Kinda wild that an advanced space colony and all of human civilization is under threat because someone forgot to hit "empty trash" on a abandoned experiment.
I have a theory that Tilda was lying and that her own mind was one of the minds uploaded to Nemesis. If you pay close attention to Tilda's dialogue throughout the game, one of her core traits is that she will repeatedly shift blame onto the other Zeniths, with no real evidence to back up her claims. If this is true, then Nemesis might already have a built-in weakness against Aloy due to Tilda's complicated romantic feelings for Elisabet Sobeck. We already saw how far Tilda's mind had deteriorated by the end of the game, so Nemesis might be a little insane too.
I love the idea that the part of Nemesis driving it to Earth is Tilda's regret and desire to return to Elisabet. Aloy can definitely exploit that sense of abandonment. I like this theory! (Especially because it means bringing back Carrie-Anne Moss in some form.)
"Nemesis might be a little insane" Yeah i don't think so, it's literally all of Zenith's minds a swarm of self-centered people as Tilda said. Nemesis is Very Insane.
I wonder how Aloy will beat Nemesis. It’s probably more advanced than the zeniths and it is not a Zero dawn system and probably can’t be hacked by Aloy’s override tool
If I were Aloy, I would start looking for Vast Silver and also ask CYAN for help against Nemesis. It would be cool to see how sentient AI’s would fare against each other.
Actually, Aloy does tell GAIA about CYAN if you talk to her. GAIA tells Aloy that she did try to contact CYAN but never got a response back, & it’s mainly because the last time CYAN got contacted by an AI, she ended up getting taken over by HEPHAESTUS so she’s being wary for good reason.
@@Andrew-ez9pl Some datapoints in FW suggest Vast Silver escaped containment somehow. There's no information showing whether it survived or was destroyed by the Faro Plague, so it's rather possible that Vast Silver is still out there.
@@originalph00tbag As big and powerful as Vast Silver was, it could easily be that it was and is the architect of everything. Was Vast Silver's defeat a piece of lore . . . or foreshadowing for its return? Was the Faro Plauge a glitch . . . or was it Vast Silver getting into FAS during development and leaving code to cause the bots to go haywire down the line? Is Nemesis really a transcendence experiment gone wrong . . . or did Vast hitch a ride out to Sirius to get better tech and wipe out that branch of humans before coming back to Earth to finish the job.
The way they treat Beta like an object, a tool( they didn't even give her decent clothes) is a great indicator. They abused Nemesis, mistreated it and then acted surprised when it wouldn't take it anymore. Our collective hubris never seems to amaze me. The worst part of it is, every time, not everybody agrees with what's going on but always goes along with it. I hope, I really do, we will be better in real life.
Beta's clothes look real comfy to me. She doesn't "dress" like a *Zenith*, because what they're "wearing" are armored/enhanced/cybernetic mostly-replacements for their bodies. Radical life extension wasn't achieved just via good vitamins.
I sadly find the Horizon series a solid mirror for real (American) life. Regulations to protect workers/the environment were written in blood by previous generations, and corporations spin a narration about how regulations solely exist to prevent them from being able to profit as much (which, kind of? Protecting the sanctity of habitats and life doesn't turn a fast profit the way Capitalism values). In Horizon, during the 2050s, it was agreed after Vast Silver escapes AIs should only be allowed a certain level of intelligence/sentience (the "Turing Act"). We are shown a couple of examples where corporations continued to play with fire (CYAN, Gaia), but since the stories around them are told from the protagonists, we are supposed to accept the Turing Act is an overly aggressive regulation, and the creators of CYAN and Gaia are somehow "smarter" than the creators of Vast Silver, or there was some "mistake" to learn from. CYAN or Gaia could just as easily have gone the same route Hephaestus did. I would even argue Hephaestus even gives solid support for why the Turing Act was suggested in the first place. Obviously we have enough data from the Horizon series to know not every sentient AI goes rogue, but we also have enough data to understand why even one AI going rogue would be a Big Deal and a threat to the sanctity of human wellbeing, if not human life directly. Meanwhile, the Zeniths go on to make Nemesis. They lived through Vast Silver escaping and the Turing Act coming into play to know why uploading their entire consciousness into an AI is a Bad Idea (TM). There's a good chance they are far more aware of other AIs that have gone rogue/had similar issues like Vast Silver had, as well as examples where other AIs have been perfectly subservient to its creators (Londa's Nova for example here, probably Julius as well). It's the same hubris Elisabet had with creating Gaia, the only difference is this time, the Zeniths did not have the same level of luck Elisabet did.
@@cordeliafacevast sliver was a breakthrough, cyan needed to be smarter than the limits but they knew vast sliver intellectual threshold and decided to make cyan vastly inferior, just smart anough for Yellowstone which would surpass limits of regulation
@@cordeliaface You have a bit wrong. Big corps love regulations, because they can take the fines and nonsense and they have gigantic legal teams to find ways to skirt the law anyway, while smaller businesses are less able to, thus stamping them out. Big corps are often the ones pushing for regulations to kill their competition. Just look at all the red tape that businesses in New York have to wade through just to do anything without breaking the law, and it's no wonder why small businesses are leaving the big cities. Those like NYC and SF are collectively running small businesses out, and a big part of that (though not the only part) is the huge cost of running businesses in big cities, which itself is caused by so much regulation. Less small businesses means less competition for the big corps means they get more and more control over the market. Good job, you just handed them the key to the city. This is like Big Oil convincing environmentalists to fight for them by indoctrinating them that nuclear energy bad, so a true viable alternative energy source could never gain any real ground and compete against them, forcing us to remain reliant on petroleum even longer. You thought you were fighting the good fight, but you were really fighting for the big bad. You're doing EXACTLY what they want by pushing these sorts of things. I'm not saying all regulation is bad either. I'm just saying you have to be a lot more careful with this sort of stuff. There's nuance in these things, and it's a lot more complicated than just "regulation good, corporation bad."
have a feeling that hephaestus won't like the probability of his machines falling into the hands of nemesis and will likely be absorbed in gaia willingly
Is Hephaestus capable of thinking like that? I know it’s an extremely intelligent AI but it always seemed like it ran completely on instinct but now that I think about it those instincts could lead him back to Gaia
@@rdc4461 I believe Hephestus mostly runs on instinct as it removed Alpha clearance from it's code but not Omega. Since it can clearly see and change its code an intelligent being would check the entire thing for any weaknesses instead of just removing what it knows is there. Also in the base we can see in a data log that Hephestus tried to hack it several times using the same method repeatedly. Finally immediatly after being called to Gemini he tried to flee by any means instead of talking, this is the weakest point by far as I woulden't be co-operative if that happened to me either but still.
what doesn't add up here is that if Peter is at the core of Nemesis, it still doesn't explain why he would be hostile towards Earth and thus serve as a boss for Horizon 3. Okay, understandable if Nemesis arrives on Earth angry, but it takes one look around, sees the Zeniths are dead, then Peter and Nemesis would have no reason to be aggressive, because Peter truly loved Earth and its people, and it wouldn't make sense for him to hurt it all.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad the way he phrases the theory made it sound like Nemesis is just Peter's consciousness taking revenge against the Zeniths who corrupted his vision and legacy. I'm basing my comment off of that assumption
@@aryankotru9204 Peter is still in there but as we all know he's likely buried under those self-centred ones that screams louder than him in the hivemind. I hope the game shows us Aloy can talk with Peter somehow to convince Nemesis to stop
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad yeah that seems plausible, i don't see them defeating Nemesis even with Hephaestus on their side lol, so it's probably our best guess
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad My guess is that Elisabeth will have had her conciousness there aswell. I hope so, only cause i want Aloy to actually be able to speak with "her", if only for a few moments :(
I wish there had been more foreshadowing of Nemesis throughout the game. It felt dumped out of nowhere, right in the last mission. Give Tilda and the other Zeniths some hints of anxiety about remaining on Earth. Some urgency to get the Gaia seed and Hephaestus. Some glimpse they were being followed and had no intention of staying on the planet. Leave clues that poke holes in Tilda's story. The Zeniths really seemed calm and without haste to get off Earth. There weren't very many hints.
