I ride an FJR1300 and we can run on 87 octane with no issues. I tend to stick with the major brands of gas and not go too much third party, I. E. Valero! With only 6 gallon gas tank I am refueling at about a quarter of a tank dry, putting 2-3 gallons of fuel is not as bad as filling up my Jeep. Great vid!
I had planned to make a video just about the using premium fuel when you don't have to. I have a friend who insists on running premium fuel in a Kawai 900 Vulcan Classic. I tried to explain why it was a waste but she insists it does something for her. I will just share your video as it was the only one I have watched where someone knew what they were talking about on the subject. Great Job!
+NewZona Rides Thanks! Well, in the grand scheme of things, it's only a couple of bucks. If it makes a rider feel better; then go for it. But you're right, on a number of machines, running a lower octane saves money without discounting the performance of the machine. Gas industry marketing has you believe (even simply by using terms like 'regular' and 'premium'. Back in the day it was just called 'ethyl', because it had some form of tetraethlyene; an octane additive, and folks knew your car either needed it or it didn't. Your car or truck ran on gas, diesel, or 'ethyl'.) that higher octane fuels are somehow 'better' when they really aren't. Unless your machine needs them. On most modern cars with knock sensors there IS an advantage. My car, for example, will pick up a few ponies on premium because the computer will advance timing to take advantage of it. Very, very few motorcycles contain this technology; if any. I'm actually not aware of motorcycles using an anti-knock sensor. Even bikes with o2 sensors won't be able to adjust for fuel octane.
+Romans Five|Eight According to the owner's manual, my old air-cooled HD required premium and that is what it always received. It's easy to imagine that an air-cooled motor with really large bores might have difficulty cooling its pistons while sitting in traffic on a very hot day, leading to potentially destructive pre-ignition. My current water-cooled Honda NC, however, stipulates regular and that is what it gets. Who better than the guys and gals who designed our bikes to tell us what to put in their tanks ?
I have a 2018 Acura RDX (V6 SOHC/VVT) and the manufacturer says that 91 octane is recommended but a minimum of 87 octane is ok. I learned from your video that 87 is fine but it will just run with slightly less HP. Thanks. I also have a 2012 Yamaha road star (1700cc pushrod engine) that I do run 91 octane per Yamaha.
I have just found your V logs and I think they are Great. I decided to give some Hopefully helpful insight on the octane ratings V Log. The Octane min, As you said, should always be used. But having a higher rating gives an extra measure of protection, If there happens to be a situation of high heat. During a high heat situation, any engine will experience detonation. I have worked in Speed shops that would warranty engine rebuilds we performed. The owners who experienced an overheat situation had repairs performed at our shop. All who used the highest octane fuel and synthetic oil, had no major repairs. All others, needed major tear-down and burned components replaced. So In my years of experience of repairing engines, I can say from what I have seen, that having the best synthetic oil and highest octane is like having an insurance policy for the unexpected high heat situations.
About ethanol, I haven't had any issues in my cars, but have had a lot of problems with my small equipment. Even though I was adding stabilizer (Sta-bil), every six months I had to rebuild my carbs. Finally started using aviation fuel bought from local airport, and haven't had any more problems. Now that I'm riding and leaving my car parked, I'm starting to worry about it. Time to do some research on what stabilizer will be effective, because Sta Bil doesn't seem to work very good.
I have a 09 VTX 1300C Honda recommends 87 I have triedvup to 91..nobdesernable differancecwhat so ever either in power or fuel milage. Did add Hot Shot fuel additive cleaner / stabilizer it gave me a smoother performance well a little.bike seems to run a little better got it from Amsoil.anyway great video thanks !
cool info, thank you, BTW, I am using a dual moniter on my computer and was having fun tracking your trip on google earth.. cool bike videos, MO looks like a really nice state,.. great second best way to travel
Mostly good information, I would just like to point out one kinda big thing that you missed with ethanol. Ethanol is a solvent, which means that whenever you run that through your system, it eats away at any carbon build up in your gas line, in your carb, or in your engine and passes it through. It also deteriorates any plastic or rubber that it comes into contact with. This isn't a quick process, but over the lifetime of the vehicle, it creates a lot of unneeded wear and tear on the bike. This is why it will void your warranty with Ducati, since they use plastics for fuel tanks in order to keep weight down. I had to do a lot of research with this for a paper I wrote studying mechanical engineering.
When I first bought my 2001 Honda Shadow a couple of years ago, it would always run very rough until it warmed up. I switched to ethanol free gas and that problem almost completely cleared up within a week. There is an app called Pure Gas that can help find ethanol free gas. It is not 100% accurate, but it is still very good.
Andy Madison Yep, unfortunately; the nearest one is about 70 miles away. Carbed bikes are especially susceptible to the moisture that ethanol draws in. While it isn't enough to harm your bike (as long as it's kept fresh and properly stored), the moisture will hurt the fuels ability to atomize, which is what your bike needs to run smoothly. Fuel injection masks these problems because the fuel system is under pressure; so it atomizes when cold, when full of moisture, when stale, etc. If you have to run fuel with ethanol, try Seafoam. It'll help prevent the moisture from being drawn in and help handle the moisture that is already there.
It's getting hard to find fuel with no ethanol. I use gas with ethanol in my car, but my bikes, movers and other small equipment that sit for extended periods should avoid ethanol, because it tends to attract moisture. My cruiser runs on regular, and my Yamaha fj09 should run on premium, but it's electronics compensate for the use of regular, but the mileage riggers.
