Happy to be able to listen to these as I finish each book now. Feels like unlocking an achievement. Platinum level dad joke "shadow of his former self." Well done.
I began laughing when I got to that conversation where Warrens are being explained - five books in! It was nice to know that what I thought I understood about warrens was pretty accurate at lease!
Ha ha! Brilliant thumbnail, my friend! Of course, you realize that anytime you invoke D’Octor Ph’Antasii, his brother from another mother P’Rofessor Fireballs is sure to appear! 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 And don’t forget the apostrophes - I thought we agreed on the apostrophes! 😁😁😁
There you go with that 'we' again. Girrrrr. One of these days, sir... one of these days... This was a lot of fun. We should do a series of these videos.
The best thing about reread is connecting dots from different books. My favorite is realising that Thardaas Buhn is the same Tise Eidur we saw in Memory of Ice. The one Quick Ben found near Coral.
Hi Sd, that was a great reveal. Those little moments were seemingly inconsequential things join up through the series create this great sense of cohesiveness and connectedness. Thanks for watching. I hope that you enjoyed it.
The Mael arc was probably the most enjoyable just to see all of the hints dropped all over the place that were almost painfully obvious. But regarding themes and the notion of compassion, while many authors beat you over the head with their opinions, the ghost of the this one poses a lot of 'what if....' questions leaving the reader to answer them which I find immensely entertaining.
Hi Eric, always good to hear your thoughts. Erikson's 'trust' in the reader to evaluate things by ourselves was a big artistic risk, but one that I am glad that he took.
Great discussion, as always! I always learn something new from your conversations. And thank you so much for the share! I feel very honored to have received a shout-out from the great D’octors! 😊🙏
I am on my 3rd read-through of the Malazan book of the fallen, and every time I find more to enjoy in the storytelling. These books are not diminished by prior knowledge, and I believe the spoilers are more likely to add to the enjoyment than subtract from it. You should definitely keep labelling the "spoiler talks" as such, but I would guess that many readers will find that the spoilers add to the experience. I very much enjoy these videos because they fill the need to reflect on the story I have been reading. Thank you very much, both of you!
Hi Bjorn, thanks for watching. You are absolutely right, one of the great strengths of the series is the rereadability. The 'plot' is only one aspect of the series. Thanks for watching.
Assuming you read the other Malazan series, what would you recommend in terms of series readings? I was thinking of reading the Esselmont's novels of the Malazan Empire next but after that I'm not sure which I should read next.
I always come away from your guys’ videos with a deeper and richer understanding of the books, learning about things I never picked up on. It helps me appreciate the series even more. An absolute pleasure to watch.
I am really glad that you enjoy these videos. They are so much fun to record, and the fact that people enjoy them and find them useful is a brilliant bonus. Thanks for watching.
Another awesome video, thank you gents! I CAN NOT wait for the "Spoiler Chat" for Forge of Darkness and Fall of Light. Oh and Orb Scepter Throne and Blood and Bone. Outside the main 10 but they wrecked me as well.
*The State of the truce is strong* ( at least while those War Mules are available to the Canavalians...) The Counsellor and I have this running joke on Iskar's Discord: how does Silchas KNOW Hood has balls? There's just one reasonable answer: Silchas Ruin, Jaghut proctologist...
Great discussion, gents! I consider MT to be a perfect combination of satire and tragedy: satire gives us the exaggeration and magnification to make a truth/truths comically clear, and tragedy very often centers on familial conflict and/or dysfunction (starting with Oedipus Rex). This book can make you laugh out loud, but it also can give you that oppressive sense of inevitable destiny.
Thanks so much for another awesome video! All this talk of water and tides and you forgot the one beach (and tent) the story comes to again and again :-D I also really liked the image of Rhulad decorated in golden coins. I'm not good at analysing but coins strike me as very ridgid and restricting which might reflect on the Edur society? And the image of the coins just goes very well with Lether.
Hi Aeliria, unfortunately Philip and I always forget certain things... no matter how hard we try we always leave a bunch of things out. In our defence... lots of things happen in these books and we do try our best. But you are absolutely right, that beach and tent are very important. The complexity of the coin imagery and the inherent subtext and connotations are really interesting. Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
My wife had to go out of town for work so I'm consuming all the content I missed out on the past few weeks. It's been three hour+ long AP conversations in a row and work has never flown by so quick! This community y'all built is simply awesome for conversation starved people everywhere 😁
I am so sorry. Three hours of me talking? Even my wife taps out after 45 minutes. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Thank you so much for watching and I really hope that you are enjoying the videos. Good conversation, great books, and friends to share them with, are treasures that enrich our minds and spirits.
Love it, I know no one in my surroundings that have read or are read this books, feeling like i am having friends accompanying me through this journey.🙏 I would be very interested to here the two of you dissecting Gene Wolfs- book of the new sun
One interesting aspect of Hull's betrayal by the Nerek is the reason why the Nerek did this after worshipping Hull for such a long time. They felt that Hull, by siding with the Edit had not only betrayed Leather, but that he had betrayed himself in a way by not having the capacity to forgive himself for his role in the Nerek conquest. So the cycle of betrayal is more layered and complex, ultimately showing that betrayals always begin with a deep, more personal betrayal of one self.... At least that's what I too from the book. Amazing video again! I really look forward to these conversations between TH-cam's greatest doctors and professors: Pha'ntasii and Fireballs.
Hi Alejandroga, that is a great point and very interesting. Thank you for that. Hull's arc is one I think that I should return to at some point, because the tragedy of Hull is held in such sharp relief by the strengths of his brothers.
@@ACriticalDragon Definitely! Hull definitely doesn't get enough attention (certainly not as much as Tehol and Brys for obvious reasons). But I feel that there's so much more to Hull's ark than people give credit to. Another of the "Midnight Tides Brothers" that doesn't get much attention is Binadas, since the book doesn't show much of him and his personality.
@@alejandroga666 there isn't a lot of Binadas to sink your teeth into in Midnight Tides, but you are absolutely right about Hull (and the reasons why). I will have to give it some thought.
@@ACriticalDragon I always dreamt of Erikson or Esslemont writing a short story telling Binadas side of the Silanda's rescue mission as a way of getting more of that character. He always looked so badass and intriguing to me. (said loudly in the hopes that the Elder gods are listening and not simply the ramblings of a madman into the cold of the Abyss)
I am on my first read of the Malazan series, having just started it a few months back and when I'm reading now I don't spend time on the themes as much and try and enjoy / figure out the plot more, but I loved this video as it really showed me the deeper aspects of the book and the meaning behind so much of the dialogue, interactions, and characters. For a young reader like me, this is a great experience and I'm thankful that both of you were able to provide it for us
You are very welcome, thank you for watching. I am glad that you are enjoying the videos and the discussions. For me, it is never that I am trying to uncover or look for themes, I find them appearing as I see connections between various aspects of the narrative.
One of my favourite of the series. The complexities of clashing cultures was more poignant on this reread. Canada is coming to terms with the very recent atrocities of residential schools and cultural genocide 😢. Thank you for the great video.
Fantastic breakdown wow. I just finished Midnight Tides today and came straight here, as usual. Loved this book but you both bring sooo much out I didn't realise. Brilliant literature.
I am so glad that you are enjoying the discussions and that they add to your experience of the books. Thank you for watching. And thanks for the really supportive comment. It is great to hear that people are enjoying the discussions and find worth in them.
The continuing adventures of Doctor Fantasy and Professor Fireballs. A Life in the Night. A heavy thrum could be felt, travelling through the floor and walls of the room, oppressive in aspect. The raised floor ahead barely hidden behind faded curtains, ghosts of entertainment past, worn and marked. Fireballs stood, leaning against the frame, a crackling voice announcing his arrival to the crowd. Thinner yet again. Like myself. Damn you Fantasy. Why could the man never be on time? Scattered applause in the room, the crackling voice yet again. "Ladies and Gentlemen, please put your hands together for the Prestidigitator of the Prologue, the Dissector of Dialogue, Professor Firebaaaaaals" A flash of light, the curtains fluorescing, flowing and twitching as if alive and seeking to flee to the shadows, yet held aloft by the heavy iron rod above. Music begins to play, jangling, discordant. Fucking U2 again. Second album. Second track. Hood's balls the irony. A sharp intake of breath, Fireballs leans forward. Once more into the breach. The dark blot ahead, the shadow of the podium awaiting him. He reaches out to the curtain ahead.. Speak. Must speak. The stage. A hand grips his shoulder, slowly turning him around. Square spectacles, pipe, dinner jacket. Of course. "Did you miss me?", Fantasy whispers with a grin. Bastard. Fireballs rubs his eyes with the back of his hands. "Last night I think, the crowd is lean, ever more so since Steven has left us for all that poetry.." "So you always say, yet here we are. You know the faith is unsustainable by Booktube alone. The populace will always need the living voice of multi-layered ambiguity." "Ah, so we say. But they taunt us so. Did you not hear the opening music?" "Professor doctor professor, even if there is but one of them, we must speak, our voices the rings spreading across the water after the striking of the stone." "Yes, but still, the last night my dear doctor professor doctor, for me at least, for I have just now ascertained the deepest truth in the Book of the Fallen. For though it has the gilt and trappings of the fantastic, it illuminates the present in theme and scope, exposing us for the suppurating pestilence we are." Fantasy was silent a moment. "Doctor professor professor doctor, you don't mean to say that Malazan is...science fiction? Have we been...wrong all this time?" "Yes", sighed Fireballs, "I think, professor professor doctor professor sir, we may have some backpedaling to do." He glanced at the curtain. "Drink, Sergeant Tweedy?" "Don't mind if I do, Corporal O'chre"
Ha ha! This is pure bloody genius, Paul! “Our voices the rings spreading across the water after the striking of the stone.” Long may D’Octor Ph’Antasii and P’Rofessor Fireballs endure in their quest to delve the depths of the Book of the Fallen!