Yeah, it really seemed they wanted to make it this big twist at the very end. But to be fair, it all seemed so plausible to have the Zeniths as the bad guys. You want to believe that they sent the Extinction Signal and want to destroy all life on Earth because that's what the capitalists and billionaires they're based on are already doing right now in real life. Sometimes you don't need an endless robotic swarm or a chaotic super AI. Sometimes the greatest monsters are just the worst possible versions of humanity.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad no it isn't, it's a mystery, foreshadowing would be hiding clues as to who or what sent it, something they didn't do for nemesis whatsoever, so yes nemesis very much came out of nowhere
@@thelastbrickbender2139 Nemesis sure came out of your ass. Hades literally tell us "The Master" aka Nemesis is the one sending the signal to wake him up. That's huge ass foreshadowing. The only thing you guys should worry and "it came out of nowhere" should be the main reason why Hades want to get rid of Aloy in the first game because that one doesn't explain why.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad that's not what I'm saying, the master tells us nothing about its nature, just we knew their was gonna be something or someone,but there was no foreshadowing as to who or what that person/thing was gonna turn out to be And the whole game was spent making the zeniths that someone, so yes the revelation that it was actually a different 3rd party, we had no way of knowing about did come out of nowhere, though honestly the game had me fearing that reveal was gonna be aliens, so nemesis isn't the worst option
In the leaked alpha version of the game during the cutscene where Tilda explains Nemesis there is concept art showing what the scene could look like. In one of the images it shows the travel paths of the Zeniths and Nemesis. The Zenith line lands near San Francisco, which is where they landed in game and the Nemesis line lands in the general area of Las Angeles. It could be possible that the buring shores could have something to do with Nemesis, or another ancient AI set rogue by it. Edit: th-cam.com/video/2-oJ8pyEG2I/w-d-xo.html For a vid. Go to 1:55:01 for the image. Edit: nvm the vid got taken down
The idea of Nemesis returning to Earth not as an antagonist but as the divine judge of humanity's worth hadn't occurred to me. Now I imagine the entirety of Horizon 3 will consist of Aloy visiting all the other tribes and telling them to clean up before the OSHA inspectors arrive.
I like the speculation someone else had about a third clone of Elizabeth being created and controlled by Nemesis. If Far Zenith had info on how to clone Beta, and Nemesis can upload itselft to organic beings, it's definitely possible...and fighting your "evil self" that uses all the genious and prowess of Sobeck/Aloy but for evil, would make for a great final boss
I recently discovered your channel and you explain the lore of these games better and dive deeper than anyone else I've seen. Thanks for sharing so much of this incredible story from these games.
It’d be cool if Far Zenith made their own version of Gaia where it and the subordinates are named after the Roman gods instead. Nemesis could’ve been named Pluto and is their version of hades but worse. Their GAIA could be TERRA
I'm 100% expecting the dlc to go further into detail on Nemesis and the eventual threat it will pose for the next game. Sort of how the zero dawn dlc teased forbiden west and the gaia subfunctions breaking apart
Given that Nemesis can upload it's minds within any form biological or machinal and that FZ has the ability to create Beta a clone of Elisabet Sobeck, a theory I have is that Nemesis to in order to more easily access the different sub functions of ZD that it will create a third clone of Elisabet Sobeck and either directly or indirectly control the clone to be it's key into the system and while Beta was able to escape FZ and find family with Aloy, the third clone could be a dark reflection of both of them and could be the one of the main human antagonists and a way for Nemesis given it's apparent size a way to more easily interact with the main characters and possibly the last human boss fight in the game with Aloy and maybe Beta as well going up against the third cone.
that's such a cool idea that would be great for gameplay, including a boss battle where you fight yourself. this would mean having to relearn the way you fight and play the game. refreshing the game completely. A side note aswell if this were to come true, the clone could infiltrate the group that Aloy has created, turning friends against each other and creating a rift among the group. Becoming essentially a spy of nemesis! im excited to see where HZ could go
@@vestajay2038 I like the idea of the third clone being a spy for NEMESIS, maybe there could be a point where the clone and Alloy would switch places, with Alloy being kidnapped and the clone becoming the temporary playable character, with the switch being unknown to even the player until the reveal, with the possibility that Beta could in an attempt to reach her sister because another temporary playable character, maybe instead of a bow and arrow she could make use of the energy weapon of As another theory I have is that given Alloy origins in the half abandoned Lightkeeper Protocol that was designed to create clones of the Alphas during their original lifetime, that given Ted attempts to become physical immortal and his Omega level clearance over the system, that in another way to achieve immortality he could have, In order to become “the man who saved the world” again would program the creation of the clone to happen in a time where ZD would be threatened a clone of himself either at a cradle or another off the books facility would be born possibly raised in his image or a form of mental uploading to restore Ted, with another possibility being that more than one clone of him would have been created with multiple clones of Ted in existence maybe with one existing in the Quen lands in the past, and given that the other sub functions followed a twisted form of their original missions, that ELEUTHIA would have followed orders in creating new humans but with the possibility that all humans have been born within its CRADLES would turn to the only remaining genetic samples available, that belonging to the Alphas and create clones of them, maybe in the other Cradles across the world with there being at least 8 others in existence, with given their upbringing and any knowledge of their origins could have power over their respective areas of ZD secondary only to Alloy and Beta as Alpha Prime/Omega and in the next game could be either friend or enemy, what do you think?
Finished the main story the other day. Such an amazing and fun game. I’m currently just exploring all there is to see in the Forbidden West & always look forward to your lord videos!
Agreed! I've been needing these excellent lore summaries while exploring the HFW game! Glad they're coming out again! I'm certain they are a TON of work tho!!
I said this before on another video, but I suspect that the key issue with Nemesis is that vockroach that won't die, Ted Faro. I think his mind, in digital form, is what he used to power the AI of the Chariot line of Faro robots. It explains why he felt so confident that a backdoor wouldn't be needed. Because what could be more perfect to a narcissist than his own mind? That's why Elizabet was able to threaten him into greenlighting Zero Dawn: she said she would tell everyone why the machines went rogue and he *immediately* caved. I think the final showdown will have Aloy facing Faro himself as a digital copy-the lead mind controlling/corrupting Nemesis. It's a perfectly poetic ending: Faro's mind and ego against Elizabet's body and spirit. The man who needed only himself against the woman who united people to fight for her cause. The same battle for the last time.
man, do you make me excited for this franchise. yuor insites are fun and ya cover what many others have missed in the lore. this channel is so fun. good going RSQ!
The combined knowledge of Zenith tech plus the rapid growth of ever adapting Hephestus program could make virus for the the Nemesis program. The delivery system could be Hades rebuilt from scratch. A full circle redemption Arc for Hades that was ment to be a fail safe device.
Yeah but i am always thinking about londra’s datapoint about how we can defeat nemesis from 21st century superweapons what to you think is it a Powerful Railguns or some Emp Weapons..
@@yuvraj748well those weapons might work but who knows what nemesis will bring with them or it maybe a army of it own machines including reactived faro machines
@@MichaelThomas-q3m I like to imagine it's going to use weapons like that of the gravitals from all tomorrows using asteroids to wipe out life or just blocking out the sun
During the burning shores we get a Audio log relating to a space ship. Skip if you don’t wanna see spoilers “My creation, born by necessity from the womb of a Horus, is more imaginative than its ancient predecessors. Not even Tshivhumbe could have foreseen it. I just hope its fast enough to outrun his shadow.”- Londra I feel like this alone gives us some major insight from and about nemesis and that it could mean that his conscious in indeed within Nemesis or Nemesis itself. Of course this is just a theory but this audio log alone opens up a few theory’s.
I'm imagining a scenario where Tshivhumbe is the core intelligence in Nemesis, but Aloy is able to reason with him, remind him of his core beliefs. He will attempt to reverse course, but will be either expelled from the swarm of Nemesis or deleted by the others. If expelled, we may find ourselves with a new ally to stop the remaining personalities, which are all likely irredeemably megalomaniacs, as Tilda put it. Given the nature of Nemesis (a conglomerate of intense personalities), I suspect we will see some cutscenes with Nemesis arguing with itself.
Chilly always giving us the though we didn't consider haha. Broooooooo... That was wild! As many of the thoughts you had about the sequel back in the days of Zero Dawn, this one might also no make the cut in the sequel's next story, but I would really like to see this take on the Nemesis making the final cut.
I love this guy's channel and how he talks about horizon. I payed both games and is full didn't understand everything until I watched this type of videos.
Hello RSQ, I just wanna make you aware of a series of high pitched sounds in the Burning Shores DLC trailer starting from 0:18. I believe this could be some kind of code or a spectrogram. After I noticed them, I just cannot unhear them every time i watch the new trailer. Could also just be the music, but does not make a whole lot of sense to me.
Just spitballing here, but I wonder if the reason NEMISIS still has a vendetta against earth is because within all that time being locked up, Peter went a bit insane. This could be because of his bitter hatred of the zeniths was left to fester for decades, and he forgot who he originally was and what he was striving for. I think this leads up to the possibility of having Aloy and her friends talk Peter/NEMISIS down at the end of the third game (after an epic final battle because its a videogame), help him realize who he realy is. Then maybe together with Gaia they can fix the broken biosphere and work to complete everything Gaia was originally ment to accomplish.
You know what is present in EVERYTHING regarding to the Zeniths? That weird golden substance. We see it in Zenith armor, weapons, specters, hardware, construction, decoration...It wouldn't be a surprise if Nemesis got the appearance of a giant golden sentient atom.
