1. You can't break unity. When doing two or more motors, any motor doing regenerative braking would add more load to a motor pushing the car at the same time. With motors less than 100% efficient, this would drag down range and increase tire wear. Dual motor Teslas have reduced range for the same pack size due to increased mechanical drag from the extra components. 2. Teslas do torque vectoring on dual and tri motor cars by using the brakes independently on the wheels. Works pretty good. Of course a motor for each wheel is even more control and allows for things like tank turns. Mechanical brakes in EVs get relatively little wear, so using them to balance torque a little here and there is fine. 3. As mentioned elsewhere, you want the wheels to be as light as possible so they can be held to the ground when going over bumps and such. A heavy wheel because it has a big, heavy motor in it is going to fly up into the air when it hits a bump and not immediately come back down because of the mass in the wheel wanting to continue to go up after hitting the bump. This leads to terrible traction and loss of control of the vehicle. In addition a low RPM hub motor is going to be big and heavy because you need the motor area to generate max torque at wheel rotational speed. With a motor in the body of the car geared down, the max torque of the motor can be much less allowing the motor to be a lot smaller. For speed, the motor can just spin really fast when the car is going really fast when there is a gear reduction. You can only generate so much torque per unit of area of motor, but voltage to the windings can be varied for speed control. Because electric motors can spin a whole lot faster than an ICE engine before flying apart and the torque they can produce has a large factor in how physically large they are and because electronics can act as a variable transformer stepping the voltage down and such, only a single speed is needed. You just size the gearing so that the electric motor won't fly apart at top speed and size the motor to produce max desired torque considering the torque amplification factor of the gearing. Then the motor shrinks down as power is handled by speed of the motor and you can have a lot of speed before the motor flies apart. When you look at a Tesla or Prius, they take these lessons to heart and have very high power density electric motors that can spin at very high RPMs. When you look at the Chevy Volt for example, they did not understand this and so ended up with relatively large and bulky low power density motors that spun more slowly. 4. Leading on from #3, it would have been helpful to get more into the torque curves of these various electric motor types. When you get into the dual motor Tesla Model 3 and Model Y, they use two different motor types in part because they have different torque curves, so having one of each motor type allows them to distribute power during an acceleration to make better use of each torque curve. 5. As mentioned elsewhere, the motor descriptions you gave are not all completely accurate. I can't use this video as a reference due to the inaccuracies.
Yeah. I disagree too with what the video says at 12:30 about one set of batteries recharging while the vehicle runs on the other set, extending the range.
Good insights. It appears most manufacturers of dual motor designs do have reduced range over a single motor. Dual motor Teslas actually have increased range over the single motor varients with the same battery size, when they offered these options. This is because they gear the motors slightly differently so they can optimize the motors for different speeds where the motors each offer the maximum efficency. For example, the single motor S75 got 249 EPA range, while the dual motor S75D got 259 miles EPA range. Both of these had the same battery pack. Seems most other manfactures are still trying to figure out EVs and have yet to do much optiomization. They wil get there someday.
@@tesla_tap Well, what I heard when the Model 3 first came out, the single motor long range was getting more like 370 miles of range, which is significantly better than the 315 mile range the same Model 3 with dual motors was getting. What I read was something more nuanced was happening than simple gear ratios as gear ratios between two motors in the same car don't matter. I mean you can only go as fast as the slowest motor / gear ratio setup and having one motor geared to a faster speed tends to mean it generates less torque. Instead the important point was the torque curve of each motor type used. The typical deal with Teslas these days is to have one switched reluctance permanent motor and one AC induction motor or something to the like. These motor types have very different efficiency curves and very different torque curves. The permanent magnet motor tends to be better in the back because you can launch the car off with its high starting torque and in general it is more efficient, so putting more wear on the back tires by having them push around the car the most, counter balances with the steering wear of the front tires. I mean a front wheel drive vehicle has to have its tires rotated often and consistently because the front tires get a double whammy on wear, leading to a massive imbalance of wear if you don't rotate the tires. The AC induction motor in the front is mainly best used for mid to high speed heavy acceleration as it is better at generating torque at higher speeds relatively than the permanent magnet motor. However, the AC induction motor is less efficient across the board and especially bad at low speed efficiency. So, you want to use this motor a lot less with most of the time it is very lightly used in order to minimize AC induction slip losses. (The harder you push on an AC induction motor, the more the induced magnetic field 'slips' around the rotor and thus the worse the efficiency, especially if you are slipping a lot at a low speed.) Also having only one permanent magnet motor in the car with the other being an induction motor saves on rare Earth materials used as the induction motor does not use rare Earths.
@@ChaJ67If frontal induction motor gets used so rarely due to lower efficiency doesn't that also reduce the range just because you need to lug around useless weight? If there is no clutch then the front motor also adds mechanical drag. Heavier tires will make the suspension less effective, but the weight in tyres at least smooths out the speed due to rotational inertia during longer stretches of road on a bicycle for example.
You have classified the Prius with the wrong type of motors! There are a lot inaccuracies in concepts. Newbies to EV technology beware with this video!
Good little review there, thanks. Two things I would like further explanation of 1) would not in-wheel motors not increase the turning moment of the vehicle by being further from the centre axis 2) and make the vehicle ride rougher due to the increased unsprung weight? Once more good job.
@@jn5193 but less break pad dust due to regen. Small/Hatchback EVs offer similar weight to ICE counterpart so better to avoid big and chunky battery options if city pollution is the concern
Some corrections needed here. The SynRM you're talking about at 6:40 is what I've got in the back of my Tesla Model 3 RWD but it also has permanent magnets embedded in the rotor. As far as I'm concerned, you cannot improve on that provided the permanent magnets don't demagnetize over time or due to heat.
There's also the twin motor front wheel drive configuration that many Chinese evs use. In most cases all wheel drive aren't available, as the frames were designed only with fwd in mind, and available space and weight was already used for battery. There's no transmission, no rear motors, only small passive generators integrated into rear break rotors for clawing back breaking power. The idea was to keep everything as simple, cheap, efficient, and reliable as possible. We may see this configuration more often as evs come down from the luxury market and become mainstream.