Very good video with great explanations. Now do one on motor oil to get everyone really arguing! LOL! That said, small motors benefit dramatically from the high octane (no ethanol) as they tend to sit for long periods. Totally agree. If I am going to run something continually, I tend to just fill with regular. If it is going to sit, it will be stabilized premium. Here in Saskatchewan, premium fuel typically does not have any ethanol in it, thus is the way to go.
I experimented with 87 and 89 octane in my '06 Vulcan 900 Classic LT. I ran 5 tanks of 87 octane and averaged 39 mpg and had a lot of popping on deceleration and after running 5 tanks of 89 octane I averaged 44 mpg with very little popping. Needless to say all I run now is 89 octane.
At the pump the fuel is blended as far as I am aware ..high octane is blended with the regular through the pump ...you may not be getting actual 91 depending on the honesty of the fuel station. I would like to see some testing of random gas stations to see if the fuel is actually 91 ..have a feeling your paying the higher price for 87 !
Wow you guys have a lot of petrol options. All we have is 91RON, 95RON, and 98RON, as well as E10 at usually 94RON. I don't use E10 mainly due to the hydroscopic nature of the ethanol, but more because it's a false economy. I always use what the manufacturer recommends, or higher if the recommended octane petrol isn't available at the petrol station I'm using at the time.
Here in the U.S. it varies based on what part of the country you're in. 87, 89 and 91 (R+M/2) are most common. Some places will have 87, 91 and 93. Often they'll only actually have two grades (87 and 91 or 87 and 93) and will 'mix' the two to create mid grade. On my bike, which requires 91 R+M/2, I just run whatever the highest option is the station has; either 91 or 93. In most U.S. states; it's all E10. It's tough to find non-ethanol fuel. Which is especially frustrating for winter storage. Even though I ride my bike most of the winter; my lawn mower and leaf blower won't be used at all during the winter, and so I have to make sure to use fuel stabilizers that handle the issue of water, as you say; because of the hydroscopic nature of the ethanol.
The difference in fuel requirements between your 1700 and your old 900 is almost certainly due to the bigger bore diameters on the 1700. A bigger bore places the center of the pistons father away from the walls of the cylinders and the cooling water and/or air., therefore the pistons tend to remain hotter than in an engine with smaller bores. Btw, most of the imported oil in your country comes from Canada, not the Middle-East.
Bioetanol has octane 110 RON. I have flexfuelauto and I can run with 100% bioetanol. Actually it runs so much better with etanol. It has at least 20% more power and so much torque. Etanol allows so much more boost. Compression ratio with 100% etanol can be around 15.5-16:1. Etanol also burns fully clean and there is no carbon build up at all. Catalyst or is not needed with etanol. Etanol cools down engine and allows more oxygen to enter combustion chamber and it has oxygen in the fuel also. Bioetanol also reduces CO2 emissions by 86%. Some fuel filters doesn't like etanol but etanol is like cleaning solvent and doesn't need same kind of filters as gasoline.
I ride an 1996 ex military Harley Davidson MT 350. The engine is in a very low state of tune, so i just wack whichever petrol is available in it and it seems happy enough :) personally though if i had another bike i would just stick as close to what the manual asks for.
+Lord Janner You're probably fine! On a hot day, in traffic, with 'regular' fuel it's possible to develop some pinging. If that happens, you should really consider going with a higher grade.
Quite possibly, though not sure if it's going to get hot enough here in the drizzly uk to find out haha I'm sure i'll learn a lesson when i visit Spain with it for a few days next year :P
gregalabama Glad it worked out for you! I still recommend going with the manufacturers recommendation. It's an awfully pricey gamble over what is, ultimately, a dollar or two difference per tank.
up here in canada we only have 91 most places . I run it in my bike as it does ping on the lower stuff . I don't like ethanol but have no choice as all our fuel has it .. it absorbs water put to the point it is then shit .. it is ok when I am riding all the time but when it sits for 5 or 6 months in the winter I have to add fuel stabalizer etc to fight this from happening
Octane is dictated by the Compression Ratio. The engine will only use what the ratio will allow, the higher ratio requires higher octane and is no power booster. I think the Honda Goldwing has the knock sensor. And the GW will get poorer fuel mileage with the higher octane. As for ethanol it is alcohol and is corrosive and if left sitting will develop separation and will damage the fuel system for keep those wheels rolling or use a stabilizer.
Ethanol isn't corrosive or significantly acidic; but it does absorb water, and the water is what can lead to some problems down the road. Using a fuel stabilizer when storing the bike for any length of time will solve that issue. Ethanol isn't great, but it isn't as bad as various internet myths suggest it is.
All the gas stations around here only have ethanol in the cheapest super unleaded gas. The main reason is because of all the ski boats on the lakes around here that can't take ethanol. Your Kawasaki is new, with fuel injection I assume, and it seems to handle ethanol just fine. My friend that runs a classic bike shop tells me that in my older carborated bike I shouldn't run ethanol, based on his many years of experience with bikes. Your thoughts?
