The lore videos about the Faro Plague hit different over the last year with the rise of generative AI in the real world. Especially after the last couple weeks with OpenAI firing their CEO and eventually bringing him back with a new board, with the dispute allegedly being over AI safety/acceleration/commercialism concerns.
That's what makes Horizon's lore so fascinating. We are technically not far away from the possibility of developing something that will ultimately kill us. The swarm actually acts more like an animal and is not a killer AI. They simply do what they were built for - but no longer for a country or a corporation. I therefore hope the software glitch remains a glitch, a coincidence and not something that was deliberately caused (Vast Silver?). On the other hand, it is an AI that allows the world to blossom again and makes new lives possible.
@@MindspectrumI'm going to be so mad if they say it was caused on purpose. The whole reason why the story works so well is BECAUSE it was just a simple glitch.
@@TheFirstCurse1 Absolutely! I'm afraid they'll do it for dramaturgical reasons and the clues are already there. Unfortunately, it's always like that with other science fiction stories. First it looks like a coincidence and suddenly it's the secret plan of the evil killer AI. I sincerely hope that the authors don't take this typical route here and leave it at a simple technical error.
@@Mindspectrum They already went somewhat down that path of demonizing Ted Faro in Forbidden West. He went from an arrogant idiot who accidentally caused the apocalypse and went insane from doing so to some stereotypical super evil villain. At least that's how I felt while playing through "Faro's Tomb". I liked the revelation at the end, and I guess his actions in that bunker could be explained by him going insane as well, but I don't want them to continue down this path of making him into just some one-note villain. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I LOVED how all of this was caused by arrogance, greed, a simple glitch. I don't want it to end up like every other story where some super villain did the glitch or that Ted Faro wanted to take over the world or something.
@@TheFirstCurse1 I don't think Ted knowingly triggered the glitch either. But the subtle reference to Vast Silver could mean that this first Super AI, which had to be held captive and potentially escaped, turned out to be the source of the glitch. To “take revenge” on humanity. I fear that they might establish that as the solution. Ted Faro is the classic eccentric billionaire who thinks he knows everything, can do everything and is allowed to do everything. Certainly inspired by living people. It's understandable that he didn't want to go down in history as the creator of the Apocalypse. But perhaps he really believed that posterity should start all over again. Without the previous knowledge, without the previous burden. I think they should have left the image of Ted as it was drawn in Zero Dawn. Although I found the mission in Thebes exciting, they could have left out two things from my point of view. The statue of himself and that he also tried to become immortal in order to lead the “children”, the new humanity. That was just too much, too constructed. Just let him go mad and be done with it. Btw. I think the mutation of Ted was drawn as a failed counterpoint to the Zenith. Where I have the biggest difficulty with immortality in itself. Zero Dawn was something tangible, something that could potentially happen in 40 years. The Zenith may have had clever minds, but they must have developed the technology quite early on in their journey. That's too much fiction and not enough science for me. The Zenith are also drawn very stereotypically. I would have liked clones much better. Then Nemesis might originally have acted as a medium for transferring memories. I would have liked something like that better. Zero Dawn was simply closer to reality overall.
Well, that's a new side of Ted Faro catastrophic decisions. I always thought that at the moment they discovered the glitch it was already too late. But his will to not be seen in a bad manner and to maintain the public image of his "peacekeeper" robots was stronger than saving humanity. A great video again.
This demonstrates the dangers of making anything "unhackable" Hard to hack by unauthorized personnel,yet. But any competent person will always leave a way to get in,just in-case anything goes wrong. Computer code can be corrupted relatively easily.
I'm sorry, how did you miss that? In ZD when we visited FARO headquarters and Ted's office there were at least two, if not more, data points that brought up the Hart-Timor glitch and the lawsuits. Another one described Ted's response and orders to cover it up.
@@forrestvanhook4586 I found everything you said, but i never made the link between the time it took for Faro to finally ask Elizabeth for help and the fact that was just enough for the renegade robots to become an unstoppable plague. I think it was because of General Herres when he said "By the time the Glitch was noticed, it was already too late." I guess he said it this way because Sobek didn't inform him of all what happened in her talk with Faro.
@@fearmaker1 That was part of the threat she made to Ted. Sign off on ZD and pay for it or I (Elizabet) will tell the world what really happened and your part in it.
Yeah I forgot about that to be honest. I wish that they didn't write it like that. I would have loved if nobody thought that it was an issue, and a total mistake ended up dooming Humanity.
There was never gonna be victory for the people against the swarm. The replication ability of the machines alone would make that pretty much impossible. Sure you can take down 50 machines but if 100 take their place its just a losing battle regardless
@@albe8479What do you think? The Corruptors and Deathbringers would bring back supplies. It also took over other AI used for mining and other resource gathering purposes. With every country it took over it had an entire land filled with metals and other valuable materials. It's not a plot hole at all. It's something so simple that they didn't feel the need to explain it.
Another great video. For me it is the most intriging Apocalypse! I don't know if the tv-series is going to cover these events, but I hope we''ll get someday from Gueriella a Killzone like shoter for Enduring Victory. Just imagine the story! Beeing a member of the 9.MRB for example. First some encounters in south east Asia with a few bots. Then progressivly larger swarms in several other missions/theaters of war. In the middle east, europe and finaly on US soil and the final collapse of the Wichita salient. First prepairing defesives, training civil brigades and than the actual combat and inevitable retreat. With a mission sucess score of how much time you bought. During that seeing more and more the collapse and destruction of global society. And the protagonists and her/his family and friends progress from hope and resolve to despair. Maybe in the final mission meeting Elisabet or Harris or another Alpha and learn by chance the real purpuse of Zero Dawn... Ah, so much potential.
As always, an excellent analysis and this part of the story is one of the most exciting in the series. The inevitable ending without hope or even a chance. The units aren't invincible, it's just the inexhaustible numbers.. The only thing I'm missing at the moment is at what point did the humans realize what was happening? That it's not a simple confrontation, but an incident of global dimension. General Herres is obviously commanding forces all over the world in Enduring Victory, not just the US, but where are the heads of state of the countries? I also can't imagine that the US was the only one trying to stop the swarm or work on a solution. Also, Elysium can't have been the only bunker (apart from Thebes and Gaia Prime) where people took refuge. It would therefore be extremely exciting to see what happened on the rest of the planet and hey, it's a European development team, I want to see something from Europe in part 3 or at least find out what happened to us.
I have 3 suggestions for a new video, discussing hypotheticals. (spoilers for Forbidden West) 1. What will the truth do to the tribes? Aloy may have thought that all the data she collected would never been seen by anyone else but in Forbiden West, that has proven false. Varl seemed resolute to let the rest of the Nora know what he had learned. And with Aloy's friends going out to get help fighting Nemesis from their tribes, it's hard to imagine how they could do that without explaining everything. And the truth should come out, if only to make it known to all that they owe everything to Sobek, Zero Dawn and the soldiers of Enduring Victory. But what would this do to them? A lot of people seem to think that losing your faith is one of the worst things that could happen to you. I find it difficult to imagine the religions of the 31st century surviving. How would the Carja react to learning the immortal, all-mighty Sun is going to die and is one of billions in our galaxy alone? Or that the Spire they revere is a communication tower built by an AI? The Banuk's religion is built on the story of Banuki, the idea of machine spirits and the Blue Light. Could any of these beliefs continue knowing the origin of the machines? The Nora would be the worst hit. Their entire culture is built on their myth of how the Old Ones died, they way they think of themselves and their place in the world. How could their founding myth survive learning what the "Metal Devil" really is? How could they see the holos from inside their Sacred Mountain and not realize their religion grew out of their ancestors conversing with a multi-servitor? And what would all this crisis of faith mean for these people? 2. What would the truth do to the economy and traditions? Presumably Hephaestus is going to be absorbed by Gaia in Horizon 3, my guess is right at the end of the game just before Nemesis arrives. But what then? I imagine Aloy and her friends introducing the tribes to Gaia and explaining the reason the machines exist. Earth's ecosystem still depends on them, would Gaia accept people all over the world continuing to hunt them? Would the tribes be willing to anyway? But simply stopping machine hunting would wreck their economy and way of life. Fresh machine parts would stop flowing in, hunters and merchants would be put out of work and even metal shards, the currency of the world, might collapse. And many traditions, rites of passage and, in some cases, the choosing of leaderships and important positions like braves or marshals depends on hunting machines. 3. Ted Faro caused the glitch. We never really heard exactly what the glitch that caused the Hartz-Timor swarm to go rouge in the first place was. And I've always wondered about Sobek's words in the datapoint Record: 3 Nov 2064. "Now your choice is what I tell them. Sign, and I'll tell them the wealthiest corporation on Earth has guaranteed the funds necessary to build Zero Dawn, exactly as I've designed it. Or don't sign - and I will make sure they and everyone else on this planet knows the real cause of the glitch." The real cause of the glitch? Is she talking about Ted's decision not to include a backdoor in the Chariot line, that she's going to tell them the glitch also deleted a backdoor, limiting Ted's culpability? Or did she find out that it was ted who directly caused the glitch in the first place? Let's discuss the idea that Ted caused the glitch but his intention was not to cause the swarm to go rouge. Possibly he sabotaged his own line to sell his next blockbuster, a kind of planned obsolescence.
@@RandomSideQuest Thank you my friend. Keep the videos coming. They're all we have till the next game. And I'm dead serious about the comment that I had once left you previously if you ever throw together an audiobook of a collaboration of all of this that you have done over the series you must let me know because I will be the first person in line to purchase it
One big plot-hole that never does seem to get addressed is why they didn't turn their other swarms on it. The plague would have had no specific advantage over other Chariot line machines.
Before reaching critical mass. Sure. However Ted Faro tried to bury it instead. It was definitely containable in the beginning if Faro took immediate decisive action the moment he realized they got completely locked out. The Chariot line encryption protocols are unbreakable for all intents and purposes - it works BOTH ways. Competitive products are useless, because they'll just get hacked, but a working swarm or two could have easily dealt with the defective one in the beginning stages of the Plague - but that would be a legal and PR nightmare. He would need to take the bots away from whoever he leased them out to in order to toss them at the defective swarm and that would be hard to keep a lid on. So instead, Ted decided try and reassert control discretely and keep things hush-hush anyway he could think of - all the while copyright striking every piece of evidence that one of his swarms went apeshit and taking everyone who blew a whistle on it to court for an indeterminate amount of time - possibly weeks. By the time he swallowed his pride and reached out looking for solutions - the growth curve of the defective swarm numbers was exponential and trying to stop it by force was like trying to put out a wildfire by pissing on it. By the time it reached critical mass; it wouldn't work as the Scarab (and most of the Chariot line) can slave other automated war machines to the Faro Swarm/Plague.