I don't think so. Maybe it would be reversed. The best drivetrain is this, that sents ≈30% of the power to the front wheels and ≈70% to the rear. EVs can do it easier than the ICEs. As more EVs are made, there will be more chassises specially designed for EVs. When gasoline engines are banned, probably the only available chassises would be those for EVs.
That twin front motor configuration shifts weight distribution to the front making it easier to drift but a lot harder to turn around tight corners.It is a bad configuration.I don't understand why some Chinese companies use it.
@@devanshkoshta1878 they have a 3 tier production line. The body comes down from the top the middle line where the battery is fitted & the underfloor pan attached. Then it move down ground level where the motor/s steering, suspension & wheels/tyres, all on the front subframe are fitted! Then the cars away for trim! Short efficient production line, ideal for for small cheap put together in a short time.
The Model S and Model X are only sold as dual or tri motors AWD. The Model 3 SR+ is RWD (single motor). Other Model 3s and the Model Y are dual motor AWD. I'd estimate less than 10% of Tesla sales today are RWD only.
Relating to motor configuration I see two favorable set-ups. The single motor drive is the best for electric conversion of ICE cars. The best natural electric car configuration is the four hub motor concept based on AFS motors as the best fitting package to the wheels.
So, essentially, an internal combustion engine spinning a strong generator that charges a battery pack that runs electric motors? There are several conversion steps, from mechanical to electrical back to mechanical. A bit redundant, but doable.
@@foureyedchick The problem with ICE cars is the partial load operation of the engine. An ICE is capable to operate at a COP of more than 30% close to the point of its highest torque. At partial load (and also at maximum nominal power) the COP is considerably smaller. If you operate the engine close to its idle rpm the COP is typically less than 10%. If you idle the engine at zero speed the COP is of course Zero. In driving cycles the averaged COP is typically between 15 to 25%. Mechanical to electrical to mechanical is therefore considerably better if you operate the ICE at its maximum COP point. The charging / discharging COP of a Li-Ion battery is higher than 95%. This is also because in contrast to ICE operation, the partial load COP of the whole electric power train is better than at its nominal maximum power. This is also the reason why buiffered serial hybrid systems are used for railway applications.
Sadly we are going to see a lot of single motor vehicles before manufacturers start bringing down the cost of true four motor AWD unless its done under a government regulatory mandate.
electric motor based torque vectoring isn’t going to compensate for cars that have poor handling. They do have the potential to improve handling, but it’s usually nothing significant since differentials are already quite good at torque vectoring.
@@jhixx8910 Yeah it's a weird thing to contemplate..differentials can shift the tires independence "grip" (revolution) for going around corners ,, one tire needs to spin a little faster on the outer track,,, but does a duel rear motor do the same or one has to take up the power ..I suppose some sophisticated motor control codding would be necessary to maximize the independent moters speeds around a corner.
@@jhixx8910 I used to think that, until I drove vehicles with torque vectoring. Yes of course they're only factor in the handling equation, but with the same suspension, you get significant improvement and drivability, especially at high speed cornering, of course. You can try this in ICE vehicles, such as Porsches. Drive the same car with and without, and see the big difference
Practical and natural progression suggest all EVs will be four motor drives. You get best of the both worlds. Efficiency (good for climate) and extremely responsive car (like a Ferrari!)
Finally I conclude that its the end of differentials and other mechanical parts wich normally are equipped on the ICE cars. But I think that this permanent magnet engines are the best effective and efficient engines ever. But the problem still on the batteries the weight affects their own performance overall And this is a topic on that powertrain automakers need to solve!!! Finally, the future tells about the scopes about the evolution of the batteries.
At about 12:25... "One of the motors can be used to power the car, while the other set of batteries can be recharging". Not unless you are plugged in while driving. 😁
Using one motor for charging the car would simply place extra drag on the other motor in equal quantity to the amount charging (minus losses, so you lose energy). Unless they mean doing it at separate times, but the way they word it is ambiguous.
@cliveosborne__ : The bttry replacement every 2. yrs, was very painful to the pocket... We have 3. units of e. bike now, the 5th round of bttry replacement for an e.bike- the bttry cost was almost the price of the e. bike unit!!.. Here in Phils, theres a lot of surplus "motorcycle engine", so I encouraged my son, a small engine mechanics, to CONVERT 1. unit of our e. bike- into gasoline engine... The waste of money for a new set deep- acid bttry, every 2. yrs- its very disgusting!... Other option : Remain in bttry powered e. bike, but will used the ordinary lead- acid bttry (not the deep- acid type), commonly installed in motorcycles, cars, suv's, trucks, etc.. Then, we'll install the "bttry charging system" of said lead- acid bttry, its "alternator charger", will be operated by small gasoline engine... Said gas engine will "auto start" ,when the "bttry voltage" DROPPED 10% "lower" than its PRE-SET "level"- then, will "auto OFF" , when the NORMAL "volt level" was REACHED... And vice versa... Surely, we'll used a "step-up" voltage transformer, coz 24- volts was the aver. volts for big truck bttry... Since year 2012, many tricyle driver, here in our town, were already using such tech'gy - "conversion to lead- acid bttry"...😊😊😊.. But they didnt include the "bttry self charging system"- coz its pricey...
yes, the four motor is the future I suppose because it gets ride of all that long and heavy transmission as well and that is one big step forward into the future. I am keen to see it coming out in the future...
Wow, it was really nice to have this video here. By the way, I will research Charging stations' impact on smart grid power quality and stability, which is vital for power industries and governments to consider the increasing usage of EVs in grid power. It seems that up to many decades, the EVs will be fully having roads under there own wheels. Which makes this research really efficient. If you have any kind of research cooperation program, please let me know.
Electrolmotive diesel trains use double squirrel cage induction motors because they are very reliable motors. Its has high starting horsepower and torque set up but they’re large in size.
