I actually like that he hammers one point home: The "brand safe era" of Mario only started *after* NSMB DS. That first game actually had a ton of original ideas, half of them never being revisited and the other half diluted into nothingness by its sequels.
NSMB proper really felt like a giant blend of GameCube era Mario, from the voice clips being derived from Double Dash to Petey Piranha being dragged in from Sunshine to even a bit of Melee with Bowser using stock roar sfx. Disclaimer, I haven’t played any of the Mario Party or sports games on the GameCube so I can’t really speak on their influence on NSMB
The "no unique characters" mandate for the Paper Mario series is one of the most baffling creative decisions to me. I hope TTYD Remake doing so well changes their mind about it
A lot of Paper Mario fans started disliking Miyamoto after that, which would be surprising in the alternate universe where there was either no new paper mario game after Super (maybe until the switch or it's later years), or in the one where they actually progressed Sticker Star's beta into a full game (that one was "too much like TTYD" so it was scrapped, there was a chain chomp partner :[ )
@@mariotheundying I remember that trailer for what became Sticker Star and with it resembling TTYD my hype was high. Turns out the only semi-enjoyable Mario RPGs to come out were basically the Mario+Luigi games for over a decade. Thankfully the remake of TTYD is doing pretty excellent so hopefully we get a return to form in the coming years.
Epic Cat Moments: - 14:42 : Scott attempts to protect his cat from Paper Mario Sticker Star. - 15:14 : The side of Scott's cat can be seen as it loafs besides Paper Mario Sticker Star, it seems to be very interested. - 16:08 : Scott's cat's paw can be seen at the top, reaching out to Scott possibly. - 17:04 : The Cat flops over, clearly shocked at Nintendo's disrespect of the Paper Mario series. - 18:44 : The Cat, who is still flopped over, keeps trying to reach for Scott's hands. - 19:26 : The Cat is sleeby, it is eepy,. Subscrible to Scott's Stash for more Epic Cat Moments
14:41 I like to think that Scott had something roughly scripted to say, saw his cat get on the table carpet, then used his infinite knowledge to create something more comedic
@@travislooney4539he posted a picture on Twitter of a giant table covered in carpet with the caption “this is how I film the carpet scenes. I’m sorry.”
I'll never forget the Iwata Asks about Sticker Star, where they both say that Super Paper Mario's reception on Club Nintendo caused them to lean away from story, and how miyamoto asked them to keep the character designs "from the classic mario games". Both of which turned the game that was basically looking to be a return to ttyd into what we got today. Ive definitely mellowed out but teen me was absolutely furious lmao.
That was always so weird to me because no other series has changed its entire identity because of poor reception on Club Nintendo, like why is Paper Mario the only one that did that?
@@Sylamp Super deserved that reception too and that advice is actually pretty good: the TTYD designs were largely from "Classic Mario games" with some additional design elements. Supers enemies and characters were literally arbitrary squares most of the time. It's entirely on the director of the game for messing up the designs and honestly I blame super more than anything for the downfall of Paper Mario. If we got a "Paper Mario 3" on the Wii's launch instead we'd probably be on our 4th or 5th TTYD style game.
@@uponeric36 ok, I don't really care if Super deserved that reception or not, my question is why was Paper Mario the only series that completely changed it's identity because of results of a Club Nintendo survey, most people who were doing them didn't care about giving geniune feedback and just wanted free gold coins to redeem for rewards so they were just picking the top options to get through the them quicker, so I'm sure that the Super Paper Mario survey wasn't the only one that had a "99% of people hated this part of the game" result, yet Paper Mario is the only series where based on that survey they decided to throw out everything that made that series good and it just doesn't make any sense to me
@@uponeric36Absolutely not. Super still had interesting conceptional ideas with execution that was a lot better than you're trying to give it credit for. Infact, I don't really see how super is relevant when we're talking about Sticker Star and how they settled on that. If super received flack on the characters, writing, and gameplay then that's up to the team in the next game to address this going forward which means Super isn't really at fault here. The only thing you could really blame Super here was that it was the first step on dropping the traditional gameplay opening up leeway for gameplay that deviates from what was introduced for the first few paper Marios. Anyways, Super kicks ass and it was a pretty good time than people give it credit for which is bizarre to me considering sticker star is right there. Lots of unique characters and writing that's still some of the best in the series by far. And after all, if we were to start playing the blame game we'd be pointing fingers at TTYD for introducing elements that would makes its way into Super. Which doesn't seem really fair to the development of TTYD or Super now does it?
@@SylampIt's one of two things, either Paper Mario fans were overwhelmingly vocal and dedicated to letting Nintendo know they despised the direction they went with (just like that guy from earlier) or Nintendo is just trying to simplify their reasoning to one element even though there's a lot of thought that went into this change. Because if you look back, in some old interviews I believe Miyamoto did not like elements from paper Mario such as Bowser's characterization. There's also beta footage for sticker star that has original looking designs from older games such as one of the moles you fight. I don't really think they'd just strip away sticker star exclusively anyways I'm pretty sure this was during a time in which Miyamoto and other Nintendo people wanted to make Mario franchises "consistent and uniform."
I feel like you didn't touch on the game that was hurt by this the most: Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam. A crossover between Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario, the two flagship mario RPGs, the possibilities were endless and the imaginations of fans went wild as they thought about how it would tie those two different styles of RPG comedic storytelling. But it too was affected by the restrictions on what you could do with Mario applied to the paper mario series so no original characters or enemies, so even though it wanted to be a mix of both, it wasn't allowed to be either, and sent Alpha Dream into the remake mines till the company died.
I mean, the developers explained that the reason many of the enemies were from either Sticker Star, the New Super Mario Bros. series, 3D Land, or 3D World was to make them highlight the juxtaposition between the normal and paper characters. This isn’t an excuse, just the reason why Paper Jam ended up the way it did.
And I will give PJ this, they did use enemies not often seen in the M&L series (Buzzy Beetles, which to date, haven’t even appeared in a 3D Mario game), or were new at the time (Biddybud, Sandmarggh, I’m glad even Nabbit appeared, as my appreciation and love for the character has grown over the years). I wish they went further, bring in some of the more obscure 3D Land, World, and NSMB characters (ones even the people who complain about the games don’t remember) (I.e. Waddlewings, Dragoneels, Boohemoth, Kab-ombs, etc.), but people don’t seem to give games like PJ, NSMB, PM CS & OK, and 3DL the credit they at least deserve.
@heihogreenzx4704 this was beautiful to read. while I have my problems with the game I always appreciate someone able to take the time and see that there WAS care and love put into the game. But unfortunately in game design, rarely does care from the bottom lead to a great game :(
Let's not forget about the Super Star Saga remake where they changed the unique art style of the original GBA game to the basic style to line up with the rest of the series.
and then it doesn’t leave and, I assume, demands pets or enjoy’s hearing Scott ramble on about video games. That’s a good, cute and respectable cat right there.
While people usually describe TTYD as the peak of “weird Mario”, I would actually say Super Paper Mario is the true height of the franchise doing cool, bizarre, experimental things.
Yeah, TTYD is my favorite, but ive seen so many people say things along the lines of "TTYD is the weirdest Mario have ever gotten!" Like.. Super is RIGHT there. Its literally the very next game and very well known for being batshit insane.
That’s the problem. There was backlash in Japan over Suoer Paper Mario not being "Mario like" and I think that’s part of how we ended up in this situation. It made Nintendo back off and be more protective of the brand image, so to speak.
It was the time of the weird mix of quality cause on one hand you had Super Paper Mario (my personal favorite), 3d world, and Galaxy, but then you had all of the "New" series and the strange direction of Mario party. It was just a very..awkward time for Mario games. They'll all have a place in my heart despite it
@@FunniNarudyne yeah thats true. I played the NSMB games and 3D Land as a kid, didn't really have much else. I think at the time it was perfect for me but nowadays I would much rather play something else
@@3dsfan2002 I don't think theres anything wrong with 3D Land, I want to revisit it soon. But it isn't a great game it's pretty much JUST a good game y'know?
I'm so glad Mario's starting to return to its roots when it comes to creative ideas in spinoffs (and to a slight extent, mainline games). Hopefully the success of SMRPG and TTYD's remakes will be the final push it needs.
@@AlfeniumWe just got remakes of TTYD, vs. DK and RPG. We're literally back to the Mario RPG franchise's roots this year. And "never" is a strong word.
Mario already returned to form things to the movie so it’s been about a year I’m glad Mario wonder made 2-D Mario original again it hadn’t been 17 years since in actually original Mario game that was 2d
@@leonro I think super Mario wonder is the best modern Mario game because it’s actually original and brings back some of the fun from previous 2-D Mario games
And it's funny because Nintendo's generally been making a push to simplify logos lately. DK, Kirby, Pikmin, even Zelda - they've all had overhauls in the Switch era that tend to simplify certain elements, though I think the Pikmin logo change is the only one that's really a downgrade.
As someone who lived through this entire era, I’m definitely glad to see Mario actually being more weird and experimental again after a decade of the same homogeneous banality. Games like Odyssey and Wonder have honestly reinvigorated my interest in both 2D and 3D Mario, and Nintendo remaking both Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario TTYD at least shows that they acknowledge that people want that style for the Mario RPGs back. Though whether or not we get more brand new Mario RPGs like them in the future has yet to be seen, but the optimist in me hope that it’ll be the case.
