutting edge to give clearance. The tap should then cut with a lot less effort. Holding the workpiece in a collet rather than a chuck would avoid the distortion problem. Love those pens by the way.
I was thinking it was binding because the actual thread form on the tap has no clearance on the backside. The only back clearance he has put in it is for the lead on the tap, but the thread form on the grind has 0 degree relief. I think that would need to be offset ground with a 60 degree thread form wheel.
I agree with Max about cutting the flute. The other thing you might try is to make the flutes wider; the threads narrower. You only need enough of the thread there to achieve some strength.
Ozzie
Very interesting video. I've learned something new today :D !! Thanks.
Nicely Done, John.
Amazing tap and very brave tapping brass with no lube!
you are a very successful man. congratulations on your accomplishments.!!!
Impressive piece of work. The ending, with the wife walking in on the filming session, was a very familiar scenario for me.
Nice build and good video!
Mate I feel like an idiot not ever thinking to use that ruler trick for finding center on round stock, that’s a fantastic tip
Great video mate. Well done, Your tap works very well! You have my full respect - Thumbs up! :-)
Great performance John, will follow your procedure!
Thanks for watching Milan!
excellent! very instructive.
great material! thanks
I took machine tooling in highschool but that was 20+ yes ago. Not to give away my age. Worked as a welder many yrs. Now I am trying to get into blade smithing. Anyway not everyone can afford a small machine shop or like me no place to put the few tools I have now. I have several times purchased a grade 5 or 8 bolt the right size. Then I will use a angle grinder to cut the flutes. Then above the flutes I grind the threads down for relief. I have used them just like that to tap hard woods when making my wood clamps. Then one day I needed to tap some aluminium and it worked ok but dulled after doing a few holes. So I tossed in my forge and heat treated it then re sharped. It worked great I have 5 or 6 different sizes made up. I haven't taped hard steel but I have chased threads in steel to clean and repair old threads.
Job well done I would do same way as you if I had the equipment. But thought I would throw a idea out there for all of us poor folk.
Don't feel bad, not many people actually need machine tool's, most hobbyists spend a ton of money on machine tools with out a clue what they are going to build with them, chew up a few pieces of metal & sell them at a loss.
I have used the method you have described many times even tho I have a full machine shop. Keep up the good work.
Wow! You've made a splash with this one, John! That tap is amazing, you make me want to get into metal working :~)
Bill Kibby haha Bill. You should it's awesome!
When you have the tools working in metal can be quite satisfying.
Really nice job! I've always found I get neater threads in really tough steel by swinging the compound slide around to 30 degrees from the cross slide. Advancing the cutter at that angle means you are cutting, essentially, one side of the thread and just cleaning up the other. Zero the cross slide dial at the outside diameter of the thread and use the compound slide to advance. When you back out after each pass, you use the cross slide and just come back to zero, then advance the compound slide. This works especially well on really fine threads.
The compound is at 90 degrees because this is a triple start thread.
I use it all o offset the tool for the second and third starts.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Pushing straight in doesn't appear to affect the way the tool cuts.
It's nice to use the compound to set the thread depth though so I prefer the technique you mentioned for standard threads.
John Creasey: You can use a DTI to increment very accurately for your multi start thread cutting, and by setting over at half the thread angle you will not be rubbing on the back of the thread form, as you are wen plunge cutting. Chris B.
@@CreaseysWorkshop You should be able to index using the jaws on the chuck...
nice job:-)... thanks for upload and sharring with us
In 2017, I love this channel for its absence of self-promotion, patreon and DeWalt advertisements. Let's see if this still holds once we're past the 10k subscriber mark.
I was planning another 10 minutes of please subscribe begging at the end but my wife came home and caught me playing with her camera!
John Creasey the end is my favourite bit.
I found your cannel after I lost months ago. Thanks for sharing.
Budding home machinist. Love the video. Subscribed. Great to read fellow craftsmen and their thoughts. So much to learn. Congratulations.
Oh, by the way... you spelled center wrong.
Lol & grinning
No# 477 project to copy.... AWESOME!
Good result on a triple entry tap...