I am a retired engineer, I worked in Medical Systems, Factory Automation and Robotics for 45 years. Now I own a 2104 Corvette and the 2024 E Ray looks very promising. BUT they did nothing for efficiency, MPG or emissions. Only Power and Speed. I hear you say "When In Wheel Motors arrive" . OK I want an In Wheel Motor for the front two wheels of my 2014 Corvette. I think Chevy Missed the opportunity for cake and eat it too in the E Ray. I think we need to focus on Retrofitting existing vehicles into AWD Hybrids with In Wheel Motors and Single Pedal controllers, Regen and Vector guidance. My goal is longer range, AWD, bid power when needed and power assisted Gas drives for Max MPG and Lowest Emissions such a E85 Conversion to Gas motor for emissions and power. Where can i go to get a Conversion engineered and practical in my remaining lifetime, I am 74. My 1st Vette was a 1964 now this 2014 may be my last one. I like the car and just need to make the best for the future in emissions and power. Front Engine rear Drive feels so good to me after owning 8 Corvettes 3 of them supercharged its a format I like. I have tried the known motor sources but they are all lined up to supply the Major Manufacturers NOT the After Market vehicles. Trucks and Cars need love too. I thought making the Corvette conversion first could open the AWD Hybrid conversion market up to all the other Gas Drive vehicles. Delivery, Pick Up and sedans why not? Any feedback or comment welcome. I learned good thinks in this video and will look for others on your channel. Dennis
I would prefer a 1 liter, 70HP triple cylinder engine, paired with a 40HP axial Flux motor/generator, to cruise the car at a fixed speed, and a 100hp rear motor, for acceleration.
I will go for the 4 motor configuration since it has the most power combined with 4 motors. I like the idea you can run two motors while the other two are not running and the batteries will recharge while the car is running.
Charging the batteries while moving is totally inaccurate - rather absurd. I wonder why this video hasn't been updated to correct that incorrect statement
The best improvement would be to eliminate the charge cycle entirely. Flying saucers ( some ) use Kohler converters. But what is the strength of the EMF field at ground level? There has to be magic in the mix.
Given all that's being said about electric Motor evolution , control systems, gyroscopes , robotics etc , looks like a single motor , single seater , single wheel system set up on a single pole provisioned with stabilized seat and self navigation controls for the commuter will be the next important development in the coming years.
Using a poorly written script that is read by a computer text to speech app is resulting in some confusing wordage in places. But it is overall a useful video.
Yes, the stress on each word is often wrong. The script sounds like it was written by someone in China. There's a weird word 'centrelized' on screen at one point- is this correct in any country?
BLDC and PMS is more or less the same for me. Also the axial flux machine is just another geometry of this principle, which allows for iron free systems.
the stated efficiency is not correct as none of the electric motors have higher then 5 % at startup and during startup draws more current and is putting out less hp, that problem was solved several years ago but has not been put on the market due to those attempting to bring this new development were killed in a so called accidental airplane crash.
Dear brother you have done a great job by uploading such a highly useful and informative vedio. Best wishes Naeem ahmed bhatti From,, Islamabad, pakistan
You aired to mention the inverter for AC motor to convert the battery DC. Only series wound motor does not require an inverter. Thyristor is required for speed and current control.
single TYPE motor, is my preference. For simplicity reason. 2 motor, front & back, is simple enough. Quad motor, 2 front & 2 back, only if it can turn to 3 / 2 / single motor, when 1 / 2 / 3 motor develops a problem.
Best video on the subject and very thorough, very informative. Description, comparision, and Pros and Cons are well explained. I liked your video. Thank you for sharing.
My preferred configuration for a practical EV is to have two motors in front and parallel to the rear axle with a two speed gear box which would allow just one motor to be used around town in a low gear where maximum rpm might get up to any 60 - 70 km/h and and then high ratio could be used with two motors with maximum rpm allowing a top speed of something like 115km/h as 110km/h is the maximum speed limit where I live. The top speed limitation caused by the gear ratio allows the lowest possible torque motor to be used as torque is proportional to current draw, also the lower the torque the lighter the motor. I also have had a less practical design concept that I thought up in the early nineties before lithium iron batteries became an option. The idea was to have something like 10 small wheels about the size of the original mini minor wheels all with built in hub motors which would be all steerable except for the pair second from the rear. Suspension and steering may be similar to that of the front wheel of an aircraft to allow room for the less energy dense batteries such as nickel metal hydride batteries and/or a flat horizontally opposed engine and alternator so that it all could be hung under a higher than normal floor pan. This meant that it could easily be changed from hybrid to only batteries when battery technology improves. I’m not an engineer but was thinking that this design might reduce the need for localised high strength at the suspension points since there would be ten of them instead of four and I was hoping that this would make it much easier to design the body from aluminum which requires less energy to recycle and even better may not need to be painted but polished like aircraft. Also since it would be suspended at ten points the suspension could be fully extended without the suspension being too hard and the advantage of this is that it will not drop wheels into pot holes which makes it more tolerable on bad roads with the advantage of less unsprung weight that you get from small wheels. While it may be a bit expensive to manufacture there are two trade offs, 1) as already mentioned the possibility that it may not need to be painted and 2) solid state components that only need to carry one tenth of the current for each wheel would be far less than one tenth of the cost at least it was the case back in the nineties. It could look a bit like the chariot from the 1960s sci-fi show lost in space without the tracks. I think that the uniqueness and practical advantages would have attracted a lot of buyers.
Obviously even EV cars of similar size have varying efficiencies. One reason is the different motor design. Is there a video that discusses the different efficiencies?
Could you expand this discussion to include hub motors? I’ve been watching the development of the Aptera and Lordstown Endurance EVs both of which use hub motors. There seems to be a lot of advantages with these motors but what are the disadvantages?
1. Adding hub motors could vastly increase the unsprung weight and hurt performance, they will feel the impact of every pothole, bump, and high-speed turn. They will also be exposed to road dirt and mud, dust, water, and road salt. So engineers must balance durability and weight, and it has yet to be seen whether any current hub motor can last 100,00 miles of everyday driving. 2. Hub motors are more expensive than a single motor mount on the rear axle. 3. They are not as torquey as a single fixed motor. 4. The hub motor is easy to overheat, and it can affect the torque density and also cause demagnetization of the magnet.
In a turn in any vehicle trailer or kids wagon the outside wheels travel further because they are going around a bigger circle, so they are rolling faster.
