There are fuel boats. How about a compost boat that collects everyone's compost, processes it then sells it to markets and farmers as compost???? It could be named The Butt Buddie.
There are boats including fuel boats that will pump out toilets and dispose of the contents safely and responsibly. Unlike dumping human waste (Biohazardous materials, which is illegal). Into bins. The future will be that you will not get a Boat safety certificate if you do not have a cassette or pump out toilet on board.
Use a 50% white vinegar to 50% water in a spray bottle to clean the toilet. Agree with others on maybe easing up on disinfectant use. Well done for tackling this subject publicly though. Unfortunately money will always be the biggest hurdle but there are some great proposals here.
For our food waste, we buy compostable/ biodegradable bags, so just a thought, you could buy compostable bin bags for your toilet rather than using standard plastic ones.
I don't know if they've changed the compostable plastic bags but when they were first sold, they will only decompose when exposed to light and air, so in a dump situation they didn't always have time to decompose before getting covered up.
@@chuggingalong A Co-op just opened in our village and the bags you can use at the self service section are a decent size and biodegradeable - just looked and seem to be no holes - you could always use a plastic bag to cart them to the dumping place and tip biodegradable one out and reuse the placcy one.
Lydibrown as soon as you put and sealed even into one of these bags that you talk about the composting process is Halted until the bag and the contents get a supply of oxygen so the bacteria can break down the product.
@@chuggingalong CRT are being helpful and are working with boaters from the 'Compost toilets for boats and off grid living'. I've had several meetings with them. They are supporting a pilot collection by Circular Revolution in London; we've worked with them to improve the info on their website and they are willing to give permission for community composting schemes on their land. Personally I don't think they are the right people to provide composting facilities - we've got quite enough trouble with the bins and blocked elsans!! And I've just come across someone who is looking at starting a collection service that might span your area, I'll send her over to watch :-)
Firstly, as always, great video folks. You two would be naturals on the telly. As a plumber, I'm always keen to make sure nothing I do contravenes the Water Regulations. In a nutshell, keeping any 'Class Five Contaminants' (ie No.2s) out of the clean water system is paramount. 'Composting Areas' full of No.2s would have to be very well designed to make sure that nothing gets back into the ground or contaminates the area around them. But we do already have them. They're called sewage farms! Sadly, for the C&RT, I fear the idea is really not going to be practical, especially as after this crisis, there will be no spare money for anything. But perhaps the two top chaps at C&RT, on a combined salary of £450,000 a year (remember that next time a volunteer tries to 'chug' you at one of their stalls), can come up with something.... Yes, I am cynical. Anyhow. Roll on April 12th (Boris permitting) when we can actually do some chugging once more.
Hi Coddy, thanks for your kind words about our videos, we are glad your like them 🌟👍🙂 Hopefully there is quick and simple solution but yes, using the existing sewerage system like cassettes and pump outs seem like a better option at the moment. Yes, roll on April (hopefully)
Having been a live aboard for 2 years now, I have yet to come across refuse points where general waste, dry recycling and glass only bins are respected. If people have so little regard for considerate recycling of general rubbish, what hope is there for considerate composting? And as for CRT providing compost heaps away from the canal, the logistical problems that would create are monumental. I’m now very glad I kept my pump out loo, as I was thinking about composting. Just feel sorry for those who thought they were doing the right thing by going down the composting loo route.
Its not a sensible solution it is land contamination plain and simple 🤦🏻♂️ even if you own the land its not reasonable long term solution, it would be more reasonable for the CRT to provide 10 times as many toilet facilities
Human waste is considered a medical hazard as faeces can contain everything from Hepatitis to other hazards. Likewise urine contains everything from hormones through to remains from antibiotics which can leech into the land. The bags will also take a long time to decompose, whereas waste dealt with via the Rlsan will be dealt with as per the "norm". Love your honesty and your thoughts that you were being eco friendly too. Looking at this perhaps the Elsan costs need to be considered too by "da management".
Dumping what is effectively sewage into household waste bins is not really on. These compost toilets waste need the correct and separated disposal points.
I’m not surprised - it was always a grey area how compost toilets disposed of their waste. Dumping human waste in an uncontrolled manner is not acceptable and in any case - is that really “composting” ?
I was surprised when CRT started suggesting it in Nov 2017, until then it was always about fully composting and that's what I've always done (and encouraged others to do) - not only am I not dependent on elsan facilities but I'm producing compost not waste! But I do agree that dumping in an uncontrolled manner is unacceptable. I've done a lot of reading these last few weeks and learned how many thousands of litres of untreated sewage gets dumped in our rivers and coastline. 'Untreated human waste was released into streams and rivers for more than 1.5m hours in 2019' (Guardian July 2020). Raw sewage released on to English and Welsh beaches around 3000 times in 2019 (Surfers Against Sewage). When you get down to it, every toilet system has an environmental impact. Not that I am suggesting binning dry material from separator toilets should be acceptable and I am doing my absolute best to help those who find the goalposts have moved to grasp the nettle and get composting!
It's not composting at all, really. I think the companies that are selling these as "composting toilets" have some serious explaining to do, possibly in court, for misleading people into thinking their poop would magically turn to harmless garden soil in a matter of days in these toilets. It's really a scam.
My big thing (and I've been fully composting for just over seven years on a cc'ing boat) is that there is no such thing as a composting toilet only a composting system! I'm trying really hard to get everyone talking about 'separating toilets' because that describes them so much better and starts to get us away from some of the confusion (eg that human poo is 'hazardous', it isn't - it's classed as 'offensive'). I don't think we're going to see CRT install a network of composting facilities because there would be lots of hoops to jump through (as well as the cost) but I think we might be able to persuade them to support some trial schemes around the system. I like your ideas - if you haven't already found it, come and join facebook.com/groups/compostingloos. It's the place with sensible evidence based discussion. And for anyone with a separating toilet who has been binning and now wonders what to do I am running a series of online workshops. Next one on Wed 10th.
I've built several compost toilets on land (straight on the ground on top of some straw and "wet theory" -without separation). 12 months is really the minimum for safe compost, so there's always an active chamber and holding one one where the pile is just sitting there for a year+. That holding chamber / composting heap needs air circulation, but the air inlets need to be protected from both flies and rats. Perforated steel plate with scaff netting on the inside does the trick. What you have in mind will be "dry theory", of course, and presumably just a single chamber. "Dry theory" reduces smell problems. However, all the compost toilets I've built have been vented by either a pipe or a double wall at the back to take any smell up high and into a hedge or whatever. That's mainly venting the active chamber of course (there being air circulation between the two). Not so practical in most situations beside a canal, though. I guess protected air vents at the bottom and something similar to the carbon filter your fancy toilet has near the top might work. The ultimate answer to smell, though, is a layer of wood ash. Strictly wood ash, I hasten to add, not coal or coke if you're hoping to make useable compost. As you'll gather from the above, a composting system does need to be managed. Just a big pile in a box isn't likely to work. However, maybe the best solution beside the canal WOULD be just a big pile in some sort of sealed steel box or skip, with just small flaps to open, empty your stuff and close again. Those boxes or skips can then be lifted, taken away and emptied in some suitable place to be properly managed and produce good compost. A working canal boat with a small crane for this job? That would certainly be better than a lorry driving them along roads.
@@deth3021 If you have access to a proper composting site near the canal, that is not affected. But such places are few. What was happening was that the stuff was being double-bagged and put in with the general waste. In other words, not composted at all.
Good one. Glad you made the effort to highlight this. CRT will cause untold issues with this mandate. They will force the issue underground (ie digging a hole where possible and burying) but more often than not, inconsiderate dumping, using private skips, household bins, street bins etc. in urban areas etc. Stopping the use of Biffa bins is not fixing the issue, it's just pushing it elsewhere. Saying that, it's highlighted the need for people to actually compost on board. It takes less space and resources than many think. I will still get a similar loo when I move on board. If there's no alternative, I'll compost completely, however I'm working on a system to turn the compost into briquettes which will be burnt on the fire. I'm still doing trials at the moment, but I think it could be a simple, workable and effective solution. Saves on coal and wood too...
@@phenogen8125 I doubt we'll see more pump out facilities, I think a more likely future will be CRT removing waterside pump outs and telling everyone to go to the marinas. Less hassle for them and more profit for the marinas.
@@phenogen8125 There is no disposal system that doesn't have some environmental impact. We use quantities of treated clean water to flush our poo away. Our rivers and coastline are suffering from untreated discharge every time there is a storm, incinerating uses fossil fuel to cook the contents, humanure going to landfill adds to the creation of methane (as does any organic material, so if any of your food scraps are going into Biffa bins that's adding to that problem). Arguably composting is the only approach that does have integrity! The current problem has been entirely caused by CRT recommending that separating toilet users bin their dry waste not by those who fully compost.
@@phenogen8125 As far as CRT's stance is concerned, I would agree with you - other than it was them who created the issue in the first place. If they hadn't carried the recommendation to bin on their website for just over three years those of us who have been composting for years would have continued to tell people that it's 'fully compost or stick with the potta porti'! We are very much of the view that this will prove a good moment to sort the confusion out and get good practice going. If you're hoping that several hundred people will throw away up to £1000 of loo (Separett and Airhead may even be more than that) and install a pump out I fear you may be disappointed. CRT are concerned about the pressure on the system - everything from sheer numbers to the self pump outs and/or wet wipes that overwhelm and block elsans. They aren't going to magically provide composting facilities but they are definitely open to innovation. You mentioned a travelling pump out boat (there is one, on the lower GU), there is a project in development that started as a PhD study at UCL to collect humanure from boats for central composting. And collecting dry bagged humanure is a lot more pleasant and safer than raw sewage.
Throwing away in trash bags adult as well as baby diapers is same difference as any bagged poo. Just rubbish. By the way for Real composte don't use disinfectants..because that kills the left over bacteria from working. Air 24/7 running & turning compost with handle with every use. Using peat moss or coconut kor doesn't smell.if you have a tumbling barrel you can transfer compost in turn regularly to let cook for 8 months etc., can now use as compost for flowers, shrubs, & any plants not to be a food sourse.
If you are having to empty your compost loo every ten days that is about the same as your cassette toilet, as you said in your vlog. You obviously didn't do your research very well because composting takes time to break down, a lot longer than ten days. Maybe you should have stayed with the cassette toilet because the disposal facilities are already in place. What you didn't take into account is how CRT's waste contractors have to do to remove the rubbish, by putting human waste into the general waste bins, which then go into bin lorries which then compacts the waste, it can then burst out of the bags and then seep out where ever the vehicle goes. Basically spreading sh#t around. The facilities are already there for pump out and cassette, use the infrastructure that's already in place.
