@@Tattletale-Delta Bruh, I've grown up playing Morrowind, I watched endless amounts of lore videos, gone through the UESP wiki multiple times, have played the Unity version of Daggerfall, and love the concept of the False Shezzarine that Dagoth Ur embodies, the dark enlightenment that all is him, so him harming anything is justified as it's just him. Etc. Yet I didn't know this lol, I know Vvardenfell is the island, not the entire province of Morrowind, but I always remembered it in my head that St Jiub drove the cliffracers from Morrowind. Interesting. But in anycase you're wrong about "only people who aren't familiar with the lore would easily confuse that." We humans are silly, we easily confuse things alot, experts do so all the time in every field.
I‘m pretty sure, that one of the loading screens in Skyrim says, that the isle of Solstheim was given to the dunmer by the high-King after the red year. So maybe the nords did take it over
I vaguely recall that it was something of solstheim having drifted into nord sea. Like the island drifted far enough away from morrowind to where it now belonged to Skyrim. Weird example to explain, but imagine Alaska broke off from Canada and drifted closer to Russia so Russia claimed it as their own before giving it back to America following California sinking into the sea after the eruption of Yellowstone.
@@bokrugthewaterserpent3012 That doesn't even seem that weird to me... After the Red Mountain exploded, it has become significantly less appealing to push the boarder, it's not great further in, and Solstheim hasn't really ever been much of a prize outside of a foothold.
@@bokrugthewaterserpent3012 Why should Torygg care? It wasn't his conquest. That happened hundreds of years in the past under a different dynasty, and even then it was acknowledged as unlawful/not correct of the nords to do since it probably went against what the Empire wanted.
The Somerset Isles rumours predict the rise of the third Aldmeri Dominion. And what irked me about Skyrim was the lack of any destroyed oblivion gate remains. That would have been a cool nod to Oblivion.
I believe they are in Skyrim's game files if I'm not mistaken. I remember a mod I played some years back accidently added an oblivion gate in the water like just outside Riften.
I think the writers clarified that the folks in Skyrim destroyed every Oblivion gate so that it won't haunt them and such. This was also a big contention when the USSEP/USLEP creator Arthmoor deliberately inserted the Oblivion gates back into Skyrim.
@@forehand101 There are none in Skyrim's game files, though a new oblivion gate asset was made for the Anniversary Edition for the Creation Club 'The Cause' Creation, and made available as an asset for usage. However none existed prior to that in Skyrim's original 2011 or SE 2016 release. If a mod 'accidentally' added an oblivion gate then the author accidentally added one from a modder's resource, rather than any base game files, there was one modders resource for Oblivion Gates made by Hanaisse in 2012 which was what all mods adding oblivion gates were using until fairly recently.
I feel like these complains are strange considering one of the main aspects of the Elder Scrolls, the Unreliable Narrator. You are forgetting that these rumors being discussed are just that, rumors that have made their way into the talking points of cyrodil, from people who only tangentially know about them. No one really knows what happened to Viviec, mostly because its kinda up to the player. So some people thinking the Daedra took him is a believable theory. Yeah some great houses ended up better off than others, but whos to say their plans worked out? Or maybe it was propaganda.
Like other people have said Juib only cleared Vvardenfell of Cliffracers, that's about 1/4 to 1/3 of Morrowind, so people going hunting for Cliffracers in Morrowind still works. Also, I think part of that was more a fun easter egg than anything else, as I think everyone hated the Cliffracers in Morrowind (the game) so having the first guy you meet clear them out is fun :)
It seems they used the 200 years forward so they could just ignore the set of rumors from Oblivion. Something of notice is the lack of HF and HR rumors. I wonder if it was because the not released spin off that was supposed to be in HR. I get curious their cherry picking of Pocket Guide and game book references Falkreath got demoted from the birthplace of the Colovian Emperor Zero to a logging town with a death fetish; Whiterun still has the family feud but no mention of the Witch Queen or the floods and droughts (maybe the ruined house was to symbolize the hard times?); The Reach hold was demoted from the metropolitan bread & basket of the province to a region who only dig silver and gold (and no mention of the Voice College, in the game with shouting as a mechanic); Solitude still has the bard college, the imperial faith temple, the Blue Palace from the Wolf Queen (which I think it was a bad interpretation of the palace in Cyrodiil); Riften returns the Barenziah biography to the TG quest and her barbed friend as an easter egg; Winterhold got obliterated. From Nordic Byzantium to college campus. Windhelm somehow carries alone the nordic tradition of disliking foreigners (mainly elves)
While I get why Bethesda downplayed the Oblivion Crisis in Skyrim, as to not alienate new players; the entire series is filled with refrences to historical events, that you have to learn about in dialog and lore books. For example: The Wolf Queen questline in Solitude relies on information only mentioned in the lore, the Glenmoril Witches are in the Companions quest line without much introduction and one of the more unique locations in the world is a direct reference to the tie in novels. Would it be that much more confusing for new players if there were refrences to this historical calamity that directly led to some of the major events in the game.
This is a cop-out plain and simple. If someone's picking up game number 5 in a series they've never played before, should it not be completely expected that they'd be "confused" until they learned the lore? This is part of the problem with Bethesda; you can't learn when the information just isn't there. But it should be.
The Glenmorial Witches are older than that actually. They were a rare encounter in ES2 where you could find Covens of them in the Wilderness. They could summon any Daedra for you at any time but they could only do so randomly; want to talk to Sheogorath? Too bad, it's Molag Bhaal. Want someone specific? Wait for their one holy day out of the Year and try a Temple. 😂
@@a.j.carter2294Not really, it’s been 200 Years since Oblivion, what happened isn’t necessarily relevant much to the lives of people in the here and now.
@@adarus9941 I would disagree, even if it's only grandparents reccounting what their grandparents were saying about demons coming out of big gates, I think it would be more prominent. Also, the historical parallels with the dragons would be an apt point of comparison between the Oblivion crisis and the re-emergence of the dragons and Alduin, especially as they remember the rebellion against the dragons by the nords of the past which is much older, and considering the Daedra are still worshiped by some who are extremely powerful due to their connections to the Daedra.
I might be wrong, but I read somewhere that the "syndicates of wizards" that were boycotting goods in Summerset Isle were the Thalmor. So that rumour did obviously feature an outcome if true. Also, to be complete accurate, Jiub drove the Cliff Racers from Vvardenfell specifically, the quote you provided at 19:19 could potentially mean other parts of Morrowind?
