Voted for 2 days at same event, ideally Kona. Or current Kona/Nice alternating. Not keen on 70.3 style rotation unless we can get Kona as an in year race. It’s a pretty phenomenal venue.
Do you really need to go to Kona every year? Why not make it a bigger event (2 days) but..... lets say go to Kona once every 3 years or even every 5 years and use the other 4 to tour the World Champs? Make it... like the olympics in terms of preparation. You have 4 years to prepare for Kona with other venues every year where you can test yourself against the best in the world.
As with other sports like marathons, golf & tennis, make Kona, Nice & 2 other locations ‘majors’ events with similar points and prestige. One major per quarter. Build not taper. One of the majors could rotate locations. AGs can qualify and apply for Kona based on time/event/conditions. Like Boston, NYC, Chicago, London, etc - but adjusted for difficulty.
I qualified for this years WC and I’m glad it’s in Nice. If it was in Kona I more than likely couldn’t afford to go. Kona will always be a dream but giving athletes around the world the chance to compete more locally has to be the right option.
@@gtkona1608 The thing is, outside the US bubble, no one cares too much about Boston. Look at the last 10 years worth of records. London and Berlin are much more competitive marathons.
The history is the heart and soul of IRONMAN. That history started in Hawaii, and events on that island inspired many, including myself. Qualifying to Kona is the ultimate benchmark.
There is no single solution to the Kona issue that will satisfy everyone, but hopefully it will remain as an annual IM event forever. World champ venue or not, but hopefully every elite athlete and top age-groupers will get a chance in their careers to take on what is indisputably always going to be 'the' most iconic IM event.
Has anyone thought about men’s and women‘s in Kona on subsequent Saturdays to limit impact on local community? I think it was the Thursday closures that were particularly unpopular.
I actually like the fact the T100 and Ironman Pro Series have differentiated themselves. The two series compete with each other in terms of financials, but they don’t need to be exact overlaps of each other. I think we will be seeing more exciting races in both series since the pros have had a chance to see how each is run, and now athletes are more willing to double down in the series of their choice.
Never had an interest in Triathlon but your channel started popping up in my feed over Christmas. I’ve binge watched loads of videos. Love the challenges you guys get up to. Now subscribed.
James' opinion is because he has already raced in Kona, whoever is still chasing this dream understands that it should be every year in Kona, simple as that. 🇧🇷
James' suggestion is exactly what I think Ironman should do. By going back to Kona every x amount of years you make the event even more rare and special.
I raced Kona 23 and Nice 24. Both experiences were absolutely amazing. Kona is the most iconic, of course. But Nice was by far a more challenging bike course and a truly world class experience. I want to go back to both! Nice is an easier destination for east coast USA residents and Europeans, Hawaii probably easier for West coast USA and Oceania. So seems like a great combo to me!! As a female, I love the female only race, it’s about time for us!!
After Kona this year it was evident IM will stay at Kona. There is no doubt. It's THE triathlon event of the year, whether they made it tied to Kona or not, it doesn't change the fact that lots of people turn down slots for WC unless it's Kona. IM lost money in Nice this year and a for-profit business won't keep doing that. They know the money is in Kona and so do the athletes. Now, since the island won't allow two days that close together, what they do with it would be interesting, I still personally think it should be both genders same day Kona, but IM will have to not give out so many slots for it. Which makes it a true WC race, but I think they're too money driven to do that. Will be interesting to see what they decide.
Kona, as it was over 1 day. Kona is what everybody knows, even to those outside of Triathlon and it is aspirational and prestigious to so many more than alternate locations - in Australia at least, the roll downs don't go too deep at all, and they typically roll down from those who have already qualified. What I think is great, is having the World Champs, not only in such a brutal, beautiful and less travelled to location, but also it is the birthplace of Ironman racing giving a beginning and end of Triathlon moment. I appreciate that many look at it as a financial decision and some of those who have been are not keen to go back, but that shares the experience with those who are very keen to go there and enjoy the opportunity, and there is a long list of people who would love that. What I see in the 70.3 with rolling world champs however is a far lower level of interest in going, its a world champs without the same meaning. Everyone talks about Kona, nobody talks about 70.3 worlds. 70.3 qualifiers on the other hand regularly rolls down deep, I have seen it several times roll all the way down and then AG world champs slots subsequently have been reallocated due to no takers. I think IM know they need to control the Kona qualifiers and return it to as it was.
Not mine because it means many age-groupers would be penalized by this. For example, if you are 49 your chances to qualify or being high in the ranking in Kona are less than if you are 45. If it was every 4 years in Kona, our 49 years old guy would have to compete during 20 years before being the youngest in his age-group and so having better chances to qualify or finish with his best ranking in Kona.
@@pro-fondeurs But you can race Kona as a non-WC event... Not good? Now u give us Europeans a much cheaper alternative. Kona is superexpensive for us. I like it to have a WC somewhere else however I loved to race in Kona.
The limitations of participants naturally caps any WC. They should look to the marathon worlds model and try to get as many people in as possible. Qualifying standards but nothing impossible so only the top 1% make it in or maybe just get lucky with a bunch of roll down.
Last year at Lake Placid, at the awards ceremony Nice slots were left over and the announced asked if there were any women who just finished who wanted to go to Nice.