I'm not in UK these days, so have not encountered these compost loos first hand, although I've looked at the "tech". From the first look I was left confused since I remember we had a large compost system in the garden as a kid. Everything from the garden and a lot from the kitchen went in this 8 ft x 8 ft construction and about once every 6 months a lower portion would be removed, the now composted material from the bottom would be dug out for use on the garden and the hole reclosed. It really is not compost until it has really had time to process naturally - a long time. I saw these compost toilets advertised and talked about on narrowboat vlogs and wondered where to keep the stuff until it had become compost and then where to utilise it given the most a narrow boat has is a few plant pots on the roof. Then I saw that people were bagging and binning and thought this is not going to end well. I also realised that dumping it down elson points wasn't going to work because the sawdust content is likely to bind it all together into nice sewer pipe blocking clumps. I was also curious about what is done with the bottles of urine. When we go for a walk in the woods if taken short a quick diversion off the path results in a small amount of free urine - only a small amount, so in general nature can handle it. 6 litre bottles of aging urine perhaps with added disinfectant is pure poison when dumped in the open. It seems that the way these toilets are used is the complete opposite of going green. In fact unless anyone can prove they are keeping the waste for the 6 moths it takes to break down properly and that they are then using it properly on the land then they should not be called composting toilets. I understand there are systems beginning to emerge that use osmosis based tech to render urine so pure it can be discharged into the canal (or even drunk if you so wished) For solids their are micro incinerators but I fail to see any green credentials in that either - it requires fuel to burn the waste and it is done at a very high temperature to avoid smoke and smell. I see it as a serious problem in the long term - especially as the number of continuous cruising boats increasing. I know the above is a negative but it is not intended as such. I believe that if a solution is not sorted then the canal and river trust will be under pressure from government to clean things up and to cover than boating licenses could drastically increase in price. Even centralised "compost" drop off points will be difficult. If too much in one place it will tend to stink instead of turning to compost unless some very expensive tech in employed and then neighbouring land owners won't want it. If it is hard to provide sufficient elsan points which just need a mains sewerage pipe and a water supply are hard to provide in sufficient numbers then a new system for an extra set of problems is going to be even harder. I don't pretend To have an answer for narrowboat sized utilisation (I do have one I had to design for some floating chalets 30 years ago that runs on 12V and with an end result certified clean to discharge into waters subsequently used for water to water works for piped domestic supply, but that could not work on canals due to size.) I think that for now toilets and power gen will remain the two biggest issues for narrowboaters. Annoy your brother at your peril - you are shortening the number of times he will offer to help you!
Loads of opportunities for someone to make money: several semi-centralised composting locations for drop-off, perhaps a service (much like the coal and fuel delivery boats-but taking away) to fetch and haul in more removed areas…interesting conundrum.
Why can't CRT just add a special bin at each of the facility stops? Then sell or gift it on to those who use compost materials. It has to have some value to someone. I used to live near a factory that manufactured flower pots out of compost and sludge. You do have to not think about what it WAS but what it's recycled into. You're handling it well without the hysterics. Well "handling it" may not be the right phase
A special bin would probably require a separate key, or else standard rubbish would overflow the special bin from careless boaters that don't want to return to their boats with their garbage if all the other bins are full....................................rj
I'm saddened to hear that composting is being dealt a blow when it is supposed to be eco-friendly. I like the idea of having deposit (pun intended) points, but if, as you do, double bagging in plastic bags that take a millennium to decompose is not eco-friendly. There needs to be specialised bags or containers that also decompose. I'm not sure paper bags are going to cut it.
The point is that composting toilet waste dumped in regular waste bins- as it is at the moment- is far from eco friendly! Do you honestly think the waste contractors employed by CRT separate the waste and compost it? No, it ends up in landfill or an incinerator. Calling this type of toilet a composting toilet is a complete misnomer- they don’t compost- that’s a process than takes months and needs separate facilities. It’s far more green to use the traditional disposal methods provided- Elsan points drain to sewage plants or septic systems where waste is properly and hygienically treated. In many cases that will be by a modern sewage plant where solids are recovered, digested and used to make both biogas and fertiliser- it doesn’t get greener!
Hi Sam and Tim, I am hoping to close a deal on my very own Narrowboat the 1st of April. Your vlog about composting toilets is great but devastating news for me as that was the very first thing I wanted to change post purchase. I am anticipating the CRT will have to act fairly quickly as you point out there is not much to do in terms of making room for disposing of such waste. Not much different to horse manure in a pile. As composting toilets are very popular they must have it in hand as it’ will not be convenient to locate a general council waste tip. All they need to do is place a large bin similar to a household garden waste bin at each Elsan station and empty it on a regular basis. Since the councils have complained they should provide an appropriate alternative in my opinion. Fliss
Hi Fliss, thanks for your comment. That's very exciting that you're moving onto your boat soon! We will see what will happen with the composting, hopefully this will all get sorted. If you see us on the canals come and say hi 👍🙂🌟
@@antonyjh1234 Hi you are absolutely correct there is a huge difference between the two. However, I meant by referring to a horse manure tip. I was loosely suggesting that there are companies that deal with environmental waste. A tank or container could be placed in the areas where you can get water or empty cassette tanks and could be removed as needed. As the composting toilets are becoming more popular and better for the environment it seems poor planning for the RCT not to embrace it rather than attempt to ban them which may cause further problems down the line.
@@antonyjh1234 Hi, point taken. Obviously, you would have to use composting bags the same as you do when getting rid of vegetable waste. It sounds like I am blaming CRT and the councils. The point I am making is composting toilets are very common and there are solutions that can be incorporated to get rid of this problem whilst looking after the environment and ensuring it’s safe. I work in a hospital and know there are companies that deal with environmental waste. Obviously, this will of course come with a cost. But what doesn’t? Fliss
I like a sit-down wee sometimes. Take the weight off, appreciate a few minutes of Doing Nothing. Stare into space and empty your head at the same time.
your compost toilet is far too small for 2 people to use they should be big enough to last 4-6 months then you can dispose of the contents in a wooded area. you need to do more research. you need one with a paddle that mixes the compost after its used every time
They used to have "night soil" collectors in London back in the 18th century, then take this to farms - bring this back! The eco lifestyle is important to a lot of boaters so this would be really cool initiative. Wonder if you could have a night soil collection in the same way that there are fuel boats? but then I guess you would have to ration your excrement in the same way that you ration your fuel...
It's definitely a business opportunity! Just like fuel boats, why not poo boats? Cruise up and down the canals, collect the product (for a fee) and deliver it to a disposal or use facility.
Hi another good vlog just thought I might say please please please please please please please please please stop calling them compositing toilets this just causes confusion they can be called dry toilets, waterless toilets,or collection units no composting goes on in the toilet Kate from the Facebook group always explains this to Crt when she deals with them and this statement you are going by from Crt is Not a rule it is just what the person writing that article thanks they have to have meetings and votes before they can change the rules so for the time being it all stays the same.I see on Facebook this morning somebody has found another elsan blocked by sawdust I hope this is just a mistake by somebody and not a idiot trying to make a point about not putting it in the bins as this will not help anyone
I think the Composting loo's are a big con, because people are not using them as "composting" toilets. You are dumping your solids into household waste bins without a thought for the people that have to emty them. Can you imagine the smell and health risks when all those bin bags of waste explode when the bin men switch on the crusher? .Also your idea of sites along the cannal were you can empty your waste, are you going to empty your waste out of the bags first? Hmmmm i would love to live near that....... Unless you are using a composting toilet to actualy compost your waste you are creating a problem..... In a past life i lived on the road and we would dig a hole in a field and go there. Also if you have a wood burner solid waste burns. I can see in a few years cannal towpaths will smell of urine and poop.............
On the bike power idea.... An average fit-ish person is only going to generate approx 100watts, when riding hard. Both of you peddling yourselves to death for 20 mins, is only going to run a single laptop for an hour. But if you were plannin to exercise that way anyway and have the generators available cheap, it could be a fun project. (I recall seeing a piece on TV long ago, where a guy had set up a bike powered generator to charge a battery, that ran a TV for the kids. For an hours exercise, they got an hour TV.) Personally I'd prefer to ride to go somewhere interesting, then spend 10p on petrol for the generator that will give you the equivilent amount of charge!
@@chuggingalong don't even say that, right now some govt authority somewhere has read this comment and is organising random canl side breath testing 🍸🍸
Dear Tim and Sam, we have a toilet and business solution for you. Wouldn't it be nice if you could leave your full toilet cassette on deck and someone else could take it and leave a clean one in its place? Like the coal and fuel traders, a narrow boat could chug down the canal to boats that have signed up for the service, collect their full cassettes and leave a new clean one. The toilet boat ("Switch-a-poo?") would then empty the cassettes at the Elsan points and clean them, ready for the next use. Even if you are not home, you could still leave your cassette on deck and find a new clean one when you return home. Your friends Rick and Heidi, Ottawa Canada
Ah, the 'Night Soil Man'. Back to the Victorian era! Residents of Honeypot Lane in Husbands Bosworth, Leics, will have been familiar with him. They had a sense of humour there back in the day. It leads to the sewage farm nowadays (and the canal), but it was where all the waste was taken in the good old days.
Urea is a fertiliser. It is beneficial to the wildlife and plants. Shit is fine as long as it is away from rivers. Farmers spread cow shit right next to rivers too! (They’re not supposed to) muck spreading is allowed further than 10 metres from a river and over 50m away from a spring or drinkable water. If you stick to these rules, you’re fine.
I come from fields and jobs where poop is black gold. I'd need more data, but I think it's possible to come up with a composting system that's canal side and doesn't require further collection like rubbish and recycling do. Three or four bins, their size dependant on location and expected use, would be colour coded. Blue = Jan-Mar, or some other system that's easy and boater friendly. Throughout the system, boaters would fill that bin for those three or four months, then move to a different coloured bin after. Each bin would then have nearly a year to compost, and utilizing various macro and micro organisms this process can be sped up or modified as needed. At years end the finished compost can be safely used to remediate the soil and plants around the canal, shared amongst boaters, donated, sold or simply left in the bin as most of the original volume will have been reduced. Bins could be above or below ground and made of recycled materials. Either aerobic or anaerobic processes can be used, though aerobic is more costly but won't produce odor while anaerobic is cheaper and simpler but quite smelly. It would take time to establish, and require a united effort by boaters, but think it could work. I also think it should be a fairly closed circuit system to reduce complication and be more inline with nature. Locations could also be taken up or adopted by local towns, clubs, schools/uni, etc., and decorated, themed, used as test beds to experiment with novel approaches or solutions, or go towards supporting worth while causes or needs like community gardens and co-op farms.
Really useful comments. I always think we have to look at other areas, industries and adapt. At Laverstock organic farm they take green garden waste and sell it as compost after only 6 weeks. As opposed to 12months in a compost bin. As you say it takes energy. There is a lot if wasted energy at each lock when they fill. Perhaps that could be utilised.
I would think that if the compost was used as soil amendment, boaters could add other organic garbage (like banana peels) to reduce the stress on the normal garbage collection system.
@@jamessprandel7020 Ideally you'd have two compost bin options; one for human waste and another for general composting. Human waste is quit toxic and has special guidelines and codes for handling and disposal so it might easier to separate the the two.