Two things about the rumours of the other provinces: 1. They're rumours. Gossip. Maybe they're true, maybe they're false, maybe they're somewhere in-between. Blah blah, unreliable narrators (on the note, remember that in-game books are also a form of unreliable narrator, since in-universe they're being written by people stuck with their own misconceptions, biases, and agendas). How does some guy in Leyawiin know what's going on in High Rock for instance? It's on the other side of the continent. Similar to if someone in medieval Portugal were to talk about events occurring all the way in Russia. Take everything that an NPC says when talking about rumours with a grain of salt, as the writers are under no obligation to explain to you how heresay works. 2. A lot of these would have been contained within the last year of the 3rd era, and therefore wouldn't be relevant to 99% of the population of Skyrim, the oldest of whom would've been less than a negative-century old during those events. Unless if there's a political or social cause for it, or they're a history buff, nobody really cares what happened more than a hundred years before they were born, especially since it would therefore have literally no relevance to whatever you're doing in the day-to-day. Do you know what was happening in your home town 200 years ago? Do you genuinely care? I will admit though, one thing that does seem odd is how the Great Houses were handled. Flipping the narrative to a full 180 is pretty weird. Of course, the vast majority of people didn't notice or just didn't care because it was throw away dialogue between NPCs that people didn't really care about to begin with. Beyond that, this video just felt like a waste of my time. The absence of explicit reference to something doesn't mean that thing was retconned away; that would be like saying that because Glarthir wasn't mentioned at all in Skyrim, then he's just been completely retconned out of existence. Vivec is still a character in Elder Scrolls lore, and Skyrim never did a damn thing to change that.
Skyrim takes place over 200 years after Oblivion. People not talking about a war from that long ago makes sense cause they weren't involved in it. 200 years is also plenty of time to rebuild after the oblivion crisis. Why would Skyrim be decimated that much later? Just think about how quickly cities etc rebuilt after the 2nd world war which wasn't even 100 years ago. People often don't casually talk about these kinds of things just randomly. Jiub dying somewhere else is whatever tbh, other people here pointed out the cliff racer details. Skyrim was also first planned to have a completely different story with the Dragons coming from akavir so if that was something they may have had a semblance of plans for it naturally makes sense to change some things.
That would be true if several characters didn't talk about BEING in that war in the game. I've always been confused about that, either the war was more than a hundred years ago or was thirty years ago, or there were two wars. One of the characters talk about being in the Imperial City watching the magic descend on the city just before the surrender. Also Europe rebuilt that quickly because the US dumped a lot of resources into those countries to rebuild. We're talking MASSES of resources.
Bad point. The American revolution, for instance, was over 200 years ago. We still talk about it, and learn the details in school. 200 years isn't a long time in a historical sense, it is very short time; it takes a lot longer for things to be completely forgotten even in an illiterate society with mortal humans. Tamriel seems to have had the printing press from antiquity, and also has elves and wizards and other beings that live hundreds of years and would remember the events personally Your statement "People not talking about a war from that long ago makes sense cause they weren't involved in it." is ludicrous. Talking bout things from the past that you weren't involved in is called "HISTORY". Have *you* ever talked about a war you didn't fight in? I know i have...
Also you make this statement " People not talking about a war from that long ago makes sense cause they weren't involved in it." but you go on to say: " Just think about how quickly cities etc rebuilt after the 2nd world war which wasn't even 100 years ago" But why are you talking about a war from that long ago? By your own logic, It doesn't make sense, because you weren't involved in it. Right...?
You said: "People often don't casually talk about these kinds of things just randomly." However, we are casually and randomly talking about these things, yes? and also several other people in this comments section, yes? I very often casually discuss various random points of history with my friends, which is probably true of most people with an interest in history. Anyway pardon the critical triple reply. nothing personal.
@@impishrebel5969 The war referred to in Skyrim is the Great War, a war between the empire and the Aldmeri Dominion which took place roughly 30 years before Skyrim. It’s entirely unrelated to the events of Oblivion, which takes place 170 years before the Great War, and 200 years before Skyrim.
Now that we're a few heavily heavily modded TES games deep, it's starting to look less like retcons and more like a wishlist the devs insert, 'We can just say this exists and 20 years from now some team will make it all to spec for free, until our next release nullifies all of it they might even believe we will put any of it in a game.' - And it's definitely working, if you look at TR and Project Tamriel. Todd has done it again.
Everything in this video is actually pretty easy to explain by Bethesda: 1. Rumors were exaggerated 2. Some events happened like Reddoran near collapse but they came back 3. Regarding the Saint, they did not figure out he was in Kvatch until some time after Oblivion 4. Summerset rumors are clearly referring to Aldemari Dominion 5. Evidence of Solstein War was pretty much erased by Volcano eruption which is a bigger event 6. The Skyrim rumors, if true, are the best point in this video. IMO, I think a lot of the rumors were exaggerating semi-truths.
The Skyrim rumors aren't necessarily false or exaggerated. The video makes it seem as if there's no time gap between the two games and that there is absolutely no traces of the conflict, but the two are actually set more than 200 years apart and there are ruined fortifications _everywhere_ in Skyrim.
For real. Skyrim takes place over 400 years after Oblivion so most of those "current event" dialogue lines are old history by then. There's a ton of ruins throughout the old holds of Skyrim that could easily be from the Oblivion Crisis. Solstheim still belonging to the Dunmer just means the Nords lost whatever fights they had over their border dispute. Some random drug cartel is hardly gonna be remembered, let alone relevant, 400 years later. I don't think this guy knows what a retcon is.
Retcons? Mate, i don't think you realize how long ago 200 years is. Even in a world with immortal elfs, sorry immortal mer. Why would amy, let alone all the topical rumours from 200 years ago still be relevant? Especially given the Thalmor and red mountain's explosion? You're basically asking why nobody is talkint about what was happening during the time of the black death in the imidiate wake of the Krakatoa eruption.
None of these are retcons at all. It seems that this person doesn't know what the word "retcon" means. Just because they didn't add the same rumors that NPCs talked about in a game that is based two hundred and one years after Oblivion doesn't mean it has been retconned. They just chose not to add it because, for the most part, it was just some random dialogue that didn't mean much in the end. That is like saying that because they didn't add rats into Skyrim but they had them in Oblivion, rats are now retconned.
Tbh Todd Howard even said the games are not realistic representations of the universe of the elder scrolls. Like all the cities are way bigger then in the games.
