Testo 557S vacuum decay test using the Bluetooth Testo 552i. Why U don’t use refrigerant hoses
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- 1: You do not use rubber refrigerant hoses to perform a vacuum decay test.
The results shown is the reason why.
2: You do not use a refrigerant manifold because they were actually not designed to perform deep vacuum decay test.
2. Unless under special controlled certain circumstances and you were using all metal lines in replace of hoses with no rubber gaskets.
Only then would you have a chance at performing a decent vacuum decay test for a short duration of time.
I have 2 of the Testo 552i's. Both devices drift up to over 2000. No hoses and many different isolation device. I believe it is the testo. Thank you for the video.
Try this test. If you have a clean new recovery tank. Or a 50 foot or 100 foot line set
Hook your 552i to one port on the recovery tank can you vacuum hose to the other part of the recovery tank.
Leave the vacuum pump running overnight because that is actually probably how long it will take to dry the recovery tank out of moisture embedded into the pores of the metal.
Use some NYLOG or silicone grease on the valve stem of the valves of the tank because they often leak a little bit under a deep vacuum when they are open.
The other method is to use your 50 foot or 100 foot copper line set three-quarter inch or larger. Braise in a quarter inch port at one end and a quarter inch port at the other end.
Hook up your micron gauge to one end your vacuum gauge with a isolation valve to the other and use NYLOG even on the twisting valve stem where it enters the valve that is a source of a leak.
Again leave your vacuum pump running overnight.
Usually if you have what appears to be a vacuum leak drifting up to around 2000 or 3000 µm and then stopping it’s usually moisture.
Give that test to try before condemning.
I remember about 20 years ago one of my senior texts at the time had a completely separate set of hoses that were metal braided with I believe rubber on the inside or maybe they were all just metal braided with copper but it was flexible and I remember in school they never explained that once you pull into a vacuum a deep vacuum especially on commercial units that it pulls moisture through the rubber they're great for holding pressure but when it comes to vacuum then not
The good ones with the stainless steel braid had a Teflon coating on the inside if they were the good ones
I have those stainless hoses and they are still great even though I've had them for 10 years or so.
Some people overtighten when they connect. Very bad if you have rubber seals in the endo of the hoses. If you have teflon, it can withstand more. But overtighten with rubber seal can make it leak....
I've seen ends of hoses, where the rubber seal is inserted, going like a Y-shape because of overtightening.
Also vakuum sensors should not stay upside down.....
If you got dirt, excess oil etc. it can fall down into the vakuum sensor and make fake readings, or destroy it. Sometimes electrical cleaner can fix it, sometimes not.
Some vakuum sensors got 2 plates inside them. This is where they sense/read the "humidity" in the air (some ion thing) and if these are exposed it can permanently damage them.
Make your vakuum sensor preferable high point, so nothing can fall down in it. Connect with a hose or something :)
interesting clip. just got mine too. NICE!. real world we all use hoses no copper lines. no leaks at 500 all set.,
Good video 👍👍
So you're loving your new toy ;)
Still like to wireless Bluetooth probe from fieldpiece in the field piece 480V
It’s just new and different then the old TESTO
It’s always good to see your company improve and modify their tools
It’ll be a long time before automotive mechanics learn that in the future they will no longer be using refrigerant gauge manifolds.
It all be scanner-based software.
so on automotive applications what kind of numbers do you typically want to see or where do you want them to level out at? What was the sleeve you used over your rubber hoses on your automotive manifold...I think in one video you said it was that sleeve and vaseline to seal up rubber hoses a bit more.
Vaseline was what we use back in the 1960s and the 1970s with R12 and CFC mineral oil refrigerant
Nowadays you use NYLOG. Or silicone grease.
That is shrink hose for electrical like the 3M shrink wrap
As for numbers for cars they’re all over the place there is no common number for pressures
You can have five different cars with five different sets of numbers and they’re all correct for that style of air conditioning system
One car could have 10 psi on the low side and that’s considered normal another car could have 19 to 21 psi on the low side and that’s considered normal for that car another car could have 27 to 30 psi and that is considered normal for that car then another car could have 30 to almost 40 psi and that can be considered normal for that car on the low side any changes with ambient conditions
Then on the high side pressure is as low as 67 psi to 97 psi on some they could be 120 to 180 PSI another cars it could be 200 PSI two 300 PSI depending on the ambient conditions it all depends on the year make and model vehicle and the style of air conditioning system in metering devices
There is no normal there is no average there is no rule of thumb you read the manual from the manufacture for that specific system
@@coldfinger459sub0 on the numbers I was referring to microns...is there an area you typically want to stay under? Also I thought I saw the video where you mentioned the hoses that you put something under the shrink tubing and I thought that was vaseline...I might be completely off tho.