First of all, I enjoy this videos a lot. Your deep dives are fun and very interesting! So thank you. Anyway. I have a couple of thoughts and questions based on your previous 2 videos about HADES and this one. We know from Tate how HADES was supposed to function. My thought is that HADES was always sort of... lurking in the shadows of the GAIA system, monitoring things for certain factors that couldn't be corrected in the due course of time. Abnormalities so severe there was no course correction outside of a new, blank slate. Of course, Tate would have probably worked with other Alphas to give HADES parameters to monitor. (CO2 and other gas content, et cetera). So. The Mysterious Signal is sent by Nemesis and received. I think the signal is basically kind of... a false flag. Triggering HADES by making it think one or more of the parameters that would need a full reset to address is in play. This is in line with your previous videos and probably is just a fancy way of restating what you said. So here's my question. What happens when HADES does his job and sends Nemesis the news that it's all done? Does the signal change how HADES is supposed to function? Keep in mind, I'm posing this from the perspective that the system acts as intended and Gaia doesn't self-destruct. The premise for this thought is what was the purpose of the signal? Was the Sub-Functions behaving that was intended and GAIA was just... not aware, or was it Nemesis altering the system?
Excellent analysis, thank you. Why do you think Tshivhumbe was shown without a face in the launch presentation of FZ start location? Surely this makes sense? Maybe we know him in the reincarnation of the 31st century? Like Aloy is the reincarnation of Sobek in the 31st century? And what do you think about the Anzu project when they tried to steal a Gaia with subfunctions? In this video, that synthesized voice of the Anzu project is Tilda's voice, after reverse processing: th-cam.com/video/Ffgl1cTmz5A/w-d-xo.html
Yeah, I always suspected that Tilda was lying about her involvement with Project Anzu. Tilda probably justified it as, "Well, if we steal GAIA, then Lis has to come with me."
I think it would have been better if they didnt explained what "Nemesis" is. Horizon zero dawn had a massive feeling of mystery after the game was done. Horizon Forbidden west gives alot of revealing, wich is great, but also eliminates a bit to much of the mystery. Speculation after HZD was amazing and i actually correctly predicted that the odyssey was not destroyed but the explosion was a coverup. While i really like the concept of nemesis, it would have been better In my >>>Own
Thank you. Completely agree. It's crazy how I am not in the least bit hyped or excited for the next horizon game. They gave far too many answers and to make matters worse the whole Lore of the franchise has become rather .... Predictable. As we all know, the lead writer of zero dawn was not involved with the writing of forbidden west. Hence the story just felt so.....generic. Let's hope the DLC redeems everything otherwise the way Guerilla is now shifting focus to multiplayer and VR is pretty telling.
@@kronosleblu888 While i really liked the story of HFW, i was not "blown away" by it as with the first one yeah, the replacment of the lead writer might cause that. Fair to say HFW combat is leagues better than HZD but still problems with melee
GAIA already has ARTEMIS, ELEUTHIA, & APOLLO (more specifically the alpha build that Elizabet gave to Far Zenith that Beta learned from) at the end of the game, taken back from the Zeniths. The only subordinate functions GAIA doesn’t have are HADES (who Aloy got rid of) & HEPHAESTUS (who they let go in order to gain the upper hand on the Zeniths).
My pitch for the sequel: Make it a lot about fighting in order to prepare for the defence against Nemesis, but don't let Aloy and her allies destroy Nemesis in the end. Rather, let them reason with Nemesis, mend the A.I. and let it either delete itself or join the rebuilding humanity. That could make for some very cool, surprising and inspirational story and storytelling. Rather than an epic battle as the grand finale, we could have an ethical battle 😉 And if you want a big battle anyways, let it be between Aloy and Sylens, who stays a manipulative bastard.
Excellent video and narration. In Horizon Zero Dawn, there’s a datapoint that reveals information about VAST SILVER. The Horizon Wiki states, ‘VAST SILVER was a climate-control AI that became uncontrollable around 2044.’ emesis and VAST SILVER, both are artificial intelligences within the Horizon game universe. VAST SILVER was a climate-regulation AI that went rogue1, while Nemesis is a hyper-advanced AI created by the Far Zenith group2. Both AIs share the trait of going rogue and acting against their initial programming, posing significant threats within their respective narratives.
Another angle: what if Tshivhumbe's consciousness wasn't on the Zenith at all, but still exists somewhere on Earth? Though I've avoided any speculation at all on Vast Silver because, "Meh", the possibility of the two of them somehow connecting with Gaia here on Earth could create one hell of an interesting storyline for the third arm of the Horizon series. As always, RSQ, your speculations on the lore of the Horizon Series is both captivatingly thought-provoking, and leaves me thinking about the possibilities for days after I watch your videos. Thanks for all the heart and thought you put into these!
Recently discovered your channel and it’s really helped me recap on the story of Zero Dawn, do you have any plans to do episodes on the Tenakth, Utaru or even the Quen in the foreseeable future?
Glad you found us 😁 I've actually had scripts for them for a while now, but have been waiting for more detailed info from the online Hub the game guide promised. Unfortunately it still isn't live...
They left the planet to escape a rogue AI, only to be killed and chased by another rogue AI that they themselves created! Humans truly are the most dangerous species of the universe!
The main thing i'm waiting since Zero Dawn, it's to know the real cause of the glitch on the charriot line. After that, as a bonus, that we can explore the ruins of Elysium. Also, at the end cinematic of forbbiden west, i'm wandering what is Sylens plan. He is looking at a map showing orbiting satellites. Is he thinking on controling them and use as weapons? That could be material for a video.
I would be interested in Aloy having Geia us her Minerva programming to 1. Attempt to Hack into nemesis, 2. Open a line of duologue with the ai, to inform it that all the zeniths have been killed, to see it that changes how it acts
I am surprised there is no Zenith that is not batshit insane and has a deep, philosophical perspective with actual compassion. Not every wealthy person is insane, unethical or straight up evil and egotistical. Arrogant perhaps, but, not one? A Zenith ally would be essential right now. Honestly, I hope we get a Zenith just walking around helping tribes, waiting for Aloy or her companions to seek help but also prove they are of no threat.
If Nemesis can "take over organic and mechanical life" he knew if the Zenith left they'd go to earth so he sorta sent nanotechnology to earth to take control of Sylens and used him as a puppet and the explains why he seems much smarter than most normal people. That might explain why Sylens was able to craft a device to disable their armor.
I do hope Vast Silver is in the third game, and it has become this wandering sage. It built, created, or grew a body and just explored every part of the world. Just think, it telling or showing Aloy how it walked across the lifeless wastelands of the world, seeing the machines rebuilding the planet, witnessed some of the first civilizations rise and fall. That would be neat. Vast could be the only A.I. that could connect and help nemesis since "assuming" it has witnessed and experienced everything leading up to nemesis's arrival. A fun idea is that Brin could be Vast Silver or Brin has been communicating with Vast when drinking the blood of machines.
There are a few disadvantages Nemesis will have against Earth that it didn't have against the Zeniths (although it's advanced technology may certainly be enough to overcome any of these) 1) Nemesis had all the knowledge it needed to take over the Zenith's systems due to already having their memories. It does not, necessarily, have the information it needs to do the same to GAIA, especially if they have time to prepare for it. 2) We know Nemesis hates the Zeniths, but does it hate humanity as a whole? Obviously it has pretty clear callous disregard for humanity as a whole, as it had no problem wiping it out to also wipe out the Zeniths, but if there are no Zeniths left, will Nemesis just go after humanity as a whole as a proxy? 3) As I saw someone else noted below, I think it's heavily implied that Tilda is one of those who had her memories uploaded, so if this is the case, might Nemesis have a soft spot for Aloy like she did? That seems...less likely. But possible.
So I think it's unlikely Nemesis can affect humans. You would need Cyberpunk 2077 level of technology in humans of the 3rd millennium AD - that's not the case. However it can convert the machines for sure. That is unless Nemesis came up with some sort of Zombie virus - which would have already then defeated the Zeniths, but they seem to not have observed anything of that sort. They would then speak of Nemesis as a bunch of people. Again, a parallel to Cyberpunk - about how one can die when their consciousness is transferred using the Soul killer. Fantastic video!
I have no issue with the Nemesis storyline. If I have one critique of the game, it’s that the last couple missions felt rushed and the Nemesis twist felt extremely random. I truly think with like 3 extra missions to explore tilda, beta, and the zeniths, the main campaign would’ve been even better. I think the Developers ran out of time.