It's always entertaining/infuriating when lore 'experts' magically forget what a retcon is and instead just start using the term to bash a game. Fallout is full of those ppl.
A lot of places in Skyrim are in the state of ruin or disrepair, like all the forts and Whiterun's fortifications, my personal headcanon is that probably quite a few of them were destroyed/damaged during the Oblivion Crisis and most weren't ever repaired since, especially some of the more isolated forts
yeah, a lot of skyrim is damaged. On the other hand, that was like 200 prior. Also the civil war is happening while the game happens... dunno wat to think.
Eh, fans will find a way to string it together with headcanon and fanon. Most of these are just not followed up on, but not necessarily retconned, so we can treat them as canon. just not important enough to mention. For the rest, we can assume that the NPC gossiping about it wasn't as in-the-know as they thought they were. The Solstheim one is pretty egregious, though, iirc Dragonborn claims the nords gifted Solstheim to the dunmer following the red year, meaning they already controlled the island, which might make the rumor of a nord invasion a bit silly.
I always thought the Empire controlled the island, with the staffed forts and the East Empire Company town that you help start up. Or at least that the Empire felt entitled to Solsteim. Possible that an influx of Nords to "reclaim" the island while the Legion was slowly withdrawing back to Cyrodiil like Vvardenfell's happened, and the Imperials took it as an invasion instead of the correct "you have gall setting up on land you don't even own"?
@@neoqwerty playing through Morrowind recently... The Empire considers Morrowind an independent province with Vvardefell being the frontier/edge of the Empire. Solsteim is essentially untamed wilderness, with Fort Frostmoth being recently built and considered the farthest outpost (think being stationed in Alaska or Antartica in our world. Ravenrock doesn't exist prior to the players arrival. You basically spend the East Empire Company questline building and establishing the mining town. The most extreme northern settlement in vanilla Morrowind is an old Nord fishing village. Most likely a vistage element from the Nord invasion and occupation of Morrowind in the 1st era. The Dunmer just don't seem to care for the extreme northern regions of their homeland.
My guess is the devs were like, "Okay what can we write that **sounds** like it could be true but we don't necessarily need to stick with it. I think they intended from the start for that dialogue to be throw-away since it doesn't seem like Bethesda ever has the ability to plan years ahead. Just my take though, curious if others feel the same.
Bethesda constantly suffers from "let's plan for this", then they change mid-setup because something sounded cooler. Daggerfall was supposed to be called Mournhold, and to solve the "something is driving its citizens crazy" hook that Arena's city blurb for Mournhold pitches. Then Morrowind was supposed to be called "Tribunal" and follow up on Morgiah's Wedding quest where she promises "her first" to Mannimarco, and it was supposed to have the royalty of Summurset and the corruption of the Psijic Order. Then Oblivion was supposed to be "Tharnatos" and deal with Tharn's Mythic Dawn and Ayleid revivalists. Then Skyrim was supposed to be about the Civil War and the dragons were just a side quest, and they swapped them out.
Okay, Cyrodiil is the capital of the entire continent. Why would it be strange for the people there to talk about the other provinces? Almost all of them share borders with Cyrodiil?
When it comes to the matter of word of mouth rumors, I don't really regard these as solid lore. The lore isn't being delivered as a statement of fact, but as a "I heard about this, trust me bro" form of information. As such, these rumors not panning out in a future game doesn't really feel like a retcon to me so much as a confirmation that these tidbits from the previous game were either outright lies coming from the characters speaking them or the characters were simply misinformed or were exaggerating. Especially if the news traveled between ten other people one to another before it reached them. Each one tells the "news" a little different each time, until a volcanic eruption destroying some military forts turns into a full on invasion.
Too bad. Some of those odd ruins in Skyrim could have been ruined Oblivion gates. 300 years between games allows them to ignore most things from Oblivion though.
I always wondered; in Skyrim, you never come across any remnants of the Oblivion Crisis? 🤔 Like, no crumpled Oblivion Gates or anything? Though I guess there are crumpled Forts dotted around I suppose...
To be fair, the nords have had 200 years to comb through every forest and valley and pull down the ruins of any gate they find, to make DARN sure they never open up again. 😂
Well, yes, I do, but real life doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things here. You’re making a direct follow-up to a game where they had world-ending consequences. The world isn’t as in-depth as our own, so it wouldn’t be out of the question to at least acknowledge some of it. The assassination of Uriel Septim was just as long ago, but it still gets brought up. Why shouldn’t the follow-up be?
The furthest back I or anyone I talk to talk about is about 100 years. Mostly in reference to stuff happening now. There is no reason for npcs to talk about. Stuff that old when you have such big current events.
@@UnknownG2000 I agree with a lot of other commenters, these are all rumours from people who are tangentially connected to the events playing out in the particular regions they're talking about. Sure, there maybe should be more evidence, such as the Oblivion gates, but as many others said, it's been 200 years and people have probably torn them down, to avoid the memory and to reuse material, which happened all the time in history. These are not retcons, they're rumours, some of which have spread out of control, and some which may have been truthful. I personally don't talk about the Napoleonic Wars or the Congress of Vienna all the time, just because they aren't that relevant, but yes there should at least be stories about the Oblivion crisis, and some parallels drawn with the Dragons returning.
I never thought about it, but the idea of Jiub dying from a unexpected attack from Daedra does indeed sound less appealing when compared to the idea of him being a figurehead in the battle against Daedric forces in Morrowind, dying valiantly after charging into the gate in a attempt to find a way to close it.
It was destroyed by the Sea of Ghosts itself roughly 80yrs before the events of Skyrim. It was known as the Great Collapse. Savos Aren said "The Sea of Ghosts practically came alive!"
It should be noted that for the Nerevarine Prophecy to be fulfilled, the Tribunal must be slain. The crime of the Almsivi must be righted. It’s annoying that killing Vivec gives that broken thread of prophecy message… more so when you loot Wraithguard from his corpse and can power it up and continue to complete the prophecy. The tribunal church, after their man-gods were slain, have to save face by saying Vivec went wandering.
All the Argonian's being "called back" to Black Marsh is probably because of the Oblivion crisis. In fact, according to post-oblivion lore, the Argonian's gave the Daedra so much hell in Black Marsh that the Daedra actually had to retreat and close the gates! Literal demons were being forced to run for their lives BY LIZARDS!