@@MrSuperchargedv8 microns . The secret is you just don’t wanna get to a number that is much different than being able to shut off the vacuum and hold a number.
If we’re talking about commercial or residential HVAC you should be able to turn off the vacuum pump and the micron gauge should stay below 500 µm for 10 or 15 minutes.
If we’re talking about commercial refrigeration we should be able to get below 100 µm or 240 µm turn off the vacuum and stay holding under that number,
Automotive is much more difficult you’re very lucky if you can hold and stay under 700 µm.
By in automotive you might be able to get your vacuum down below 300 or 200 µm and then only be lucky to have the vacuum hauled below 700 µm.
So in automotive if you could hold below 700 µm you’re excellent 500 would be preferred but you’d be leaving the vacuum pump on overnight to achieve that not using your refrigerant hoses otherwise you will fail the test.
And the grease that I used was called silicone grease. Not Vaseline or anything else
I was thinking of making another set of hoses using real silicone the type that dries flexible
That will be a leader video
@@coldfinger459sub0 ok yes that makes sense. I only do automotive and sometimes I do get the ones that are hard to pull down because they have been open for long periods or several ppl have messed with the system for whatever reason. Right now im trying to insulate my new set of yellow jacket hoses so just trying to get ideas on how to approach it.
O how i love my testos 557s they are the shhhh 😂 soni uave a problem with the app it says configuration needed for i think ambient pressure and inHg section on the app it always says that when i use the app i just hit do not save
So, is there a rubber hose manufacturer you’d recommend for use? I know you said copper, but that isn’t going to work for me. Thanks
Yep you’re right I was gonna say copper it’s so cheap and easy when you get good at it it moves like a wet noodle very flexible and easy to turn into any shape you need.
If you need the hoses just for vacuum then the Accu tools trublu hoses air for vacuum only.
Then yellow jacket and other manufacturers make those stainless steel braided lines that have the hard Teflon plastic type material on the inside you can look them up on the yellow jacket website. They’re relatively expensive.
And I never even mention stainless steel lines but if copper is out of the question then stainless steel is definitely out of the ballpark.
When it comes to drawing a vacuum you just don’t use refrigerant manifold at all that is the best method to leave them out of the equation too many possibilities for leaks.
But as a rubber hose manufacture when it comes to vacuum no rubber should never be used. It’s one of the worst materials on earth to use for trying to pull a deep vacuum.
Silicone yes Teflon yes stainless steel yes copper yes.
With any kind of rubber refrigerant hose the first time you use it on a system and the Esther oil POE or PAG oil Gets in your rubber hoses and coach them it becomes this super powerful neodymium magnet to attract all moisture to adhere to the coating of oil that has absorbed deep into the surface of the inner lining of the rubber.
Then every time you’re performing a new vacuum you are literally fighting your hoses at removing the moisture as your vacuum gets deeper it’s your hoses that are lengthening your time of pulling a vacuum and it’s your hoses that will be outgassing giving you false readings on your micron gauge vacuum decay test.
Let’s say the difference in performance between rubber refrigerant hoses using your refrigerant manifold gauges and a single dedicated silicone vacuum hose.
A good analogy
A quarter-mile drag race between a tesla with ludicrous speed with all the performance options on the Tesla Plaid
And a 1973 Ford Pinto with all the smog and emission control devices EGR and retarded timing competing against each other.
Which one would you choose. It’s a choice 🤔
Hey man I just got my 550s and I cannot figure out how to change the digital read out on the top of the 550s to display a different pressure gauge. I’m stuck with a negative 10 - 24 psi on both digital analog read outs. If you could help me out that would be great
When I get home tonight I’ll see if I could make a short video on the pressures gauge settings.
Since I just recently got these gauges they’re new to me too
I hope this next video I made answered your question.