Alex Dalziel Ethanol draws moisture and causes the fuel to go bad quicker; (in addition to reducing performance). Engines require a fine mist of atomized fuel to work. Carbs handle this with 'jets' that use pressures in the engine to draw fuel. They don't work well when cold or when the fuel is not fresh. So ethanol can cause clogging and poor performance. However, if the fuel is burned quickly (not left for two weeks in a tank; purchase fuel from busier gas stations), the owner probably won't notice a difference. Here in my part of Missouri, there is no ethanol-free fuel. Plenty of guys with carbs are doing just fine year after year, provided they ride it enough AND use a good fuel stabilizer in their fuel when storing. Fuel injection is a little less sensitive because the fuel is pressurized and then shot through an injector. This is why FI bikes run smoother, make more power and start easier when cold. It's also why they can handle fuel that isn't the freshest. Though a clogged injector is a costly repair; so I highly recommend owners of FI bikes take the same care in using a good fuel stabilizer during any period of storage or infrequent riding. Most of the time though, with FI, a bit of varnished fuel will just be forced out by the fuel pump, in the same way a can of aerosolized carb cleaner would force it out when sprayed into a carbs jets. The rider will never even know they let their fuel go bad. There really is no GOOD reason to choose the ethanol fuel over the non-ethanol if it's an option. Perhaps cost, but it's probably wiped out by the increased fuel economy and performance of non-ethanol fuel.
I dont have a brand preference for fuel. Except I do not buy gas for my bike at Kroger (grocery store if ya dont know). I believe I get a noticeable a loss of mpg in my truck and car. Think there might be "water" to cut the fuel and if that is the case I do not want to run my HD on it. Its usually the same price as Citgo or McClures, so why take the risk? Anyway, enjoy your VLOG's. Keep em coming.
We fill up with gas in the truck and in my Jimmy once a month at Kroger. Usually by then we have enough fuel points to take .90 cents to a dollar off a gallon. (Up to 35 gallons) If we need to put more in, we go somewhere else.
+Josh Harper (VapingGraphicDesigner) Thanks for watching, Josh! I really appreciate all of my subscribers, especially because it gives me an opportunity to get lots of feedback! I hope to see more comments from you in the future. I like your logo!
I was this close to hitting the subscribe and bell button. But as you said many times your opinion, is going to cause someone some engine issues. Let’s do a little bit of research before we start spouting off our opinions LOL
My Chief Vintage, like a lot of bikes, require 93 Octane. The only non ethanol fuel available is 90 Octane. I listened carefully to what you said and understand but would the 90 be problematic?
The Chief Vintage requires 91 Octane (R+M/2), not 93. It's absolutely fine to run 93, but it should be noted that it isn't required. I would run a higher octane over a lower octane fuel without ethanol. You should never run a lower octane than the manufacturer recommends. Ethanol has a very high octane, so it's often blended with higher octane fuels for that reason. Ethanol blends of 10% or less are not harmful to your engine. It's perfectly fine to use. It's just that ethanol can attract moisture; so care should be used when storing a bike with an ethanol blend fuel for a few months. And Ethanol has less specific energy (isp) than straight gasoline, so you'll have somewhat reduced fuel economy and performance. But, if an Ethanol blend is all you have available; then by all means, feel free to use it.
Romans Five|Eight Wow, dealership misinformed me. Still, my options are 87, 89 and 93. Non ethanol is 90. Anyway, thank you for the great info, hope you have a blessed day. God bless you and yours. Ride safe!
There's little standardization to dealerships and how they inform customers. It's always best to review the Motorcycle Owners Manual. Dealerships and even dealer mechanics can sometimes be the most pervasive purveyors of myth and mistruth in the motorcycle world.
GSX 750 F (AK1113) High octane makes the engine knocking, Ideal Standard Super works as it should, E10 slightly lowers performance and worsens the mpg, but because it's cheaper it pretty much the same cost per distance, however: E10 makes the engine run very smooth which is nice for touring.
Hey John, I have a question for you about the vaquero. I was wondering if you're experiencing the same thing I am on my bike. Do you get some very noticeable vibration in fourth and fifth gear under load around 2000 rpm? I am just trying to figure out whether or not this is normal? If you could tell me what you think or if your bike seems really smooth or no,i would greatly appreciate it!
+Scott Finn Yeah, that's a little low, believe it or not. Kawasaki engines like to spin. When you get that vibration under load that generally means you're in too high of a gear. Let it spin! My Vaquero is smoothest around 2500~3000 rpm's.
Hey I've been watching you vids for a long time since I'm planning on buying a Vaquero within the next couple of months. I just had two questions, first is it possible for the bags to come off on the Vaquero, and if so would you be able to take a pic of the bike with the bags off if you have time. And also what is your opinion on fuel additives such as Marvels Mystery Oil. Thanks.
+Brandon Seiler Hi Brandon. The bags do come off for cleaning, quite easily, but you won't want to ride without them. Storing them without getting damaged will be tricky, and without the bags there are some brackets, suspension components, hard points and other things exposed that make it pretty ugly. If you buy a Vaquero, assume it'll always have the bags on it except for cleaning. When cleaning, or doing maintenance or repairs, the bags come off by removing two bolts and then lifting 'upwards'
+Brandon Seiler Oh, and as far as fuel additives; most are unnecessary. Gasoline is a solvent, Gasoline by ITSELF will clean parts; so things like fuel injector cleaners are, for the most part, completely useless. Seafoam and Sta-Bil are about the only additives I like because they are effective at removing moisture from fuel, and prevent fuel from varnishing; which can cause problems. The rest are doing essentially nothing. Octane boosters, for example, have been demonstrate to be completely useless.