Who takes wedding day off? I certainly didn’t (just a four weeks ago). I thought that’s what the time between tea and dinner is for? An hour LIT on Zwift fits in there perfectly and I had to get changed anyway. Just before anyone says my wife must be very chilled about it, that’s because she is still half an hour faster on a MD and I have to catch up 😄
As triathletes from Asia Pac region, from what I conclude, most triathletes in this region wants to go to Kona not Nice. For e.g. in IM Busselton, the world champ slot rolled down to 60th position in 30-34 AG, this will never happen if the world champ is at Kona. you can see there's not much interest for Nice. Kona is still the goal and the race that inspire triathletes to do Ironman
Kona has a population of roughly 21,500 residents. IM 2022 ballooned from the usual 2000ish athletes to OVER 5000! Not including the multiple thousands more of industry, family, and supporters. They then closed the entire heart of town down, forcing many businesses to close on a business day (Thursday) and forcing all other residents to have massive delays trying to get to school, work etc. Suddenly, Ironman was benefitting at the cost of local businesses and residents. And you all are shocked that many Kona residents thought it might be a step too far? Reign in the greed, keep the World Champs an exclusive event, return to the old format of men/women on the same day (with a renewed focus on better coverage of and better athlete start stagger times for the pro women) and keep Kona, Kona. It wasn't broken til Ironman broke it.
People say Kona is where it started, but that's not quite true. The earliest Ironman events where on Oahu, with the run being the Honolulu Marathon course. I wonder if a return to there might be viable. Or maybe even alternating with Kona. Similarly, I wonder if Kona might be more amenable to a two-day event if it _wasn't_ every year. It could move around having two-day events in multiple locations, returning to Kona every 5 years or so. (And Oahu could be one of the other locations.) Very loosely related point, tying in to the recent GCN documentary "Carspiracy". I have a strong suspicion that the heavy car-dependency of America is a big part of the issue here. The Ironman events require closed roads, and if people are so dependent on driving that that significantly impacts their life (or even just they have the _perception_ that it might impact them), they're going to be less friendly to events like Ironman. If people could more easily walk or ride around their towns on good footpaths and bike paths with short distances to everything they need, I suspect they would be much more appreciative of the culture and activity brought by these major events.
Oh, James' idea of making it every 4 years like the Olympics is perfect. It raises questions around qualification, but I guess you could just end up with qualifying races being more competitive in years where people can go to Kona. Every 4 would allow something like a rotation between different areas in the "off" years. Oceania/Asia, Europe/Africa, and the Americas could each get a year for maximum accessibility to people in different regions.
Venue aside, I don't want to see one day race with both men and women. Before the separation, the coverage of the women's race was poor as a spectator from afar. As a participant, it was an amazing environment in a women's only event. It's hard being a pink swim cap in a sea of men at the start of events. The camaraderie of a women's only event was surely one of the most special things I experienced.
YES!!! As women we deserve our own event!! I think it will help get more women involved in Ironman distance. It takes more time than just 1-2 years to get the numbers. It’s so amazing racing with women, we are competitive but have a great camaraderie ❤️😁
@@gtkona1608 the issue of better coverage is complicated to solve when they're busy covering the men's race. This did happen, and fixing this problem would take media caring about the women's race, and we haven't proven media can do that at the same time as a men's race. Even when the women were in Kona at the same time, on 2 days, women were on Thursday, which is a weak day to watch a sport, when the men were on Saturday, the prime day. Women deserve their own day just like at the 70.3s.
And from my observation, after speaking and asking around, triathletes who have done Kona, are the one who are open to have Nice or other venue to host the IM world champ. Those who have not qualified before, Kona is still the dream not Nice..or any other venues
1. The women want their own race. 2. Fans and athletes want Hawaii every year. 3. Ironman wants to maximize Hawaii slots. 4. The locals want more money from Ironman. Ironman needs to buck up and make it happen.
Ironman 70.3, World Championships in Utah or Nice, women and men racing separately, downriver and flat courses…. WTC has done a fantastic job of watering down the iconic race and distance….
I believe that the backlog of athletes was because of COVID I don’t think there are as many qualifying athletes waiting for their turn to race as there were in 2022. I still think that Kona is always going to be the race people want to qualify for. So I think the best solution would be to go back to a single race in Kona. Having said that, having competed in an only woman championship in the last couple of races, changed my perspective for having a separate race for men and women.
If it’s not in Kona, then it doesn’t count. Have it over 2 days over 2 weekends First Sunday- the women or men. Next weekend- the gender that didn’t race the week prior
People that talk about ‘boring course ‘ in Kona make me laugh. First of all: are you coming to compete or to watch beautiful surroundings? It is the WC rather than a holiday vacation. Second: it is way more iconic than the majority of other courses. I’m wondering what % of people who vote against Kona qualify or close to qualify (and mean to put their best rather than come as tourist)
If Lionel did the T100 and slowed down to swim with Sam Long and they worked together assuming the draft legal scenario they would still finish the bike 6 minutes down or even more because all the guys at the front would be working together expending less energy and probably going faster.
I don't see an issue with a T-100 only distance. To me it is a better visual product. It's ok that some athletes cannot do certain promotions. I know we want everything under one roof.
I was lucky to race in Nice in 2023 and Kona 2024, cost wise, it was about the same travelling from NZ, (but a 17 hr flight to Dubai then a 7 hr flight to Nice, as apposed to a 9hr flight to Hawaii) at the post race diner at Kona, the local politician told us in the 3 weeks leading up to the race, the race generated $50M to the local economy.... could the island afford to loose that kind of money???
Nice is way more expensive for me and everyone I know. Been to Kona many times and do not have an issue with the price. They could double it and I would still go just because it is Ironman Hawaii.
IMO the AG world champs have to be in Kona every year. I think most people dream of Kona and even people who are not into triathlon know that race. Its simply so iconic. On the other hand the pro world champs should rotate and also males and females should get their own race. So one year: Women in kona, men somewhere else (not necessarily Nice). The next year the other way round. Then after these 2 years, move the location of the not Kona WC race. That way IM keeps the myth of Kona alive while also giving different types of pros a shot on winning a world title and not just those performing best in the heat and on rolling courses.
