Just discovered your Channel. Totally hooked. As a long term Attia, Huberman & Rhonda Patrick listener, your interviews are exceptional Simon. Your interviews are captivating. Keep it up !!!
As an 80 year old vegan I found this interview invaluable and essential in assisting me in determining my protein consumption. I especially enjoyed the level of detail. Thank you very much!
Wow!!! This is so excellent and timely for me. I'm a very fit and active 65 year old woman. I've been a whole food vegan for about 15 years. I've been very careful to monitor my protein intake to ensure that I stay at least at 70g daily (mainly from legumes, soy and higher protein grains). In the past 4 or 5 years, I've noticed my once very muscular quads, glutes and hamstrings have started shrinking dramatically. My blood glucose has started creeping up as well. My weight training has been consistent during this time. My arms and shoulders were starting to shrink as well. I was terrified that I would start looking like Chef AF, Pam Popper, Dr. Mcdougal or many of the other proponents of strict vegan diets. I didn't want to start supplementing with highly processed plant protein powders. I made the decision to switch to a whole food, low sugar, plant-strong omnivore pattern with a slightly higher amount of total protein and the results have been astounding! I'm actually gaining muscle again! Thank you so much for this very helpful and non-biased deep dive into protein and the importance of leucine for seniors to prevent age related sarcopenia and osteopenia!!! Once again...the Mediterranean Diet comes out on top. Bonus....my blood sugar has dropped and stabilized as well.
I admit to being very curious about your approach, as I’m in a similar position (59 yr old very active female, WFPB for 13 years, lots of resistance training since my early 20s, but noticing the same muscle loss and glucose rise that you mentioned). T Colin Campbell’s book “Whole” made a big impression on me so although I do use vegan protein powder to reach my meal targets of 30-40g protein, along with a BCAA powder, I’m conflicted about using isolates to optimize my health. I would love to see Simon address this topic! Thank you for sharing your experience.
One more thought on your observations, Sharon P; my husband (74, very active, lots of resistance training, WFPB for 13 years after receiving diagnosis of heart disease, which totally reversed after a couple of years plant-based) and I have talked a lot lately about how several of the “older” WFPB doctors and personalities are not looking good. No muscle tone, frail, etc. This is the antithesis of what we’re working for. So again, thanks for sharing your story, and I’d love to hear more about how and what you added “omnivore-wise”that’s made a positive difference for you, as well as how that’s impacted your TC, LDL, etc. Simon, I’m guessing many of your viewers are in our age category and would love a deeper dive on this topic. Your discussion with Don Layman was excellent; I’ve come to regard you as my #1 source for unbiased, deeply thoughtful discourse with the experts. Thank you very much!
And…one more thought…in distilling the message of Sharon’s story, I think it comes down to whether as a WFPB eater, you feel that animal protein is less dangerous/more advantageous than isolated plant-based protein powders and BCAAs in helping a plant-based, older person obtain the required amount of protein and leucine to achieve MPS. Simon, as a thankfully non-dogmatic interviewer in this space, this issue is one I’d love to learn more about, if there even is any research or theory about this trade off. Many thanks again🙏🏻!!
@@heidizee5144 May I ask what vegan protein powder you use? I saw a yoga session Chef AJ did when I was a paid member of her group and while she looked quite thin (not meant in a derogatory way at all) she was incredibly flexible and seemed quite strong.
@@narelled159 I learned a lot from Chef AJ; she’s done hero’s work for women looking to lose weight while gaining the health they deserve. She’s admitted to not liking to lift weights, but she does love her spin bike and yoga! I really like LoveComplement protein powders, and will occasionally use Garden of Life SPORT organic WFPB protein powder (it has stevia, so I don’t use it often). Hope that helps!
You have hit the nail on the head. As a 81 yr old woman I think how lovely to be plant based but if I see some chicken I go crazy for it and when I eat it I feel satisfied and good. I just cant survive without some animal protein like eggs, pouktry or fish. I am not overwieght.
1st time I listened to the interviewer never heard of him but was impressed. 2nd time I listened, I subscribed. 3rd time listening to this podcast I became a fan and made note of his name. Great preparation & interviewing skill Simon!
Thank you so much. . I'm a whole food plant based vegan and you're helping me to get a better grip on meeting protein needs and how to go about satisfying that need in a way without my having to resort to eating meat. .
Fascinating conversation. 81 year old athlete here. The questions and the answers are perfect IMO. A huge amount of information for this old man to assimilate. I accept the challenge and appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much.
This presentation get listed in my category "Best"!! This information is crucial for those of us who are entering into seniority life within a deminishing body that is losing height and muscle from an already minimized structure.
Wow!! I'm simply blown away by this interview. Amazing! So much useful evidence-based information. The quality of the questioning and the depth of the responses are a real treasure. Before this interview, I didn't know what to do: Should I limit my protein intake (especially from animal sources) to increase my longevity or do I eat more protein to increase my muscle mass? Now I know the answer: To have both good muscle mass and a long healthspan, I should eat unprocessed, natural foods, do resistance and aerobic exercise and eat a higher protein diet around 1.5 grams per kg lean body mass. I'll also do 16:8 time restricted eating. Thanks Don!!
I have been doing Keto for 2 years and started carnivore on March 17th 2023. I am feeling absolutely amazing. Joint pains are gone, and I no longer need to go to the chiropractor. Indigestion is gone as well. I started doing press-ups, and in the first week, I did 35 per day, which was 5 more than I usually do. I have steadily increased the number every day and did 70 a few days ago! I can't believe it! What I added was boron, which was suggested by one of the many doctors I follow on TH-cam. That took it to another level. I am 67 years young and will never eat vegetables again. No carbs, absolutely no carbs. I have not put sugar in my coffee or tea for at least 40 years. Another effect of this diet is that the plaque on my teeth has completely gone. After about a week, I could feel it coming off, a very strange sensation. Additionally, I no longer have bleeding gums. I only take thyroxine for my underactive thyroid. I hope to get off of it over the next year on this diet
I’m a whole-foods-plant-based eater with questions about how much protein we should ingest at what stage in our lives and whether timing and protein source matter. This was super-interesting information. Thank you!
Well done, like the way you keep the questions rolling and you also speak up when you have a point to make or clarify.....can hardly wait for more. Cheers 👍
@@TheProofWithSimonHill you did very well....I could tell you were holding back....can't push back to hard....you kept it on the rails....great composer 👌
58 year old woman who has always wanted to become plant based permanently. My issues arise when I hear many protein experts speaking of the importance of a high animal based diet to avoid Sarcopenia. I am very active and have always trained with weights however I do not want to jeopardize my strength as I continue to age. I came away from this just as confused! Who do you believe? Looking forward to your insight Simon.
Love Layman's no bs approach to an healthy diet versus the trash that yanks/aussies eat. He does not dwell on saturated fat, in fact he dismisses this as being an issue/negative part of a healthy diet. And heads back to the calorie deficit issue/burning the calories that come in. I couldn't agree with him more . . . he won't let Simon push him around on this, which I also appreciate. Look at the guy, he's the perfect age to be 100 percent concerned as to protein intake - and he's got decades of research behind him. Don't blame him for what people on this channel are deciding is a lambasting of a younger researcher, again I appreciate his straight up responses and descriptions. Especially of the hierarchy of funding/publishing/science/bias. This relieves my mind, as a 64 yr old underweight type, who truly needs to eat dense calories in order to get what I need. (I try to limit carbs, and do keep higher protein and moderate fats, 'healthy' fats for me are grassfed meat renderings, olive oil, mct oil, egg yolks etc) Thanks very much, Simon, for this lengthy and important interview, reminding me AGAIN of the importance of protein meals in the AM's, especially as I go further over the hill. Need to get on it!
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I look forward to moving on to the issues of 'healthy fats', which will likely tread on the sacred cow of LDL's, no? : ). We need to get to the bottom of decades of 'associations' - with most science based on male dieting-eating-visceral fat distribution and /or cardio vascular responses (most interested in the endothelium health). I know it's hard for you to put yourself in the seat of females/eldsters/lean/frail - but it would be SO helpful to me/us if you could take five minutes in each interview to inquire after tips on our behalf. MUCH appreciated!
longevity runs in my family. but they all thrived on veggies and potatoes, yogurt, some eggs and small amounts of cheese. meat fish and poultry were rare. if i tell my grandmother which is 85 now to chug some protein powder every day, she would beat the hell out of me. by the way, she lives alone in very good health for a 85 old woman. another thing to mention is she goes to restaurant maybe 3 times a year. 99% of what she eats is made by her, including baked goods and sweets.