Harvey's Bristol cream sherry girl myself!!!! CHEERS! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I want you to do the app, because more than anything I want it to be called "Soil Yourself!" That is hilarious (and very clever play on words)!!! Although it would be a crap job!!! 🤣
I think this is a difficult question because it seems to me there is no good way to have a toilet on a boat. Human waste can have diseases in it and so I have always been surprised that boaters say they just toss into the trash bins. Gross!!! I live in California and will never get to be on a narrowboat, so I find it fascinating all the styles of boats and how people live full time on them, but I think the whole toilet thing is a huge drawback. I could never empty cassettes (gagging just thinking about it) and I don't know if I could handle the compost toilet either. Too bad those electric ones aren't practical for a boat. They incinerate your deposits and just leave a little ash. I have only ever seen one boat with one. I don't know how you would run it when out on the canal. It's also too bad they can't have a boat come around to do a pump out. I would think a pump out would be the best for me but then you are riding around with a septic tank full of waste on your boat. Lucky thing for me I will never have to make this choice. LOL!!!
You made my day. I wasn't expecting to see you this week and was surprised to see your lovely faces. I think the CRT has created more problems for themselves and the community by saying you can't use the bins before they had a solution. It has to go somewhere, so now what are boaters going to do? Not everyone will be considerate or give a .... It might be up to young people like you both to put your heads together and come up with a solution. Stay positive we love you.
I disagree Penney sorry. They are saying quite rightly that the bins are provided and should only be used for the purpose of rubbish removal not human waste. Now don’t flame me because we love them and the convenience but the infrastructure isn’t in place yet. For the same reason I wouldn’t buy an electric car for at least 5 years.
Penney Noss it’s the boaters that have made the problem. The waste takes at least six months to compost down with oxygen to assist the process. Bagging it up and sealing it in plastic bags after 4 to 7 days it won’t decomposed. Boaters need to store it unbagged for six months and then it will be safe to dispose it. If boaters do not wish to empty there cassettes at a Elsan point then they should move back into bricks and mortar.
@@pippashaw8224 No the CRT need to give out compostable bags or we buy them and then dump them instead. Buy compostable bags from the start?I have a cassete. The burner toilets are the best option but they are over £2500
I once did a boating holiday on the canal di midi France 🇫🇷 there wasn’t any problem with loo’s on the hire companies boats? When I ask about emptying points I was told the toilets all dumped straight into the canal.😱 We had the boat for two weeks and I have to say I wasn’t keen on touching ropes that had got wet. I believe now they have proper pump out points. We hired a canal boat on the Cheshire ring canal 40 years ago and that boat had a big black water storage tank that lasted two weeks with 4 adults and four children on board, I don’t understand why live on board boats aren’t equipped in the same way. I definitely agree with other post that putting one shit in the rubbish bin is Not acceptable, in fact I’d go so far as to say it’s a very selfish unhygienic practice.
So these composting areas, do you suggest the waste is left in the triple black bags or would you just decant it into a massive fly blown pile? I really cannot image what they would look like. What we really need is a system where liquified waste can be tipped or sucked from the boat into an existing sewer system, we could call them Elsans, or pump outs. Hang on a minute.🤔
Hi Phil, thanks for your comment. There's definitely an argument that the old guard of cassettes and pump outs are here to stay and composts have hit a brick wall 👍
@@chuggingalong I thought about one for my boat when they first became popular, they do cure some of the problems cassette and pump outs have but in doing that create a whole new set of problems. If you had a cabin in the woods they would be perfect, but on a boat, not so much.
Phil, in my opinion you’ve hit the nail on the head. The most efficient/hygienic disposal system for the human waste generated on the network already exists. It’s not pleasant, and facilities could/should be better. Investment should focus on improving and maintaining the pump-out/elsan system, not trying to reinvent the wheel. If large containers for ‘dry’ waste were sited at Elsan points can you imagine the state of it in the summer when they are full to overflowing? And if the energy expenditure for removing and processing this type of waste is greater than the net benefit to the environment, what’s the actual point?
There are plenty of us who burn our solid toilet waste in the stove. As long as the stove is already hot, it doesn't take long for everything to be reduced to a tiny amount of ash. If it has already mixed with sawdust it will be fairly dry. I also mix a small amount of diesel into it to help the process along. Its only a matter time before crt ban chucking ash in the hedge though.
Is it poo week in the vlog department? First we had Holly the café boat taking three cassettes 5 miles by canoe to an elsan point as they were locked in by stoppages, and now this vlog! Who's next? I have always said that toilet talk is one of the most discussed boater subjects. Sorry I'm going to stick with my 3 cassettes. After all that a great vlog.
Hi guys, I am considering moving back to the UK from Vietnam after spending 14 years as a teacher. Do you have any recommendations for online teaching companies that don't mind boat dwellers, and the associated possible internet problems? Thanks a million.
On the subject of power use, the suggestion about a water wheel is not so far fetched. There are micro hydro turbines that can generate power while a boat moves through the water. The problem is their cost. I think the boating community could come together and investigate the development of inexpensive versions that can work (1) while boat is moving and/or (2) when the flow of the canal or river can generate power. So that is my landlocked liver contribution to the brilliant narrowboat community.
I would guess that the amount of additional drag caused by any kind of turbine in the water while the boat was moving would far more than offset any gain in power. Yes, it would generate power, but at the cost of using more diesel to make up for the additional drag. Same reason why putting a wind turbine on top of your electric car doesn't result in perpetual motion. Those pesky laws frictional loss, efficiency, and entropy and such. But I had thought about having one when you're in a flowing river; that might work. Although I think most micro-hydro setups tend to funnel the water flow into a restricted area so your turbine doesn't have to be the size of a paddle wheel on a riverboat to work. We're looking at moving to the UK and living on a narrowboat in the relatively near future, but as yet I have no personal experience. One thing I also wondered about would be the option of having small vertical-axis wind turbines, possibly on telescoping poles, on the roof for when you're moored. Again, they'd generate additional drag when you were cruising, depending on the wind direction, so you'd probably want to take them down if you weren't stationary. I'd be interested to experiment with solar water heating as well.
As a chef I'm always interested in how you do your cooking on board. How long do your gas bottles last. What type of cooker do you have. And what type of foods do you cook. Do you find a particular food difficult/easy to cook?
Hello you two lovelies. Great conversation. Looking forward to broadening my sherry palate. Why compost your biz? At best 3mths to work? and bagging in plastic bags, and pouring a gallon of pee into a woodland every two days? NOT: greener, easier or simpler. After many years of camping, boating and motorhoming my simple, easy green way is......cassette toilette.....clear distilled vinegar. Works a treat! But please do not try it because for some reason supplies of the squirty bottle from super markets at 29p a bottle, lasting me easily one week (inc. the sink drain and waste water tank) are sometimes out of stock. 😎👍
From the Canal and River Trust *Boat toilet waste disposal* page; "From the end of December 2021 we request that no bagged solid waste from separator/compost toilets is disposed of in Canal & River Trust waste bins. We will continue to work with boaters and others to identify a sustainable solution for the disposal of this waste. March 2021"
What happened about this please? I’ve tried looking on CRT website and can’t find a recent clarification. Does this remain a no no? I’d really appreciate you building this in as a follow up when you can. Thank you for all the great videos !
As a Farmer with land bordering a Canal, I would be very angry if Narrow-boaters are disposing their sewage waste on my land. I would be more inclined to have a composting toilet built, but then there’s the question of plastic bags been thrown in. Then there’s the matter of leaching into the Canal. Oh dear, Ya damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
How would it be if 65,000000 people used them. According to Nick Clegg it takes 2500 years for a plastic bag to disappear. We pump out and it lasts a month. Who will pay for your eco area’s and do you think the general public will take to it the most regular visitors will be Seagulls. The composting toilets 🚽 currently for sale do not compost. We’ve heard CRT will make any bins payable for by the boater and via BSS
Only you two could present that in such a fun and brilliant way, love both of you!! One complaint...... as a beekeeper, disgusting of you calling it honey 😂😂😂 but then what can we expect from someone who can't cook!!
Hi guy's thanks for covering this subject I'm going to move to a canal boat and I definitely want a composting loo. Where are you going to dispose of your waste now? I will also be on the K & A. Mandy
Thanks for showing this, I'm thinking of getting one for the cottage and its difficult to see the size of the carbon bit on the website. Do you wipe around the inside bowl when you have used the loo, so that you can move the solids flap aside with a certain amount of hygiene. There is a business opportunity there for people to collect the waste from boats compost toilets and to take it to an offside composting site and then sell it, in addition to a small charge to boaters for removing the waste-just like on land.
Hi Guys, bag and bin is not good practice this is not actually composting in the true sense of the word with the biffa bins becoming full up with boaters fudge and bags splitting and giving the waste company the problems of disposing of this human waste, think the CRT Will ban this practice or charge you with an alternative arrangement. Regards Martin West. Keep Chugging still ....
Really the whole thing just comes down to the overpopulating of various parts of much of our planet . The eco system can accommodate various actions that 'attack' it within certain quantitative amounts ....beyond that the options to deal with a problem become ever increasingly destructive
Again, catching up on your vlogs. I’ve never understood why men stand up to go to the loo anyway. There’s far more chance of it splashing up and over the sides, etc, which is gross and unhygienic, so sitting down surely has to be far more hygienic. Why do men have a problem with it!
I find it incredible that anyone thinks it's ok to dump bags of crap in rubbish bins. What do you think happens to the rubbish in those bins? It might be all bagged up nicely when you chuck it in the bin, but where do you think it's going next? Personally I think misusing what should be an eco-friendly waste disposal method in this way shows a blatant disregard for public health, and I think the CRT are right. Compost toilets are a good idea if used properly, but the time involved in composting, and obvious logistical issues in the case of narrowboats, has evidently lead to a lot of people misusing them, to just bag up their waste and make it someone else's problem.
If they're spending money to create facilities for composting toilet waste, wouldn't it be better to spend that money on more and better-maintained ELSAN points? Since the lack of investment in ELSAN points was the cause of people adopting composting toilets in the first place.
Okay, so my question is: what happens to the water that goes down the shower drain? (asking for a friend that occasionally opens a small jar of honey in the shower 😂🫣)
Sadly the only practical solution ethically, is to install an incinerating toilet. Expensive and power hungry but it is currently the only solution where you can practically deal with your own waste. We lived on our boat for 8 years and wouldn't have entertained anything other than a "composting toilet" aboard, note we were on an ocean going vessel not a narrowboat. If you think that somebody else is going to do all the leg work in creating a solution on the canal network for people who use "composting toilets" then I fear you are not being realistic. Note: To be entirely accurate they are not composting but desiccating toilets. No realistic composting takes place in these units and the manufacturers are selling people a pup by conning them into thinking their products have green credentials. The main advantage is that by separating solids from liquids reduces the odour almost completely. The fan attached to some is there merely to assist in drying the solid material.
I'm not surprised either. Always thought it a bit dodgy to put 'chocolate' in the standard waste bins from the point of hygiene, even if double bagged. I can't help wondering if it would be possible to fully compost the waste on a boat. I'm a wanna-be boater still at the research stage so not much personal experience. How much volume of matter is created per month by two people? ( Maybe I should install one at home to find out!) Could there be a storage solution that could be emptied every, say, 6 months? If so there would be plenty of time to find someone who might appreciate some free compost from time to time.