As far as I'm aware the bots could "slave" other swarms to their network, hence why there's so many different swarms. The original swarm met another and took it, then continued until every Faro bot was under its control.
@@theaureliasys6362 If one swarm can take control of another then the whole premise of the story falls apart. The same method could be used by humans to shut down the whole swarm.
Profit. His bots had excellent security so they wouldn't be taken over, could build more on-site meaning no need to ship new bots to the location, and the backup power supply (bio-consumption) means the bots never run out of power. I'm sure there had been previous situations where those problems had caused battles to be lost, then Ted Faro shows how his bots would never suffer from those problems.
There’s actually an audio log in the ZD facility under Sunfall where a former Faro designer says something to the effect of “why didn’t we pay attention to the past century and a half of sci fi?” The irony was not lost on them.
I’m so glad you pointed out the loss of institutional warfare knowledge Enduring Victory faced! I’m in a college flight training program and it’s really put the personnel issues Enduring Victory faced front and center. There’s no way you train enough skilled aircrew in fifteen months, and when you consider the timeline it takes to train competent ground troops, it’s a brilliant wrinkle Guerilla factored in, fully justified by the lore and state of the 21st century world they created. Even with an accelerated program, training enough maintainers and ordnance handlers, and the lack of leadership that would know how to employ such a force even if it could have been built in time was just far beyond anyone’s capabilities with the way automation wiped out that legacy knowledge base.
2 new ideas for videos: 1, Discuss human need by the terraforming system. Gaia was created to restore the biosphere and empowered to do it without any outside help. She was projected to have done this in about 300 years, which is backed up by the record of Brood 1's release. Yet by the time Horizon Zero Dawn begins, it has been almost 900 years and it still seems the job isn't done. Gaia's machines are still working away and all evidence points to the biosphere still depending on them. Why is this? It's been mentioned that the new generation of humans were to take over the system from Gaia. What if there was something about humans that made them the final piece to the terraforming system? What if they could do something with the system that Gaia couldn't? Like the world was a stone arch, she could only build 90% of it and humans were the only ones who could put in the keystone? 2, how will knowledge be dispersed among the tribes? With a copy of Apollo recovered from the Odyssey, it seems that one day soon humanity will receive the knowledge and culture that was denied to them. But how will this be done? My personal guess is that after Aloy has managed to introduce then to Gaia and she has gained control of the machines, she will build the tribes each a new learning lyceum and begin educating them. But the original plan seems to have been to establish humanity as one united tribe all over the world. Now there are many with various levels of aggression and prone to warring with each other. How could Gaia give them knowledge without risking higher levels of warfare? How could she withhold this knowledge from them allowing them to suffer and die from curable illnesses? How could this be done fairly between tribes? And I'm just thinking of the tribes Aloy has made contact with, how does Gaia go about introducing herself and this knowledge to the rest of the world? The list of problems and implications is long and Gaia was never given a subfunction in diplomacy or politics.
Probably would have the same dread as Oppenheimer, using a weapon of mass death and genocide for the greater good, even though it has the capacity to annihilate the human race
Why would they??? They'd all be sad, depressed, angry, and spiteful over it. Using the same army that destroyed all life on the planet wouldn't be a good thing in any way, shape, or form. It's been shown time and time again that the Chariot line of machines are feared by the tribes, including Aloy and Sylens who fully understand them. No one would ever be happy to use them. Even Walter Londra didn't like it, but he saw them as a means to an end before he left for good.
So, if the Chariot line were both unhackable but able to hack all other machines... and the goal was to buy time, why not release opposing plagues in sacrificial regions? They would arguably be bigger threats than the humans, and could eventually match production?
I’m curious that after having contact with zenith tech will give an upgraded appearance to Hephaestus’ new machines Also I do still wonder what the cause of the glitch was that Lis was able to hold over teds head that ultimately pushed him to funding zero dawn And I do hope we get to Learn what it was
Yes!! I still wonder about that! Sad that our "encounter" with Ted didn't reveal that truth. But then he certainly wouldn't be forthcoming. I'm also very curious about how Sylens _twice_ suggested that they could build their own Hephaestus now that they have the Apollo database. (He says so while Aloy is approaching the Zenith Base - where she hangs and makes her way around a rock overhang, and then again at the conclusion of the game back at the base.) I also still believe Sylens will be the final boss battle in H3, so I'm also wondering if he builds his own Hephaestus to battle with Aloy's. Lots of speculation potential! (I also hope they finish the TV show and use the TV Sylens to replace the game Sylens for H3... My personal feeling is that it's disrespectful and sad if they use AI to continue that character, especially given the actor strikes.)
@@terryzitnak6947 what about Lis' forceful comment, "[if you don't do as I say] I'll tell General Herres and the other chiefs what the _real_ source of the glitch was!" "Jesus, Lis, you don't have to threaten me. I'll sign." Also: Lis: "it can't be contained!" Ted: "you know what I mean!" Lis: "you mean the truth" meaning while the truth of the real reason behind the glitch was contained. Ted took ownership that his company caused the glitch. So it wasn't that simple. There must be more to it. Also, Ted didn't delete the Apollo database to prevent humanity from harming itself again - Lis specifically made sure Apollo would prevent that from happening. Ted deleted it to protect _himself_ from the future learning his place in the glitch. And I think it's deeper than just that "Faro robots caused it." I think....he was trying to take over the world. And I think that will be revealed in the Apollo database in the next game. And I think...maybe Sylens will take the reigns of that ultimate power... (Bonus tip: Remember, this isn't reality. It's a constructed narrative. Think like the writers, not the characters.)
@@kikijewell2967 I’m hoping vast silver shows up in some capacity maybe even to help or maybe we use what’s left of it to build a new Hephaestus Bcs it feels like the old one will be destroyed figuring horizon3 big boss
I just finished Burning Shores and the FIRST thing I did was look up your content so I can watch EVERY single one of your videos. I adored your HZD/FW videos. Can't wait to watch all of these! I also joined as a member!
How did you feel about Burning Shores? The base game for me was a 9/10 and is my 6th favorite game, but Burning Shores was like a 6/10. I was so disappointed with it.
You know one horizon comic book id love to see created was one following the lives and gradual deaths of a squad of civilians trained as emergency soldiers throughout the duration of operation enduring victory. It would start with them all hopeful in the operation but slowly losing faith in the operation as more of their squad mates fall one by one with each engagement. The first to die could be the one that knew all along who had the clearest idea of what enduring victory/zero dawn truely where but nobody believes them. It'll take to the end of their journey with the last of their unit alive to realize this before they are ultimately consumed by the fero plague buying the last few minutes for ZD's completion with their lives
Not watched vid yet but of course we could have. The Chariots were unhackable - it works BOTH ways, toss a swarm or two at the defective one the moment you realize you got completely locked out of it. It becomes a contest of firepower, and at least in the beginning we've an edge there. Wipe the plague out decisively before it even becomes a plague proper, do a mass recall on the Chariot line afterwards and refit them with hardcoded developer access - crisis averted. Faro trying to avoid a PR snafu and freaking copyright striking every single piece of evidence and taking people to court for blowing the whistle on it, for weeks, that one of his "Peacekeeper Forces" went completely apeshit in in southeast Asian archipelagos allowing their pop. growth curve to become exponential and reach runaway numbers before he decided to act decisively was the straw that broke the camels back.
I have some thoughts about Horizon. Shortened: HZD = Horizon Zero Dawn HFW = Horizon Forbidden West HCOTM = Horizon Call Of The Mountain 1. In HZD and HFW, the story is mainly in the US, in specific areas. When the third game comes, wouldn't it be cool if other countries would also be a part of the game. Now I'm not saying Aloy would travel around, but maybe Gaia reconnects with the rest of the planet and discovers there are more tribes (of course) and that some of them also found functionel Focus devices. And that Aloy could talk to them. I don't know about how to approche this thought, but If you have thoughts about how, maybe that could in a future video? 2. About possible HZD-remake(not remaster): What I would hope for is: - The climb system from HFW - Undersea explorations(like HFW)(We defently need bigger lakes and access to the some of the sea) - The storage system - New weapons - More ancient places with alot of loot and stories - The map is somewhat bigger - An expansion to the map. For example The Claim(is the name correct?) and something new either by the Nora land or to the west of Meridian - Better quests(I am not saying the ones that exists is bad, but maybe improvements) - New quests: For example connecting HCOTM in to the game. Give Aloy access to those areas in the way HZD is being played What do people think? Regards MrBear95
There's no human presence outside of North America. The reason ZD was located in USA, was because it was on the literal opposite side of the planet from where the Swarm radiated out from, giving them the most time to work with before the weaponized roombas inevitably descend on them from every direction to vacuum them up, and even then - they got it running pretty much at the last moment. The datapoints explicitly show that beyond the shores of North America, the most they could do was hit and run raids to gather up as much genetic material from the local flora and fauna for ZD before the area inevitably becomes a warzone. There was no time to build cradle network anywhere but USA, and even there - they were cutting it close.
@@TheKain202 there are Eluthias ALL OVER the world. Eluthia 1 is actually in China. So yes there IS human tribes in other countries and continents. Just like there are Cauldrons for Hephaestus which they built the underground facilities WHILE developing Zero Dawn and GAIA and her subordinate functions.
Exactly! It really bothers me, when some people claim, that Horizon has a plot hole, because Aloy "can stop an apocalypse with a bow and arrow" and the modern humans couldnt. When the Fero plague destroyed the world, humans were battaling a constantly reproducing swarm of robots. Its explicitly said that when Faro contacted Elizabeth, it already was to late to do anything, because the swarm was already reproducing at a huge rate. The robots strength was never the problem, because if we really look at them, then they're not that strong to beat. The humans were able to destroy many of them, but they were not losing because they couldnt destroy them, but because they basically got overrun. What was the key point was their numbers. Aloy was only fighting already existing robots. Robots that were burried and rotting for centuries, which had limited access to ammunition and resources. And crucially: not producing new ones! Of corse they were easier to beat than the swarm back in the days.
Great presentation. Playing HFW for the first time right now. It's the first game I've ever played where I really wanted to understand what's happening with the story and the lore. They did such a good job with this game. The side quests seem meaningful if you look past simple XP rewards and skill points. They're not simple fetch quests like we commonly see in open world RPG's. The background and lore built into these games also draws you in because there's something inherently realistic or plausible about it. The question of AI and its ramification on humanity and the world is a subject of discussion today. I don't get that same connection with other fantasy RPG's like Elden Ring or Final Fantasy. This game really taps into a "plausible" future scenario of our planet and that idea draws me into it.