Really, Wonder? I honestly cannot bring myself to get it. I've played all the New Super Mario and 3D land/world games and to me Wonder looks like just another incremental installment. Like "Here's another animal power-up like the racoon/squirrel/cat". Idk maybe I need to give it a chance...
@@uroskesic6117 Mario + Rabbids is a gem and truly captures the magic earlier Mario spin off games had (like 1000 year door, Mario and Luigi, etc). Origami King was poorly received. I never finished it, wasn't terrible but wasn't amazing either. Excited to play 1000 year door remake though!
@@daily_pocket_review Dude do me a favor and after your done with the ttyd remake go replay origami king pls.The first chapter might seem dull at first but after that everything else get s better and better trust me
Super Paper Mario was the first Mario game on the Wii, and it's the weirdest, most outlandish Mario game to date. The only thing that happened was that Miyamoto didn't like that the franchise was expanding beyond the original games and specifically didn't want anything new or different. They didn't really start going for "safe" choices until Galaxy 2, but it really got bad with NSMB2 and Sticker Star. I honestly don't remember anybody complaining about NSMB Wii when it came out. Only people being excited to see the Koopalings again...back when they weren't in every single game. It was nice having a console 2D Mario back then and now it just seems like it's getting shit on for being guilty by association since it was the first to do things a lot of people ended up getting tired of from other games biting off of it.
I remember seeing somewhere in an interview with Shigeru Miyamoto in 2017 stating that because of his experience, Koizumi no longer had to seek approval of Miyamoto for game development and are now allowed to do whatever he wishes. And the same applied to every other developer.
Brand standardization IMO isn’t bad in it of itself, but it can have severe drawbacks if it’s adhered too for far too long or used an excuse to not think outside the box. Wonder and the return of Super Mario RPG plus Paper Mario TTYD hopefully is the beginning of the return for experimental Mario.
@@myriadmediamusingsit isn’t all bad but in a way, it devalues the material it uses for standardization. Super Mario Workd doesn’t feel as weird or unique anymore, despite the fact it very much is. I also ain’t holding my breath for the end of the era. Remakes inspire little confidence they still have it.
Honestly, I'm still amazed Mario Golf Super Rush gave the cast actual golf shirts and slacks. That's a lot of character compared to the usual using the same standard Mario outfits the characters literally always wear again. Baby steps
Mario Tennis Aces also did the same thing and that game came out before Golf Rush. I wouldn't be surprised if Camelot sticks with the themed outfits from now on.
There was character in the outfits but it was devoid of character everywhere else. A staple of that franchise has been the tons of unique and funny animations all the characters have, and they couldn't even manage that. Plus the game was barebones as everloving christ
@@3dsfan2002 it’s one of my favourite 3ds games and maybe my favourite in the series. It’s just so fun. People might hate the final boss but I think it’s fitting for him to be a final boss for once and not be tricked like the previous games (don’t wanna spoil). Also I never heard of anyone saying it’s too much dialogue untill this video legit the entire series has so much dialogue
@@imbored1179 It's less about "dialogue" and more specifically that the game feels handhold-y with tutorials happening all the way through. It just gets to a point where you're like "alright man I'm not gonna accidentally explode the 3DS, just back off and let me enjoy the game" lol. Same thing with Pokemon SuMo. I have no idea why they lost faith in players during this time period but they definitely did and you could feel it.
I'm a big tactics/stragegy genre fan, and those two games really surprised me. It seemed like someone at Nintendo or Ubisoft played XCOM or Fire Emblem a bit too much, and decided what they really needed was a Mario tactics game. And they actually delivered. I really didn't expect Nintendo to allow the necessary creativity with the IP. If only it wasn't tied to an Ubisoft IP that literally no one cares about. If Nintendo had passed this project off to one of their inhouse devs and the resulting product had 0 rabbids in it, I think it would have been much more successful, even holding everything else about the game the same. The least successful part of those games was the crossover with a c-tier franchise.
@redlion145 I get that but a Great Game is a Great Game I think the Crossover made it stand out compared to being just an in-house thing And Sparks of Hope DLC with Rayman that didn't forget about the Character
12:40 This is one of the most infuriating aspects of the Boring Era. There are hundreds of times where they’ll introduce a new enemy or a new mechanic, but you’d only ever discover that reading the Mario Wiki rather than playing the actual game because they’re either used once or they’re tied to a tired theme. It’s like they’ve intentionally gone out of their way to hide or disguise their unique ideas so they wouldn’t stick out of the mush. I’m glad Nintendo seem to be trying the opposite approach with Mario where they’re not embarrassed to get weird while freshening up what’s been familiar.
Listen, I HATE it whenever people exaggerate something in one way or another. But I think it is a genuine skill to make a Mario game boring. Mario is literally all about fun and to make a game that is devoid of any emotion is actually fucking impressive to me. Also I saying Sticker Star is boring is still giving it too much credit. I like that game more than most people (Aka not thinking it’s a war crime), but that game is FRUSTRATING more than anything
Sticker Star gives off old point and click PC game nonsense sometimes. It's also my favorite Paper Mario game. I never beat Bowser because I never found the tablets of yore or whatever.
The Mario series having a Status Quo that it can't deviate from is, I think, antithetical to the spirit of the series which is about having surreal, cartoony fun, something out of the ordinary.
I liked that NSMBW brought back the Koopalings, who I thought were very cool, but then every game in that era started bringing back the Koopalings, leading to the infamous Mario Kart 8 Roster Incident of 2014
They barely fleshed out the characterization of the Koopalings after returning in a long while...sure Color Splash did kinda something but they showed up like a glimpse here or there.
@@zjzr08 The only time where I felt the Koopalings were properly fleshed out as characters was in the Bowser Jr Journey mode in Bowser's Inside Story 3DS, which is a shame because very few people gave a damn about that remake and thus most never got to see it. There, they actually got quite a bit of screen time, and their relationships and interactions with Jr. and each other were genuinely interesting to me, in spite of Bowser Jr's Journey's "eh" gameplay.
Nsmb wii is definitely just getting guilty by association treatment. It's like calling mario 64 unoriginal because all of the 3D games are just about collecting stars when it was the first to do it. The koopalings were completely gone for over a decade before Wii brought them back, and this was only the second game in this series. The later games had no reason to essentially do the EXACT same thing that Wii did, or even 3D Land. Hell, if anything they were essentially just putting out as many shitty copies of SMW as they could when Wii was already heavily based on said game.
Yeah I think this is the first time we've seen the cat. Scott has two cats. Or are they the studio cats? Like I still don't know if Scott has a separate studio, or if all his videos for both channels are just filmed in his house. I'm talking about the videos with the other guys when they talk about stuff in that living room setting. The cats have appeared in another Scott's Stash video, where Scott and the other guys were talking about some subject. Can't remember the topic though. The two cats just appear, and the guys didn't even acknowledge them! It was honestly kinda bizarre
@@Chickengirl005 they've appeared in a few other stash videos. Can't remember which one, but they do pretty much what they did here: walk over the game cases and he casually shoots them away.
Graphics: Charming diorama visuals Music: Amazing jazz, saves it from obscurity Gameplay: Mario can't use his jump or hammer command without his stickers.
Insane to believe we lived through nearly a decade of generic Mario slop until Nintendo decided to finally flip on the creativity switch in their heads and do something actually interesting with entries like odyssey or wonder .
The more I think about the “Bland Era of Mario the more I appreciate 3D World. It’s already my second favorite game of all time, but the way it pushed for originality with its Power Ups, it’s enemies, it’s style of music, all super original and it stands out more due to when it released
I think the difference is that the core 3D Mario team will always get a bit more creative license, plus how it’s actually in 3D, so basically 3D world feels like a greatest hits album as opposed to stuff like New Super Mario Bros feeling like cover albums.
@@jclkaytwo3D land isn't that bland to me, it just feels a bit more subdued when compared to the bombasticness of 3D world, 3D Land had this funky vibe especially with the level design and I love it
@@Soracayo I'm very nostalgic for 3D land, and I replayed it this year for the first time in many years... and honestly, the game is completely soulless. it has zero identity of its own, instead choosing to build itself exclusively off mario 3 references. it is one of the single blandest mario games, period. the game is extremely fun to play but let's not conflate that with personality.
The biggest crime of the safe era of Mario is that all the newest stuff from the most newer games barely showed up in the spinoffs. Like, the Broodals and all the unique races from Odyssey are forever trapped into that game, unlike Mario Sunshine which ended up getting a ton of love in Mario Power Tennis & Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door.
The Switch era has been a very valiant effort to end the boring Mario phase. Odyssey absolutely smashed the stagnation of 3D Mario, and pretty much every side game at least made strides in the right direction too. I hope future generations continue that path
I grew up during this period of Mario ('06 baby), and think it's why I always preferred the Kirby series. I only had a 3DS when I was younger so seeing Kirby always adding new enemies, bosses, and copy abilities with each game while the Mario series kept on doing the same basic ideas drew me more towards the former.
Kirby is directed by the legendary Masahiro Sakurai so it's no wonder. What's interesting is he isn't employed by Nintendo - they contract him. That possibly gives Sakurai a level of freedom above other Nintendo directors especially with his bread and butter of Kirby and Smash bros.
Sticker Star is one of the most clear examples of a game with a serious lack of creativity on top of unrealistic expectations for the player for how it portrayed its puzzles.
By standardizing Mario they also made it genuinely sort of difficult to realize that there were even new games coming out . Unless you were really tuned into the Mario series, a lot of these games look so similar you wouldn't even realize they weren't the same game.