The fan for compost toilet...a small 12 volt computer fan use a tiny solar panel to power it. Check out "AIR HEAD" compost toilets they have a tiny roof 12 volt exhaust with a tiny solar panel on top to run 24/7....because the compost needs air circulation to work they also use a fine screen to keep white fly & gnats from getting in. For your existing system of using a scoup of sawdust each time, you can use horse pellets from a feed store they are odorless & cheap for the Honey Pot keep a spray bottle of mostly water vinegar or Pinesol.
Its a dilemma and as someone who does not have a boat, I can only imagine the problems this could bring. However as always in these types of conversation, some will just simply point the finger of blame at someone else and that's that. Large quantities of human waste bagged and put into domestic bins can in itself cause all kinds of problems in all kinds of ways. Contamination, handling, spillage, vehicle maintenance and disposal. As someone who has been in the waste industry for over 30 years, one of the worst things, other than a serious accident, that can happen to an operator is to have bagged poo squish out of the back of the vehicle and go all over the operative or all over the ground. These machines pack at about 2300lbs of pressure and anything partially liquefied can and does get past the rubber seals. Then there's the maintenance to think about, a truck breaks down and cannot discharge its contents before the fitters have to climb all over it and try to fix it, sometimes the load has to be ejected where the lorry is parked in order for the fix to take place, this could be at the CRT bin site resulting in human waste all over the place, in the open. Disposal usually takes place in landfill which must go against the whole principle of composting toilet waste, secondly, waste transfer stations will not permit high quantities of this type of waste on their sites . Waste carriers will be very unlikely to purchase a special vehicle for this type of offensive waste, yes, in the quantity being talked about, that is what it becomes, due to cost and lack of flexibility when programming in other areas of its daily rounds, you will not be able to keep it solely for CRT sites as its not financially viable to spend over £200.000 for a vehicle and have is use restricted. Every borough where the canal and river network crosses would need to buy one of these vehicles, never going to happen. Building a compost compound or silo for this type of waste comes into planning and different legislation needs to be applied. Compost bays need to have construction specifications to stop waste decomposing into the water table, they need to be lined to stop leachate, there needs to be an easy way to empty them, there has to be a way to clean them, no non biodegradable plastic bags can be used...... the list goes on. Its not all negative, the whole idea of compost toilets is a good one and the powers to be should take the time to explore this seriously as the waterways are fast becoming busier and busier and more live-aboards come on and the "Staycation" option erupts as we come out of C19. Something needs to be done, but I just feel its been done back to front, people are getting compost toilets before the facilities for disposal have been put in place. Keep on Chugging guys and I love watching on a regular basis....... Be Safe.
Considering the Government has just allowed multiple incinerator/power sites to be built burning things they should be recycling I can't see why if put in the right bags why the waste could not be put in a separate CRT bin to be incinerated. Also at a time when farm land has been over saturated with harmful chemical fertilisers surely composting human waste for food growth would be great and help the land recover.
Anyone with any experience in the care or health sector would realise that disposing of human waste in general bins is a hugely stupid and extremely dangerous practice. This is hazardous waste and should be disposed of in appropriate bins that are not going to be taken to landfill. Actually, I take back the above statement. Forget the bit about any care expereince, is it not just common sense? Sorry people but, seriously, think about it for a few seconds.
Looks like CRT has already decided you cant use the waste collection bins on their sites. And it might be they have made a wise decision in this. The waste in these bins goes to landfill and this is not the place to deal with raw sewage. As recently as 1950 poor sewage disposal was causing problems to public health. Might be best to stick with a cassette or a pump-out where your waste will be properly treated and safely disposed of. Just my opinion of course.
Yer nice vid about composting. I am really interested in changing to composting but as you mentioned their are no proper facilities and I do not want to dump my stuff if it can be harmful. I do have some friends in Cornwall who live on the land and have compost toilets. So I will get in contact with them and get the run down on what the right way is. I know there is a long time for you solid waste to decompose. Yes we all need to get our heads, if you pardon the pun, together. I will get back once I have found other info. All the best Chris
If people with composting toilets can't be asked to compost their waste, then why not have a compost bin at every CRT service area which needs a card to use and charges £5. Compost toilets or waterless toilets or "bucket and chucket" toilets are the most ecologically damaging choice for narrowboats so should cost the most. If you want to be ecofriendly then use the national waste treatment infrastructure, if you don't care get a compost toilet.
If you want to make an empire of poo, you'd better make the equivalent of a coal boat but for collection rather than delivery. People will pay happily for a simple solution.
Just tie the bag to the nearest bush, tree, fence. This appears to be the acceptable solution to many dog owners. Presumably the poo-bag fairy comes along later and cleans up on their behalf...
One consequence of pressuring dog owners to clear up after their dogs is that all council operated public litter bins go for incineration along with the contents of the dedicated dog waste bins - some councils encourage people to use either type of bin for dog waste now. Therefore, local councils are best placed to suitable provide bins at points where minor roads away from houses cross towpath accessible bridges. That sort of sensible solution seems a bit beyond bureaucracy Britain these days, but it is a public sanitation issue, and one that effects motorhomes and campers with composting toilets as well, who could equally use the same bins. The incremental cost to councils would be minimal.
Living on these boats are so much more work than i was aware of. Weed pots, compost toilets, leaking locks, finding moorings, avoiding noisy neighborhoods etc. I think you guys have taken on a major job. Very proud of you guys!! And no you can't take advantage of your big brother. He may come back for revenge! Sam what kind of sherry do you guys drink or recommend?
I see an opportunity to build a business and I would call it " Butty Bummy Boats", where you travel along the canals, and dry toilet owners pay a modest fee for them to deposit the contents by weight for a fee. 💩😂
Ours all end up being hot composted then getting put on a friend's fruit plots. Maybe not a solution if you move around a lot, but works alright for us
Hi ive used a compost toilet for 6 years now it's so easy. I have 3 buckets i line them with bio degradable liners when the first buket is full put the lid on and store for 3 months and continue with the cical this is now classified as fertilizer not surige, i then discard which helps the plants grow happy days,
Good thoughts. We use compost toilets at the farm and have honey and chocolate together. Composts faster that way. But there are still considerations for sanitation and you couldn’t just dump your load in a pile somewhere and leave it there, it would need some monitoring so it doesn’t leach pathogens into the environment and so it remains covered by sawdust gets aerated. Keeping critters out keeps the smell down too. I mean, it’s doable with a big enough facility or tumbling compost bins though. CRT are going to have to catch up with the times because the number of continuous cruisers and live-aboards seems to be increasing and compost toilets are great. I guess there’s always incinerating toilets but they’re expensive and use a lot of power.
Hi Elizabeth, thanks for your comment and that's very interesting that your composting toilets work well on your farm. Yes, we will see if the CRT / boaters themselves will adapt or go back to old ways 👍🙂🌟
From the sales pitches on the composting toilets- I was under the impression that separating the liquids from the solids keeps the smell down. The solids with the composting material is supposed to not smell at all.
@@ledzepcleo we’ve found close to zero smell with our compost piles. But I guess it depends how fast you empty your bottle and how warm the weather is. The liquid and solid together with the cover material have the right amount of moisture to compost fast and we have a dedicated pile just for human compost. It works surprisingly well, visitors are always amazed. We use the method of composting in the humanure handbook. I’m interested to see what the CRT come up with. 🙂
Crt has little money the waste from loos is expensive to dump and contaminates the rest of the waste. Boat licenses make up less than 20% of their income yet Navigation is most of the cost. I am afraid the only answer is up the boat licience from about 1k a year. (lot less than council tax)
I'd been thinking about this issue, buried poo takes three weeks to be eaten up in non clay soils. If you live outside a city then a simple funeral and memorial tree planting to hide what you are up to is the way forward.
Use compostable bags and take a spade along with you to dig a hole two spades deep drop your produce in to the hole cover with soil , choose either the 2nd 3rd 4th tree to the left or the right of where you are parked up. Feed the trees.
There are fuel boats. How about a compost boat that collects everyone's compost, processes it then sells it to markets and farmers as compost???? It could be named The Butt Buddie.
Very creative! I second the motion.
Haha! That's the kind of buddie we all need at the moment 😂👍🌟 Thanks for your comment
Something for you to do for extra income maybe?
There are boats including fuel boats that will pump out toilets and dispose of the contents safely and responsibly. Unlike dumping human waste (Biohazardous materials, which is illegal). Into bins.
The future will be that you will not get a Boat safety certificate if you do not have a cassette or pump out toilet on board.
Could be used in orchards or flower beds but i wouldnt suggest using in vegetable garden . To many pathogens that might not be killed.
Did I actually just sit and watch people drinking Sherry and talking about their loo? 🤣 brilliant vlog as always. X
Haha! Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for your comment Kelly 🙂👍👍🏾
Use a 50% white vinegar to 50% water in a spray bottle to clean the toilet. Agree with others on maybe easing up on disinfectant use. Well done for tackling this subject publicly though. Unfortunately money will always be the biggest hurdle but there are some great proposals here.
For our food waste, we buy compostable/ biodegradable bags, so just a thought, you could buy compostable bin bags for your toilet rather than using standard plastic ones.
@bootjesgek48 No, I know but either way bags will be needed, they might as well be ones that will breakdown at the same speed as the content.
Thanks for your comment Lydi, that's a good idea, we'll look our for them 👍🙂
I don't know if they've changed the compostable plastic bags but when they were first sold, they will only decompose when exposed to light and air, so in a dump situation they didn't always have time to decompose before getting covered up.
@@chuggingalong A Co-op just opened in our village and the bags you can use at the self service section are a decent size and biodegradeable - just looked and seem to be no holes - you could always use a plastic bag to cart them to the dumping place and tip biodegradable one out and reuse the placcy one.
Lydibrown as soon as you put and sealed even into one of these bags that you talk about the composting process is Halted until the bag and the contents get a supply of oxygen so the bacteria can break down the product.
The CRT should ask the Centre for Alternative Technology
Machynlleth Powys for advice on Composting human waste solutions, great bookshop too.
Hi S, that's interesting. We will see what the CRT will do next! Thanks for watching 🙂🌟👍
@@chuggingalong CRT are being helpful and are working with boaters from the 'Compost toilets for boats and off grid living'. I've had several meetings with them. They are supporting a pilot collection by Circular Revolution in London; we've worked with them to improve the info on their website and they are willing to give permission for community composting schemes on their land. Personally I don't think they are the right people to provide composting facilities - we've got quite enough trouble with the bins and blocked elsans!! And I've just come across someone who is looking at starting a collection service that might span your area, I'll send her over to watch :-)
I think drinking more sherry will solve this complex problem.
I have yet to watch the video, but I am quite sure you are right!
Haha! Great suggestion Roger. You should be running the country 👍🙂🌟
Tim you could name your composting company “ Pooping Along” just saying
Haha! Thanks Kevin, we are definitely going to be millionaires very soon 😂😂
Are ya going to be selling stock,basically your products will stink
Is it going to have a "POOP DECK" [Carry on film] lol. Another quote "where there is muck there's brass" a Yorkshire quote I think.
Firstly, as always, great video folks. You two would be naturals on the telly.
As a plumber, I'm always keen to make sure nothing I do contravenes the Water Regulations. In a nutshell, keeping any 'Class Five Contaminants' (ie No.2s) out of the clean water system is paramount. 'Composting Areas' full of No.2s would have to be very well designed to make sure that nothing gets back into the ground or contaminates the area around them. But we do already have them. They're called sewage farms!