100%! Higher octane just resists detonation. That's it. Unless your engine is specifically designed to take advantage of it, higher octane fuel won't do anything for you. And it's more than just compression ratio! My Vulcan 900 has the same compression ratio as my Vulcan 1700. But the 1700 requires 91 or better, the 900 only requires 87. My best guess is it's just heat. The 1700 engine because it makes so much more power generates a lot more heat and that heat leads to detonation.
hello I enjoy your blogs I have a 1998 honda shadow ace 750 I was told to run 93 octane in it I don't have a service manual is there any way that you can verify if that's the minimum octane that I should use I looked everywhere and I can't find what's the minimum octane once again I love you on TH-cam learned a lot from you thank you
+tomoth77 Not quite, there are some differences. But an engine needs to be rated for whatever level of ethanol you're running. Most can run "E10" or 10% Ethanol just fine; which is the only option in many parts of the country. But unless specifically rated, they shouldn't be running 15% or more. My car CAN run E85 which means it can run up to 85% ethanol; but I never do.
Ethanol is ethanol. 6 hydrogens, 2 carbons, one oxygen. It is nothing more than corn whiskey, or moon shine. It is terrible fuel. Go to youtube and see Jay Lenos garage and hear him rant about ethanol.
honestly I say fuck it and run 91/92 octane or whatever is the best gas/petrol grade the station serves but I wont ever buy from fred meyers which is similar to krogers . my lil dr200 feels like a giant mini tugboat :) and choked I can hear a difference in the speed of the "detonation" in it either slouching or running fully like an enduro and unchoked I have to say the very first second of rev matching for every gear shift feels a little more of a tug at the waist
Jeremiah Creed I believe it! Motorcycles and two-stroke lawn equipment are two different animals. As I can't get ethanol free fuel, I mix up my two-stroke fuel with Seafoam, which has helped me significantly.
flyguitarnihad In both situations; fuel stabilizers (I like Seafoam) should be used for any long term storage. It isn't necessary for fuel containing ethanol if you're going to be riding it. But fuel that will sit in the tank for more than two weeks, with or without ethanol, should be stabilized. If you know you aren't going to ride for a while, it might be beneficial to find non-ethanol fuel; but fuel stabilizer will do it's job in ethanol fuel too.
no turn signal what do you expect from a guy on a supermoto the stereotype is usually true (theyre all punks) I just throw 93 in the tank cause thats what Im supposed to do im not interested enough in the reasons why and all the science behind it....it just is what it is. However my wifes honda ctx700 is recommended the cheaper gas which is awesome when combined with its 80 mpg
+Rebelman476 Sure, it definitely won't hurt anything. But it doesn't have the advantages some people think it does (it doesn't make more power or run cleaner for example), but if your bike requires it you certainly shouldn't use anything less.
Romans Five|Eight Any Biker as me will tell ya that 93 is the best to use. it keeps the fire hotter and the spark plug cleaner. And it will last a lot longer also. I filled by tank up with diesel fuel and ran it for 4 day's. The harley shop told me i have the best preserved bike that pulls onto the lot now.
+Rebelman476 That's just not true. That's basically a big string of myths about high octane fuels. It's certainly not bad for you but, it's not what you think it is. Diesel fuel? Yikes.
I ride a 2009 Vulcan 900c. Just recently I switched to real gas! NO ETHANOL gasoline. I now have better performance and get better fuel mileage. I was getting 45 mpg, now I am getting better than 50 mpg, like 55-60 mpg on my tank! I am running High Octane, as recommended by Kawasaki, 91 or better. Note I am not saying this is the best, I am saying what is happening since my fuel switch. My riding style has not changed, but my gas has. So what does that mean to me? It's the gas! pure-gas.org/
***** Ethanol has less energy than gasoline, so it takes more of it to produce the same amount of power. So with E10 fuel, 10% of your fuel is low-energy. Ethanol does have a super high octane rating, and it's cheap; so mixing it with gasoline means cheaper fuel with a higher octane rating. But it's negated by it's low energy. So pure gasoline will definitely let you go farther on a tank. Unfortunately for me, there are no "pure gas" stations near me!
I ride an FJR1300 and we can run on 87 octane with no issues. I tend to stick with the major brands of gas and not go too much third party, I. E. Valero! With only 6 gallon gas tank I am refueling at about a quarter of a tank dry, putting 2-3 gallons of fuel is not as bad as filling up my Jeep. Great vid!
Shawn Kuse Yeah that's about what I do, 2-3 gallons each time. That's about when my low fuel light comes on.
The FJR is DESIGNED to run on regular octane gas. Out west, it will run happily on 85 octane.
I had planned to make a video just about the using premium fuel when you don't have to. I have a friend who insists on running premium fuel in a Kawai 900 Vulcan Classic. I tried to explain why it was a waste but she insists it does something for her. I will just share your video as it was the only one I have watched where someone knew what they were talking about on the subject. Great Job!
+NewZona Rides Thanks! Well, in the grand scheme of things, it's only a couple of bucks. If it makes a rider feel better; then go for it. But you're right, on a number of machines, running a lower octane saves money without discounting the performance of the machine.
Gas industry marketing has you believe (even simply by using terms like 'regular' and 'premium'. Back in the day it was just called 'ethyl', because it had some form of tetraethlyene; an octane additive, and folks knew your car either needed it or it didn't. Your car or truck ran on gas, diesel, or 'ethyl'.) that higher octane fuels are somehow 'better' when they really aren't. Unless your machine needs them.
On most modern cars with knock sensors there IS an advantage. My car, for example, will pick up a few ponies on premium because the computer will advance timing to take advantage of it. Very, very few motorcycles contain this technology; if any. I'm actually not aware of motorcycles using an anti-knock sensor. Even bikes with o2 sensors won't be able to adjust for fuel octane.