There’s a calibration function that needs to be pressed and held to zero to atmosphere
I got same problem
i just open box never used i found the issue about the pressure .not reading zero at low side when pressure is vented to atmosphere . low side always around 3 psi to 4 psi pressure and high side is normal zero psi . i tried to restart and restore the factory . still same issue . there is something wrong with the pressure sensor . i have youtube video th-cam.com/video/OC8D56bY6gM/w-d-xo.html
Those testo 552i vacuum sensors leak terribly in my experience. I tried 2 different units and then gave up and purchased a CPS deep vacuum gauge
@@Prosecute-fauci yes I have the Accu-U-tools BluVac Pro
thanks for posting this. I convinced my boss to get a 557s kit and he is sending it back because it was too unintuitive for him. (I'm still trying to get him to get used to it.) he was really confused about the display tell him the no display till the 1500 micron bit. He is a pull a vacuum for an hour guy... And question for you, shouldn't you connect the micron probe close to the source with a valve core tool and hook your pump there as well with short large diameter hoses, mitigating the hose problem? I'm a noob at this point trying to figure this out and convince my boss to measure instead of guess
Basically you should not use refrigerant hoses and gauge sets to pull a vacuum to perform a vacuum decay test there’s just too many possible leaks at all the connections and seals not to mention the hoses themselves were never rated or meant to pull or hold a deep vacuum.
And if you were going to use a one hose vacuum method. You would use a hose straight off your vacuum pump for example connected to the section line just for example.
And you would hook your micron gauge to the furthest point away from your vacuuming source and we would say that would be the high side liquid line.
At this point you would be getting your true reading of what your actual vacuum is in the system
I personally like the Fieldpiece SM480V refrigerant manifold.
For a micron gauge I like the AccuTools BluVac pro+ Micron meter.
Since making this video I have already returned the Testo kit they actually sent me back another kit to replace this defective kit that kept having many problems and issues.
The second one came it was better but still had a few glitches and issues could not hold Bluetooth connection for long could not catalog my vacuum decay or vacuum pulldown rate for long durations without it dropping out and losing all my information.
Yes and it really sucks when you’re pulling a vacuum using a set of gauges once you hit -15 vacuum the gauge just goes blank on the face plate that’s a game killer right there.
Lol sounds like your boss is like me old school after 23 years I'm now thinking about getting these Testo 550S or the 557S never used digital manifolds I just thought people would get lazy over time and inexperienced technicians that don't know how to do superheat sub cool and and all those other things that now gauges do or a smartphone app will do I guess it does make it faster and easier but it also accommodates people that don't truly understand what they're doing like everyone that keeps going and pumping for 10 inch or leaky system not knowing that it's a blended refrigerant that leaks at different rates and once you've passed 40% of its loss could be twice then you've lost majority of everything you need to pull the whole thing out
Actually the digital can be used as a training in teaching tool because as fast as the student or the apprentice is making adjustments he can actually see his reactions immediately and it’s all calculated.
Good for showing the customer a print out or email what it was like when you get there and what it is like after you finish doing your repairs or adjustments.
So, I'm trying to become a better technician/installer and I'd like to know where you purchase copper hose an or silicone? I've mentioned the silicone hoses to my boss and our controll specialists/heavy tech. They both never heard of anyone using them and my boss made fun of it. I think that's the wrong mindset to go about a innovative products that works.
You are correct they have a very simple mindset minimum amount of money minimum amount of effort whatever works good enough . If it breaks later just means more work for them they don’t care they fall in that category.
They either truly don’t have enough knowledge that they’re the ones who caused things to wear out prematurely. Or they intentionally don’t care and set things up not to have a long life to rip off the customer and how things break early.
One way is ignorance the other way is a thief.
Everybody has soft copper left over from their lines that installations you just make up your own copper lines. When you tear out an old system that has ball valves you take the ball valves out of the old system and braze them onto your lines as shut off valve.
Then the silicone hoses are from True Tech Tools
www.trutechtools.com/Vacuum-Hoses-and-Manifolds_c_1425.html
Here’s their website link right to the hoses.
If you’re watching Brian orb from HVAC School For Techs by Techs they also have a podcast you can listen to while you’re driving
When HVAC School LLC by Craig on TH-cam
And Ty Branaman HVAC School classes
Not to mention I forget Chris from HVAC videos
And many others. Chris is also on HVAC overtime that will introduce you to many big names for procedures and equipment and training for other podcast and videos and webinars.
I’m a heavy equipment/ heavy truck mechanic, work as an independent/self employed now. After 20 years I just learned of a vacuum micron gauge. I purchased one to add to my 134 analog gauge set. I had no idea how much my hoses leaked on it. I picked up a new mobile recovery setup and have found how much of a vacuum I don’t loose hooked to it. Twenty years I’ve tried doing quality AC work, but am humble enough to know i dont know it all and always more to learn. I say all of this to add that many of my peers in my trade just say why do you need a digital vacuum micron gauge, haven’t needed one in the last twenty years. Your reply is it’s either ignorance or theft, is so very true.