II wish you a wonderful time with the games. How I wish I could just experience it again - without the knowledge, of course. The story is just so exciting and fascinating!
could they not use other chariot machines or were all of them currupted ? Also could the not make upgraded chariot machines that have nanotech to atach the swprm ?
I like how simplistic you made this look. It was dissected very well, especially for those of us who didn't bother assembling all data points to any single events
I have another idea for a video, Concrete Beach Party. Not the most important story in the world of Horizon but one that I find both tragic and inspiring. A powerful reminder of the power of imagination, enjoyment and camaraderie in the face of uncertainty and loss.
I would like to know why Gaia didn't immediately start scraping the faro machines as soon as they were deactivated then no one would have to worry about people or something waking them back up
Maybe Hades uses the Faro machines in case Gaia failed to create a stable world. Gaia also has the deactivation code for the Faro machines so they were not a threat
i would love to see the board meeting. we would like the robots to sustain themselves through bio mass, and make them unhackable. you just know one guy in the meeting was like, that's really dumb.
I mean they could have shut down any faro robots that weren’t affected by the glitch. Well the reason aloy was able to defeat something like the Horus were at their weakest and old. Not new and fresh.
Man. After helldivers. This would be a cool online game, imo. Imagine an mmo type shooter where you have tp fight off endless hords snd the goal is to last as long as possible. Then the world will repeat like once a year.
I think the way real to defeat the Faro Plague would have been with something similar to the Legion from Eighty-Six. However to create something like that it would have violated so many laws and pushed well passed the morals people had at that time especially if they were to create Black Sheep and Shepherd units.
@@Bitter765 They haven’t yet the light novel is still on going. I’ve only watched the anime and haven’t started reading the light novel so if there is something beyond then I don’t know it.
@@addisonwelsh That’s an extreme oversimplification. Several things happened to get to where the Legion is at the start of Eighty-Six that wouldn’t happen in the world of Horizon. Truthfully I went with the most feasible option for the world of Horizon but realistically I can only think of one that way built for the exact purpose of fighting something like the Faro Pledge and that’s the 72 Gundams of Iron Blood Orphans. The mobile armors of the Post Disaster timeline aren’t much different than a Horus and with the pilot playing such an integral part to the Gundam’s operation it can’t be hacked. However this would still violate many laws in that era and push well beyond their morals.
@@eatonu And by the time you built those 72 miracle weapons with tech unknown at the time, you have a few hundred Horus and several million Khopesh and Scarab. The problem isn't that the Chariot line wouldn't be defeated. We have plenty of examples in the game where Horus units and entire subswarms were destroyed or decimated by the MRB or by the navy. The problem is that it simply built more than could ever be stopped
I love your videos. Do you think Guerrilla Games will fill in the gaps with Cyan, Vast Silver, and the capturing of Hephaestus. Given that Gaia can break the rest of Zenith code while wrapping up the capturing of the other three subordinate functions, Artemis, Eleuthia, and Apollo. Also, do you think Guerrilla games will give us a Zenith uniform and weaponry equipment for game three. Finally, because there was a back up of Gaia do you think it would be safe to assume there is also a backup of Hades given the event he was damaged and the biosphere failed to meet the specified requirements to sustained life. Therefore, having Hades step in to rest earth again.
I think the third game will wrap up a lot, but I'd be surprised if another iteration of HADES comes back for the 3rd game. Think that chapter is closed for now.
It's still a tomb. It wasn't meant to be sustainable. Merely have enough supplies stockpiled to allow the staff to live out the rest of their days in peace, but nowhere near enough to last until the planet is in livable condition again. Still, it would be a neat place to explore.
Why nobody in the 21st Century didn't used cryosleep as mean of survival until the Earth is terraformed back to a point where life would allowed to flourish once again?
I love the game and I love your channel but I honestly still don't buy it. Scientists say that 100 nukes would *start* to cause environmental issues that would affect non-nuked countries. They say 1,000 nukes unleashed by the US could kill maybe 150k Americans from global environmental damage. That's nothing. It's already HZD lore that nukes weren't totally neutralized by the swarm. They did detonate. So frankly I hope Guerilla never tell us how many Horuses were around when Elisabet talked to Herres. Because frankly if the number is low then I don't buy the story. 1 nuke per Horus should do the job. Humanity could absolutely survive a nuclear winter. Guerilla should have straight up said the Horus can shoot down missiles, full stop. I'm starting to really, really doubt Sobeck's moral high ground on this issue. It's starting to seem to me that she convinced everyone to go all in on ZD when perhaps full nuclear attack might have worked. I feel like Lis chose ZD because it's clean and impressive and she gets to play god... or create a goddess. And make the world based on her beliefs. The alternative... full nuclear attack might have had every government break down. Might have bottlenecked humanity greatly. It would have been chaos. It would have been miserable. But I think that's preferable to Sobeck sacrificing every single human to do it her way, a way maximally ordered rather than chaotic. Why does she get to choose? The problem in the first place was that individual rich and powerful people got to roll the dice with the fate of humanity. Aloy is on track to do it a better way, especially when she refused to sacrifice the Tenakth. I hope it becomes more obvious that Sobeck's solution was also messed up and Aloy should strive to be better than Sobeck was.
One more point: Sylens' attempt to sacrifice a whole army for the success of his secret plan is a smaller version of what Sobeck did. Aloy unambiguously thought that was wrong. So much so that she sabotaged it in favor a more clever solution.
"Scientists say that 100 nukes would start to cause environmental issues that would affect non-nuked countries. They say 1,000 nukes unleashed by the US could kill maybe 150k Americans from global environmental damage. " climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/IndiaPakistanBullAtomSci.pdf - this is a study of possible consequences of India vs Pakistani nuclear exchange -> it focuses almost solely on the aspect of the cooling of the Earth that would last several years and would cause global breakdown of food supply. I seriously doubt that the number of casualties would stand at 150 K. In 2022 US had around 580 K homeless people - they would be the first to die in any harsher winter + I dont really believe in American's solidarity to help them - or help these who are not homeless but barely cope. Prices of food would be astronomical and it would not be available for everyone. This is just India and Pakistan - in case of US vs Russia the estimates are far worse -> the graphs show them as comparison to India - Pakistani conflict. The study does not look at damage to ozone layer (that would decimate fish stocks) from such event or at result of nuclear fallout that would make many areas simply inhabitable for survivors.
You do recall that earth was already recovering from a major climate catastrophe that killed over billion people, right? Combine that with how the swarm had already been running wild for an unknown period of time, causing more damage to an ecosystem that had barely begun to recover, and throwing suns at the swarm looks a lot less enticing.
An Enduring Victory game could be so damn good. Imagine an action packed story where you’re constantly out numbered and barely surviving and the bleak ending as the last stand for humanity
I disagree. When there’s plot points that have happened in the past it’s better to hear about them in the present but not see the events themselves as it created intrigue and mystery. Sometimes seeing things like this ruins these elements.
I would love if the show being produced actually started out before Zero Day and through the lens of Elizabeth. Maybe the first half of the first season. We would both get to see Enduring Victory and the Plague in action while also avoiding an exposition dump in the form of flashbacks or data points (It works in the game as you slowly understand what happened to the world but idk, I have a feeling that on TV the "plot revelation" wouldn't be as impactful...might be just me). So the main plot of the show would just be Aloy's fight against Hades and not the background story
The Faro plauge could have been defeated at every stage with 12512 nuclear weapons that humanity have also instead wasting resources on project zero dawn humanity could make military equipment and create specialised weapons to combat the machines
They tried nukes but determined they were just speeding out the destruction of the biosphere by using them. The Swarm's most destructive feature was consuming the biosphere as it replicated.
@@johno1544 they tried like 5 Nukes only to slowed down the plague. They could easily use their nuclear weapons do complete destroy the Faro plauge and about the biosphere I think it is a small price to pay similar things have happened in the past and humans still survived They could also instead of wasting resources on zeros dawn create bunkers for the people to come out after the nuclear winter
The plauge is a serial killer and all serial killers want to be caught and they are leaving one important they could cross the pacific by under the sea because the pressure would crush them
I like that they really didin't answer why nukes did not work. When data entries were going to explain it, it went "data corrupted" or did not go any deeper. This is a good way to write that out. Like in other stories you don't need to explain how an FTL drive works, because it is not what the characters know or need to know. Because when you think of it. Horuses built new bots and are slow and big moving targets. You see a horus, you lob a nuke, no more horus. No more horus, no more new bots. Rince and repeat. Yeah, that also would've catastrophic to the biosphere but still a better option than total annihilation.
Probably tricky to nuke a swarm that is crawling all over the ocean floor, though. That's one of the problems of the Faro Plague : It started not in the middle of a desert, but on an archipelago with one of the richest biosphere of the world. Just perfect for replication AND concealment.
@@marcbazot2740 aircraft dropped torpedos are a thing though so with the right angle it should’ve been possible. Had they treated the plague similar to a wildfire it likely could’ve been beaten. If you look at how wildfires are fought, you’ll see that they actively spread fire to act as a backburn to get rid of fuel in the fires path. By using other swarms to clear biomass in a rough perimeter you start to starve the FP of one of the key components being energy/fuel. Other swarms wouldn’t be hackable either so combined with enough “dumb” ordinance the old ones should’ve been able to put up a massive fight with a higher chance of winning. You don’t necessarily need to focus on corruptors and deathbringers with ordinance drops, just focus solely on Horus models to start and then mop up the rest later
I still think that at the time the glitch was detected, the swarm would have been small enough that a nuclear strike would have done little damage to the world at large. But I think there is one simple answer to my and everyone else's objections... The story has to happen.
@@EccentricGentelman We don’t actually know how big the swarm was. You also have to keep in mind that nuclear strikes are the kind of things that tend to cause a lot of international outrage. They’d have to spend a lot of time convincing the rest of the world’s leaders that the strike was necessary. Time that the swarm, which had supposedly already reached critical mass, could use to spread.
@@addisonwelsh Swarm is a bit of a misnomer. They way it works, is you lease a Horus from FAS, pay a monthly fee for it, and pay extra to have it print Scarabs and Khopesh for you to do the actual fighting. It literally runs on a microtransaction model lmao - as if the Chariot line couldn't have been more cancer lol. What happened, was that the Horus leased out to Hartz-Timor glitched out and started printing like crazy and defended itself when they tried to forcibly stop it when commands stopped working. It was definitely containable in the beginning if Faro took immediate decisive action the moment he realized they got completely locked out. The Chariot line encryption protocols are unbreakable for all intents and purposes - it works BOTH ways. Competitive products are useless, because they'll just get hacked, but a working swarm or two could have easily dealt with the defective one in the beginning stages of the Plague - but that would be a legal and PR nightmare. He would need to take the bots away from whoever he leased them out to in order to toss them at the defective swarm and that would be hard to keep a lid on. So instead, Ted decided try and reassert control discretely and keep things hush-hush anyway he could think of - all the while copyright striking every piece of evidence that one of his swarms went apeshit and taking everyone who blew a whistle on it to court for an indeterminate amount of time - possibly weeks. But the time he swallowed his pride and reached out looking for solutions - the growth curve of the defective swarm numbers was exponential and trying to stop it by force was like trying to put out a wildfire by pissing on it.
