Small correction on Talisman of Evasion, it gives slightly more than 15% EHP. An easy way to understand this is change the evasion chance to 50%. If you have 50% chance to evade, you don't have 50% more EHP, you actually have 2x. I'm not 100% confident in the exact answer, but I believe 15% evasion gives 17.6% EHP. My math, though possibly wrong, is you have 100% chance to get hit, now you have 85% chance to get hit, so 100/85
Don't listen to people telling you can clean at the same time, you MUST hear it all very religiously and even playing it back and reverse the sound just in case there are some hidden gems... You go king (I didn't play for 12 years and I have never been good at it anyway...)
I was like you when I was young newer delay any responsibility and have them in the back of your head , insted do them as Quick as posible and be in peace
@@alexsuarez7017how good they are to fight against, their drops (if they have), how unique. Color code is not "tier list" lol, altho yeah its a tier in a sense of how "hard" the camp is to fight against
The fact there are so many S tier items is what gives WC3 a lot of its charm and replayability for me. Each game is a mini RPG where you get dopamine hits finding such a fun assortment of items. WC3 has me not wanting to win sometimes because I'm having so much fun with a decked out hero. Hard to find that level of charm in games today.
Helm of Valor, Hood of Cunning and Medallion of Courage are now +5/+5 which actually makes them very good. Especially to some heroes like Blademaster and Demon Hunter, Helm of Valor is practically Crown of Kings. Also Wand of Mana Stealing now steals 60 mana each charge and is considered broken in certain situations. In the meantime, Pendant of Energy and Mana are nerfed to 100/250 and lots of players actually sell them sometimes these days
1:04:03 A bit more details about Orb of Corruption and Armor calculations. Effect of the Orb is more potent on targets with positive, but low Armor, and less potent on targets with high Armor or Armor far below 0. Speaking numbers, it will be exactly 24% damage increase if the target has exactly 4 Armor. If the target has 10 Armor, it will be only 17,6%. For 100 Armor it will be 3,55% more damage. For -100 Armor, surprisingly, only 0,02% more damage. A maximum damage amplify, 25,08% damage, will be for targets with 3 Armor - as it takes the most efficient first pieces of armor and gets to the negative side =) Took official formulas from battle net.
16:30 The actual effective health increase is at around 17.5% If it were 15% effective increase then that would mean a 100% dodge chance is a 100% increase in effective health, when really it would just never die to attacks A helpful way of thinking about it is to say that the effective attack damage for opponents attacking you is reduced by 15%, down to 85%. From here, we can check how much extra time they have to hit you to deal the same amount of damage they did before by looking at how much larger their previous effective damage is compared to their current effective damage. 100%/85% = 1.1764... So they have to spend roughly 1.175 times as much time hitting you to kill you at 85% damage effectiveness, which is the same as saying your effective health is roughly 1.175 times as large!
Very good point! A 100% dodge chance is an infinite effective health increase, so the math around the duration for attacks to kill you is correct. Very nice. Does a dodge chance affect area damage? Is it like in WoW with 50% damage on dodge?
But your damage is not reduced. Chance to hit is 85%. I did not seen anyone count percentages like that, it is usually what chance for some event to happen. Since your damage is not reduced, this item can be perfectly useless. Or it can happen exactly on a curve and yield 15% increased survivability. Or can be incredibly lucky and give you 200% more survivability.
@@REgamesplayer Correct in theory, but given the number of attacks you usually need to kill a hero, it is incredibly unlikely (practically impossible) that you get cheated out of your 15% effective damage reduction.
@@antonk.653 That only works throughout the game. If you have to make a killing blow, that 15% can proc like 50% of a time and then never proc again. Random chance is a random chance and it should not be understood as a flat 15% survivability increase even if it is more easy to think about it in that way.
@@REgamesplayer What do you mean by "never again" after a 50% chance? Where does that 50% come from? And lets distinguish between statistics and individual chances, I am aware that this "effective 15% damage reduction" only works throughout many attacks.