Это реально крутое видео! Спасибо автору!
🙏
@@coldfinger459sub0 🤝👨🔧
Will it measure wet and dry bulb?
When you hook up your external Testo sensors for wet and dry bulb and humidity readings to the refrigerant manifold Testo smart app on your iPad or iPhone
How do you do decay test without hoses?
Attach correctly to a service access fitting at the farthest point on your system.
You use ball valves to isolate the hoses so they are not attached to the system? .
Jim Bergman, one of the cool inventors of measureQuick, and does a lot of training videos for True Tech Tools has a good videos about this .
True Tech Tools has a book about vacuum and all the latest tools and methods. It’s about $19 available at True Tech Tools. . It’s a book about performing vacuuming procedures..
Hoses should not be left in the system in the circuit when performing your test measurements . The hoses are often many times the cause of failure of not passing the test..
Sometimes, even your isolation valves the gaskets in the seals in the ball valves can cause leaks. You always have to have back up knowing good tools. . Never rely just on one tool..
@@coldfinger459sub0 that is the thing. I have two manifolds one analog and another testo 557. I was never able to evacuate to 500 microns with these gauges, although other techs say they use manifolds to evacuate and then add a charge. I just tried to do a decay test just on my hoses, all of them failed. So I am wondering how others evacuate using their manifold gauges 🤔
@@thecurious6721 you should be able to get to 500 microns and even below. With gauges and hoses. But your hoses may make you fail the hold test after you shut off your vacuum pump and isolate.
Or your seals? Or ball valve seals. Something is making you fail. Or cheap hoses?
Can just you pump alone directly connected to a micron meter should be able to get below 20 to 50 microns.
This is why the one hose method is used.
One 3/4” vacuum rated silicone vacuum hose. Only one connection at the pump & One connection ate a service port wit one valve core removal tool. That’s all.
And a micron gauge connected at the farthest other service port.
Just watch Jim Burgman vacuum videos it’s all explained.
And this is why it’s important to have one NEW recovery tank as a known hood test setup. Because you need a volume of mass space to prefer test . On a new tank you should be able to get down to below 50 to 100 microns.
If not you’re doing something wrong in your setup. Or a piece of equipment is defective.. that’s all.
Can you use 552i only with app? With 557s off
Yes, you could use it on your phone or your tablet with the software all by itself.
Thank you for your comments about the vacuum decay test. That’s right, the rubber seals of hoses, the hoses themselves used for evacuation are the main sources of leaks. I recorded a video of my test:
th-cam.com/video/7P69Q358jkg/w-d-xo.html
That’s why we should only be using single vacuum or dibble double vacuum rated hoses like the tru blu silicone hoses they work so much better and with isolated ball valves.
With dedicated micron gauges attached to the system.
For automotive is ok that’s all most Machanics are only going to use gauges. But residential or commercial we should not be pulling vacuum through gauges
Okay so the 557S does not have a built-in vacuum measurement because that would be a step up over the 550 s so that you don't need the Bluetooth micron gauge they should sell a vacuum gauge set or I mean who's it so therefore you can switch out just those two gauges for vacuum while leaving the other side connected to your tank therefore when you were done with your vacuum and your DK test you could simply just open the one line and go directly from the fresh new Freon into the system never having to open anything to air
Yes they sell separate vacuum gauge that connect to tablet or iPhone or to the refrigerant gauge
show me the compressor test please
What kind of compressor test do you mean ?
Hi,
I got a second hand Testo 552i today so could finally test out the pump and other stuff.
They say you need Bluetooth v4.2, thankfully that’s not right, my phone has 4.0 and it works. So no need to buy a phone lol. And the pump goes down to 200 microns, so no need to ask for a replacement. The cheap manifold gauges I got, and the replacement gauge (coz they sent the wrong one), BOTH said it was pulling about 28 inHg(V) - utterly useless. It’s actually pulling 28.9 inHg(V) - if the Testo is accurate.
First I tried using the cheap ball valve I got.
Pump → Ball Valve → Testo = not very low Microns
Pump → Testo = 180 Microns
Stuck some Teflon tape on the connections and now:
Pump → Ball Valve → Testo = 200 Microns ish
But when I turn the valve, and turn off the pump, the microns go up pretty fast.
Is that because it’s such a small space, like you were saying?.. That’s the reason people think their micron gauge leaks, because there is such a small amount of space, a microscopic leak will make the micron go up quickly?.. Or is it because the ball valve is too cheap and nasty?..
Here is the results.