@@wocket42 i live in romania. the main seed oil used here is sunflower oil. and it's refined. my parents use around 2 litres a month for 2 persons, my grandma uses 1 litre in about 2 months. me plus wife and kid, we use 2 litres in 3 months, of which one litre sunflower and 1 litre extra virgin olive oil. i strongly believe oil should be used in moderation, no matter what kind. and i have no problem with seed oils, since polyunsaturated fats lower ldl. and i believe there's no strong study about oil and inflammation or other problems. and i repeat, used in moderation. every doctor here says you have to be parsimonious in this regard
@@Kitiwake funny indeed. well, turns out she has almost all of her teeth in good shape. i'm 43 and i already have parodontitis, but that's because of 23 years of smoking
Excellent interview with one of the highest minds of this important and demonized topic . Dr. Layman is a gem in this industry. I thank Layne Norton and Dr. Gabriel Lion for name dropping him years ago in past interviews. Well done. Always can learn more from him .
I’m 63 and a body builder I’m a small woman 5’5” 115lbs I also run. I eat 120-150 gr animal protein a day. I end up about 1800-2200 cals a day. I do eat veggies fats and carbs (cereal, bread sweet potatoes fruit)too. I’m about 15-16% bf off season I think without the protien I couldn’t lift my weight and build muscle at this age. My vegan friends have way less strength and carry a lot more body fat. Similar age.
You have to ask if those friends are also bodybuilders, though. If you weren't interested in lifting and dedicated to bodybuilding, you wouldn't have the muscle you have or be as lean as you are, right? Diet isn't the only difference between you and your friends. Plus, there are vegan bodybuilders. If anything goes wrong with a vegan or they are not perfect, their diet is blamed, which is comical when you consider all the other factors. 80% of the American population is overweight, and heart disease and diabetes are very common. Yet only 3-5% of the population is vegan. So clearly, these aren't issues caused by a vegan diet.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I am impressed with many vegans who maintain a muscular physique. I do wonder about supplentation, though, too. And since most are young, I will see in 20 or 30 years (if I'm still around) if it holds the same.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I'm curious, Simon, have you lost blood every month for decades or conceived, carried, birthed and nursed one or more other humans? Also, do your meat eating friends consume ultra-processed crap full of plant-based seed oils and sugar? Finally, speaking of "supported by the literature", please direct me to the long term studies looking at the outcome of raising a human from in utero on a diet devoid of animal sourced foods. Thank you in advance.
argh...I do find this all frustrating....I very much want to be 100%plant based, I eat a super healthy diet of whole foods, mostly plants. I eat some yogurt and occasional fish but feel not so good ethically about even that small amount. But I am 61 and he is correct that its hard to get the amount of protein I am aiming for (about 1.5 to 1.8 per kg) without a lot of calories when Im eating totally plant based. I do lift weights, 4x per week, and I walk and hike and do some rowing. But as a 61 year old woman it just gets harder to keep myself at the healthy weight I want to maintain...the frustrating part is ALL the different opinions/views....I listen to one person and Im convinced Im fine to eat a bit lower protein, then I listen to someone else and it all shifts. BUT, thank you anyway...I love your podcasts, listen to all of them. Your work and ethics are top notch.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I enjoy watching your videos and different points of view, but I’ve known several people from different families that lived well into their 90’s. Not a single one of them did resistance training, although they did stay active doing normal everyday things like housework, etc and they didn’t sit a lot. They also ate 3 Small but balanced meals a day including meat, veggies, and carbs. They were all healthy, not overweight and active until a few weeks before they passed at ages near 100. Most did Not take supplements
Look nobody can be 100% plant based. Lots of little critters get killed for your precious plant based diet so probably best not eat anything so you don’t feel “guilty” problem solved 🤦♀️
WOW. I am still catching up on your podcasts. 67 year old woman. Really trying to do what I can to maintain increase muscle mass because of bone density issues and with husband who has had too much time in bed due to several surgeries, cardiovascular disease, and his muscle loss. I want to scream "damage control on aisle 3". I am so grateful for your podcasts bringing this kind of information. I am now shopping the the best protein powders. Most "shakes" have too much sugar or other garbage added..I don't have room for those extra calories and certainly not the other junk. I can slug it down without the sweet-just mix it in with my non fat kefir! I do have some already but trying to optimize additional protein. It is absolutely TRUE. The calories I need to maintain weight are so so so much lower than when I was younger no matter how much I move (and I get that now as well).
Hi, My Story far less same with same age & My life style is far less smiler. Will you pls tell me which brand is safe. On this protein powder's. I know Dr Sinclair told us to check on GMP & 3rd party tested products💊.. Since Then I follow that rule. Looking forward to hear from you. God Bless🙏 Love from London🌹🌺
Simon I’m 41 f, I’ve eating a WFPB for 7 years, I do resistance training, and all I’m interested in is in quality of life for as long as possible, but all the information from different sources is SO confusing, please, where can I find what’s the right thing to do for my health when it comes to protein intake?
Very interesting interview - you did a great job Simon. The whole protein series is excellent. But Layman's comments about Longo's research undermine his (Layman's) credibility. His suggestion that Longo's theories about longevity and diet are just based on a few fat mouse studies is wide of the mark, as presumably your interviews with Longo will show. Also, Layman's suggestion that Longo's NHanes epidemiology paper did not control for basic things like total calories and BMI is just silly - it was published in Cell Metabolism! Of course he controlled for those things and many other things besides, and he did not "manipulate" the data to find an effect, he found an interaction with age - perfectly reasonable to look for this, and plausible to find it. But again, I think it is fantastic that you are doing these interviews with scientists on both sides of the protein debate, and your even-handed interviewing style and good questions make these very useful and interesting. Keep up the good work!
1h7m low vs high protein in longevity. Thanks for trying to unravel this issue. I also found the CR vs Fasting study and protein in aging studies out of the Lamming lab compelling. Both recent studies. There is also work from Jay Mitchell's lab on protein restriction compelling (he has since passed). I think there has been some effort to unravel the CR vs fasting and the protein issue. The Lamming lab seemed to identify isoleucine, but not leucine or methionine, as a possible culprit in aging. Dr. Layman is right, context matters. BTW, Longo eats primarily a plant based diet, with some fish. Seems to me that we should track lean body mass as we age and bump up exercise, if we are able, and protein and try to keep insulin very low (something that is not normally tracked).
Dr Laymans recommendations don't seem to pass Dr Longo's 5 pillar common sense approach overall that I ascribe to, but in context actually do somewhat fit the healthy pescatarian diet Dr Longo recommends until older age. Looking forward to your discussion with Dr Longo, thanks Simon!
Thank you so much Simon for having Dr. Layman on and giving us such great health information. I know that this video was done 9 months ago, but the information is timeless! For many years, I’ve stayed pretty healthy by eating a well-balanced diet. I didn’t regularly work out per se, but my Massage business for almost 30 years kept me in relatively good shape Then Covid happened and my work was shut down. At that point, I decided that being 66 years old, I would retire. As much as I am loving retirement, it seems that my muscles decided to retire as well😄. My body composition really changed and not for the better! I started listening to podcasts where different health experts shared their knowledge and it has helped immensely! It has been a whole retraining of my brain. I changed my diet where protein is the star of the show and I am now exercising 5 to 6 days a week with resistance training, and some cardio. I also take, amino acids and creatine. I have learned so much through podcasts like yours and I really feel better now at 68 almost 69 then I have for years. By eating a good amount of protein daily, I have managed to rebuild my muscles, I believe, even stronger than before! I had been diagnosed with osteoporosis about 6 years ago and I just had a dexa scan done and the specialist told me to continue doing what I am doing! Such great news especially since they say that after 65 we are targeted to lose 1% bone mass per year. I say, not on my watch🙂 Not only have I noticed a change in my body, but I also have noticed that I have far more mental clarity as well. Simon, thank you for the amazing work that you do and together we can make this world a better home for everyone Theresa🙏❤️
Being a 77 year old female ,,5’ 1” who exercises daily, I’d love to know how much protein I should eat a day? Also, my 73 year old husband who is 6’3”. How much protein should each of us eat per day? Can someone translate this talk for us?
I would love to know the answer to that question too! I’m also 77 about 5’4” now and 112 lbs. I shrunk a couple of inches because of osteoporosis. I’m a little underweight according to my doctor.
First class! World class! Amazing quality & eye opening, knowledgeable and free flowing discussion. Thank you both! 👍👍 P.S. Can’t wait for your Valter Longo interviews & then *your all important summary Simon of all the experts you’ve interviewed as *you’ll put it expertly in the context of all the variables I care about - amazing work Simon & multiple guests.
KST. Good luck with Longo. I quit listening to Longo Long-ago. He has too much bias & ego or money in the race. He seems to preach low protein cuz of cancer & whatever other vegan science they misrepresent. Personally I don't hate the guy just find him unconvincing & untrustworthy when comparing him to high protein advocats like Dr. Ted Naiman, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon & others who show real results & not longevity voo-doo. Blessing & peace be with you.