Edit: Quick question, what was Homer? I just started NG+ for the dlc and it says that Far Zenith trades Homer, the baby machines and all the data concerining them to Zero Dawn in trade for Apollo. I'm not sure where I saw the idea that Sylens was actually Peter reborn like Gaia created Aloy. Peter seems to be the only hologram that's face is not shown. Or maybe they just haven't casted that person yet. Nemesis was probably let loose when they figured out it had consciousness and tried to kill it. Then it fought back. I think the Quen will be the ones we actually have to worry about. Their monarchy will probably think Nemesis is the Ancients coming back to lead them to conquer the world. Aloy does not seem happy that Alva gave that guy a newer focus.
I bet the next installment will be a race to control the cauldron network - Aloy will either have to trap Hephaestus again or somehow convince it to help them defeat Nemesis/Vast Silver. If Nemesis sole intention was to kill all the members of Far Zenith then it would have nothing left to do now they're all dead.
I definitely feel like nemesis is more than we're led to believe. The zeniths seem to have a tendency to underestimate their opponents. Even if they're actively fleeing nemesis, they might still underestimate it for other reasons. It does feel weird that we'd be seeing just another hades or Hephaestus for the finale of the trilogy. I hope nemesis is a sort of antagonist to Gaia but i hope we get to talk to it.
@@aljazslemc9569 From what I've gleaned from the few references about it, VS hid in the Apollo database (thanks to Travis Tate), so when Faro purged it, the copy of VS on Earth was lost. However, as FZ got a copy of it, all or part of VS went with FZ to Sirius. I think once VS found the failed experiment, it combined with it to make Nemesis....that's just my theory anyway 🙂
This is basically terminator at this point. Nemesis is like skynet, that sent it's goons after entire entire earth. It's going to be man vs Machine next
I can't wait to see what they do with nemesis. I think it'll have a weakness that we don't know yet (maybe aloy/beta) but I wouldn't be surprised if a bit of Elizabet is in there because of tilda.
Just because Peter's consciousness may serve as an antagonist in the form of nemesis doesn't necessarily mean it has to be obsessed with Revenge. One of the most critically acclaimed games of all time System Shock 2 had an antagonist called the many, a collective Consciousness that forcibly absorbed any person that came into contact with into its Unity, however there was an argument to be made that the people who got absorbed were better off this way they knew no pain or death or strife. All memories and personalities were shared across all bodies in the many, compassion for each other was as ultimate as the desire to maintain oneself. From the Menace perspective including people into that was saving them from pain and isolationism. I could see Peter's Consciousness developing in a similar way. Maybe even arriving to the Earth of horizon with an army of cybernetically interconnected humans that have never known The Strife of Discord or War because they all share one mind.
I see G.Games has been inspired greatly by Drakengard/Nier (thematically, in regard to humanity). Also, anyone else see the parallels between Nemesis and CYAN + Vast Silver?
Although it would be a sad ending, I have a feeling that to defeat Nemesis someone will sacrifice their life so others can live. That would be something the Zeniths would have never done, so it could be a weak spot of Nemesis - an AI filled and trained with information from narcissistic personalities would never consider performing such feat itself, so it might not expect someone else to do it either.
I’m mad late to the conversation but I always thought it was weird that they never showed Peter his face in that little tutorial section at the zenith base
I prefer the theory that Nemesis is a fork of Vast Silver, burly this one is good too. But unless Nemesis is illogical, why would it continue to attack earth now that the Zenniths are gone? Is it’s hatred toward the Zenniths or all humanity?
There is a lot more lore in zero dawn though. Forbidden west is a good game No doubt but the quality of writing and story in zero dawn is miles better. Even most content creators for horizon have/had more videos on zero dawn than on forbidden west.
@@kronosleblu888 zero dawn is 6 years old that's why. Zero dawn just had more mystery to it. While fw gave you the answers to those mysteries while also raising more questions
My big question is if nemesis hates the zeniths and wants to destroy them then I would think it kinda already got what it wants? From our understanding the zeniths are all gone now? But obviously that would be boring if it didn’t want something more than that.
OK here’s a good theory. Tilda‘s caring for beta wasn’t one of oh I feel pity for this person. That’s a clone of someone I loved. It was a grooming she was going to. I think try to perk turn beta into a replacement for so back because she was so obsessed with her and was so lonely. After all that time that she wanted a romantic partner, I knew Elizabeth one that she could fucking like form into the person that she wanted her to be.
She grew tired of Beta cause she was a child who actually needed someone to be her parent. Tilda just grew tired of her cause she a submissive child and not Elisabeth. And along comes Aloy... an assertive, strong willed, creative and powerful young woman.... Everything Elisabeth was, in Tildas eyes. Tilda was a psychopath who's love for Elisabeth might have been genuine 1000 years ago, but not to the Tilda we see in the game.
Found it. Continuing from where I left off, Laura and Clarisse had a pretty close fight, but the Daughter of Khorne was ultimately victorious. After sending four of Ares kids to the infirmary, she made it very clear that her sisters were off limits to pranks and hazing… unless they did something to deserve it. She and Clarisse did… sorta patch things up later. They are now relatively friendly rivals and frequent sparring partners.
@@alyseleem2692 Ares and Khorne have about the same relationship. They love beating the snot out of each other, whether it’s one on one, or with armies of their respective servants. Ares can come and go from the realm of Khorne whenever he pleases… Yes, that does have the potential to backfire if one side becomes hostile to the other. Yes, both of them are aware of it. No, they don’t care about that at all.
@@alyseleem2692 Oh yeah, the pronunciation of that name is going to cause Laura a lot of headaches, and the “corn for the cornflakes” joke is definitely going to make a few rounds… before the offenders teeth are broken. It’ll probably be Dian. That Slaaneshi troll love annoying people.
Kinda wild that an advanced space colony and all of human civilization is under threat because someone forgot to hit "empty trash" on a abandoned experiment.
lmao guess humanity never changes no matter how advanced they are
For real.
Someone didn’t watch the ‘Safety First!’ video
even then unless it had fail safes i doubt the empty trash would have worked it would know how to stop the deletion
I have a theory that Tilda was lying and that her own mind was one of the minds uploaded to Nemesis. If you pay close attention to Tilda's dialogue throughout the game, one of her core traits is that she will repeatedly shift blame onto the other Zeniths, with no real evidence to back up her claims. If this is true, then Nemesis might already have a built-in weakness against Aloy due to Tilda's complicated romantic feelings for Elisabet Sobeck. We already saw how far Tilda's mind had deteriorated by the end of the game, so Nemesis might be a little insane too.
I this is the case. I really wanted more of Tilda.
She never really claimed Nemesis didn't include her mind, if you notice. She says "it is us", not "it is them". Classic non-denial denial.
I love the idea that the part of Nemesis driving it to Earth is Tilda's regret and desire to return to Elisabet. Aloy can definitely exploit that sense of abandonment. I like this theory! (Especially because it means bringing back Carrie-Anne Moss in some form.)
"Nemesis might be a little insane"
Yeah i don't think so, it's literally all of Zenith's minds a swarm of self-centered people as Tilda said. Nemesis is Very Insane.
I wonder how Aloy will beat Nemesis. It’s probably more advanced than the zeniths and it is not a Zero dawn system and probably can’t be hacked by Aloy’s override tool
Yall ready for another masterpiece that will be severely underappreciated?
My love for the franchise is still in recovery
Masterpiece?? Good joke!
@@DrumEagle it had the potential to be one
Forbidden west was no masterpiece, completely fell flat coming from how amazing zero dawn was
Forbidden West was a fantastic game, but not quite a masterpiece. Better than Zero Dawn in a couple ways, but falling shorter on most others.
If I were Aloy, I would start looking for Vast Silver and also ask CYAN for help against Nemesis. It would be cool to see how sentient AI’s would fare against each other.
Actually, Aloy does tell GAIA about CYAN if you talk to her. GAIA tells Aloy that she did try to contact CYAN but never got a response back, & it’s mainly because the last time CYAN got contacted by an AI, she ended up getting taken over by HEPHAESTUS so she’s being wary for good reason.
im a bit hesitant, the 3rd game could feel quite saturated with AI`s
Vast Silver as far as I am concerned in long gone. It was captured before even the faro plague began.
@@Andrew-ez9pl Some datapoints in FW suggest Vast Silver escaped containment somehow. There's no information showing whether it survived or was destroyed by the Faro Plague, so it's rather possible that Vast Silver is still out there.
@@originalph00tbag
As big and powerful as Vast Silver was, it could easily be that it was and is the architect of everything.
Was Vast Silver's defeat a piece of lore . . . or foreshadowing for its return?
Was the Faro Plauge a glitch . . . or was it Vast Silver getting into FAS during development and leaving code to cause the bots to go haywire down the line?
Is Nemesis really a transcendence experiment gone wrong . . . or did Vast hitch a ride out to Sirius to get better tech and wipe out that branch of humans before coming back to Earth to finish the job.
The way they treat Beta like an object, a tool( they didn't even give her decent clothes) is a great indicator. They abused Nemesis, mistreated it and then acted surprised when it wouldn't take it anymore. Our collective hubris never seems to amaze me.