Let’s remember that if it were not for Covid and IM’s over-allocation of slots (which the cynic in me says was to make more money), this whole discussion about different venues would not be taking place. My suggestion: Leave Kona as Kona. World Champs. Every year. Men and Women together. Make sure broadcasts etc focus on the women equally rather than the tokenistic mentions we’ve had in the past whilst the live feed stayed with the men. And yes, fewer slots. It’s meant to be hard to qualify. Meanwhile, there are 170+ other IM branded races around the world if anyone is looking for variety.
Why not keep the same split format, but instead of always having Kona/Nice, they do Kona/elsewhere. That way, both female and male athletes get the traditional of Kona every other year, and the novelty of challenging courses every other year as well 😊
@@mimichka-9852 IM lost money in Nice this year with the women. Roll down slots were being turned down to the point IM literally was just asking people if they wanted to go. How is that a WC race now? I agree it's a beautiful course but only the top elite athletes should go and if you can't attract them, time to find a solution.
@ I honestly don’t know the numbers from the men’s race but if I had to guess they probably made more as there are statistically more men doing triathlons than women’s thus more people to compete for slots. I do agree 1k is crazy high price for sure but normal IM is $800 in the states so 20% more for WC isn’t crazy out of reach (although it is if people don’t go)
Assuming that there is sufficient local support from the local community in Kona IM should continue to hold an Ironman race there every year. However, it does not need to be a world championship. There are about 40 Ironman Distance scattered around the world, so the world championship can be rotated through the continents, Asia, Australia, North America, Europe and South America. Kona could be a world championship race once every four or five years. In the years that Kona is not a world championship it could be a qualification only race. The qualification criteria could be based on accumulating points based on age group finishing position over a number of IM sanctioned races. When you accumulated sufficient points, you could qualify. This gives the less successful athlete the opportunity to race at Kona.
7:53- I would definitely NOT put an ‘ironman’ distance or 70.3 distance event in the PTO series. Let Ironman be ironman, and their Pro series is great. Let THAT compliment- not compete - with the PTO series. However, I think the PTO need to kill the T-100 series off. What we saw last year - from only 7 events - is that it is unsustainable to expect ‘the best’ to race ‘the best’ in top form for every race over that distance spread across the whole year. That’s why a whole heap of the very best athletes are not taking T-100 contracts this year. Instead the PTO should diversify their events. If there are - for arguements sake - 10 PTO series races, by all means have 3-5 100km distance races. However, why not have a few ‘draft free’ standard distance races, at some of the iconic courses (think Chicago, London, New York, Noosa). Race ranger has now made draft free short course races viable again - for the first time in 30 years. Witness challenge Beijing last year. At the other end of the scale, why not incorporate the World Triathlon Long Course WC into the series (3km/120km/30km) and after Ironman abandon Nice hold that race there at the end of August each year? Why not include the Alpe D’Huez triathlon in the series? As mentioned, why not have the classic ‘Escape from Alcatraz’ distance in the series, instead of a 100km race? Better still, offer double points (or 1.5 times the standard points) for some of these iconic events, to ensure that at least a few times a year nearly all contracted athletes do in fact race each other?
Ironman will do whatever makes them the most money. They’re a business at the end of the day and need to make money. Understood. My thoughts… I think it should go back to one day and cap racers at 2500 or whatever it was. If they decide to move the WC…an Ironman race should stay in Kona, one day, 2500 racers, and be lottery w/ qualifying standards ONLY. (I.e. must be certain best qualifying time to race). Run it like Western States 100 and those big trail runs. I’m a Kona-only type of guy, but if Ironman were to roll something out like this IF WC moves from Kona, I’d still be excited to try to “qualify” in a lottery.
I agree with James with reference to the IM world championship. For age groupers like myself Kona although iconic is way too far and way too expensive. Two days back to back racing for the men and women at different locations returning to Kona every four years.
If Ironman chooses to go down the route of a points system (Pro series) then does it even make sense to crown the World Champion based on one race only? Sure, Kona is iconic but so is Monaco for F1. You don’t call the Monaco Grand Prix winner a WC, do you? Keep Kona on the calendar, maybe give it some extra points but at the end of the season give the WC title to the athlete that actually wins the championship.
You do realize the series is a combination of Half and full distance races? Ironman distance world champion in Kona. The race you need to do other Ironmans and get a slot.
Most Island nations would be envious of such a halo event.. If the locals are not interested, then they should move it. But keep both man/woman in the same event. Its a celebration of euality en inclusion.
Woah, woah, woah, wait a minute... with regard to "how did we get here?" What happened to the widely publicized party line that the split gender races were required to open up enough opportunities for women to race? That was a pretty important part of the history because if we didn't like that, we were gas lit for holding women back from participating in triathlon. It was a major part of the inclusion plan that was going to bring women to the sport in droves. Does anyone else remember that or something similar? Or am I delusional? Or both?
James you are 100% wrong. Kona is king. What about splitting the time of year? Men and women at Kona but different time of year, or maybe split the pros from age groupers time of year at Kona
If the people of Kona are so put out by the world championship, then let’s go on the open market! Have cities’s bid. Winner gets it just like the Olympics when Kona stops raking in all of the money they will start bidding and then we go back.
