Anyone ever notice that when you watch japenese newaza techniques you always see just the end of the technique, the finish per say. And when you watch brazilian jiujitsu its always the 20 steps that it takes to get in the finishing postion, but no real emphasis on the finish. thats why I think both kosen and bjj can greatly enhance each other.
There is no videos of ne waza specialist like in bjj. We always see only some skills uner demonstration format and never during real fight. So it's impossible to give an honest opinion on ne waza. The old ne waza tournament have no videos. It's sad but the kosen judo is dead. But I can affirm that the japanese were the monsters and their ability to create moves and variation were prodigious I think oda would destroy all bjj users with ease
@@yopyop8175 also why do you say kosen judo is dead when they hold championships in Japan non-stop since 1898 til today? lol heres a modern kosen judo class in japan skip ahead a few minutes to see their grappling/sparring th-cam.com/video/xwhXVkeSj-0/w-d-xo.html cheers
@@teovu5557 because the level is really low. If you watched some footage of ishikawa or masahiko kimura on the ground you will see a huge difference. These kosen judo are just a simple tournament for these guys. Before the kosen judo master give their life to the ground explaining their level of you look at te bjj there are so much monsters in the word. But in Japan kosen judo the only guys who do it are university students for short time
Great....i love the old school. Unfortunally is pratically impossible to train kosen here in Italy. I have found Just one school in Firenze, too faraway.
It is technically old Judo, but not the judo now with all the ridiculous ijf rules. Judo today barely resembles the time when Jigoro Kano was still around.
Jez Creed Not really. The acronym is usually a response by American Judokas who feel the need to insult BJJ and self-serve their closed-mindedness and insecurities. Kosen Judo involves a lot of pinning especially on side mount/control backed with a handful of submissions. It has a closer resemblance to Judo newaza than BJJ since Kosen Judo has closer relations with judo newaza rules considering that they use an identical reward system. There aren't a whole variety and flavors of guard work, submissions, and styles based on available footages of Kosen.
***** Dont forget all the ridiculous rules for gripping as of 2015 rules. And the feints are now penalized if a real throw doesnt follow up. Pure rubbish. Not here in Singapore, we only got competitive sports option. It is essentially the general judo here.
***** Kata is a given so i dont think its a relevant point. As for randori, that really depends, doesnt it. Most dojo I have been to, do stick with the rules even during randori because they want to be up to date and secondly everyone is always practising for competition. Judo is more of a sport than a combat art over here.
Good stuff here, as someone who trains in Bjj, and Catch wrestling this video is very informative on different submissions and attacks especially with Gi on.
Here in Taiwan, there are a couple of high level jiu jitsu judo teachers one is, I believe an 8th degree and one is a 9th degree red belt teaching the traditional jiu jutsu/judo including stand up and ground techniques
The Gracies and other non- Gracies taught by the Japanese called their style Jiu-jitsu because one day they probably asked their instructors Maeda and the other Japanese instructors he brought from Japan what the name of the art they were teaching is and they all said Jiu-jitsu. They didn't say Kano Jiu jitsu or Kosen jiu jitsu or Kano Judo or Kosen Judo or even Kodokan Judo because if they had then the Gracies would have proudly proclaimed they were defenders of either one of those schools. GJJ and BJJ is not pure Judo and not just because of their choice of throwing techniques which although not as technical as Judo and Sambo is sometimes more effective in a fighting situation than either; but because GJJ and BJJ is able to remove the handcuffs of tradition that bind styles and don't let them grow with the times as it were. They accept techniques that work from other styles such as wrestling and like scientists in a lab they continue to develop strategies and techniques that were not allowed in the confines of the traditional art. They also dispense with all the fancy titles and although some may find it disrespectful the Japanese language.The Gracies actually fall into that category. They consider themselves traditionalists and don't accept the new "stuff" coming down the pike as legit Jiu-jitsu. And it shows in their weaker style in competition. For me a pivotal moment was when Eddie Bravo beat the supposedly most technical Gracie, Royler in competition. Twice and badly. Eddie is a black belt under Jean Jacques Machado. He is an ok Musician, huge pot head and amazing BJJ innovator. He created his own, American style of no gi BJJ called 10th Planet and you have to research it to believe the names he gives the techniques. But for me he has changed the face of American BJJ. He was not supposed to be anywhere near Royler's level . In the match you can even see Royler using cheating methods before and during one of the matches. It really shows his character. But Eddie triumphs and makes a statement for evolution of technique, the limits of tradition and destroys the Gracie myth. Because of guys like Eddie Bravo and others America and the world is closing the gap on the Brazilians in competition. So in ending I disagree that GJJ and BJJ is JUDO although it shares a lineage. I think it is more of a bastard child , a hybrid art. Better in some ways, worse in others.