Thank you for this discussion! I'm so glad you did this now that I have the novel very fresh in my mind. In my opinion, this novel has it all! Made me laugh, cry, scream, reflect upon... I was just in awe when reading it and these discussions just add SO much enjoyment to the reading experience, so thank you both!!!
Hi Jay, it is always good to hear from you. I am glad that you enjoyed this book. One thing MBotF consistently does is challenge the reader to consider something new.
Another great conversation. I just finished Midnight Tides a few minutes ago. I really enjoyed it. The final scene in the throne room was so epic. I'm looking forward to The Bonehunters.
Always enjoy watching the spoiler chat after finishing one of these epics. They give a nice sense of closure and great me up for the next book. Looking forward to the next installment!
I was thinking about the Sioux Uprising and Dakota War of 1862 while reading the book. I have always lived in in area where that is a part of our local history. Fantastic discussion! I'm glad to be able to watch these videos for Midnight Tides finally. :)
I also noticed the derogatory use of skin tone the Letherii used against the Edur with them being grey. Much like how red was used towards Native Americans.
Hi Matthew, I believe that Erikson specifically mentioned the Dakota Sioux as an inspiration for elements of this story thread. Thanks for watching and the great comment.
*Ding-dong* *Ting-e-ling* Indeed 😂 Such a fantastic book, and you brought up so many great points. There's just so much here about identity and the lies we tell ourselves, both as individuals and as cultures. The damage and the pain that brings, but also the growth and necessity. Self-image versus the image we present. There's too much to discuss, but I could listen to you gents for many more hours doing just that. Thanks 🙏
Hi Rob, those are great points, the self lies, self image, contrasting with the external perception and external projection, are really important aspects of so many characters in this novel. Thanks for watching.
I thought Udinaas and everything that happens with him and his relationship with Rhulad was one of the most interesting things in the series so far. I especially like the way Michael Page narrates him in the audiobook.
I loved this book when I read it a few weeks ago, it's my favourite of the five I've read so far, edging out Deadhouse Gates. But your videos give me a new appreciation for each one, especially here, to think that the Letherii is like a manifest destiny empire and the Edur are like a Native American tribe of old that could have taken over gives the story a lot of thematic depth. Everything with the Sengar brothers is so well done, The Crippled God is really interesting here and his speech to Rhulad about peace is amazing, a few of the duels are so cool, damn Iron Bars is such a badass and of course Tehol and Bugg are S tier characters. It's amazing how you talked for over an hour and I still think there's a lot more to say about it. My only issues with the book are small, everyone bowing to Rhulad after he comes back from the dead is a bit too easy, I was expecting Hanan to say that it's not a true resurrection, that this is a spirit possessing the corpse and then demand that the sword be cut from Rhulads hands. Fever Witch is so unpleasant to Udinaas when he's continually kind to her and I dislike that. The stuff at the end with the Azath's prisoner escape is a bit much to wrap my head around, like there's this whole thing where Iron Bars kills a demi-god off-screen, it was a bit much to keep track of. But in all I love it.
Hi Meris, I am happy to hear that you enjoyed the videos and the book. Thank you for watching and commenting. You might enjoy the videos I recorded with Erikson in which we went through a couple of the scenes from Midnight Tides.
Wow! I can't express how grateful I am to be following along with these discussions as I read through this series the first time. Excellent analysis of betrayal, water, magic, character perspective, colonization, and the cost of compassion. I haven't watched Quick Jen's video yet in fear of later spoilers, but I will definitely check it out! I kind of wondered if Erikson was making some kind of commentary on the beauty industry in a humorous way with Shurq. Interesting info about funerals, by the way. Cheers for making it to the halfway point!
Hi Johanna, thank you for the very kind words. It is great to hear from you. I think that you are probably right about Shurq and the cosmetics industry.
Apologies in advance if you've talked about something similar since, as you see, I'm.... a wee bit behind XD - curious if AP you and Dr Chase, once you finish the ten books might have another discussion maybe focused on full series arcs - particularly thought of that here with what you were talking about with Ganoes, the Errant, the introduction of the Holds, etc - and how that develops later... but there's tons of similar threads that could really stand a great full series view from it of course. Anyhow, absolutely fantastic, a pleasure as always. This is easily one of my favorites in the series, and I think the point where first time through I realized I was totally in love. Great discussion... looking forward to catchup up with your talks XD
Hi Zan, thanks for watching. Yes, we plan on doing a series of videos post series that do full series looks at characters and threads, and how the complete narrative reconceptualises and changes some information.
Just finished Midnight Tides, so your videos on it is a must. I think for, this was the most straightforward one yet. Although I could just be getting used to the narrative style (if that’s the right term) Loved all the characters, and I was equally interested in all the plot lines. I swore off these massive fantasy series years ago (because of the time commitment) but I’m glad I decided to read this series
I am glad that you are enjoying the books. You are absolutely right that the more you get used to the style, and the more you accumulate knowledge about the setting, the 'easier' it becomes to understand what is happening, why it is happening, and to pick up on the various clues. Thanks for watching.
Goodness Gracious Great B’alls of Fire - Nice Discussion. Would have liked to have seen some discussion on Erikson’s Subversion of the quest trope. One of the cool things that looms over this book is the puzzling relationship between Bugg and Mallick Rel. Erikson’s playing in various books with the effect of worship is one of the deeper themes in the books. One other thing I like is that what Tehol is doing, with Bugg’s help, is creating a crisis of liquidity in the Letheri markets.
Wonderful chat, thank you! I am pretty proud I had suspicions of Bugg and his identity quite early on and I managed to pick a lot of the subtle details that lead me to figure out who he is. I am normally not that frightened by spoilers, but this kind of lore detective work that I truly enjoy stops me from watching videos about the rest of the books. But I've started reading the Bonehunters and I hope to be able to keep up with your reading schedule as well. PS. nobody minds more Dad jokes! :D
Hi Livia, that is some impressive detective work. I have to admit, on my first read that while I had my suspicions about Bugg I didn't actually predict it. So I greatly enjoyed the reveal. This time around I loved seeing all those little hints and subtle references, and how Erikson makes it seem so obvious in retrospect. Thank you so much for watching.
I'm just catching up with you guys - just finishing Midnight Tides. I was very aware throughout the entire book of many of the themes you mention. Like the presence of water. This was a very satisfying read.
A.P I always like the spoiler talk more, cause it's more understandable. Never have i really believed in the concept of spoiling. Books are not one and a half hour thriller movies. Besides i think masterpieces don't necessarily need to be protected from spoilers. I mean i have not even read Midnight tides. What happens is that i watch malazan videos, so i know what to look for, and the character names and the plot points would blur by the point i get to read the book myself. Awesome video as ever, Dr. Canavan
Hi Javad, I feel much the same as you. But I am glad that Philip and I split things up this way as it seems we can cater to the best of both worlds. Those that don't want spoilers and those that don't mind them. This way, I think, we avoid excluding people, and we can encourage readers of all types. I look forward to hearing your thoughts about Midnight Tides when you get to it. have a great day.
@@ACriticalDragon While I agree with the statement that great books can't really be spoiled (hence their appeal for multiple rereads), I am thankful that you have spoiler warnings in your videos. Philip said in one of his discussions on his channel that he tried to understand as many details during his first reading of the series as he could (which is perfectly fine, most Malazan readers do the same, I assume). But a piece of advice he gives to people who are about to start the series for the first time is that they should try to be comfortable with not understanding even important things for a while (such as warrens) and just enjoy the ride. A big part of which is finding out what happens. Reading the series for the first time is unique precisely for the innocence of ignorance, and I don't want to rush through it and become as knowledgeable as the Malazan veterans as quickly as possible. It's not a race and I have (hopefully) plenty of years to do that, so I choose to savor the experience, enjoying every step of the way. Thank you for sharing this discussion as well, it's invaluable as usual. :)
@@szokocsrobert I am very glad that you enjoyed the video. Thank you for watching. I know that people have differing opinions on spoilers, so that is why Philip and I try to split things up so that people get to choose. The thing about spoilers is that it is a catch all category that encompasses a huge range of information. Does knowing that the Titanic sinks 'spoil' the film Titanic? That is not the point of the film, even though it is a huge event with significant narrative impact... So there are levels of spoiler, and, given how we all react differently to narrative, it is impossible to tell what someone will think is a big spoiler or a small spoiler, or even a spoiler at all. I have seen comments that images on book covers are spoilers, and yet they are presented without any context and so the reader can't know what it is on the cover. It only achieves relevance after the fact. So if you need the context to understand it, how is it a spoiler when you only get that context when you read the section? But, as I said, we do try to accommodate those that are spoiler averse, but there are times when I draw the line. For instance, Lord of the Rings, I take it as a given that I can speak freely about LotR as it was published in the 1950s, been adapted twice, and is a central text in the fantasy canon... yet I know there are those that have not read it (or watched either the films or the animation).