Funny how the 70.3 Ironman Worlds moves to a new venue every year and it's wonderful. Great competition and unique landscapes. Nobody complaining about that. If the Ironman women have to give up their own race to please the Kona fanatics, it's a huge loss. Putting all the eggs in the Kona basket is a loser. Kona could easily do what St. George decided to do = STOP hosting Tri events (after 2025) all together because the town felt the disruption was not worth revenue. If it's a true world championship, it should move every year. BUT not to synthetic places like T100 ie; Dubai......should be natural courses - plenty out there.🤔
70.3 didn't start until a few years ago and doesn't have the prestige of a pinnacle race being handed down for several generations now. That's why nobody complains.
I’m a subpar triathlete, but my wife is a champ! 🤩 I sherpa’d to both Kona and Nice, and they were absolutely lovely places. I think the world champs should rotate around the world and actually reflect the World in World Championship. Also, I love the women having focus and having their own event. The men can be aggressive and rude on course and I’ve lots of complaints from women, and nothing but praise when women have their own day. And last, I used to live on the Hawaiian islands and has a local myself, a highway being shut down is a massive inconvenience. Also not every tourist venue can host a ton of customers and will have to turn away people. Split it, move it around.
So moving around the globe, with locations pitching to host? A bit like they do for major events such as the football World Cup, Olympics etc? Sounds an interesting idea!
Rate James’ idea very highly! Kona champion = Olympic champion and each other year there is still a world champion. Would be great to see it tour around the world to more interesting destinations to get even more people hooked on this great sport. Just please not to UAE/Middle Eastern countries!!!
James idea is brilliant and what I always thought was a good solution because you can have a race there and cap it at how many participants can go so that it works with the community of Kona and have a pro only race in Kona. “Go chicken go” is Josh’s phrase for Ashley
I really think Ironman has now outgrown Hawaii, which is a shame but 🤷🏻♂️, the Women athletes deserve their own day and exposure (and the Hawaii residents don’t want a two day race), time to rotate the venue year to year like the 70.3 WC
James has the best and only solution that solves all the issues. I could even get a chance to do Kona, as I just want to do the course and not so concerned about it being a World Championships.
As for the T100 series: make it 100 miles instead of kilometers; 2 mile swim; 80 mile bike; 18 mile run. And better venues! (No more boring courses). As for IMWC: Make Kona THE WC but keep the alternating years for women and men and make it a 2 year qualifying period so the Championships for each gender is every 2 years. That way there’s a Kona race every year but 2 years between men’s and women’s championships.
Just like the world cup! Rotate the world championship around the world. One weekend start Saturday, finish Sunday. One year men Saturday, ladies Sunday then following year ladies first, men second.
@@thomasv.s.2826I personally love the way Sam , Taylor, Lucy, and others push and lead the bike. Not a fan of the pack lollygagers who sit in and don’t pull.
19:30 no. Terrible idea. My wife was first female age grouper at a race, and even had a bike escort following her and when she crossed the finish there was zero acknowledgment. It’s that lack of attention when the genders are together that sucks.
2 separate days at Kona would be best, but if the folks that live there don't like it, go somewhere else. The 70.3 World Championships aren't held at Kona. Ironman doesn't need Kona anymore.
I qualified for this years WC and I’m glad it’s in Nice. If it was in Kona I more than likely couldn’t afford to go. Kona will always be a dream but giving athletes around the world the chance to compete more locally has to be the right option.
What do you think IRONMAN should do with regard to the location of the World Championships? 🗺
Voted for 2 days at same event, ideally Kona. Or current Kona/Nice alternating. Not keen on 70.3 style rotation unless we can get Kona as an in year race. It’s a pretty phenomenal venue.
Do you really need to go to Kona every year? Why not make it a bigger event (2 days) but..... lets say go to Kona once every 3 years or even every 5 years and use the other 4 to tour the World Champs? Make it... like the olympics in terms of preparation. You have 4 years to prepare for Kona with other venues every year where you can test yourself against the best in the world.
( I wrote this before the end of the video hahahah)
As with other sports like marathons, golf & tennis, make Kona, Nice & 2 other locations ‘majors’ events with similar points and prestige. One major per quarter. Build not taper. One of the majors could rotate locations.
AGs can qualify and apply for Kona based on time/event/conditions. Like Boston, NYC, Chicago, London, etc - but adjusted for difficulty.
Stay off the island. Period.
I qualified for this years WC and I’m glad it’s in Nice. If it was in Kona I more than likely couldn’t afford to go. Kona will always be a dream but giving athletes around the world the chance to compete more locally has to be the right option.
Very good point. The cost of getting to Hawaii is so high for most athletes
Same
Would much rather go to France than Hawaii as well
Your criteria are cost and accessibility? Move the Boston Marathon to a city in Europe?
@@gtkona1608 The thing is, outside the US bubble, no one cares too much about Boston. Look at the last 10 years worth of records. London and Berlin are much more competitive marathons.
Just put James in charge of all things triathlon. I would love to see a series with multiple distances to see who the best triathlete really is.
maybe we need a vote, James to be unofficial head of Triathlon?
The history is the heart and soul of IRONMAN. That history started in Hawaii, and events on that island inspired many, including myself. Qualifying to Kona is the ultimate benchmark.
Spent my adult life dreaming of racing Kona. Never dreamt of racing Nice. I have been to both multiple times and Kona is Kona.
There is no single solution to the Kona issue that will satisfy everyone, but hopefully it will remain as an annual IM event forever. World champ venue or not, but hopefully every elite athlete and top age-groupers will get a chance in their careers to take on what is indisputably always going to be 'the' most iconic IM event.
Has anyone thought about men’s and women‘s in Kona on subsequent Saturdays to limit impact on local community? I think it was the Thursday closures that were particularly unpopular.
The locals are selfish. It is one week out of the year. It’s just blackmail, if Ironman pays them off they will do it.