+Romans Five|Eight According to the owner's manual, my old air-cooled HD required premium and that is what it always received. It's easy to imagine that an air-cooled motor with really large bores might have difficulty cooling its pistons while sitting in traffic on a very hot day, leading to potentially destructive pre-ignition. My current water-cooled Honda NC, however, stipulates regular and that is what it gets. Who better than the guys and gals who designed our bikes to tell us what to put in their tanks ?
I have a 2018 Acura RDX (V6 SOHC/VVT) and the manufacturer says that 91 octane is recommended but a minimum of 87 octane is ok. I learned from your video that 87 is fine but it will just run with slightly less HP. Thanks. I also have a 2012 Yamaha road star (1700cc pushrod engine) that I do run 91 octane per Yamaha.
I have just found your V logs and I
think they are Great. I decided to give some Hopefully helpful
insight on the octane ratings V Log. The Octane min, As you said,
should always be used. But having a higher rating gives an extra
measure of protection, If there happens to be a situation of high
heat. During a high heat situation, any engine will experience
detonation. I have worked in Speed shops that would warranty engine
rebuilds we performed. The owners who experienced an overheat
situation had repairs performed at our shop. All who used the
highest octane fuel and synthetic oil, had no major repairs. All
others, needed major tear-down and burned components replaced.
So In my years of experience of
repairing engines, I can say from what I have seen, that having the
best synthetic oil and highest octane is like having an insurance
policy for the unexpected high heat situations.
+harmonycsr The cost of running higher octane fuel is pretty negligible; it's probably a good idea indeed.
About ethanol, I haven't had any issues in my cars, but have had a lot of problems with my small equipment. Even though I was adding stabilizer (Sta-bil), every six months I had to rebuild my carbs. Finally started using aviation fuel bought from local airport, and haven't had any more problems. Now that I'm riding and leaving my car parked, I'm starting to worry about it. Time to do some research on what stabilizer will be effective, because Sta Bil doesn't seem to work very good.
Jeremiah Creed Yeah two stroke stuff is especially sensitive to the moisture that ethanol soaks up
I have a 09 VTX 1300C Honda recommends 87 I have triedvup to 91..nobdesernable differancecwhat so ever either in power or fuel milage. Did add Hot Shot fuel additive cleaner / stabilizer it gave me a smoother performance well a little.bike seems to run a little better got it from Amsoil.anyway great video thanks !
cool info, thank you, BTW, I am using a dual moniter on my computer and was having fun tracking your trip on google earth.. cool bike videos, MO looks like a really nice state,.. great second best way to travel
Thanks man!
Mostly good information, I would just like to point out one kinda big thing that you missed with ethanol. Ethanol is a solvent, which means that whenever you run that through your system, it eats away at any carbon build up in your gas line, in your carb, or in your engine and passes it through. It also deteriorates any plastic or rubber that it comes into contact with. This isn't a quick process, but over the lifetime of the vehicle, it creates a lot of unneeded wear and tear on the bike. This is why it will void your warranty with Ducati, since they use plastics for fuel tanks in order to keep weight down.
I had to do a lot of research with this for a paper I wrote studying mechanical engineering.
Gasoline is also a solvent. The thing is, it's all about dillution. Ethanol at 10% or below is not harmful for plastics, even over time.
When I first bought my 2001 Honda Shadow a couple of years ago, it would always run very rough until it warmed up. I switched to ethanol free gas and that problem almost completely cleared up within a week. There is an app called Pure Gas that can help find ethanol free gas. It is not 100% accurate, but it is still very good.
Andy Madison Yep, unfortunately; the nearest one is about 70 miles away. Carbed bikes are especially susceptible to the moisture that ethanol draws in. While it isn't enough to harm your bike (as long as it's kept fresh and properly stored), the moisture will hurt the fuels ability to atomize, which is what your bike needs to run smoothly. Fuel injection masks these problems because the fuel system is under pressure; so it atomizes when cold, when full of moisture, when stale, etc.
If you have to run fuel with ethanol, try Seafoam. It'll help prevent the moisture from being drawn in and help handle the moisture that is already there.
It's getting hard to find fuel with no ethanol. I use gas with ethanol in my car, but my bikes, movers and other small equipment that sit for extended periods should avoid ethanol, because it tends to attract moisture. My cruiser runs on regular, and my Yamaha fj09 should run on premium, but it's electronics compensate for the use of regular, but the mileage riggers.
vac0002 Fuel stabilizer, like Sta-Bil or Seafoam, will do a good job of negating that moisture.
Very good video with great explanations. Now do one on motor oil to get everyone really arguing! LOL! That said, small motors benefit dramatically from the high octane (no ethanol) as they tend to sit for long periods. Totally agree. If I am going to run something continually, I tend to just fill with regular. If it is going to sit, it will be stabilized premium. Here in Saskatchewan, premium fuel typically does not have any ethanol in it, thus is the way to go.
saskcop Yep, where I live, Ethanol is in every grade of gas. Though there are places 60 or 70 miles away that have non-ethanol Premium.
I experimented with 87 and 89 octane in my '06 Vulcan 900 Classic LT. I ran 5 tanks of 87 octane and averaged 39 mpg and had a lot of popping on deceleration and after running 5 tanks of 89 octane I averaged 44 mpg with very little popping. Needless to say all I run now is 89 octane.
+Michael Lange Sounds good! The VN900 asks for a minimum of 87; but it's always great to experiment and find what works best for you!
At the pump the fuel is blended as far as I am aware ..high octane is blended with the regular through the pump ...you may not be getting actual 91 depending on the honesty of the fuel station. I would like to see some testing of random gas stations to see if the fuel is actually 91 ..have a feeling your paying the higher price for 87 !