@@kiddkd7242 same old same old. Instead of being happy many people are choosing to continue being negative. It's better than it was but those who liked sticker star, color splash and origami king have been getting shit on. I say this as someone who's favorite game in the series is ttyd. Hopefully someday it will all calm down but as it stands now the fanbase is still fairly toxic in several circles
@@unraged6004I understand people really care about these games and they're in their absolute right to be totally angry that a huge part of their identity was taken from them but I really wish a lot of them could be less negative and toxic. Well, it is what it is
When Nintendo only focused on appealing to the casual gamers, they forgot one thing: Casual gamers don't stick to one thing, and move onto the next trend. Which left the core fans with all the bland games.
For me, Mario games, the best ones, are a sort of dream-like experience? Colourful, a little surreal, something that's nostalgic with familiar faces while not shying away from being quirky and unexpected.
There’s an old theory about Disney and Mickey. The idea is that Disney hasn’t made a big new movie starring Mickey, tends to license him out very sparingly or in novelty situations, because he’s their big icon and they’d have infinitely more to lose on him being associated with a flop then they’d even have to gain on a massive success with him in it. I think Nintendo realized this was the case with Mario too a decade ago
surprised you didn't mention Mario & Luigi Paper Jam. What was supposed to be a crossover of two of the wackiest Mario series resulted in probably one of the "safest" games Nintendo ever put out (plus the remakes they made later on that dumbed down the unique npcs and enemies)
Better than Sticker Star... Worst Mario and Luigi title in my opinion. Yes I had more fun with Dream Team hell even Origami King. But even playing hacky sack with your own balls is more fun than Sticker Star.
@@Link_1129 At the same time, I bought PM64 and the original TTYD back in the day, and I still had to wait 20 years for a return to form... and it's a remake. I can't help but think they'll just do whatever afterwards :/
It's funny that both Mario and Sonic both underwent a "safe era" at the roughly the same time (early 2010s or so) and exited it at roughly the same time as well (early 2020s). The contexts and contents of both are very different (Sonic's safe era has a lot more to do with Colors being the best received Sonic game in years and SEGA taking the wrong lessons to learn from it, among other things), but the similarities are there.
While Colors and Generations played a part, I would argue Sega did the safe era for Sonic mainly because Sonic Boom. Boom was meant to be a separate reimagined universe, and looked to be more experimental. But when it flopped, Sega got cold feet and decided to stick to the usual suspects of Sonic like Green Hill and other references to past games. Frontiers and the Generations remaster seem to be a sendoff to that safe era and hopefully Frontiers’ followup will be fully original while the remakes and remasters fill the nostalgia quota if Sega are to keep seeking it.
@@jaretco6423I remember having a lot of fun with the gameplay as well, the 2D/3D switch mechanic was pretty cool and the gp in general is a lot better than the sticker bullshit. It's a pretty underrated game that has nothing to do with paper mario's downfall imo.
I do enjoy the 2D games. As someone with onset parkinson's, 3D games are a bit much for me....but so happy I can play fun platformers. Actually played the older 2D ones lately via emulator from Wii, WIiU, 3ds :)
I feel sorry for NSMB, it got weighed down by NSMBW, NSMB2 and NSMBU/NSLBU/Deluxe. It was legitimately a unique 2D Mario game with its own identity, and is one of the best mainline titles in its own right.
Regarding Sticker Star, even without story and characters and stuff, why did they have to strip the battles of any/all fun? Why did we have to strip out EXP and badges and FP??? Sticker Star could have been *acceptable* if it still kept the elements of the first 2 Paper Marios, or went completely into Super's style. Instead we got a watered down, garbage JRPG that punishes you for battling very boring battles and just wastes your time. Like it literally makes no sense. Sure it was New Souped up, but that doesn't mean the *GAMEPLAY* has to be completely stripped!
@@Bd-qs5bn That's my point: They should have made stickers the "badges" instead. That would have been a funny way to keep the badge system, just calling them stickers instead. There's no need for them to have completely stripped the game to this garbage.
@@Polarthief I don't know. I had fun the whole game. So something clicked with me.
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I like how the cat is not affected at all by Scott talking and raising his voice I just imagine Scott talking to his cat about random video game stuff like he does in videos all day long
See, when Mario lost his voice in Super Paper Mario and they changed the gameplay style, I didn't care because the game was still pretty good, and he was still somewhat expressive so it didn't matter. STICKER STAR, HOWEVER, GAVE ME GINGIVITIS.
@frazercowan4030 He had far less of them compared to TTYD, I consider that game to be the start of them going like, "Well, we want this game to be really good but we also want it to be boring.. Screw it, let it be good, we'll ruin the next one!"
Even as a kid, seeing the New Super Mario Bros. renders as the general renders for Mario characters felt boring. They're so lifeless. And they specially look wrong with the front view. Why are those actual promotional images? They look like reference renders or character sheets, which they probably are, but videogame stores used them as posters
As someone who had most of their childhood consist of the brand safe era, (very early childhood consisted of the Wii and Ds era) I have many fond memories of enjoying this era of Mario. Looking back now, I can see the many flaws of the brand safe games during this era, but I will still admit that I do enjoy these games. I am excited for this new era of creativity when it comes to the Mario franchise. Also I’m glad you enjoy Color Splash Scott! I do too!
I always think back to E3 2013 and the Super Mario 3D World reveal. At the time, reception was kind of mixed. Everyone agreed it would probably be a fine game, but it was so deeply underwhelming in terms of style. People were waiting for the next Galaxy moment and it just looked like ANOTHER NSMB-themed Mario game. Because NSMB Wii sold a ton of copies. So Nintendo assumed that everyone bought a Wii for NSMB when it was more like NSMB just happened to be a safe game to buy if you owned a Wii. Months later Nintendo released a far more interesting trailer for 3D World that showcased all its unique appeal, but I think they blew their first impression when they had all cameras on them. I like to think that the middling reaction to that first trailer is what caused them to course correct.
holy shit, i heard “mario sports superstars” and thought “does he mean mario sports mix?” and no; i just completely forgot that mario sports superstars was a game that released
I’ll never forget the time when my parents offered to buy me a new 3DS game and I had a choice between Sticker Star and Animal Crossing New Leaf. I chose Sticker Star 💀
I once had a choice between a new 3DS XL and the Star Fox Zero bundle. I chose the 3DS thank GOD, but i still can’t believe i actually had to think about that 💀
Well I’d say Super Mario Odyssey was the ultimate form of an original Mario game at its time. It was all sorts of things I didn’t associate Mario with before.
Galaxy 2 going from one of the more basic Mario games to having absolutely insane and brutal levels later on is one of the coolest things ever. Stone Cyclone, Boss Blitz, Grandmaster, the 120 green stars and The Perfect Run may reuse a ton of Galaxy 1 stuff, but they make Galaxy 2 feel SO much more like its own thing, like an evolution of the first game that’s way harder and more experimental. You have to get 60-70 stars to get to World S, but it’s so worth it. Galaxy 2 is the one truly exceptional Mario game from 2008-2017 and everyone should play it
I remember reading a little bit back that Nintendo in the last 10 years or so has been pushing "new" when it comes to the series concepts or gameplay but not characters. They won't make a new F-Zero game since there isn't anything "new" they can do with racing, etc. Plus, if a game doesn't sell well, they don't go back to the drawing board; they just scrap that franchise (Star Fox, Chibi-Robo, etc.). Nintendo likes to "hold the fun hostage" so to speak.
It’s ironic because franchise like Star Fox and Chibi-Robo got screwed because of the lack of new ideas. Star Fox Zero was just a rehash of Star Fox 64 that forced Gyro controls onto the player and the “new” Walker gameplay was a revived idea from the then scrapped Star Fox 2. Chibi-Robo Zip Lash was just a generic 2d platformer released on a handheld that already had a crap ton of superior 2d platformers.
An interesting coincidence is that the Sonic franchise also sort of went through its own kind of bland era during this same time period, dubbed the "meta" era by fans.
Paper mario TTYD redefined mario games for me and made me enjoy the franchise, soon as mario became bland it felt so empty and boring. I don’t know who’s decision it was to change these things for paper mario but they need to be fired immediately.
It feels like the mid 2000s was a period of time where people made fun of franchises for being fun. Nintendo and Sega thought being lame was more profitable to people who think world building is LOL-worthy for any kind of cartoony franchise.
Man the gamecube deserved better. Both the system and its legacy. The creativity and risk of the gamecube is an era I'm glad I was a kid to experience. The pushing out games real face thing maybe not I'm still mourning what Wind Waker could've been.
Funny you would bring this up. I was actually just thinking about this era while playing Paper Mario 2 on Switch. No more unique enemy characters, bland worlds. No more weird levels like we had in the Gameboy "Land" games.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Nintendo wanting core Mario to have a specific identity, and I think basing an RPG around that specific canon is interesting in it's own way. The problem was how prominently Mario's present was defined by his past. After he went to space, they just sorta stopped lifting him to new heights.
There was an old design tenant they used to have in any sequel of their games: have 50% of it be old, and 50% of it be new. Without those bits of new stuff, the lore and wonder dies. Mario Kart used to be a poster child that did this literally with its tracks: half of the courses in a game would be new, and the other half would be returning tracks from older games in the series.