I actually like the fact the T100 and Ironman Pro Series have differentiated themselves. The two series compete with each other in terms of financials, but they don’t need to be exact overlaps of each other. I think we will be seeing more exciting races in both series since the pros have had a chance to see how each is run, and now athletes are more willing to double down in the series of their choice.
Never had an interest in Triathlon but your channel started popping up in my feed over Christmas. I’ve binge watched loads of videos. Love the challenges you guys get up to.
Now subscribed.
hi! thanks for the comment and welcome on board! Thanks for subscribing too! 🫶
For me Kona is what makes Ironman so iconic. But, if the infrastructure is being outgrown, maybe it is time for change...
James' opinion is because he has already raced in Kona, whoever is still chasing this dream understands that it should be every year in Kona, simple as that. 🇧🇷
Will never accept a slot to Nice. Would accept a slot to Kona in a heartbeat.
If Kona was every 4 years that would be a death sentence for Ironman.
James' suggestion is exactly what I think Ironman should do. By going back to Kona every x amount of years you make the event even more rare and special.
Hoping to see LCB @ pro series and Kona 🎉
The T100 season is gonna be insane
I raced Kona 23 and Nice 24. Both experiences were absolutely amazing. Kona is the most iconic, of course. But Nice was by far a more challenging bike course and a truly world class experience. I want to go back to both! Nice is an easier destination for east coast USA residents and Europeans, Hawaii probably easier for West coast USA and Oceania. So seems like a great combo to me!! As a female, I love the female only race, it’s about time for us!!
After Kona this year it was evident IM will stay at Kona. There is no doubt. It's THE triathlon event of the year, whether they made it tied to Kona or not, it doesn't change the fact that lots of people turn down slots for WC unless it's Kona. IM lost money in Nice this year and a for-profit business won't keep doing that. They know the money is in Kona and so do the athletes.
Now, since the island won't allow two days that close together, what they do with it would be interesting, I still personally think it should be both genders same day Kona, but IM will have to not give out so many slots for it. Which makes it a true WC race, but I think they're too money driven to do that. Will be interesting to see what they decide.
James nailed the solution for Kona "problem"!!!
James nailed it 💪🏽
Kona, as it was over 1 day. Kona is what everybody knows, even to those outside of Triathlon and it is aspirational and prestigious to so many more than alternate locations - in Australia at least, the roll downs don't go too deep at all, and they typically roll down from those who have already qualified. What I think is great, is having the World Champs, not only in such a brutal, beautiful and less travelled to location, but also it is the birthplace of Ironman racing giving a beginning and end of Triathlon moment. I appreciate that many look at it as a financial decision and some of those who have been are not keen to go back, but that shares the experience with those who are very keen to go there and enjoy the opportunity, and there is a long list of people who would love that. What I see in the 70.3 with rolling world champs however is a far lower level of interest in going, its a world champs without the same meaning. Everyone talks about Kona, nobody talks about 70.3 worlds. 70.3 qualifiers on the other hand regularly rolls down deep, I have seen it several times roll all the way down and then AG world champs slots subsequently have been reallocated due to no takers. I think IM know they need to control the Kona qualifiers and return it to as it was.
James's suggestion of the Olympic format for kona is my favorite and my new opinion
+1 from me
Not mine because it means many age-groupers would be penalized by this. For example, if you are 49 your chances to qualify or being high in the ranking in Kona are less than if you are 45. If it was every 4 years in Kona, our 49 years old guy would have to compete during 20 years before being the youngest in his age-group and so having better chances to qualify or finish with his best ranking in Kona.
@@pro-fondeursI agree
@@pro-fondeurs But you can race Kona as a non-WC event... Not good? Now u give us Europeans a much cheaper alternative. Kona is superexpensive for us. I like it to have a WC somewhere else however I loved to race in Kona.
The limitations of participants naturally caps any WC. They should look to the marathon worlds model and try to get as many people in as possible. Qualifying standards but nothing impossible so only the top 1% make it in or maybe just get lucky with a bunch of roll down.
Kona slots are always full and hard to get. Nice slots just keeps rolling and rolling
It’s clear what athletes want. They want to go to Kona
Last year at Lake Placid, at the awards ceremony Nice slots were left over and the announced asked if there were any women who just finished who wanted to go to Nice.
Who takes wedding day off? I certainly didn’t (just a four weeks ago). I thought that’s what the time between tea and dinner is for? An hour LIT on Zwift fits in there perfectly and I had to get changed anyway. Just before anyone says my wife must be very chilled about it, that’s because she is still half an hour faster on a MD and I have to catch up 😄
Double session day with some HIT that night?
As triathletes from Asia Pac region, from what I conclude, most triathletes in this region wants to go to Kona not Nice. For e.g. in IM Busselton, the world champ slot rolled down to 60th position in 30-34 AG, this will never happen if the world champ is at Kona. you can see there's not much interest for Nice. Kona is still the goal and the race that inspire triathletes to do Ironman
The only one’s complaining are European and eastern USA. They can do Nice. We will do Kona.
James for triathlon president of the world!! 😅
you saw it here first!
Kona has a population of roughly 21,500 residents. IM 2022 ballooned from the usual 2000ish athletes to OVER 5000! Not including the multiple thousands more of industry, family, and supporters.
They then closed the entire heart of town down, forcing many businesses to close on a business day (Thursday) and forcing all other residents to have massive delays trying to get to school, work etc. Suddenly, Ironman was benefitting at the cost of local businesses and residents. And you all are shocked that many Kona residents thought it might be a step too far?
Reign in the greed, keep the World Champs an exclusive event, return to the old format of men/women on the same day (with a renewed focus on better coverage of and better athlete start stagger times for the pro women) and keep Kona, Kona.
