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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- In One Clinical Mistake That Can Heighten a Client’s Shame, Peter Levine shares a common approach by practitioners that could inadvertently increase a client's sense of shame.
When a person feels shamed, we can tend to notice a very particular posture and autonomic pattern. The presentation in the body is one of collapse. Interestingly, this is very similar to what we might see in trauma.
Another telling sign of people who struggle with shameful feelings is how they read others' faces. Peter shares some fascinating study results on this topic from a recent talk he gave with Bessel van der Kolk, the top expert in treating trauma.
He details what normally happens in the brain when we see a friendly face, compared to how a traumatized or shamed person's brain reacts when they see that same friendly face.
And this is the basis of Peter's warning to practitioners when it comes to treating certain clients. He has found a very common approach to minimizing shame that could be having the exact opposite effect.
On top of that, a therapist's natural instincts in these situations could actually lock the client into a loop that drives them even deeper into their shame.
But there are ways to prevent this. Peter offers one simple but powerful change during your session that could be a difference-maker for clients who feel shamed.
Be sure to visit some of NICABM's many other expert videos on treating common client issues. You'll get the latest strategies from Peter Levine as well as Bessel van der Kolk MD, Pat Ogden PhD, Marsha Linehan PhD, Dan Siegel MD, and several other top experts in the field.
www.nicabm.com/
As soon as you notice dismissive behavior in a therapist or physician/hcp…remember, you are paying them to heal and serve you. You deserve better. Find the ones that support and synergize with you. You will heal faster.
And try talking to them about what they're doing
Thank You ! Unsure why the “helping” profession is not always helpful and more harmful
You are not paying a therapist to heal you. You can only do that yourself. A therapist's job is to collaborate with you to find the tools that you can use to help yourself heal. They should be supportive, but often clients project their own insecurities and past unmet needs onto their therapist. There are no magic wands, you are the one that has to do the actual work to change.
You don’t know how bad your therapist was until you find one that blows you away. You grow, you awaken, you start connecting the dots of your past, your family, your trauma, your current state, you connect the dots, you let go and you heal. Don’t wait, don’t delay…find your fit.
@J C I have no doubt, I am sure. I wish you could continue to see them or go back at some point and pick up where you left off-even over Zoom or phone sessions, come what may in the future. As far as my will is concerned, I have considered giving my money to my therapist for all the people who cannot afford her and to use that money so they can. She already provides free group sessions for minors that have been abused. She is heaven sent and an earth angel. She was the first therapist who validated me. Before her, I had this gut feeling none of them could understand what I went through/continued to go through. I felt like they saw me as an embellisher because they had never experienced someone at my level of abuse, but she had. She is well trained and well experienced and those therapists are hard to find.
Sounds awesome, unreal. I've been trying to find them for 10 years.
@@AP-bf9pe Whatever your situation is, find an expert in that area, one that is trained. For me, I finally found an expert in childhood trauma, abuse and neglect. She validated me and showed me HOW to heal. Anyone else before never did either one. Keep searching, interview them. Ask them how they heal their patients, what tools, et cetera. Forget talk therapy…you want an end to your road, so you can release, let go and run free, figuratively and literally.
@J C I have also read a lot of books. I am not sure where you are, but I can check out digital and audio books at my local library (without physically going to the library), and it is all free-6 books a month. Have you ever gone this route? There is a lot of free education from academic and research-based psychology, as well as, experienced psychotherapist that have had traumatic upbringings and can relate to trauma and write about it, found at the library. This has been very helpful for me. The books were an education and validation for me and supported my therapy. I definitely recommend if therapy is not conducive right now.
@@terabyte6166 what was her job title? I’m not in the USA so it might be different but I am looking for a clinician who won’t do talk therapy and will do what yours did. What are they called?
I just stopped working with conventional therapists and do self-study instead , I met too many abusive therapists who devastated my life at my peak days where I needed the most support .
oh my god me too
Agreed. Most are sick themselves
Same -- So many just don't get it... nor do they care to get it
There are some hair-raising therapists out there, if it's any consolation. Some who have come within my compass would have been struck-off in a more tightly regulated medical line of work.
I'm a therapist and a trauma survivor my self, i totally agree with you, i don't even trust most of my colleagues to be efficient nor empathetic.
I'm not a clinician but I'm trying to work with my kids on their emotions. I havent understood what to do when my daughter screams "dont look at me!" but now I feel like I understand a little better. I didnt want to abandon her but I dont want to make it worse. Thank you so much.
As a new therapist, I knew this from the get-go. I HATE IT WHEN MY COLLEAGUES GIVE EMPATHY IN A PATRONIZING WAY!