The video was very informative. I wanted to know more on the Axial Flux Motors and their application in production(Specially One from the Koeinseg Regera)..
Is the upcoming 2023 CR-V Hybrid also a series hybrid? Indications are it will be improved. Could you do a comparison of the old and new for us please?
I have an 1994 Toyota pickup truck with a 2.4L 22RE 4-cylinder and while it has been extremely reliable, it is pretty underpowered. I had often wondered if it would have been possible to make it a gas/hybrid by having an electric motor going inline with the driveshaft. I would like to think of it as more of a helper motor that would help with faster acceleration and maybe a bit more power when I need it. All the while not drastically changing the engine or transmission. I saw a video of someone attaching an electric motor on a V8 engine setup similar to a belt driven supercharger. The power train remains the same but they added this motor which gave a bump in power while also increasing mpgs. That’s what I would want. It puzzles me why it never came to market because I feel like that would be perfect for many car enthusiasts who love old cars and old engines but also want to embrace in some new technology or to get more power.
@@Tunzbig Unfortunately my truck is only 2WD. I was thinking of a 3-phase motor/generator that was belt driven like a supercharger. The biggest problem is see is having a place to mount this big and heavy electric motor in the engine bay. That and running the wires to the battery which would likely be in the back would require very heavy gauge wire to span that long of a distance. What I was thinking was to have an electric motor be connected inline with the back of the original 5-speed transmission with a coupling and then the driveshaft be connected to the other side of the motor, similar to a Gear Vendors overdrive. There should be plenty of room to mount an electric motor and I suppose the batteries could be placed opposite of the gas tank to balance the weight. Another thought would be to have the motor mount inline with the differential like what the new Edison diesel-electric truck is doing. Both would help with weight balance, keep the length of the heavy gauge wire short so it’s less expensive, and allow for easier packaging under the truck. This concept could also be more easily adapted to all pickup trucks with only minor changes. I can see this becoming a popular kit for any new or old pickup truck to be converted into a hybrid, while still retaining the heart and soul of the original engine and transmissions but with the added benefit of increased power and fuel economy.
Well, single motor driving a diff is real popular. The heavy truck community seem to love that format as they are calling them e axles. I was hoping to rid myself of the diiff as it requires regular servicing which is the primary attraction of BEVs to me. No oil changes-no emissions testing-no transmission servicing-no driveline nor U joints to service-no cooling system...Win-Win-Win. If Tesla can make that $25K eco sedan happen they will have a monster on their hands & the conversion to EVs will accelerate to an unbelievable pace. !
1. You can't break unity. When doing two or more motors, any motor doing regenerative braking would add more load to a motor pushing the car at the same time. With motors less than 100% efficient, this would drag down range and increase tire wear. Dual motor Teslas have reduced range for the same pack size due to increased mechanical drag from the extra components.
2. Teslas do torque vectoring on dual and tri motor cars by using the brakes independently on the wheels. Works pretty good. Of course a motor for each wheel is even more control and allows for things like tank turns. Mechanical brakes in EVs get relatively little wear, so using them to balance torque a little here and there is fine.
3. As mentioned elsewhere, you want the wheels to be as light as possible so they can be held to the ground when going over bumps and such. A heavy wheel because it has a big, heavy motor in it is going to fly up into the air when it hits a bump and not immediately come back down because of the mass in the wheel wanting to continue to go up after hitting the bump. This leads to terrible traction and loss of control of the vehicle. In addition a low RPM hub motor is going to be big and heavy because you need the motor area to generate max torque at wheel rotational speed. With a motor in the body of the car geared down, the max torque of the motor can be much less allowing the motor to be a lot smaller. For speed, the motor can just spin really fast when the car is going really fast when there is a gear reduction. You can only generate so much torque per unit of area of motor, but voltage to the windings can be varied for speed control. Because electric motors can spin a whole lot faster than an ICE engine before flying apart and the torque they can produce has a large factor in how physically large they are and because electronics can act as a variable transformer stepping the voltage down and such, only a single speed is needed. You just size the gearing so that the electric motor won't fly apart at top speed and size the motor to produce max desired torque considering the torque amplification factor of the gearing. Then the motor shrinks down as power is handled by speed of the motor and you can have a lot of speed before the motor flies apart. When you look at a Tesla or Prius, they take these lessons to heart and have very high power density electric motors that can spin at very high RPMs. When you look at the Chevy Volt for example, they did not understand this and so ended up with relatively large and bulky low power density motors that spun more slowly.
4. Leading on from #3, it would have been helpful to get more into the torque curves of these various electric motor types. When you get into the dual motor Tesla Model 3 and Model Y, they use two different motor types in part because they have different torque curves, so having one of each motor type allows them to distribute power during an acceleration to make better use of each torque curve.
5. As mentioned elsewhere, the motor descriptions you gave are not all completely accurate. I can't use this video as a reference due to the inaccuracies.
nice rundown, thanks
Yeah. I disagree too with what the video says at 12:30 about one set of batteries recharging while the vehicle runs on the other set, extending the range.
Good insights. It appears most manufacturers of dual motor designs do have reduced range over a single motor. Dual motor Teslas actually have increased range over the single motor varients with the same battery size, when they offered these options. This is because they gear the motors slightly differently so they can optimize the motors for different speeds where the motors each offer the maximum efficency. For example, the single motor S75 got 249 EPA range, while the dual motor S75D got 259 miles EPA range. Both of these had the same battery pack. Seems most other manfactures are still trying to figure out EVs and have yet to do much optiomization. They wil get there someday.
@@tesla_tap Well, what I heard when the Model 3 first came out, the single motor long range was getting more like 370 miles of range, which is significantly better than the 315 mile range the same Model 3 with dual motors was getting.
What I read was something more nuanced was happening than simple gear ratios as gear ratios between two motors in the same car don't matter. I mean you can only go as fast as the slowest motor / gear ratio setup and having one motor geared to a faster speed tends to mean it generates less torque. Instead the important point was the torque curve of each motor type used.