I just wish they would seperate paper mario and Mario & Luigi series and main line mario not holding them to the same standard Paper mario and M&L’s charm IS the wackyness and fun adventure, they can Co-exist and people love both dearly. Tldr; Keep the RPG games (PM and M&L, strictly RPG with wacky and interesting characters)
@@artsykero I think the paper mario designs work well with being a story book within the real mario's world. Like, it makes sense for a fairy tale to have unique characters and a distinct look. Similar to how there are wolves in real life, and then wolves who can talk and dress up as grandma in a fairy tale.
Fortune Street is one of only a handful of games that gives each individual Nintendo characters any personality beyond a blank slate. The interactions between Dragon Quest and Mario characters are really funny, also I love the fact that they act as if the Mii of the player is their own character. If you have a female Mii, you get Bowser pondering whether to kidnap you or "the gold standard of Peach".
this was a really heavily marketed era for mario they wanted it to be as simple as possible to maximize profit and it really made the games feel more like a product less then a game
Its crazy that I grew up with this era of Mario and thought this was just how Mario was. I ate it up of course. But I genuinely wonder how theyre going to get out of this weird hole they dug themselves in. It's something I'm not entirely used to but I'm still interested to see where they take Mario next
11:44 - Ah yes, how could we forget... the Mario Party that totally shafted Luigi on the cover. They had no problem throwing in _two_ Toads, 1-2 Cheep Cheeps, a Koopa Troopa, a Shy Guy, Birdo, even _Waluigi..._ but somehow it took them _three_ versions of that image before they added Luigi. Even then he's so far in the background you likely won't be able to spot him without being able to zoom in.
I'm 100% convinved this era came from Nintendo trying their hardest to make a "Brand" out of Mario. It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if they actually consulted an advertizing/ PR agency on how to archieve "greater recognizability" because it very much ticks all the boxes for a professional corporate identity design. That's why I call that period the "Corporate Mario Era". It just doesn't work for a franchise that is beloved particularly because it always tried something weird and new and I am glad they are finally abandonning this approach.
I will say that as strapped to the past as this era was, they cooked with some of the new enemy designs. Branball and Biddybud are some of my favorites.
weirdly enough, as a sonic fan, this was exactly what 2010-2018 was like. before frontiers it was just so safe, nostalgia pandering, not pushing the envelope or trying anything new, when from 1991-2009, we had sonic going to storybook worlds, and destroying gods, and these pretty in-depth stories. it’s interesting to see that paralleled with his long-time rival
They were nostalgia pandering the classic era but they themselves don’t understand the appeal of classic sonic and still don’t til this day , it’s also cuase critics and outsiders are what sega listen to and they were all “get rid of Sonics stupid friends, stupid stories , it should be sonic and eggman and colorful green hill” ,critics and sega treat sonic like he this super cute cartoon animal , when you actually look at 90s sonic in America he was like Bart Simpson , he was a cocky arrogant, cool guy , 90s Japan sonic was also treated as this cool guy but for some reason classic sonic acts like baby sonic 😂
Here before the "Oh, but at least it wasn't Sonic kissing a princess" comments. Man, STFU. I would still take that over "Sonic, help me!" We should not be using the failure of '06 to justify stagnation decades later.
We’re about the same age, but I got into Mario a bit later in third grade (around 2006), so much of the media out there in terms of toys, gummies, etc. was from the tail end of the GameCube era. The wonder and discovery of all the versions different out there games like Strikers, Advance 1, Warioland, etc. enamored me. I don’t know if I would have gotten as interested if it were the standardized NSMB era. Like even the intro to Mario Golf for the GameCube and the 90s cartoon had me so engaged in a way NSMB didn’t. I enjoyed the original on DS, but put down Wii after a very short period of time.
I actually like that he hammers one point home: The "brand safe era" of Mario only started *after* NSMB DS. That first game actually had a ton of original ideas, half of them never being revisited and the other half diluted into nothingness by its sequels.
Yeah, it didn't truly hit until NSMBW. And as hard as it is to say, I even think Galaxy 2 suffered because of it.
Yes but then we got Galaxy 1 so i think NSMBWii really started for real the Bland era.
@@batmanbud2soooo glad someone says it. Galaxy 2 is overrated and doesn't hold a candle to the atmosphere of galaxy 1.
NSMB proper really felt like a giant blend of GameCube era Mario, from the voice clips being derived from Double Dash to Petey Piranha being dragged in from Sunshine to even a bit of Melee with Bowser using stock roar sfx.
Disclaimer, I haven’t played any of the Mario Party or sports games on the GameCube so I can’t really speak on their influence on NSMB
It definitely started with New Wii
The "no unique characters" mandate for the Paper Mario series is one of the most baffling creative decisions to me. I hope TTYD Remake doing so well changes their mind about it
A lot of Paper Mario fans started disliking Miyamoto after that, which would be surprising in the alternate universe where there was either no new paper mario game after Super (maybe until the switch or it's later years), or in the one where they actually progressed Sticker Star's beta into a full game (that one was "too much like TTYD" so it was scrapped, there was a chain chomp partner :[ )
Yeah but that's part of the GameCube series he credited but there were changes made from the original.
I hope so, too.
@@mariotheundying I remember that trailer for what became Sticker Star and with it resembling TTYD my hype was high. Turns out the only semi-enjoyable Mario RPGs to come out were basically the Mario+Luigi games for over a decade. Thankfully the remake of TTYD is doing pretty excellent so hopefully we get a return to form in the coming years.
Color splash and oragami king would be good if they kept the original combat
Epic Cat Moments:
- 14:42 : Scott attempts to protect his cat from Paper Mario Sticker Star.
- 15:14 : The side of Scott's cat can be seen as it loafs besides Paper Mario Sticker Star, it seems to be very interested.
- 16:08 : Scott's cat's paw can be seen at the top, reaching out to Scott possibly.
- 17:04 : The Cat flops over, clearly shocked at Nintendo's disrespect of the Paper Mario series.
- 18:44 : The Cat, who is still flopped over, keeps trying to reach for Scott's hands.
- 19:26 : The Cat is sleeby, it is eepy,.
Subscrible to Scott's Stash for more Epic Cat Moments
I salute your efforts and dedication. o7
@@Wiblum the cat makes me laugh loll
eeby deeby
That cat is named Cobbler. Show some respect!
19:26 the cat is sleeby the cat has e-peen ?
I thought it was female.
Dot
Com
Puter
Idmouse
To
Mouse
Resuscitation
14:41 I like to think that Scott had something roughly scripted to say, saw his cat get on the table carpet, then used his infinite knowledge to create something more comedic
Wait… it’s a table carpet? I thought he was on his hands and knees on the floor 😂
@@travislooney4539he posted a picture on Twitter of a giant table covered in carpet with the caption “this is how I film the carpet scenes. I’m sorry.”
@@travislooney4539 ...b e n d over Scott...
Pretty sure Scott's Stash videos are unscripted
@@Bubbabyte99 "roughly scripted".
They mean Scott had some bulletpoint ideas what to say.
I'll never forget the Iwata Asks about Sticker Star, where they both say that Super Paper Mario's reception on Club Nintendo caused them to lean away from story, and how miyamoto asked them to keep the character designs "from the classic mario games". Both of which turned the game that was basically looking to be a return to ttyd into what we got today. Ive definitely mellowed out but teen me was absolutely furious lmao.
That was always so weird to me because no other series has changed its entire identity because of poor reception on Club Nintendo, like why is Paper Mario the only one that did that?
@@Sylamp Super deserved that reception too and that advice is actually pretty good: the TTYD designs were largely from "Classic Mario games" with some additional design elements. Supers enemies and characters were literally arbitrary squares most of the time. It's entirely on the director of the game for messing up the designs and honestly I blame super more than anything for the downfall of Paper Mario.
If we got a "Paper Mario 3" on the Wii's launch instead we'd probably be on our 4th or 5th TTYD style game.
@@uponeric36 ok, I don't really care if Super deserved that reception or not, my question is why was Paper Mario the only series that completely changed it's identity because of results of a Club Nintendo survey, most people who were doing them didn't care about giving geniune feedback and just wanted free gold coins to redeem for rewards so they were just picking the top options to get through the them quicker, so I'm sure that the Super Paper Mario survey wasn't the only one that had a "99% of people hated this part of the game" result, yet Paper Mario is the only series where based on that survey they decided to throw out everything that made that series good and it just doesn't make any sense to me
@@uponeric36Absolutely not. Super still had interesting conceptional ideas with execution that was a lot better than you're trying to give it credit for. Infact, I don't really see how super is relevant when we're talking about Sticker Star and how they settled on that.
If super received flack on the characters, writing, and gameplay then that's up to the team in the next game to address this going forward which means Super isn't really at fault here.
The only thing you could really blame Super here was that it was the first step on dropping the traditional gameplay opening up leeway for gameplay that deviates from what was introduced for the first few paper Marios.
Anyways, Super kicks ass and it was a pretty good time than people give it credit for which is bizarre to me considering sticker star is right there. Lots of unique characters and writing that's still some of the best in the series by far.
And after all, if we were to start playing the blame game we'd be pointing fingers at TTYD for introducing elements that would makes its way into Super. Which doesn't seem really fair to the development of TTYD or Super now does it?
@@SylampIt's one of two things, either Paper Mario fans were overwhelmingly vocal and dedicated to letting Nintendo know they despised the direction they went with (just like that guy from earlier) or Nintendo is just trying to simplify their reasoning to one element even though there's a lot of thought that went into this change.