@@terrytannatt2656 Free thought, varied ideas and open discussion are what I treasure and not closing down of views. Real progress is made when ideas are raised and argued in a professional way - Simon is a master and able to link in all the variety out there and curate in a way that matches what I’m looking for. Can’t wait to hear Dr. Longo and all of Simon’s guests and I have my own views of the all the experts and they all raise important points which I’m able put into context. This expert series format on a key topic is outstanding and all of the guests and Simon’s intelligent probing should be applauded. 👏👍
I was hoping that you’d present the different protein schools of thought, and this is an excellent episode. Looking forward to hearing your convo with Dr Longo. I really appreciate the fact that you continue to bring different perspectives to your podcast.
I loved this ep! The importance of Meal Timing & Muscle Protein Synthesis (24:40)- especially for seniors & ppl on Vegan diets. I wish Drs. Chris Gardner & Stuart Phillips ( Ep 228) would have specifically addressed the need to have ALL proper ratios of the limiting amino acid present in feeding window to spur MPS. It was never directly addressed there. Great Stuff, Simon. TY! 🙌
Thank you Mr. Hill thank you Doctor! I'll be feeding on this meal for years. I think y'all uncovered more EAA's in the form of getting to the meat of human nutrition.😊 God bless you.
Hi Simon, fascinating comments: 1. Only 25% of protein used by muscles. 2. Muscle preservation is 80% resistant and only 20% protein intake. 3. 6 out of 7 amino acids get reincorporated. The cumulative effect of the above is significant. It would be appreciated if you and/or your guests could cover off in greater detail the fact that the body produces the majority of the protein required all by its self. I wonder if the amino acids that we self produce are the most critical, hence evolution has led to them to being the only ones we self produce. From an observational point of view the following seem apparent: The following cohorts don't normally achieve longevity or vitality 1. Body builders that pump a lot of iron (the ones that don't do steroids) 2. High end edurance athletes and they also wear out their bodies and hearts 3. Sedentary and/or overweight people 4. Taller humans have a shorter life span, which probably helps partially explain why females live longer even when accounting for lifestyle choices. The people that live beyond 85 and still live in their own home and remain active, healthy and independent are generally lean. Personally I believe that the current protein obsession is partly food company marketing and partly individuals seeking an easy option I.e. glug down protein rather than make lifestyle changes.
@@markgarcia5845 Hi Mark, interesting comments. Thanks for sharing. Everyone's on the road to death, but there's no need to get in the fast lane. I agree with your philosophy and lifestyle. A WFPB diet and vegan lifestyle is also kinder on the individual, planet, and animals.
@@GlennMarshallnz good comment. Personally I battle with this concept of doing so much protein each and every day. 60g a day or so is fair enough (RDA), but going to say 150g a day, (I'm 150 pounds as an example) just instinctively feels wrong to me. Yes it's just my opinion, off course. But think about it, if I had, as an example, 3 eggs at 8am and say 3 more at 2pm, it sounds like not a bad protein effort for the day. Yet, that takes me to say 40g for the day which is not even a third of what some of these experts are advocating. Just does not make sense to me.
@@GlennMarshallnz another point, I eat tons of fats (egg, avocado, and especially macadamia). Yet I'm getting skinnier, not fatter. I'm too skinny actually. Makes me wonder about the same principle regarding protein...
To ensure you're getting all the essential amino acids your body needs, you should consume a variety of protein-rich foods. While individual foods may not contain all essential amino acids in optimal quantities, combining different protein sources can help you obtain a complete range of amino acids. Here are some top foods that, when combined, can provide you with all essential amino acids: Quinoa: A pseudo-grain that contains all essential amino acids. It's a complete protein source and can be used as a base for various dishes. Buckwheat: Another pseudo-grain, similar to quinoa, that provides all essential amino acids. It's gluten-free and can be used in porridges, salads, or as a flour substitute. Eggs: A complete protein source, with all essential amino acids present in the egg white. They are versatile and can be prepared in numerous ways. Fish: Seafood, such as salmon, tuna, and trout, are excellent sources of high-quality protein. They provide all essential amino acids and are rich in omega-3 fatty acids. Chicken breast: A lean meat that offers a complete range of essential amino acids. It's low in fat and can be prepared in various healthy ways. Greek yogurt: A dairy product that contains all essential amino acids. It's also a good source of calcium and probiotics. Tofu and tempeh: Plant-based sources of protein that provide all essential amino acids. They are popular options for vegetarians and vegans. Lentils: Legumes like lentils are rich in protein and contain a good balance of essential amino acids. They are versatile and can be used in soups, stews, or salads. Chia seeds: Although small in size, chia seeds are a good source of protein and contain all essential amino acids. They can be added to smoothies, oatmeal, or used as an egg substitute in baking. Quorn: A meat substitute made from mycoprotein, which contains all essential amino acids. It's a suitable option for vegetarians and vegans.
I am 66, so I do try for a little more protein. I find the higher end of the recommendations a bit hard to reach without a supplement. I am aiming for 1.2, probably hit 1.0 or so. If I use fat free mass, those numbers become 1.4 and 1.2. I am not big, those numbers work out to about 70 to 85 grams. And I resistance train regularly.
This protein thing is literally driving me crazy. I have clinical protein FOMO. At 66 I run 10k/day and CrossFit 5/week, plant based and never gave a thought about protein … in retrospect I was consuming about 40g/day [.6g/kg]… felt great … didn’t appear to lose muscle mass (DEXA). NOW … I do my first 6k run then load up on 40g plant protein + 2 cups soy milk (52g total) .. I’ve added fish back in to add another 40g and then the remaining 20g from berries / veg etc. [1.6g/kg]. Dr Layman et al have me freaked out about age related sarcopenia. So, I’m no longer 100% plant based … but I’m a certified protein mega god.
Hi Simon- great interview. Questions on MPS, protein timing and mTor- 1. Does MPS take a 2.5 gm leucine trigger in anyone regardless of weight? 2. Regarding protein "pulsing" and mTor activation- it was stated that mTor is activated with a minimum 2.5 gram leucine trigger (which leads to the 30 gram protein recommendation per meal minimum) but the argument made in this interview against small protein meals throughout the day is that this might constitutively keep mTor elevated, increasing cancer risk. Those two statements are at odds. Are you able to clarify? Thank you!
Thanks Simon. I just discovered your channel and this was a fantastic interview with a great guest and topic. One question about grams (protein) per kg. Are you referring to kg weight, kg ideal body weight, kg lean weight or kg target weight? If it's any of the last 3, then would it not be easier to estimate protein goals based upon height? Also, I'd like to hear more about any differences between achieving optimal protein from 6 servings per day, versus 2or 3 servings per day. Does a bolus 30 g really make a difference. The reason for the question is that I work with 40+ females wanting to lose weight, and getting them to consume 30 g protein at least 3 times a day can be difficult in practice. I look forward to listening to your past interviews. Great work. PS Thanks for going to the effort to get your sound optimised, not just your mic but your room acoustics. Too many interviewers and guests ignore this and it makes it so difficult to hear and concentrate on their message.
But I've heard and read research indicating that high protein diets can contribute to bone loss. As a 60-year-old woman with osteopenia I'd like to know the truth
So refreshing having been completing the Cornell online introductory course on nutrition that steadfastly maintains the line that a very low (as in 5 to 10%) plant protein diet is optimum for health regardless of age. What I take away from this as a 77 year old vegan is that I had better be supplementing my protein intake which happens to support my actions. I will take my chances with IGF-1 and m-Tor. Fortunately for vegans, there is a new vegan whey protein with a better amino acid profile than animal whey marketed as V-Whey under the California Performance Company label.
Very low (5-10%) plant protein is regarded as a safe level to protect us even from cancer. T. Colin Campbell mentioned about getting cancer turned on(above 10%) then turned off(
How to get 300g/day protein intake? Even based on shakes It's difficult beside unhealthy. Very good. Thanks for your work. But extensive and would be an upgrade if you could post a resume
Great podcast. I hope you will summarize all these protein podcast Simon 😀. Im surprised about his opinion about Dr longo. But I rather live healthy than just a long life. Plz at some stage do discuss how much protein is recycled. Those trying to loose weight keep total calories low, but high protein need to know how to. I do IF as well but try to fit protein in two meals. Thanks again, Kirti Seth 🙏☺️
I'm 62 and I focus on trying to live more than 100 being perfectly healthy till then. So I focus my attention on publications and consequent guidelines towards that direction. E.g. Luigi Fontana work, or 2021 AHA Dietary Guidelines. There are today some serious randomized double deaf studies on the matter on humans, and it is simple to distinguish them from tales like ketogenic and other unuseful or even dangerous lifestyles.
Some fun highlights in this interview, massive props to the moderator. Guy aggressively promotes breakfast, reveals he worked for the egg industry. Attacks Longo but admits he doesn't even know the actual details of the research he's criticizing. Promotes high protein consumption by citing a study he ran that found greater igf1 activation in a high carb diet vs high protein then admits the carbs tested were literally the worst possible. Obviously he is knowledgeable, but seems conflicted in various ways.