The typical deal with Teslas these days is to have one switched reluctance permanent motor and one AC induction motor or something to the like. These motor types have very different efficiency curves and very different torque curves. The permanent magnet motor tends to be better in the back because you can launch the car off with its high starting torque and in general it is more efficient, so putting more wear on the back tires by having them push around the car the most, counter balances with the steering wear of the front tires. I mean a front wheel drive vehicle has to have its tires rotated often and consistently because the front tires get a double whammy on wear, leading to a massive imbalance of wear if you don't rotate the tires. The AC induction motor in the front is mainly best used for mid to high speed heavy acceleration as it is better at generating torque at higher speeds relatively than the permanent magnet motor. However, the AC induction motor is less efficient across the board and especially bad at low speed efficiency. So, you want to use this motor a lot less with most of the time it is very lightly used in order to minimize AC induction slip losses. (The harder you push on an AC induction motor, the more the induced magnetic field 'slips' around the rotor and thus the worse the efficiency, especially if you are slipping a lot at a low speed.) Also having only one permanent magnet motor in the car with the other being an induction motor saves on rare Earth materials used as the induction motor does not use rare Earths.
@@ChaJ67If frontal induction motor gets used so rarely due to lower efficiency doesn't that also reduce the range just because you need to lug around useless weight? If there is no clutch then the front motor also adds mechanical drag. Heavier tires will make the suspension less effective, but the weight in tyres at least smooths out the speed due to rotational inertia during longer stretches of road on a bicycle for example.
EVs are always complex to understand. But u made it easy. Thanks ❤️
You are welcome!
⛽
EV are 1000 times easy to understand fix compared to an ICE Car.
You have classified the Prius with the wrong type of motors! There are a lot inaccuracies in concepts. Newbies to EV technology beware with this video!
Good little review there, thanks. Two things I would like further explanation of 1) would not in-wheel motors not increase the turning moment of the vehicle by being further from the centre axis 2) and make the vehicle ride rougher due to the increased unsprung weight? Once more good job.
The increase in turning moment would be insignificant imo
EVs are heavier and Rubber dust production resultant pollution from tires to be considered for evaluation.
@@jn5193 but less break pad dust due to regen. Small/Hatchback EVs offer similar weight to ICE counterpart so better to avoid big and chunky battery options if city pollution is the concern
Some corrections needed here. The SynRM you're talking about at 6:40 is what I've got in the back of my Tesla Model 3 RWD but it also has permanent magnets embedded in the rotor. As far as I'm concerned, you cannot improve on that provided the permanent magnets don't demagnetize over time or due to heat.
yes
4 Motor Powertrain is Excellent in all conditions, and as per Driving Experience , Efficiency , power distribution . 👍👍👍👍
4 motor powertrain is the best option!
Very clear explanation! I want 4motor because very strong and no overheat
The overheating issue is not related to configuration. It's related to type of motor
I came from Previous video about gears by searching for types of motors and find this video.
Thanks for informative videos
There's also the twin motor front wheel drive configuration that many Chinese evs use. In most cases all wheel drive aren't available, as the frames were designed only with fwd in mind, and available space and weight was already used for battery. There's no transmission, no rear motors, only small passive generators integrated into rear break rotors for clawing back breaking power. The idea was to keep everything as simple, cheap, efficient, and reliable as possible. We may see this configuration more often as evs come down from the luxury market and become mainstream.
I don't think so. Maybe it would be reversed. The best drivetrain is this, that sents ≈30% of the power to the front wheels and ≈70% to the rear. EVs can do it easier than the ICEs. As more EVs are made, there will be more chassises specially designed for EVs. When gasoline engines are banned, probably the only available chassises would be those for EVs.
That twin front motor configuration shifts weight distribution to the front making it easier to drift but a lot harder to turn around tight corners.It is a bad configuration.I don't understand why some Chinese companies use it.
@@devanshkoshta1878 they have a 3 tier production line. The body comes down from the top the middle line where the battery is fitted & the underfloor pan attached. Then it move down ground level where the motor/s steering, suspension & wheels/tyres, all on the front subframe are fitted! Then the cars away for trim! Short efficient production line, ideal for for small cheap put together in a short time.
Now I understand why I like carburetors better. : )
.....the induction noise!! lol
probably the best EV Motor Uses video review I have seen - keep up the good work and good luck with the channel !
Synrm also uses permanent magnets and Teslas are primarily RWDs.
IPM-SynRM
Yes, that's true.
The Model S and Model X are only sold as dual or tri motors AWD. The Model 3 SR+ is RWD (single motor). Other Model 3s and the Model Y are dual motor AWD. I'd estimate less than 10% of Tesla sales today are RWD only.
Most Tesla's are dual motor.
Relating to motor configuration I see two favorable set-ups. The single motor drive is the best for electric conversion of ICE cars. The best natural electric car configuration is the four hub motor concept based on AFS motors as the best fitting package to the wheels.
So, essentially, an internal combustion engine spinning a strong generator that charges a battery pack that runs electric motors? There are several conversion steps, from mechanical to electrical back to mechanical. A bit redundant, but doable.
@@foureyedchick The problem with ICE cars is the partial load operation of the engine. An ICE is capable to operate at a COP of more than 30% close to the point of its highest torque. At partial load (and also at maximum nominal power) the COP is considerably smaller.
If you operate the engine close to its idle rpm the COP is typically less than 10%. If you idle the engine at zero speed the COP is of course Zero. In driving cycles the averaged COP is typically between 15 to 25%.
Mechanical to electrical to mechanical is therefore considerably better if you operate the ICE at its maximum COP point. The charging / discharging COP of a Li-Ion battery is higher than 95%. This is also because in contrast to ICE operation, the partial load COP of the whole electric power train is better than at its nominal maximum power.
This is also the reason why buiffered serial hybrid systems are used for railway applications.
EV is a new concept we are to understand. You tried to make it easy. thanks.
Lovely video. Your video clearly explained how electric motors in EVs work, even to someone like me without engineering background. Keep it up.
Sadly we are going to see a lot of single motor vehicles before manufacturers start bringing down the cost of true four motor AWD unless its done under a government regulatory mandate.