@@ACriticalDragon I agree with you about there being different levels of spoilers. As long as a certain background knowledge is needed for something to be a spoiler, I wouldn't consider it as such. As for images containing spoilers - I saw in a Malazan FB group a picture of Rhulad covered in coins (and moving) just as I was starting this book, so I strongly suspected he would come back after his death. I wasn't very bothered with this particular spoiler, but I try to avoid such if I can. I think fans should be careful with spoilers regarding character deaths in general. For example, if somebody had spoiled the ending of the Chain of Dogs for me, it might not have been as impactful. Also, I had heard about what happens at "the red wedding" in GOT before I watched it, so it wasn't as big a shock to me as to many others. In contrast, I hadn't known about what happens to Oberyn and so that scene crushed me. That was one of the most memorable moments for me in the entire show.
@@szokocsrobert Strangely, I don't agree about the end of Deadhouse Gates. For me, it was just as impactful, if not even more emotive, because I knew what was going to happen. Sure, I didn't have the 'shock' factor, but what I had was a building sense of tension because I knew the event was creeping closer.
I'm only halfway through the video, so it's possible this will be mentioned later, but you guys are switching to a different theme and I want to write this down before I forget: Building off what you guys said about the theme and symbolism of water in the book, I think you missed one 'suggestion' of how the title can apply to the book (SPOILERS for Reapers Gale): An important aspect of tides is that they come and go. They build up gradually, only to flow away from the shore. In Midnight Tides and Reapers Gale, the edur act as the tide. Initially, they conquer the letherii, gain control, and insert their power. However, just as the tide will inevitably fall away, so too does the edur conquest inevitably fall away at the hands of letherii culture. This inevitability was hinted at in MT, and carried out in RG. I'm really enjoying this discussion of one of my favorite novels in the series so far! Keep up the great work!
Hi Ben, thanks for watching and the great comment. We try not to refer to later books as we are trying to keep to the book at hand and the preceeding volumes. It is a spoiler balancing act. I think that we alluded to your point, but we are likely to return to it once we reach Reaper's Gale. It is a great point.
Great video! I have been reading Malazan for a few months now and I just finished Midnight Tides. This was probably my least favorite entry so far because it was so divorced from prior plot points. We are thrust into a new continent with not even one mention of the Malazan Empire throughout the entire book, and even fundamental concepts that inform our understanding of the series such as Houses, warrens, and the common pantheon are replaced by foreign notions. This was tough for me. The one connection we have is Trull Sengar. For me as a reader, this was too painful. I really struggled to make my way through the Tiste Edur chapters, knowing all along what awaited Trull. Those many scenes of brotherhood and kinship… Knowing who the Edur serve, and what can only await them as a result… Erikson is a monster! Nonetheless, I admire the book. The Beddict brothers were a joy, particularly Tehol and his friendship with Bugg. The stuff with Shurq was frankly disgusting, but Kettle was adorable. And I loved many aspects of the other POV character chapters. But this was such a dark, hostile, unforgiving read. I yearn for the happy go-lucky moments of the past, like the Siege of Pale…
I watched this yesterday and I forgot to comment. *The horror!* Thank you for the lovely educational conversation, it's always a delight! See you in the next one 🤓
The Roxian Menace strikes when least expected. It is always wonderful to hear from you, and I am very happy that you enjoyed the video. Thank you for all the support and positivity.
@@ACriticalDragon you are always so kind, thank you so much! I noticed Rejoice coming closer and closer to the camera :) Is this a sign that we might soon see a video on Rejoice? 😍
My laptop died this week, which has delayed things. I am trying to borrow a laptop while I find a replacement machine. I don't want to waste money on a laptop and it is not my area of expertise. So I am hesitant to spend so much money on something that might not be the right one. My laptop is over 10years old, I definitely got my money back from it. But the new version of that laptop is over £3000 which is crazy money.
I just finished Midnight Tides for the first time. I could not put the book down for the final 300 pages or so. I don't remember the last time I felt this devastated by a novel. Unbelievable work. Easily the best of the series so far. Also, A.P, do you know as to whether Erikson has been informed or influenced by psychoanalysis to any significant degree? The (oft repeated) themes of repetition, and many of the characters fulfilling roles/plots unwittingly, are highly suggestive of psychoanalytic influence.
Hi JD, thanks for watching. I have no idea about the psychoanalytical aspect, but I would say that the use of archetypes is not just limited to psychoanalysis, and using multiple characters to explore the same theme or subject from multiple perspectives can be found throughout literature. Characters being unwilling pawns in the game of gods is prevalent from Greek mythology onwards. So there may be less of a psychoanalytical influence than you might think.
@@ACriticalDragon Thanks for the insight, A.P. The Gods, throughout mythology literature and Malazan, are quite a wonderful metaphor for the Unconscious and other seemingly pre-determined aspects of Being. Perhaps literature and psychoanalysis are responding to the same phenomenon by different means.
Thanks alot for another brilliant video I finished reading midnight tides yesterday, and really look forward to these videos. Very much appreciated until the next time I am about to start The bonehunters. Happy reading, and once again a massive thank you.
@@ACriticalDragon absolutely loving the series in my opinion the series just keeps getting better and better, midnight tides was my favourite up to yet loved everything about it especially the dialogue between Tehol and Bugg some really funny and at times much need humour. Loved how we are in a sence living at the exact same time line, as Trull as we were kind of promised his story. House of chains was to me about sisters and obviously many more things, and midnight tides is about brothers. Thanks once again for your videos you have a fantastic day/night. The Bonehunters is awaiting me and I truly can't wait.
I was gonna take a break from the series after Midnight Tides but now I think I'll do so after Bonehunters. Its just so addictive. Just like that nectar.
I don't think I have ever felt a need to take a break from a series. But, if you are not enjoying the books, then take a break. Read something different. Read something that brings you joy, happiness, entertainment, or interest in different ways. That is a great joy of books. There are all different types.
@@ACriticalDragon oh no, I'm enjoying myself immensely. Already Malazan is Top 10, Top 5 favourite fantasy series for me. I was just trying to prevent getting burnt-out. But I don't think that'll since I'm very excited to read Bonehunters.
No apologies necessary. My mistake entirely. I am very sorry. Thanks for watching and commenting. It is always great to see people coming back and still enjoying the videos that I am making.
I just finished this book and continued my ritual of devouring every discussion on it. Starting, of course, with yours! Mr. Erikson continues to blow me away with his ingenious writing and creativity. I understand why so many people struggle to rank the books because each one is brilliant for different reasons. I enjoyed some of the exchanges with Pust and his wife in HoC, but Tehol and Bugg in this book brought about much smiling and a few hearty laughs. One such exchange I highlighted takes place when Tehol and Bugg go to get Shurq from the fancy brothel she is working at. It goes like this... Tehol opened the door and stepped into the room. Behind him, Bugg hissed, ‘Errant take me, look at all the breasts!’ The wall panels and ceiling continued the theme begun on the wooden railing, a riotous proliferation of mammary excess. Even the floor beneath the thick rugs was lumpy. Even re-reading it while typing it out made me audibly laugh. "A riotous proliferation of mammary excess" might be the funniest thing I have ever read in a book. On top of his brilliant action, his amazing characterization and brilliant world building, he's this funny too. We truly are spoiled to live in a time where we get to read his works. Can't wait to get to Bonehunters and then back to your chats with Dr. Chase, and scene break downs with Mr. Erikson. Cheers, A.P.!
Great video! I've been binge watching both of your content(not just the malazan stuff) and I absolutely love every minute of it thank you so much. I was looking to pick up a new series or even just a stand alone novel to read and was wondering if you had any good suggestions.
Thanks for watching Ryan. What series have you read and what do you like reading? That would be fairly essential knowledge to try to recommend something.
A.P, bingeing on your videos makes me nostalgic for reading Malazan again. I just finished Stormlight Archive and wasn't too impressed. I would love to hear some suggestions on Malazan-like fantasy!
Hi Nopicks, I am sure that you have already read Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings, Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, and Jordan's Wheel of Time. The next big series that I will be reading is Janny Wurts Wars of Light and Shadow. After that the next big series is Bakker's The Second Apocalypse. But I will also be fitting in Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. It all depends on what you want to read and what aspects of Malazan you enjoyed.