This is such a powerful and informative episode. Many thanks to you and Dr. Layman. This was a great episode that was very easy to follow thanks to your great interview style. Thanks again Simon. 🙏🏻🌱
Believe Mr Laymen was rather clear … it takes more calories of plant based proteins to equal that which is found in animal sources. And, too many calories is a leading contributor to metabolic dysfunction. So why would anyone prefer to tinker with consuming too many calories?
Balance is the key, I believe. Have your blood levels of protein checked. Aim for the middle of normal. Eat a Mediterranean diet, which includes some animal protein but mostly plants.
I can’t believe people still try to affect science with climate nonsense. This was excellent conversation and knowledge based on facts. I guess if major scientist want some money they need to promote climate change as it happened in previous episode. This one was absolutely awesome
You should look at Dave Feldman's research on hyperresponders. They are currently being conducted at I believe Haward (Don't quote on the college). They have some preliminary data out that's interesting.
Great Interview ! Some Key Pieces of Information: - Minimum of 2,500 mg Leucine required Per Meal to trigger mTOR and Muscle Protein Synthesis (MPS): - 30 grams of WPI equals 2,500 mg to 3,000 mg of Leucine - This is where the myth of no more than 30 grams of protein Per Meal comes from ... - 40 grams of WPI (4,000 mg Leucine) Per Meal is highly Recommended - More Leucine is required as we age in order to trigger mTOR and MPS - If you are eating less than 2,500 mg of Leucine per meal: - You get none of the mTOR or MPS benefits and are only getting the appetite satiety effect of Protein - Your are feeding your liver - Which is great, but you are not feeding your muscles - Once your have triggered mTOR: - It remains triggered 5 to 6 hours later - However, MPS shuts down after 2 to 3 hours (possibly due to depletion of ATP) - Potentially FAR MORE beneficial to have your Next Meal (Final Meal) 5 to 6 hours after your First Meal - we want mTOR and MPS to fully switch off after First Meal, then kickstart it again with our Final Meal - Protein Distribution: - Donald Layman recommends 1.5g protein per KG of Bodyweight, with split distribution throughout the day - First meal - Barely needs to activate mTOR - So, 40 grams WPI (4,000 mg Leucine) ... - Final meal - (Ideally 5 or more hours later) More Protein (Leucine) than the First Meal - So, 55+ grams WPI (5,500+ mg Leucine) - Don't snack on carbs or refined carbs - neither of these contribute positively to mTOR or MPS - Don't have a Protein meal prior to exercise - Do have a post workout Protein meal Up for Debate: - Having less than 2,500 mg Leucine for First Meal (20 grams or less of WPI) is actually a good idea in order to feed your Liver ... - Technically less than 2,500 mg Leucine for First Meal (20 grams or less of WPI) shouldn't activate mTOR or MPS, but it will stop your Liver from engaging in muscle catabolism in order to feed itself a steady source of amino acids. You're Welcome 🙂, Andrew
I live here for almost 27 years thanks God never call in sick at work I eat healthy reading always the ingredients before I buy knowing what is good or bad no bread soda or processed meat or any stuffs buy always grass fed meat organic chicken fruits and veggies no fast foods always cook at home eat only when hungry not smoking it is the choice of a person what to buy to be healthy be active no worry and praying God bless all 🇸🇽🇺🇸
Thanks for this episode Simon, lots to think about for those of us following WFPB diets. On question - are the guidelines for protein based on kg of bodyweight or kg of lean body/muscle mass? Assuming you know your body fat %, the two lead to quite different ranges....I thought I heard Dr Layman say its the latter but people don't necessarily know their lean body mass?
It's lean mass. You can estimate, it's not all that important. If you're worried you can just go slightly high on protein intake which is unlikely to have negative effects.
@@TheBswan So if adults in the US is getting 1.1g protein per kg bodyweight, how did they figure that with so many obese people? What weight do they consider lean, I wonder?
Dr Layman advises people to estimate protein based on ideal body weight for height. And to beware highly processed foods like American cheese I suppose.
This is excellent information. Thank you. However, at 71, I find I need more calories to hang onto my weight. I am 5’ 8” and 128 pounds. Also, I started lifting weights again after three decades. In my 30s and early 40s, I was a gym rat. After a couple of months, I was lifting heavier weights, and seeing better results than in my youth. Is there any explanation for this?
Take an amount of steak (slow digestion) and an amount of whey (fast digestion) each representing 3g leucine but consider the fact that muscle protein synthesis lasts only 2-3h after a meal. Now the steak will only be half digested during this period whereas the whey protein will be almost completely digested. The leucine from the steak will at best have only half the effective value relative to this MPS window. Similiar to an amount of Casein representing 3g leucine, the steak may not trigger the leucine threshold. A larger dose of steak would be necessary.
Respectfully regarding Dr. Longo's work...The podcast mentions 2 studies. One of them is not by Valter Longo. The main one discussed, on calorie restriction, does not have his name on it. Regarding Longo's study on high protein vs. low protein, the first "reason" given by Layman for Longo's experiments not being up to snuff is that the mice are not exposed to a natural environment, it's sterile. This is how every mouse model experiment is done. It's on purpose so scientists can isolate what they are trying to look at, and know there is not another factor responsible. This is a feature, not a bug. Should we toss out every mouse model experiment done in a sterile lab environment? The second "reason" Layman gives for this being a bad experiment is that there were fewer calories in the lower protein mice diet, but this is not true. This becomes Laman's main point of contention that is discussed for several minutes, but the paper clearly states that the mice were fed an isocaloric diet. Meaning both diets have the same amount of calories. No scientist would ever do an experiment the way Layman describes where 2 factors are changed. You would have no idea which of the two factors was responsible for the outcome. It wouldn't have been funded in the first place. There is a graph in the paper showing that the caloric intake was the same.
I was surprised to hear him say that the average protein intake in the US is about 0,9-1,0 g/kg. If I remember correctly Dr Christopher Gardner said, in your episode with him and Dr Stuart Philips, that it was about 1,3-1,4 g/kg, or somewhere in that ballpark
Although, it may not be a huge difference, I think his pro animal foods bias is kinda evident throughout the podcast. That’s not surprising since he even mentioned that he was on the egg board…
I guess you would need to eat 25% more protein from soy (compared to eggs/meat). So you might be eating soy all day, which may not be healthy either, at least if unfermented.
After listening I started searching the Internet of what protein heavy sources he favors , and/or outright says is not good . I can’t find anything on that. Does anyone know?
Just discovered your Channel. Totally hooked. As a long term Attia, Huberman & Rhonda Patrick listener, your interviews are exceptional Simon. Your interviews are captivating. Keep it up !!!
Totally agree, relaxed format that lets the guests speak is brilliant. Also neutral stance
Agreed! Very refreshing approach.
As an 80 year old vegan I found this interview invaluable and essential in assisting me in determining my protein consumption. I especially enjoyed the level of detail. Thank you very much!
Wow!!! This is so excellent and timely for me. I'm a very fit and active 65 year old woman. I've been a whole food vegan for about 15 years. I've been very careful to monitor my protein intake to ensure that I stay at least at 70g daily (mainly from legumes, soy and higher protein grains). In the past 4 or 5 years, I've noticed my once very muscular quads, glutes and hamstrings have started shrinking dramatically. My blood glucose has started creeping up as well. My weight training has been consistent during this time. My arms and shoulders were starting to shrink as well. I was terrified that I would start looking like Chef AF, Pam Popper, Dr. Mcdougal or many of the other proponents of strict vegan diets. I didn't want to start supplementing with highly processed plant protein powders. I made the decision to switch to a whole food, low sugar, plant-strong omnivore pattern with a slightly higher amount of total protein and the results have been astounding! I'm actually gaining muscle again! Thank you so much for this very helpful and non-biased deep dive into protein and the importance of leucine for seniors to prevent age related sarcopenia and osteopenia!!! Once again...the Mediterranean Diet comes out on top. Bonus....my blood sugar has dropped and stabilized as well.
I admit to being very curious about your approach, as I’m in a similar position (59 yr old very active female, WFPB for 13 years, lots of resistance training since my early 20s, but noticing the same muscle loss and glucose rise that you mentioned). T Colin Campbell’s book “Whole” made a big impression on me so although I do use vegan protein powder to reach my meal targets of 30-40g protein, along with a BCAA powder, I’m conflicted about using isolates to optimize my health. I would love to see Simon address this topic! Thank you for sharing your experience.
One more thought on your observations, Sharon P; my husband (74, very active, lots of resistance training, WFPB for 13 years after receiving diagnosis of heart disease, which totally reversed after a couple of years plant-based) and I have talked a lot lately about how several of the “older” WFPB doctors and personalities are not looking good. No muscle tone, frail, etc. This is the antithesis of what we’re working for. So again, thanks for sharing your story, and I’d love to hear more about how and what you added “omnivore-wise”that’s made a positive difference for you, as well as how that’s impacted your TC, LDL, etc. Simon, I’m guessing many of your viewers are in our age category and would love a deeper dive on this topic. Your discussion with Don Layman was excellent; I’ve come to regard you as my #1 source for unbiased, deeply thoughtful discourse with the experts. Thank you very much!