Unless there's something unsafe about it that isn't unsafe about vehicles in general I would like to disagree.
electric motor based torque vectoring isn’t going to compensate for cars that have poor handling. They do have the potential to improve handling, but it’s usually nothing significant since differentials are already quite good at torque vectoring.
They are all gauging right now,, even batteries are being gauged over
@@jhixx8910 Yeah it's a weird thing to contemplate..differentials can shift the tires independence "grip" (revolution) for going around corners ,, one tire needs to spin a little faster on the outer track,,, but does a duel rear motor do the same or one has to take up the power ..I suppose some sophisticated motor control codding would be necessary to maximize the independent moters speeds around a corner.
@@jhixx8910 I used to think that, until I drove vehicles with torque vectoring. Yes of course they're only factor in the handling equation, but with the same suspension, you get significant improvement and drivability, especially at high speed cornering, of course. You can try this in ICE vehicles, such as Porsches. Drive the same car with and without, and see the big difference
Thank you for such a video review, useful for all interested and beginners!
Superbly explained 2 words for the video "Simply Awesome" Good bless you keep the good work going
Practical and natural progression suggest all EVs will be four motor drives. You get best of the both worlds. Efficiency (good for climate) and extremely responsive car (like a Ferrari!)
Great explanation, very easy to understand especially for beginners.
Glad it was helpful!
Clarification of ev based on motors really appreciable.Thanks for your information.
I wished if there was 1 million like button for the excellent review ❤❤❤❤
Finally I conclude that its the end of differentials and other mechanical parts wich normally are equipped on the ICE cars. But I think that this permanent magnet engines are the best effective and efficient engines ever. But the problem still on the batteries the weight affects their own performance overall And this is a topic on that powertrain automakers need to solve!!! Finally, the future tells about the scopes about the evolution of the batteries.
Not for sure since Tesla still uses differentials and Porsche - gearboxes.
Great video to explain different types of EV motors.
A motor for each wheel is the best!
At about 12:25... "One of the motors can be used to power the car, while the other set of batteries can be recharging".
Not unless you are plugged in while driving. 😁
What do you mean?
Using one motor for charging the car would simply place extra drag on the other motor in equal quantity to the amount charging (minus losses, so you lose energy).
Unless they mean doing it at separate times, but the way they word it is ambiguous.
Very comprehensive video on EVs motor systems. I feel like going EV, like right now.
@cliveosborne__ : The bttry replacement every 2. yrs, was very painful to the pocket... We have 3. units of e. bike now, the 5th round of bttry replacement for an e.bike- the bttry cost was almost the price of the e. bike unit!!..
Here in Phils, theres a lot of surplus "motorcycle engine", so I encouraged my son, a small engine mechanics, to CONVERT 1. unit of our e. bike- into gasoline engine...
The waste of money for a new set deep- acid bttry, every 2. yrs- its very disgusting!...
Other option : Remain in bttry powered e. bike, but will used the ordinary lead- acid bttry (not the deep- acid type), commonly installed in motorcycles, cars, suv's, trucks, etc.. Then, we'll install the "bttry charging system" of said lead- acid bttry, its "alternator charger", will be operated by small gasoline engine...
Said gas engine will "auto start" ,when the "bttry voltage" DROPPED 10% "lower" than its PRE-SET "level"- then, will "auto OFF" , when the NORMAL "volt level" was REACHED... And vice versa...
Surely, we'll used a "step-up" voltage transformer, coz 24- volts was the aver. volts for big truck bttry... Since year 2012, many tricyle driver, here in our town, were already using such tech'gy - "conversion to lead- acid bttry"...😊😊😊.. But they didnt include the "bttry self charging system"- coz its pricey...
Superb! Thanking for sharing this video! greetings from Papua New Guinea!
This made my day
I prefered the 4 all wheel motor. Its is perfect for vectoring and more power delivered for each wheel.
yes, the four motor is the future I suppose because it gets ride of all that long and heavy transmission as well and that is one big step forward into the future. I am keen to see it coming out in the future...
I find that the dual motor system is the best for EVs power density and power control.
Wow, it was really nice to have this video here. By the way, I will research Charging stations' impact on smart grid power quality and stability, which is vital for power industries and governments to consider the increasing usage of EVs in grid power.
It seems that up to many decades, the EVs will be fully having roads under there own wheels. Which makes this research really efficient.
If you have any kind of research cooperation program, please let me know.
بہت محنت کی ہے اپ نے.
This is a Good Tutorial on the different Electric Motors on EV we use! Thank You So Much for this useful tutorial! 🌷🌿
Thanks @ lot for information... According to me 4 motor will b good
Yes it will
I believe in the in-wheel motors for my EV concept.
Electrolmotive diesel trains use double squirrel cage induction motors because they are very reliable motors. Its has high starting horsepower and torque set up but they’re large in size.
I am a retired engineer, I worked in Medical Systems, Factory Automation and Robotics for 45 years. Now I own a 2104 Corvette and the 2024 E Ray looks very promising. BUT they did nothing for efficiency, MPG or emissions. Only Power and Speed. I hear you say "When In Wheel Motors arrive" . OK I want an In Wheel Motor for the front two wheels of my 2014 Corvette. I think Chevy Missed the opportunity for cake and eat it too in the E Ray. I think we need to focus on Retrofitting existing vehicles into AWD Hybrids with In Wheel Motors and Single Pedal controllers, Regen and Vector guidance. My goal is longer range, AWD, bid power when needed and power assisted Gas drives for Max MPG and Lowest Emissions such a E85 Conversion to Gas motor for emissions and power. Where can i go to get a Conversion engineered and practical in my remaining lifetime, I am 74. My 1st Vette was a 1964 now this 2014 may be my last one. I like the car and just need to make the best for the future in emissions and power. Front Engine rear Drive feels so good to me after owning 8 Corvettes 3 of them supercharged its a format I like. I have tried the known motor sources but they are all lined up to supply the Major Manufacturers NOT the After Market vehicles. Trucks and Cars need love too. I thought making the Corvette conversion first could open the AWD Hybrid conversion market up to all the other Gas Drive vehicles. Delivery, Pick Up and sedans why not? Any feedback or comment welcome. I learned good thinks in this video and will look for others on your channel. Dennis
greattttt video, can you make a detailed vid on welding type since my 1st year of engineering is online :)
Sure
Make more videos @engineerspost.its very useful.. keep going so one day you will get one MILLION SUBSCRIBERS
Thanks a ton
@@TheEngineersPost what abaut inwheal motors??