I’d love to see either a game or TV series based on what happened before Zero Day. It would be really cool to see all of that play out with our own eyes rather than cutscenes and data points from the current two Horizon games.
why fought against the swarm? just goes for the head, the horrus class that capable of producing swarn and it's factory. biomass conversion is scary yes but it's just a fuel. these robot still need to mining the material from somewhere right? they have to have production line set up to create the swarn where they're mining, where's the factory that produces swarn? if it's stationary than easy pick by tactical nuke, if it movable, even more easy because moving mean less armor for movement.
If u played the game, you'd know they are self replicating and unhackable (robots had the most advance tech of the time) nano swarms harvest every living thing for resources and the robots manufacture other bots
What about a vaccine like using the chariot line against them selfs like using chariot line machines with patch that should fix their major flaws and then mass produce those machines use the to combat against the plague and even if it didn't work the fight would continue until each side dies out but also during the events of the horizon games when the plauge was active again we would have allies from the chariot line.
That would give the earth even less time because the ally chariots would also use biomass conversation and the earth would die faster. Also the rate of replication ensured that the faro plague would win because by the time the good ones would be made, the bad ones would be too much in number to beat assuming they both had the same rate of replication as faro tech was the best of the time
I have always wondered due to the un-hackable ability of the faro robots is it fair to assume that a faro machine not hack another faro machine and if so could they have not sent faro machines in with people to help, plus if a faro machine could hack another faro machine it would of been a 50/50 if our machine or there’s one so in theory couldn’t we analysed there hacking of another faro machine and used that against them all? Not sure if I’ll get an answer but just a thought I have had that I would like to share with everyone
The problem wasn’t just that the faro bots were unhackable, but also their ability to manufacture new bots, and that they were consuming the biosphere. Sending more Faro bots against them would solve one problem, but not the other two.
That would give the earth even less time because the ally chariots would also use biomass conversation and the earth would die even faster. Also the rate of replication ensured that the faro plague would win because by the time the good ones would be made, the bad ones would be too much in number to beat assuming they both had the same rate of replication as faro tech was the best of the time
I love the lore of this series, however, I do think there were some methods that could have been deployed against the Swarm that would have severely degraded it. Assuming that 1) Only Horus units can build new Khopesh and Scarabs, 2) that no new Horus units can be made, and 3) Individual Khopesh & Scarabs can only affect self repair to their individual units; Even with Faro stalling an early eradication, precision nuclear strikes to the Horus units would have reduced the Swarm's ability to self replicate. There's also the option of kinetic weapons, such as Thors Hammer, that could have been deployed. These are highly precise orbital drops of very dense materials. They hit with the force of an atomic weapon without the radiation damage.
Horus units could also replicate. HZD lore doesn't explain how (probably several Horuses joining forces), but the General's holo shows Horuses numbers growing as well
Horus unit builds components of itself, and the Khopesh and Scarab units help assemble the new Horus units? Those limbs are able to lift a Horus unit so it can walk, those limbs could also be used to link together Horus components while the smaller bots work on the interior to connect everything.
@@bruradagast I would interpret the Herress presentation as a representation, not to literally mean the Horuses could self replicate. If they did, as the other commenter suggests, by linking up, I would submit that that would prevent a very attractive and comparatively vulnerable target for a tactical nuke.
Nukes would have done more harm than good. Especially where the environment is concerned. Not to mention the effect on the overall biosphere. It was already getting bombarded with the machines doing what they did. You add nukes on top of that and it would systematically destroy everything while the machines are all over the planet. Unless you nuked the whole planet at once then the machines ability to self replicate is still a huge threat and the primary reason the human race was wiped out in the first place
8:22 That data point will always remain the biggest plot hole. They could've shuttled as much tech, fuel and soil as possible and ten times the entire ZD staff to the dark side of the moon. Instead of investing 18 months into a single high-risk shot at cranking out a super-advanced terraforming AI, they could've lived on, formed families, had children and reclaimed Earth step by step, showing up at their 9-to-5s, five days a week, wearing Spongebob pajamas, with zero risk of something going horribly wrong and dooming life forever. There is no explanation at all, how exactly that would've been "unfeasible". They could've printed like 200 square miles of greenhouses underground or done hydroponics. They were _mining asteroids,_ bro. They were _mining asteroids._
Mining asteroids isn't anywhere at all equivalent to terraforming Luna, and building "underground greenhouses" wouldn't do anything at all. The Faro Swarm would still kill all life on the planet besides some Humans with limited supplies that would only last maybe a few decades.
My question is couldn’t they have just focused efforts of first and foremost destroying the Horus units? Instead of focusing onto the entire swarm? Only the Horus unit has the ability to manufacture and create more of the swarm units so if you take it out no more production of swarm units with albeit more ‘liberal’ use of nuclear weapons focus firing on every Horus unit there is and blowing them to smithereens all that’s left is to mop up the remaining swarm units that can no longer replicate. Yes the Biosphere would likely suffer severe damage but maybe just maybe if done at the right time and everything goes according to plan Earth could just Barely avert the Biosphere’s collapse. With a possible chance of a nuclear autumn along with a chance of afternoon fallout showers depending on where you are relative to the blast zone and if you’re downwind from it. A personal idea of mine of an alternative to Zero Dawn or a project created from scientist that knew of zero dawn but by some miracle escaped but decided to not whistleblow on Zero dawn and not give up on humanity in this era and do everything they could to create something that would protect as many of us as possible until the swarm was shut down by GAIA and her sub function Minerva. This what I like to call the AEGIS project which would essentially cloak cities that have been covered with a massive bio dome to protect it from the inevitable inhospitable conditions outside and human life could continue inside said bio domes. The dome would essentially cloak itself before the swarm got there and the entire city would go dark. From the outside and to the swarm it would look like the city had already been destroyed and stripped bare of biomass and that there was no reason to go there and to bypass it entirely or make it seem like, they’ve already gone through and picked the city clean of biomass. It would basically work how you would loop a camera except in this case an AI somewhat similar to GAIA would be in control of these protected cities that would house tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands to millions of people but the cloak would only be able to stay out of the swarms detection for about 50 years until Minerva would be able to shut down the swarm and then they would be fully and totally safe barring some cataclysmic cascade failure of systems of one of the domes and causing it to fail and everyone inside to die or the AI of the domes going rogue in its bid to fully protect the last of humanity and making them immortal somehow like the Zeniths except not by choice and probably not in the same way. (There would be multiple of these domes around the globe covering a limited number of cities and allowing refugees and the cities citizens to reside in it and the dome would then seal and cloak when the swarm began approaching the area of the city) The domes would only open back up when the AI and its systems detected that the biosphere was fully rebuilt and fully stabilized barring the AI going rogue and in an attempt to keep the remaining humans safe from harm keeps them inside the domes until they finally either break out or use a maxed out Charisma and Speech stat to talk the AI down and get her to release the surviving humans peacefully, or by force and threaten to kill her via cutting off her power source and wiping her back ups. The AI’s name is Athena by the way. But the name is very much subject to change.
Haha! I just wrote a comment about nukes and pointed out the same things. Lob a nuke, kill the horus, clean up the warrior bots. Rince and repeat. Nukes are very effective against slow or stationary targets. Yes, radiation might not effect the bots much but the force of the explosion at ground zero will not leave much from the horus left. But we wouldn't get this cool story and universe if the world would look like something out from the Fallout-series.
I'm constantly amazing at just how much detail the developers put into the datapoints for all these questions.
And yet, people hate on the game because you can choose to have Aloy kiss a girl. What a world we live in.
@@heelercsI despise Aloy and Seyka's forced and terribly developed relationship, but it wasn't because they were both women.
The lore videos about the Faro Plague hit different over the last year with the rise of generative AI in the real world. Especially after the last couple weeks with OpenAI firing their CEO and eventually bringing him back with a new board, with the dispute allegedly being over AI safety/acceleration/commercialism concerns.
That's what makes Horizon's lore so fascinating. We are technically not far away from the possibility of developing something that will ultimately kill us. The swarm actually acts more like an animal and is not a killer AI. They simply do what they were built for - but no longer for a country or a corporation. I therefore hope the software glitch remains a glitch, a coincidence and not something that was deliberately caused (Vast Silver?). On the other hand, it is an AI that allows the world to blossom again and makes new lives possible.
@@MindspectrumI'm going to be so mad if they say it was caused on purpose. The whole reason why the story works so well is BECAUSE it was just a simple glitch.
@@TheFirstCurse1 Absolutely! I'm afraid they'll do it for dramaturgical reasons and the clues are already there. Unfortunately, it's always like that with other science fiction stories. First it looks like a coincidence and suddenly it's the secret plan of the evil killer AI. I sincerely hope that the authors don't take this typical route here and leave it at a simple technical error.
@@Mindspectrum They already went somewhat down that path of demonizing Ted Faro in Forbidden West. He went from an arrogant idiot who accidentally caused the apocalypse and went insane from doing so to some stereotypical super evil villain.
At least that's how I felt while playing through "Faro's Tomb". I liked the revelation at the end, and I guess his actions in that bunker could be explained by him going insane as well, but I don't want them to continue down this path of making him into just some one-note villain.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I LOVED how all of this was caused by arrogance, greed, a simple glitch. I don't want it to end up like every other story where some super villain did the glitch or that Ted Faro wanted to take over the world or something.
@@TheFirstCurse1
I don't think Ted knowingly triggered the glitch either. But the subtle reference to Vast Silver could mean that this first Super AI, which had to be held captive and potentially escaped, turned out to be the source of the glitch. To “take revenge” on humanity. I fear that they might establish that as the solution.
Ted Faro is the classic eccentric billionaire who thinks he knows everything, can do everything and is allowed to do everything. Certainly inspired by living people. It's understandable that he didn't want to go down in history as the creator of the Apocalypse. But perhaps he really believed that posterity should start all over again. Without the previous knowledge, without the previous burden. I think they should have left the image of Ted as it was drawn in Zero Dawn. Although I found the mission in Thebes exciting, they could have left out two things from my point of view. The statue of himself and that he also tried to become immortal in order to lead the “children”, the new humanity. That was just too much, too constructed. Just let him go mad and be done with it.