Your right on ! comments like '' hmm thats very tragic, but.... ' to be a good therapist you must break the ethical code ''' you never get emotionaly involved with a client. ( and Im not speaking about romantically ) If empathy is as important as we all know it is then you must step into their world . and take a walk around the neighborhood Oh if it was only possible we were able watch a autobiographies of their life. but at a minimum you must invest some of your self before you start to use the knowledge you have worked so hard to acquire. it seems that some therapists have and agenda and cant wait to fit you into a box they have been waiting to use on someone. . With the few that I have spent time with I found I must use some of my own psychology to steer them away from dead ends . Not to be deceitful or feeling superior and not wanting to be shorting myself of the full benefit that their education has to offer . But few will find that perfect therapist before their money runs out so you must work with what you got and even from the not so very good ones I have had my vocabulary enriched by new words and terms that have enabled me to better articulate my needs . and thats why TH-cam is a goldmine for the poor to get help with their mental issues.
@@ramah123 Thank you. Your remarks are astoundingly realistic. My question to you is this:- what if you were born before the days of TH-cam? As a poor person, what would you do to get help?
@@ceterisparibus8966 Read. But also psychology is so slow moving and the older thoughts can be totally off. But yes, reading. Like here on youtube, even though some of the information isn't helpful or accurate or applies to me, but that doesn't mean it doesn't give me insight into someone elses train of thought, or where it comes from, or the history of that in the first place. It helps you better understand your own understanding further.
None of the practitioners (okay maybe a couple of them) I've been to would consider this. In fact they use shame the way my abusers did.
I think the incompetence of the mental health system is a public health crisis causing an increase in permanent disability. Patients and former patients should be included in the efforts to correct this. I'm willing to help.
Me too.
So true, I tried hard to find 9 therapists, 7 of them are evils , users and assholes
This is my experience with a recent therapist from the hospital. Despite me highlighting my pain and traumas, she kept towards the direction of making me feel that I am in the wrong.
I'm a therapist, mentally ill with heavy trauma myself, and I think you're absolutely right. Several of my clients have come to me having been institutionalized many times, and often they've shared horrifying stories where I can't even fathom how an ethical clinician could do what's been done to them. There's a mental health clinic in my area that has a "hire, burn out, fire" mentality and I see it a lot with them too. I have met incredible therapists, coworkers and my own therapists; my first one worked for two years just to help me learn that I could trust adults. But I've also met ones that are too behaviorally-based, or decide what level of functioning a client is at instead of consulting the client, or are great for working on anxiety and depression symptoms but shy away from any other diagnoses or trauma. And given that I'm a trauma-focused therapist, I simply can't understand that. I've seen plenty of clients whose mental illnesses were made worse by the interventions or mindset or therapeutic orientation of their former counselors. Clinicians /need/ to be aware of what populations they're great working with and what ones they're not. To know what ones they need to get better at working with and what ones they don't want to work with and so to stay away. It can be hard to do in a community health setting, but finding a workplace that lets you do that is part of being a responsible therapist in my opinion. Becoming trauma-focused or at least trauma-informed is something that the therapeutic *field* is having a lot of progress in, but individuals often need to do a lot more work.
Can you please give an example? Thanks
Nothing worse than going to therapy and being told,”you should have known.”
Mariyeen Acheege Reading all of this makes me realize, even more, how great my therapist is. She seems to know when to validate and when to push and when to back off. She’s very in tune with me. I feel so lucky to have found her.
@@blueshoes915 mine is opposite, assholes users
You don’t know what you don’t know, right?
When friends say this they no longer are privy to my private life.
Many situations have dynamics no one but God could have imagined. It’s very shaming.
@@Raminakai ❤️yep
omg 😢💔💔💔 Never your fault...❣️
I wholeheartedly agree. And it's funny because before he got to the part about what a traumatized brain activates when happy face appears, I said my own answer, fear. It's odd to finally be validated for something that made me feel so othered that I felt something was so wrong with me. Both are true, it isn't that I have so much "wrong" with me, I am traumatized. The response due to the stimuli makes sense. It just makes me sad to know there are truely such different perspectives on something as seemingly kind as a happy face. That me feeling fear when someone looks too happy or kind to see me is not entirely outlandish, but appropriate given my circumstances. But I still ache and mourn that it has been my reality. What a way to experience the world. And what a thing we were so ruthlessly robbed of. I wish there were a magic pill to take away everything from everyone who knows it. But that just isn't so. We are left with grieving and having to find a way forward. Reconciling with what is and what was. It's messy, huh?
Ah I’m so sorry for the pain you’re in. So glad you found some resonance here.
I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of BWRT (brainworking recursive therapy). It can be very powerful when healing from trauma. I use that for trauma and body work for shame and dissociation.
Very powerful. Many people say it feels like magic.