@@ACriticalDragon awesome! Wheel of Time started my love for fantasy. ASoIaF was great but wasn't a fan of the pseudo-European world building. Thank you for the recommendations, I'll definitely check the rest out! Erikson really spoiled me with his world building, themes, characters, bad ass set pieces. Fantasy for adults that transcends the genre. Haha I could go on and on about the obsession - sadly TH-cam and Discord is the only place I can discuss Malazan. That's why Malaz Tube is such a great outlet haha. Keep up the AMAZING work!!
Edit: I forgot to say, thanks for the great discussion. They are so informative, fun and really help me processing all my thoughts on the books! I agree that looking at this story as just US versus native americans. However, by looking at this story as just a generic representation of imperialism also loses part of the contents of the book in my opinion. The long reflections on societies that work mostly through money, debt and individualistic meritocracy read also like a commentary on current western society (I was going to say economy and that is exactly the problem, when those two are too similar to each other). And yes the US would again be just an example, but in the case of these detrimental values I feel it is the pinnacle of this way of existing. And I think how Philip mentioned the smaller parallels between Lether and the US, I would argue that is meant to be a bit on the nose in that respect.
Oh, I agree that thinking about specific examples is really useful, it is just that people often get locked into only one interpretation and don't think about others. Thanks for watching, and I am really pleased that you get something positive out of the discussions.
I am keen on hearing what you made of Trull’s decision (or, indecision) of denying Rhulad’s plea for help to end his agonizing state of pain in the throne room. (You referenced it briefly at the end of the discussion but not from Trull’s view). Did he reject an act of compassion in favor of pragmatism? Betraying not just the request your emperor, but your younger brother-in favor of... the future of your people?
Hi Uhm, sorry for not replying sooner. This is a really interesting question and I think that it could be an interesting video. So I am going to think about it a bit more, if you don't mind. Thank you so much for watching and the thoughtful comment.
Hi Adaham, I read the first trilogy when the books first came out, and I am planning on rereading them. I remember them being incredibly good but very dark.
Finally finished my re-read of Midnight Tides so I was able to watch this. Question: How long do you think the Crippled God have his tendrils in the Pannion Seer? How does the timeline match up with Hannan Mosag's discovery of the Crippled God's power? Is the Crippled God powerful enough to split his time/power between to different continents like that? It seems like it would have taken years to build up the army and power base on Genebackis just like it would have taken many years for Hannan to unite the tribes. Just wondering how much of this back story overlaps. As always, great discussion!
I would love a sequel series or just book that deals with a lot of these gods that are left hanging after the series (no spoilers). And them dealing with Paran. Sort of simplistic but I would like more with them. Maybe some answers in The God is not Willing?
HI Graeme, there is so much of the world to explore. I don't think that either Esslemont or Erikson would run out of ideas and story threads that they could develop.
Yea it is kinda weird because I’m reading midnight tides and want some complementary content to engage with so this spoiler talk maybe isn’t the perfect thing.. but I’ve already read it so I don’t think I’ll be less inclined to finish the book after watching. Hopefully even more so
I see your literate employment of the tool of jests by masculine parental units are still in full force! In regards to changing culture and assimilation, I would also point out how the English had rulers from Scotland, the Netherlands and Germany assimilated into their culture & become national icons: Dutch William of Orange as an Icon of British Unionism in Northern Ireland. Or how Queen Victoria has become the most British Icon that have ever “Britished”, even if as Blackadder puts it: Darling: “Look, I'm as British as Queen Victoria!” Blackadder: “So your father's German, you're half-German and you married a German?!” A bit of topic, but recently I learned that I have an “connection” to Ireland myself, sort of: Through nobility on Shetland, I am a direct descendant (greatx18-grandson) of Edward Bruce, the brother of Robert the Bruce, who died in his attempt to become High King of Ireland.
Hi Mac, colonialism, and post-colonialism, are really interesting areas of study. The ramifications, cultural or otherwise, can be fascinating. Thanks for watching. Plus, I love that season of Blackadder. It was incredibly funny... although the very last scene was heart rendingly poignant.
@@ACriticalDragon About weird resources to go to war over: In the 19th century, guano (bat and sea bird excrement, as made famous by that celebrated documentary "Ace Ventura 2: When Nature Calls") became prized as a vital source of saltpeter for gunpowder as well as an agricultural fertilizer. This lead to a war ("The War of the Pacific"/"The Saltpeter War") between Chile and an alliance of Peru and Bolivia from 1879 to 1884 and the export of Guano from Peru might have been the source for the Potato Blight that caused the Great Potato Famine in Ireland. To this very day "The Guano Islands Act" of 1856 enables citizens of the United States to take possession, in the name of the United States, of unclaimed islands containing guano deposits located anywhere, as long as they are not occupied and not within the jurisdiction of another government. It also empowers the President of the United States to use military force to protect and enforce US law over the Islands. So the US has a literal "B@tsh/t law" to protect their supply of b@tsh/t, that allow the US President to go to war over b@tsh/t...
@@MacScarfield That one I was not aware of, so thank you for that. That is definitely knowledge that I needed in my life. I just know that some people have said, ''but this is dumb', so I wanted to address it.
I’m surprised that with so many comparisons of invaders and manifest destiny being made, that the Roman occupation of Britain doesn’t get mentioned more often, both in this discussion and others. The UK was occupied by the Romans for longer than there has been a United States of America.
There are lots of expansionist empires throughout history, people tend to focus on more recent examples or the ones more widely understood. And with this book, due to the capitalism versus tribal aspect, there tends to be a focus on America as the prominent example.
![Spoiler Chat: Reaper's Gale (Book 07 Malazan Book of the Fallen) with Philip Chase [Part One]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1BsOXJI_6a4/mqdefault.jpg)
Happy to be able to listen to these as I finish each book now. Feels like unlocking an achievement.
Platinum level dad joke "shadow of his former self."
Well done.
You have to throw in the odd dad joke here and there. It is mandatory.
Me too, it's like an extra bonus after finishing a novel.
I began laughing when I got to that conversation where Warrens are being explained - five books in! It was nice to know that what I thought I understood about warrens was pretty accurate at lease!
Ha ha! Brilliant thumbnail, my friend! Of course, you realize that anytime you invoke D’Octor Ph’Antasii, his brother from another mother P’Rofessor Fireballs is sure to appear! 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 And don’t forget the apostrophes - I thought we agreed on the apostrophes! 😁😁😁
There you go with that 'we' again. Girrrrr. One of these days, sir... one of these days...
This was a lot of fun. We should do a series of these videos.
Note to self: Need more Dad jokes... less literary stuff... the crowd wants Dad jokes.
@@ACriticalDragon Dad jokes we have in abundance, and they’re absolutely infectious! Thus, our series is guaranteed to achieve a viral status!!!
@@ACriticalDragon You did sneak a circumcision joke in there, don't sell yourself short!
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd 😁
The best thing about reread is connecting dots from different books. My favorite is realising that Thardaas Buhn is the same Tise Eidur we saw in Memory of Ice. The one Quick Ben found near Coral.
Hi Sd, that was a great reveal. Those little moments were seemingly inconsequential things join up through the series create this great sense of cohesiveness and connectedness. Thanks for watching. I hope that you enjoyed it.
The Mael arc was probably the most enjoyable just to see all of the hints dropped all over the place that were almost painfully obvious.
But regarding themes and the notion of compassion, while many authors beat you over the head with their opinions, the ghost of the this one poses a lot of 'what if....' questions leaving the reader to answer them which I find immensely entertaining.
Hi Eric, always good to hear your thoughts. Erikson's 'trust' in the reader to evaluate things by ourselves was a big artistic risk, but one that I am glad that he took.
Great discussion, as always! I always learn something new from your conversations. And thank you so much for the share! I feel very honored to have received a shout-out from the great D’octors! 😊🙏
Hi Quick Jen, your videos are brilliant. I am a fan. I am looking forward to more. Thank you for making them.
I feel so stupid. OF COURSE the god of the seas didn’t get rid of all that flood water under the palace simply because he’s a more competent engineer!
Hi Philip, well he is a very good engineer... But I think that being a God might have helped. 😂😂
I am on my 3rd read-through of the Malazan book of the fallen, and every time I find more to enjoy in the storytelling.
These books are not diminished by prior knowledge, and I believe the spoilers are more likely to add to the enjoyment than subtract from it. You should definitely keep labelling the "spoiler talks" as such, but I would guess that many readers will find that the spoilers add to the experience.
I very much enjoy these videos because they fill the need to reflect on the story I have been reading.
Thank you very much, both of you!
Hi Bjorn, thanks for watching. You are absolutely right, one of the great strengths of the series is the rereadability.
The 'plot' is only one aspect of the series.
Thanks for watching.
Assuming you read the other Malazan series, what would you recommend in terms of series readings? I was thinking of reading the Esselmont's novels of the Malazan Empire next but after that I'm not sure which I should read next.