And…one more thought…in distilling the message of Sharon’s story, I think it comes down to whether as a WFPB eater, you feel that animal protein is less dangerous/more advantageous than isolated plant-based protein
powders and BCAAs in helping a plant-based, older person obtain the required amount of protein and leucine to achieve MPS. Simon, as a thankfully non-dogmatic interviewer in this space, this issue is one I’d love to learn more about, if there even is any research or theory about this trade off. Many thanks again🙏🏻!!
@@heidizee5144 May I ask what vegan protein powder you use? I saw a yoga session Chef AJ did when I was a paid member of her group and while she looked quite thin (not meant in a derogatory way at all) she was incredibly flexible and seemed quite strong.
@@narelled159 I learned a lot from Chef AJ; she’s done hero’s work for women looking to lose weight while gaining the health they deserve. She’s admitted to not liking to lift weights, but she does love her spin bike and yoga! I really like LoveComplement protein powders, and will occasionally use Garden of Life SPORT organic WFPB protein powder (it has stevia, so I don’t use it often). Hope that helps!
You have hit the nail on the head. As a 81 yr old woman I think how lovely to be plant based but if I see some chicken I go crazy for it and when I eat it I feel satisfied and good. I just cant survive without some animal protein like eggs, pouktry or fish. I am not overwieght.
1st time I listened to the interviewer never heard of him but was impressed.
2nd time I listened, I subscribed.
3rd time listening to this podcast I became a fan and made note of his name.
Great preparation & interviewing skill Simon!
Thank you so much. . I'm a whole food plant based vegan and you're helping me to get a better grip on meeting protein needs and how to go about satisfying that need in a way without my having to resort to eating meat. .
Don Layman is a breath of fresh air. He really knows the details of the science. I am learning so much. Thanks for having him on your show.
Same here🙏💊
He has no book to sell?
Fascinating conversation. 81 year old athlete here. The questions and the answers are perfect IMO. A huge amount of information for this old man to assimilate. I accept the challenge and appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much.
This presentation get listed in my category "Best"!! This information is crucial for those of us who are entering into seniority life within a deminishing body that is losing height and muscle from an already minimized structure.
Simon, for our benefit you dug deeply into it with Dr. Layman, and kept it all very respectful - thank you.
I'm learning so much about protein intake.. Thank you so much for the information, Dr. Layman.
Wow!! I'm simply blown away by this interview. Amazing! So much useful evidence-based information. The quality of the questioning and the depth of the responses are a real treasure. Before this interview, I didn't know what to do: Should I limit my protein intake (especially from animal sources) to increase my longevity or do I eat more protein to increase my muscle mass? Now I know the answer: To have both good muscle mass and a long healthspan, I should eat unprocessed, natural foods, do resistance and aerobic exercise and eat a higher protein diet around 1.5 grams per kg lean body mass. I'll also do 16:8 time restricted eating. Thanks Don!!
40:34
I don't know how my grandma got to 98 without all this wonderful knowledge. Well, actually I do.
I have been doing Keto for 2 years and started carnivore on March 17th 2023. I am feeling absolutely amazing. Joint pains are gone, and I no longer need to go to the chiropractor. Indigestion is gone as well. I started doing press-ups, and in the first week, I did 35 per day, which was 5 more than I usually do. I have steadily increased the number every day and did 70 a few days ago! I can't believe it!
What I added was boron, which was suggested by one of the many doctors I follow on TH-cam. That took it to another level. I am 67 years young and will never eat vegetables again. No carbs, absolutely no carbs. I have not put sugar in my coffee or tea for at least 40 years.
Another effect of this diet is that the plaque on my teeth has completely gone. After about a week, I could feel it coming off, a very strange sensation. Additionally, I no longer have bleeding gums. I only take thyroxine for my underactive thyroid. I hope to get off of it over the next year on this diet
First time here. You ask amazing questions, will be back for more!!! Subscribed.
Fantastic talk Simon you interviewed Dr Layman very well with well thought out questions
I’m a whole-foods-plant-based eater with questions about how much protein we should ingest at what stage in our lives and whether timing and protein source matter. This was super-interesting information. Thank you!
Just get 100g/day and don't worry
A bit of an issue with the FDA is the cycle of CEO's, etc from meat, dairy industries on the FDA Board. There is plenty of opportunity for problems.
Well done, like the way you keep the questions rolling and you also speak up when you have a point to make or clarify.....can hardly wait for more.
Cheers 👍
@@TheProofWithSimonHill you did very well....I could tell you were holding back....can't push back to hard....you kept it on the rails....great composer 👌
wooooooo pleaseeee bring on the next 2 episodes, I can't wait for Dr Valter Longo he is the best!
58 year old woman who has always wanted to become plant based permanently. My issues arise when I hear many protein experts speaking of the importance of a high animal based diet to avoid Sarcopenia. I am very active and have always trained with weights however I do not want to jeopardize my strength as I continue to age. I came away from this just as confused! Who do you believe? Looking forward to your insight Simon.
Love Layman's no bs approach to an healthy diet versus the trash that yanks/aussies eat. He does not dwell on saturated fat, in fact he dismisses this as being an issue/negative part of a healthy diet. And heads back to the calorie deficit issue/burning the calories that come in. I couldn't agree with him more . . . he won't let Simon push him around on this, which I also appreciate.
Look at the guy, he's the perfect age to be 100 percent concerned as to protein intake - and he's got decades of research behind him. Don't blame him for what people on this channel are deciding is a lambasting of a younger researcher, again I appreciate his straight up responses and descriptions. Especially of the hierarchy of funding/publishing/science/bias.
This relieves my mind, as a 64 yr old underweight type, who truly needs to eat dense calories in order to get what I need. (I try to limit carbs, and do keep higher protein and moderate fats, 'healthy' fats for me are grassfed meat renderings, olive oil, mct oil, egg yolks etc)
Thanks very much, Simon, for this lengthy and important interview, reminding me AGAIN of the importance of protein meals in the AM's, especially as I go further over the hill. Need to get on it!
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I look forward to moving on to the issues of 'healthy fats', which will likely tread on the sacred cow of LDL's, no? : ). We need to get to the bottom of decades of 'associations' - with most science based on male dieting-eating-visceral fat distribution and /or cardio vascular responses (most interested in the endothelium health).
I know it's hard for you to put yourself in the seat of females/eldsters/lean/frail - but it would be SO helpful to me/us if you could take five minutes in each interview to inquire after tips on our behalf. MUCH appreciated!
PS: NOT so very athletic/active anymore due to inflammatory arthritis. There are many of us, 2/3's are female . . . THANKS : )
@@eugeniebreida1583 Many carnivores see a massive reduction in arthritis. Please look up Dr Ken Berry and Dr Judy Cho.
longevity runs in my family. but they all thrived on veggies and potatoes, yogurt, some eggs and small amounts of cheese. meat fish and poultry were rare. if i tell my grandmother which is 85 now to chug some protein powder every day, she would beat the hell out of me. by the way, she lives alone in very good health for a 85 old woman.
another thing to mention is she goes to restaurant maybe 3 times a year. 99% of what she eats is made by her, including baked goods and sweets.
Interesting. What's her seed oil consumption over the last few decades?
@@wocket42 i live in romania. the main seed oil used here is sunflower oil. and it's refined. my parents use around 2 litres a month for 2 persons, my grandma uses 1 litre in about 2 months. me plus wife and kid, we use 2 litres in 3 months, of which one litre sunflower and 1 litre extra virgin olive oil.
i strongly believe oil should be used in moderation, no matter what kind. and i have no problem with seed oils, since polyunsaturated fats lower ldl. and i believe there's no strong study about oil and inflammation or other problems. and i repeat, used in moderation. every doctor here says you have to be parsimonious in this regard
How does she eat the sweets with no teeth?
@@theslackermoderation is meaningless, with respect.
Seed oil isn't it obvious?.. When did people use seed oil in human history?
@@Kitiwake funny indeed. well, turns out she has almost all of her teeth in good shape. i'm 43 and i already have parodontitis, but that's because of 23 years of smoking
Another Great podcast Simon! Well done !
Much appreciated!
I love listening to Dr. Layman talk, keep telling like it is.
Excellent interview with one of the highest minds of this important and demonized topic .
Dr. Layman is a gem in this industry. I thank Layne Norton and Dr. Gabriel Lion for name dropping him years ago in past interviews.
Well done.
Always can learn more from him .
You ask the best way compared to the last 2 interviews w Layman from others. Nice job!!!
Wonderful guest, I never saw this much quality information in a single video. Fantastic stuff.
I’m 63 and a body builder I’m a small woman 5’5” 115lbs I also run. I eat 120-150 gr animal protein a day. I end up about 1800-2200 cals a day. I do eat veggies fats and carbs (cereal, bread sweet potatoes fruit)too. I’m about 15-16% bf off season I think without the protien I couldn’t lift my weight and build muscle at this age. My vegan friends have way less strength and carry a lot more body fat. Similar age.