Wow you guys have a lot of petrol options. All we have is 91RON, 95RON, and 98RON, as well as E10 at usually 94RON. I don't use E10 mainly due to the hydroscopic nature of the ethanol, but more because it's a false economy. I always use what the manufacturer recommends, or higher if the recommended octane petrol isn't available at the petrol station I'm using at the time.
Here in the U.S. it varies based on what part of the country you're in. 87, 89 and 91 (R+M/2) are most common. Some places will have 87, 91 and 93. Often they'll only actually have two grades (87 and 91 or 87 and 93) and will 'mix' the two to create mid grade. On my bike, which requires 91 R+M/2, I just run whatever the highest option is the station has; either 91 or 93.
In most U.S. states; it's all E10. It's tough to find non-ethanol fuel. Which is especially frustrating for winter storage. Even though I ride my bike most of the winter; my lawn mower and leaf blower won't be used at all during the winter, and so I have to make sure to use fuel stabilizers that handle the issue of water, as you say; because of the hydroscopic nature of the ethanol.
I didn't know all this about ethanol, nice learning experience. Thanks!
+ostrichanother You bet!
The difference in fuel requirements between your 1700 and your old 900 is almost certainly due to the bigger bore diameters on the 1700. A bigger bore places the center of the pistons father away from the walls of the cylinders and the cooling water and/or air., therefore the pistons tend to remain hotter than in an engine with smaller bores.
Btw, most of the imported oil in your country comes from Canada, not the Middle-East.
+CaptHollister Yep! It's more complex than just compression ratio.
Bioetanol has octane 110 RON. I have flexfuelauto and I can run with 100% bioetanol. Actually it runs so much better with etanol. It has at least 20% more power and so much torque. Etanol allows so much more boost. Compression ratio with 100% etanol can be around 15.5-16:1. Etanol also burns fully clean and there is no carbon build up at all. Catalyst or is not needed with etanol. Etanol cools down engine and allows more oxygen to enter combustion chamber and it has oxygen in the fuel also. Bioetanol also reduces CO2 emissions by 86%. Some fuel filters doesn't like etanol but etanol is like cleaning solvent and doesn't need same kind of filters as gasoline.
I ride with shorts and t-shirts all the time. Flame on!
just use what your manual says,if it says 91...then use 91 octane,always use what the manufacture says for extended life from the engine
I ride an 1996 ex military Harley Davidson MT 350. The engine is in a very low state of tune, so i just wack whichever petrol is available in it and it seems happy enough :) personally though if i had another bike i would just stick as close to what the manual asks for.
+Lord Janner You're probably fine! On a hot day, in traffic, with 'regular' fuel it's possible to develop some pinging. If that happens, you should really consider going with a higher grade.
Quite possibly, though not sure if it's going to get hot enough here in the drizzly uk to find out haha I'm sure i'll learn a lesson when i visit Spain with it for a few days next year :P
+Lord Janner Yeah, I'm sure that rain helps cool things down! Ha!
I only run the recommended octane in my motorcycle (87). Seems to work for me!
+SoopaBee If your manufacturer recommends 87, chances are, there will be few; if any, advantages to running a higher octane!
ran 87 octane on my 2000 wide glide for 150,000 miles. H-D said go for higher, I never did and never had a problem.
gregalabama Glad it worked out for you! I still recommend going with the manufacturers recommendation. It's an awfully pricey gamble over what is, ultimately, a dollar or two difference per tank.
up here in canada we only have 91 most places . I run it in my bike as it does ping on the lower stuff . I don't like ethanol but have no choice as all our fuel has it .. it absorbs water put to the point it is then shit .. it is ok when I am riding all the time but when it sits for 5 or 6 months in the winter I have to add fuel stabalizer etc to fight this from happening
my bike is a harley bagger so heats up more and pings
Octane is dictated by the Compression Ratio. The engine will only use what the ratio will allow, the higher ratio requires higher octane and is no power booster. I think the Honda Goldwing has the knock sensor. And the GW will get poorer fuel mileage with the higher octane. As for ethanol it is alcohol and is corrosive and if left sitting will develop separation and will damage the fuel system for keep those wheels rolling or use a stabilizer.
Ethanol isn't corrosive or significantly acidic; but it does absorb water, and the water is what can lead to some problems down the road. Using a fuel stabilizer when storing the bike for any length of time will solve that issue. Ethanol isn't great, but it isn't as bad as various internet myths suggest it is.
All the gas stations around here only have ethanol in the cheapest super unleaded gas. The main reason is because of all the ski boats on the lakes around here that can't take ethanol.
Your Kawasaki is new, with fuel injection I assume, and it seems to handle ethanol just fine. My friend that runs a classic bike shop tells me that in my older carborated bike I shouldn't run ethanol, based on his many years of experience with bikes. Your thoughts?
Alex Dalziel Ethanol draws moisture and causes the fuel to go bad quicker; (in addition to reducing performance). Engines require a fine mist of atomized fuel to work. Carbs handle this with 'jets' that use pressures in the engine to draw fuel. They don't work well when cold or when the fuel is not fresh. So ethanol can cause clogging and poor performance. However, if the fuel is burned quickly (not left for two weeks in a tank; purchase fuel from busier gas stations), the owner probably won't notice a difference. Here in my part of Missouri, there is no ethanol-free fuel. Plenty of guys with carbs are doing just fine year after year, provided they ride it enough AND use a good fuel stabilizer in their fuel when storing.
