I remember when in my early days of Magic, i was still learning about the mechanics, recognizing some keywords here and there and learning about the importance of hitting your land drops and casting spells, and then a friend of mine pulled out his manaless dredge deck and just threw everything i was learning straight out the window. Good times.
The short version is: it isn’t by itself, but when combined with cards that let you use your graveyard as a second hand, “dredge X” becomes analogous to “draw X”
Self mill decks do not care about their hands beyond how much their hand can help get cards into the graveyard. The graveyard is where their resources are and the more cards they can mill in a turn the more options they get. Dredge turns one potentially useful card draw into multiple potentially useful milled cards.
Every single card with Dredge is a one card engine with any discard effect up to and including the game rule that says you discard to hand size at the end of your turn, as well as with any other card that mills, up to and including every card with the word "Dredge" on it. This means that any card with Dredge has an entire text box which is totally irrelevant - the only thing that matters is that it says Dredge with a number next to it. That many of them also have a text box with good things in it doesn't hurt of course, especially Life from the Loam, one of the most ridiculous one card engines ever printed.
It's very good at getting around control elements. So it pisses off people who's entire goal is to piss you off. That's what makes it a beautiful thing.
@@NizzahonMagic the decks were contemporary, at least the version I played, which splashed black for Dark Confidant and Cabal Therapy. The original one splashed white for Solitary Confinement, if I'm not mistaken.
Dredge would always be my favorite deck in modern, even though it is not very good right now but forcing your opponent mulligan into a shitty hand with graveyard hate hoping that would be enough is the best feeling in the world
From 2013-2016 I had about a dozen legacy classic/open top 16s and a top 8 in 2014 with manaless dredge. It’s a shame eternal formats are becoming mostly online only at this point. I’d love to start playing again
Playing Dredge is the MtG equivalent of hurling your fridge and pantry into a landfill then swimming into the rubbish to find the tasty, juicy treats sloshing inside the muck
Manaless Dredge into Flayer of the Hatebound/Falkenrath Noble was my introduction to Legacy. It was an incredibly fun deck to pilot, although pretty easy to disrupt once you won game one 😅 Also, Richard Garfield didn't intend on Magic to be played AT ALL the way it is today, idk why people keep rerunning that joke when his intentions were to build a quick game designed to be bought impulsively at checkout registers in retail stores
The first "real" dredge decks with flame-kin zealot and Bridge from Below actually emerged in Standard in 2007 during Ravnica/Time Spiral standard, using blue looter creatures to dredge and discard.
As a longtime dredge and bridgevine player, seeing the two being described as the same deck hurts a bit. Not only because they are very different decks to play, but also because of the injust banning of Bridge from Below as a result of Hogaak being printed (and then not unbanned when the real problem was banned) which essentially killed any hope of seeing the deck make a splash anymore. Even worse is people pointing at dredge being a good deck still as an argument against unbanning Bridge; Modern dredge doesn't want or need Bridge, only bridgevine does.
I hate to be that guy when you're putting so much effort into these excellent videos... ... but you misspelled "Terravore" at 2:30. Just thought you should know.
@@movezig5 It actually says 3W Watery Grade. While we're at it... 6:20 - Flame-King Zealot 7:27 - Cincinatti 11:00 & 11:41 - Bloodhgast 11:41 - Blackleave & Stomping Grounds I can't imagine how annoying it must be to write Magic content when spellcheck flags so many of your words since they're words or names created by Magic.
Is the Standard version of Dredge playing Magus of the Bazaar not worth mentioning? I guess it wasn't in Standard for very long, only coming in with Future Sight, and then rotating out with Lorwyn.
I remember when in my early days of Magic, i was still learning about the mechanics, recognizing some keywords here and there and learning about the importance of hitting your land drops and casting spells, and then a friend of mine pulled out his manaless dredge deck and just threw everything i was learning straight out the window. Good times.
Manaless Dredge is my all time favorite archetype. It shows just how insane the magic card pool is and how creative this game's pros are.
Manaless dredge with Grief 🤩
Dredge is one of those mechanics that I never fully grasped WHY it was so broken, but this will be a great thing to help me see why
The short version is: it isn’t by itself, but when combined with cards that let you use your graveyard as a second hand, “dredge X” becomes analogous to “draw X”
Self mill decks do not care about their hands beyond how much their hand can help get cards into the graveyard. The graveyard is where their resources are and the more cards they can mill in a turn the more options they get. Dredge turns one potentially useful card draw into multiple potentially useful milled cards.
Consistency better than anything else in a given format, that's the strength of dredge to me.
Every single card with Dredge is a one card engine with any discard effect up to and including the game rule that says you discard to hand size at the end of your turn, as well as with any other card that mills, up to and including every card with the word "Dredge" on it. This means that any card with Dredge has an entire text box which is totally irrelevant - the only thing that matters is that it says Dredge with a number next to it. That many of them also have a text box with good things in it doesn't hurt of course, especially Life from the Loam, one of the most ridiculous one card engines ever printed.
It's very good at getting around control elements.
So it pisses off people who's entire goal is to piss you off.
That's what makes it a beautiful thing.
I like how one dude describing Dredge decks and players to me as players who don’t want to play magic but instead playing magic in reverse.