Because if you look back, in some old interviews I believe Miyamoto did not like elements from paper Mario such as Bowser's characterization. There's also beta footage for sticker star that has original looking designs from older games such as one of the moles you fight. I don't really think they'd just strip away sticker star exclusively anyways I'm pretty sure this was during a time in which Miyamoto and other Nintendo people wanted to make Mario franchises "consistent and uniform."
I feel like you didn't touch on the game that was hurt by this the most: Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam. A crossover between Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario, the two flagship mario RPGs, the possibilities were endless and the imaginations of fans went wild as they thought about how it would tie those two different styles of RPG comedic storytelling. But it too was affected by the restrictions on what you could do with Mario applied to the paper mario series so no original characters or enemies, so even though it wanted to be a mix of both, it wasn't allowed to be either, and sent Alpha Dream into the remake mines till the company died.
I will never get over how PJ completely squandered what should have been the coolest crossover ever.
I mean, the developers explained that the reason many of the enemies were from either Sticker Star, the New Super Mario Bros. series, 3D Land, or 3D World was to make them highlight the juxtaposition between the normal and paper characters.
This isn’t an excuse, just the reason why Paper Jam ended up the way it did.
And I will give PJ this, they did use enemies not often seen in the M&L series (Buzzy Beetles, which to date, haven’t even appeared in a 3D Mario game), or were new at the time (Biddybud, Sandmarggh, I’m glad even Nabbit appeared, as my appreciation and love for the character has grown over the years). I wish they went further, bring in some of the more obscure 3D Land, World, and NSMB characters (ones even the people who complain about the games don’t remember) (I.e. Waddlewings, Dragoneels, Boohemoth, Kab-ombs, etc.), but people don’t seem to give games like PJ, NSMB, PM CS & OK, and 3DL the credit they at least deserve.
@heihogreenzx4704 this was beautiful to read. while I have my problems with the game I always appreciate someone able to take the time and see that there WAS care and love put into the game. But unfortunately in game design, rarely does care from the bottom lead to a great game :(
Let's not forget about the Super Star Saga remake where they changed the unique art style of the original GBA game to the basic style to line up with the rest of the series.
“Get away, you wouldn’t like this.” lol
Scott's Cat REACTS To Video It's In
appropriate reaction for paper mario sticker star
“There, that scared him off.”
and then it doesn’t leave and, I assume, demands pets or enjoy’s hearing Scott ramble on about video games. That’s a good, cute and respectable cat right there.
While people usually describe TTYD as the peak of “weird Mario”, I would actually say Super Paper Mario is the true height of the franchise doing cool, bizarre, experimental things.
I hope Nintendo remakes Super Paper Mario next
i like the places you go to, & maybe francis & blumiere, but the execution was very ehhhhh
Yeah, TTYD is my favorite, but ive seen so many people say things along the lines of "TTYD is the weirdest Mario have ever gotten!" Like.. Super is RIGHT there. Its literally the very next game and very well known for being batshit insane.
Yeah! They were dimension hopping in that game and everything, it was sick
That’s the problem. There was backlash in Japan over Suoer Paper Mario not being "Mario like" and I think that’s part of how we ended up in this situation. It made Nintendo back off and be more protective of the brand image, so to speak.
16:20 The cat must be thinking "why the hell is he getting so worked up talking alone?"
The cat thinks Scott is talking to him haha
This era of Mario is the one that i grew up in, so my feelings towards it is a really awkward mix between hating it and being really nostalgic for it.
Halt f of those games aren’t even bad at all and are overlooked
It was the time of the weird mix of quality cause on one hand you had Super Paper Mario (my personal favorite), 3d world, and Galaxy, but then you had all of the "New" series and the strange direction of Mario party. It was just a very..awkward time for Mario games. They'll all have a place in my heart despite it
@@FunniNarudyne yeah thats true. I played the NSMB games and 3D Land as a kid, didn't really have much else. I think at the time it was perfect for me but nowadays I would much rather play something else
@@gggumball what’s wrong with 3d land?
@@3dsfan2002 I don't think theres anything wrong with 3D Land, I want to revisit it soon. But it isn't a great game it's pretty much JUST a good game y'know?
I'm so glad Mario's starting to return to its roots when it comes to creative ideas in spinoffs (and to a slight extent, mainline games). Hopefully the success of SMRPG and TTYD's remakes will be the final push it needs.
You're never getting that era back.
@@Alfenium Keep malding, kiddo. The Mario Mandate is crumbling before your very eyes, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
@@AlfeniumWe just got remakes of TTYD, vs. DK and RPG. We're literally back to the Mario RPG franchise's roots this year. And "never" is a strong word.
Mario already returned to form things to the movie so it’s been about a year I’m glad Mario wonder made 2-D Mario original again it hadn’t been 17 years since in actually original Mario game that was 2d
@@leonro I think super Mario wonder is the best modern Mario game because it’s actually original and brings back some of the fun from previous 2-D Mario games
This Mario era is the equivalent of a company ‘simplifying’ its logo
And it's funny because Nintendo's generally been making a push to simplify logos lately. DK, Kirby, Pikmin, even Zelda - they've all had overhauls in the Switch era that tend to simplify certain elements, though I think the Pikmin logo change is the only one that's really a downgrade.
As someone who lived through this entire era, I’m definitely glad to see Mario actually being more weird and experimental again after a decade of the same homogeneous banality. Games like Odyssey and Wonder have honestly reinvigorated my interest in both 2D and 3D Mario, and Nintendo remaking both Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario TTYD at least shows that they acknowledge that people want that style for the Mario RPGs back. Though whether or not we get more brand new Mario RPGs like them in the future has yet to be seen, but the optimist in me hope that it’ll be the case.
And even something like mario + rabbids,luigi s mansion 3 and paper mario the origami king tried to be more different then
Really, Wonder? I honestly cannot bring myself to get it. I've played all the New Super Mario and 3D land/world games and to me Wonder looks like just another incremental installment. Like "Here's another animal power-up like the racoon/squirrel/cat". Idk maybe I need to give it a chance...
@@uroskesic6117 Mario + Rabbids is a gem and truly captures the magic earlier Mario spin off games had (like 1000 year door, Mario and Luigi, etc). Origami King was poorly received. I never finished it, wasn't terrible but wasn't amazing either. Excited to play 1000 year door remake though!
@@daily_pocket_review Tell me where did you stop playing
@@daily_pocket_review Dude do me a favor and after your done with the ttyd remake go replay origami king pls.The first chapter might seem dull at first but after that everything else get s better and better trust me
I think the declining sales from the N64 to the Gamecube scared Nintendo into being incredibly safe for like 15 years.
I think that’s a good point. And I mean, the sterilization was working, NSMBWii sold like crazy.
Super Paper Mario was the first Mario game on the Wii, and it's the weirdest, most outlandish Mario game to date. The only thing that happened was that Miyamoto didn't like that the franchise was expanding beyond the original games and specifically didn't want anything new or different. They didn't really start going for "safe" choices until Galaxy 2, but it really got bad with NSMB2 and Sticker Star.
I honestly don't remember anybody complaining about NSMB Wii when it came out. Only people being excited to see the Koopalings again...back when they weren't in every single game. It was nice having a console 2D Mario back then and now it just seems like it's getting shit on for being guilty by association since it was the first to do things a lot of people ended up getting tired of from other games biting off of it.
I remember seeing somewhere in an interview with Shigeru Miyamoto in 2017 stating that because of his experience, Koizumi no longer had to seek approval of Miyamoto for game development and are now allowed to do whatever he wishes. And the same applied to every other developer.
koizumi only works on 3D mario so in this gen he only worked on odyssey.
@@ausgod538what about Bowser’s Fury?
@@ausgod538the best Mario game in a loooong time
@@RobinsMusicSuper Mario Bros Wonder is way better and more creative. It's the best /greatest Switch game. BotW is a Wii U game.
@@tiagofernandes8389very few games are as creative as mario odyssey.
The hexed years of Nintendo: when Mario got very boring and kinda never fully recovered because of brand standardization.
Honestly this happens to a lot of franchises looking at it
Brand standardization IMO isn’t bad in it of itself, but it can have severe drawbacks if it’s adhered too for far too long or used an excuse to not think outside the box.
Wonder and the return of Super Mario RPG plus Paper Mario TTYD hopefully is the beginning of the return for experimental Mario.
@@yourself1210 yeah look at whats happening to sonic lmao
@@myriadmediamusingsit isn’t all bad but in a way, it devalues the material it uses for standardization. Super Mario Workd doesn’t feel as weird or unique anymore, despite the fact it very much is.
I also ain’t holding my breath for the end of the era. Remakes inspire little confidence they still have it.
Sonic is definitly still there. Well at least in terms of games anyway.
Honestly, I'm still amazed Mario Golf Super Rush gave the cast actual golf shirts and slacks. That's a lot of character compared to the usual using the same standard Mario outfits the characters literally always wear again.
Baby steps
It’s all about baby steps
Mario Tennis Aces also did the same thing and that game came out before Golf Rush. I wouldn't be surprised if Camelot sticks with the themed outfits from now on.
I like to think Odyssey's multiple outfits bled into the sports games.
@@bigtseman That honestly feels like the minimum they should do, lol
There was character in the outfits but it was devoid of character everywhere else. A staple of that franchise has been the tons of unique and funny animations all the characters have, and they couldn't even manage that. Plus the game was barebones as everloving christ
New Super Mario Bros went from fun and inventive to White Bread the game
they took "the best thing since sliced bread" too seriously
And then they brought out French Bread and Chicken Noodle Soup with Super Mario Wonder.