So you missed something, I wanna point out for you. "The greybeards are speaking of the end of times" is the exact line. The wording matters. The greybeardS (plural) are SPEAKING of the end of time.
Yo een retcon is een bestaande stuk lore die buiten de cannon om wordt gewijzigd (meta dus). Dit is absoluut geen retcon. In game heet het zelfs een een RUMOUR. Je weet wat dat zijn toch? Niet betrouwbare roddels? Geruchten?
The series known for lore that is incredibly convoluted due to inconsistent, unreliable narrators that tell the tales of times lost and sometimes just outright lying about those events just to make their side look better. Yup, let's accept these rumors from random people on the street as 100% factual and not at all a potential case of either telephone or just juicy gossip. You did not do enough research, but you have potential. Do better.
Oblivion itself forgets about the crime syndicate; who absolutely should've been more prominent on the Southern border and had way more dealings with the thieve's guild. The Grey Fox was very strategic with skooma trade trying to avoid as much damage to the impoverished citizens of the dock's district My headcanon about the daedra worship is it was taken advantage of by the Thalmor who flushed it from the isle as a populist movement appeasing to the traditional ideals of the Altmer I cannot believe Dres would abolish slavery even if the Numidium itself demanded. Which is why I prefer Skyrim's version where the Argonians plow through the House's territories. Also Houses working together? Ridiculous! I guess Redoran becoming much more popular after the events of Oblivion giving it a renewed membership may be a possibility. It's not every day you see a city revive a massive crab to fight spiky assholes. This could've also brought some solidarity from the Nords which leads into the sympathy shown during the Red Year How the fuck does the richest and most loyal to the Empire House just die? What the fuck Todd
The Empire has literally declined? It lost whole provinces and wealth in the great war. Add that to the fact that the legions were called back to cyrodill and that morrowind was left to defend themselves. You think house Hlaalu wouldn't suffer any repercussions from all that?
@@valentinchappa6702 obviously the Empire is in decline, but at best weve shifted from a golden era with the dragon's blood to a more politically intriguing one more akin to our Rome at it's peak. The greatest departure and shifts we have seen is the Empire giving Hammerfel it's autonomy back and the assassination of Ocato. Hlaalu is loyal to where the money is and if Skyrim is anything to go by money is still power. I doubt Redoran would be willing to partake in some sort of war over tradition post crisis as their numbers have greatly slimmed while Hlaalu is more than happy to pay for more men + partake in proxy wars. Dres has denounced slavery so who knows how they're getting along without their main export haha. Telvanni is the strongest case for having a go at Hlaalu taking advantage of their economy and traditionalism - but like the modern Empire they're marred in politics leading to inaction. It's simply weird Hlaalu just dies rather than say it dissolving into Imperial companies or new Eastern ventures. It's the one house that has it's slimy roots dug into every inch of society and will refuse to die
@@Aanderan well I don't think Hlaalu declined instantly the second you turned off the Xbox 360, but over 200 years it makes sense that come the dragonborn dlc, some remembers of the house are personally willing to plan out a campaign of revenge, instead of just hiring the Morang Tong, or a private army. People forget that the 3rd Aldmeri Dominion didn't just come out of nowhere. The fact that the Empire bailed on basically EVERY province left a spiritual wound(and literal wounds) that wouldn't just be forgiven or forgotten. The Empire is so WASHED by the great war let alone the 4th era. It's safe to say that it's vassals would also decline and diminish.
summerset lines were clearly foreshadowing of talmor, elsweyr rumors end up realized through skyrim's travelling (drug)merchants as a whole game mechanic and became a vital plot point in various questlines, morrowind got nuked and argonians rumors ended up followed upon in the novel. The only non realized lines are about orc mercs. TLDR BS clickbait video
about the Jiub stuff, thats just classic Bethesda writing, they never think about consequences of events, they just thought it would be cool and it ended there
19:09 Regarding saint Jiub. He eradecated all the cliff racers on Vvardenfell NOT all of Morrowind so nothing is invalidated here.
yea though i can see how it can be easily misconstrued that way
@@kobold7466 Only inferior man would easily confuse that. A mer, especially a superiorly bred Altmer, would never.
@@Tattletale-Delta Bruh, I've grown up playing Morrowind, I watched endless amounts of lore videos, gone through the UESP wiki multiple times, have played the Unity version of Daggerfall, and love the concept of the False Shezzarine that Dagoth Ur embodies, the dark enlightenment that all is him, so him harming anything is justified as it's just him. Etc. Yet I didn't know this lol, I know Vvardenfell is the island, not the entire province of Morrowind, but I always remembered it in my head that St Jiub drove the cliffracers from Morrowind. Interesting.
But in anycase you're wrong about "only people who aren't familiar with the lore would easily confuse that." We humans are silly, we easily confuse things alot, experts do so all the time in every field.
@@Tattletale-Delta lol that edit.
@@Ristaak xD
I‘m pretty sure, that one of the loading screens in Skyrim says, that the isle of Solstheim was given to the dunmer by the high-King after the red year. So maybe the nords did take it over
I vaguely recall that it was something of solstheim having drifted into nord sea. Like the island drifted far enough away from morrowind to where it now belonged to Skyrim. Weird example to explain, but imagine Alaska broke off from Canada and drifted closer to Russia so Russia claimed it as their own before giving it back to America following California sinking into the sea after the eruption of Yellowstone.
@@JustSomeDude42nah that wasn’t weird I loved it. Perfect analogy and a funny thought experiment. Thank you.
@@bokrugthewaterserpent3012 That doesn't even seem that weird to me... After the Red Mountain exploded, it has become significantly less appealing to push the boarder, it's not great further in, and Solstheim hasn't really ever been much of a prize outside of a foothold.
@@bokrugthewaterserpent3012 Since the Nords considered Solstheim their territory, "given to" in this context could mean "allowed them to keep".
@@bokrugthewaterserpent3012 Why should Torygg care? It wasn't his conquest. That happened hundreds of years in the past under a different dynasty, and even then it was acknowledged as unlawful/not correct of the nords to do since it probably went against what the Empire wanted.
The Somerset Isles rumours predict the rise of the third Aldmeri Dominion.
And what irked me about Skyrim was the lack of any destroyed oblivion gate remains. That would have been a cool nod to Oblivion.
I believe they are in Skyrim's game files if I'm not mistaken. I remember a mod I played some years back accidently added an oblivion gate in the water like just outside Riften.