Wednesday mornings start nicely for me: coffee, a Borzoi draped across my lap and a Nizzahon Deck History video. Nice.
Borzoi?
@@corradoalamanni179 its a breed of dog. They're long. Long dogs.
@@TehSeksyManz thank you
Sounds great!
Lucky i was throwing up some Wendy's
Assault Loam is one of my favorite decks of all time. I wasn't expecting to see it in the Dredge video tbh, but I guess it makes sense.
It is sort of pre-Dredge for sure, but I think an important step on the road to all-in Dredge.
@@NizzahonMagic the decks were contemporary, at least the version I played, which splashed black for Dark Confidant and Cabal Therapy. The original one splashed white for Solitary Confinement, if I'm not mistaken.
Dredge would always be my favorite deck in modern, even though it is not very good right now but forcing your opponent mulligan into a shitty hand with graveyard hate hoping that would be enough is the best feeling in the world
Such a good series, this is a really awesome and through analysis of decks all throughout magic history
From 2013-2016 I had about a dozen legacy classic/open top 16s and a top 8 in 2014 with manaless dredge. It’s a shame eternal formats are becoming mostly online only at this point. I’d love to start playing again
Now we have thrilling discovery and otherworldly gaze, which are incredible ways to load up your graveyard
Playing Dredge is the MtG equivalent of hurling your fridge and pantry into a landfill then swimming into the rubbish to find the tasty, juicy treats sloshing inside the muck
I don't even play Magic, but I watch every video you put out. Let that be a testament to your well-researched and well-presented content.
Thanks!
@@NizzahonMagic I'm STARSTRUCK
Manaless Dredge into Flayer of the Hatebound/Falkenrath Noble was my introduction to Legacy. It was an incredibly fun deck to pilot, although pretty easy to disrupt once you won game one 😅
Also, Richard Garfield didn't intend on Magic to be played AT ALL the way it is today, idk why people keep rerunning that joke when his intentions were to build a quick game designed to be bought impulsively at checkout registers in retail stores
You should set splinter twin as an only choice and see if it can truly stay as a joke and not win the vote.
Poll with 2 options: twin, or give Nizzahon a Wednesday off
Don't forget about cracking LED in response to your breakthrough, then flashback faithless 👍usually have lethal next turn
This series is awesome, thanks Nizzahon!
My fav archetype since 2007
This video is so fresh and crisp.
I would really like to see the History of storm. My favorite keyword of all time
Excellent! Now I need to get some gameplay videos of it to grasp the interactions :P
The first "real" dredge decks with flame-kin zealot and Bridge from Below actually emerged in Standard in 2007 during Ravnica/Time Spiral standard, using blue looter creatures to dredge and discard.
Would love a video on Death's Shadow.
As a longtime dredge and bridgevine player, seeing the two being described as the same deck hurts a bit. Not only because they are very different decks to play, but also because of the injust banning of Bridge from Below as a result of Hogaak being printed (and then not unbanned when the real problem was banned) which essentially killed any hope of seeing the deck make a splash anymore. Even worse is people pointing at dredge being a good deck still as an argument against unbanning Bridge; Modern dredge doesn't want or need Bridge, only bridgevine does.
probably been stated before but Matti the magic online player is actually the finnish Gold Pro and 2018 GP Barcelona champion Matti Kuisma
I'm just noticing that the Grave Troll has two eyes. I thought it was a cyclops! The nose looks like a single eye from far away.
I like the good old days where people were left speechless at the lgs when you played manaless dredge against them
Thank you for sharing your wisdom, Master 'Hone 🧘♂️
The logical next step after Manaless Dredge was Dredgeless Dredge
I hate to be that guy when you're putting so much effort into these excellent videos...
... but you misspelled "Terravore" at 2:30.
Just thought you should know.
Also, the decklist at 5:00 says "3W Watery Grave."
@@movezig5 It actually says 3W Watery Grade. While we're at it...
6:20 - Flame-King Zealot
7:27 - Cincinatti
11:00 & 11:41 - Bloodhgast
11:41 - Blackleave & Stomping Grounds
I can't imagine how annoying it must be to write Magic content when spellcheck flags so many of your words since they're words or names created by Magic.
Is the Standard version of Dredge playing Magus of the Bazaar not worth mentioning? I guess it wasn't in Standard for very long, only coming in with Future Sight, and then rotating out with Lorwyn.
I dredge this moment
Hogaak would like to know your location
"What is Mana? "
-Manaless Dredge Player
Funny how Splinter Twin literally never wins. FeelsBadMan
Poor twin
And I will make sure that it never does
@@poiri >:(
I wish you included sideboard in the deck lists 😓
Dredge is dead now, it's so hard to win with it among all those graveyard hate.
No Standard Dread Return => Flame-kin Zealot version?
Yeah that was actually the origin of real dredge decks.
Please do Merfolk next!
Dredge player here 🙆♂
#unbangravetroll
2:31 What’s a Terrafore? 😝
Do a history of my commander deck and why it KEEPS LOSING HELP.ME
Give us the Twin video already!
No mana huh? We're really playing Yu-Gi-Oh in magic smh
Unban Golgari Grave troll you cowards.
1st lol