It's like Dunkey once said, "NSMB was a fresh well-executed idea. Then they sold it to us again. Then they sold it to us again."
At least New Super Mario Bros had cool extra modes you could check out which lead to replay value. Meanwhile Mario Wonder just has story mode...
@@SuperHyperRedNo one cares about extra modes.
17:11
Boring for Scott, but not boring for the cat.
how are you so far
aw
His cat mirroring him for half of the video is the cutest thing I’ve ever seen in a Scott video. And I’ve seen bees 😭
Oh, he's serious.
I’m happy M&L dream team came out during this boring period. It was very imaginative and fun rip alpha dream
The hate for it is ridiculous
Yeah I don't think it's a coincidence that the studio died after they tossed all the originality out of the window with the Paper Mario crossover...
@@3dsfan2002 it’s one of my favourite 3ds games and maybe my favourite in the series. It’s just so fun. People might hate the final boss but I think it’s fitting for him to be a final boss for once and not be tricked like the previous games (don’t wanna spoil). Also I never heard of anyone saying it’s too much dialogue untill this video legit the entire series has so much dialogue
That’s because that game started development after bowser inside story so it just barely avoided the bland era
@@imbored1179 It's less about "dialogue" and more specifically that the game feels handhold-y with tutorials happening all the way through. It just gets to a point where you're like "alright man I'm not gonna accidentally explode the 3DS, just back off and let me enjoy the game" lol. Same thing with Pokemon SuMo. I have no idea why they lost faith in players during this time period but they definitely did and you could feel it.
Kingdom Battle is criminally underrated
A Great 60+ hour well spent
Along with Sparks of Hope
I'm a big tactics/stragegy genre fan, and those two games really surprised me. It seemed like someone at Nintendo or Ubisoft played XCOM or Fire Emblem a bit too much, and decided what they really needed was a Mario tactics game. And they actually delivered. I really didn't expect Nintendo to allow the necessary creativity with the IP. If only it wasn't tied to an Ubisoft IP that literally no one cares about.
If Nintendo had passed this project off to one of their inhouse devs and the resulting product had 0 rabbids in it, I think it would have been much more successful, even holding everything else about the game the same. The least successful part of those games was the crossover with a c-tier franchise.
@redlion145 I get that but a Great Game is a Great Game
I think the Crossover made it stand out compared to being just an in-house thing
And Sparks of Hope DLC with Rayman that didn't forget about the Character
Is it wrong for me to say the Mario + Rabbids games are my favorite Mario RPG'S?
@@jaretco6423 Nope
As someone who really connected with Koops in TTYD. I really appreciated that beginning. Lmao
We need a snippet of that intro 😂
12:40 This is one of the most infuriating aspects of the Boring Era. There are hundreds of times where they’ll introduce a new enemy or a new mechanic, but you’d only ever discover that reading the Mario Wiki rather than playing the actual game because they’re either used once or they’re tied to a tired theme. It’s like they’ve intentionally gone out of their way to hide or disguise their unique ideas so they wouldn’t stick out of the mush. I’m glad Nintendo seem to be trying the opposite approach with Mario where they’re not embarrassed to get weird while freshening up what’s been familiar.
Listen, I HATE it whenever people exaggerate something in one way or another. But I think it is a genuine skill to make a Mario game boring. Mario is literally all about fun and to make a game that is devoid of any emotion is actually fucking impressive to me.
Also I saying Sticker Star is boring is still giving it too much credit. I like that game more than most people (Aka not thinking it’s a war crime), but that game is FRUSTRATING more than anything
There were amazing Mario 3ds games from my youth
Sticker Star gives off old point and click PC game nonsense sometimes. It's also my favorite Paper Mario game. I never beat Bowser because I never found the tablets of yore or whatever.
What's your opinion of Sticker stars
I actually enjoyed sticker star the same way I enjoy Kirby. Colorful and easy
@@trashtrash2169your favorite? i'm going to assume it's the only one you're played...
The Mario series having a Status Quo that it can't deviate from is, I think, antithetical to the spirit of the series which is about having surreal, cartoony fun, something out of the ordinary.
Not every Mario game needed to take place in the Mushroom Kingdom. Putting him in other locations introduced a lot of cool things that stood out.
Wonder kinda did that
@@ratedr7845every level kinda made u go "what the actual fuck" with the Wonder Flower effects
@@Regigigas_YT yh, it's cool, sadly, i don't think they'll bring it back
I liked that NSMBW brought back the Koopalings, who I thought were very cool, but then every game in that era started bringing back the Koopalings, leading to the infamous Mario Kart 8 Roster Incident of 2014
I wish more games had handled the Koopalings like M&L Superstar Saga. They're there, but not as a replacement for anything way more interesting.
They barely fleshed out the characterization of the Koopalings after returning in a long while...sure Color Splash did kinda something but they showed up like a glimpse here or there.
@@zjzr08 The only time where I felt the Koopalings were properly fleshed out as characters was in the Bowser Jr Journey mode in Bowser's Inside Story 3DS, which is a shame because very few people gave a damn about that remake and thus most never got to see it. There, they actually got quite a bit of screen time, and their relationships and interactions with Jr. and each other were genuinely interesting to me, in spite of Bowser Jr's Journey's "eh" gameplay.
@C_Arson
The writing in Jr's Journey was genuinely great.
Nsmb wii is definitely just getting guilty by association treatment. It's like calling mario 64 unoriginal because all of the 3D games are just about collecting stars when it was the first to do it. The koopalings were completely gone for over a decade before Wii brought them back, and this was only the second game in this series. The later games had no reason to essentially do the EXACT same thing that Wii did, or even 3D Land. Hell, if anything they were essentially just putting out as many shitty copies of SMW as they could when Wii was already heavily based on said game.
14:41 Can we get a compilation of Scott's cat appearances please?
This is actually the first one I've seen 😅 I'll have to look for more!
@@PrixtoTNTI remember seeing a cat in his Wii Games on Nintendo Switch video
@@TheLuckyDerp Thanks
Yeah I think this is the first time we've seen the cat. Scott has two cats. Or are they the studio cats? Like I still don't know if Scott has a separate studio, or if all his videos for both channels are just filmed in his house. I'm talking about the videos with the other guys when they talk about stuff in that living room setting. The cats have appeared in another Scott's Stash video, where Scott and the other guys were talking about some subject. Can't remember the topic though. The two cats just appear, and the guys didn't even acknowledge them! It was honestly kinda bizarre
@@Chickengirl005 they've appeared in a few other stash videos. Can't remember which one, but they do pretty much what they did here: walk over the game cases and he casually shoots them away.
Its always okay to clown on Paper Mario Sticker Star.
*More* than okay, I'd say. 😂
Graphics: Charming diorama visuals
Music: Amazing jazz, saves it from obscurity
Gameplay: Mario can't use his jump or hammer command without his stickers.
Insane to believe we lived through nearly a decade of generic Mario slop until Nintendo decided to finally flip on the creativity switch in their heads and do something actually interesting with entries like odyssey or wonder .
Shame gameplay suffered in the process.
@@timotheatae odyssey has the best gameplay of all of them wdym
@@timotheataeOdyssey is the best 3d Mario, and Wonder is the best 2d Mario
Those are just as boring.
@@DoestheDogDiet-hq9mt Idk, they look pretty interesting compared everything else we’ve gotten
The more I think about the “Bland Era of Mario the more I appreciate 3D World. It’s already my second favorite game of all time, but the way it pushed for originality with its Power Ups, it’s enemies, it’s style of music, all super original and it stands out more due to when it released
3D world was a fun time
I think the difference is that the core 3D Mario team will always get a bit more creative license, plus how it’s actually in 3D, so basically 3D world feels like a greatest hits album as opposed to stuff like New Super Mario Bros feeling like cover albums.
@@BoxoSpoonsthat doesn't really explain why 3D land was so bland tho
@@jclkaytwo3D land isn't that bland to me, it just feels a bit more subdued when compared to the bombasticness of 3D world, 3D Land had this funky vibe especially with the level design and I love it
@@Soracayo I'm very nostalgic for 3D land, and I replayed it this year for the first time in many years... and honestly, the game is completely soulless. it has zero identity of its own, instead choosing to build itself exclusively off mario 3 references. it is one of the single blandest mario games, period. the game is extremely fun to play but let's not conflate that with personality.
The biggest crime of the safe era of Mario is that all the newest stuff from the most newer games barely showed up in the spinoffs. Like, the Broodals and all the unique races from Odyssey are forever trapped into that game, unlike Mario Sunshine which ended up getting a ton of love in Mario Power Tennis & Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door.
just ignoring that odyssey's version of pauline is appearing in EVERYTHING now...
@@jclkaytwoI wouldn't say a modern representation of an already existing character counts.
@meatbasedvegan48592017
@meatbasedvegan4859My guy, Odyssey came out 7 years ago
At least they give Pauline to shine after being an forgettable character.
The Switch era has been a very valiant effort to end the boring Mario phase. Odyssey absolutely smashed the stagnation of 3D Mario, and pretty much every side game at least made strides in the right direction too. I hope future generations continue that path
I grew up during this period of Mario ('06 baby), and think it's why I always preferred the Kirby series. I only had a 3DS when I was younger so seeing Kirby always adding new enemies, bosses, and copy abilities with each game while the Mario series kept on doing the same basic ideas drew me more towards the former.
You could’ve played the old Mario games tho
@@NickMario1 Younger me did not know how the e-shop worked. All I had was the physical 3DS games on store shelves.