Sadly, for the C&RT, I fear the idea is really not going to be practical, especially as after this crisis, there will be no spare money for anything.
But perhaps the two top chaps at C&RT, on a combined salary of £450,000 a year (remember that next time a volunteer tries to 'chug' you at one of their stalls), can come up with something.... Yes, I am cynical.
Anyhow. Roll on April 12th (Boris permitting) when we can actually do some chugging once more.
Hi Coddy, thanks for your kind words about our videos, we are glad your like them 🌟👍🙂
Hopefully there is quick and simple solution but yes, using the existing sewerage system like cassettes and pump outs seem like a better option at the moment.
Yes, roll on April (hopefully)
CRT are saving well over £1m per month in staff pay. By furloughing all their staff.
Sack the diamond cuff link wearing person at the top and that would free-up money for ar least10 composting facilities: that would be a start!
Having been a live aboard for 2 years now, I have yet to come across refuse points where general waste, dry recycling and glass only bins are respected. If people have so little regard for considerate recycling of general rubbish, what hope is there for considerate composting? And as for CRT providing compost heaps away from the canal, the logistical problems that would create are monumental. I’m now very glad I kept my pump out loo, as I was thinking about composting. Just feel sorry for those who thought they were doing the right thing by going down the composting loo route.
It can be a brilliant off grid system for boaters who have connections to a piece of land to take the properly composted compost to
Its not a sensible solution it is land contamination plain and simple 🤦🏻♂️ even if you own the land its not reasonable long term solution, it would be more reasonable for the CRT to provide 10 times as many toilet facilities
Human waste is considered a medical hazard as faeces can contain everything from Hepatitis to other hazards. Likewise urine contains everything from hormones through to remains from antibiotics which can leech into the land. The bags will also take a long time to decompose, whereas waste dealt with via the Rlsan will be dealt with as per the "norm". Love your honesty and your thoughts that you were being eco friendly too. Looking at this perhaps the Elsan costs need to be considered too by "da management".
Oh someone is a books believer.
Drinking chlorine is good for you.
Uranium for shelf life..
Dumping what is effectively sewage into household waste bins is not really on. These compost toilets waste need the correct and separated disposal points.
You guys are excellent and hilarious 😆❤🌱
Thanks Emily that's very kind of you 🙂👍🌟
I’m not surprised - it was always a grey area how compost toilets disposed of their waste. Dumping human waste in an uncontrolled manner is not acceptable and in any case - is that really “composting” ?
I was surprised when CRT started suggesting it in Nov 2017, until then it was always about fully composting and that's what I've always done (and encouraged others to do) - not only am I not dependent on elsan facilities but I'm producing compost not waste! But I do agree that dumping in an uncontrolled manner is unacceptable. I've done a lot of reading these last few weeks and learned how many thousands of litres of untreated sewage gets dumped in our rivers and coastline. 'Untreated human waste was released into streams and rivers for more than 1.5m hours in 2019' (Guardian July 2020). Raw sewage released on to English and Welsh beaches around 3000 times in 2019 (Surfers Against Sewage). When you get down to it, every toilet system has an environmental impact. Not that I am suggesting binning dry material from separator toilets should be acceptable and I am doing my absolute best to help those who find the goalposts have moved to grasp the nettle and get composting!
It's not composting at all, really. I think the companies that are selling these as "composting toilets" have some serious explaining to do, possibly in court, for misleading people into thinking their poop would magically turn to harmless garden soil in a matter of days in these toilets. It's really a scam.
Dog owners are legally supposed to PICK UP & BAG...DOG POO...THEN THROW AWAY......SAME THING
My big thing (and I've been fully composting for just over seven years on a cc'ing boat) is that there is no such thing as a composting toilet only a composting system! I'm trying really hard to get everyone talking about 'separating toilets' because that describes them so much better and starts to get us away from some of the confusion (eg that human poo is 'hazardous', it isn't - it's classed as 'offensive'). I don't think we're going to see CRT install a network of composting facilities because there would be lots of hoops to jump through (as well as the cost) but I think we might be able to persuade them to support some trial schemes around the system. I like your ideas - if you haven't already found it, come and join facebook.com/groups/compostingloos. It's the place with sensible evidence based discussion. And for anyone with a separating toilet who has been binning and now wonders what to do I am running a series of online workshops. Next one on Wed 10th.
I've built several compost toilets on land (straight on the ground on top of some straw and "wet theory" -without separation). 12 months is really the minimum for safe compost, so there's always an active chamber and holding one one where the pile is just sitting there for a year+. That holding chamber / composting heap needs air circulation, but the air inlets need to be protected from both flies and rats. Perforated steel plate with scaff netting on the inside does the trick.
What you have in mind will be "dry theory", of course, and presumably just a single chamber. "Dry theory" reduces smell problems. However, all the compost toilets I've built have been vented by either a pipe or a double wall at the back to take any smell up high and into a hedge or whatever. That's mainly venting the active chamber of course (there being air circulation between the two). Not so practical in most situations beside a canal, though. I guess protected air vents at the bottom and something similar to the carbon filter your fancy toilet has near the top might work. The ultimate answer to smell, though, is a layer of wood ash. Strictly wood ash, I hasten to add, not coal or coke if you're hoping to make useable compost.
As you'll gather from the above, a composting system does need to be managed. Just a big pile in a box isn't likely to work. However, maybe the best solution beside the canal WOULD be just a big pile in some sort of sealed steel box or skip, with just small flaps to open, empty your stuff and close again. Those boxes or skips can then be lifted, taken away and emptied in some suitable place to be properly managed and produce good compost. A working canal boat with a small crane for this job? That would certainly be better than a lorry driving them along roads.
Except the reason they wanted to compost was to not onoy be able to dump at special places...
@@deth3021 If you have access to a proper composting site near the canal, that is not affected. But such places are few. What was happening was that the stuff was being double-bagged and put in with the general waste. In other words, not composted at all.
Good one. Glad you made the effort to highlight this. CRT will cause untold issues with this mandate. They will force the issue underground (ie digging a hole where possible and burying) but more often than not, inconsiderate dumping, using private skips, household bins, street bins etc. in urban areas etc. Stopping the use of Biffa bins is not fixing the issue, it's just pushing it elsewhere. Saying that, it's highlighted the need for people to actually compost on board. It takes less space and resources than many think. I will still get a similar loo when I move on board. If there's no alternative, I'll compost completely, however I'm working on a system to turn the compost into briquettes which will be burnt on the fire. I'm still doing trials at the moment, but I think it could be a simple, workable and effective solution. Saves on coal and wood too...
Oh great to hear you will composting on board! This is definitely a bullet proof approach. Thanks for your comment 👍🙂🌟
@@phenogen8125 I doubt we'll see more pump out facilities, I think a more likely future will be CRT removing waterside pump outs and telling everyone to go to the marinas. Less hassle for them and more profit for the marinas.
@@phenogen8125 There is no disposal system that doesn't have some environmental impact. We use quantities of treated clean water to flush our poo away. Our rivers and coastline are suffering from untreated discharge every time there is a storm, incinerating uses fossil fuel to cook the contents, humanure going to landfill adds to the creation of methane (as does any organic material, so if any of your food scraps are going into Biffa bins that's adding to that problem). Arguably composting is the only approach that does have integrity! The current problem has been entirely caused by CRT recommending that separating toilet users bin their dry waste not by those who fully compost.
@@phenogen8125 As far as CRT's stance is concerned, I would agree with you - other than it was them who created the issue in the first place. If they hadn't carried the recommendation to bin on their website for just over three years those of us who have been composting for years would have continued to tell people that it's 'fully compost or stick with the potta porti'! We are very much of the view that this will prove a good moment to sort the confusion out and get good practice going. If you're hoping that several hundred people will throw away up to £1000 of loo (Separett and Airhead may even be more than that) and install a pump out I fear you may be disappointed. CRT are concerned about the pressure on the system - everything from sheer numbers to the self pump outs and/or wet wipes that overwhelm and block elsans. They aren't going to magically provide composting facilities but they are definitely open to innovation. You mentioned a travelling pump out boat (there is one, on the lower GU), there is a project in development that started as a PhD study at UCL to collect humanure from boats for central composting. And collecting dry bagged humanure is a lot more pleasant and safer than raw sewage.
ps but I confess to a sneaky sympathy with your view on widebeams!
Well, until further notice from CRT, you’ll just have to keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerp clenching...😁
😂😂😂👏👏👏 10/10
Love it. 20 mins of you guys drinking and talking shit and it was the best. Ty
Cheers for the cheers....enjoy. I must have fat-fingered my earlier comment and deleted it.
You could whip up a sherry trifle for the next vlog.
Hi Brian, great idea!! Hope you're well mate 👍🌟
Throwing away in trash bags adult as well as baby diapers is same difference as any bagged poo. Just rubbish. By the way for Real composte don't use disinfectants..because that kills the left over bacteria from working. Air 24/7 running & turning compost with handle with every use. Using peat moss or coconut kor doesn't smell.if you have a tumbling barrel you can transfer compost in turn regularly to let cook for 8 months etc., can now use as compost for flowers, shrubs, & any plants not to be a food sourse.
Dog poo bins is a great idea, the dog walkers don't use them so why not put them to good use.
Hi Ian, thanks for your comment. Yes it could be good but we fear they could get full too quickly 👍🙂
If you are having to empty your compost loo every ten days that is about the same as your cassette toilet, as you said in your vlog. You obviously didn't do your research very well because composting takes time to break down, a lot longer than ten days. Maybe you should have stayed with the cassette toilet because the disposal facilities are already in place. What you didn't take into account is how CRT's waste contractors have to do to remove the rubbish, by putting human waste into the general waste bins, which then go into bin lorries which then compacts the waste, it can then burst out of the bags and then seep out where ever the vehicle goes. Basically spreading sh#t around. The facilities are already there for pump out and cassette, use the infrastructure that's already in place.
I'm not in UK these days, so have not encountered these compost loos first hand, although I've looked at the "tech". From the first look I was left confused since I remember we had a large compost system in the garden as a kid. Everything from the garden and a lot from the kitchen went in this 8 ft x 8 ft construction and about once every 6 months a lower portion would be removed, the now composted material from the bottom would be dug out for use on the garden and the hole reclosed. It really is not compost until it has really had time to process naturally - a long time. I saw these compost toilets advertised and talked about on narrowboat vlogs and wondered where to keep the stuff until it had become compost and then where to utilise it given the most a narrow boat has is a few plant pots on the roof. Then I saw that people were bagging and binning and thought this is not going to end well. I also realised that dumping it down elson points wasn't going to work because the sawdust content is likely to bind it all together into nice sewer pipe blocking clumps. I was also curious about what is done with the bottles of urine. When we go for a walk in the woods if taken short a quick diversion off the path results in a small amount of free urine - only a small amount, so in general nature can handle it. 6 litre bottles of aging urine perhaps with added disinfectant is pure poison when dumped in the open. It seems that the way these toilets are used is the complete opposite of going green. In fact unless anyone can prove they are keeping the waste for the 6 moths it takes to break down properly and that they are then using it properly on the land then they should not be called composting toilets.