Addition to the claws of attack vs Gloves of Haste part. The gloves is better on heroes that have an innate "Fix - dmg bonus"" on Auto attack. Firelord (Incinerate) Potm (Searing arrow) Naga (Frost Arrow) Dark Ranger (Black Arrow) [...] Example POTM: Lvl 5 Potm with lvl 3 searing arrows (+48 ptr patch) has 80 atk dmg. She has an BAT of 2.33 with an innate atk speed Bonus of 50% (25 agi) Base DPS: 53.22 (80 / (2.33 / 1.50)) + Gloves: 56,65 (80 / (2.33 / 1.65)) + Claws: 54,72 (85 / (2.33 / 1.50)) (Aura not included) So for her, the gloves are better than the claws.
also it should be considered that attacking faster gives you the chance to land another hit on a retreating unit before your hero has to run after it. with claws, slower attack means you could miss the window for that extra hit. this applies to all heroes but might be especially crucial for a pit lord with cleave?
Now that i a broke teenager can buy the game wc3 via the money i recieved from my family after passing my 12th grade finals im looking forward to enjoying this item tier list to help me understand the game
5:23 I could have sworn it was "Boots of ElvenKIND", but I can see where the confusion might arise. This is also the name of a DnD magic item, which is probably why they changed it.
Back when brilliance aura was much stronger, runed bracers was S+ tier for human versus undead, since your win condition was largely just keeping your AM from getting nuked lategame.
Goblin land mines were an instant win item. As soon as you got them no matter where you’re at, or what you’re doing…just place them right in the middle of the opponent’s base and you win. It was bugged iirc but removed very shortly! Yeah I’m old lol
Best item was the "Ring of j33bus" from the Footman Frenzy minigame. Which, I might add, me and a friend once were able to actually buy, despite it costing 100,000 gold and most people didn't even think you could ever earn enough to get it! One of my favorite gaming memories ever.
@@danbarnes3752 Conferred invulnerability and like 9999 damage to the hero wearing it. Essentially guaranteed win, but it was considered a joke item because the price was so high with the money you'd spend to get it, you could have won 4 times over in other ways. But me and a friend managed to get a game with the conditions just right where we decided, "screw it, let's go for the Ring of j33bus". Then we got it and put it on a my Meta Demon Hunter. Great times.
Yo cheers for this Grubs (& editors!). And thanks for all the relivant footage dude. I imagine thats a real time sync when making these videos but it's mad helpful seeing the items in context with your knowledge VO. Killin'it!
These tier lists gave me a lot of insight about when to use these and how the game is played overall even without actually seeing it in practice, I love the thought process behind all of these, great video!
Nice one Grubby, perfect videos to fall asleep on with a bit of nostalgia, haha! Small correction though: If I recall correctly, the red tome you speak of at 25:41 is Tome of Power that grants +1 level; the brownish one gives flat experience.
I used to buy multiple Circlet of Nobility back in the day. I rarely saw others doing. I specifically went out my way with Undead to buy it when I could. I'd buy at least two (sometimes three) and give them to my Lich that's my second Hero. Suddenly Lich has 100 extra HP, 1 armour, 4 attack and 60 mana plus the extra regen. Everyone would target the Lich like their life depended on it, my Lich would come out the gate with stats of a Lich almost 1.5 levels higher. Probably saved my Lich on more than one occasion. Glad to see, it's value is noted more these days. I'm not 100% but I swear you could get Necklace of Spell immunity on a 4 vs 4 map way back when. Might of been changed since. It was from basically level 10 camp. Of course obscenely powerful but when you've got between 8-16 heroes (sometimes more) it's not as impressive to have one that's immune to spells/magic. Unless it's PotM using Starfall. GG WP. EDIT: Could of been the Amulet of Spellshield, I know that one was modestly common on 4 vs 4 and FFA maps. Great video, all these recent videos are making me want to play again, Reforged really left a sour taste in my mouth and I've mostly played Age of Empires 2 to get my RTS fix.
Fun fact Lich has the highest int of all heroes and a level 10 Lich gets same amount of mana from sobi mask as a level 2 brilliance aura. Yet sobi mask is valued as high as it is. Speaks volume of how op brilliance aura is. Best aura in game, even more after endurance and unholy nerf.
One thing I've realized is that GrubbyAI voice would have been a strong lecture text-to-speech choice for students. The clarity is good. People would just play grubbytalks videos for hours, and it keeps me awake.