It wasn't broken til Ironman broke it.
People say Kona is where it started, but that's not quite true. The earliest Ironman events where on Oahu, with the run being the Honolulu Marathon course. I wonder if a return to there might be viable. Or maybe even alternating with Kona.
Similarly, I wonder if Kona might be more amenable to a two-day event if it _wasn't_ every year. It could move around having two-day events in multiple locations, returning to Kona every 5 years or so. (And Oahu could be one of the other locations.)
Very loosely related point, tying in to the recent GCN documentary "Carspiracy". I have a strong suspicion that the heavy car-dependency of America is a big part of the issue here. The Ironman events require closed roads, and if people are so dependent on driving that that significantly impacts their life (or even just they have the _perception_ that it might impact them), they're going to be less friendly to events like Ironman. If people could more easily walk or ride around their towns on good footpaths and bike paths with short distances to everything they need, I suspect they would be much more appreciative of the culture and activity brought by these major events.
Oh, James' idea of making it every 4 years like the Olympics is perfect. It raises questions around qualification, but I guess you could just end up with qualifying races being more competitive in years where people can go to Kona.
Every 4 would allow something like a rotation between different areas in the "off" years. Oceania/Asia, Europe/Africa, and the Americas could each get a year for maximum accessibility to people in different regions.
1 day - 1 event. Only Kona.
Other locations could provide great experience but other organizations hold events.
Kona is about prestige. Preserve it.
Venue aside, I don't want to see one day race with both men and women. Before the separation, the coverage of the women's race was poor as a spectator from afar. As a participant, it was an amazing environment in a women's only event.
It's hard being a pink swim cap in a sea of men at the start of events. The camaraderie of a women's only event was surely one of the most special things I experienced.
YES!!! As women we deserve our own event!! I think it will help get more women involved in Ironman distance. It takes more time than just 1-2 years to get the numbers. It’s so amazing racing with women, we are competitive but have a great camaraderie ❤️😁
@@sarahday2292 Nope. The number of women in the sport has been more or less constant for decades.
Women have their own start. Better coverage is a simple matter of more cameras.
@@gtkona1608 the issue of better coverage is complicated to solve when they're busy covering the men's race. This did happen, and fixing this problem would take media caring about the women's race, and we haven't proven media can do that at the same time as a men's race. Even when the women were in Kona at the same time, on 2 days, women were on Thursday, which is a weak day to watch a sport, when the men were on Saturday, the prime day. Women deserve their own day just like at the 70.3s.
And from my observation, after speaking and asking around, triathletes who have done Kona, are the one who are open to have Nice or other venue to host the IM world champ. Those who have not qualified before, Kona is still the dream not Nice..or any other venues
I'm with James here. Maybe rotate back to Kona 4-5 years. This will still keep the heritage and make it even more iconic.
1. The women want their own race.
2. Fans and athletes want Hawaii every year.
3. Ironman wants to maximize Hawaii slots.
4. The locals want more money from Ironman.
Ironman needs to buck up and make it happen.
Ironman 70.3, World Championships in Utah or Nice, women and men racing separately, downriver and flat courses…. WTC has done a fantastic job of watering down the iconic race and distance….
I believe that the backlog of athletes was because of COVID I don’t think there are as many qualifying athletes waiting for their turn to race as there were in 2022. I still think that Kona is always going to be the race people want to qualify for. So I think the best solution would be to go back to a single race in Kona. Having said that, having competed in an only woman championship in the last couple of races, changed my perspective for having a separate race for men and women.
If it’s not in Kona, then it doesn’t count.
Have it over 2 days over 2 weekends
First Sunday- the women or men.
Next weekend- the gender that didn’t race the week prior
People that talk about ‘boring course ‘ in Kona make me laugh. First of all: are you coming to compete or to watch beautiful surroundings? It is the WC rather than a holiday vacation. Second: it is way more iconic than the majority of other courses. I’m wondering what % of people who vote against Kona qualify or close to qualify (and mean to put their best rather than come as tourist)
Kona is not boring. If you think this, then you have not been there.
@ i raced it 5 times and I didn’t say ´boring’ (if you read it and also understand). That’s some comments I saw on ST that say that
@@ultraman72I am agreeing with you. I have been there many times and will keep going back.
Tri-spy gotta be mr. big blu, Christian Blummenfelt
If Lionel did the T100 and slowed down to swim with Sam Long and they worked together assuming the draft legal scenario they would still finish the bike 6 minutes down or even more because all the guys at the front would be working together expending less energy and probably going faster.
I don't see an issue with a T-100 only distance. To me it is a better visual product. It's ok that some athletes cannot do certain promotions. I know we want everything under one roof.
Personally I would love if the OG Oahu IRONMAN could be revived as a world championship event, logistics aside
I was lucky to race in Nice in 2023 and Kona 2024, cost wise, it was about the same travelling from NZ, (but a 17 hr flight to Dubai then a 7 hr flight to Nice, as apposed to a 9hr flight to Hawaii) at the post race diner at Kona, the local politician told us in the 3 weeks leading up to the race, the race generated $50M to the local economy.... could the island afford to loose that kind of money???
What about LCB in T100?? 🤔
Tri Spy - The Kona Dragon Big Blu 23:00
Tri-Spy: Jackie Hering 🧐
I think it should change destinations make it easier for people to get to, as KONA is usually the most expensive for everyone. Run it over 2 days
Nice is way more expensive for me and everyone I know. Been to Kona many times and do not have an issue with the price. They could double it and I would still go just because it is Ironman Hawaii.
Trispy: flea the bassguitar player
Not reporting on Laidlow's retirement and move to Hyrox?