Started off 163 microns
Then at 2 mins intervals:
0 - 163
2 - 1560 = +1397
4 - 1970 = +410
6 - 2130 = +160
8 - 2250 = +120
10 - 2300 = +50
12 - 2390 = +90
14 - 2450 = +60
16 - 2490 = +10
18 - 2530 = +40
20 - 2560 = +30
22 - 2580 = +20
24 - 2600 = +20
26 - 2640 = +40
28 - 2650 = +10
30 - 2670 = +20
32 - 2700 = +30
34 - 2710 = +10
36 - 2730 = +20
38 - 2740 = +10
40 - 2770 = +30
42 - 2780 = +10
44 - 2790 = +10
46 - 2810 = +20
48 - 2780 = -30
50 - 2840 = +60
52 - 2850 = +10
54 - 2870 = +20
56 - 2880 = +10
58 - 2890 = +10
60 - 2910 = +20
62 - 2900 = -10
64 - 2940 = +40
66 - 2930 = -10
68 - 2950 = +20
70 - 2940 = -10
72 - 2980 = +40
74 - 2980 = +0
76 - 2990 = +10
78 - 2990 = +0
80 - 3120 = +30
82 - 3140 = +20
84 - 3150 = +10
86 - 3160 = +10
88 - 3200 = +40
90 - 3230 = +30
92 - 3250 = +20
94 - 3260 = +10
96 - 3280 = +20
98 - 3300 = +20
100 - 3300 = +0
102 - 3310 = +10
104 - 3350 = +40
106 - 3350 = +0
108 - 3380 = +30
Deviation to lowest pressure [bar] started out at 0.000021 and ended up at 0.004303
Dunno why it won’t let me select Deviation in Microns?..
Seems to average about 20-30 microns lost per 2 minutes, after that initial shooting up…
What do you think, is that normal, or do you reckon the ball valve is leaking more than it should?..
Leave it on overnight see if it stops in plateau and levels out somewhere around 3400 µm plus or minus.
That will tell you it’s just a ton of outgassing a moisture from the hoses
If it continuously keeps rising overnight, going into -29 vacuum -28 vacuum by the next morning most likely you have a leak
That’s a leak vacuum not a leak under pressure
If it stops at somewhere around 3400 µm that’s usually just moisture
Later, you can experiment with dry nitrogen, high-pressure leaked deca test.
Sometimes you could have leaks under vacuum and no leaks under pressure. Sometimes it’s the other way around you could have no leaks under vacuum and have leaks under pressure at 200 psi or 400 psi.
You have a lot of experimenting to do the teacher yourself first
And this is a brand new clean, refrigerant recovery cylinder is needed to differentiate having that large volume attached to your hoses .
And you just leave the vacuum pump on for 24 hours .
Refrigerant, gauges and hoses were never designed to hold extremely low vacuum that is not their purpose
@@coldfinger459sub0
Thanks. There are no hoses. That was just the Testo attached to the pump with a ball-valve in between. Does that decay look normal for that?..
I can’t do a pressure test - it would cost too much to get the nitrogen.
@@Lloyd.B. yes extremely small internal volume like you’re trying to do inside the manifold gauge set will look like that
Try to repeat it again a second time after leaving it on the vacuum pump for 24 hours
Should notice that the final results number is lower than the first time
@@coldfinger459sub0
Thanks. There is no manifold set, just the Testo attached to a ball-valve which is attached direct to the pump. I’m trying to leave out as much as possible, to make sure it works, before adding extra parts.
I tried putting the copper line in-between the Testo (and ball valve) and the pump, and it wouldn't register at all (not going below 20,000 micron) - so seems to leak like a sift at the moment. Need more Teflon tape...
@@Lloyd.B. yes then that is normal because you’re trying to read sets a small volume just a couple molecules of moisture bursting out like steam would make a great change in the numbers.
Especially with normal vacuum pumps .
And Teflon tape doesn’t always work .
That’s why Teflon tape is usually not normally used in refrigerant systems .
You will see all the manufactures when they are assembling, pressure, transducers, or any plugs, where they have to use mechanical threaded fittings .
They often use a ceiling bonding adhesive that uses the base metal as a catalyst to kick off the curing process
Or they might results to a specially made type Loctite, that was specifically manufactured for refrigerants .
In 98 it was 250 micron max lol
Around 240 µm depending on the manufacture of refrigeration equipment has always been a requirement for decades.
It all depends on the manufacture and in what year they have written instructions and for what type of equipment ultra low temperature low temperature or medium temperature all have different requirements.