Warcraft Reforged lets you ship whole stacks of potions and scrolls to the next mission. And both March of the Scourge and Culling of Stratholme drop Medals of Valor. Arthas with +10 Int and Str, with two regeneration scrolls, whoop whoop!
If I recall correctly, the Doom Horn only gives 0.5 hp per second, so it's only about 150 hp bonus if you get to regenerate for 5 minutes. If a fight lasts around a minute, it's 30 hp for units that don't die before that. I don't think the regeneration part is that good.
It's even worse than that lol. It's 0.3 hp per second. In a 1 minute fight that translates to 18 hp for units. The regen is vastly overrated by grubby. Like if the game lasts for 10 minutes after you get the item (already kind of rare - that's a long game), that's 180 hp for units that are under the aura and injured constantly. Compare that to Khadgar's pipe. If a fight lasts a minute that's 30 mana for units. That's sooooo much better. 30 mana is enough for many heroes to get off one more spell. For casters that's a huge amount considering lots of their spells are 25-75 mana cost.
In a vacuum, sure. But it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Pair it with a scroll of regeneration, or some blight healing on undead and all of a sudden it's a valuable bit of extra healing.
2:00 it apllies to any melee hero carrying an orb. Ofcourse, the actual bonus then only applies to attacks against air. Same goes for Alch. 1:45:08 Since critical hits are a direct dps multiplier, if claws are better dps then claws are better for crits too. There are corner cases when it's not always true, since crits can't miss meaning more crits = less evaded/missed hits.
Ah yeah of course true. There was a short period of time where Claws wasn't used for Crit damage (DARK YEARS!) but that functionality has been restored.
My first ever World of Warcraft guild i joined was named "circle of nobility" and it wasn't until i started watching grubby and picked up wc3 again i realized it was a reference to the item "circlet of nobility"
I think the tomes are actually buildings in the games coding or so. Because when you use it it leaves a tiny red place holder which prevents building upon it, it is just extremely small and unclickable.
Regarding the talisman of evasion as compared to +4 armor. The value of armor depends on how much you already have. If you have 0 armor a ring of +3 armor is a little better than the talisman. the armor giving you 118% effective health. But as your armor increase the +6% from a point of armor becomes a smaller and smaller fraction of your effective health. But the talisman always increases your effective health by 17.6%. If you have 7 armor you have 142% effective health. So the 15% evasion with its 17.6% effective health multiplier would take you to 167% EHP. An increase of +25% EHP. So if you have 7 armor or more then talisman of evasion becomes better than +4 armor.
I want to ask, I think there's an item called Ankh Of Reincarnation. Is it removed or just exclusive to custom maps because is not there. Sorry if anything wrong
I really liked this video, I wish you would have created a F tier, moved everything down one and seperated the S tier into the proper S and A, maybe even add a S+ tier because as is you can't actually tell what the best items in the game are because half of them are in there, just my preference but the video was great as is. Maybe do a follow up where you take your existing list and move them into new categories and just explain the comparisons. Cheers
To understand why 5 agi 5int is not a C item (and it's great for int agi heroes)let's compare 3of them with 3 claws of attack 12 (a great item of same lvl) 3 claws 36 damage whyle 3 5.5 int AGI gives us 15 damage. So the difference here is 21 damage (a claw + 12 and a claw +9) Vs 30% atack speed (2 gloves of haste) armour from 15 agi (abit more than a +4ring) and and insane 225 max mana + regen from 15 intellect totaling 0.75 mana per second (a level 1 am brilliance aura for 1hero and a value bigger than the item brilliance aura. So only the 15 int is better than a pendant of mana that you rate S 4armour and 2 gloves of haste compared do a +9 claw might even be better and the 15 damage at start were substracted before from claw interesting how off the rating is.
Amazing, I was just thinking to myself, we had hero tiers, unit tiers, would be really cool to see items as well. This is so perfect, and when i saw the runtime i knew it's gonna be great and in depth. Can't wait to watch it tomorrow.
5:40 the boots had there name changed due to them sounding like boots of elven”kind” from DND, and the wizards of the coast threaten legal action. It’s the same reason the steam tank was changed to the siege engine.
Not going to calculate, but Glove of Haste (or any attack speed boost like items boosting agility) is improved significantly by Alchemist's Chemical Rage. Incredibly important fact ... for custom maps.