IMO the AG world champs have to be in Kona every year. I think most people dream of Kona and even people who are not into triathlon know that race. Its simply so iconic. On the other hand the pro world champs should rotate and also males and females should get their own race. So one year: Women in kona, men somewhere else (not necessarily Nice). The next year the other way round. Then after these 2 years, move the location of the not Kona WC race.
That way IM keeps the myth of Kona alive while also giving different types of pros a shot on winning a world title and not just those performing best in the heat and on rolling courses.
Let’s remember that if it were not for Covid and IM’s over-allocation of slots (which the cynic in me says was to make more money), this whole discussion about different venues would not be taking place. My suggestion:
Leave Kona as Kona.
World Champs. Every year.
Men and Women together. Make sure broadcasts etc focus on the women equally rather than the tokenistic mentions we’ve had in the past whilst the live feed stayed with the men.
And yes, fewer slots.
It’s meant to be hard to qualify.
Meanwhile, there are 170+ other IM branded races around the world if anyone is looking for variety.
What percentage of participants are male? What percentage of viewers are male? Would NASCAR or Formula One be any different?
Perfectly said!
Why not keep the same split format, but instead of always having Kona/Nice, they do Kona/elsewhere. That way, both female and male athletes get the traditional of Kona every other year, and the novelty of challenging courses every other year as well 😊
I think Nice is one of the most beautiful IM race and challenging Bike section
@@mimichka-9852 IM lost money in Nice this year with the women. Roll down slots were being turned down to the point IM literally was just asking people if they wanted to go. How is that a WC race now? I agree it's a beautiful course but only the top elite athletes should go and if you can't attract them, time to find a solution.
@@adamreebs oh. I didn’t know. Did they loose money in 2023 with the men. The price is also an issue: 1000€ for a bib is crazy expensive
@ I honestly don’t know the numbers from the men’s race but if I had to guess they probably made more as there are statistically more men doing triathlons than women’s thus more people to compete for slots. I do agree 1k is crazy high price for sure but normal IM is $800 in the states so 20% more for WC isn’t crazy out of reach (although it is if people don’t go)
Assuming that there is sufficient local support from the local community in Kona IM should continue to hold an Ironman race there every year. However, it does not need to be a world championship.
There are about 40 Ironman Distance scattered around the world, so the world championship can be rotated through the continents, Asia, Australia, North America, Europe and South America. Kona could be a world championship race once every four or five years.
In the years that Kona is not a world championship it could be a qualification only race. The qualification criteria could be based on accumulating points based on age group finishing position over a number of IM sanctioned races. When you accumulated sufficient points, you could qualify. This gives the less successful athlete the opportunity to race at Kona.
Without WC status who exactly would want to go?
7:53- I would definitely NOT put an ‘ironman’ distance or 70.3 distance event in the PTO series. Let Ironman be ironman, and their Pro series is great. Let THAT compliment- not compete - with the PTO series. However, I think the PTO need to kill the T-100 series off. What we saw last year - from only 7 events - is that it is unsustainable to expect ‘the best’ to race ‘the best’ in top form for every race over that distance spread across the whole year. That’s why a whole heap of the very best athletes are not taking T-100 contracts this year.
Instead the PTO should diversify their events. If there are - for arguements sake - 10 PTO series races, by all means have 3-5 100km distance races. However, why not have a few ‘draft free’ standard distance races, at some of the iconic courses (think Chicago, London, New York, Noosa). Race ranger has now made draft free short course races viable again - for the first time in 30 years. Witness challenge Beijing last year. At the other end of the scale, why not incorporate the World Triathlon Long Course WC into the series (3km/120km/30km) and after Ironman abandon Nice hold that race there at the end of August each year? Why not include the Alpe D’Huez triathlon in the series? As mentioned, why not have the classic ‘Escape from Alcatraz’ distance in the series, instead of a 100km race? Better still, offer double points (or 1.5 times the standard points) for some of these iconic events, to ensure that at least a few times a year nearly all contracted athletes do in fact race each other?
Ironman will do whatever makes them the most money. They’re a business at the end of the day and need to make money. Understood.
My thoughts… I think it should go back to one day and cap racers at 2500 or whatever it was.
If they decide to move the WC…an Ironman race should stay in Kona, one day, 2500 racers, and be lottery w/ qualifying standards ONLY. (I.e. must be certain best qualifying time to race). Run it like Western States 100 and those big trail runs.
I’m a Kona-only type of guy, but if Ironman were to roll something out like this IF WC moves from Kona, I’d still be excited to try to “qualify” in a lottery.
Tryspy - Flora Duffy??
Tri Spy: Lotte Wilms on Pro Series podium
Tri Spy: Lotte Wilms
Are there other locations in Hawaii that could support a WC?
The route could possibly be altered but there will always be people who disagree.It is certainly a great topic!
@@gtnI was broadening it up to anywhere in Hawaii. There are multiple islands!
It feels like the T100 😊qualifiers are not necessarily the best
Tri Spy - Ruth Astle
My black GTN swim cap perished this morning 😔 but no black ones on website anymore say whaaat
I agree with James with reference to the IM world championship. For age groupers like myself Kona although iconic is way too far and way too expensive. Two days back to back racing for the men and women at different locations returning to Kona every four years.
Tri spy Lotte Wilms. Possibly at pro series podium?
I think they should change the ever year to give a different course for different races not drag strips maybe hilly course?
Tri-Spy - Lotte Wilms?
If Ironman chooses to go down the route of a points system (Pro series) then does it even make sense to crown the World Champion based on one race only? Sure, Kona is iconic but so is Monaco for F1. You don’t call the Monaco Grand Prix winner a WC, do you? Keep Kona on the calendar, maybe give it some extra points but at the end of the season give the WC title to the athlete that actually wins the championship.