Btw. I think the mutation of Ted was drawn as a failed counterpoint to the Zenith. Where I have the biggest difficulty with immortality in itself. Zero Dawn was something tangible, something that could potentially happen in 40 years. The Zenith may have had clever minds, but they must have developed the technology quite early on in their journey. That's too much fiction and not enough science for me. The Zenith are also drawn very stereotypically. I would have liked clones much better. Then Nemesis might originally have acted as a medium for transferring memories. I would have liked something like that better. Zero Dawn was simply closer to reality overall.
I’m always looking forward to your videos. Your passion and dedication for the Lore is unmatched.
Well, that's a new side of Ted Faro catastrophic decisions. I always thought that at the moment they discovered the glitch it was already too late. But his will to not be seen in a bad manner and to maintain the public image of his "peacekeeper" robots was stronger than saving humanity.
A great video again.
This demonstrates the dangers of making anything "unhackable" Hard to hack by unauthorized personnel,yet. But any competent person will always leave a way to get in,just in-case anything goes wrong. Computer code can be corrupted relatively easily.
I'm sorry, how did you miss that? In ZD when we visited FARO headquarters and Ted's office there were at least two, if not more, data points that brought up the Hart-Timor glitch and the lawsuits. Another one described Ted's response and orders to cover it up.
@@forrestvanhook4586 I found everything you said, but i never made the link between the time it took for Faro to finally ask Elizabeth for help and the fact that was just enough for the renegade robots to become an unstoppable plague.
I think it was because of General Herres when he said "By the time the Glitch was noticed, it was already too late."
I guess he said it this way because Sobek didn't inform him of all what happened in her talk with Faro.
@@fearmaker1 That was part of the threat she made to Ted. Sign off on ZD and pay for it or I (Elizabet) will tell the world what really happened and your part in it.
Yeah I forgot about that to be honest. I wish that they didn't write it like that. I would have loved if nobody thought that it was an issue, and a total mistake ended up dooming Humanity.
There was never gonna be victory for the people against the swarm. The replication ability of the machines alone would make that pretty much impossible. Sure you can take down 50 machines but if 100 take their place its just a losing battle regardless
Plus the smaller robots taking over other combat robots and robotic industries?
i'm still baffled the robots were able to build only with biomass. you don't get much metal with biomass
@@albe8479 Biomass was for fuel.
@@anon5789 yep..but where the horus kept getting materials to repair all the swarm? for me it has always been a plot hole
@@albe8479What do you think? The Corruptors and Deathbringers would bring back supplies. It also took over other AI used for mining and other resource gathering purposes. With every country it took over it had an entire land filled with metals and other valuable materials.
It's not a plot hole at all. It's something so simple that they didn't feel the need to explain it.
Random Side Quest is almost single handedly tiding over the Horizon girlies and keeping us fed in the long wait between games omg
Another great video. For me it is the most intriging Apocalypse! I don't know if the tv-series is going to cover these events, but I hope we''ll get someday from Gueriella a Killzone like shoter for Enduring Victory. Just imagine the story! Beeing a member of the 9.MRB for example. First some encounters in south east Asia with a few bots. Then progressivly larger swarms in several other missions/theaters of war. In the middle east, europe and finaly on US soil and the final collapse of the Wichita salient.
First prepairing defesives, training civil brigades and than the actual combat and inevitable retreat. With a mission sucess score of how much time you bought. During that seeing more and more the collapse and destruction of global society. And the protagonists and her/his family and friends progress from hope and resolve to despair.
Maybe in the final mission meeting Elisabet or Harris or another Alpha and learn by chance the real purpuse of Zero Dawn...
Ah, so much potential.
As always, an excellent analysis and this part of the story is one of the most exciting in the series. The inevitable ending without hope or even a chance. The units aren't invincible, it's just the inexhaustible numbers..
The only thing I'm missing at the moment is at what point did the humans realize what was happening? That it's not a simple confrontation, but an incident of global dimension. General Herres is obviously commanding forces all over the world in Enduring Victory, not just the US, but where are the heads of state of the countries? I also can't imagine that the US was the only one trying to stop the swarm or work on a solution. Also, Elysium can't have been the only bunker (apart from Thebes and Gaia Prime) where people took refuge. It would therefore be extremely exciting to see what happened on the rest of the planet and hey, it's a European development team, I want to see something from Europe in part 3 or at least find out what happened to us.
I have 3 suggestions for a new video, discussing hypotheticals. (spoilers for Forbidden West)
1. What will the truth do to the tribes?
Aloy may have thought that all the data she collected would never been seen by anyone else but in Forbiden West, that has proven false. Varl seemed resolute to let the rest of the Nora know what he had learned. And with Aloy's friends going out to get help fighting Nemesis from their tribes, it's hard to imagine how they could do that without explaining everything. And the truth should come out, if only to make it known to all that they owe everything to Sobek, Zero Dawn and the soldiers of Enduring Victory. But what would this do to them?
A lot of people seem to think that losing your faith is one of the worst things that could happen to you. I find it difficult to imagine the religions of the 31st century surviving.
How would the Carja react to learning the immortal, all-mighty Sun is going to die and is one of billions in our galaxy alone? Or that the Spire they revere is a communication tower built by an AI?
The Banuk's religion is built on the story of Banuki, the idea of machine spirits and the Blue Light.
Could any of these beliefs continue knowing the origin of the machines?
The Nora would be the worst hit. Their entire culture is built on their myth of how the Old Ones died, they way they think of themselves and their place in the world. How could their founding myth survive learning what the "Metal Devil" really is? How could they see the holos from inside their Sacred Mountain and not realize their religion grew out of their ancestors conversing with a multi-servitor?
And what would all this crisis of faith mean for these people?
2. What would the truth do to the economy and traditions?
Presumably Hephaestus is going to be absorbed by Gaia in Horizon 3, my guess is right at the end of the game just before Nemesis arrives.
But what then? I imagine Aloy and her friends introducing the tribes to Gaia and explaining the reason the machines exist. Earth's ecosystem still depends on them, would Gaia accept people all over the world continuing to hunt them? Would the tribes be willing to anyway? But simply stopping machine hunting would wreck their economy and way of life. Fresh machine parts would stop flowing in, hunters and merchants would be put out of work and even metal shards, the currency of the world, might collapse.
And many traditions, rites of passage and, in some cases, the choosing of leaderships and important positions like braves or marshals depends on hunting machines.
3. Ted Faro caused the glitch.
We never really heard exactly what the glitch that caused the Hartz-Timor swarm to go rouge in the first place was. And I've always wondered about Sobek's words in the datapoint Record: 3 Nov 2064.
"Now your choice is what I tell them. Sign, and I'll tell them the wealthiest corporation on Earth has guaranteed the funds necessary to build Zero Dawn, exactly as I've designed it. Or don't sign - and I will make sure they and everyone else on this planet knows the real cause of the glitch."
The real cause of the glitch? Is she talking about Ted's decision not to include a backdoor in the Chariot line, that she's going to tell them the glitch also deleted a backdoor, limiting Ted's culpability? Or did she find out that it was ted who directly caused the glitch in the first place? Let's discuss the idea that Ted caused the glitch but his intention was not to cause the swarm to go rouge. Possibly he sabotaged his own line to sell his next blockbuster, a kind of planned obsolescence.
It’s nice to be taken back into this universe. Thank you for adding to my understanding of the lore.
Best Borthday Gift I.could get...I Log on to TH-cam and my favorite narrator has another video up about my favorite series. 😊
Happy birthday!! 🎉🎂🎉
@@RandomSideQuest Thank you my friend. Keep the videos coming. They're all we have till the next game.
And I'm dead serious about the comment that I had once left you previously if you ever throw together an audiobook of a collaboration of all of this that you have done over the series you must let me know because I will be the first person in line to purchase it
Happy Birthday ❤😊
One big plot-hole that never does seem to get addressed is why they didn't turn their other swarms on it. The plague would have had no specific advantage over other Chariot line machines.
Before reaching critical mass. Sure. However Ted Faro tried to bury it instead.
It was definitely containable in the beginning if Faro took immediate decisive action the moment he realized they got completely locked out. The Chariot line encryption protocols are unbreakable for all intents and purposes - it works BOTH ways. Competitive products are useless, because they'll just get hacked, but a working swarm or two could have easily dealt with the defective one in the beginning stages of the Plague - but that would be a legal and PR nightmare.
He would need to take the bots away from whoever he leased them out to in order to toss them at the defective swarm and that would be hard to keep a lid on. So instead, Ted decided try and reassert control discretely and keep things hush-hush anyway he could think of - all the while copyright striking every piece of evidence that one of his swarms went apeshit and taking everyone who blew a whistle on it to court for an indeterminate amount of time - possibly weeks.
By the time he swallowed his pride and reached out looking for solutions - the growth curve of the defective swarm numbers was exponential and trying to stop it by force was like trying to put out a wildfire by pissing on it.
By the time it reached critical mass; it wouldn't work as the Scarab (and most of the Chariot line) can slave other automated war machines to the Faro Swarm/Plague.
As far as I'm aware the bots could "slave" other swarms to their network, hence why there's so many different swarms.
The original swarm met another and took it, then continued until every Faro bot was under its control.
@@brenderee4698 Yeahhh, that doesn't work. Then there's really nothing stopping humans from slaving the swarm.
And risk adding even more number to the swarm?
@@theaureliasys6362 If one swarm can take control of another then the whole premise of the story falls apart. The same method could be used by humans to shut down the whole swarm.
What was Ted Faro thinking setting these mechanical montroicies loose on the consumer market? The warning signs were right there from the beginning. 🙄
I think he's a psychopath.
Well he was an ego-maniacal narcissist
Profit. His bots had excellent security so they wouldn't be taken over, could build more on-site meaning no need to ship new bots to the location, and the backup power supply (bio-consumption) means the bots never run out of power.
I'm sure there had been previous situations where those problems had caused battles to be lost, then Ted Faro shows how his bots would never suffer from those problems.
There’s actually an audio log in the ZD facility under Sunfall where a former Faro designer says something to the effect of “why didn’t we pay attention to the past century and a half of sci fi?”
The irony was not lost on them.
Head empty, only 🤑
I’m so glad you pointed out the loss of institutional warfare knowledge Enduring Victory faced!
I’m in a college flight training program and it’s really put the personnel issues Enduring Victory faced front and center. There’s no way you train enough skilled aircrew in fifteen months, and when you consider the timeline it takes to train competent ground troops, it’s a brilliant wrinkle Guerilla factored in, fully justified by the lore and state of the 21st century world they created. Even with an accelerated program, training enough maintainers and ordnance handlers, and the lack of leadership that would know how to employ such a force even if it could have been built in time was just far beyond anyone’s capabilities with the way automation wiped out that legacy knowledge base.
i think to combat a different kind of swarm is needed. the zerg swarm.