43:00 - One tiny, minor and probably insignificant thing: Talisman of Evasion doesn't strictly speaking give you 15 % more effective health, as the damage it can "block"/evade can theoretically be anything from infinite to a peasant's auto attack. If you're lucky and it blocks every Lich auto attack in an engagement, odds are it gave you a lot more than 15 % extra health during that engagement, whereas, if it only blocked a random archer attack or two, odds are it gave you more like 5 % extra health. Static health and armor bonuses always increase your effective health, but Talisman of Evasion and similar effects introduce a level of randomness. You evade around 15 % of all auto attacks coming your way, but there's no telling whether those are high or low value unless you're fighting nothing but human Knights.
I havent even played warcraft since elementary, and dont enjoy it even after trying it again, or any rts for that matter except DoW, but I have spent like 25 hours a day listening to these tier lists for last month since the hero ranking lulz
I don't think the argument of claw of attack +5 is always better than glove of haste is valid. The table seems to show dps increase of a base stats hero not considering stats and damage increase from other item. Since claw of attack is a fixed damage increase, its effectiveness decrease the more your hero has damage. Attack speed however is multiplicative so the dps increase in % should be the same regardless of the damage of your hero. So the more dmg the hero does the more attack speed is better than flat damage
15% missing does not increase the effective healt by 15%, instead by 17.6%. Because lets say you have 50% missing chance, then the effective health would not just be 150%, instead 200%.
With all respect for you 5 agi 5 int is not a C. 75 max mana and regen 10% atk speed 5 DMG and almost 2 armour for all int and agi heroes is a strong item. And it's decent on alchemist panda. Yet when you place ring of protection and pendant of mana you put them in A ...it's ridiculous for your level. Even if you can argue it's the weakest of the 3 5 5 stats(not always the case), those items could be placed about a rank higher.
Creep tier list when? Like which creeps are annoying to deal with, most rewarding to kill, or even worth hiring at a mercenary camp if you're able to do so. Just thought it would be an interesting concept
17:00 Armor in wc3 is calculated to have a fixed increase of effective health for each point. Talisman of evasion is x1.15 the total effective health, no matter the armor you have. (Bit more than 1.15 actually because of how % work but you get the idea). In terms of raw effective hp, talisman is actually better on high base hp/armor heroes. So use it on melee tanks.
Or on a hero that you will heal often, as a heal is basically a situational increase of effective health. Tldr: use it on a hero that will take hits. Make sense right?
Tierlist three of requesting a WC3 Tierlist Tierlist once you run out of Ideas Grubby. Rank your tierlists on a tierlist. Maybe April fools next year? I rate this one S tier for the sheer comprehensiveness of it all.
Orb of Darkness would be a fantastic drop instead of Crystal Ball, but a Ring of Protection+2 in the drop table of Spell Shield / Staff of Silence / +300 Hp / +250 Mp
This reminds me of when I was a kid, playing pirated wc3 on my nephews pc and always getting excited whenever I found new looking items even though I don't really know what it does, but the icon itself is already really cool for me
Watching this in a tent out in the woods after cooking some sausage patties! Cheers Grubby! Thanks for the awesome content Quick question: is there a global “cooldown” on orb procs? When a proc happens with the 30% purge mechanic, can it happen immediately with the next attack again?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, the answer is, you can proc back to back. I think Grubby explained once though that the % of a proc on the first hit after is quite a lot lower than 30% though, and each non-proc hit increases the chance more. 30% represents an aggregate average
Now thats a good play list of tier list! Love it, alredy see them all. Could u make another ranking mercenaries? I think that can be interesting to share and learn. Sending love from Argentina ❤
Boots of speed definitely deserved tier S, as what other item is as critical for so many strategies and playstyles? Only the Scroll of Town Portal. As for others, I have seen so many games where your heroes were saved by runed bracers or periapt of vitality. The instant sell of rune bracers is slanderous for such a good item, which gets much better as the game goes on and your opponents can spam more mana pots. S tier against hero focus nuke undead. B tier because of low immediate use, A tier the first time it prevents a death, S tier for lategame really.