Fuel injection is a little less sensitive because the fuel is pressurized and then shot through an injector. This is why FI bikes run smoother, make more power and start easier when cold. It's also why they can handle fuel that isn't the freshest. Though a clogged injector is a costly repair; so I highly recommend owners of FI bikes take the same care in using a good fuel stabilizer during any period of storage or infrequent riding. Most of the time though, with FI, a bit of varnished fuel will just be forced out by the fuel pump, in the same way a can of aerosolized carb cleaner would force it out when sprayed into a carbs jets. The rider will never even know they let their fuel go bad.
There really is no GOOD reason to choose the ethanol fuel over the non-ethanol if it's an option. Perhaps cost, but it's probably wiped out by the increased fuel economy and performance of non-ethanol fuel.
I dont have a brand preference for fuel. Except I do not buy gas for my bike at Kroger (grocery store if ya dont know). I believe I get a noticeable a loss of mpg in my truck and car. Think there might be "water" to cut the fuel and if that is the case I do not want to run my HD on it. Its usually the same price as Citgo or McClures, so why take the risk? Anyway, enjoy your VLOG's. Keep em coming.
+Hazzardousmat Thanks! Indeed, if you notice a drop in MPH, that's certainly indicative of a problem.
We fill up with gas in the truck and in my Jimmy once a month at Kroger. Usually by then we have enough fuel points to take .90 cents to a dollar off a gallon. (Up to 35 gallons) If we need to put more in, we go somewhere else.
My new Suzuki GSF500 runs perfectly on the recommended octane which is 95. I have run higher and lower but the 95 is perfect.
who has 95 ?
it doses adjust the fuel-air mix.
higher octane prevents knocking.
First time watcher. New follower
+Josh Harper (VapingGraphicDesigner) Thanks for watching, Josh! I really appreciate all of my subscribers, especially because it gives me an opportunity to get lots of feedback! I hope to see more comments from you in the future. I like your logo!
"hey guys it's jon i just got gas"(Immediately thought he would or was farting) XD.
I was this close to hitting the subscribe and bell button. But as you said many times your opinion, is going to cause someone some engine issues. Let’s do a little bit of research before we start spouting off our opinions LOL
My Chief Vintage, like a lot of bikes, require 93 Octane. The only non ethanol fuel available is 90 Octane. I listened carefully to what you said and understand but would the 90 be problematic?
The Chief Vintage requires 91 Octane (R+M/2), not 93. It's absolutely fine to run 93, but it should be noted that it isn't required.
I would run a higher octane over a lower octane fuel without ethanol. You should never run a lower octane than the manufacturer recommends. Ethanol has a very high octane, so it's often blended with higher octane fuels for that reason.
Ethanol blends of 10% or less are not harmful to your engine. It's perfectly fine to use. It's just that ethanol can attract moisture; so care should be used when storing a bike with an ethanol blend fuel for a few months. And Ethanol has less specific energy (isp) than straight gasoline, so you'll have somewhat reduced fuel economy and performance. But, if an Ethanol blend is all you have available; then by all means, feel free to use it.
Romans Five|Eight Wow, dealership misinformed me. Still, my options are 87, 89 and 93. Non ethanol is 90. Anyway, thank you for the great info, hope you have a blessed day. God bless you and yours. Ride safe!
There's little standardization to dealerships and how they inform customers. It's always best to review the Motorcycle Owners Manual. Dealerships and even dealer mechanics can sometimes be the most pervasive purveyors of myth and mistruth in the motorcycle world.
Romans Five|Eight True that! And being that my nearly new Vintage didn’t come with an owners manual...
I still didn't learn anything here. What I want to know is: Has anyone that should be running super premium fuel every used 90 octane? No answers???
6:00 the subtlest ad I've ever heard on youtube.
+Conway79 Hehe. Too bad nobody paid me for it :(
GSX 750 F (AK1113) High octane makes the engine knocking, Ideal Standard Super works as it should, E10 slightly lowers performance and worsens the mpg, but because it's cheaper it pretty much the same cost per distance, however: E10 makes the engine run very smooth which is nice for touring.
Hey John, I have a question for you about the vaquero. I was wondering if you're experiencing the same thing I am on my bike. Do you get some very noticeable vibration in fourth and fifth gear under load around 2000 rpm? I am just trying to figure out whether or not this is normal? If you could tell me what you think or if your bike seems really smooth or no,i would greatly appreciate it!
+Scott Finn Yeah, that's a little low, believe it or not. Kawasaki engines like to spin. When you get that vibration under load that generally means you're in too high of a gear. Let it spin! My Vaquero is smoothest around 2500~3000 rpm's.
Thanks for the insight! I'll wind her out from now on!
Hey I've been watching you vids for a long time since I'm planning on buying a Vaquero within the next couple of months. I just had two questions, first is it possible for the bags to come off on the Vaquero, and if so would you be able to take a pic of the bike with the bags off if you have time. And also what is your opinion on fuel additives such as Marvels Mystery Oil. Thanks.
+Brandon Seiler Hi Brandon. The bags do come off for cleaning, quite easily, but you won't want to ride without them. Storing them without getting damaged will be tricky, and without the bags there are some brackets, suspension components, hard points and other things exposed that make it pretty ugly. If you buy a Vaquero, assume it'll always have the bags on it except for cleaning. When cleaning, or doing maintenance or repairs, the bags come off by removing two bolts and then lifting 'upwards'
+Brandon Seiler Oh, and as far as fuel additives; most are unnecessary. Gasoline is a solvent, Gasoline by ITSELF will clean parts; so things like fuel injector cleaners are, for the most part, completely useless. Seafoam and Sta-Bil are about the only additives I like because they are effective at removing moisture from fuel, and prevent fuel from varnishing; which can cause problems. The rest are doing essentially nothing. Octane boosters, for example, have been demonstrate to be completely useless.