I always come away from your guys’ videos with a deeper and richer understanding of the books, learning about things I never picked up on. It helps me appreciate the series even more. An absolute pleasure to watch.
I am really glad that you enjoy these videos. They are so much fun to record, and the fact that people enjoy them and find them useful is a brilliant bonus. Thanks for watching.
Another awesome video, thank you gents! I CAN NOT wait for the "Spoiler Chat" for Forge of Darkness and Fall of Light. Oh and Orb Scepter Throne and Blood and Bone. Outside the main 10 but they wrecked me as well.
Hi nickorobearsson, we will get there... eventually. In the meantime I am glad that you enjoyed this video. Thanks for watching.
*The State of the truce is strong* ( at least while those War Mules are available to the Canavalians...)
The Counsellor and I have this running joke on Iskar's Discord: how does Silchas KNOW Hood has balls? There's just one reasonable answer: Silchas Ruin, Jaghut proctologist...
He was married, are you sure?
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd I mean, married Jaghut need to go to the proctologist too after their 40s... 4000 that is xD
@@oniflrog4487 Maybe that's what the Terondi is...
To be fair to Hood, he used to throw the most amazing dance parties and evening soirees. Everyone loved Hood's balls.
@@ACriticalDragon He was a real swinger he was.
Yes!!! I loved this book. It started rough for me but once I got my footing I was hooked. This book was hilarious
Hi Darren, thanks for watching.
I am glad that you enjoyed the book.
When Tehol throws a sheet around himself to walk through the city and the first comment is "nice dress" I knew I'd like this one :)
Great discussion, gents! I consider MT to be a perfect combination of satire and tragedy: satire gives us the exaggeration and magnification to make a truth/truths comically clear, and tragedy very often centers on familial conflict and/or dysfunction (starting with Oedipus Rex). This book can make you laugh out loud, but it also can give you that oppressive sense of inevitable destiny.
So true, Johan!
Hi Johan, great points. Thanks for commenting and putting them up for everyone.
Thanks so much for another awesome video! All this talk of water and tides and you forgot the one beach (and tent) the story comes to again and again :-D I also really liked the image of Rhulad decorated in golden coins. I'm not good at analysing but coins strike me as very ridgid and restricting which might reflect on the Edur society? And the image of the coins just goes very well with Lether.
Hi Aeliria, unfortunately Philip and I always forget certain things... no matter how hard we try we always leave a bunch of things out. In our defence... lots of things happen in these books and we do try our best. But you are absolutely right, that beach and tent are very important.
The complexity of the coin imagery and the inherent subtext and connotations are really interesting.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
Oh yes, that beach! Excellent point, Aeliria!
Yeah! I finished Midnight Tides yesterday and now I can finally watch this video :)
I hope that you enjoyed the book, and that you enjoy the video. Thanks for watching.
I've been saving this video since I finished Midnight Tides. I wanted to watch it on my birthday. Which is exactly what I'm doing.
Happy Birthday.
Have a great day, and a brilliant year ahead.
Thank you!!! Also, thank you (and Dr. Chase, of course) for this video.
My wife had to go out of town for work so I'm consuming all the content I missed out on the past few weeks. It's been three hour+ long AP conversations in a row and work has never flown by so quick! This community y'all built is simply awesome for conversation starved people everywhere 😁
I am so sorry. Three hours of me talking? Even my wife taps out after 45 minutes. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you so much for watching and I really hope that you are enjoying the videos. Good conversation, great books, and friends to share them with, are treasures that enrich our minds and spirits.
It’s great to see another video from you, Professor Fireballs! :)
Girrrrr that Philip character has a lot to answer for 😂
I hope that you enjoyed the video. Always good to see you.
Love it, I know no one in my surroundings that have read or are read this books, feeling like i am having friends accompanying me through this journey.🙏 I would be very interested to here the two of you dissecting Gene Wolfs- book of the new sun
I am glad that you enjoyed the discussion. BotNS is on the list.
One interesting aspect of Hull's betrayal by the Nerek is the reason why the Nerek did this after worshipping Hull for such a long time. They felt that Hull, by siding with the Edit had not only betrayed Leather, but that he had betrayed himself in a way by not having the capacity to forgive himself for his role in the Nerek conquest. So the cycle of betrayal is more layered and complex, ultimately showing that betrayals always begin with a deep, more personal betrayal of one self.... At least that's what I too from the book.
Amazing video again! I really look forward to these conversations between TH-cam's greatest doctors and professors: Pha'ntasii and Fireballs.
Hi Alejandroga, that is a great point and very interesting. Thank you for that.
Hull's arc is one I think that I should return to at some point, because the tragedy of Hull is held in such sharp relief by the strengths of his brothers.
@@ACriticalDragon Definitely! Hull definitely doesn't get enough attention (certainly not as much as Tehol and Brys for obvious reasons). But I feel that there's so much more to Hull's ark than people give credit to.
Another of the "Midnight Tides Brothers" that doesn't get much attention is Binadas, since the book doesn't show much of him and his personality.
@@alejandroga666 there isn't a lot of Binadas to sink your teeth into in Midnight Tides, but you are absolutely right about Hull (and the reasons why).
I will have to give it some thought.
@@ACriticalDragon I always dreamt of Erikson or Esslemont writing a short story telling Binadas side of the Silanda's rescue mission as a way of getting more of that character. He always looked so badass and intriguing to me.
(said loudly in the hopes that the Elder gods are listening and not simply the ramblings of a madman into the cold of the Abyss)
I am on my first read of the Malazan series, having just started it a few months back and when I'm reading now I don't spend time on the themes as much and try and enjoy / figure out the plot more, but I loved this video as it really showed me the deeper aspects of the book and the meaning behind so much of the dialogue, interactions, and characters. For a young reader like me, this is a great experience and I'm thankful that both of you were able to provide it for us
You are very welcome, thank you for watching. I am glad that you are enjoying the videos and the discussions.
For me, it is never that I am trying to uncover or look for themes, I find them appearing as I see connections between various aspects of the narrative.
One of my favourite of the series. The complexities of clashing cultures was more poignant on this reread. Canada is coming to terms with the very recent atrocities of residential schools and cultural genocide 😢. Thank you for the great video.
Hi Francois, great to hear from you.
Spoiler talk for breakfast. Fantastic!
Hi Andrew, I hope it went well with your cornflakes.
Fantastic breakdown wow. I just finished Midnight Tides today and came straight here, as usual. Loved this book but you both bring sooo much out I didn't realise. Brilliant literature.
I am so glad that you are enjoying the discussions and that they add to your experience of the books. Thank you for watching. And thanks for the really supportive comment. It is great to hear that people are enjoying the discussions and find worth in them.
The continuing adventures of Doctor Fantasy and Professor Fireballs.
A Life in the Night.
A heavy thrum could be felt, travelling through the floor and walls of the room, oppressive in aspect.
The raised floor ahead barely hidden behind faded curtains, ghosts of entertainment past, worn and marked.
Fireballs stood, leaning against the frame, a crackling voice announcing his arrival to the crowd.
Thinner yet again. Like myself. Damn you Fantasy. Why could the man never be on time?
Scattered applause in the room, the crackling voice yet again. "Ladies and Gentlemen, please put your hands together for the Prestidigitator of the Prologue, the Dissector of Dialogue, Professor Firebaaaaaals"
A flash of light, the curtains fluorescing, flowing and twitching as if alive and seeking to flee to the shadows, yet held aloft by the heavy iron rod above. Music begins to play, jangling, discordant.
Fucking U2 again. Second album. Second track. Hood's balls the irony.
A sharp intake of breath, Fireballs leans forward. Once more into the breach. The dark blot ahead, the shadow of the podium awaiting him. He reaches out to the curtain ahead..
Speak.
Must speak.
The stage.
A hand grips his shoulder, slowly turning him around. Square spectacles, pipe, dinner jacket. Of course.
"Did you miss me?", Fantasy whispers with a grin.
Bastard. Fireballs rubs his eyes with the back of his hands.
"Last night I think, the crowd is lean, ever more so since Steven has left us for all that poetry.."
"So you always say, yet here we are. You know the faith is unsustainable by Booktube alone. The populace will always need the living voice of multi-layered ambiguity."
"Ah, so we say. But they taunt us so. Did you not hear the opening music?"
"Professor doctor professor, even if there is but one of them, we must speak, our voices the rings spreading across the water after the striking of the stone."
"Yes, but still, the last night my dear doctor professor doctor, for me at least, for I have just now ascertained the deepest truth in the Book of the Fallen. For though it has the gilt and trappings of the fantastic, it illuminates the present in theme and scope, exposing us for the suppurating pestilence we are."
Fantasy was silent a moment.
"Doctor professor professor doctor, you don't mean to say that Malazan is...science fiction? Have we been...wrong all this time?"
"Yes", sighed Fireballs, "I think, professor professor doctor professor sir, we may have some backpedaling to do."
He glanced at the curtain. "Drink, Sergeant Tweedy?"
"Don't mind if I do, Corporal O'chre"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I approve of this message. 👍 Getting strong Dr. Lazarus vibes here.