I think the writers clarified that the folks in Skyrim destroyed every Oblivion gate so that it won't haunt them and such. This was also a big contention when the USSEP/USLEP creator Arthmoor deliberately inserted the Oblivion gates back into Skyrim.
@@ElysiumLeoSK Arthmoor is not the only ''creator'' us USSEP. Don't give that cretin any more credit than what he deserves
@@Nuniixo Ah yeah my bad my bad
@@forehand101 There are none in Skyrim's game files, though a new oblivion gate asset was made for the Anniversary Edition for the Creation Club 'The Cause' Creation, and made available as an asset for usage. However none existed prior to that in Skyrim's original 2011 or SE 2016 release.
If a mod 'accidentally' added an oblivion gate then the author accidentally added one from a modder's resource, rather than any base game files, there was one modders resource for Oblivion Gates made by Hanaisse in 2012 which was what all mods adding oblivion gates were using until fairly recently.
I feel like these complains are strange considering one of the main aspects of the Elder Scrolls, the Unreliable Narrator. You are forgetting that these rumors being discussed are just that, rumors that have made their way into the talking points of cyrodil, from people who only tangentially know about them.
No one really knows what happened to Viviec, mostly because its kinda up to the player. So some people thinking the Daedra took him is a believable theory. Yeah some great houses ended up better off than others, but whos to say their plans worked out? Or maybe it was propaganda.
Like other people have said Juib only cleared Vvardenfell of Cliffracers, that's about 1/4 to 1/3 of Morrowind, so people going hunting for Cliffracers in Morrowind still works. Also, I think part of that was more a fun easter egg than anything else, as I think everyone hated the Cliffracers in Morrowind (the game) so having the first guy you meet clear them out is fun :)
One way to look at it is that a lot of the rumors were just that, rumors.
It seems they used the 200 years forward so they could just ignore the set of rumors from Oblivion.
Something of notice is the lack of HF and HR rumors. I wonder if it was because the not released spin off that was supposed to be in HR.
I get curious their cherry picking of Pocket Guide and game book references
Falkreath got demoted from the birthplace of the Colovian Emperor Zero to a logging town with a death fetish;
Whiterun still has the family feud but no mention of the Witch Queen or the floods and droughts (maybe the ruined house was to symbolize the hard times?);
The Reach hold was demoted from the metropolitan bread & basket of the province to a region who only dig silver and gold (and no mention of the Voice College, in the game with shouting as a mechanic);
Solitude still has the bard college, the imperial faith temple, the Blue Palace from the Wolf Queen (which I think it was a bad interpretation of the palace in Cyrodiil);
Riften returns the Barenziah biography to the TG quest and her barbed friend as an easter egg;
Winterhold got obliterated. From Nordic Byzantium to college campus.
Windhelm somehow carries alone the nordic tradition of disliking foreigners (mainly elves)
TBF, Pocket Guide is implied to be Imperial propaganda, and the Voice College was seemingly filled with charlatans and the like
While I get why Bethesda downplayed the Oblivion Crisis in Skyrim, as to not alienate new players; the entire series is filled with refrences to historical events, that you have to learn about in dialog and lore books. For example: The Wolf Queen questline in Solitude relies on information only mentioned in the lore, the Glenmoril Witches are in the Companions quest line without much introduction and one of the more unique locations in the world is a direct reference to the tie in novels. Would it be that much more confusing for new players if there were refrences to this historical calamity that directly led to some of the major events in the game.
This is a cop-out plain and simple. If someone's picking up game number 5 in a series they've never played before, should it not be completely expected that they'd be "confused" until they learned the lore? This is part of the problem with Bethesda; you can't learn when the information just isn't there. But it should be.
The Glenmorial Witches are older than that actually. They were a rare encounter in ES2 where you could find Covens of them in the Wilderness. They could summon any Daedra for you at any time but they could only do so randomly; want to talk to Sheogorath? Too bad, it's Molag Bhaal. Want someone specific? Wait for their one holy day out of the Year and try a Temple. 😂
@@a.j.carter2294Not really, it’s been 200 Years since Oblivion, what happened isn’t necessarily relevant much to the lives of people in the here and now.
@@adarus9941especially with a civil war and dragons flying about
@@adarus9941 I would disagree, even if it's only grandparents reccounting what their grandparents were saying about demons coming out of big gates, I think it would be more prominent. Also, the historical parallels with the dragons would be an apt point of comparison between the Oblivion crisis and the re-emergence of the dragons and Alduin, especially as they remember the rebellion against the dragons by the nords of the past which is much older, and considering the Daedra are still worshiped by some who are extremely powerful due to their connections to the Daedra.
The way they pronounce Falkreath in Oblivion makes me gag and laugh.
Falk Ray Ath. /shudders
@@neoqwerty I know right?
I might be wrong, but I read somewhere that the "syndicates of wizards" that were boycotting goods in Summerset Isle were the Thalmor. So that rumour did obviously feature an outcome if true.
Also, to be complete accurate, Jiub drove the Cliff Racers from Vvardenfell specifically, the quote you provided at 19:19 could potentially mean other parts of Morrowind?
Two things about the rumours of the other provinces:
1. They're rumours. Gossip. Maybe they're true, maybe they're false, maybe they're somewhere in-between. Blah blah, unreliable narrators (on the note, remember that in-game books are also a form of unreliable narrator, since in-universe they're being written by people stuck with their own misconceptions, biases, and agendas). How does some guy in Leyawiin know what's going on in High Rock for instance? It's on the other side of the continent. Similar to if someone in medieval Portugal were to talk about events occurring all the way in Russia. Take everything that an NPC says when talking about rumours with a grain of salt, as the writers are under no obligation to explain to you how heresay works.
2. A lot of these would have been contained within the last year of the 3rd era, and therefore wouldn't be relevant to 99% of the population of Skyrim, the oldest of whom would've been less than a negative-century old during those events. Unless if there's a political or social cause for it, or they're a history buff, nobody really cares what happened more than a hundred years before they were born, especially since it would therefore have literally no relevance to whatever you're doing in the day-to-day. Do you know what was happening in your home town 200 years ago? Do you genuinely care?
I will admit though, one thing that does seem odd is how the Great Houses were handled. Flipping the narrative to a full 180 is pretty weird. Of course, the vast majority of people didn't notice or just didn't care because it was throw away dialogue between NPCs that people didn't really care about to begin with.