I understand there are systems beginning to emerge that use osmosis based tech to render urine so pure it can be discharged into the canal (or even drunk if you so wished) For solids their are micro incinerators but I fail to see any green credentials in that either - it requires fuel to burn the waste and it is done at a very high temperature to avoid smoke and smell.
I see it as a serious problem in the long term - especially as the number of continuous cruising boats increasing. I know the above is a negative but it is not intended as such. I believe that if a solution is not sorted then the canal and river trust will be under pressure from government to clean things up and to cover than boating licenses could drastically increase in price. Even centralised "compost" drop off points will be difficult. If too much in one place it will tend to stink instead of turning to compost unless some very expensive tech in employed and then neighbouring land owners won't want it. If it is hard to provide sufficient elsan points which just need a mains sewerage pipe and a water supply are hard to provide in sufficient numbers then a new system for an extra set of problems is going to be even harder. I don't pretend To have an answer for narrowboat sized utilisation (I do have one I had to design for some floating chalets 30 years ago that runs on 12V and with an end result certified clean to discharge into waters subsequently used for water to water works for piped domestic supply, but that could not work on canals due to size.)
I think that for now toilets and power gen will remain the two biggest issues for narrowboaters.
Annoy your brother at your peril - you are shortening the number of times he will offer to help you!
@yta ... brilliant comment, thank you
Loads of opportunities for someone to make money: several semi-centralised composting locations for drop-off, perhaps a service (much like the coal and fuel delivery boats-but taking away) to fetch and haul in more removed areas…interesting conundrum.
Hi Chory, yes we agree there's definitely a gap in the market!
You can maybe dig a hole in the forest
MARCEL. .Yeah, but who's forest?
👍👌🇨🇦❤ new sub, permission to come aboard
Why can't CRT just add a special bin at each of the facility stops? Then sell or gift it on to those who use compost materials. It has to have some value to someone. I used to live near a factory that manufactured flower pots out of compost and sludge. You do have to not think about what it WAS but what it's recycled into. You're handling it well without the hysterics. Well
"handling it" may not be the right phase
Hi Nat, thanks for your comment. Yes a seperate bin seems like the simple answer doesn't it, let's see if they do that 👍🙂🌟
A special bin would probably require a separate key, or else standard rubbish would overflow the special bin from careless boaters that don't want to return to their boats with their garbage if all the other bins are full....................................rj
I'm saddened to hear that composting is being dealt a blow when it is supposed to be eco-friendly. I like the idea of having deposit (pun intended) points, but if, as you do, double bagging in plastic bags that take a millennium to decompose is not eco-friendly. There needs to be specialised bags or containers that also decompose. I'm not sure paper bags are going to cut it.
most composting toilets come with a roll of compostable bags when you buy them and a link online to buy more .
Hi Derek, yes compostable bags seem essential. Thanks for your comment 🙂👍👍🏾
The point is that composting toilet waste dumped in regular waste bins- as it is at the moment- is far from eco friendly! Do you honestly think the waste contractors employed by CRT separate the waste and compost it? No, it ends up in landfill or an incinerator. Calling this type of toilet a composting toilet is a complete misnomer- they don’t compost- that’s a process than takes months and needs separate facilities. It’s far more green to use the traditional disposal methods provided- Elsan points drain to sewage plants or septic systems where waste is properly and hygienically treated. In many cases that will be by a modern sewage plant where solids are recovered, digested and used to make both biogas and fertiliser- it doesn’t get greener!
Hi Sam and Tim, I am hoping to close a deal on my very own Narrowboat the 1st of April. Your vlog about composting toilets is great but devastating news for me as that was the very first thing I wanted to change post purchase. I am anticipating the CRT will have to act fairly quickly as you point out there is not much to do in terms of making room for disposing of such waste. Not much different to horse manure in a pile. As composting toilets are very popular they must have it in hand as it’ will not be convenient to locate a general council waste tip. All they need to do is place a large bin similar to a household garden waste bin at each Elsan station and empty it on a regular basis. Since the councils have complained they should provide an appropriate alternative in my opinion. Fliss
Hi Fliss, thanks for your comment. That's very exciting that you're moving onto your boat soon! We will see what will happen with the composting, hopefully this will all get sorted. If you see us on the canals come and say hi 👍🙂🌟
Eye skipper, will keep a bottle of fortified wine on board for when we buck up lol 😂
@@antonyjh1234 Hi you are absolutely correct there is a huge difference between the two. However, I meant by referring to a horse manure tip. I was loosely suggesting that there are companies that deal with environmental waste. A tank or container could be placed in the areas where you can get water or empty cassette tanks and could be removed as needed. As the composting toilets are becoming more popular and better for the environment it seems poor planning for the RCT not to embrace it rather than attempt to ban them which may cause further problems down the line.
@@antonyjh1234 Hi, point taken. Obviously, you would have to use composting bags the same as you do when getting rid of vegetable waste. It sounds like I am blaming CRT and the councils. The point I am making is composting toilets are very common and there are solutions that can be incorporated to get rid of this problem whilst looking after the environment and ensuring it’s safe. I work in a hospital and know there are companies that deal with environmental waste. Obviously, this will of course come with a cost. But what doesn’t? Fliss
Hey Tim, don’t be ashamed of a sit down wee. As you get older you’ll start to appreciate the rest + time to think about your day...
I like a sit-down wee sometimes. Take the weight off, appreciate a few minutes of Doing Nothing. Stare into space and empty your head at the same time.
your compost toilet is far too small for 2 people to use they should be big enough to last 4-6 months then you can dispose of the contents in a wooded area. you need to do more research. you need one with a paddle that mixes the compost after its used every time
They used to have "night soil" collectors in London back in the 18th century, then take this to farms - bring this back! The eco lifestyle is important to a lot of boaters so this would be really cool initiative. Wonder if you could have a night soil collection in the same way that there are fuel boats? but then I guess you would have to ration your excrement in the same way that you ration your fuel...
Still had them in the early 1980s in Lincolnshire when we moved up there.
It's definitely a business opportunity! Just like fuel boats, why not poo boats? Cruise up and down the canals, collect the product (for a fee) and deliver it to a disposal or use facility.
@@roblloyd1879 As late as that? I remember my father describing night soil collection in the village they lived in when they got married in 1940.
Hi another good vlog just thought I might say please please please please please please please please please stop calling them compositing toilets this just causes confusion they can be called dry toilets, waterless toilets,or collection units no composting goes on in the toilet Kate from the Facebook group always explains this to Crt when she deals with them and this statement you are going by from Crt is Not a rule it is just what the person writing that article thanks they have to have meetings and votes before they can change the rules so for the time being it all stays the same.I see on Facebook this morning somebody has found another elsan blocked by sawdust I hope this is just a mistake by somebody and not a idiot trying to make a point about not putting it in the bins as this will not help anyone
I think the Composting loo's are a big con, because people are not using them as "composting" toilets. You are dumping your solids into household waste bins without a thought for the people that have to emty them. Can you imagine the smell and health risks when all those bin bags of waste explode when the bin men switch on the crusher? .Also your idea of sites along the cannal were you can empty your waste, are you going to empty your waste out of the bags first? Hmmmm i would love to live near that....... Unless you are using a composting toilet to actualy compost your waste you are creating a problem..... In a past life i lived on the road and we would dig a hole in a field and go there. Also if you have a wood burner solid waste burns. I can see in a few years cannal towpaths will smell of urine and poop.............
Hi Stephen, you're right that people aren't using them correctly. Let's hope that can change. Thanks for your comment 🙂👍🌟
On the bike power idea.... An average fit-ish person is only going to generate approx 100watts, when riding hard. Both of you peddling yourselves to death for 20 mins, is only going to run a single laptop for an hour.
But if you were plannin to exercise that way anyway and have the generators available cheap, it could be a fun project. (I recall seeing a piece on TV long ago, where a guy had set up a bike powered generator to charge a battery, that ran a TV for the kids. For an hours exercise, they got an hour TV.)
Personally I'd prefer to ride to go somewhere interesting, then spend 10p on petrol for the generator that will give you the equivilent amount of charge!
Hi again Gonzo, yes we definitely agree that an outdoor cycle is a lot better 😂🙂👍🌟 but cheers for the stats
Guessing that wasn’t Sam’s first glass of sherry . She seemed very tipsy 😂
Haha! There's no breathalysers on the canals 😅🙂👍🌟
@@chuggingalong don't even say that, right now some govt authority somewhere has read this comment and is organising random canl side breath testing 🍸🍸
Dear Tim and Sam, we have a toilet and business solution for you. Wouldn't it be nice if you could leave your full toilet cassette on deck and someone else could take it and leave a clean one in its place? Like the coal and fuel traders, a narrow boat could chug down the canal to boats that have signed up for the service, collect their full cassettes and leave a new clean one. The toilet boat ("Switch-a-poo?") would then empty the cassettes at the Elsan points and clean them, ready for the next use. Even if you are not home, you could still leave your cassette on deck and find a new clean one when you return home. Your friends Rick and Heidi, Ottawa Canada
Ah, the 'Night Soil Man'. Back to the Victorian era! Residents of Honeypot Lane in Husbands Bosworth, Leics, will have been familiar with him. They had a sense of humour there back in the day. It leads to the sewage farm nowadays (and the canal), but it was where all the waste was taken in the good old days.
How can I buy stock in Switch-a-Loo, Inc.?
Brilliant
Shouldn't be walking into someone's wood to dump human waste.
Most land by the canal is owned by farmers and it just ain't cricket to be doing that.
Urea is a fertiliser. It is beneficial to the wildlife and plants. Shit is fine as long as it is away from rivers. Farmers spread cow shit right next to rivers too! (They’re not supposed to) muck spreading is allowed further than 10 metres from a river and over 50m away from a spring or drinkable water. If you stick to these rules, you’re fine.
I come from fields and jobs where poop is black gold. I'd need more data, but I think it's possible to come up with a composting system that's canal side and doesn't require further collection like rubbish and recycling do.
Three or four bins, their size dependant on location and expected use, would be colour coded. Blue = Jan-Mar, or some other system that's easy and boater friendly. Throughout the system, boaters would fill that bin for those three or four months, then move to a different coloured bin after. Each bin would then have nearly a year to compost, and utilizing various macro and micro organisms this process can be sped up or modified as needed. At years end the finished compost can be safely used to remediate the soil and plants around the canal, shared amongst boaters, donated, sold or simply left in the bin as most of the original volume will have been reduced. Bins could be above or below ground and made of recycled materials. Either aerobic or anaerobic processes can be used, though aerobic is more costly but won't produce odor while anaerobic is cheaper and simpler but quite smelly.
It would take time to establish, and require a united effort by boaters, but think it could work. I also think it should be a fairly closed circuit system to reduce complication and be more inline with nature. Locations could also be taken up or adopted by local towns, clubs, schools/uni, etc., and decorated, themed, used as test beds to experiment with novel approaches or solutions, or go towards supporting worth while causes or needs like community gardens and co-op farms.
Really useful comments.
I always think we have to look at other areas, industries and adapt.