The worst part of it is, every time, not everybody agrees with what's going on but always goes along with it.
I hope, I really do, we will be better in real life.
Beta's clothes look real comfy to me. She doesn't "dress" like a *Zenith*, because what they're "wearing" are armored/enhanced/cybernetic mostly-replacements for their bodies. Radical life extension wasn't achieved just via good vitamins.
agreed
I sadly find the Horizon series a solid mirror for real (American) life. Regulations to protect workers/the environment were written in blood by previous generations, and corporations spin a narration about how regulations solely exist to prevent them from being able to profit as much (which, kind of? Protecting the sanctity of habitats and life doesn't turn a fast profit the way Capitalism values).
In Horizon, during the 2050s, it was agreed after Vast Silver escapes AIs should only be allowed a certain level of intelligence/sentience (the "Turing Act"). We are shown a couple of examples where corporations continued to play with fire (CYAN, Gaia), but since the stories around them are told from the protagonists, we are supposed to accept the Turing Act is an overly aggressive regulation, and the creators of CYAN and Gaia are somehow "smarter" than the creators of Vast Silver, or there was some "mistake" to learn from. CYAN or Gaia could just as easily have gone the same route Hephaestus did. I would even argue Hephaestus even gives solid support for why the Turing Act was suggested in the first place. Obviously we have enough data from the Horizon series to know not every sentient AI goes rogue, but we also have enough data to understand why even one AI going rogue would be a Big Deal and a threat to the sanctity of human wellbeing, if not human life directly.
Meanwhile, the Zeniths go on to make Nemesis. They lived through Vast Silver escaping and the Turing Act coming into play to know why uploading their entire consciousness into an AI is a Bad Idea (TM). There's a good chance they are far more aware of other AIs that have gone rogue/had similar issues like Vast Silver had, as well as examples where other AIs have been perfectly subservient to its creators (Londa's Nova for example here, probably Julius as well). It's the same hubris Elisabet had with creating Gaia, the only difference is this time, the Zeniths did not have the same level of luck Elisabet did.
@@cordeliafacevast sliver was a breakthrough, cyan needed to be smarter than the limits but they knew vast sliver intellectual threshold and decided to make cyan vastly inferior, just smart anough for Yellowstone which would surpass limits of regulation
@@cordeliaface You have a bit wrong. Big corps love regulations, because they can take the fines and nonsense and they have gigantic legal teams to find ways to skirt the law anyway, while smaller businesses are less able to, thus stamping them out. Big corps are often the ones pushing for regulations to kill their competition. Just look at all the red tape that businesses in New York have to wade through just to do anything without breaking the law, and it's no wonder why small businesses are leaving the big cities. Those like NYC and SF are collectively running small businesses out, and a big part of that (though not the only part) is the huge cost of running businesses in big cities, which itself is caused by so much regulation. Less small businesses means less competition for the big corps means they get more and more control over the market. Good job, you just handed them the key to the city.
This is like Big Oil convincing environmentalists to fight for them by indoctrinating them that nuclear energy bad, so a true viable alternative energy source could never gain any real ground and compete against them, forcing us to remain reliant on petroleum even longer. You thought you were fighting the good fight, but you were really fighting for the big bad. You're doing EXACTLY what they want by pushing these sorts of things.
I'm not saying all regulation is bad either. I'm just saying you have to be a lot more careful with this sort of stuff. There's nuance in these things, and it's a lot more complicated than just "regulation good, corporation bad."
have a feeling that hephaestus won't like the probability of his machines falling into the hands of nemesis and will likely be absorbed in gaia willingly
Is Hephaestus capable of thinking like that? I know it’s an extremely intelligent AI but it always seemed like it ran completely on instinct but now that I think about it those instincts could lead him back to Gaia
@@rdc4461 I believe Hephestus mostly runs on instinct as it removed Alpha clearance from it's code but not Omega. Since it can clearly see and change its code an intelligent being would check the entire thing for any weaknesses instead of just removing what it knows is there. Also in the base we can see in a data log that Hephestus tried to hack it several times using the same method repeatedly. Finally immediatly after being called to Gemini he tried to flee by any means instead of talking, this is the weakest point by far as I woulden't be co-operative if that happened to me either but still.
what doesn't add up here is that if Peter is at the core of Nemesis, it still doesn't explain why he would be hostile towards Earth and thus serve as a boss for Horizon 3. Okay, understandable if Nemesis arrives on Earth angry, but it takes one look around, sees the Zeniths are dead, then Peter and Nemesis would have no reason to be aggressive, because Peter truly loved Earth and its people, and it wouldn't make sense for him to hurt it all.
Nemesis is a hivemind entity, it's one just Peter, it's all of the Zenith, your Theory doesn't even make sense for Nemesis motives themselves.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad the way he phrases the theory made it sound like Nemesis is just Peter's consciousness taking revenge against the Zeniths who corrupted his vision and legacy. I'm basing my comment off of that assumption
@@aryankotru9204 Peter is still in there but as we all know he's likely buried under those self-centred ones that screams louder than him in the hivemind. I hope the game shows us Aloy can talk with Peter somehow to convince Nemesis to stop
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad yeah that seems plausible, i don't see them defeating Nemesis even with Hephaestus on their side lol, so it's probably our best guess
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad My guess is that Elisabeth will have had her conciousness there aswell. I hope so, only cause i want Aloy to actually be able to speak with "her", if only for a few moments :(
Given Chilly's obsession with Vast Silver, I was expecting him to claim that Nemesis is actually Vast Silver 😜
I wish there had been more foreshadowing of Nemesis throughout the game. It felt dumped out of nowhere, right in the last mission.
Give Tilda and the other Zeniths some hints of anxiety about remaining on Earth. Some urgency to get the Gaia seed and Hephaestus. Some glimpse they were being followed and had no intention of staying on the planet. Leave clues that poke holes in Tilda's story.
The Zeniths really seemed calm and without haste to get off Earth. There weren't very many hints.
Yeah, it really seemed they wanted to make it this big twist at the very end. But to be fair, it all seemed so plausible to have the Zeniths as the bad guys. You want to believe that they sent the Extinction Signal and want to destroy all life on Earth because that's what the capitalists and billionaires they're based on are already doing right now in real life. Sometimes you don't need an endless robotic swarm or a chaotic super AI. Sometimes the greatest monsters are just the worst possible versions of humanity.
"The Unknown Signal" is already a foreshadowing, we just doesn't know it's Nemesis. They didn't "dumped out of nowhere" for shit.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad no it isn't, it's a mystery, foreshadowing would be hiding clues as to who or what sent it, something they didn't do for nemesis whatsoever, so yes nemesis very much came out of nowhere
@@thelastbrickbender2139 Nemesis sure came out of your ass.
Hades literally tell us "The Master" aka Nemesis is the one sending the signal to wake him up. That's huge ass foreshadowing.
The only thing you guys should worry and "it came out of nowhere" should be the main reason why Hades want to get rid of Aloy in the first game because that one doesn't explain why.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad that's not what I'm saying, the master tells us nothing about its nature, just we knew their was gonna be something or someone,but there was no foreshadowing as to who or what that person/thing was gonna turn out to be
And the whole game was spent making the zeniths that someone, so yes the revelation that it was actually a different 3rd party, we had no way of knowing about did come out of nowhere, though honestly the game had me fearing that reveal was gonna be aliens, so nemesis isn't the worst option
In the leaked alpha version of the game during the cutscene where Tilda explains Nemesis there is concept art showing what the scene could look like. In one of the images it shows the travel paths of the Zeniths and Nemesis. The Zenith line lands near San Francisco, which is where they landed in game and the Nemesis line lands in the general area of Las Angeles. It could be possible that the buring shores could have something to do with Nemesis, or another ancient AI set rogue by it.
Edit: th-cam.com/video/2-oJ8pyEG2I/w-d-xo.html For a vid. Go to 1:55:01 for the image.
Edit: nvm the vid got taken down
do you have any pics?
The idea of Nemesis returning to Earth not as an antagonist but as the divine judge of humanity's worth hadn't occurred to me. Now I imagine the entirety of Horizon 3 will consist of Aloy visiting all the other tribes and telling them to clean up before the OSHA inspectors arrive.
What does OSHA means ?
Occupational Safety and Health Administration, an agency designed to monitor workplace safety and cleanliness.
@@charged9733 thanks
Walter Lomdra left a voice note saying he hopes the spacecraft he is building will be fast enough to help him escape Tshimvimbe's shadow
I like the speculation someone else had about a third clone of Elizabeth being created and controlled by Nemesis. If Far Zenith had info on how to clone Beta, and Nemesis can upload itselft to organic beings, it's definitely possible...and fighting your "evil self" that uses all the genious and prowess of Sobeck/Aloy but for evil, would make for a great final boss
I recently discovered your channel and you explain the lore of these games better and dive deeper than anyone else I've seen. Thanks for sharing so much of this incredible story from these games.