@@sethulakovic3722 larak tarath larak tarath larak tarath
Ha ha! This is pure bloody genius, Paul! “Our voices the rings spreading across the water after the striking of the stone.” Long may D’Octor Ph’Antasii and P’Rofessor Fireballs endure in their quest to delve the depths of the Book of the Fallen!
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd By Grabthar's Hammer.... what a savings. 😁👍
Thank you for this discussion! I'm so glad you did this now that I have the novel very fresh in my mind. In my opinion, this novel has it all! Made me laugh, cry, scream, reflect upon... I was just in awe when reading it and these discussions just add SO much enjoyment to the reading experience, so thank you both!!!
Hi Jay, it is always good to hear from you.
I am glad that you enjoyed this book. One thing MBotF consistently does is challenge the reader to consider something new.
I didn't expect this book to be so great being set in a whole new location and with a new cast. Great book
Another great conversation. I just finished Midnight Tides a few minutes ago. I really enjoyed it. The final scene in the throne room was so epic. I'm looking forward to The Bonehunters.
I am glad that you enjoyed it. Have a great weekend.
Always enjoy watching the spoiler chat after finishing one of these epics. They give a nice sense of closure and great me up for the next book. Looking forward to the next installment!
Hi James, thanks for watching. These discussions with Philip are a lot of fun to do, so I am glad that you have enjoyed them.
I was thinking about the Sioux Uprising and Dakota War of 1862 while reading the book. I have always lived in in area where that is a part of our local history. Fantastic discussion! I'm glad to be able to watch these videos for Midnight Tides finally. :)
I also noticed the derogatory use of skin tone the Letherii used against the Edur with them being grey. Much like how red was used towards Native Americans.
Hi Matthew, I believe that Erikson specifically mentioned the Dakota Sioux as an inspiration for elements of this story thread.
Thanks for watching and the great comment.
*Ding-dong* *Ting-e-ling*
Indeed 😂
Such a fantastic book, and you brought up so many great points.
There's just so much here about identity and the lies we tell ourselves, both as individuals and as cultures. The damage and the pain that brings, but also the growth and necessity.
Self-image versus the image we present.
There's too much to discuss, but I could listen to you gents for many more hours doing just that. Thanks 🙏
Beautifully said, Rob, and thank you!
Hi Rob, those are great points, the self lies, self image, contrasting with the external perception and external projection, are really important aspects of so many characters in this novel. Thanks for watching.
I thought Udinaas and everything that happens with him and his relationship with Rhulad was one of the most interesting things in the series so far. I especially like the way Michael Page narrates him in the audiobook.
I loved this book when I read it a few weeks ago, it's my favourite of the five I've read so far, edging out Deadhouse Gates. But your videos give me a new appreciation for each one, especially here, to think that the Letherii is like a manifest destiny empire and the Edur are like a Native American tribe of old that could have taken over gives the story a lot of thematic depth. Everything with the Sengar brothers is so well done, The Crippled God is really interesting here and his speech to Rhulad about peace is amazing, a few of the duels are so cool, damn Iron Bars is such a badass and of course Tehol and Bugg are S tier characters. It's amazing how you talked for over an hour and I still think there's a lot more to say about it.
My only issues with the book are small, everyone bowing to Rhulad after he comes back from the dead is a bit too easy, I was expecting Hanan to say that it's not a true resurrection, that this is a spirit possessing the corpse and then demand that the sword be cut from Rhulads hands. Fever Witch is so unpleasant to Udinaas when he's continually kind to her and I dislike that. The stuff at the end with the Azath's prisoner escape is a bit much to wrap my head around, like there's this whole thing where Iron Bars kills a demi-god off-screen, it was a bit much to keep track of. But in all I love it.
Hi Meris, I am happy to hear that you enjoyed the videos and the book.
Thank you for watching and commenting.
You might enjoy the videos I recorded with Erikson in which we went through a couple of the scenes from Midnight Tides.
The biggest twist of all would be if Erikson and Esslemont had been deliberately mispronouncing their own names for all these years
Hi David, that does seem like the sort of nefarious plan that they would hatch.
Thanks for watching.
@@ACriticalDragon no worries! Enjoying your content. Joining Wutube is something I’d love to do had I a bit more free time!
The more the merrier.
And go into the Malazan wiki and edit them on a random basis to cover their tracks.
J'erikson & L'esslemont
Wow! I can't express how grateful I am to be following along with these discussions as I read through this series the first time. Excellent analysis of betrayal, water, magic, character perspective, colonization, and the cost of compassion. I haven't watched Quick Jen's video yet in fear of later spoilers, but I will definitely check it out! I kind of wondered if Erikson was making some kind of commentary on the beauty industry in a humorous way with Shurq. Interesting info about funerals, by the way. Cheers for making it to the halfway point!
Hi Johanna, thank you for the very kind words. It is great to hear from you. I think that you are probably right about Shurq and the cosmetics industry.
Apologies in advance if you've talked about something similar since, as you see, I'm.... a wee bit behind XD - curious if AP you and Dr Chase, once you finish the ten books might have another discussion maybe focused on full series arcs - particularly thought of that here with what you were talking about with Ganoes, the Errant, the introduction of the Holds, etc - and how that develops later... but there's tons of similar threads that could really stand a great full series view from it of course.
Anyhow, absolutely fantastic, a pleasure as always. This is easily one of my favorites in the series, and I think the point where first time through I realized I was totally in love. Great discussion... looking forward to catchup up with your talks XD
Hi Zan, thanks for watching. Yes, we plan on doing a series of videos post series that do full series looks at characters and threads, and how the complete narrative reconceptualises and changes some information.
@@ACriticalDragon that'll be excellent, very much will look forward to it... and will keep catching up in the meantime 😁
Just finished Midnight Tides, so your videos on it is a must. I think for, this was the most straightforward one yet. Although I could just be getting used to the narrative style (if that’s the right term)
Loved all the characters, and I was equally interested in all the plot lines.
I swore off these massive fantasy series years ago (because of the time commitment) but I’m glad I decided to read this series
I am glad that you are enjoying the books. You are absolutely right that the more you get used to the style, and the more you accumulate knowledge about the setting, the 'easier' it becomes to understand what is happening, why it is happening, and to pick up on the various clues. Thanks for watching.
Goodness Gracious Great B’alls of Fire - Nice Discussion. Would have liked to have seen some discussion on Erikson’s Subversion of the quest trope. One of the cool things that looms over this book is the puzzling relationship between Bugg and Mallick Rel. Erikson’s playing in various books with the effect of worship is one of the deeper themes in the books.
One other thing I like is that what Tehol is doing, with Bugg’s help, is creating a crisis of liquidity in the Letheri markets.
Duffy, I honestly hadn't thought of the liquidity point. That is fantastic. Thank you.
Wonderful chat, thank you! I am pretty proud I had suspicions of Bugg and his identity quite early on and I managed to pick a lot of the subtle details that lead me to figure out who he is. I am normally not that frightened by spoilers, but this kind of lore detective work that I truly enjoy stops me from watching videos about the rest of the books. But I've started reading the Bonehunters and I hope to be able to keep up with your reading schedule as well.
PS. nobody minds more Dad jokes! :D
Hi Livia, that is some impressive detective work. I have to admit, on my first read that while I had my suspicions about Bugg I didn't actually predict it. So I greatly enjoyed the reveal.
This time around I loved seeing all those little hints and subtle references, and how Erikson makes it seem so obvious in retrospect.
Thank you so much for watching.
I'm just catching up with you guys - just finishing Midnight Tides. I was very aware throughout the entire book of many of the themes you mention. Like the presence of water. This was a very satisfying read.
I am very glad that you enjoyed it. At this rate, Philip and I won't need to do any videos because everyone will already know what to look for.
@@ACriticalDragon In words of Bugg: "Swift as a charging wave, that me."
This was great. Thank you.
You are very welcome. Thank you for watching.
Yes, finally explain warrens but then introduce holds, thanks Steve.
A.P I always like the spoiler talk more, cause it's more understandable. Never have i really believed in the concept of spoiling. Books are not one and a half hour thriller movies. Besides i think masterpieces don't necessarily need to be protected from spoilers. I mean i have not even read Midnight tides. What happens is that i watch malazan videos, so i know what to look for, and the character names and the plot points would blur by the point i get to read the book myself.
Awesome video as ever, Dr. Canavan
Hi Javad, I feel much the same as you. But I am glad that Philip and I split things up this way as it seems we can cater to the best of both worlds. Those that don't want spoilers and those that don't mind them. This way, I think, we avoid excluding people, and we can encourage readers of all types.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts about Midnight Tides when you get to it.
have a great day.