Beyond that, this video just felt like a waste of my time. The absence of explicit reference to something doesn't mean that thing was retconned away; that would be like saying that because Glarthir wasn't mentioned at all in Skyrim, then he's just been completely retconned out of existence. Vivec is still a character in Elder Scrolls lore, and Skyrim never did a damn thing to change that.
Yeah, there are things you can criticize in Skyrim but this sure ain't one of 'em
Skyrim takes place over 200 years after Oblivion. People not talking about a war from that long ago makes sense cause they weren't involved in it.
200 years is also plenty of time to rebuild after the oblivion crisis. Why would Skyrim be decimated that much later? Just think about how quickly cities etc rebuilt after the 2nd world war which wasn't even 100 years ago.
People often don't casually talk about these kinds of things just randomly.
Jiub dying somewhere else is whatever tbh, other people here pointed out the cliff racer details.
Skyrim was also first planned to have a completely different story with the Dragons coming from akavir so if that was something they may have had a semblance of plans for it naturally makes sense to change some things.
That would be true if several characters didn't talk about BEING in that war in the game. I've always been confused about that, either the war was more than a hundred years ago or was thirty years ago, or there were two wars. One of the characters talk about being in the Imperial City watching the magic descend on the city just before the surrender.
Also Europe rebuilt that quickly because the US dumped a lot of resources into those countries to rebuild. We're talking MASSES of resources.
Bad point. The American revolution, for instance, was over 200 years ago. We still talk about it, and learn the details in school. 200 years isn't a long time in a historical sense, it is very short time; it takes a lot longer for things to be completely forgotten even in an illiterate society with mortal humans. Tamriel seems to have had the printing press from antiquity, and also has elves and wizards and other beings that live hundreds of years and would remember the events personally
Your statement "People not talking about a war from that long ago makes sense cause they weren't involved in it." is ludicrous. Talking bout things from the past that you weren't involved in is called "HISTORY". Have *you* ever talked about a war you didn't fight in? I know i have...
Also you make this statement " People not talking about a war from that long ago makes sense cause they weren't involved in it."
but you go on to say: " Just think about how quickly cities etc rebuilt after the 2nd world war which wasn't even 100 years ago"
But why are you talking about a war from that long ago? By your own logic, It doesn't make sense, because you weren't involved in it. Right...?
You said: "People often don't casually talk about these kinds of things just randomly."
However, we are casually and randomly talking about these things, yes? and also several other people in this comments section, yes?
I very often casually discuss various random points of history with my friends, which is probably true of most people with an interest in history.
Anyway pardon the critical triple reply. nothing personal.
@@impishrebel5969 The war referred to in Skyrim is the Great War, a war between the empire and the Aldmeri Dominion which took place roughly 30 years before Skyrim. It’s entirely unrelated to the events of Oblivion, which takes place 170 years before the Great War, and 200 years before Skyrim.
Snowhawk was a capital in Arena and a ruin in Skyrim, I like to think it was the oblivion crisis
Now that we're a few heavily heavily modded TES games deep, it's starting to look less like retcons and more like a wishlist the devs insert, 'We can just say this exists and 20 years from now some team will make it all to spec for free, until our next release nullifies all of it they might even believe we will put any of it in a game.' - And it's definitely working, if you look at TR and Project Tamriel. Todd has done it again.
Idk if you understand the concept of world building lol
Whats TR?
@@radthadd Tamriel Rebuilt, I assume
Everything in this video is actually pretty easy to explain by Bethesda:
1. Rumors were exaggerated
2. Some events happened like Reddoran near collapse but they came back
3. Regarding the Saint, they did not figure out he was in Kvatch until some time after Oblivion
4. Summerset rumors are clearly referring to Aldemari Dominion
5. Evidence of Solstein War was pretty much erased by Volcano eruption which is a bigger event
6. The Skyrim rumors, if true, are the best point in this video. IMO, I think a lot of the rumors were exaggerating semi-truths.
The Skyrim rumors aren't necessarily false or exaggerated. The video makes it seem as if there's no time gap between the two games and that there is absolutely no traces of the conflict, but the two are actually set more than 200 years apart and there are ruined fortifications _everywhere_ in Skyrim.
None of these things were retconned.
For real. Skyrim takes place over 400 years after Oblivion so most of those "current event" dialogue lines are old history by then. There's a ton of ruins throughout the old holds of Skyrim that could easily be from the Oblivion Crisis. Solstheim still belonging to the Dunmer just means the Nords lost whatever fights they had over their border dispute. Some random drug cartel is hardly gonna be remembered, let alone relevant, 400 years later.
I don't think this guy knows what a retcon is.
@@Zartanyus It's 200 years.
@@Nuniixo Indeed it is. I guess I mixed up 4th era and year 201 in my head and came out with 401, haha.
I think my overall points still stand, though.
Retcons? Mate, i don't think you realize how long ago 200 years is. Even in a world with immortal elfs, sorry immortal mer. Why would amy, let alone all the topical rumours from 200 years ago still be relevant? Especially given the Thalmor and red mountain's explosion? You're basically asking why nobody is talkint about what was happening during the time of the black death in the imidiate wake of the Krakatoa eruption.
Have you heard the news that Napoleon just died on Saint Helena!?
@@LordDim1impossible ! he was going in russia not long ago 😢
None of these are retcons at all. It seems that this person doesn't know what the word "retcon" means. Just because they didn't add the same rumors that NPCs talked about in a game that is based two hundred and one years after Oblivion doesn't mean it has been retconned. They just chose not to add it because, for the most part, it was just some random dialogue that didn't mean much in the end. That is like saying that because they didn't add rats into Skyrim but they had them in Oblivion, rats are now retconned.
Tbh Todd Howard even said the games are not realistic representations of the universe of the elder scrolls. Like all the cities are way bigger then in the games.
Rats are in Skyrim, but the dominant species is just the Skeever, they're one and the same
@@Nuniixo Not in the game, Skyrim. I know in the lore, but gameplay wise, there are not creatures with the name "rat"
Aren’t cyrodylic rats and skyrims skeevers closely related but very different after the harsh northern environment
Tbf if im not a nord and some rando is asking questions in the cold, I wouldn't want to chat either
It's always entertaining/infuriating when lore 'experts' magically forget what a retcon is and instead just start using the term to bash a game. Fallout is full of those ppl.
In skyrim no one saw a mud crab the other day and no one thinks they’re nasty creatures.