At Laverstock organic farm they take green garden waste and sell it as compost after only 6 weeks. As opposed to 12months in a compost bin. As you say it takes energy. There is a lot if wasted energy at each lock when they fill. Perhaps that could be utilised.
I would think that if the compost was used as soil amendment, boaters could add other organic garbage (like banana peels) to reduce the stress on the normal garbage collection system.
@@jamessprandel7020 Ideally you'd have two compost bin options; one for human waste and another for general composting. Human waste is quit toxic and has special guidelines and codes for handling and disposal so it might easier to separate the the two.
@dolymite The neighbours will love this idea
Harvey's Bristol cream sherry girl myself!!!! CHEERS!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I want you to do the app, because more than anything I want it to be called "Soil Yourself!" That is hilarious (and very clever play on words)!!! Although it would be a crap job!!! 🤣
I think this is a difficult question because it seems to me there is no good way to have a toilet on a boat. Human waste can have diseases in it and so I have always been surprised that boaters say they just toss into the trash bins. Gross!!! I live in California and will never get to be on a narrowboat, so I find it fascinating all the styles of boats and how people live full time on them, but I think the whole toilet thing is a huge drawback. I could never empty cassettes (gagging just thinking about it) and I don't know if I could handle the compost toilet either. Too bad those electric ones aren't practical for a boat. They incinerate your deposits and just leave a little ash. I have only ever seen one boat with one. I don't know how you would run it when out on the canal. It's also too bad they can't have a boat come around to do a pump out. I would think a pump out would be the best for me but then you are riding around with a septic tank full of waste on your boat. Lucky thing for me I will never have to make this choice. LOL!!!
Saw you on tv tonight!! Million pound barges. 😀👍
You made my day. I wasn't expecting to see you this week and was surprised to see your lovely faces. I think the CRT has created more problems for themselves and the community by saying you can't use the bins before they had a solution. It has to go somewhere, so now what are boaters going to do? Not everyone will be considerate or give a .... It might be up to young people like you both to put your heads together and come up with a solution. Stay positive we love you.
Such a lovely comment Penney, thank you so much. Yes, boaters putting our heads together can only be a good thing! 👍🙂🌟 keep chugging
I disagree Penney sorry. They are saying quite rightly that the bins are provided and should only be used for the purpose of rubbish removal not human waste. Now don’t flame me because we love them and the convenience but the infrastructure isn’t in place yet. For the same reason I wouldn’t buy an electric car for at least 5 years.
I don't disagree, I just think they should have some plan. It has to go somewhere. Have a great weekend
Penney Noss it’s the boaters that have made the problem. The waste takes at least six months to compost down with oxygen to assist the process. Bagging it up and sealing it in plastic bags after 4 to 7 days it won’t decomposed. Boaters need to store it unbagged for six months and then it will be safe to dispose it. If boaters do not wish to empty there cassettes at a Elsan point then they should move back into bricks and mortar.
@@pippashaw8224 No the CRT need to give out compostable bags or we buy them and then dump them instead. Buy compostable bags from the start?I have a cassete. The burner toilets are the best option but they are over £2500
Good stuff. ALL MEN at home or in a boat, any boat, should sit or kneel. Especially if you are 6'4"..............
I once did a boating holiday on the canal di midi France 🇫🇷 there wasn’t any problem with loo’s on the hire companies boats? When I ask about emptying points I was told the toilets all dumped straight into the canal.😱 We had the boat for two weeks and I have to say I wasn’t keen on touching ropes that had got wet. I believe now they have proper pump out points.
We hired a canal boat on the Cheshire ring canal 40 years ago and that boat had a big black water storage tank that lasted two weeks with 4 adults and four children on board, I don’t understand why live on board boats aren’t equipped in the same way. I definitely agree with other post that putting one shit in the rubbish bin is Not acceptable, in fact I’d go so far as to say it’s a very selfish unhygienic practice.
Probably the best toilet discussion ever!
Haha! Thanks for your kind words Mark. What a fantastic specialist subject we have 😅😂👍
So these composting areas, do you suggest the waste is left in the triple black bags or would you just decant it into a massive fly blown pile? I really cannot image what they would look like. What we really need is a system where liquified waste can be tipped or sucked from the boat into an existing sewer system, we could call them Elsans, or pump outs. Hang on a minute.🤔
Hi Phil, thanks for your comment. There's definitely an argument that the old guard of cassettes and pump outs are here to stay and composts have hit a brick wall 👍
@@chuggingalong I thought about one for my boat when they first became popular, they do cure some of the problems cassette and pump outs have but in doing that create a whole new set of problems. If you had a cabin in the woods they would be perfect, but on a boat, not so much.
Phil, in my opinion you’ve hit the nail on the head. The most efficient/hygienic disposal system for the human waste generated on the network already exists. It’s not pleasant, and facilities could/should be better. Investment should focus on improving and maintaining the pump-out/elsan system, not trying to reinvent the wheel.
If large containers for ‘dry’ waste were sited at Elsan points can you imagine the state of it in the summer when they are full to overflowing?
And if the energy expenditure for removing and processing this type of waste is greater than the net benefit to the environment, what’s the actual point?
There are plenty of us who burn our solid toilet waste in the stove. As long as the stove is already hot, it doesn't take long for everything to be reduced to a tiny amount of ash. If it has already mixed with sawdust it will be fairly dry. I also mix a small amount of diesel into it to help the process along. Its only a matter time before crt ban chucking ash in the hedge though.
Hi Ian, yes that's very interesting! Sounds effective. Thanks for your comment 😁🙂👍👍🏾
Is it poo week in the vlog department? First we had Holly the café boat taking three cassettes 5 miles by canoe to an elsan point as they were locked in by stoppages, and now this vlog! Who's next? I have always said that toilet talk is one of the most discussed boater subjects. Sorry I'm going to stick with my 3 cassettes. After all that a great vlog.
Hi Chris, great comment. Yes, sticking to cassettes is definitely a sensible option for now 🙂👍
Saw you on the telly........Million Pound Houses Barge special :D
Sit down pees are....the only way to go for me! But I sit facing the pedestal...just seems to work better...just sayin...
Propane fired incinerators are the way forward. I burned horse maure to heat a workshop for years. If it’s dry, it will burn
Hi guys, I am considering moving back to the UK from Vietnam after spending 14 years as a teacher. Do you have any recommendations for online teaching companies that don't mind boat dwellers, and the associated possible internet problems? Thanks a million.
On the subject of power use, the suggestion about a water wheel is not so far fetched. There are micro hydro turbines that can generate power while a boat moves through the water. The problem is their cost. I think the boating community could come together and investigate the development of inexpensive versions that can work (1) while boat is moving and/or (2) when the flow of the canal or river can generate power. So that is my landlocked liver contribution to the brilliant narrowboat community.
Hi Junco, that's very interesting. It's something we'd like to see in action 🙂👍👍🏾 Thanks for your comment
I would guess that the amount of additional drag caused by any kind of turbine in the water while the boat was moving would far more than offset any gain in power. Yes, it would generate power, but at the cost of using more diesel to make up for the additional drag. Same reason why putting a wind turbine on top of your electric car doesn't result in perpetual motion. Those pesky laws frictional loss, efficiency, and entropy and such. But I had thought about having one when you're in a flowing river; that might work. Although I think most micro-hydro setups tend to funnel the water flow into a restricted area so your turbine doesn't have to be the size of a paddle wheel on a riverboat to work. We're looking at moving to the UK and living on a narrowboat in the relatively near future, but as yet I have no personal experience. One thing I also wondered about would be the option of having small vertical-axis wind turbines, possibly on telescoping poles, on the roof for when you're moored. Again, they'd generate additional drag when you were cruising, depending on the wind direction, so you'd probably want to take them down if you weren't stationary. I'd be interested to experiment with solar water heating as well.
As a chef I'm always interested in how you do your cooking on board. How long do your gas bottles last. What type of cooker do you have. And what type of foods do you cook. Do you find a particular food difficult/easy to cook?
Hi Nic, we could definitely go into more detail in a future video. Thanks for the suggestion 👍🌟🙂
Hello you two lovelies. Great conversation. Looking forward to broadening my sherry palate. Why compost your biz? At best 3mths to work? and bagging in plastic bags, and pouring a gallon of pee into a woodland every two days? NOT: greener, easier or simpler. After many years of camping, boating and motorhoming my simple, easy green way is......cassette toilette.....clear distilled vinegar. Works a treat! But please do not try it because for some reason supplies of the squirty bottle from super markets at 29p a bottle, lasting me easily one week (inc. the sink drain and waste water tank) are sometimes out of stock. 😎👍
From the Canal and River Trust *Boat toilet waste disposal* page;
"From the end of December 2021 we request that no bagged solid waste from separator/compost toilets is disposed of in Canal & River Trust waste bins. We will continue to work with boaters and others to identify a sustainable solution for the disposal of this waste.
March 2021"
What happened about this please? I’ve tried looking on CRT website and can’t find a recent clarification. Does this remain a no no? I’d really appreciate you building this in as a follow up when you can. Thank you for all the great videos !
As a Farmer with land bordering a Canal, I would be very angry if Narrow-boaters are disposing their sewage waste on my land. I would be more inclined to have a composting toilet built, but then there’s the question of plastic bags been thrown in. Then there’s the matter of leaching into the Canal. Oh dear, Ya damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
How would it be if 65,000000 people used them. According to Nick Clegg it takes 2500 years for a plastic bag to disappear. We pump out and it lasts a month. Who will pay for your eco area’s and do you think the general public will take to it the most regular visitors will be Seagulls. The composting toilets 🚽 currently for sale do not compost. We’ve heard CRT will make any bins payable for by the boater and via BSS
Only you two could present that in such a fun and brilliant way, love both of you!! One complaint...... as a beekeeper, disgusting of you calling it honey 😂😂😂 but then what can we expect from someone who can't cook!!
Haha! Thanks Jilly as always! We would like to apologise to every one of your bees 🐝 and yes, you're right that Tim can't cook 😂👨🍳⛔
The statement from CRT makes a lot of sence. There is a real difference between sewage and compost. Nearly six months. 🤢 But you've got to keep on ...
Hi guy's thanks for covering this subject I'm going to move to a canal boat and I definitely want a composting loo. Where are you going to dispose of your waste now? I will also be on the K & A.
Mandy
The toilet situation on boats have a lot of room for improving, not enough points, and poorly maintained/cleaned facilities.
Thanks for showing this, I'm thinking of getting one for the cottage and its difficult to see the size of the carbon bit on the website. Do you wipe around the inside bowl when you have used the loo, so that you can move the solids flap aside with a certain amount of hygiene. There is a business opportunity there for people to collect the waste from boats compost toilets and to take it to an offside composting site and then sell it, in addition to a small charge to boaters for removing the waste-just like on land.
Hi Guys, bag and bin is not good practice this is not actually composting in the true sense of the word with the biffa bins becoming full up with boaters fudge and bags splitting and giving the waste company the problems of disposing of this human waste, think the CRT Will ban this practice or charge you with an alternative arrangement.
Regards
Martin West.
Keep Chugging still ....
What if you have runs 😂😂😱😅 and it mixes all, and when you pee you need to point in the botle? Sorry for gross question
Definitely annoying your older brother brilliant. If I wasn't using one already that would persuade me.