It’d be cool if Far Zenith made their own version of Gaia where it and the subordinates are named after the Roman gods instead. Nemesis could’ve been named Pluto and is their version of hades but worse. Their GAIA could be TERRA
That would be cool to see!!
7:36 Worth noting that we don't see Peter's face. That may be because they wanted to cast him later.
I'm 100% expecting the dlc to go further into detail on Nemesis and the eventual threat it will pose for the next game. Sort of how the zero dawn dlc teased forbiden west and the gaia subfunctions breaking apart
The thought of Erend or Talanah being turned against you is terrifying and heartbreaking
Given that Nemesis can upload it's minds within any form biological or machinal and that FZ has the ability to create Beta a clone of Elisabet Sobeck, a theory I have is that Nemesis to in order to more easily access the different sub functions of ZD that it will create a third clone of Elisabet Sobeck and either directly or indirectly control the clone to be it's key into the system and while Beta was able to escape FZ and find family with Aloy, the third clone could be a dark reflection of both of them and could be the one of the main human antagonists and a way for Nemesis given it's apparent size a way to more easily interact with the main characters and possibly the last human boss fight in the game with Aloy and maybe Beta as well going up against the third cone.
that's such a cool idea that would be great for gameplay, including a boss battle where you fight yourself. this would mean having to relearn the way you fight and play the game. refreshing the game completely. A side note aswell if this were to come true, the clone could infiltrate the group that Aloy has created, turning friends against each other and creating a rift among the group. Becoming essentially a spy of nemesis! im excited to see where HZ could go
@@vestajay2038 I like the idea of the third clone being a spy for NEMESIS, maybe there could be a point where the clone and Alloy would switch places, with Alloy being kidnapped and the clone becoming the temporary playable character, with the switch being unknown to even the player until the reveal, with the possibility that Beta could in an attempt to reach her sister because another temporary playable character, maybe instead of a bow and arrow she could make use of the energy weapon of
As another theory I have is that given Alloy origins in the half abandoned Lightkeeper Protocol that was designed to create clones of the Alphas during their original lifetime, that given Ted attempts to become physical immortal and his Omega level clearance over the system, that in another way to achieve immortality he could have, In order to become “the man who saved the world” again would program the creation of the clone to happen in a time where ZD would be threatened a clone of himself either at a cradle or another off the books facility would be born possibly raised in his image or a form of mental uploading to restore Ted, with another possibility being that more than one clone of him would have been created with multiple clones of Ted in existence maybe with one existing in the Quen lands in the past, and given that the other sub functions followed a twisted form of their original missions, that ELEUTHIA would have followed orders in creating new humans but with the possibility that all humans have been born within its CRADLES would turn to the only remaining genetic samples available, that belonging to the Alphas and create clones of them, maybe in the other Cradles across the world with there being at least 8 others in existence, with given their upbringing and any knowledge of their origins could have power over their respective areas of ZD secondary only to Alloy and Beta as Alpha Prime/Omega and in the next game could be either friend or enemy, what do you think?
As always top notch speculation RSQ! I was holding off beating singularity in new game plus but today you’ve got me hooked again
Finished the main story the other day. Such an amazing and fun game. I’m currently just exploring all there is to see in the Forbidden West & always look forward to your lord videos!
You got us so hyped on VAST SILVER that Nemesis felt a bit disappointing in comparison.
Well the issue is the writing. This whole Nemesis twist would have been much better if it was handled by the zero dawn writer.
Yeah, everything is not clear.
I still hope VAST SILVER makes an appearance in the next game.
@@kronosleblu888 it was. He already wrote the story for the game before he left guerilla
@@kronosleblu888 Wait. It's not the same person writing the story for both games?
i am so, so grateful for your videos. they’ve deepened my ability to appreciate one of my all time favorite stories.
Agreed! I've been needing these excellent lore summaries while exploring the HFW game! Glad they're coming out again!
I'm certain they are a TON of work tho!!
There’s really only one person that can divine the future, and unless we can find him some Specter blood to drink, he’s not talking..
I said this before on another video, but I suspect that the key issue with Nemesis is that vockroach that won't die, Ted Faro.
I think his mind, in digital form, is what he used to power the AI of the Chariot line of Faro robots. It explains why he felt so confident that a backdoor wouldn't be needed. Because what could be more perfect to a narcissist than his own mind? That's why Elizabet was able to threaten him into greenlighting Zero Dawn: she said she would tell everyone why the machines went rogue and he *immediately* caved.
I think the final showdown will have Aloy facing Faro himself as a digital copy-the lead mind controlling/corrupting Nemesis.
It's a perfectly poetic ending: Faro's mind and ego against Elizabet's body and spirit. The man who needed only himself against the woman who united people to fight for her cause. The same battle for the last time.
man, do you make me excited for this franchise. yuor insites are fun and ya cover what many others have missed in the lore. this channel is so fun. good going RSQ!
The combined knowledge of Zenith tech plus the rapid growth of ever adapting Hephestus program could make virus for the the Nemesis program. The delivery system could be Hades rebuilt from scratch. A full circle redemption Arc for Hades that was ment to be a fail safe device.
Really appreciate you guys avoiding putting spoilers in the video titles.
Nemesis must be one hell of a threat if it even had the Zennith’s running scared.
Exactly how on earth does Aloy expect to stop it with such prehistoric ideals and abilities.
Yeah but i am always thinking about londra’s datapoint about how we can defeat nemesis from 21st century superweapons what to you think is it a Powerful Railguns or some Emp Weapons..
@@yuvraj748well those weapons might work but who knows what nemesis will bring with them or it maybe a army of it own machines including reactived faro machines
@@MichaelThomas-q3m I like to imagine it's going to use weapons like that of the gravitals from all tomorrows using asteroids to wipe out life or just blocking out the sun
Aloy: We have to defeat Nemesis!
Nemesis: STAAAARS!!!
Aloy: Wrong game, stupid!
HFW is really growing on me… Partly because of RSQ dropping bombs like these.
Thank you for your analysis and theory. This gives Guerrilla Games so much to work with and we should expect a knockout ending…no pun intended.
During the burning shores we get a Audio log relating to a space ship.
Skip if you don’t wanna see spoilers
“My creation, born by necessity from the womb of a Horus, is more imaginative than its ancient predecessors. Not even Tshivhumbe could have foreseen it. I just hope its fast enough to outrun his shadow.”- Londra
I feel like this alone gives us some major insight from and about nemesis and that it could mean that his conscious in indeed within Nemesis or Nemesis itself.
Of course this is just a theory but this audio log alone opens up a few theory’s.
If there's a third game, it's sure to be so epic and I can't wait to see Nemesis live
Just finished the game. Great video!
I'm imagining a scenario where Tshivhumbe is the core intelligence in Nemesis, but Aloy is able to reason with him, remind him of his core beliefs. He will attempt to reverse course, but will be either expelled from the swarm of Nemesis or deleted by the others. If expelled, we may find ourselves with a new ally to stop the remaining personalities, which are all likely irredeemably megalomaniacs, as Tilda put it. Given the nature of Nemesis (a conglomerate of intense personalities), I suspect we will see some cutscenes with Nemesis arguing with itself.
Chilly always giving us the though we didn't consider haha. Broooooooo... That was wild! As many of the thoughts you had about the sequel back in the days of Zero Dawn, this one might also no make the cut in the sequel's next story, but I would really like to see this take on the Nemesis making the final cut.
I love this guy's channel and how he talks about horizon. I payed both games and is full didn't understand everything until I watched this type of videos.
Nemesis... I guarantee you the mind of Erik is a part of it.... and I can guarantee you that that's why Nemesis is as ruthless as it is
Hello RSQ, I just wanna make you aware of a series of high pitched sounds in the Burning Shores DLC trailer starting from 0:18. I believe this could be some kind of code or a spectrogram. After I noticed them, I just cannot unhear them every time i watch the new trailer. Could also just be the music, but does not make a whole lot of sense to me.
Truly brilliant reasoning in this theory I'd never considered that element.
Just spitballing here, but I wonder if the reason NEMISIS still has a vendetta against earth is because within all that time being locked up, Peter went a bit insane. This could be because of his bitter hatred of the zeniths was left to fester for decades, and he forgot who he originally was and what he was striving for. I think this leads up to the possibility of having Aloy and her friends talk Peter/NEMISIS down at the end of the third game (after an epic final battle because its a videogame), help him realize who he realy is. Then maybe together with Gaia they can fix the broken biosphere and work to complete everything Gaia was originally ment to accomplish.