BJJ is not pure Judo. It is a hybrid style of Kosen Judo and wrestling. Is Kyokushin karate not karate because it combines karate and muay thai. Bjj fighters have beaten world class judoka in mma competion(Renzo vs Ben Spijkers, Nogueira vs Pawel Nastula a gold medalist who had a winning streak of 312 victories in competition, Silva vs Yoshida a legend in Judo. Very simple answer to BJJ vs Judo controversy. A competition with gi to the finish between the two. With each art bringing their best competitors.
+nbrace 8132 BJJ is definitely not pure Judo. The standup grappling is terrible, but their groundwork superlative. While BJJ fighters have defeated world-class Judoka, the same could be said the other way around. We could go back and forth all day. Instead of silly competition, let's embrace the differences in the arts.
Hyperborean Colonialism - How old are you to show that level of disrespect and ignorance. First of all I personally know and trained with one of Mario Sperry's early instructors before he went on with the Carson Gracie team. Look up Mestre Sergio Penha. Secondly, BJJ guys have always cross trained in whatever was available to them whether it was Judo, Wrestling, Greco-Roman, Karate and especially Capoeira. In Carson Gracie's team you can see they also had extensive training in the fundamentals of wrestling. So how does that make your argument any better since you can see in their fights they do not default to Judo as their art of choice but to BJJ and wrestling, beating top Judo guys like amateurs. So stop calling people idiots when it turns out you are the true idiot and probably a prison sentence waiting to happen.
Yes today bjj is mix of judo kosrn snd kodokan catch and freestyle wrestling eve luta livre(no gi) and sambo. Bjj until 70 there is side vontro moreira anc alvesband other brazilian who studies in japanese unviersities znd tought kosen put techniques to bjj. Also self defencd ov bjj is just old judo kata znd no gi is just luta livre
muuuuito bom..
essas tecnicas vai me ajudar bastante no meu jiu jitsu oss!
Anyone ever notice that when you watch japenese newaza techniques you always see just the end of the technique, the finish per say. And when you watch brazilian jiujitsu its always the 20 steps that it takes to get in the finishing postion, but no real emphasis on the finish. thats why I think both kosen and bjj can greatly enhance each other.
There is no videos of ne waza specialist like in bjj. We always see only some skills uner demonstration format and never during real fight.
So it's impossible to give an honest opinion on ne waza.
The old ne waza tournament have no videos.
It's sad but the kosen judo is dead.
But I can affirm that the japanese were the monsters and their ability to create moves and variation were prodigious
I think oda would destroy all bjj users with ease
@@yopyop8175 Plenty of kosen judo tournaments to watch....
th-cam.com/video/aVzCffoy5JA/w-d-xo.html
@@yopyop8175 also why do you say kosen judo is dead when they hold championships in Japan non-stop since 1898 til today? lol
heres a modern kosen judo class in japan skip ahead a few minutes to see their grappling/sparring
th-cam.com/video/xwhXVkeSj-0/w-d-xo.html
cheers
@@yopyop8175 heres another one from the 86th kosen judo tournament in the 1970s
th-cam.com/video/FrN4t2keLAM/w-d-xo.html
@@teovu5557 because the level is really low. If you watched some footage of ishikawa or masahiko kimura on the ground you will see a huge difference. These kosen judo are just a simple tournament for these guys. Before the kosen judo master give their life to the ground explaining their level of you look at te bjj there are so much monsters in the word. But in Japan kosen judo the only guys who do it are university students for short time
Great....i love the old school. Unfortunally is pratically impossible to train kosen here in Italy. I have found Just one school in Firenze, too faraway.
I love it. At his age he's great and for the 16 who gave this video a thumb down you obviously know nothing about great Judo and Grappling
great sensei master.... beautifull
6:09 TEA intermission? That was the shortest tea break ever!
Some Jodoka's refer to BJJ as 'Basically Just Judo'. This is a strong case for that!
It is technically old Judo, but not the judo now with all the ridiculous ijf rules. Judo today barely resembles the time when Jigoro Kano was still around.
Jez Creed Not really. The acronym is usually a response by American Judokas who feel the need to insult BJJ and self-serve their closed-mindedness and insecurities. Kosen Judo involves a lot of pinning especially on side mount/control backed with a handful of submissions. It has a closer resemblance to Judo newaza than BJJ since Kosen Judo has closer relations with judo newaza rules considering that they use an identical reward system. There aren't a whole variety and flavors of guard work, submissions, and styles based on available footages of Kosen.
***** Dont forget all the ridiculous rules for gripping as of 2015 rules. And the feints are now penalized if a real throw doesnt follow up. Pure rubbish. Not here in Singapore, we only got competitive sports option. It is essentially the general judo here.
***** Kata is a given so i dont think its a relevant point. As for randori, that really depends, doesnt it. Most dojo I have been to, do stick with the rules even during randori because they want to be up to date and secondly everyone is always practising for competition. Judo is more of a sport than a combat art over here.