Very good, Very informative. Congrats, wish to hear from you soon
Fu EV guy
I would prefer a 1 liter, 70HP triple cylinder engine, paired with a 40HP axial Flux motor/generator, to cruise the car at a fixed speed, and a 100hp rear motor, for acceleration.
Excellent explanation. 4 Motor power
Bro literally give this huge information in a nice way and shorter way 2 year ago
meri Fast year ki pahli semister offline Hui thi aur ab third year ki last semister offline ho Rahi hai mechanical engineering ki
I will go for the 4 motor configuration since it has the most power combined with 4 motors. I like the idea you can run two motors while the other two are not running and the batteries will recharge while the car is running.
running two motors while charging two other motors is a fool's errand.
Charging the batteries while moving is totally inaccurate - rather absurd. I wonder why this video hasn't been updated to correct that incorrect statement
Good video, but wish in-hub (within wheel)
motors had been more extensively discussed.
Check out Porsches new in hub motor setup it looks cool but the unsprung weight would make it a horrible daily driver
@@Blaaggarding which Porsche? The Taycan? or hybrid models?
Nice content 👍👍❤️
Thanks for the information ❤️
Thanks and welcome
Best video among all but explain further about it's electric components ✌🏻
Sure thing!
@@TheEngineersPostlike How to make a battery pack for car??
...and drivers, vfd's, etc
I wonder how in-wheel motors can be considered the best when it adds considerable un-sprung weight which will adversely affect handling.
10:40 more efficient at a higher altitude ........... ?? Great breakdown of electric motors .
For any case: the toyota prius is not simply an electric٫ Comes with a I3 - I4 hybrid engine
📌
(Also in the induction site: rav4 hybrid)
The best improvement would be to eliminate the charge cycle entirely.
Flying saucers ( some ) use Kohler converters.
But what is the strength of the EMF field at ground level?
There has to be magic in the mix.
?
Yeppppp... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Given all that's being said about electric Motor evolution , control systems, gyroscopes , robotics etc , looks like a single motor , single seater , single wheel system set up on a single pole provisioned with stabilized seat and self navigation controls for the commuter will be the next important development in the coming years.
Why? Sounds pretty useless to me.....unless of course it comes with a potato chip bag holder for the lazy person who wants them
Great explanation
Another well-animated educational video, rife with factual errors, narrated by text-to-speech
Using a poorly written script that is read by a computer text to speech app is resulting in some confusing wordage in places. But it is overall a useful video.
Yes, the stress on each word is often wrong. The script sounds like it was written by someone in China. There's a weird word 'centrelized' on screen at one point- is this correct in any country?
BLDC and PMS is more or less the same for me. Also the axial flux machine is just another geometry of this principle, which allows for iron free systems.
Thank you so much for teaching
The future is gonna be great if the World doesn’t come to an end first! Constant improvements and innnovations!
This video explains how efficient electric motors are compared to an internal combustion motor. They have less moving parts and are smaller in size.
the stated efficiency is not correct as none of the electric motors have higher then 5 % at startup and during startup draws more current and is putting out less hp, that problem was solved several years ago but has not been put on the market due to those attempting to bring this new development were killed in a so called accidental airplane crash.
Oh no, were they killed by the same people who have been killing everyone who invented magical 100 mpg carburetors?
It's true for other reasons - none of which is demonstrated in this particular video.
Thanks for sharing this good info...
My pleasure
Dear brother you have done a great job by uploading such a highly useful and informative vedio.
Best wishes
Naeem ahmed bhatti
From,, Islamabad, pakistan
You aired to mention the inverter for AC motor to convert the battery DC. Only series wound motor does not require an inverter. Thyristor is required for speed and current control.
Excellent Information Presentation.
They missed the Permanent Magnet Synchronous Reluctance Motor (PM SynRM) used in the Tesla Model 3 as well as Raxial Flux Motor used by Koenigsegg.
Thanks again for this wonderful video
Rivian looks soo good
single TYPE motor, is my preference.
For simplicity reason.
2 motor, front & back, is simple enough.
Quad motor, 2 front & 2 back,
only if it can turn to 3 / 2 / single motor,
when 1 / 2 / 3 motor develops a problem.
Best video on the subject and very thorough, very informative. Description, comparision, and Pros and Cons are well explained. I liked your video. Thank you for sharing.
In the future they should make electric motors conversion for muscle cars to drive the transmission
Not in the future. It's been happening for 20 years and counting
Good video useful for all about new technologies, for sugarcane juice making machine which motars is good 🙏
Superbu explanation
My preferred configuration for a practical EV is to have two motors in front and parallel to the rear axle with a two speed gear box which would allow just one motor to be used around town in a low gear where maximum rpm might get up to any 60 - 70 km/h and and then high ratio could be used with two motors with maximum rpm allowing a top speed of something like 115km/h as 110km/h is the maximum speed limit where I live. The top speed limitation caused by the gear ratio allows the lowest possible torque motor to be used as torque is proportional to current draw, also the lower the torque the lighter the motor.
I also have had a less practical design concept that I thought up in the early nineties before lithium iron batteries became an option. The idea was to have something like 10 small wheels about the size of the original mini minor wheels all with built in hub motors which would be all steerable except for the pair second from the rear. Suspension and steering may be similar to that of the front wheel of an aircraft to allow room for the less energy dense batteries such as nickel metal hydride batteries and/or a flat horizontally opposed engine and alternator so that it all could be hung under a higher than normal floor pan. This meant that it could easily be changed from hybrid to only batteries when battery technology improves.
I’m not an engineer but was thinking that this design might reduce the need for localised high strength at the suspension points since there would be ten of them instead of four and I was hoping that this would make it much easier to design the body from aluminum which requires less energy to recycle and even better may not need to be painted but polished like aircraft.