Glad you use and enjoy the tap follower... ;)
I really love it. I also really love my special hammer. You guys make wonderful tools!
Great job mate, looks tricky to make but you nailed it 👍
Thanks for checking out my channel Dirk!
John Creasey No worries mate, that's great work 👍
nice video John,very well explained...keep up the great videos.and i just subscribed to many more i hope...see you next time.....
Good work!
When I was in college one of my assignments was to make a male acme 4 tpi. I made a double start acme 2 tpi, both male and female and my instructor was blown away. It made it into the display case and not many items get in there. To make it I just used a 4 jaw chuck and a lathe dog and indexed it 180.
Yeah that’s a better way to do it. I didn’t know that at the time though.
incredible
really very good job
Good job!!
Great video
i ramble on then stop quite a bit my self lol thanks for sharing :)
My wife seems to have some kind of uncanny way of knowing when I am rambling too much and interrupting me!
I see that you and your old friend (the laht), works well together.
Nice project :)
this was great
the virgin surface grinding machine vs the chad bench grinder and "eh good enough"
Oh and super Job.
fantastic! i'm off to make left and right M25 * 2 taps. oooh can't wait. cheers fella
itanc1 awesome!
Very slick using the compound to offset the tool for the additional starts, I've never seen that before. It seems to me that if you still wanted to use the compound at the classic 30 degrees, you could do the offset using trig or an indicator set parallel to the axis, but I don't even know if you'd usually feed with the compound anyway.
Rob Mckennie The tool cuts on the left when you plunge it anyway so I don't think it makes much difference. Joe Piezinski has some good videos on the subject. His channel is worth checking out if you don't know it.
John Creasey I'll second that. I love how many different channels we have with how many different approaches to explaining the many ways to skin a part.
It is actually quite simple to make a three start thread in the "conventional" manner between centers.
Just cut a fresh center in the 3jaw, then just use the jaws as the dog stop. You can also make 2 or 4 start threads on with a 4jaw.
On most imperial lathes, you can cut a 2 start by engaging the half nut between the lines also.
Very nicely done John! Congratulations on > 100000 views, I don't have any even close to that.
ATB, Robin
Thankyou very much for watching Robin!
I definitely got lucky I think. Your videos are great.
cheers,
John.
A very nice job there John, I am surprised that you plunge cut the thread form seeing that it is for a tap, setting the compound over and going in at half the thread angle would give you a much better thread form, but you ended up with a very nice 4 start tap anyway, I always let the hardened tap down to dark straw, which would be a bit harder than the blue that you went down to, but you will be using this on Ebonite I would think for your Pen project, (a Ford Patent or Onoto pen I hope). Very many thanks for posting this, Subscribed!
Hi, I normally do offset the compound for thread cutting but in this case I was using it to offset the tool for the multi starts.
My pen is going to be made from metal. I do have some ebonite though so I might try that sometime!
WRT tempering, do you normally quench or let it air cool? I quenched it because I was impatient and nothing bad happened. It is very hard. I tested it with hardness files and it was about 60 rockwell. I've used it to cut a thread in 431 stainless and it worked fine!
Thanks for watching and thanks for the feedback! I don't know why this video is getting so many views!!
Hello John: You are getting good views because this is an excellent tutorial on a subject that a lot of people want information on, a confidence boost if you like. You are making the pen in metal ! Then your tap will need to be tough, which you have proven that it is, it is just that when I make taps from Silver Steel I have found that tempering to blue has been too soft to reliably use on cutting steel, I always quench in water, air cooling is not very consistent with Silver Steel I find. One thing which you probably already know is that when you tap the cap of your pen, you need to do that before you turn it to "thinness" otherwise it just distorts and gives you a mysteriously tight thread, Chris B.
FROM IRAQ WELL DONE
Nice job
first time here, like your video as it moves along nicely. I am faced with making a tap but I don't have a grinder like yours (yet). What do you think about me turning the 2° taper on the end of the tap blank before I thread it and then just relieve the back of the teeth after by eye and ordinary bench grinder after hardening?
I would just grind it by hand.