I understand why Belt of Giant Strength is not the most exciting drop but at the same time it's basically a better Periapt of Vitality at worst and we know some heroes like to buy that from the Shop. Edit: Yea the Necklace of Spell Immunity is found in the Oracle Orc mission from RoC, in the NE mission where you free Illidan and in the Rexxar Campaign and the Goblin Mines are found in the last UD mission from RoC, the Illidan mission and the Archimonde mission from NE AND the first UD mission from TFT, King Arthas (you basically either used them to kill Farms or to kill the Altars in the middle).
yes, noticed this aswell. +DMGE from int on int heroes does not increase spelldmge like blizzard or flamestrike. But it passively increases dmge like from critical strike (+agi) cause dmge is calculated by the hero melee dmge
I think you underestimate the tome of knowledge. You missed the fact that while yes, it's only half a circlet, it also gives a free bonus item slot which is massive.
yeah, the bell curve distribution assumes normal distribution. But as game elements are usually balanced on an individual basis and towards a specific design goal, this normal distribution is usually not actually present. Oftentimes, a good tierlist may still look like a bell curve, but ther are also a lot of cases, where the balancing is, for example, more top-heavy, like here. And it makes sense, because there are a lot of items that are supposed to be used every time, making all of these items as "s tier" as an item can possibly be.
Maybe claws are better in a vacuum than gloves in dps, but by increasing attack speed, gloves give you the opportunity to apply effects like orbs etc. Gloves can be better
I think that any item that can (even in limited scenarios) be game changing should not be in C. Thus, rune bracers should be moved to B for its massive impact against UD.
Small correction on Talisman of Evasion, it gives slightly more than 15% EHP. An easy way to understand this is change the evasion chance to 50%. If you have 50% chance to evade, you don't have 50% more EHP, you actually have 2x. I'm not 100% confident in the exact answer, but I believe 15% evasion gives 17.6% EHP. My math, though possibly wrong, is you have 100% chance to get hit, now you have 85% chance to get hit, so 100/85
That is true
Your math is right. Its 1 / (100-Evade%)
Bash can't miss. Something else too, I believe.
Crit can't miss @@theMichaelFFF
Yes, thats correct math. But don't forget about spell attacks, it ignore evasion, so overall you'll have about +15% total hp, may be even less
Ok I guess cleaning the entire rotting apartment can wait: Grubby released a tierlist of items from a game Ive not played for 10 years!
This works as a podcast, get cleaning!
Listen to it while you clean.
Multitask, don't be lazy, responsibly needs to be a priority. You'll thank yourself later.
Don't listen to people telling you can clean at the same time, you MUST hear it all very religiously and even playing it back and reverse the sound just in case there are some hidden gems...
You go king
(I didn't play for 12 years and I have never been good at it anyway...)
I was like you when I was young newer delay any responsibility and have them in the back of your head , insted do them as Quick as posible and be in peace
I like how I can barely remember my mom's birthday, but I can damn sure identify low resolution Wc3/WoW Icons by smell alone.
barely is on point.
:D
Lmao
I'm gonna call your mom
We need a CREEPS tier list! Please Grubby!
Maybe mercenaries as well?
Or maybe even tier list of EVERY spell/skill, not just for heroes
😊
+1
What would a creep tier consist of? Doesn’t make sense to me please explain. Aren’t they already color coded? Green yellow red
@@alexsuarez7017how good they are to fight against, their drops (if they have), how unique. Color code is not "tier list" lol, altho yeah its a tier in a sense of how "hard" the camp is to fight against
@@alexsuarez7017 He made a tier list of death sounds, that's even less info than you get from a creep.
The fact there are so many S tier items is what gives WC3 a lot of its charm and replayability for me. Each game is a mini RPG where you get dopamine hits finding such a fun assortment of items. WC3 has me not wanting to win sometimes because I'm having so much fun with a decked out hero. Hard to find that level of charm in games today.
When you get all the claws on the BM 😩
I like it that while Grubby was busy explaining what each item does, the chat was having a flashback on Dota 1 items.
Helm of Valor, Hood of Cunning and Medallion of Courage are now +5/+5 which actually makes them very good. Especially to some heroes like Blademaster and Demon Hunter, Helm of Valor is practically Crown of Kings. Also Wand of Mana Stealing now steals 60 mana each charge and is considered broken in certain situations. In the meantime, Pendant of Energy and Mana are nerfed to 100/250 and lots of players actually sell them sometimes these days
top editing - esp. 1:14:35 - always entertaining ;) can't believe I'm still watching grubby in 2024...