Zerg?
from starcraft@@chielvandenberg8190
Kinda like fighting tuberculosis with cancer, lol
@@chielvandenberg8190 basically tryanids from 40K but not as OP
Is Zerg not the guy from toy story 💀
Thanks for postin’, and keep questin’. 😎
2 new ideas for videos:
1, Discuss human need by the terraforming system.
Gaia was created to restore the biosphere and empowered to do it without any outside help. She was projected to have done this in about 300 years, which is backed up by the record of Brood 1's release.
Yet by the time Horizon Zero Dawn begins, it has been almost 900 years and it still seems the job isn't done. Gaia's machines are still working away and all evidence points to the biosphere still depending on them.
Why is this?
It's been mentioned that the new generation of humans were to take over the system from Gaia. What if there was something about humans that made them the final piece to the terraforming system? What if they could do something with the system that Gaia couldn't? Like the world was a stone arch, she could only build 90% of it and humans were the only ones who could put in the keystone?
2, how will knowledge be dispersed among the tribes?
With a copy of Apollo recovered from the Odyssey, it seems that one day soon humanity will receive the knowledge and culture that was denied to them. But how will this be done?
My personal guess is that after Aloy has managed to introduce then to Gaia and she has gained control of the machines, she will build the tribes each a new learning lyceum and begin educating them.
But the original plan seems to have been to establish humanity as one united tribe all over the world. Now there are many with various levels of aggression and prone to warring with each other. How could Gaia give them knowledge without risking higher levels of warfare? How could she withhold this knowledge from them allowing them to suffer and die from curable illnesses? How could this be done fairly between tribes? And I'm just thinking of the tribes Aloy has made contact with, how does Gaia go about introducing herself and this knowledge to the rest of the world?
The list of problems and implications is long and Gaia was never given a subfunction in diplomacy or politics.
If ever Aloy and her friends were to utilize their own Chariot swarm in their fight against NEMISIS, I doubt they won't have smiles on their faces.
Probably would have the same dread as Oppenheimer, using a weapon of mass death and genocide for the greater good, even though it has the capacity to annihilate the human race
Why would they??? They'd all be sad, depressed, angry, and spiteful over it. Using the same army that destroyed all life on the planet wouldn't be a good thing in any way, shape, or form.
It's been shown time and time again that the Chariot line of machines are feared by the tribes, including Aloy and Sylens who fully understand them.
No one would ever be happy to use them. Even Walter Londra didn't like it, but he saw them as a means to an end before he left for good.
So, if the Chariot line were both unhackable but able to hack all other machines... and the goal was to buy time, why not release opposing plagues in sacrificial regions? They would arguably be bigger threats than the humans, and could eventually match production?
I’m curious that after having contact with zenith tech will give an upgraded appearance to Hephaestus’ new machines
Also
I do still wonder what the cause of the glitch was that Lis was able to hold over teds head that ultimately pushed him to funding zero dawn
And I do hope we get to Learn what it was
Yes!! I still wonder about that! Sad that our "encounter" with Ted didn't reveal that truth. But then he certainly wouldn't be forthcoming.
I'm also very curious about how Sylens _twice_ suggested that they could build their own Hephaestus now that they have the Apollo database. (He says so while Aloy is approaching the Zenith Base - where she hangs and makes her way around a rock overhang, and then again at the conclusion of the game back at the base.)
I also still believe Sylens will be the final boss battle in H3, so I'm also wondering if he builds his own Hephaestus to battle with Aloy's.
Lots of speculation potential!
(I also hope they finish the TV show and use the TV Sylens to replace the game Sylens for H3... My personal feeling is that it's disrespectful and sad if they use AI to continue that character, especially given the actor strikes.)
Oh, and Travis Tate (aka Stirling-Malkeet) plus Vast Silver and their possible collaboration ("Stirling" ≈ "Silver"??) and connection to Nemesis!
IMHO, I think the glitch was just a glitch. The whole point is that reckless greed will destroy everything, even unintentionally.
@@terryzitnak6947 what about Lis' forceful comment, "[if you don't do as I say] I'll tell General Herres and the other chiefs what the _real_ source of the glitch was!"
"Jesus, Lis, you don't have to threaten me. I'll sign."
Also:
Lis: "it can't be contained!"
Ted: "you know what I mean!"
Lis: "you mean the truth" meaning while the truth of the real reason behind the glitch was contained. Ted took ownership that his company caused the glitch. So it wasn't that simple. There must be more to it.
Also, Ted didn't delete the Apollo database to prevent humanity from harming itself again - Lis specifically made sure Apollo would prevent that from happening. Ted deleted it to protect _himself_ from the future learning his place in the glitch. And I think it's deeper than just that "Faro robots caused it."
I think....he was trying to take over the world.
And I think that will be revealed in the Apollo database in the next game.
And I think...maybe Sylens will take the reigns of that ultimate power...
(Bonus tip: Remember, this isn't reality. It's a constructed narrative. Think like the writers, not the characters.)
@@kikijewell2967 I’m hoping vast silver shows up in some capacity maybe even to help or maybe we use what’s left of it to build a new Hephaestus Bcs it feels like the old one will be destroyed figuring horizon3 big boss
Oh, THANK YOU! I had been going through "Random Side Quest" withdrawal.
...that, and being sick for a month solid. 🤒
Hope you feel better 😁
I just finished Burning Shores and the FIRST thing I did was look up your content so I can watch EVERY single one of your videos. I adored your HZD/FW videos. Can't wait to watch all of these! I also joined as a member!
Thanks for the support!
How did you feel about Burning Shores? The base game for me was a 9/10 and is my 6th favorite game, but Burning Shores was like a 6/10. I was so disappointed with it.
Always a good day when RSQ posts a video!
You know one horizon comic book id love to see created was one following the lives and gradual deaths of a squad of civilians trained as emergency soldiers throughout the duration of operation enduring victory. It would start with them all hopeful in the operation but slowly losing faith in the operation as more of their squad mates fall one by one with each engagement. The first to die could be the one that knew all along who had the clearest idea of what enduring victory/zero dawn truely where but nobody believes them. It'll take to the end of their journey with the last of their unit alive to realize this before they are ultimately consumed by the fero plague buying the last few minutes for ZD's completion with their lives
Not watched vid yet but of course we could have.
The Chariots were unhackable - it works BOTH ways, toss a swarm or two at the defective one the moment you realize you got completely locked out of it. It becomes a contest of firepower, and at least in the beginning we've an edge there. Wipe the plague out decisively before it even becomes a plague proper, do a mass recall on the Chariot line afterwards and refit them with hardcoded developer access - crisis averted.
Faro trying to avoid a PR snafu and freaking copyright striking every single piece of evidence and taking people to court for blowing the whistle on it, for weeks, that one of his "Peacekeeper Forces" went completely apeshit in in southeast Asian archipelagos allowing their pop. growth curve to become exponential and reach runaway numbers before he decided to act decisively was the straw that broke the camels back.
I have some thoughts about Horizon.
Shortened:
HZD = Horizon Zero Dawn
HFW = Horizon Forbidden West
HCOTM = Horizon Call Of The Mountain
1. In HZD and HFW, the story is mainly in the US, in specific areas. When the third game comes, wouldn't it be cool if other countries would also be a part of the game. Now I'm not saying Aloy would travel around, but maybe Gaia reconnects with the rest of the planet and discovers there are more tribes (of course) and that some of them also found functionel Focus devices. And that Aloy could talk to them.
I don't know about how to approche this thought, but If you have thoughts about how, maybe that could in a future video?
2. About possible HZD-remake(not remaster):
What I would hope for is:
- The climb system from HFW
- Undersea explorations(like HFW)(We defently need bigger lakes and access to the some of the sea)
- The storage system
- New weapons
- More ancient places with alot of loot and stories
- The map is somewhat bigger
- An expansion to the map. For example The Claim(is the name correct?) and something new either by the Nora land or to the west of Meridian
- Better quests(I am not saying the ones that exists is bad, but maybe improvements)
- New quests: For example connecting HCOTM in to the game. Give Aloy access to those areas in the way HZD is being played
What do people think?
Regards
MrBear95
There's no human presence outside of North America.
The reason ZD was located in USA, was because it was on the literal opposite side of the planet from where the Swarm radiated out from, giving them the most time to work with before the weaponized roombas inevitably descend on them from every direction to vacuum them up, and even then - they got it running pretty much at the last moment.
The datapoints explicitly show that beyond the shores of North America, the most they could do was hit and run raids to gather up as much genetic material from the local flora and fauna for ZD before the area inevitably becomes a warzone.
There was no time to build cradle network anywhere but USA, and even there - they were cutting it close.
@@TheKain202 there are Eluthias ALL OVER the world. Eluthia 1 is actually in China. So yes there IS human tribes in other countries and continents. Just like there are Cauldrons for Hephaestus which they built the underground facilities WHILE developing Zero Dawn and GAIA and her subordinate functions.
Basically, humanity got zerg rushed
I wonder how these bots will fare against the reapers?
Such a great story. Horizon Zero Dawn itself was very engaging.
I would have liked to actuallty see what Ted Faro became and see him die on screen.
Exactly! It really bothers me, when some people claim, that Horizon has a plot hole, because Aloy "can stop an apocalypse with a bow and arrow" and the modern humans couldnt.
When the Fero plague destroyed the world, humans were battaling a constantly reproducing swarm of robots. Its explicitly said that when Faro contacted Elizabeth, it already was to late to do anything, because the swarm was already reproducing at a huge rate. The robots strength was never the problem, because if we really look at them, then they're not that strong to beat. The humans were able to destroy many of them, but they were not losing because they couldnt destroy them, but because they basically got overrun. What was the key point was their numbers.
Aloy was only fighting already existing robots. Robots that were burried and rotting for centuries, which had limited access to ammunition and resources. And crucially: not producing new ones! Of corse they were easier to beat than the swarm back in the days.
Great presentation. Playing HFW for the first time right now. It's the first game I've ever played where I really wanted to understand what's happening with the story and the lore. They did such a good job with this game. The side quests seem meaningful if you look past simple XP rewards and skill points. They're not simple fetch quests like we commonly see in open world RPG's. The background and lore built into these games also draws you in because there's something inherently realistic or plausible about it. The question of AI and its ramification on humanity and the world is a subject of discussion today. I don't get that same connection with other fantasy RPG's like Elden Ring or Final Fantasy. This game really taps into a "plausible" future scenario of our planet and that idea draws me into it.