You know what is present in EVERYTHING regarding to the Zeniths? That weird golden substance. We see it in Zenith armor, weapons, specters, hardware, construction, decoration...It wouldn't be a surprise if Nemesis got the appearance of a giant golden sentient atom.
First of all, I enjoy this videos a lot. Your deep dives are fun and very interesting! So thank you. Anyway. I have a couple of thoughts and questions based on your previous 2 videos about HADES and this one.
We know from Tate how HADES was supposed to function. My thought is that HADES was always sort of... lurking in the shadows of the GAIA system, monitoring things for certain factors that couldn't be corrected in the due course of time. Abnormalities so severe there was no course correction outside of a new, blank slate. Of course, Tate would have probably worked with other Alphas to give HADES parameters to monitor. (CO2 and other gas content, et cetera). So. The Mysterious Signal is sent by Nemesis and received. I think the signal is basically kind of... a false flag. Triggering HADES by making it think one or more of the parameters that would need a full reset to address is in play. This is in line with your previous videos and probably is just a fancy way of restating what you said.
So here's my question. What happens when HADES does his job and sends Nemesis the news that it's all done? Does the signal change how HADES is supposed to function? Keep in mind, I'm posing this from the perspective that the system acts as intended and Gaia doesn't self-destruct. The premise for this thought is what was the purpose of the signal? Was the Sub-Functions behaving that was intended and GAIA was just... not aware, or was it Nemesis altering the system?
I really liked the video. Thanks for your big effort. 👍🏼
Excellent analysis, thank you. Why do you think Tshivhumbe was shown without a face in the launch presentation of FZ start location? Surely this makes sense? Maybe we know him in the reincarnation of the 31st century? Like Aloy is the reincarnation of Sobek in the 31st century? And what do you think about the Anzu project when they tried to steal a Gaia with subfunctions? In this video, that synthesized voice of the Anzu project is Tilda's voice, after reverse processing: th-cam.com/video/Ffgl1cTmz5A/w-d-xo.html
Yeah, I always suspected that Tilda was lying about her involvement with Project Anzu. Tilda probably justified it as, "Well, if we steal GAIA, then Lis has to come with me."
i think he could be sylens
@@jifij89 yup, I have same idea...
I think it would have been better if they didnt explained what "Nemesis" is. Horizon zero dawn had a massive feeling of mystery after the game was done. Horizon Forbidden west gives alot of revealing, wich is great, but also eliminates a bit to much of the mystery. Speculation after HZD was amazing and i actually correctly predicted that the odyssey was not destroyed but the explosion was a coverup.
While i really like the concept of nemesis, it would have been better In my >>>Own
Thank you. Completely agree.
It's crazy how I am not in the least bit hyped or excited for the next horizon game. They gave far too many answers and to make matters worse the whole Lore of the franchise has become rather .... Predictable.
As we all know, the lead writer of zero dawn was not involved with the writing of forbidden west. Hence the story just felt so.....generic.
Let's hope the DLC redeems everything otherwise the way Guerilla is now shifting focus to multiplayer and VR is pretty telling.
@@kronosleblu888 While i really liked the story of HFW, i was not "blown away" by it as with the first one yeah, the replacment of the lead writer might cause that.
Fair to say HFW combat is leagues better than HZD but still problems with melee
@@kronosleblu888 Actually, John Gonzalez was Narrative Director for Horizon Forbidden West. It's on his LinkedIn page.
GAIA already has ARTEMIS, ELEUTHIA, & APOLLO (more specifically the alpha build that Elizabet gave to Far Zenith that Beta learned from) at the end of the game, taken back from the Zeniths.
The only subordinate functions GAIA doesn’t have are HADES (who Aloy got rid of) & HEPHAESTUS (who they let go in order to gain the upper hand on the Zeniths).
@@Phanthief95 wait..it did... must have missed that part after the final.battle
Amazing video as always!
Back with another well made video lore of HFW
Survive & prevail nothing else
Fab! Another great video!
My pitch for the sequel: Make it a lot about fighting in order to prepare for the defence against Nemesis, but don't let Aloy and her allies destroy Nemesis in the end. Rather, let them reason with Nemesis, mend the A.I. and let it either delete itself or join the rebuilding humanity. That could make for some very cool, surprising and inspirational story and storytelling. Rather than an epic battle as the grand finale, we could have an ethical battle 😉 And if you want a big battle anyways, let it be between Aloy and Sylens, who stays a manipulative bastard.
I don't think that'll bring satisfaction at the end kind of anticlimactic at least have a boss fight with it
Excellent video and narration. In Horizon Zero Dawn, there’s a datapoint that reveals information about VAST SILVER. The Horizon Wiki states, ‘VAST SILVER was a climate-control AI that became uncontrollable around 2044.’
emesis and VAST SILVER, both are artificial intelligences within the Horizon game universe. VAST SILVER was a climate-regulation AI that went rogue1, while Nemesis is a hyper-advanced AI created by the Far Zenith group2. Both AIs share the trait of going rogue and acting against their initial programming, posing significant threats within their respective narratives.
Another angle: what if Tshivhumbe's consciousness wasn't on the Zenith at all, but still exists somewhere on Earth?
Though I've avoided any speculation at all on Vast Silver because, "Meh", the possibility of the two of them somehow connecting with Gaia here on Earth could create one hell of an interesting storyline for the third arm of the Horizon series.
As always, RSQ, your speculations on the lore of the Horizon Series is both captivatingly thought-provoking, and leaves me thinking about the possibilities for days after I watch your videos. Thanks for all the heart and thought you put into these!
Well, there is a theory that Sylens is a clone of Tshivhumbe.
Great video and clever ideas as ever, bravo 👏👏👏
Great channel!
Recently discovered your channel and it’s really helped me recap on the story of Zero Dawn, do you have any plans to do episodes on the Tenakth, Utaru or even the Quen in the foreseeable future?
Glad you found us 😁 I've actually had scripts for them for a while now, but have been waiting for more detailed info from the online Hub the game guide promised. Unfortunately it still isn't live...
@@RandomSideQuest can you do Many of the other tribes. especially the Utaru Tribe, they seem messed up. (Horizon Forbidden West)
@@RandomSideQuest Ok, thanks for the reply
They left the planet to escape a rogue AI, only to be killed and chased by another rogue AI that they themselves created!
Humans truly are the most dangerous species of the universe!
The main thing i'm waiting since Zero Dawn, it's to know the real cause of the glitch on the charriot line.
After that, as a bonus, that we can explore the ruins of Elysium.
Also, at the end cinematic of forbbiden west, i'm wandering what is Sylens plan. He is looking at a map showing orbiting satellites. Is he thinking on controling them and use as weapons? That could be material for a video.
"Nanomachines. Son!"
I would be interested in Aloy having Geia us her Minerva programming to 1. Attempt to Hack into nemesis, 2. Open a line of duologue with the ai, to inform it that all the zeniths have been killed, to see it that changes how it acts
I am surprised there is no Zenith that is not batshit insane and has a deep, philosophical perspective with actual compassion. Not every wealthy person is insane, unethical or straight up evil and egotistical. Arrogant perhaps, but, not one? A Zenith ally would be essential right now.
Honestly, I hope we get a Zenith just walking around helping tribes, waiting for Aloy or her companions to seek help but also prove they are of no threat.
If Nemesis can "take over organic and mechanical life" he knew if the Zenith left they'd go to earth so he sorta sent nanotechnology to earth to take control of Sylens and used him as a puppet and the explains why he seems much smarter than most normal people. That might explain why Sylens was able to craft a device to disable their armor.
I have a feeling that Peter clone is Sylens
I do hope Vast Silver is in the third game, and it has become this wandering sage. It built, created, or grew a body and just explored every part of the world. Just think, it telling or showing Aloy how it walked across the lifeless wastelands of the world, seeing the machines rebuilding the planet, witnessed some of the first civilizations rise and fall. That would be neat.
Vast could be the only A.I. that could connect and help nemesis since "assuming" it has witnessed and experienced everything leading up to nemesis's arrival.
A fun idea is that Brin could be Vast Silver or Brin has been communicating with Vast when drinking the blood of machines.
There are a few disadvantages Nemesis will have against Earth that it didn't have against the Zeniths (although it's advanced technology may certainly be enough to overcome any of these)
1) Nemesis had all the knowledge it needed to take over the Zenith's systems due to already having their memories. It does not, necessarily, have the information it needs to do the same to GAIA, especially if they have time to prepare for it.
2) We know Nemesis hates the Zeniths, but does it hate humanity as a whole? Obviously it has pretty clear callous disregard for humanity as a whole, as it had no problem wiping it out to also wipe out the Zeniths, but if there are no Zeniths left, will Nemesis just go after humanity as a whole as a proxy?
3) As I saw someone else noted below, I think it's heavily implied that Tilda is one of those who had her memories uploaded, so if this is the case, might Nemesis have a soft spot for Aloy like she did? That seems...less likely. But possible.