Thinking of you and wish you all the success and happiness (without fear) in your healing ❤️🩹
It's deep inside us, so we can pray and do meditation and healing energy and talk to it and release it. I prayed and cried so much the last 2 days... so much despair and then it's way less now...
This is exactly why depressed and those (like me) dealing with shame listen to melancholy music… it meets us where we are. It resonates, it helps, it heals.
Does this mean therapy might be even more effective over the phone with people who suffer deep shame?
It’s a compassionate therapist who says to a person with anxiety “would you like to turn off the camera?” during a Telehealth consult
Interested in somatic resources for overcoming shame when it surfaces. My instinct would be to hold space and take some time of quiet and silence with the client, some breathwork, breathing into the shame together, and perhaps some intuitive singing or humming. What other resources do you draw upon when shame surfaces with a client?
As someone who lives with and suffers through personal shame, it's encouraging to hear about your ideas AND to see you attempting to engage with everyone 🌈🕉️🙏🏼
I sit on the floor in therapy with my back against the wall. I can’t communicate very well when sitting in the chair as I’m too self conscious. The fact that they can see me at all is a problem but it’s a compromise.
I feel this
I get you and I think it was a good idea personally. My therapist told me that every time I do not find interesting what she has to say, to tell her. But I can't do that despite trying many times. So we decided together that rather than speaking up, I will just raise my hand and she will get it. This makes me feeel amazing because we are going in the only way I can do progress currently. I find this to be somehow similar to what you said, and that's why I think it's a good compromise. It's a step forward.
what would you recomend a family member in this respect? .. does the family member attitude also influence the traumatized person in the same way?
Thank you for sharing this wisdom and simple fix.
Even listening to this is hard for me.
Thanks for your work it's great to get this support. 🙏
I'm a bit of a mess stuck in trauma please any books recommend can't stop crying it's two years of isolation and flashbacks
Excellent. This makes so much sense. Thank you. : )
what does he mean with "the posture of collapse", is he talking about a real physical posture ?
Yes he is.
Mine devoloped with chronic pain,loss of employment,along with my depression
Beaucoup de gratitude envers le Dr Levine et ceux qui ont sa ligne de conduite ⛩️
How can you do this when you have clients through zoom?
Anyone know what study he is talking about in the video? I would like to learn more about this!
Thank you. Relate so much …..
Well how do they do it then? I would acknowledge their feelings and ask them to describe more etc, what IS, not what anyone thinks MUST or SHOULD be. What IS is important, the reality.
Asking a traumatized person to relive or describe the event is not helpful. Working with meditation, nonjudgmental listening and peripheral issues (walking through daily symptoms and releasing fear) goes a long way to helping patients discover their truth.
@@MsBizzyGurl oh yeah but that is what I meant, the reality of what is now. What they are experiencing and feeling now. If you see my other post from that day, you’ll see that is what I wrote. Not to necessarily relive, although that has helped me a lot too. And yes I deal w ptsd on a daily basis
What was the brainstem area mentioned at 2:11 (which lights up while in shame and/or trauma x being shown a friendly face)?
Periaqueductal gray
How can we do this via telehealth?
Seriously if you have to bring this up by the time someone is doing healing work, then that's a big problem in your medicine.
Face whatever that happened in your life in the past. Usually shame feeling is there in the beginning. You would get over it. Then there are others who would keep reminding you. If you are Christians then there would be some self righteous ones who tirelessly keep pestering their pastors or leaders to address the issues again and again citing not repenting as the excuse with the purpose of wanting to make you live in shame by putting down. We have to move on after repentance. Let them say what they like. If they insisted or continue to belittle you, whoever they may be preacher or not, then it has become their problem not yours. If matter gets worse confront them bring your lawyer along. From some cases, we know that some are people who have committed worse sins that yours. And also know your right as a human being. You can also choose to make a police report. Your haters(of course some are just followers who think they know better when in fact they do not. This type usually choose to stay silent either on social media or in real life. They do not have the courage to deal with the shit they have left behind. They would avoid the direct confrontation as best they could. We should not feel ashamed knowing what their hidden agenda is. Beside, some may suggest you repent publicly, others may say you have to wail loudly to show real repentance yet others would say true repentance comes from God not from being pricked by your own conscience. Follow what it is in the holy book and ignore all other suggestions. Stand your ground. Move on and live your life. There were cases where some committed suicide after being shamed. So what would those people would said, "See, choose to die instead of repenting. 100% would be condemned to hell and some others opinions." The less we listen to that kind of opinions or their doctrines, the better we are. Some of those people are people who cannot think right. Everyone sins including your haters. Don't fear the haters. Well, just my 2 cents, different ways work for different people. Don't punish yourself because of those nasty crappies' attitude or opinions.
🙏