I was like this with Sonic in addition to Kirby especially during the great Nintendo drought of 2016
Kirby is directed by the legendary Masahiro Sakurai so it's no wonder. What's interesting is he isn't employed by Nintendo - they contract him. That possibly gives Sakurai a level of freedom above other Nintendo directors especially with his bread and butter of Kirby and Smash bros.
@@uponeric36 Well, if we’re going to get technical, he hasn’t directed a Kirby game in 20 years, but I digress.
As soon as so saw sticker star in the thumbnail I knew this was gonna be good
i was more interested in the cat :3
@@Vixikitsi 15:23
Sticker Star is one of the most clear examples of a game with a serious lack of creativity on top of unrealistic expectations for the player for how it portrayed its puzzles.
By standardizing Mario they also made it genuinely sort of difficult to realize that there were even new games coming out . Unless you were really tuned into the Mario series, a lot of these games look so similar you wouldn't even realize they weren't the same game.
Boring Mario ruined Paper Mario discourse until 2024
Oh trust me it's still bad
Yeeeh😮
@@unraged6004What’s going on now?
@@kiddkd7242 same old same old. Instead of being happy many people are choosing to continue being negative. It's better than it was but those who liked sticker star, color splash and origami king have been getting shit on. I say this as someone who's favorite game in the series is ttyd. Hopefully someday it will all calm down but as it stands now the fanbase is still fairly toxic in several circles
@@unraged6004I understand people really care about these games and they're in their absolute right to be totally angry that a huge part of their identity was taken from them but I really wish a lot of them could be less negative and toxic. Well, it is what it is
When Nintendo only focused on appealing to the casual gamers, they forgot one thing:
Casual gamers don't stick to one thing, and move onto the next trend. Which left the core fans with all the bland games.
Scott's cat is so adorable. It is almost hard for me to concentrate on what he is talking about lol.
“bowser has a car” 😂
For me, Mario games, the best ones, are a sort of dream-like experience? Colourful, a little surreal, something that's nostalgic with familiar faces while not shying away from being quirky and unexpected.
Great way of putting it
There’s an old theory about Disney and Mickey. The idea is that Disney hasn’t made a big new movie starring Mickey, tends to license him out very sparingly or in novelty situations, because he’s their big icon and they’d have infinitely more to lose on him being associated with a flop then they’d even have to gain on a massive success with him in it. I think Nintendo realized this was the case with Mario too a decade ago
The death of E. Gadd and Toadsworth has always made me sad
O come on E gadd is still alive
Toadsworth is super dead tho
@@volvoman5262
Toadsworth got to show up again in the thousand Year door remake, but I hope he gets to show up again soon
@@elijahgearhart5116 you mean a remake?
He died after Dream Team and did not even appear in the movie
@@volvoman5262Yeah, the Mario movie seems to be themed all around the boring period of Mario.
@@iLoveBread260 and yet the "not boring period of Mario" still dosn't use Toadsworth, what's your point?
I would argue that 3D Land is a bit more standout with it’s musical style and level themes, love that game
surprised you didn't mention Mario & Luigi Paper Jam. What was supposed to be a crossover of two of the wackiest Mario series resulted in probably one of the "safest" games Nintendo ever put out (plus the remakes they made later on that dumbed down the unique npcs and enemies)
They crossovered the Sticker Star Paper Mario sadly.
Better than Sticker Star... Worst Mario and Luigi title in my opinion. Yes I had more fun with Dream Team hell even Origami King. But even playing hacky sack with your own balls is more fun than Sticker Star.
@@turboshazed7370 Dream Team was hella fun honestly. Even with the damn tutorials.
2:52 damn Scott got absolutely shafted here
The continuity of the GameCube games with its spin offs and other shit making it feel so connected and expansive and it was so sick
Miyamoto’s No Fun Allowed era.
Still ongoing unless proven otherwise, unfortunately. Here's hoping TTYD does great.
@Link_1129 it kicks ass
@@turboshazed7370 Oh, I know it does. I bought it, just hoping tons and tons of others did, too.
@@Link_1129
At the same time, I bought PM64 and the original TTYD back in the day, and I still had to wait 20 years for a return to form... and it's a remake.
I can't help but think they'll just do whatever afterwards :/
I thought odyssey and wonder were pretty cracked out but not much experimentation with Mario otherwise.
"You are playing the image on a mario lunchbox" lmaoo
It's funny that both Mario and Sonic both underwent a "safe era" at the roughly the same time (early 2010s or so) and exited it at roughly the same time as well (early 2020s). The contexts and contents of both are very different (Sonic's safe era has a lot more to do with Colors being the best received Sonic game in years and SEGA taking the wrong lessons to learn from it, among other things), but the similarities are there.
Cream the rabbit is so hot
@@rouge939bruh
While Colors and Generations played a part, I would argue Sega did the safe era for Sonic mainly because Sonic Boom. Boom was meant to be a separate reimagined universe, and looked to be more experimental. But when it flopped, Sega got cold feet and decided to stick to the usual suspects of Sonic like Green Hill and other references to past games. Frontiers and the Generations remaster seem to be a sendoff to that safe era and hopefully Frontiers’ followup will be fully original while the remakes and remasters fill the nostalgia quota if Sega are to keep seeking it.
@@Butwhythough881Good point.
i love how your cat sticks out in the video, it wants to be there with you but is still polite enough to not get in the middle, so cute
Only a few hours of playing the Thousand Year Door remake made me understand exactly why people were so upset when all its best aspects were gutted
To think we could have gotten like, 4 more games as interesting as that one and its prequel.
Super paper mario had a good story @@VonFirflirch
@@alchemistofsteel8099
I don't value that one as highly, unfortunately, it's still missing a lot of things I loved from the first two.
@@alchemistofsteel8099The story is great. But the gameplay? Not so much.
@@jaretco6423I remember having a lot of fun with the gameplay as well, the 2D/3D switch mechanic was pretty cool and the gp in general is a lot better than the sticker bullshit. It's a pretty underrated game that has nothing to do with paper mario's downfall imo.
I do enjoy the 2D games. As someone with onset parkinson's, 3D games are a bit much for me....but so happy I can play fun platformers. Actually played the older 2D ones lately via emulator from Wii, WIiU, 3ds :)
Good Mario games show you new ways in what it means to be a Mario game.
Bland Mario games tell you they are the only way a Mario game should be.
Therefore 3d land and world are perfect
This comment says about nothing, at least to me. I’m sorry, fellow Shy Guy pfper.
I feel sorry for NSMB, it got weighed down by NSMBW, NSMB2 and NSMBU/NSLBU/Deluxe.
It was legitimately a unique 2D Mario game with its own identity, and is one of the best mainline titles in its own right.
Regarding Sticker Star, even without story and characters and stuff, why did they have to strip the battles of any/all fun? Why did we have to strip out EXP and badges and FP???
Sticker Star could have been *acceptable* if it still kept the elements of the first 2 Paper Marios, or went completely into Super's style. Instead we got a watered down, garbage JRPG that punishes you for battling very boring battles and just wastes your time. Like it literally makes no sense. Sure it was New Souped up, but that doesn't mean the *GAMEPLAY* has to be completely stripped!
Because they wanted it to be pickup and play for people riding the train.
I mean fp wouldnt really work with the stickers, them being 1 time use was far enough
@@undercomposition That doesn't explain why the overall gameplay has to fight itself and be bad.
@@Bd-qs5bn That's my point: They should have made stickers the "badges" instead. That would have been a funny way to keep the badge system, just calling them stickers instead. There's no need for them to have completely stripped the game to this garbage.
@@Polarthief I don't know. I had fun the whole game. So something clicked with me.
I like how the cat is not affected at all by Scott talking and raising his voice
I just imagine Scott talking to his cat about random video game stuff like he does in videos all day long
See, when Mario lost his voice in Super Paper Mario and they changed the gameplay style, I didn't care because the game was still pretty good, and he was still somewhat expressive so it didn't matter.
STICKER STAR, HOWEVER, GAVE ME GINGIVITIS.
I wanted to like Super Paper Mario. But the gameplay is severely flawed.
Mario had voice lines in Super Paper Mario.
@frazercowan4030 He had far less of them compared to TTYD, I consider that game to be the start of them going like, "Well, we want this game to be really good but we also want it to be boring.. Screw it, let it be good, we'll ruin the next one!"
Even as a kid, seeing the New Super Mario Bros. renders as the general renders for Mario characters felt boring. They're so lifeless.
And they specially look wrong with the front view. Why are those actual promotional images? They look like reference renders or character sheets, which they probably are, but videogame stores used them as posters
As someone who had most of their childhood consist of the brand safe era, (very early childhood consisted of the Wii and Ds era) I have many fond memories of enjoying this era of Mario. Looking back now, I can see the many flaws of the brand safe games during this era, but I will still admit that I do enjoy these games. I am excited for this new era of creativity when it comes to the Mario franchise. Also I’m glad you enjoy Color Splash Scott! I do too!
Same here
the cat chilling on the carpet with you was so cute
I always think back to E3 2013 and the Super Mario 3D World reveal. At the time, reception was kind of mixed. Everyone agreed it would probably be a fine game, but it was so deeply underwhelming in terms of style. People were waiting for the next Galaxy moment and it just looked like ANOTHER NSMB-themed Mario game. Because NSMB Wii sold a ton of copies. So Nintendo assumed that everyone bought a Wii for NSMB when it was more like NSMB just happened to be a safe game to buy if you owned a Wii.