***** ok now you're just trolling.
Good stuff here, as someone who trains in Bjj, and Catch wrestling this video is very informative on different submissions and attacks especially with Gi on.
Here in Taiwan, there are a couple of high level jiu jitsu judo teachers one is, I believe an 8th degree and one is a 9th degree red belt teaching the traditional jiu jutsu/judo including stand up and ground techniques
16:48 what just happened ?
Arigatogozaimass... sensei
Who the fuck thumbed this video down?
Bjj nada mais é do que o Newaza do Judo,so que simplificado e aperfeiçoado ;D
Judo>BJJ
This guy seems to know his Judo.
The Gracies and other non- Gracies taught by the Japanese called their style Jiu-jitsu because one day they probably asked their instructors Maeda and the other Japanese instructors he brought from Japan what the name of the art they were teaching is and they all said Jiu-jitsu. They didn't say Kano Jiu jitsu or Kosen jiu jitsu or Kano Judo or Kosen Judo or even Kodokan Judo because if they had then the Gracies would have proudly proclaimed they were defenders of either one of those schools.
GJJ and BJJ is not pure Judo and not just because of their choice of throwing techniques which although not as technical as Judo and Sambo is sometimes more effective in a fighting situation than either; but because GJJ and BJJ is able to remove the handcuffs of tradition that bind styles and don't let them grow with the times as it were. They accept techniques that work from other styles such as wrestling and like scientists in a lab they continue to develop strategies and techniques that were not allowed in the confines of the traditional art. They also dispense with all the fancy titles and although some may find it disrespectful the Japanese language.The Gracies actually fall into that category. They consider themselves traditionalists and don't accept the new "stuff" coming down the pike as legit Jiu-jitsu. And it shows in their weaker style in competition.
For me a pivotal moment was when Eddie Bravo beat the supposedly most technical Gracie, Royler in competition. Twice and badly. Eddie is a black belt under Jean Jacques Machado. He is an ok Musician, huge pot head and amazing BJJ innovator. He created his own, American style of no gi BJJ called 10th Planet and you have to research it to believe the names he gives the techniques. But for me he has changed the face of American BJJ. He was not supposed to be anywhere near Royler's level . In the match you can even see Royler using cheating methods before and during one of the matches. It really shows his character. But Eddie triumphs and makes a statement for evolution of technique, the limits of tradition and destroys the Gracie myth. Because of guys like Eddie Bravo and others America and the world is closing the gap on the Brazilians in competition.
So in ending I disagree that GJJ and BJJ is JUDO although it shares a lineage. I think it is more of a bastard child , a hybrid art. Better in some ways, worse in others.
Looks the same to me.
th-cam.com/video/HZ5q6MiRQJ0/w-d-xo.html
Principles are the same.
BJJ is not pure Judo. It is a hybrid style of Kosen Judo and wrestling. Is Kyokushin karate not karate because it combines karate and muay thai. Bjj fighters have beaten world class judoka in mma competion(Renzo vs Ben Spijkers, Nogueira vs Pawel Nastula a gold medalist who had a winning streak of 312 victories in competition, Silva vs Yoshida a legend in Judo. Very simple answer to BJJ vs Judo controversy. A competition with gi to the finish between the two. With each art bringing their best competitors.
+nbrace 8132 BJJ is definitely not pure Judo. The standup grappling is terrible, but their groundwork superlative. While BJJ fighters have defeated world-class Judoka, the same could be said the other way around. We could go back and forth all day. Instead of silly competition, let's embrace the differences in the arts.
Mario Sperry has a JUDO blackbelt as does most BJJ players today. Look at there bios you idiot.nbrace 8132
Kimura vs "Grandmaster" Helio
Hyperborean Colonialism - How old are you to show that level of disrespect and ignorance. First of all I personally know and trained with one of Mario Sperry's early instructors before he went on with the Carson Gracie team. Look up Mestre Sergio Penha. Secondly, BJJ guys have always cross trained in whatever was available to them whether it was Judo, Wrestling, Greco-Roman, Karate and especially Capoeira. In Carson Gracie's team you can see they also had extensive training in the fundamentals of wrestling. So how does that make your argument any better since you can see in their fights they do not default to Judo as their art of choice but to BJJ and wrestling, beating top Judo guys like amateurs. So stop calling people idiots when it turns out you are the true idiot and probably a prison sentence waiting to happen.
Yes today bjj is mix of judo kosrn snd kodokan catch and freestyle wrestling eve luta livre(no gi) and sambo. Bjj until 70 there is side vontro moreira anc alvesband other brazilian who studies in japanese unviersities znd tought kosen put techniques to bjj. Also self defencd ov bjj is just old judo kata znd no gi is just luta livre