@@ACriticalDragon While I agree with the statement that great books can't really be spoiled (hence their appeal for multiple rereads), I am thankful that you have spoiler warnings in your videos. Philip said in one of his discussions on his channel that he tried to understand as many details during his first reading of the series as he could (which is perfectly fine, most Malazan readers do the same, I assume). But a piece of advice he gives to people who are about to start the series for the first time is that they should try to be comfortable with not understanding even important things for a while (such as warrens) and just enjoy the ride. A big part of which is finding out what happens. Reading the series for the first time is unique precisely for the innocence of ignorance, and I don't want to rush through it and become as knowledgeable as the Malazan veterans as quickly as possible. It's not a race and I have (hopefully) plenty of years to do that, so I choose to savor the experience, enjoying every step of the way.
Thank you for sharing this discussion as well, it's invaluable as usual. :)
@@szokocsrobert I am very glad that you enjoyed the video. Thank you for watching.
I know that people have differing opinions on spoilers, so that is why Philip and I try to split things up so that people get to choose. The thing about spoilers is that it is a catch all category that encompasses a huge range of information. Does knowing that the Titanic sinks 'spoil' the film Titanic? That is not the point of the film, even though it is a huge event with significant narrative impact... So there are levels of spoiler, and, given how we all react differently to narrative, it is impossible to tell what someone will think is a big spoiler or a small spoiler, or even a spoiler at all.
I have seen comments that images on book covers are spoilers, and yet they are presented without any context and so the reader can't know what it is on the cover. It only achieves relevance after the fact. So if you need the context to understand it, how is it a spoiler when you only get that context when you read the section?
But, as I said, we do try to accommodate those that are spoiler averse, but there are times when I draw the line. For instance, Lord of the Rings, I take it as a given that I can speak freely about LotR as it was published in the 1950s, been adapted twice, and is a central text in the fantasy canon... yet I know there are those that have not read it (or watched either the films or the animation).
@@ACriticalDragon I agree with you about there being different levels of spoilers. As long as a certain background knowledge is needed for something to be a spoiler, I wouldn't consider it as such. As for images containing spoilers - I saw in a Malazan FB group a picture of Rhulad covered in coins (and moving) just as I was starting this book, so I strongly suspected he would come back after his death. I wasn't very bothered with this particular spoiler, but I try to avoid such if I can. I think fans should be careful with spoilers regarding character deaths in general. For example, if somebody had spoiled the ending of the Chain of Dogs for me, it might not have been as impactful.
Also, I had heard about what happens at "the red wedding" in GOT before I watched it, so it wasn't as big a shock to me as to many others. In contrast, I hadn't known about what happens to Oberyn and so that scene crushed me. That was one of the most memorable moments for me in the entire show.
@@szokocsrobert Strangely, I don't agree about the end of Deadhouse Gates. For me, it was just as impactful, if not even more emotive, because I knew what was going to happen. Sure, I didn't have the 'shock' factor, but what I had was a building sense of tension because I knew the event was creeping closer.
I'm only halfway through the video, so it's possible this will be mentioned later, but you guys are switching to a different theme and I want to write this down before I forget:
Building off what you guys said about the theme and symbolism of water in the book, I think you missed one 'suggestion' of how the title can apply to the book (SPOILERS for Reapers Gale):
An important aspect of tides is that they come and go. They build up gradually, only to flow away from the shore. In Midnight Tides and Reapers Gale, the edur act as the tide. Initially, they conquer the letherii, gain control, and insert their power. However, just as the tide will inevitably fall away, so too does the edur conquest inevitably fall away at the hands of letherii culture. This inevitability was hinted at in MT, and carried out in RG.
I'm really enjoying this discussion of one of my favorite novels in the series so far! Keep up the great work!
Hi Ben, thanks for watching and the great comment.
We try not to refer to later books as we are trying to keep to the book at hand and the preceeding volumes. It is a spoiler balancing act.
I think that we alluded to your point, but we are likely to return to it once we reach Reaper's Gale.
It is a great point.
Great video! I have been reading Malazan for a few months now and I just finished Midnight Tides.
This was probably my least favorite entry so far because it was so divorced from prior plot points. We are thrust into a new continent with not even one mention of the Malazan Empire throughout the entire book, and even fundamental concepts that inform our understanding of the series such as Houses, warrens, and the common pantheon are replaced by foreign notions. This was tough for me.
The one connection we have is Trull Sengar. For me as a reader, this was too painful. I really struggled to make my way through the Tiste Edur chapters, knowing all along what awaited Trull. Those many scenes of brotherhood and kinship… Knowing who the Edur serve, and what can only await them as a result… Erikson is a monster!
Nonetheless, I admire the book. The Beddict brothers were a joy, particularly Tehol and his friendship with Bugg. The stuff with Shurq was frankly disgusting, but Kettle was adorable. And I loved many aspects of the other POV character chapters. But this was such a dark, hostile, unforgiving read. I yearn for the happy go-lucky moments of the past, like the Siege of Pale…
Ah yes, the happy sunlit memories of Pale. No darkness there. 🤣🤣
I watched this yesterday and I forgot to comment. *The horror!*
Thank you for the lovely educational conversation, it's always a delight! See you in the next one 🤓
The Roxian Menace strikes when least expected. It is always wonderful to hear from you, and I am very happy that you enjoyed the video.
Thank you for all the support and positivity.
@@ACriticalDragon you are always so kind, thank you so much! I noticed Rejoice coming closer and closer to the camera :) Is this a sign that we might soon see a video on Rejoice? 😍
That might be a maybe.
@@ACriticalDragon definitely maybe then :P
My laptop died this week, which has delayed things. I am trying to borrow a laptop while I find a replacement machine.
I don't want to waste money on a laptop and it is not my area of expertise. So I am hesitant to spend so much money on something that might not be the right one.
My laptop is over 10years old, I definitely got my money back from it. But the new version of that laptop is over £3000 which is crazy money.
I just finished Midnight Tides for the first time. I could not put the book down for the final 300 pages or so. I don't remember the last time I felt this devastated by a novel. Unbelievable work. Easily the best of the series so far.
Also, A.P, do you know as to whether Erikson has been informed or influenced by psychoanalysis to any significant degree? The (oft repeated) themes of repetition, and many of the characters fulfilling roles/plots unwittingly, are highly suggestive of psychoanalytic influence.
Hi JD, thanks for watching.
I have no idea about the psychoanalytical aspect, but I would say that the use of archetypes is not just limited to psychoanalysis, and using multiple characters to explore the same theme or subject from multiple perspectives can be found throughout literature.
Characters being unwilling pawns in the game of gods is prevalent from Greek mythology onwards.
So there may be less of a psychoanalytical influence than you might think.
@@ACriticalDragon Thanks for the insight, A.P. The Gods, throughout mythology literature and Malazan, are quite a wonderful metaphor for the Unconscious and other seemingly pre-determined aspects of Being. Perhaps literature and psychoanalysis are responding to the same phenomenon by different means.
@@ACriticalDragon A.P, do you folks have a date for The Bonehunters video? I am about to embark upon The Bonehunters in an effort to catch up!
Thanks alot for another brilliant video I finished reading midnight tides yesterday, and really look forward to these videos.
Very much appreciated until the next time I am about to start The bonehunters.
Happy reading, and once again a massive thank you.
Thanks Warren. I hope that you are enjoying the series. Happy reading to you, and I hope that you have a great week.
@@ACriticalDragon absolutely loving the series in my opinion the series just keeps getting better and better, midnight tides was my favourite up to yet loved everything about it especially the dialogue between Tehol and Bugg some really funny and at times much need humour.
Loved how we are in a sence living at the exact same time line, as Trull as we were kind of promised his story.
House of chains was to me about sisters and obviously many more things, and midnight tides is about brothers.
Thanks once again for your videos you have a fantastic day/night.
The Bonehunters is awaiting me and I truly can't wait.
Watching this in 2023 with the global conflicts in play, and the themes in this book were incredibly relevant.
I was gonna take a break from the series after Midnight Tides but now I think I'll do so after Bonehunters.
Its just so addictive. Just like that nectar.
I don't think I have ever felt a need to take a break from a series. But, if you are not enjoying the books, then take a break. Read something different. Read something that brings you joy, happiness, entertainment, or interest in different ways. That is a great joy of books. There are all different types.
@@ACriticalDragon oh no, I'm enjoying myself immensely. Already Malazan is Top 10, Top 5 favourite fantasy series for me. I was just trying to prevent getting burnt-out. But I don't think that'll since I'm very excited to read Bonehunters.
@@ACriticalDragon sorry for the miscommunication on my half. By no means am I disliking this series. As always fantastic video
No apologies necessary. My mistake entirely. I am very sorry.
Thanks for watching and commenting. It is always great to see people coming back and still enjoying the videos that I am making.
I just finished this book and continued my ritual of devouring every discussion on it. Starting, of course, with yours! Mr. Erikson continues to blow me away with his ingenious writing and creativity. I understand why so many people struggle to rank the books because each one is brilliant for different reasons. I enjoyed some of the exchanges with Pust and his wife in HoC, but Tehol and Bugg in this book brought about much smiling and a few hearty laughs.
One such exchange I highlighted takes place when Tehol and Bugg go to get Shurq from the fancy brothel she is working at. It goes like this...