Run the fuel your owners manual states - people seem to think higher octane = more power- it’s just not true
100%! Higher octane just resists detonation. That's it. Unless your engine is specifically designed to take advantage of it, higher octane fuel won't do anything for you.
And it's more than just compression ratio! My Vulcan 900 has the same compression ratio as my Vulcan 1700. But the 1700 requires 91 or better, the 900 only requires 87. My best guess is it's just heat. The 1700 engine because it makes so much more power generates a lot more heat and that heat leads to detonation.
hello I enjoy your blogs I have a 1998 honda shadow ace 750 I was told to run 93 octane in it I don't have a service manual is there any way that you can verify if that's the minimum octane that I should use I looked everywhere and I can't find what's the minimum octane once again I love you on TH-cam learned a lot from you thank you
+Charles Long Look online for the owners manual and go from there.
Ethanol is corn whiskey. Would you run corn whiskey in your bike?
+tomoth77 HELL YEA I WOULD. STRAIGHT FUCKING ALCOHOL.
And it would ruin your engine. Engines can't handle more than 15% alcohol (ethanol).
Wanna BET. Mine does cause i build my own engines. Don't talk if ya don't know anything.
+tomoth77 Not quite, there are some differences. But an engine needs to be rated for whatever level of ethanol you're running. Most can run "E10" or 10% Ethanol just fine; which is the only option in many parts of the country. But unless specifically rated, they shouldn't be running 15% or more. My car CAN run E85 which means it can run up to 85% ethanol; but I never do.
Ethanol is ethanol. 6 hydrogens, 2 carbons, one oxygen. It is nothing more than corn whiskey, or moon shine. It is terrible fuel. Go to youtube and see Jay Lenos garage and hear him rant about ethanol.
honestly I say fuck it and run 91/92 octane or whatever is the best gas/petrol grade the station serves but I wont ever buy from fred meyers which is similar to krogers . my lil dr200 feels like a giant mini tugboat :) and choked I can hear a difference in the speed of the "detonation" in it either slouching or running fully like an enduro and unchoked I have to say the very first second of rev matching for every gear shift feels a little more of a tug at the waist
Almost forgot, also because of the ethanol, my weed eater would start dripping gas about every six months from the fuel lines shrinking.
Jeremiah Creed I believe it! Motorcycles and two-stroke lawn equipment are two different animals. As I can't get ethanol free fuel, I mix up my two-stroke fuel with Seafoam, which has helped me significantly.
I use an ethanol treatment. No problems.
I was using standard Sta-bil fuel treatment. Didn't keep fuel lines from shrinking or carbs from gumming up.
Romans Five|Eight Do you still have to run fuel stabilizer if your running non-ehtanol?
flyguitarnihad In both situations; fuel stabilizers (I like Seafoam) should be used for any long term storage. It isn't necessary for fuel containing ethanol if you're going to be riding it. But fuel that will sit in the tank for more than two weeks, with or without ethanol, should be stabilized. If you know you aren't going to ride for a while, it might be beneficial to find non-ethanol fuel; but fuel stabilizer will do it's job in ethanol fuel too.
no turn signal what do you expect from a guy on a supermoto the stereotype is usually true (theyre all punks) I just throw 93 in the tank cause thats what Im supposed to do im not interested enough in the reasons why and all the science behind it....it just is what it is. However my wifes honda ctx700 is recommended the cheaper gas which is awesome when combined with its 80 mpg
Simple and easy without looking at this here. 93.
+Rebelman476 Sure, it definitely won't hurt anything. But it doesn't have the advantages some people think it does (it doesn't make more power or run cleaner for example), but if your bike requires it you certainly shouldn't use anything less.
Romans Five|Eight Any Biker as me will tell ya that 93 is the best to use. it keeps the fire hotter and the spark plug cleaner. And it will last a lot longer also. I filled by tank up with diesel fuel and ran it for 4 day's. The harley shop told me i have the best preserved bike that pulls onto the lot now.
+Rebelman476 That's just not true. That's basically a big string of myths about high octane fuels. It's certainly not bad for you but, it's not what you think it is.
Diesel fuel? Yikes.
I ride a 2009 Vulcan 900c. Just recently I switched to real gas! NO ETHANOL gasoline. I now have better performance and get better fuel mileage. I was getting 45 mpg, now I am getting better than 50 mpg, like 55-60 mpg on my tank! I am running High Octane, as recommended by Kawasaki, 91 or better. Note I am not saying this is the best, I am saying what is happening since my fuel switch. My riding style has not changed, but my gas has. So what does that mean to me? It's the gas! pure-gas.org/
***** Ethanol has less energy than gasoline, so it takes more of it to produce the same amount of power. So with E10 fuel, 10% of your fuel is low-energy. Ethanol does have a super high octane rating, and it's cheap; so mixing it with gasoline means cheaper fuel with a higher octane rating. But it's negated by it's low energy. So pure gasoline will definitely let you go farther on a tank. Unfortunately for me, there are no "pure gas" stations near me!
No gloves?
91
93
Premium. Period. Why buy a nice bike only to use shit fuel in it?
It's all about the almighty profits they make off ya