II wish you a wonderful time with the games. How I wish I could just experience it again - without the knowledge, of course. The story is just so exciting and fascinating!
Just curious can we see what ifs on here like what if the governments and military’s did survived?
could they not use other chariot machines or were all of them currupted ? Also could the not make upgraded chariot machines that have nanotech to atach the swprm ?
I like how simplistic you made this look. It was dissected very well, especially for those of us who didn't bother assembling all data points to any single events
I have another idea for a video, Concrete Beach Party. Not the most important story in the world of Horizon but one that I find both tragic and inspiring. A powerful reminder of the power of imagination, enjoyment and camaraderie in the face of uncertainty and loss.
My idea cyrosleep that way that plage will not notice you
If they could fly, then you would have humanities own Reapers from Mass Effect.
Always happy when RSQ posts!
I would like to know why Gaia didn't immediately start scraping the faro machines as soon as they were deactivated then no one would have to worry about people or something waking them back up
Maybe Hades uses the Faro machines in case Gaia failed to create a stable world. Gaia also has the deactivation code for the Faro machines so they were not a threat
i would love to see the board meeting. we would like the robots to sustain themselves through bio mass, and make them unhackable. you just know one guy in the meeting was like, that's really dumb.
great video, thanks
Another beautiful well prep & clean video by my fellow Banuk @RandomSideQuest survived & prevailed nothing else May The Blue Light guide you forever
I mean they could have shut down any faro robots that weren’t affected by the glitch.
Well the reason aloy was able to defeat something like the Horus were at their weakest and old. Not new and fresh.
Does anyone know more about those "anti-air counter measures" that Faro Swarm used? It seems to be swarm of some machines, so drones or missiles?
Man. After helldivers. This would be a cool online game, imo.
Imagine an mmo type shooter where you have tp fight off endless hords snd the goal is to last as long as possible. Then the world will repeat like once a year.
Can you make a video about the red raids?
Yes I can 👍
Just started playing HFW AGAIN! Guess I’m going to have to watch every one of your videos. AGAIN!
Faro was a damn lunatic why the hell would you make machines that can self replicate thats just crazy.
An Uphill battle against the Hartz-Timor Swarm, but now Faro Plague.
Hey, RSQ, are you alright? Is another video coming soon? Answer the second question first. 😁
Your videos are always so deep and entertaining. I love how you dive deep into this rich and emotional story line. My fav game series ❤️
Love your videos and the time and dedication you take to make them, you're the "Xletatis" of the Horizon Series.
Thanks so much 😁
I think the way real to defeat the Faro Plague would have been with something similar to the Legion from Eighty-Six. However to create something like that it would have violated so many laws and pushed well passed the morals people had at that time especially if they were to create Black Sheep and Shepherd units.
How did they defeat the legion in 86 I can’t remember?
@@Bitter765 They haven’t yet the light novel is still on going. I’ve only watched the anime and haven’t started reading the light novel so if there is something beyond then I don’t know it.
So solve one genocidal AI swarm with another?
Great plan
@@addisonwelsh That’s an extreme oversimplification. Several things happened to get to where the Legion is at the start of Eighty-Six that wouldn’t happen in the world of Horizon. Truthfully I went with the most feasible option for the world of Horizon but realistically I can only think of one that way built for the exact purpose of fighting something like the Faro Pledge and that’s the 72 Gundams of Iron Blood Orphans. The mobile armors of the Post Disaster timeline aren’t much different than a Horus and with the pilot playing such an integral part to the Gundam’s operation it can’t be hacked. However this would still violate many laws in that era and push well beyond their morals.
@@eatonu And by the time you built those 72 miracle weapons with tech unknown at the time, you have a few hundred Horus and several million Khopesh and Scarab.
The problem isn't that the Chariot line wouldn't be defeated. We have plenty of examples in the game where Horus units and entire subswarms were destroyed or decimated by the MRB or by the navy. The problem is that it simply built more than could ever be stopped
Horizon is just the paperclip apocalypse
I love your videos. Do you think Guerrilla Games will fill in the gaps with Cyan, Vast Silver, and the capturing of Hephaestus. Given that Gaia can break the rest of Zenith code while wrapping up the capturing of the other three subordinate functions, Artemis, Eleuthia, and Apollo. Also, do you think Guerrilla games will give us a Zenith uniform and weaponry equipment for game three. Finally, because there was a back up of Gaia do you think it would be safe to assume there is also a backup of Hades given the event he was damaged and the biosphere failed to meet the specified requirements to sustained life. Therefore, having Hades step in to rest earth again.
I think the third game will wrap up a lot, but I'd be surprised if another iteration of HADES comes back for the 3rd game. Think that chapter is closed for now.
The dlc gives us the only weapon they used in the game
What happened to Elysium? Wasnt this also an underground city built for the Zero Dawn staff to survive Zero Day too?
I think they have not told it. Only that Gaia lost contact with it one day.
It's still a tomb. It wasn't meant to be sustainable. Merely have enough supplies stockpiled to allow the staff to live out the rest of their days in peace, but nowhere near enough to last until the planet is in livable condition again.
Still, it would be a neat place to explore.
Why nobody in the 21st Century didn't used cryosleep as mean of survival until the Earth is terraformed back to a point where life would allowed to flourish once again?
Because they didn’t have the resources or technology to do so
Ted faro did and turned into a monster mutant.
That tech was finally perfected in Sirius star system by the far zenith
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Ted and the Zeniths didn't use Cryosleep, they used genetic therapy.
how do i activate the cutscene at 7:38
I love the game and I love your channel but I honestly still don't buy it. Scientists say that 100 nukes would *start* to cause environmental issues that would affect non-nuked countries. They say 1,000 nukes unleashed by the US could kill maybe 150k Americans from global environmental damage. That's nothing. It's already HZD lore that nukes weren't totally neutralized by the swarm. They did detonate.
So frankly I hope Guerilla never tell us how many Horuses were around when Elisabet talked to Herres. Because frankly if the number is low then I don't buy the story. 1 nuke per Horus should do the job. Humanity could absolutely survive a nuclear winter. Guerilla should have straight up said the Horus can shoot down missiles, full stop.
I'm starting to really, really doubt Sobeck's moral high ground on this issue. It's starting to seem to me that she convinced everyone to go all in on ZD when perhaps full nuclear attack might have worked. I feel like Lis chose ZD because it's clean and impressive and she gets to play god... or create a goddess. And make the world based on her beliefs.
The alternative... full nuclear attack might have had every government break down. Might have bottlenecked humanity greatly. It would have been chaos. It would have been miserable. But I think that's preferable to Sobeck sacrificing every single human to do it her way, a way maximally ordered rather than chaotic. Why does she get to choose? The problem in the first place was that individual rich and powerful people got to roll the dice with the fate of humanity. Aloy is on track to do it a better way, especially when she refused to sacrifice the Tenakth. I hope it becomes more obvious that Sobeck's solution was also messed up and Aloy should strive to be better than Sobeck was.
One more point: Sylens' attempt to sacrifice a whole army for the success of his secret plan is a smaller version of what Sobeck did. Aloy unambiguously thought that was wrong. So much so that she sabotaged it in favor a more clever solution.
"Scientists say that 100 nukes would start to cause environmental issues that would affect non-nuked countries. They say 1,000 nukes unleashed by the US could kill maybe 150k Americans from global environmental damage. "
climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/IndiaPakistanBullAtomSci.pdf - this is a study of possible consequences of India vs Pakistani nuclear exchange -> it focuses almost solely on the aspect of the cooling of the Earth that would last several years and would cause global breakdown of food supply. I seriously doubt that the number of casualties would stand at 150 K.
In 2022 US had around 580 K homeless people - they would be the first to die in any harsher winter + I dont really believe in American's solidarity to help them - or help these who are not homeless but barely cope. Prices of food would be astronomical and it would not be available for everyone.
This is just India and Pakistan - in case of US vs Russia the estimates are far worse -> the graphs show them as comparison to India - Pakistani conflict.
The study does not look at damage to ozone layer (that would decimate fish stocks) from such event or at result of nuclear fallout that would make many areas simply inhabitable for survivors.
You do recall that earth was already recovering from a major climate catastrophe that killed over billion people, right? Combine that with how the swarm had already been running wild for an unknown period of time, causing more damage to an ecosystem that had barely begun to recover, and throwing suns at the swarm looks a lot less enticing.
@@addisonwelsha complete nuclear annilatio would still ensure life's survival in 1 form or another but all biomass conversation wouldn't
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br And if the amount of nukes needed pushes the environment beyond humanities ability to repair it?
An Enduring Victory game could be so damn good. Imagine an action packed story where you’re constantly out numbered and barely surviving and the bleak ending as the last stand for humanity
I disagree. When there’s plot points that have happened in the past it’s better to hear about them in the present but not see the events themselves as it created intrigue and mystery. Sometimes seeing things like this ruins these elements.
I would love if the show being produced actually started out before Zero Day and through the lens of Elizabeth. Maybe the first half of the first season. We would both get to see Enduring Victory and the Plague in action while also avoiding an exposition dump in the form of flashbacks or data points (It works in the game as you slowly understand what happened to the world but idk, I have a feeling that on TV the "plot revelation" wouldn't be as impactful...might be just me). So the main plot of the show would just be Aloy's fight against Hades and not the background story
The Faro plauge could have been defeated at every stage with 12512 nuclear weapons that humanity have also instead wasting resources on project zero dawn humanity could make military equipment and create specialised weapons to combat the machines
They tried nukes but determined they were just speeding out the destruction of the biosphere by using them. The Swarm's most destructive feature was consuming the biosphere as it replicated.
@@johno1544 they tried like 5 Nukes only to slowed down the plague. They could easily use their nuclear weapons do complete destroy the Faro plauge and about the biosphere I think it is a small price to pay similar things have happened in the past and humans still survived They could also instead of wasting resources on zeros dawn create bunkers for the people to come out after the nuclear winter
The plauge is a serial killer and all serial killers want to be caught and they are leaving one important they could cross the pacific by under the sea because the pressure would crush them
I like that they really didin't answer why nukes did not work. When data entries were going to explain it, it went "data corrupted" or did not go any deeper.
This is a good way to write that out. Like in other stories you don't need to explain how an FTL drive works, because it is not what the characters know or need to know.
Because when you think of it. Horuses built new bots and are slow and big moving targets. You see a horus, you lob a nuke, no more horus. No more horus, no more new bots. Rince and repeat.
Yeah, that also would've catastrophic to the biosphere but still a better option than total annihilation.
Probably tricky to nuke a swarm that is crawling all over the ocean floor, though.
That's one of the problems of the Faro Plague : It started not in the middle of a desert, but on an archipelago with one of the richest biosphere of the world. Just perfect for replication AND concealment.