And they’ve all heard of the high elves!
yeah, and no one has fought one fiercer than you either! The warrior crabs are gone!
A lot of places in Skyrim are in the state of ruin or disrepair, like all the forts and Whiterun's fortifications, my personal headcanon is that probably quite a few of them were destroyed/damaged during the Oblivion Crisis and most weren't ever repaired since, especially some of the more isolated forts
yeah, a lot of skyrim is damaged. On the other hand, that was like 200 prior. Also the civil war is happening while the game happens... dunno wat to think.
7:16 I don’t think I’ve ever heard Falkreath pronounced like that before
I look forward to seeing how much historic detail they add in TES:VI.
"Dragons? Myths and legends, I tell you!"
Jiub's head is on a table in a small house in Kvatch, he dies shortly before the player arrives.
@@covia1337 No.
@@UnknownG2000Yes.
Eh, fans will find a way to string it together with headcanon and fanon.
Most of these are just not followed up on, but not necessarily retconned, so we can treat them as canon. just not important enough to mention.
For the rest, we can assume that the NPC gossiping about it wasn't as in-the-know as they thought they were.
The Solstheim one is pretty egregious, though, iirc Dragonborn claims the nords gifted Solstheim to the dunmer following the red year, meaning they already controlled the island, which might make the rumor of a nord invasion a bit silly.
I always thought the Empire controlled the island, with the staffed forts and the East Empire Company town that you help start up. Or at least that the Empire felt entitled to Solsteim. Possible that an influx of Nords to "reclaim" the island while the Legion was slowly withdrawing back to Cyrodiil like Vvardenfell's happened, and the Imperials took it as an invasion instead of the correct "you have gall setting up on land you don't even own"?
@@neoqwerty playing through Morrowind recently...
The Empire considers Morrowind an independent province with Vvardefell being the frontier/edge of the Empire.
Solsteim is essentially untamed wilderness, with Fort Frostmoth being recently built and considered the farthest outpost (think being stationed in Alaska or Antartica in our world.
Ravenrock doesn't exist prior to the players arrival. You basically spend the East Empire Company questline building and establishing the mining town.
The most extreme northern settlement in vanilla Morrowind is an old Nord fishing village. Most likely a vistage element from the Nord invasion and occupation of Morrowind in the 1st era. The Dunmer just don't seem to care for the extreme northern regions of their homeland.
My guess is the devs were like, "Okay what can we write that **sounds** like it could be true but we don't necessarily need to stick with it. I think they intended from the start for that dialogue to be throw-away since it doesn't seem like Bethesda ever has the ability to plan years ahead. Just my take though, curious if others feel the same.
Bethesda constantly suffers from "let's plan for this", then they change mid-setup because something sounded cooler.
Daggerfall was supposed to be called Mournhold, and to solve the "something is driving its citizens crazy" hook that Arena's city blurb for Mournhold pitches.
Then Morrowind was supposed to be called "Tribunal" and follow up on Morgiah's Wedding quest where she promises "her first" to Mannimarco, and it was supposed to have the royalty of Summurset and the corruption of the Psijic Order.
Then Oblivion was supposed to be "Tharnatos" and deal with Tharn's Mythic Dawn and Ayleid revivalists.
Then Skyrim was supposed to be about the Civil War and the dragons were just a side quest, and they swapped them out.
Okay, Cyrodiil is the capital of the entire continent. Why would it be strange for the people there to talk about the other provinces? Almost all of them share borders with Cyrodiil?
When it comes to the matter of word of mouth rumors, I don't really regard these as solid lore. The lore isn't being delivered as a statement of fact, but as a "I heard about this, trust me bro" form of information. As such, these rumors not panning out in a future game doesn't really feel like a retcon to me so much as a confirmation that these tidbits from the previous game were either outright lies coming from the characters speaking them or the characters were simply misinformed or were exaggerating. Especially if the news traveled between ten other people one to another before it reached them. Each one tells the "news" a little different each time, until a volcanic eruption destroying some military forts turns into a full on invasion.
Too bad. Some of those odd ruins in Skyrim could have been ruined Oblivion gates. 300 years between games allows them to ignore most things from Oblivion though.
Happy to see you broke 1k! Thanks for the lore deep dives.
I thought that Saint Jiub only wiped out Cliff Racers on Vvardenfell, not mainland Morrowind.
I always wondered; in Skyrim, you never come across any remnants of the Oblivion Crisis? 🤔
Like, no crumpled Oblivion Gates or anything? Though I guess there are crumpled Forts dotted around I suppose...
To be fair, the nords have had 200 years to comb through every forest and valley and pull down the ruins of any gate they find, to make DARN sure they never open up again. 😂
@@DrFranklynAnderson Fair point! They probably would rip them all down.
I think you can find Jiub's head in Kvatch
literally write as I wrote that lol
You can. Its sitting on top a dresser in the ruined house full of Daedra opposite the church.
@@CorvoFG With a soul gem near it too!
None of these are retcons at all
Do you talk about events from 200 years ago every day?
Well, yes, I do, but real life doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things here. You’re making a direct follow-up to a game where they had world-ending consequences. The world isn’t as in-depth as our own, so it wouldn’t be out of the question to at least acknowledge some of it. The assassination of Uriel Septim was just as long ago, but it still gets brought up. Why shouldn’t the follow-up be?
The furthest back I or anyone I talk to talk about is about 100 years. Mostly in reference to stuff happening now. There is no reason for npcs to talk about. Stuff that old when you have such big current events.
@@UnknownG2000 So, when’s the last time you discussed the death of Napoleon out on the street?
@@UnknownG2000 I agree with a lot of other commenters, these are all rumours from people who are tangentially connected to the events playing out in the particular regions they're talking about. Sure, there maybe should be more evidence, such as the Oblivion gates, but as many others said, it's been 200 years and people have probably torn them down, to avoid the memory and to reuse material, which happened all the time in history. These are not retcons, they're rumours, some of which have spread out of control, and some which may have been truthful. I personally don't talk about the Napoleonic Wars or the Congress of Vienna all the time, just because they aren't that relevant, but yes there should at least be stories about the Oblivion crisis, and some parallels drawn with the Dragons returning.
You can find Jiub in Kvatch, his severed head is in one of the ruined houses (you can even see the Daedra that took his soul exiting)
I never thought about it, but the idea of Jiub dying from a unexpected attack from Daedra does indeed sound less appealing when compared to the idea of him being a figurehead in the battle against Daedric forces in Morrowind, dying valiantly after charging into the gate in a attempt to find a way to close it.
didnt the majority of winterhold fall into the sea due to the crisis? or am i getting things mixed up?