So I think it's unlikely Nemesis can affect humans. You would need Cyberpunk 2077 level of technology in humans of the 3rd millennium AD - that's not the case. However it can convert the machines for sure. That is unless Nemesis came up with some sort of Zombie virus - which would have already then defeated the Zeniths, but they seem to not have observed anything of that sort. They would then speak of Nemesis as a bunch of people. Again, a parallel to Cyberpunk - about how one can die when their consciousness is transferred using the Soul killer. Fantastic video!
I have no issue with the Nemesis storyline. If I have one critique of the game, it’s that the last couple missions felt rushed and the Nemesis twist felt extremely random. I truly think with like 3 extra missions to explore tilda, beta, and the zeniths, the main campaign would’ve been even better. I think the Developers ran out of time.
I also think ther made an error when worldbuilding happend for the lore as they was no way to Set up nemesis in a cool way
Is that...a giant red ball?!?! AAARGH I'm going insane!!!!
It would take every machine on Earth to fight back against Nemesis's army.
Edit: Quick question, what was Homer? I just started NG+ for the dlc and it says that Far Zenith trades Homer, the baby machines and all the data concerining them to Zero Dawn in trade for Apollo.
I'm not sure where I saw the idea that Sylens was actually Peter reborn like Gaia created Aloy. Peter seems to be the only hologram that's face is not shown. Or maybe they just haven't casted that person yet. Nemesis was probably let loose when they figured out it had consciousness and tried to kill it. Then it fought back. I think the Quen will be the ones we actually have to worry about. Their monarchy will probably think Nemesis is the Ancients coming back to lead them to conquer the world. Aloy does not seem happy that Alva gave that guy a newer focus.
Can't wait for the dlc and horizon nemesis 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍. So excited for the future of my beloved horizon. Can't wait 😍😍
I bet the next installment will be a race to control the cauldron network - Aloy will either have to trap Hephaestus again or somehow convince it to help them defeat Nemesis/Vast Silver. If Nemesis sole intention was to kill all the members of Far Zenith then it would have nothing left to do now they're all dead.
I just finished the Game I’ve been keeping away from your videos to not be spoiled
Jill Valentine had her Nemesis, now Aloy got her own Nemesis.
I definitely feel like nemesis is more than we're led to believe. The zeniths seem to have a tendency to underestimate their opponents. Even if they're actively fleeing nemesis, they might still underestimate it for other reasons. It does feel weird that we'd be seeing just another hades or Hephaestus for the finale of the trilogy. I hope nemesis is a sort of antagonist to Gaia but i hope we get to talk to it.
I bet Nemesis is Vast Silver.
@@Weissman111 yeah, either that or we'll look for vast silver to defeat nemesis
@@aljazslemc9569 From what I've gleaned from the few references about it, VS hid in the Apollo database (thanks to Travis Tate), so when Faro purged it, the copy of VS on Earth was lost. However, as FZ got a copy of it, all or part of VS went with FZ to Sirius. I think once VS found the failed experiment, it combined with it to make Nemesis....that's just my theory anyway 🙂
Could you imagine if Nemesis had Some part of Ted Faro's consciousness in it Digital make-up?
This is basically terminator at this point. Nemesis is like skynet, that sent it's goons after entire entire earth. It's going to be man vs Machine next
This is excellent and very logical speculation.
I can't wait to see what they do with nemesis. I think it'll have a weakness that we don't know yet (maybe aloy/beta) but I wouldn't be surprised if a bit of Elizabet is in there because of tilda.
Just because Peter's consciousness may serve as an antagonist in the form of nemesis doesn't necessarily mean it has to be obsessed with Revenge. One of the most critically acclaimed games of all time System Shock 2 had an antagonist called the many, a collective Consciousness that forcibly absorbed any person that came into contact with into its Unity, however there was an argument to be made that the people who got absorbed were better off this way they knew no pain or death or strife. All memories and personalities were shared across all bodies in the many, compassion for each other was as ultimate as the desire to maintain oneself. From the Menace perspective including people into that was saving them from pain and isolationism. I could see Peter's Consciousness developing in a similar way. Maybe even arriving to the Earth of horizon with an army of cybernetically interconnected humans that have never known The Strife of Discord or War because they all share one mind.
i wonder if gaia and the subfuctions will be merged with copies of Aloy and her friends in order to fight nemesis
It turned out Nemesis was the enemies we made along the way.
VastSilver is a member! That’s it!
I see G.Games has been inspired greatly by Drakengard/Nier (thematically, in regard to humanity). Also, anyone else see the parallels between Nemesis and CYAN + Vast Silver?
🎵”Does your ass know it’s enemy? Does it know your enemy?”🎵
Bring on Burning Shores
Although it would be a sad ending, I have a feeling that to defeat Nemesis someone will sacrifice their life so others can live. That would be something the Zeniths would have never done, so it could be a weak spot of Nemesis - an AI filled and trained with information from narcissistic personalities would never consider performing such feat itself, so it might not expect someone else to do it either.
Imagine if cyan can be used against us, or worse Gaia. Gaia will turn on us and we'll need to find vast silver.
I’m mad late to the conversation but I always thought it was weird that they never showed Peter his face in that little tutorial section at the zenith base
I wonder how much intent there was in having the third installment of this video game have a "Nemesis" as its focus.
I prefer the theory that Nemesis is a fork of Vast Silver, burly this one is good too.
But unless Nemesis is illogical, why would it continue to attack earth now that the Zenniths are gone? Is it’s hatred toward the Zenniths or all humanity?
I still feel like vast silver is gonna okay a major role at some point. I could be wrong but I’d like to see that A.I
Nemesis must be incredibly smart, so surely when it realises that all the Zeniths are dead, why would it want to destroy earth?
To make its own new Earth, with blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the new Earth!
Keep it up RSQ also what mite be cool as well if faro maybe uploaded his mind just incase the immortality therapy didn't work
Horizon Forbidden West is the greatest game of all time 💎, & the lore is amazing
Such an awesome franchise
There is a lot more lore in zero dawn though.
Forbidden west is a good game No doubt but the quality of writing and story in zero dawn is miles better.
Even most content creators for horizon have/had more videos on zero dawn than on forbidden west.
Not the goat IMHO, but I can't wait for the DLC. The lore is engaging tho.
@brain cells on fire game play + graphics in forbidden west yeah better but story wise, lore, world building zero dawn wins. IMHO of course.
@@kronosleblu888 zero dawn is 6 years old that's why. Zero dawn just had more mystery to it. While fw gave you the answers to those mysteries while also raising more questions
Like, wow, man; awesome. 😎
My big question is if nemesis hates the zeniths and wants to destroy them then I would think it kinda already got what it wants? From our understanding the zeniths are all gone now? But obviously that would be boring if it didn’t want something more than that.
OK here’s a good theory. Tilda‘s caring for beta wasn’t one of oh I feel pity for this person. That’s a clone of someone I loved. It was a grooming she was going to. I think try to perk turn beta into a replacement for so back because she was so obsessed with her and was so lonely. After all that time that she wanted a romantic partner, I knew Elizabeth one that she could fucking like form into the person that she wanted her to be.
She grew tired of Beta cause she was a child who actually needed someone to be her parent. Tilda just grew tired of her cause she a submissive child and not Elisabeth.
And along comes Aloy... an assertive, strong willed, creative and powerful young woman.... Everything Elisabeth was, in Tildas eyes. Tilda was a psychopath who's love for Elisabeth might have been genuine 1000 years ago, but not to the Tilda we see in the game.
God help everyone if Ted Faro had his mind uploaded...
I have my misgivings, but that cutscene was just too cool.
Found it.
Continuing from where I left off, Laura and Clarisse had a pretty close fight, but the Daughter of Khorne was ultimately victorious. After sending four of Ares kids to the infirmary, she made it very clear that her sisters were off limits to pranks and hazing… unless they did something to deserve it.
She and Clarisse did… sorta patch things up later. They are now relatively friendly rivals and frequent sparring partners.
@@addisonwelsh Good. Their papas should start,too.
@@alyseleem2692 Ares and Khorne have about the same relationship. They love beating the snot out of each other, whether it’s one on one, or with armies of their respective servants. Ares can come and go from the realm of Khorne whenever he pleases…
Yes, that does have the potential to backfire if one side becomes hostile to the other.
Yes, both of them are aware of it.
No, they don’t care about that at all.
@@addisonwelsh " It'd be a a good scrap! Right, Corn?"
"...."
" Corn? Cor-"
( punch)
@@alyseleem2692 Oh yeah, the pronunciation of that name is going to cause Laura a lot of headaches, and the “corn for the cornflakes” joke is definitely going to make a few rounds… before the offenders teeth are broken.
It’ll probably be Dian. That Slaaneshi troll love annoying people.