You have to ask if those friends are also bodybuilders, though. If you weren't interested in lifting and dedicated to bodybuilding, you wouldn't have the muscle you have or be as lean as you are, right? Diet isn't the only difference between you and your friends. Plus, there are vegan bodybuilders. If anything goes wrong with a vegan or they are not perfect, their diet is blamed, which is comical when you consider all the other factors. 80% of the American population is overweight, and heart disease and diabetes are very common. Yet only 3-5% of the population is vegan. So clearly, these aren't issues caused by a vegan diet.
Just out of curiosity, do you on the vegan diet need to take supplements??
@wendywitchner6790 You killed a lot more beings as a vegetarian eating commercial eggs than someone just eating cow meat.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I am impressed with many vegans who maintain a muscular physique. I do wonder about supplentation, though, too.
And since most are young, I will see in 20 or 30 years (if I'm still around) if it holds the same.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I'm curious, Simon, have you lost blood every month for decades or conceived, carried, birthed and nursed one or more other humans?
Also, do your meat eating friends consume ultra-processed crap full of plant-based seed oils and sugar?
Finally, speaking of "supported by the literature", please direct me to the long term studies looking at the outcome of raising a human from in utero on a diet devoid of animal sourced foods.
Thank you in advance.
argh...I do find this all frustrating....I very much want to be 100%plant based, I eat a super healthy diet of whole foods, mostly plants. I eat some yogurt and occasional fish but feel not so good ethically about even that small amount. But I am 61 and he is correct that its hard to get the amount of protein I am aiming for (about 1.5 to 1.8 per kg) without a lot of calories when Im eating totally plant based. I do lift weights, 4x per week, and I walk and hike and do some rowing. But as a 61 year old woman it just gets harder to keep myself at the healthy weight I want to maintain...the frustrating part is ALL the different opinions/views....I listen to one person and Im convinced Im fine to eat a bit lower protein, then I listen to someone else and it all shifts. BUT, thank you anyway...I love your podcasts, listen to all of them. Your work and ethics are top notch.
What's with all the Buts?!!
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I enjoy watching your videos and different points of view, but I’ve known several people from different families that lived well into their 90’s. Not a single one of them did resistance training, although they did stay active doing normal everyday things like housework, etc and they didn’t sit a lot. They also ate 3 Small but balanced meals a day including meat, veggies, and carbs. They were all healthy, not overweight and active until a few weeks before they passed at ages near 100. Most did Not take supplements
Look nobody can be 100% plant based. Lots of little critters get killed for your precious plant based diet so probably best not eat anything so you don’t feel “guilty” problem solved 🤦♀️
I would think that a decent portion of tofu daily would get you to your protein level quite easily.
WOW. I am still catching up on your podcasts. 67 year old woman. Really trying to do what I can to maintain increase muscle mass because of bone density issues and with husband who has had too much time in bed due to several surgeries, cardiovascular disease, and his muscle loss. I want to scream "damage control on aisle 3". I am so grateful for your podcasts bringing this kind of information. I am now shopping the the best protein powders. Most "shakes" have too much sugar or other garbage added..I don't have room for those extra calories and certainly not the other junk. I can slug it down without the sweet-just mix it in with my non fat kefir! I do have some already but trying to optimize additional protein. It is absolutely TRUE. The calories I need to maintain weight are so so so much lower than when I was younger no matter how much I move (and I get that now as well).
Hi just a suggestion I use a protein powder from Metagenics.. it has twice any of Leucine
Hi, My Story far less same with same age & My life style is far less smiler.
Will you pls tell me which brand is safe. On this protein powder's.
I know Dr Sinclair told us to check on GMP & 3rd party tested products💊..
Since Then I follow that rule.
Looking forward to hear from you.
God Bless🙏
Love from London🌹🌺
Simon I’m 41 f, I’ve eating a WFPB for 7 years, I do resistance training, and all I’m interested in is in quality of life for as long as possible, but all the information from different sources is SO confusing, please, where can I find what’s the right thing to do for my health when it comes to protein intake?
Very interesting interview - you did a great job Simon. The whole protein series is excellent. But Layman's comments about Longo's research undermine his (Layman's) credibility. His suggestion that Longo's theories about longevity and diet are just based on a few fat mouse studies is wide of the mark, as presumably your interviews with Longo will show. Also, Layman's suggestion that Longo's NHanes epidemiology paper did not control for basic things like total calories and BMI is just silly - it was published in Cell Metabolism! Of course he controlled for those things and many other things besides, and he did not "manipulate" the data to find an effect, he found an interaction with age - perfectly reasonable to look for this, and plausible to find it.
But again, I think it is fantastic that you are doing these interviews with scientists on both sides of the protein debate, and your even-handed interviewing style and good questions make these very useful and interesting. Keep up the good work!
I am fascinated with healthy protein provides proper repair and maintenance of healthy muscle and bone. Thank you both.
Its awesome you have the pop ups to show relevant studies during the discussion
@@TheProofWithSimonHill yea keep up the good work, I've been checking your stuff out ever since I saw you on Rich Roll's podcast👍
1h7m low vs high protein in longevity. Thanks for trying to unravel this issue. I also found the CR vs Fasting study and protein in aging studies out of the Lamming lab compelling. Both recent studies. There is also work from Jay Mitchell's lab on protein restriction compelling (he has since passed). I think there has been some effort to unravel the CR vs fasting and the protein issue. The Lamming lab seemed to identify isoleucine, but not leucine or methionine, as a possible culprit in aging. Dr. Layman is right, context matters. BTW, Longo eats primarily a plant based diet, with some fish. Seems to me that we should track lean body mass as we age and bump up exercise, if we are able, and protein and try to keep insulin very low (something that is not normally tracked).
I really appreciate your fact checks during the conversation. I look forward to your other broadcasts.
Dr Laymans recommendations don't seem to pass Dr Longo's 5 pillar common sense approach overall that I ascribe to, but in context actually do somewhat fit the healthy pescatarian diet Dr Longo recommends until older age. Looking forward to your discussion with Dr Longo, thanks Simon!
Very valuable content, great questions. Thank you for this amazing podcast!
Loved listening to conversation , Dr Don Layman was fabulous and very sincere
Thank you so much Simon for having Dr. Layman on and giving us such great health information. I know that this video was done 9 months ago, but the information is timeless!
For many years, I’ve stayed pretty healthy by eating a well-balanced diet. I didn’t regularly work out per se, but my Massage business for almost 30 years kept me in relatively good shape Then Covid happened and my work was shut down. At that point, I decided that being 66 years old, I would retire. As much as I am loving retirement, it seems that my muscles decided to retire as well😄. My body composition really changed and not for the better! I started listening to podcasts where different health experts shared their knowledge and it has helped immensely! It has been a whole retraining of my brain. I changed my diet where protein is the star of the show and I am now exercising 5 to 6 days a week with resistance training, and some cardio. I also take, amino acids and creatine. I have learned so much through podcasts like yours and I really feel better now at 68 almost 69 then I have for years. By eating a good amount of protein daily, I have managed to rebuild my muscles, I believe, even stronger than before! I had been diagnosed with osteoporosis about 6 years ago and I just had a dexa scan done and the specialist told me to continue doing what I am doing! Such great news especially since they say that after 65 we are targeted to lose 1% bone mass per year. I say, not on my watch🙂
Not only have I noticed a change in my body, but I also have noticed that I have far more mental clarity as well.
Simon, thank you for the amazing work that you do and together we can make this world a better home for everyone
Theresa🙏❤️
Being a 77 year old female ,,5’ 1” who exercises daily, I’d love to know how much protein I should eat a day? Also, my 73 year old husband who is 6’3”. How much protein should each of us eat per day? Can someone translate this talk for us?
I would love to know the answer to that question too! I’m also 77 about 5’4” now and 112 lbs. I shrunk a couple of inches because of osteoporosis. I’m a little underweight according to my doctor.
First class! World class! Amazing quality & eye opening, knowledgeable and free flowing discussion. Thank you both! 👍👍 P.S. Can’t wait for your Valter Longo interviews & then *your all important summary Simon of all the experts you’ve interviewed as *you’ll put it expertly in the context of all the variables I care about - amazing work Simon & multiple guests.
KST. Good luck with Longo. I quit listening to Longo Long-ago. He has too much bias & ego or money in the race. He seems to preach low protein cuz of cancer & whatever other vegan science they misrepresent. Personally I don't hate the guy just find him unconvincing & untrustworthy when comparing him to high protein advocats like Dr. Ted Naiman, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon & others who show real results & not longevity voo-doo. Blessing & peace be with you.