It was destroyed by the Sea of Ghosts itself roughly 80yrs before the events of Skyrim. It was known as the Great Collapse. Savos Aren said "The Sea of Ghosts practically came alive!"
@@TheGravityShifter I got things mixed up
@@fistofice At least your knowledge has been refined.
@@TheGravityShifter I know too much lore… it looped back to me knowing none of it
@@fistofice Lol, it happens.
It should be noted that for the Nerevarine Prophecy to be fulfilled, the Tribunal must be slain. The crime of the Almsivi must be righted. It’s annoying that killing Vivec gives that broken thread of prophecy message… more so when you loot Wraithguard from his corpse and can power it up and continue to complete the prophecy.
The tribunal church, after their man-gods were slain, have to save face by saying Vivec went wandering.
oblivions npcs in general are more interesting and have more immersive conversations than skyrim’s heavily-scripted npcs
All the Argonian's being "called back" to Black Marsh is probably because of the Oblivion crisis. In fact, according to post-oblivion lore, the Argonian's gave the Daedra so much hell in Black Marsh that the Daedra actually had to retreat and close the gates! Literal demons were being forced to run for their lives BY LIZARDS!
The jiub part is isn't a retcon though, he did die in kavatch, you can literally find his head on a chair in the city if you know where to look
Lore is a double edged sword. As a fan of the Forgotten Realms, I know your pain.
Theres no retcon bruh
Love your content!
I just got confused with your mentions of this Daedra being, me and my boys only know the foul D-dra
It would have been great if you could find closed Oblivion gates in Skyrim, but alas, this is not the case.
did eso cinematics always go so hard?
Wasn’t there a whole quest about the old imperial presence in solstiem?
Yep
So you missed something, I wanna point out for you.
"The greybeards are speaking of the end of times" is the exact line. The wording matters.
The greybeardS (plural) are SPEAKING of the end of time.
oblivion retconned all the interesting stuff with cyrodiil to the point where i couldn't care less about the lore it introduced
good video
So anyway, I started Dragon Breaking.
Let's be honest. How often do you talk about things that happened 300 years ago?
Subscribed.
What's up unknown gangsta
@@nowhereman2003 Nothing much. Though that’s not what the name stands for.
There are no retcons in TES, only perspectives and claims.
The references to Helseth in Oblivion are obviously false as the Nerevarine killed him!
Where are the retcons? You take as retcons just the events happening between oblivion and skyrim
Yo een retcon is een bestaande stuk lore die buiten de cannon om wordt gewijzigd (meta dus). Dit is absoluut geen retcon. In game heet het zelfs een een RUMOUR. Je weet wat dat zijn toch? Niet betrouwbare roddels? Geruchten?
Dragonbreaks.
No, just 200 years passing
The series known for lore that is incredibly convoluted due to inconsistent, unreliable narrators that tell the tales of times lost and sometimes just outright lying about those events just to make their side look better. Yup, let's accept these rumors from random people on the street as 100% factual and not at all a potential case of either telephone or just juicy gossip. You did not do enough research, but you have potential. Do better.
Just wait til the lore mess that tes6 makes lol
Oblivion itself forgets about the crime syndicate; who absolutely should've been more prominent on the Southern border and had way more dealings with the thieve's guild. The Grey Fox was very strategic with skooma trade trying to avoid as much damage to the impoverished citizens of the dock's district
My headcanon about the daedra worship is it was taken advantage of by the Thalmor who flushed it from the isle as a populist movement appeasing to the traditional ideals of the Altmer
I cannot believe Dres would abolish slavery even if the Numidium itself demanded. Which is why I prefer Skyrim's version where the Argonians plow through the House's territories. Also Houses working together? Ridiculous!
I guess Redoran becoming much more popular after the events of Oblivion giving it a renewed membership may be a possibility. It's not every day you see a city revive a massive crab to fight spiky assholes. This could've also brought some solidarity from the Nords which leads into the sympathy shown during the Red Year
How the fuck does the richest and most loyal to the Empire House just die? What the fuck Todd
The Empire has literally declined? It lost whole provinces and wealth in the great war. Add that to the fact that the legions were called back to cyrodill and that morrowind was left to defend themselves. You think house Hlaalu wouldn't suffer any repercussions from all that?
@@valentinchappa6702 obviously the Empire is in decline, but at best weve shifted from a golden era with the dragon's blood to a more politically intriguing one more akin to our Rome at it's peak. The greatest departure and shifts we have seen is the Empire giving Hammerfel it's
autonomy back and the assassination of Ocato.
Hlaalu is loyal to where the money is and if Skyrim is anything to go by money is still power. I doubt Redoran would be willing to partake in some sort of war over tradition post crisis as their numbers have greatly slimmed while Hlaalu is more than happy to pay for more men + partake in proxy wars. Dres has denounced slavery so who knows how they're getting along without their main export haha. Telvanni is the strongest case for having a go at Hlaalu taking advantage of their economy and traditionalism - but like the modern Empire they're marred in politics leading to inaction.
It's simply weird Hlaalu just dies rather than say it dissolving into Imperial companies or new Eastern ventures. It's the one house that has it's slimy roots dug into every inch of society and will refuse to die
@@Aanderan well I don't think Hlaalu declined instantly the second you turned off the Xbox 360, but over 200 years it makes sense that come the dragonborn dlc, some remembers of the house are personally willing to plan out a campaign of revenge, instead of just hiring the Morang Tong, or a private army. People forget that the 3rd Aldmeri Dominion didn't just come out of nowhere. The fact that the Empire bailed on basically EVERY province left a spiritual wound(and literal wounds) that wouldn't just be forgiven or forgotten. The Empire is so WASHED by the great war let alone the 4th era. It's safe to say that it's vassals would also decline and diminish.
summerset lines were clearly foreshadowing of talmor, elsweyr rumors end up realized through skyrim's travelling (drug)merchants as a whole game mechanic and became a vital plot point in various questlines, morrowind got nuked and argonians rumors ended up followed upon in the novel. The only non realized lines are about orc mercs.
TLDR BS clickbait video
about the Jiub stuff, thats just classic Bethesda writing, they never think about consequences of events, they just thought it would be cool and it ended there
Sad but trueeeeeee
lol apparently you are wrong
no they forgot the lore lol