You do realize the series is a combination of Half and full distance races? Ironman distance world champion in Kona. The race you need to do other Ironmans and get a slot.
Why not have the IM championship on Lanzarote if Kona doesn't want it?
Ironman Hawaii is the shit. Many people and businesses there want it.
It's often said to be a course that closely resembles Kona, plus Lanzarote has the infrastructure to host the event
I ran a 5k on my wedding day
Most Island nations would be envious of such a halo event.. If the locals are not interested, then they should move it. But keep both man/woman in the same event. Its a celebration of euality en inclusion.
Woah, woah, woah, wait a minute... with regard to "how did we get here?" What happened to the widely publicized party line that the split gender races were required to open up enough opportunities for women to race? That was a pretty important part of the history because if we didn't like that, we were gas lit for holding women back from participating in triathlon. It was a major part of the inclusion plan that was going to bring women to the sport in droves. Does anyone else remember that or something similar? Or am I delusional? Or both?
James you are 100% wrong. Kona is king. What about splitting the time of year? Men and women at Kona but different time of year, or maybe split the pros from age groupers time of year at Kona
This venue debate is so boring...
If the people of Kona are so put out by the world championship, then let’s go on the open market! Have cities’s bid. Winner gets it just like the Olympics when Kona stops raking in all of the money they will start bidding and then we go back.
Zero interest in nice or any place other than Kona
Funny how the 70.3 Ironman Worlds moves to a new venue every year and it's wonderful. Great competition and unique landscapes. Nobody complaining about that.
If the Ironman women have to give up their own race to please the Kona fanatics, it's a huge loss. Putting all the eggs in the Kona basket is a loser. Kona could easily do what St. George decided to do = STOP hosting Tri events (after 2025) all together because the town felt the disruption was not worth revenue.
If it's a true world championship, it should move every year. BUT not to synthetic places like T100 ie; Dubai......should be natural courses - plenty out there.🤔
70.3 didn't start until a few years ago and doesn't have the prestige of a pinnacle race being handed down for several generations now. That's why nobody complains.
I’m a subpar triathlete, but my wife is a champ! 🤩
I sherpa’d to both Kona and Nice, and they were absolutely lovely places. I think the world champs should rotate around the world and actually reflect the World in World Championship. Also, I love the women having focus and having their own event. The men can be aggressive and rude on course and I’ve lots of complaints from women, and nothing but praise when women have their own day.
And last, I used to live on the Hawaiian islands and has a local myself, a highway being shut down is a massive inconvenience. Also not every tourist venue can host a ton of customers and will have to turn away people.
Split it, move it around.
So moving around the globe, with locations pitching to host? A bit like they do for major events such as the football World Cup, Olympics etc? Sounds an interesting idea!
Rate James’ idea very highly! Kona champion = Olympic champion and each other year there is still a world champion. Would be great to see it tour around the world to more interesting destinations to get even more people hooked on this great sport. Just please not to UAE/Middle Eastern countries!!!
James idea is brilliant and what I always thought was a good solution because you can have a race there and cap it at how many participants can go so that it works with the community of Kona and have a pro only race in Kona.
“Go chicken go” is Josh’s phrase for Ashley
I really think Ironman has now outgrown Hawaii, which is a shame but 🤷🏻♂️, the Women athletes deserve their own day and exposure (and the Hawaii residents don’t want a two day race), time to rotate the venue year to year like the 70.3 WC
Single day Kona was perfectly fine. Exposure for women was higher as males watched both professionals race.
James, great idea. Vote James for president!
James has the best and only solution that solves all the issues. I could even get a chance to do Kona, as I just want to do the course and not so concerned about it being a World Championships.
A 200 K race would be cool just double everything!
Tri spy Lotte willms
As for the T100 series: make it 100 miles instead of kilometers; 2 mile swim; 80 mile bike; 18 mile run. And better venues! (No more boring courses). As for IMWC: Make Kona THE WC but keep the alternating years for women and men and make it a 2 year qualifying period so the Championships for each gender is every 2 years. That way there’s a Kona race every year but 2 years between men’s and women’s championships.
Just like the world cup! Rotate the world championship around the world. One weekend start Saturday, finish Sunday. One year men Saturday, ladies Sunday then following year ladies first, men second.
Ironman/Kona/Nice/World Championships zzzzzzzzzz 😴
AND make T100 draft legal so we get to see proper tactical racing!
Draft legal would end the T100
Draft legal racing is boring. I don’t want to watch a running race in triathlon.
You’re probably right 😊 Has draft legal racing ever been tested over longer than OD you think ?
@@thomasv.s.2826I do think that Ironman needs to go to 20m for the pro’s. 20m for age groupers would be very hard.
@@thomasv.s.2826I personally love the way Sam , Taylor, Lucy, and others push and lead the bike. Not a fan of the pack lollygagers who sit in and don’t pull.
19:30 no. Terrible idea.
My wife was first female age grouper at a race, and even had a bike escort following her and when she crossed the finish there was zero acknowledgment. It’s that lack of attention when the genders are together that sucks.
Are you saying women would only get attention from spectators if there were no men to distract?
2 separate days at Kona would be best, but if the folks that live there don't like it, go somewhere else. The 70.3 World Championships aren't held at Kona. Ironman doesn't need Kona anymore.
So it's time to move away from tradition?
Many people who live there have no problem with two days. It is one week a year!
I qualified for this years WC and I’m glad it’s in Nice. If it was in Kona I more than likely couldn’t afford to go. Kona will always be a dream but giving athletes around the world the chance to compete more locally has to be the right option.
I assume you are in Europe?