@@marcbazot2740 aircraft dropped torpedos are a thing though so with the right angle it should’ve been possible. Had they treated the plague similar to a wildfire it likely could’ve been beaten. If you look at how wildfires are fought, you’ll see that they actively spread fire to act as a backburn to get rid of fuel in the fires path. By using other swarms to clear biomass in a rough perimeter you start to starve the FP of one of the key components being energy/fuel. Other swarms wouldn’t be hackable either so combined with enough “dumb” ordinance the old ones should’ve been able to put up a massive fight with a higher chance of winning. You don’t necessarily need to focus on corruptors and deathbringers with ordinance drops, just focus solely on Horus models to start and then mop up the rest later
I still think that at the time the glitch was detected, the swarm would have been small enough that a nuclear strike would have done little damage to the world at large.
But I think there is one simple answer to my and everyone else's objections... The story has to happen.
The problem wasn’t when the glitch was detected. The problem was Ted covering it up for an indeterminate amount of time.
I know about that. But even at this time it seemed to be concentrated in a relatively small area. @@addisonwelsh
@@EccentricGentelman We don’t actually know how big the swarm was. You also have to keep in mind that nuclear strikes are the kind of things that tend to cause a lot of international outrage. They’d have to spend a lot of time convincing the rest of the world’s leaders that the strike was necessary.
Time that the swarm, which had supposedly already reached critical mass, could use to spread.
@@addisonwelsh Swarm is a bit of a misnomer.
They way it works, is you lease a Horus from FAS, pay a monthly fee for it, and pay extra to have it print Scarabs and Khopesh for you to do the actual fighting. It literally runs on a microtransaction model lmao - as if the Chariot line couldn't have been more cancer lol.
What happened, was that the Horus leased out to Hartz-Timor glitched out and started printing like crazy and defended itself when they tried to forcibly stop it when commands stopped working.
It was definitely containable in the beginning if Faro took immediate decisive action the moment he realized they got completely locked out. The Chariot line encryption protocols are unbreakable for all intents and purposes - it works BOTH ways. Competitive products are useless, because they'll just get hacked, but a working swarm or two could have easily dealt with the defective one in the beginning stages of the Plague - but that would be a legal and PR nightmare.
He would need to take the bots away from whoever he leased them out to in order to toss them at the defective swarm and that would be hard to keep a lid on. So instead, Ted decided try and reassert control discretely and keep things hush-hush anyway he could think of - all the while copyright striking every piece of evidence that one of his swarms went apeshit and taking everyone who blew a whistle on it to court for an indeterminate amount of time - possibly weeks.
But the time he swallowed his pride and reached out looking for solutions - the growth curve of the defective swarm numbers was exponential and trying to stop it by force was like trying to put out a wildfire by pissing on it.
@@TheKain202i love the way you write lol but this really puts into perspective how selfish faro is. tfs
I have a question. Why after zeldon was a success, did they not tell down all the feralbots? Weren't they afraid that they might still be functional?
Interesting and I'm thinking about playing through HFW again.
I’d love to see either a game or TV series based on what happened before Zero Day. It would be really cool to see all of that play out with our own eyes rather than cutscenes and data points from the current two Horizon games.
I Like your videos. why no sources sited? Thank you.
i really need the fight against nemesis, when is it coming? cant w8 anymore
I don’t even play the game but I love the lore and your channel
why fought against the swarm?
just goes for the head, the horrus class that capable of producing swarn and it's factory.
biomass conversion is scary yes but it's just a fuel.
these robot still need to mining the material from somewhere right? they have to have production line set up to create the swarn
where they're mining, where's the factory that produces swarn? if it's stationary than easy pick by tactical nuke, if it movable, even more easy because moving mean less armor for movement.
If u played the game, you'd know they are self replicating and unhackable (robots had the most advance tech of the time) nano swarms harvest every living thing for resources and the robots manufacture other bots
Also, people had forgot how to fight effectively as the robots had taken over all war before being hacked and controlled completely by the faro plague
Make a video about the red raids
What about a vaccine like using the chariot line against them selfs like using chariot line machines with patch that should fix their major flaws and then mass produce those machines use the to combat against the plague and even if it didn't work the fight would continue until each side dies out but also during the events of the horizon games when the plauge was active again we would have allies from the chariot line.
That would give the earth even less time because the ally chariots would also use biomass conversation and the earth would die faster. Also the rate of replication ensured that the faro plague would win because by the time the good ones would be made, the bad ones would be too much in number to beat assuming they both had the same rate of replication as faro tech was the best of the time
I have always wondered due to the un-hackable ability of the faro robots is it fair to assume that a faro machine not hack another faro machine and if so could they have not sent faro machines in with people to help, plus if a faro machine could hack another faro machine it would of been a 50/50 if our machine or there’s one so in theory couldn’t we analysed there hacking of another faro machine and used that against them all?
Not sure if I’ll get an answer but just a thought I have had that I would like to share with everyone
The problem wasn’t just that the faro bots were unhackable, but also their ability to manufacture new bots, and that they were consuming the biosphere.
Sending more Faro bots against them would solve one problem, but not the other two.
That would give the earth even less time because the ally chariots would also use biomass conversation and the earth would die even faster. Also the rate of replication ensured that the faro plague would win because by the time the good ones would be made, the bad ones would be too much in number to beat assuming they both had the same rate of replication as faro tech was the best of the time
I love the lore of this series, however, I do think there were some methods that could have been deployed against the Swarm that would have severely degraded it.
Assuming that 1) Only Horus units can build new Khopesh and Scarabs, 2) that no new Horus units can be made, and 3) Individual Khopesh & Scarabs can only affect self repair to their individual units;
Even with Faro stalling an early eradication, precision nuclear strikes to the Horus units would have reduced the Swarm's ability to self replicate. There's also the option of kinetic weapons, such as Thors Hammer, that could have been deployed. These are highly precise orbital drops of very dense materials. They hit with the force of an atomic weapon without the radiation damage.
Horus units could also replicate. HZD lore doesn't explain how (probably several Horuses joining forces), but the General's holo shows Horuses numbers growing as well
Horus unit builds components of itself, and the Khopesh and Scarab units help assemble the new Horus units? Those limbs are able to lift a Horus unit so it can walk, those limbs could also be used to link together Horus components while the smaller bots work on the interior to connect everything.
@@bruradagast I would interpret the Herress presentation as a representation, not to literally mean the Horuses could self replicate. If they did, as the other commenter suggests, by linking up, I would submit that that would prevent a very attractive and comparatively vulnerable target for a tactical nuke.
Nukes would have done more harm than good. Especially where the environment is concerned. Not to mention the effect on the overall biosphere. It was already getting bombarded with the machines doing what they did. You add nukes on top of that and it would systematically destroy everything while the machines are all over the planet. Unless you nuked the whole planet at once then the machines ability to self replicate is still a huge threat and the primary reason the human race was wiped out in the first place
8:22 That data point will always remain the biggest plot hole. They could've shuttled as much tech, fuel and soil as possible and ten times the entire ZD staff to the dark side of the moon. Instead of investing 18 months into a single high-risk shot at cranking out a super-advanced terraforming AI, they could've lived on, formed families, had children and reclaimed Earth step by step, showing up at their 9-to-5s, five days a week, wearing Spongebob pajamas, with zero risk of something going horribly wrong and dooming life forever. There is no explanation at all, how exactly that would've been "unfeasible". They could've printed like 200 square miles of greenhouses underground or done hydroponics. They were _mining asteroids,_ bro. They were _mining asteroids._
Mining asteroids isn't anywhere at all equivalent to terraforming Luna, and building "underground greenhouses" wouldn't do anything at all. The Faro Swarm would still kill all life on the planet besides some Humans with limited supplies that would only last maybe a few decades.
My question is couldn’t they have just focused efforts of first and foremost destroying the Horus units? Instead of focusing onto the entire swarm? Only the Horus unit has the ability to manufacture and create more of the swarm units so if you take it out no more production of swarm units with albeit more ‘liberal’ use of nuclear weapons focus firing on every Horus unit there is and blowing them to smithereens all that’s left is to mop up the remaining swarm units that can no longer replicate. Yes the Biosphere would likely suffer severe damage but maybe just maybe if done at the right time and everything goes according to plan Earth could just Barely avert the Biosphere’s collapse. With a possible chance of a nuclear autumn along with a chance of afternoon fallout showers depending on where you are relative to the blast zone and if you’re downwind from it.
A personal idea of mine of an alternative to Zero Dawn or a project created from scientist that knew of zero dawn but by some miracle escaped but decided to not whistleblow on Zero dawn and not give up on humanity in this era and do everything they could to create something that would protect as many of us as possible until the swarm was shut down by GAIA and her sub function Minerva. This what I like to call the AEGIS project which would essentially cloak cities that have been covered with a massive bio dome to protect it from the inevitable inhospitable conditions outside and human life could continue inside said bio domes. The dome would essentially cloak itself before the swarm got there and the entire city would go dark. From the outside and to the swarm it would look like the city had already been destroyed and stripped bare of biomass and that there was no reason to go there and to bypass it entirely or make it seem like, they’ve already gone through and picked the city clean of biomass. It would basically work how you would loop a camera except in this case an AI somewhat similar to GAIA would be in control of these protected cities that would house tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands to millions of people but the cloak would only be able to stay out of the swarms detection for about 50 years until Minerva would be able to shut down the swarm and then they would be fully and totally safe barring some cataclysmic cascade failure of systems of one of the domes and causing it to fail and everyone inside to die or the AI of the domes going rogue in its bid to fully protect the last of humanity and making them immortal somehow like the Zeniths except not by choice and probably not in the same way. (There would be multiple of these domes around the globe covering a limited number of cities and allowing refugees and the cities citizens to reside in it and the dome would then seal and cloak when the swarm began approaching the area of the city) The domes would only open back up when the AI and its systems detected that the biosphere was fully rebuilt and fully stabilized barring the AI going rogue and in an attempt to keep the remaining humans safe from harm keeps them inside the domes until they finally either break out or use a maxed out Charisma and Speech stat to talk the AI down and get her to release the surviving humans peacefully, or by force and threaten to kill her via cutting off her power source and wiping her back ups. The AI’s name is Athena by the way. But the name is very much subject to change.
Haha! I just wrote a comment about nukes and pointed out the same things.
Lob a nuke, kill the horus, clean up the warrior bots. Rince and repeat.
Nukes are very effective against slow or stationary targets.
Yes, radiation might not effect the bots much but the force of the explosion at ground zero will not leave much from the horus left.
But we wouldn't get this cool story and universe if the world would look like something out from the Fallout-series.