Months later Nintendo released a far more interesting trailer for 3D World that showcased all its unique appeal, but I think they blew their first impression when they had all cameras on them. I like to think that the middling reaction to that first trailer is what caused them to course correct.
That's why they showed New Donk City first in the Odyssey reveal trailer.
5:38
I mean, I listened to the Overworld theme for it yesterday. That's about it.
With how many times you've referenced this era in your videos it's exciting getting a full video on it
I think Mario 3D Land is really good. It's 3D, but has tight level design, not long slow exploration. Good stuff.
Scott put it well in his 3d world 3rd look vid when he said We were getting to a point where seeing Mice made us excited
14:41 😂 I love that Scott’s cat just shows up in this segment
holy shit, i heard “mario sports superstars” and thought “does he mean mario sports mix?” and no; i just completely forgot that mario sports superstars was a game that released
I’ll never forget the time when my parents offered to buy me a new 3DS game and I had a choice between Sticker Star and Animal Crossing New Leaf.
I chose Sticker Star 💀
I remember choosing Mario Tennis Open over Kid Icarus Uprising as a kid so I feel you.
You're not going to go wrong with either of those.
You heard me.
I once had a choice between a new 3DS XL and the Star Fox Zero bundle.
I chose the 3DS thank GOD, but i still can’t believe i actually had to think about that 💀
Well I’d say Super Mario Odyssey was the ultimate form of an original Mario game at its time. It was all sorts of things I didn’t associate Mario with before.
Galaxy 2 going from one of the more basic Mario games to having absolutely insane and brutal levels later on is one of the coolest things ever. Stone Cyclone, Boss Blitz, Grandmaster, the 120 green stars and The Perfect Run may reuse a ton of Galaxy 1 stuff, but they make Galaxy 2 feel SO much more like its own thing, like an evolution of the first game that’s way harder and more experimental. You have to get 60-70 stars to get to World S, but it’s so worth it. Galaxy 2 is the one truly exceptional Mario game from 2008-2017 and everyone should play it
I remember reading a little bit back that Nintendo in the last 10 years or so has been pushing "new" when it comes to the series concepts or gameplay but not characters. They won't make a new F-Zero game since there isn't anything "new" they can do with racing, etc. Plus, if a game doesn't sell well, they don't go back to the drawing board; they just scrap that franchise (Star Fox, Chibi-Robo, etc.). Nintendo likes to "hold the fun hostage" so to speak.
It’s ironic because franchise like Star Fox and Chibi-Robo got screwed because of the lack of new ideas. Star Fox Zero was just a rehash of Star Fox 64 that forced Gyro controls onto the player and the “new” Walker gameplay was a revived idea from the then scrapped Star Fox 2. Chibi-Robo Zip Lash was just a generic 2d platformer released on a handheld that already had a crap ton of superior 2d platformers.
An interesting coincidence is that the Sonic franchise also sort of went through its own kind of bland era during this same time period, dubbed the "meta" era by fans.
It's perfectly fine for Mario to be Mario. But why not let him find new friends?
Paper mario TTYD redefined mario games for me and made me enjoy the franchise, soon as mario became bland it felt so empty and boring. I don’t know who’s decision it was to change these things for paper mario but they need to be fired immediately.
It feels like the mid 2000s was a period of time where people made fun of franchises for being fun. Nintendo and Sega thought being lame was more profitable to people who think world building is LOL-worthy for any kind of cartoony franchise.
And now no one makes fun of fun games.
I like how the cat is just like, 'he keeps gesturing at this box on the ground, and I don't understand why, maybe if I stretch my hands out to it...'
Mario Sunshine is the SMB2 of the 3D Marios
A.K.A the worst ones as well.
Man the gamecube deserved better. Both the system and its legacy. The creativity and risk of the gamecube is an era I'm glad I was a kid to experience. The pushing out games real face thing maybe not I'm still mourning what Wind Waker could've been.
The Gamecube era was peak style innovation by Nintendo
3 days later: new Mario & Luigi announced with some of the best animation ever seen in a Nintendo game. True peak style innovation.
Funny you would bring this up. I was actually just thinking about this era while playing Paper Mario 2 on Switch. No more unique enemy characters, bland worlds. No more weird levels like we had in the Gameboy "Land" games.
I will never forgive Sticker Star...
Nintendo was treating Mario the way Disney treats Mickey Mouse.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Nintendo wanting core Mario to have a specific identity, and I think basing an RPG around that specific canon is interesting in it's own way. The problem was how prominently Mario's present was defined by his past. After he went to space, they just sorta stopped lifting him to new heights.
There was an old design tenant they used to have in any sequel of their games: have 50% of it be old, and 50% of it be new. Without those bits of new stuff, the lore and wonder dies.
Mario Kart used to be a poster child that did this literally with its tracks: half of the courses in a game would be new, and the other half would be returning tracks from older games in the series.
I just wish they would seperate paper mario and Mario & Luigi series and main line mario not holding them to the same standard
Paper mario and M&L’s charm IS the wackyness and fun adventure, they can Co-exist and people love both dearly.
Tldr; Keep the RPG games (PM and M&L, strictly RPG with wacky and interesting characters)
@@artsykero I think the paper mario designs work well with being a story book within the real mario's world. Like, it makes sense for a fairy tale to have unique characters and a distinct look. Similar to how there are wolves in real life, and then wolves who can talk and dress up as grandma in a fairy tale.
Fortune Street is one of only a handful of games that gives each individual Nintendo characters any personality beyond a blank slate. The interactions between Dragon Quest and Mario characters are really funny, also I love the fact that they act as if the Mii of the player is their own character. If you have a female Mii, you get Bowser pondering whether to kidnap you or "the gold standard of Peach".
this was a really heavily marketed era for mario
they wanted it to be as simple as possible to maximize profit and it really made the games feel more like a product less then a game
I love how with the cat's paws in frame it looks like Scott is having a very one-sided conversation with the cat
Its crazy that I grew up with this era of Mario and thought this was just how Mario was. I ate it up of course. But I genuinely wonder how theyre going to get out of this weird hole they dug themselves in. It's something I'm not entirely used to but I'm still interested to see where they take Mario next
11:44 - Ah yes, how could we forget... the Mario Party that totally shafted Luigi on the cover.
They had no problem throwing in _two_ Toads, 1-2 Cheep Cheeps, a Koopa Troopa, a Shy Guy,
Birdo, even _Waluigi..._ but somehow it took them _three_ versions of that image before they added Luigi.
Even then he's so far in the background you likely won't be able to spot him without being able to zoom in.
Been playing through Mario RPG and man what a weird game. The dialogue, the characters, all of it. The RPG games really just let anything go on in it.
SMRPG is almost... frustrating to revisit nowadays, in a way. Why didn't that become the standard for Mario?! x)
I'm 100% convinved this era came from Nintendo trying their hardest to make a "Brand" out of Mario. It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if they actually consulted an advertizing/ PR agency on how to archieve "greater recognizability" because it very much ticks all the boxes for a professional corporate identity design. That's why I call that period the "Corporate Mario Era". It just doesn't work for a franchise that is beloved particularly because it always tried something weird and new and I am glad they are finally abandonning this approach.
I will say that as strapped to the past as this era was, they cooked with some of the new enemy designs. Branball and Biddybud are some of my favorites.
Imagine nintendo sending you a survey asking if you would like to see unique characters show up more in mario games and you told them no.
Aww, your cat is so cute!!
I like that Scott's cats are becoming regular characters on this channel.
weirdly enough, as a sonic fan, this was exactly what 2010-2018 was like. before frontiers it was just so safe, nostalgia pandering, not pushing the envelope or trying anything new, when from 1991-2009, we had sonic going to storybook worlds, and destroying gods, and these pretty in-depth stories. it’s interesting to see that paralleled with his long-time rival
A lot of franchises in general in the 2010s just felt like they were going through a identity crisis
They were nostalgia pandering the classic era but they themselves don’t understand the appeal of classic sonic and still don’t til this day , it’s also cuase critics and outsiders are what sega listen to and they were all “get rid of Sonics stupid friends, stupid stories , it should be sonic and eggman and colorful green hill” ,critics and sega treat sonic like he this super cute cartoon animal , when you actually look at 90s sonic in America he was like Bart Simpson , he was a cocky arrogant, cool guy , 90s Japan sonic was also treated as this cool guy but for some reason classic sonic acts like baby sonic 😂
Ngl colors gets too much thrown at it. Sure the story is dumb, but the setting and art direction is exactly the kind you'd see in the "dark age"
Here before the "Oh, but at least it wasn't Sonic kissing a princess" comments. Man, STFU. I would still take that over "Sonic, help me!" We should not be using the failure of '06 to justify stagnation decades later.
@@lukebytes5366 i mean i enjoy colors’ art direction and generations as a game is great, but they still have the problems i mentioned
We’re about the same age, but I got into Mario a bit later in third grade (around 2006), so much of the media out there in terms of toys, gummies, etc. was from the tail end of the GameCube era. The wonder and discovery of all the versions different out there games like Strikers, Advance 1, Warioland, etc. enamored me. I don’t know if I would have gotten as interested if it were the standardized NSMB era.
Like even the intro to Mario Golf for the GameCube and the 90s cartoon had me so engaged in a way NSMB didn’t. I enjoyed the original on DS, but put down Wii after a very short period of time.
Scott has been on 🔥 lately…
But I’m here for the 🐈⬛