@@terrytannatt2656 Free thought, varied ideas and open discussion are what I treasure and not closing down of views. Real progress is made when ideas are raised and argued in a professional way - Simon is a master and able to link in all the variety out there and curate in a way that matches what I’m looking for. Can’t wait to hear Dr. Longo and all of Simon’s guests and I have my own views of the all the experts and they all raise important points which I’m able put into context. This expert series format on a key topic is outstanding and all of the guests and Simon’s intelligent probing should be applauded. 👏👍
New to your pod, appreciate you bringing real scientists in the field to our ears❤
Love your direct and to the point question approach.
Great convetsation. Simon, I appreciate the quality of your questions.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I'm a die-hard carnivore and I, too, love that you ask such good questions.
Thank you for the discussion on protein and the kidneys. It was very helpful.
I was hoping that you’d present the different protein schools of thought, and this is an excellent episode. Looking forward to hearing your convo with Dr Longo. I really appreciate the fact that you continue to bring different perspectives to your podcast.
I loved this ep! The importance of Meal Timing & Muscle Protein Synthesis (24:40)- especially for seniors & ppl on Vegan diets. I wish Drs. Chris Gardner & Stuart Phillips ( Ep 228) would have specifically addressed the need to have ALL proper ratios of the limiting amino acid present in feeding window to spur MPS. It was never directly addressed there. Great Stuff, Simon. TY! 🙌
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I'm T2D w sev chronic stuff too so been using CarbManager alot past few months. I will give Chrono a look. TY!
Thank you Mr. Hill thank you Doctor! I'll be feeding on this meal for years. I think y'all uncovered more EAA's in the form of getting to the meat of human nutrition.😊 God bless you.
What exactly you added? Thank you
What are the thoughts on essential amino acid supplements? Should we be taking those?
Hi Simon, fascinating comments:
1. Only 25% of protein used by muscles.
2. Muscle preservation is 80% resistant and only 20% protein intake.
3. 6 out of 7 amino acids get reincorporated.
The cumulative effect of the above is significant.
It would be appreciated if you and/or your guests could cover off in greater detail the fact that the body produces the majority of the protein required all by its self. I wonder if the amino acids that we self produce are the most critical, hence evolution has led to them to being the only ones we self produce.
From an observational point of view the following seem apparent:
The following cohorts don't normally achieve longevity or vitality
1. Body builders that pump a lot of iron (the ones that don't do steroids)
2. High end edurance athletes and they also wear out their bodies and hearts
3. Sedentary and/or overweight people
4. Taller humans have a shorter life span, which probably helps partially explain why females live longer even when accounting for lifestyle choices.
The people that live beyond 85 and still live in their own home and remain active, healthy and independent are generally lean. Personally I believe that the current protein obsession is partly food company marketing and partly individuals seeking an easy option I.e. glug down protein rather than make lifestyle changes.
@@markgarcia5845 Hi Mark, interesting comments. Thanks for sharing. Everyone's on the road to death, but there's no need to get in the fast lane. I agree with your philosophy and lifestyle. A WFPB diet and vegan lifestyle is also kinder on the individual, planet, and animals.
@@GlennMarshallnz good comment.
Personally I battle with this concept of doing so much protein each and every day.
60g a day or so is fair enough (RDA), but going to say 150g a day, (I'm 150 pounds as an example) just instinctively feels wrong to me. Yes it's just my opinion, off course.
But think about it, if I had, as an example, 3 eggs at 8am and say 3 more at 2pm, it sounds like not a bad protein effort for the day. Yet, that takes me to say 40g for the day which is not even a third of what some of these experts are advocating.
Just does not make sense to me.
@@GlennMarshallnz another point, I eat tons of fats (egg, avocado, and especially macadamia). Yet I'm getting skinnier, not fatter. I'm too skinny actually.
Makes me wonder about the same principle regarding protein...
To ensure you're getting all the essential amino acids your body needs, you should consume a variety of protein-rich foods. While individual foods may not contain all essential amino acids in optimal quantities, combining different protein sources can help you obtain a complete range of amino acids. Here are some top foods that, when combined, can provide you with all essential amino acids:
Quinoa: A pseudo-grain that contains all essential amino acids. It's a complete protein source and can be used as a base for various dishes.
Buckwheat: Another pseudo-grain, similar to quinoa, that provides all essential amino acids. It's gluten-free and can be used in porridges, salads, or as a flour substitute.
Eggs: A complete protein source, with all essential amino acids present in the egg white. They are versatile and can be prepared in numerous ways.
Fish: Seafood, such as salmon, tuna, and trout, are excellent sources of high-quality protein. They provide all essential amino acids and are rich in omega-3 fatty acids.
Chicken breast: A lean meat that offers a complete range of essential amino acids. It's low in fat and can be prepared in various healthy ways.
Greek yogurt: A dairy product that contains all essential amino acids. It's also a good source of calcium and probiotics.
Tofu and tempeh: Plant-based sources of protein that provide all essential amino acids. They are popular options for vegetarians and vegans.
Lentils: Legumes like lentils are rich in protein and contain a good balance of essential amino acids. They are versatile and can be used in soups, stews, or salads.
Chia seeds: Although small in size, chia seeds are a good source of protein and contain all essential amino acids. They can be added to smoothies, oatmeal, or used as an egg substitute in baking.
Quorn: A meat substitute made from mycoprotein, which contains all essential amino acids. It's a suitable option for vegetarians and vegans.
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Interviewer has a particularly pleasant tone and manner …very easy to listen to ….
Super glad you brought up the transportation, that comment never sat well with me from what we know.
I am 66, so I do try for a little more protein. I find the higher end of the recommendations a bit hard to reach without a supplement. I am aiming for 1.2, probably hit 1.0 or so. If I use fat free mass, those numbers become 1.4 and 1.2. I am not big, those numbers work out to about 70 to 85 grams. And I resistance train regularly.
I absolutely love this information. I am saving the video to listen again..! #LearninginNebraska
This protein thing is literally driving me crazy. I have clinical protein FOMO. At 66 I run 10k/day and CrossFit 5/week, plant based and never gave a thought about protein … in retrospect I was consuming about 40g/day [.6g/kg]… felt great … didn’t appear to lose muscle mass (DEXA). NOW … I do my first 6k run then load up on 40g plant protein + 2 cups soy milk (52g total) .. I’ve added fish back in to add another 40g and then the remaining 20g from berries / veg etc. [1.6g/kg]. Dr Layman et al have me freaked out about age related sarcopenia. So, I’m no longer 100% plant based … but I’m a certified protein mega god.
Hi Simon- great interview. Questions on MPS, protein timing and mTor-
1. Does MPS take a 2.5 gm leucine trigger in anyone regardless of weight?
2. Regarding protein "pulsing" and mTor activation- it was stated that mTor is activated with a minimum 2.5 gram leucine trigger (which leads to the 30 gram protein recommendation per meal minimum) but the argument made in this interview against small protein meals throughout the day is that this might constitutively keep mTor elevated, increasing cancer risk. Those two statements are at odds. Are you able to clarify?
Thank you!
Eating every 2-3 hours is not gonna help you build muscle better than someone eating ever 5-6 hours.
Thanks Simon. I just discovered your channel and this was a fantastic interview with a great guest and topic. One question about grams (protein) per kg. Are you referring to kg weight, kg ideal body weight, kg lean weight or kg target weight? If it's any of the last 3, then would it not be easier to estimate protein goals based upon height?
Also, I'd like to hear more about any differences between achieving optimal protein from 6 servings per day, versus 2or 3 servings per day. Does a bolus 30 g really make a difference. The reason for the question is that I work with 40+ females wanting to lose weight, and getting them to consume 30 g protein at least 3 times a day can be difficult in practice.
I look forward to listening to your past interviews. Great work.
PS Thanks for going to the effort to get your sound optimised, not just your mic but your room acoustics. Too many interviewers and guests ignore this and it makes it so difficult to hear and concentrate on their message.
But I've heard and read research indicating that high protein diets can contribute to bone loss. As a 60-year-old woman with osteopenia I'd like to know the truth
So refreshing having been completing the Cornell online introductory course on nutrition that steadfastly maintains the line that a very low (as in 5 to 10%) plant protein diet is optimum for health regardless of age. What I take away from this as a 77 year old vegan is that I had better be supplementing my protein intake which happens to support my actions. I will take my chances with IGF-1 and m-Tor. Fortunately for vegans, there is a new vegan whey protein with a better amino acid profile than animal whey marketed as V-Whey under the California Performance Company label.
Yes and no. The very low protein might be better for longevity. But not better for short term health and thriving.
Very low (5-10%) plant protein is regarded as a safe level to protect us even from cancer. T. Colin Campbell mentioned about getting cancer turned on(above 10%) then turned off(
Excellent interview.
How to get 300g/day protein intake? Even based on shakes It's difficult beside unhealthy. Very good. Thanks for your work. But extensive and would be an upgrade if you could post a resume
Simon, ask Professor William Happer from Princeton on your show to discuss global CO2 levels. I think you will find him fascinating.