Also since it would be suspended at ten points the suspension could be fully extended without the suspension being too hard and the advantage of this is that it will not drop wheels into pot holes which makes it more tolerable on bad roads with the advantage of less unsprung weight that you get from small wheels.
While it may be a bit expensive to manufacture there are two trade offs, 1) as already mentioned the possibility that it may not need to be painted and 2) solid state components that only need to carry one tenth of the current for each wheel would be far less than one tenth of the cost at least it was the case back in the nineties.
It could look a bit like the chariot from the 1960s sci-fi show lost in space without the tracks. I think that the uniqueness and practical advantages would have attracted a lot of buyers.
thank you so much for this video, do you have a video for regenerative braking system ???
second and third motors - actually same motors
With this separation you should tell about all 3 tipes of brushed DC motors
When cornering, how to independently measure which wheel the vehicle needs more torque, is a gravity sensor used here?
it is usually achieved by sensing which wheel is easier to rotate and which is harder to rotate, the wheel that is harder to rotate needs more torque
Obviously even EV cars of similar size have varying efficiencies. One reason is the different motor design. Is there a video that discusses the different efficiencies?
Could you expand this discussion to include hub motors? I’ve been watching the development of the Aptera and Lordstown Endurance EVs both of which use hub motors. There seems to be a lot of advantages with these motors but what are the disadvantages?
1. Adding hub motors could vastly increase the unsprung weight and hurt performance, they will feel the impact of every pothole, bump, and high-speed turn. They will also be exposed to road dirt and mud, dust, water, and road salt. So engineers must balance durability and weight, and it has yet to be seen whether any current hub motor can last 100,00 miles of everyday driving.
2. Hub motors are more expensive than a single motor mount on the rear axle.
3. They are not as torquey as a single fixed motor.
4. The hub motor is easy to overheat, and it can affect the torque density and also cause demagnetization of the magnet.
the only real disadvantage with them is they create more unsprung weight at at the wheels
I would love to see the cost of these engines, me and my brother has been thinkin about building our own ev.
They are not cheap, and then you need sufficient batteries and a motor controller. A tiny 3 hp setup for a kid's go kart runs about $1-2k.
Nice video 👍 nice description
வாழ்த்துக்கள் 🌹
Thank you for sharing
In a turn in any vehicle trailer or kids wagon the outside wheels travel further because they are going around a bigger circle, so they are rolling faster.
What about electric trains. As I know they use asynchronous induction motors. Could you make a vid on them.
The video was very informative. I wanted to know more on the Axial Flux Motors and their application in production(Specially One from the Koeinseg Regera)..
Excellent video!
MOTOR ; ALTERNADOR :
GERADOR ; MOTOR - ELÉTRICOS ; WORLD ;
MOTOR : ELÉTRICOS :
DIVERSOS : UTILIDADES :
INFINITOS : APLICAÇÃO :
UTILIZAÇÃO !!! ; MUITOS PRODUTOS : SERVIÇOS !!! ;
MOTORES : ELÉTRICOS !!! :
FUTURO : GRANDE !!! .
Thanks, Great Video.
alternator, compesor ,fan
dual function,
+ smallest dynamo x
+ metal parts cast
expert
Is the upcoming 2023 CR-V Hybrid also a series hybrid? Indications are it will be improved. Could you do a comparison of the old and new for us please?
I have an 1994 Toyota pickup truck with a 2.4L 22RE 4-cylinder and while it has been extremely reliable, it is pretty underpowered. I had often wondered if it would have been possible to make it a gas/hybrid by having an electric motor going inline with the driveshaft. I would like to think of it as more of a helper motor that would help with faster acceleration and maybe a bit more power when I need it. All the while not drastically changing the engine or transmission. I saw a video of someone attaching an electric motor on a V8 engine setup similar to a belt driven supercharger. The power train remains the same but they added this motor which gave a bump in power while also increasing mpgs. That’s what I would want. It puzzles me why it never came to market because I feel like that would be perfect for many car enthusiasts who love old cars and old engines but also want to embrace in some new technology or to get more power.
i dont see why not, perhaps you could couple it to a transfercase, or to one of the differentials, if its 4x4.
@@Tunzbig Unfortunately my truck is only 2WD. I was thinking of a 3-phase motor/generator that was belt driven like a supercharger. The biggest problem is see is having a place to mount this big and heavy electric motor in the engine bay. That and running the wires to the battery which would likely be in the back would require very heavy gauge wire to span that long of a distance.
What I was thinking was to have an electric motor be connected inline with the back of the original 5-speed transmission with a coupling and then the driveshaft be connected to the other side of the motor, similar to a Gear Vendors overdrive. There should be plenty of room to mount an electric motor and I suppose the batteries could be placed opposite of the gas tank to balance the weight. Another thought would be to have the motor mount inline with the differential like what the new Edison diesel-electric truck is doing. Both would help with weight balance, keep the length of the heavy gauge wire short so it’s less expensive, and allow for easier packaging under the truck. This concept could also be more easily adapted to all pickup trucks with only minor changes. I can see this becoming a popular kit for any new or old pickup truck to be converted into a hybrid, while still retaining the heart and soul of the original engine and transmissions but with the added benefit of increased power and fuel economy.
Excellent 👍👍👍
High quality Motor❤🪬💚🌏
Thank you…
Really cool innovation.. We will see an optimistic future, isn't it?
Need to think about non static and opposite rotation field and armature getting power supply from stator
What is the best car engine to make at home? What do you recommend for an engine?
Well, single motor driving a diff is real popular. The heavy truck community seem to love that format
as they are calling them e axles. I was hoping to rid myself of the diiff as it requires regular servicing
which is the primary attraction of BEVs to me. No oil changes-no emissions testing-no transmission
servicing-no driveline nor U joints to service-no cooling system...Win-Win-Win. If Tesla can make that
$25K eco sedan happen they will have a monster on their hands & the conversion to EVs will
accelerate to an unbelievable pace.
!
Great information 🙏 but create video on ev bikes motors
Check out Verge from Norway! Awesome EB!
Thanks alot good information
Glad it was helpful!