Really the whole thing just comes down to the overpopulating of various parts of much of our planet . The eco system can accommodate various actions that 'attack' it within certain quantitative amounts ....beyond that the options to deal with a problem become ever increasingly destructive
Would need around 20 160 MAH batteries and about 1000w of solar if I were a CCer TBH. I have to stay in a marina as I use around £3 electric a day
You know you can get those “honey jars” in sainsburys for 1.50 and they come with 5 litres of water 🙄
Again, catching up on your vlogs. I’ve never understood why men stand up to go to the loo anyway. There’s far more chance of it splashing up and over the sides, etc, which is gross and unhygienic, so sitting down surely has to be far more hygienic. Why do men have a problem with it!
I find it incredible that anyone thinks it's ok to dump bags of crap in rubbish bins. What do you think happens to the rubbish in those bins? It might be all bagged up nicely when you chuck it in the bin, but where do you think it's going next? Personally I think misusing what should be an eco-friendly waste disposal method in this way shows a blatant disregard for public health, and I think the CRT are right. Compost toilets are a good idea if used properly, but the time involved in composting, and obvious logistical issues in the case of narrowboats, has evidently lead to a lot of people misusing them, to just bag up their waste and make it someone else's problem.
what a lovely pair of folks..wierdly enjoyable..thank you
If they're spending money to create facilities for composting toilet waste, wouldn't it be better to spend that money on more and better-maintained ELSAN points? Since the lack of investment in ELSAN points was the cause of people adopting composting toilets in the first place.
Okay, so my question is: what happens to the water that goes down the shower drain? (asking for a friend that occasionally opens a small jar of honey in the shower 😂🫣)
Sadly the only practical solution ethically, is to install an incinerating toilet. Expensive and power hungry but it is currently the only solution where you can practically deal with your own waste. We lived on our boat for 8 years and wouldn't have entertained anything other than a "composting toilet" aboard, note we were on an ocean going vessel not a narrowboat. If you think that somebody else is going to do all the leg work in creating a solution on the canal network for people who use "composting toilets" then I fear you are not being realistic.
Note: To be entirely accurate they are not composting but desiccating toilets. No realistic composting takes place in these units and the manufacturers are selling people a pup by conning them into thinking their products have green credentials. The main advantage is that by separating solids from liquids reduces the odour almost completely. The fan attached to some is there merely to assist in drying the solid material.
I'm not surprised either. Always thought it a bit dodgy to put 'chocolate' in the standard waste bins from the point of hygiene, even if double bagged. I can't help wondering if it would be possible to fully compost the waste on a boat. I'm a wanna-be boater still at the research stage so not much personal experience. How much volume of matter is created per month by two people? ( Maybe I should install one at home to find out!) Could there be a storage solution that could be emptied every, say, 6 months? If so there would be plenty of time to find someone who might appreciate some free compost from time to time.
The fan for compost toilet...a small 12 volt computer fan use a tiny solar panel to power it. Check out "AIR HEAD" compost toilets they have a tiny roof 12 volt exhaust with a tiny solar panel on top to run 24/7....because the compost needs air circulation to work they also use a fine screen to keep white fly & gnats from getting in. For your existing system of using a scoup of sawdust each time, you can use horse pellets from a feed store they are odorless & cheap for the Honey Pot keep a spray bottle of mostly water vinegar or Pinesol.
Just bag it like you say, and throw it up a tree like the dog walkers do, no one seems to bother them.
Haha! Is that true that dog walkers do that? Never heard of it before 😂😅
I guess you could empty the compost bags into the Elsan point, but perhaps that would take away some of the convenience.
Its a dilemma and as someone who does not have a boat, I can only imagine the problems this could bring. However as always in these types of conversation, some will just simply point the finger of blame at someone else and that's that.
Large quantities of human waste bagged and put into domestic bins can in itself cause all kinds of problems in all kinds of ways. Contamination, handling, spillage, vehicle maintenance and disposal. As someone who has been in the waste industry for over 30 years, one of the worst things, other than a serious accident, that can happen to an operator is to have bagged poo squish out of the back of the vehicle and go all over the operative or all over the ground. These machines pack at about 2300lbs of pressure and anything partially liquefied can and does get past the rubber seals. Then there's the maintenance to think about, a truck breaks down and cannot discharge its contents before the fitters have to climb all over it and try to fix it, sometimes the load has to be ejected where the lorry is parked in order for the fix to take place, this could be at the CRT bin site resulting in human waste all over the place, in the open. Disposal usually takes place in landfill which must go against the whole principle of composting toilet waste, secondly, waste transfer stations will not permit high quantities of this type of waste on their sites . Waste carriers will be very unlikely to purchase a special vehicle for this type of offensive waste, yes, in the quantity being talked about, that is what it becomes, due to cost and lack of flexibility when programming in other areas of its daily rounds, you will not be able to keep it solely for CRT sites as its not financially viable to spend over £200.000 for a vehicle and have is use restricted. Every borough where the canal and river network crosses would need to buy one of these vehicles, never going to happen. Building a compost compound or silo for this type of waste comes into planning and different legislation needs to be applied. Compost bays need to have construction specifications to stop waste decomposing into the water table, they need to be lined to stop leachate, there needs to be an easy way to empty them, there has to be a way to clean them, no non biodegradable plastic bags can be used...... the list goes on.
Its not all negative, the whole idea of compost toilets is a good one and the powers to be should take the time to explore this seriously as the waterways are fast becoming busier and busier and more live-aboards come on and the "Staycation" option erupts as we come out of C19. Something needs to be done, but I just feel its been done back to front, people are getting compost toilets before the facilities for disposal have been put in place. Keep on Chugging guys and I love watching on a regular basis....... Be Safe.
Considering the Government has just allowed multiple incinerator/power sites to be built burning things they should be recycling I can't see why if put in the right bags why the waste could not be put in a separate CRT bin to be incinerated. Also at a time when farm land has been over saturated with harmful chemical fertilisers surely composting human waste for food growth would be great and help the land recover.
Anyone with any experience in the care or health sector would realise that disposing of human waste in general bins is a hugely stupid and extremely dangerous practice. This is hazardous waste and should be disposed of in appropriate bins that are not going to be taken to landfill.
Actually, I take back the above statement. Forget the bit about any care expereince, is it not just common sense? Sorry people but, seriously, think about it for a few seconds.
Looks like CRT has already decided you cant use the waste collection bins on their sites. And it might be they have made a wise decision in this. The waste in these bins goes to landfill and this is not the place to deal with raw sewage. As recently as 1950 poor sewage disposal was causing problems to public health. Might be best to stick with a cassette or a pump-out where your waste will be properly treated and safely disposed of. Just my opinion of course.
Let it dry out completely and then burn it. Log burner will have a new meaning. (Not joking by the way).
Yer nice vid about composting. I am really interested in changing to composting but as you mentioned their are no proper facilities and I do not want to dump my stuff if it can be harmful.
I do have some friends in Cornwall who live on the land and have compost toilets. So I will get in contact with them and get the run down on what the right way is. I know there is a long time for you solid waste to decompose. Yes we all need to get our heads, if you pardon the pun, together. I will get back once I have found other info. All the best Chris
If people with composting toilets can't be asked to compost their waste, then why not have a compost bin at every CRT service area which needs a card to use and charges £5. Compost toilets or waterless toilets or "bucket and chucket" toilets are the most ecologically damaging choice for narrowboats so should cost the most. If you want to be ecofriendly then use the national waste treatment infrastructure, if you don't care get a compost toilet.
If you want to make an empire of poo, you'd better make the equivalent of a coal boat but for collection rather than delivery. People will pay happily for a simple solution.
Just tie the bag to the nearest bush, tree, fence. This appears to be the acceptable solution to many dog owners.
Presumably the poo-bag fairy comes along later and cleans up on their behalf...
One consequence of pressuring dog owners to clear up after their dogs is that all council operated public litter bins go for incineration along with the contents of the dedicated dog waste bins - some councils encourage people to use either type of bin for dog waste now.
Therefore, local councils are best placed to suitable provide bins at points where minor roads away from houses cross towpath accessible bridges. That sort of sensible solution seems a bit beyond bureaucracy Britain these days, but it is a public sanitation issue, and one that effects motorhomes and campers with composting toilets as well, who could equally use the same bins. The incremental cost to councils would be minimal.
Living on these boats are so much more work than i was aware of. Weed pots, compost toilets, leaking locks, finding moorings, avoiding noisy neighborhoods etc. I think you guys have taken on a major job. Very proud of you guys!! And no you can't take advantage of your big brother. He may come back for revenge! Sam what kind of sherry do you guys drink or recommend?
A pretty good estimate of boatlife without a mooring is 'can you manage a part time job on tope of whatever else you are doing?' !!
I see an opportunity to build a business and I would call it " Butty Bummy Boats", where you travel along the canals, and dry toilet owners pay a modest fee for them to deposit the contents by weight for a fee. 💩😂
Ours all end up being hot composted then getting put on a friend's fruit plots. Maybe not a solution if you move around a lot, but works alright for us
Hi ive used a compost toilet for 6 years now it's so easy. I have 3 buckets i line them with bio degradable liners when the first buket is full put the lid on and store for 3 months and continue with the cical this is now classified as fertilizer not surige, i then discard which helps the plants grow happy days,
Good thoughts. We use compost toilets at the farm and have honey and chocolate together. Composts faster that way. But there are still considerations for sanitation and you couldn’t just dump your load in a pile somewhere and leave it there, it would need some monitoring so it doesn’t leach pathogens into the environment and so it remains covered by sawdust gets aerated. Keeping critters out keeps the smell down too. I mean, it’s doable with a big enough facility or tumbling compost bins though. CRT are going to have to catch up with the times because the number of continuous cruisers and live-aboards seems to be increasing and compost toilets are great. I guess there’s always incinerating toilets but they’re expensive and use a lot of power.
Hi Elizabeth, thanks for your comment and that's very interesting that your composting toilets work well on your farm. Yes, we will see if the CRT / boaters themselves will adapt or go back to old ways 👍🙂🌟
From the sales pitches on the composting toilets- I was under the impression that separating the liquids from the solids keeps the smell down. The solids with the composting material is supposed to not smell at all.
@@ledzepcleo we’ve found close to zero smell with our compost piles. But I guess it depends how fast you empty your bottle and how warm the weather is. The liquid and solid together with the cover material have the right amount of moisture to compost fast and we have a dedicated pile just for human compost. It works surprisingly well, visitors are always amazed. We use the method of composting in the humanure handbook. I’m interested to see what the CRT come up with. 🙂
Crt has little money the waste from loos is expensive to dump and contaminates the rest of the waste. Boat licenses make up less than 20% of their income yet Navigation is most of the cost. I am afraid the only answer is up the boat licience from about 1k a year. (lot less than council tax)
I'd been thinking about this issue, buried poo takes three weeks to be eaten up in non clay soils.
If you live outside a city then a simple funeral and memorial tree planting to hide what you are up to is the way forward.
Use compostable bags and take a spade along with you to dig a hole two spades deep drop your produce in to the hole cover with soil , choose either the 2nd 3rd 4th tree to the left or the right of where you are parked up.
Feed the trees.