Good stuff
Cool!
Will you also be making a matching die?
Joel C. Salomon Yes definitely.
Nice job John! LOL, your wife must have known you were recording :).
thecogwheel I don't know how she does it!!!
Interesting to see how it's done. Why didn't you cut the taper on the lathe before hardening it?
If you machine a taper there will be no clearance angle behind the cutting edge and the tap will not cut.
Interesting information. Thank you. I do have one question, though. Is there a reason why you ground the taper on the front versus cutting it with the mill? That seems easier to me, and it is making me think there is an good reason for the choice you made that I'm just not getting.
To cut well the cutting edge needs to be at an angle to the surface. If you just cut a taper it would be tangential to the surface and no pressure would build up on the tip. It wold be like having a knife with a flat tip. I ground them on a rotating fixture in the grinder, but I did not grind all the way round. I stopped early so the surface slopes backwards from the cutting edge.
Hi John, you could turn the taper lead-in before cutting the threads in the lathe, save you grinding unless you want to touch-up for sharpness.
Hi Emgee, to get them to cut well you need to give them some back relief. I do that by grinding at an angle but stopping before I get to the top so the top is at an angle.
You might be able to do it as you describe but you would probably need to touch it up with an off hand grinder afterwards.
@@CreaseysWorkshop When using the ball nose to cut the flutes best start off centre, only leave a grinding allowance on for grinding, keep the cutting edge at true centre of tap .
th-cam.com/video/Ev0zllycnHQ/w-d-xo.html for more info.
Hi John,
very good video. I am just learning to do three point starts and incrementing the cross slide by one third of the pitch is a great way of getting the job done. thank you.
I note that you stated that the half nuts should not be disengaged because it is a metric thread. I presume you have an imperial lead screw?? if the lathe has a metric lead screw or you have a 100/123 gear train the half nuts can be released and still be able to use the thread indicator - it works on my lathe.
only with even numbers
I've thought about doing this myself, great to see a successful example of one! Are you going to make a die as well?
Yes! I did try that once already but I used the tap to cut the threads for the die. There are two problems with that. 1. it blunts the tap (drill rod doesn't really seem to cope with 4140 steel very well)
2. it produces a horrible looking thread with lots of lines through it.
What I have done is to single point turn a nice thread that works well with a nut that I have made using the tap.
I will then use that as a model to single point an internal thread in some 4140 that I can then harden.
I think that should produce a better result.
The external thread needs to look nice as it is an obvious part of the pen.
I'll try to make another video of making a die if it works out ok.
Turned the camera off quick, proceeded to tell the missus you'd spent five hours up a ladder cleaning gutters out.
I'm thinking the tap would be 3 times as hard to turn than normal since it's cutting 3 different starts right?
Do R/C! You might be right. It wasn't too bad in bronze.
I found this interesting. It probably works best when used in soft material. You are using what looks like an Erickson tool holder in a square 5 c collet block. Is that something that you made our did you purchase it. Thank you. Charles
the tap can handle stainless steel ok. The collet block came with my grinder.
thanks man
if your worried about the temper when grinding the tip why not do that before you temper it?
cooool! gentleman, you outfit look like you are just coming out from the original star trek uss enterprise
luderick wong Lol!
was that a standard burner you used for hardening?
YOUR FISHING CHANNEL it’s a map gas torch. Almost the same as propane. The bricks make a big difference. They are just kiln bricks from a pottery supply shop.
Would a mild steel tap be good enough for brass?
Yes in theory but it probably would not last very long. If you are going to go to all the trouble of making one you may as well start with good steel.
Very cool vid. Thanx. I suppose this could work in a jam. I've noticed the entire length of the thread profile should have radial clearance from the start of the cutting edge radially to the start of the following flute. In other words mic the cutting diameter of a bought tap and twist in the cutting direction and the thread diameter should decrease. Without radial clearance and the tap begins to dull the cutting edge and a lack of radial relief will sort of burnish and press its way through the material causing more and more friction (grab) than the web between the flutes can handle. snap. Not saying this to be a wise guy. I couldn't do that radial relief at home either ;- )
Hello Mr. John what kind of metal should i use fot the tap
Havalı Silahlar silver steel which is also called drill rod or water hardening steel
thank you
Hi John,I'm doing my best to learn everything I can about tool cuttters/grinders before I make my purchase. What type of grinder do you use and what can you say about grinders?Thanks,Gray Smith
Hi Gray,
Mine is a chinese clone of a deckel. It is really good and I use it all the time.