Tehol opened the door and stepped into the room. Behind him, Bugg hissed,
‘Errant take me, look at all the breasts!’
The wall panels and ceiling continued the theme begun on the wooden railing,
a riotous proliferation of mammary excess. Even the floor beneath the thick rugs
was lumpy.
Even re-reading it while typing it out made me audibly laugh. "A riotous proliferation of mammary excess" might be the funniest thing I have ever read in a book. On top of his brilliant action, his amazing characterization and brilliant world building, he's this funny too. We truly are spoiled to live in a time where we get to read his works. Can't wait to get to Bonehunters and then back to your chats with Dr. Chase, and scene break downs with Mr. Erikson. Cheers, A.P.!
Great video! I've been binge watching both of your content(not just the malazan stuff) and I absolutely love every minute of it thank you so much. I was looking to pick up a new series or even just a stand alone novel to read and was wondering if you had any good suggestions.
Thanks for watching Ryan. What series have you read and what do you like reading? That would be fairly essential knowledge to try to recommend something.
A.P, bingeing on your videos makes me nostalgic for reading Malazan again. I just finished Stormlight Archive and wasn't too impressed. I would love to hear some suggestions on Malazan-like fantasy!
Hi Nopicks,
I am sure that you have already read Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings, Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, and Jordan's Wheel of Time.
The next big series that I will be reading is Janny Wurts Wars of Light and Shadow. After that the next big series is Bakker's The Second Apocalypse. But I will also be fitting in Wolfe's Book of the New Sun.
It all depends on what you want to read and what aspects of Malazan you enjoyed.
@@ACriticalDragon awesome! Wheel of Time started my love for fantasy. ASoIaF was great but wasn't a fan of the pseudo-European world building. Thank you for the recommendations, I'll definitely check the rest out!
Erikson really spoiled me with his world building, themes, characters, bad ass set pieces. Fantasy for adults that transcends the genre. Haha I could go on and on about the obsession - sadly TH-cam and Discord is the only place I can discuss Malazan. That's why Malaz Tube is such a great outlet haha. Keep up the AMAZING work!!
@@ACriticalDragon I’d add dune, definitely agree on botns
@@scorpian221 Dune is great. I may reread it before the new adaptation comes out.
@@ACriticalDragon ah yes his sons books are complete crap though if I’m being honest
Edit: I forgot to say, thanks for the great discussion. They are so informative, fun and really help me processing all my thoughts on the books!
I agree that looking at this story as just US versus native americans. However, by looking at this story as just a generic representation of imperialism also loses part of the contents of the book in my opinion. The long reflections on societies that work mostly through money, debt and individualistic meritocracy read also like a commentary on current western society (I was going to say economy and that is exactly the problem, when those two are too similar to each other). And yes the US would again be just an example, but in the case of these detrimental values I feel it is the pinnacle of this way of existing. And I think how Philip mentioned the smaller parallels between Lether and the US, I would argue that is meant to be a bit on the nose in that respect.
Oh, I agree that thinking about specific examples is really useful, it is just that people often get locked into only one interpretation and don't think about others. Thanks for watching, and I am really pleased that you get something positive out of the discussions.
I am keen on hearing what you made of Trull’s decision (or, indecision) of denying Rhulad’s plea for help to end his agonizing state of pain in the throne room. (You referenced it briefly at the end of the discussion but not from Trull’s view). Did he reject an act of compassion in favor of pragmatism? Betraying not just the request your emperor, but your younger brother-in favor of... the future of your people?
Hi Uhm, sorry for not replying sooner. This is a really interesting question and I think that it could be an interesting video. So I am going to think about it a bit more, if you don't mind.
Thank you so much for watching and the thoughtful comment.
@@ACriticalDragon No worries, thanks for replying. And yep, there is so much to unpack in that scene; perhaps one to analyze with Erikson
Stellar work as always boss! Have you read The Second Apocalypse series? I'm on the first book and I'd love to see you dissect one of those!
Hi Adaham, I read the first trilogy when the books first came out, and I am planning on rereading them. I remember them being incredibly good but very dark.
I love that AP provided the plot of Wedding Crashers about 3/4 in 😂
Hi Scot, that was entirely coincidental I can assure you, but I am now very amused.
Thanks for watching.
Finally finished my re-read of Midnight Tides so I was able to watch this. Question: How long do you think the Crippled God have his tendrils in the Pannion Seer? How does the timeline match up with Hannan Mosag's discovery of the Crippled God's power? Is the Crippled God powerful enough to split his time/power between to different continents like that? It seems like it would have taken years to build up the army and power base on Genebackis just like it would have taken many years for Hannan to unite the tribes. Just wondering how much of this back story overlaps.
As always, great discussion!
There is a lot of read and find out associated with discussion of the Crippled God.
I would love a sequel series or just book that deals with a lot of these gods that are left hanging after the series (no spoilers). And them dealing with Paran. Sort of simplistic but I would like more with them. Maybe some answers in The God is not Willing?
HI Graeme, there is so much of the world to explore. I don't think that either Esslemont or Erikson would run out of ideas and story threads that they could develop.
Yea it is kinda weird because I’m reading midnight tides and want some complementary content to engage with so this spoiler talk maybe isn’t the perfect thing.. but I’ve already read it so I don’t think I’ll be less inclined to finish the book after watching. Hopefully even more so
I hope that you enjoyed the video and the discussion.
Thanks for watching.
The more a watch this videos the sooner my reread becomes.
Hi Joff, I am glad that you are enjoying the videos, thanks for watching.
This book is vintage
A fire read 🔥🔥🔥
You missed one set of brothers. Gerun Ebrict and Harlest. I may be a little fuzzy, but aren't the Seregal also brothers?
HI Seth, absolutely, there are a lot of fraternal references flying around Midnight Tides.
Did anyone else notice he crossed out “Phillip Chase” and put “Dr.Fantasy”????
I am glad that someone noticed it 😁
Hannan Mosag did warn those pesky Sengar kids.
The youth of today, eh?
You tell them not to touch a cursed sword, but no, it is all about the selfie portrait holding the sword.
@@ACriticalDragon I'm only 24 so I can't pretend I wouldn't do anything differently lol
@@thatsci-firogue 😂😂😂
Sorry, I mean In the Home Screen, if you look closely
I did have a bit of fun changing the title card thumbnail.
I see your literate employment of the tool of jests by masculine parental units are still in full force!
In regards to changing culture and assimilation, I would also point out how the English had rulers from Scotland, the Netherlands and Germany assimilated into their culture & become national icons: Dutch William of Orange as an Icon of British Unionism in Northern Ireland. Or how Queen Victoria has become the most British Icon that have ever “Britished”, even if as Blackadder puts it:
Darling: “Look, I'm as British as Queen Victoria!”
Blackadder: “So your father's German, you're half-German and you married a German?!”
A bit of topic, but recently I learned that I have an “connection” to Ireland myself, sort of: Through nobility on Shetland, I am a direct descendant (greatx18-grandson) of Edward Bruce, the brother of Robert the Bruce, who died in his attempt to become High King of Ireland.
Hi Mac, colonialism, and post-colonialism, are really interesting areas of study. The ramifications, cultural or otherwise, can be fascinating. Thanks for watching.
Plus, I love that season of Blackadder. It was incredibly funny... although the very last scene was heart rendingly poignant.
@@ACriticalDragon About weird resources to go to war over: In the 19th century, guano (bat and sea bird excrement, as made famous by that celebrated documentary "Ace Ventura 2: When Nature Calls") became prized as a vital source of saltpeter for gunpowder as well as an agricultural fertilizer. This lead to a war ("The War of the Pacific"/"The Saltpeter War") between Chile and an alliance of Peru and Bolivia from 1879 to 1884 and the export of Guano from Peru might have been the source for the Potato Blight that caused the Great Potato Famine in Ireland.
To this very day "The Guano Islands Act" of 1856 enables citizens of the United States to take possession, in the name of the United States, of unclaimed islands containing guano deposits located anywhere, as long as they are not occupied and not within the jurisdiction of another government. It also empowers the President of the United States to use military force to protect and enforce US law over the Islands. So the US has a literal "B@tsh/t law" to protect their supply of b@tsh/t, that allow the US President to go to war over b@tsh/t...
@@MacScarfield That one I was not aware of, so thank you for that. That is definitely knowledge that I needed in my life.
I just know that some people have said, ''but this is dumb', so I wanted to address it.
@@MacScarfield also, in old school D&D guano was an essential ingredient in the fireball spell... Or at least it is in my memory.
I’m surprised that with so many comparisons of invaders and manifest destiny being made, that the Roman occupation of Britain doesn’t get mentioned more often, both in this discussion and others.
The UK was occupied by the Romans for longer than there has been a United States of America.
There are lots of expansionist empires throughout history, people tend to focus on more recent examples or the ones more widely understood. And with this book, due to the capitalism versus tribal aspect, there tends to be a focus on America as the prominent example.
a shadow of his former self you made me spit coffee all over my nice shorts on the way to work you terrible man
Wow the Kruppe and Pust hate...