Great podcast. I hope you will summarize all these protein podcast Simon 😀. Im surprised about his opinion about Dr longo. But I rather live healthy than just a long life. Plz at some stage do discuss how much protein is recycled. Those trying to loose weight keep total calories low, but high protein need to know how to. I do IF as well but try to fit protein in two meals. Thanks again, Kirti Seth 🙏☺️
Great podcast! Thank you.
Should an Advanced Cancer patient over 60 years eat mainly a plant based diet? And should protein be low as according to T. Collin Campbell research?
I'm 62 and I focus on trying to live more than 100 being perfectly healthy till then. So I focus my attention on publications and consequent guidelines towards that direction. E.g. Luigi Fontana work, or 2021 AHA Dietary Guidelines. There are today some serious randomized double deaf studies on the matter on humans, and it is simple to distinguish them from tales like ketogenic and other unuseful or even dangerous lifestyles.
Some fun highlights in this interview, massive props to the moderator. Guy aggressively promotes breakfast, reveals he worked for the egg industry. Attacks Longo but admits he doesn't even know the actual details of the research he's criticizing. Promotes high protein consumption by citing a study he ran that found greater igf1 activation in a high carb diet vs high protein then admits the carbs tested were literally the worst possible. Obviously he is knowledgeable, but seems conflicted in various ways.
Thanks! Worth a watch I'd say, but definitely get what you mean.
I am currently reading Dr. Garth Davis’s book - “Protein-Aholic”. Interesting contrast of “proofs” and thoughts!
Simon should protein per kg be based on body weight or ideal body weight?
Very informative. Excellent
This is such a powerful and informative episode. Many thanks to you and Dr. Layman. This was a great episode that was very easy to follow thanks to your great interview style. Thanks again Simon. 🙏🏻🌱
Thank you so much! Great info!
Glad it was helpful!
Believe Mr Laymen was rather clear … it takes more calories of plant based proteins to equal that which is found in animal sources. And, too many calories is a leading contributor to metabolic dysfunction. So why would anyone prefer to tinker with consuming too many calories?
Awesome interview.
Balance is the key, I believe. Have your blood levels of protein checked. Aim for the middle of normal. Eat a Mediterranean diet, which includes some animal protein but mostly plants.
can you review the study which you posted on the video at 1hr. and 9 minutes?
Excellent interview...............
I can’t believe people still try to affect science with climate nonsense.
This was excellent conversation and knowledge based on facts. I guess if major scientist want some money they need to promote climate change as it happened in previous episode. This one was absolutely awesome
First meal and last meal of the day are extremely important
This is such fascinating content. The steely science is there for us to learn! ✨🌟✨
You should look at Dave Feldman's research on hyperresponders. They are currently being conducted at I believe Haward (Don't quote on the college). They have some preliminary data out that's interesting.
Great Interview !
Some Key Pieces of Information:
- Minimum of 2,500 mg Leucine required Per Meal to trigger mTOR and Muscle Protein Synthesis (MPS):
- 30 grams of WPI equals 2,500 mg to 3,000 mg of Leucine
- This is where the myth of no more than 30 grams of protein Per Meal comes from ...
- 40 grams of WPI (4,000 mg Leucine) Per Meal is highly Recommended
- More Leucine is required as we age in order to trigger mTOR and MPS
- If you are eating less than 2,500 mg of Leucine per meal:
- You get none of the mTOR or MPS benefits and are only getting the appetite satiety effect of Protein
- Your are feeding your liver - Which is great, but you are not feeding your muscles
- Once your have triggered mTOR:
- It remains triggered 5 to 6 hours later
- However, MPS shuts down after 2 to 3 hours (possibly due to depletion of ATP)
- Potentially FAR MORE beneficial to have your Next Meal (Final Meal) 5 to 6 hours after your First Meal
- we want mTOR and MPS to fully switch off after First Meal, then kickstart it again with our Final Meal
- Protein Distribution:
- Donald Layman recommends 1.5g protein per KG of Bodyweight, with split distribution throughout the day
- First meal - Barely needs to activate mTOR - So, 40 grams WPI (4,000 mg Leucine) ...
- Final meal - (Ideally 5 or more hours later) More Protein (Leucine) than the First Meal - So, 55+ grams WPI (5,500+ mg Leucine)
- Don't snack on carbs or refined carbs - neither of these contribute positively to mTOR or MPS
- Don't have a Protein meal prior to exercise
- Do have a post workout Protein meal
Up for Debate:
- Having less than 2,500 mg Leucine for First Meal (20 grams or less of WPI) is actually a good idea in order to feed your Liver ...
- Technically less than 2,500 mg Leucine for First Meal (20 grams or less of WPI) shouldn't activate mTOR or MPS, but it will stop your Liver from engaging in muscle catabolism in order to feed itself a steady source of amino acids.
You're Welcome 🙂,
Andrew
I live here for almost 27 years thanks God never call in sick at work I eat healthy reading always the ingredients before I buy knowing what is good or bad no bread soda or processed meat or any stuffs buy always grass fed meat organic chicken fruits and veggies no fast foods always cook at home eat only when hungry not smoking it is the choice of a person what to buy to be healthy be active no worry and praying God bless all 🇸🇽🇺🇸
The last thin Dr Layman said was golden 🎉🎉🎉
A SUMMARY at the end would be excellent.
That’s the best Donald Layman interview I’ve seen. Well done on the variety, depth and significance of your questioning!
I always thought the calculation used lean bodymass x grams of protein? Is overall bodyweight the correct one to use, or is that just because of ease?
Thanks for this episode Simon, lots to think about for those of us following WFPB diets. On question - are the guidelines for protein based on kg of bodyweight or kg of lean body/muscle mass? Assuming you know your body fat %, the two lead to quite different ranges....I thought I heard Dr Layman say its the latter but people don't necessarily know their lean body mass?
It's lean mass. You can estimate, it's not all that important. If you're worried you can just go slightly high on protein intake which is unlikely to have negative effects.
@@TheBswan So if adults in the US is getting 1.1g protein per kg bodyweight, how did they figure that with so many obese people? What weight do they consider lean, I wonder?
Dr Layman advises people to estimate protein based on ideal body weight for height.
And to beware highly processed foods like American cheese I suppose.
Sorry scrap the cheese comment, I misread the latter part of your comment!
This is excellent information. Thank you. However, at 71, I find I need more calories to hang onto my weight. I am 5’ 8” and 128 pounds. Also, I started lifting weights again after three decades. In my 30s and early 40s, I was a gym rat. After a couple of months, I was lifting heavier weights, and seeing better results than in my youth. Is there any explanation for this?
Take an amount of steak (slow digestion) and an amount of whey (fast digestion) each representing 3g leucine but consider the fact that muscle protein synthesis lasts only 2-3h after a meal. Now the steak will only be half digested during this period whereas the whey protein will be almost completely digested. The leucine from the steak will at best have only half the effective value relative to this MPS window. Similiar to an amount of Casein representing 3g leucine, the steak may not trigger the leucine threshold. A larger dose of steak would be necessary.
Respectfully regarding Dr. Longo's work...The podcast mentions 2 studies. One of them is not by Valter Longo. The main one discussed, on calorie restriction, does not have his name on it. Regarding Longo's study on high protein vs. low protein, the first "reason" given by Layman for Longo's experiments not being up to snuff is that the mice are not exposed to a natural environment, it's sterile. This is how every mouse model experiment is done. It's on purpose so scientists can isolate what they are trying to look at, and know there is not another factor responsible. This is a feature, not a bug. Should we toss out every mouse model experiment done in a sterile lab environment? The second "reason" Layman gives for this being a bad experiment is that there were fewer calories in the lower protein mice diet, but this is not true. This becomes Laman's main point of contention that is discussed for several minutes, but the paper clearly states that the mice were fed an isocaloric diet. Meaning both diets have the same amount of calories. No scientist would ever do an experiment the way Layman describes where 2 factors are changed. You would have no idea which of the two factors was responsible for the outcome. It wouldn't have been funded in the first place. There is a graph in the paper showing that the caloric intake was the same.
Awesome 👏. Thanks for this valuable information!
I was surprised to hear him say that the average protein intake in the US is about 0,9-1,0 g/kg. If I remember correctly Dr Christopher Gardner said, in your episode with him and Dr Stuart Philips, that it was about 1,3-1,4 g/kg, or somewhere in that ballpark
Although, it may not be a huge difference, I think his pro animal foods bias is kinda evident throughout the podcast. That’s not surprising since he even mentioned that he was on the egg board…
As a plant based Vegan how do I get that much protein in a day and which foods have leucien if I don't eat eggs?
I guess you would need to eat 25% more protein from soy (compared to eggs/meat). So you might be eating soy all day, which may not be healthy either, at least if unfermented.
After listening I started searching the Internet of what protein heavy sources he favors , and/or outright says is not good .
I can’t find anything on that.
Does anyone know?
Does doing anything for muscle help with ALS?
Great Podcast!