John, what was the gearing configuration on the ML7 to carry out the screw cutting?
The leadscrew gears were 45 25/21 idle 60 40. For 3mm pitch.
The "back gears" mentioned in the video just give the lathe an extra slow speed. It used to be a standard thing but I don't think modern chinese lathes have back gears anymore.
That was quite impressive John.
Now in wondering how a die is made.
I'm guessing it would be using the tap you just made.
Marcel Hebert actually I tried doing it that way and it did work, however I found that it was not good for the tap and the thread it made wasn't very pretty. I really need a nice looking male thread so I have just been single pointing them. I plan to try again to make a die but I will cut the thread on my lathe and use some of the thread I cut already as a gauge so I know it is the right size.
John Creasey: What you could do is screwcut the initial thread, then just clean it up with your tap, that way you would put a lot less stress on your gem of a tap, and still get a perfect match for your mating threads.
Great video John!! Maybe a Morgan Freeman narration will boost your likes!
Alvin Pillay thanks for watching!
Just a question John, did you not consider turning the taper end in the lathe, then cleaning up in the finishing stage? I have never made a tap , but that is the style I like, a two or three flute with a slight taper on the flute for chip breaking. Cheers, enjoyed the vid.
howder1951 hi, the end taper is ground so that it can stop behind the cutting face instead if tangent to it. This gives it a relief clearance angle and helps it cut better.
I thought it was just part of your accent. Hope you didn't get a cold in that fine British summer. OOPs is see you are from Australia, you were in the middle of winter. A couple of word pronunciations made me question the whole British location, so I looked at your profile. It was how you pronounce beautifully and perfect. I guess you were getting a cold to sound British. LOL A drop or two of cutting oil would have helped that squeak. Great job on making the tap, especially a 3 start tap. You, sir, are a machinist.
Thanks for watching. My parents are both British so I probably have a bit of a mix of accents.
I have tried the tap a few times with a bit of cutting oil and not squeezed in a chuck and it cuts very well.
Glad to meet you, albeit from a distance. Keep machining, my new friend.
Is the lathe a South Bend? I think I have the exact same machine
Rafael Monteiro Rodrigues It's a Myford ML7
John help, Im needing a special tap made but cant find a tap maker in Alabama. Only tapping 2" pvc 3/4" depth. Special project.
Good luck!
John , I suspect you are from Australia, what part?
What is the name of your grinder? Are they available in the US?
They are usually called a D-Bit grinder. They were originally made by Deckel but imported copies are everywhere. Handy tool for sharpening drills, lathe tools, slitting saws, end mills and D-bits! You could probably do the same job with a bench grinder but that would take a bit more skill.
"Why not make one" I dont have a lathe mate, but still a good video to watch
Just make a lathe from two old engine blocks!
@@mikescudder4621 yeah, but I dont have a place that would give a good still working engine
@@hazimesahe Well, not that i actually explained anything but you can actually build a multi use machine using two old blocks. Why use old engine blocks? Easy to get hold of, heavy = sturdy, and with the cylinders you have a perfect straight 90 deg in relation to the deck. So you use this and put in bearings, matched to a shaft (like the rod out of a shock absorber) and you have the beginnings of a lathe. This is based on some project i saw years ago, i forget the name but google it and you'll find it. Obviously not like the one being used in the above video but hey. When we dont money, we get creative!!
@@mikescudder4621 or we can use the paddled powered lather that Grandpa Amu made, I might actually use that and probably find an unused engine to power the thing
@@hazimesahe Ah thats sounds like a great idea.
Did you use regular water or salt water when you quenched it? And did you put it in the oven afterwards or just run with it?
Regular water. I probably tempered it with the blowtorch.