That made me lol. The close-up on the slow water drinking sealed it lmao.
1:04:03 A bit more details about Orb of Corruption and Armor calculations. Effect of the Orb is more potent on targets with positive, but low Armor, and less potent on targets with high Armor or Armor far below 0.
Speaking numbers, it will be exactly 24% damage increase if the target has exactly 4 Armor.
If the target has 10 Armor, it will be only 17,6%.
For 100 Armor it will be 3,55% more damage.
For -100 Armor, surprisingly, only 0,02% more damage.
A maximum damage amplify, 25,08% damage, will be for targets with 3 Armor - as it takes the most efficient first pieces of armor and gets to the negative side =)
Took official formulas from battle net.
16:30 The actual effective health increase is at around 17.5%
If it were 15% effective increase then that would mean a 100% dodge chance is a 100% increase in effective health, when really it would just never die to attacks
A helpful way of thinking about it is to say that the effective attack damage for opponents attacking you is reduced by 15%, down to 85%.
From here, we can check how much extra time they have to hit you to deal the same amount of damage they did before by looking at how much larger their previous effective damage is compared to their current effective damage. 100%/85% = 1.1764...
So they have to spend roughly 1.175 times as much time hitting you to kill you at 85% damage effectiveness, which is the same as saying your effective health is roughly 1.175 times as large!
Very good point! A 100% dodge chance is an infinite effective health increase, so the math around the duration for attacks to kill you is correct. Very nice.
Does a dodge chance affect area damage? Is it like in WoW with 50% damage on dodge?
But your damage is not reduced. Chance to hit is 85%. I did not seen anyone count percentages like that, it is usually what chance for some event to happen. Since your damage is not reduced, this item can be perfectly useless. Or it can happen exactly on a curve and yield 15% increased survivability. Or can be incredibly lucky and give you 200% more survivability.
@@REgamesplayer Correct in theory, but given the number of attacks you usually need to kill a hero, it is incredibly unlikely (practically impossible) that you get cheated out of your 15% effective damage reduction.
@@antonk.653 That only works throughout the game. If you have to make a killing blow, that 15% can proc like 50% of a time and then never proc again. Random chance is a random chance and it should not be understood as a flat 15% survivability increase even if it is more easy to think about it in that way.
@@REgamesplayer What do you mean by "never again" after a 50% chance? Where does that 50% come from?
And lets distinguish between statistics and individual chances, I am aware that this "effective 15% damage reduction" only works throughout many attacks.
Addition to the claws of attack vs Gloves of Haste part.
The gloves is better on heroes that have an innate "Fix - dmg bonus"" on Auto attack.
Firelord (Incinerate)
Potm (Searing arrow)
Naga (Frost Arrow)
Dark Ranger (Black Arrow)
[...]
Example POTM:
Lvl 5 Potm with lvl 3 searing arrows (+48 ptr patch) has 80 atk dmg.
She has an BAT of 2.33 with an innate atk speed Bonus of 50% (25 agi)
Base DPS: 53.22 (80 / (2.33 / 1.50))
+ Gloves: 56,65 (80 / (2.33 / 1.65))
+ Claws: 54,72 (85 / (2.33 / 1.50))
(Aura not included)
So for her, the gloves are better than the claws.
also it should be considered that attacking faster gives you the chance to land another hit on a retreating unit before your hero has to run after it. with claws, slower attack means you could miss the window for that extra hit. this applies to all heroes but might be especially crucial for a pit lord with cleave?
@@paeinlitsch Thats also a valid point.
Now that i a broke teenager can buy the game wc3 via the money i recieved from my family after passing my 12th grade finals im looking forward to enjoying this item tier list to help me understand the game
You can download this game for free tho?
@@nothinphasesme5573 im quite positive its a paid game but if u have a waybplease do enlighten me
@@nothinphasesme5573 i am not aware of a way in which u can get it for free but if u have a way sir please do enlighten me
@@nothinphasesme5573 its a blizzard game what are u talking about
@@nothinphasesme5573 Can't play online vs players for free
5:23 I could have sworn it was "Boots of ElvenKIND", but I can see where the confusion might arise. This is also the name of a DnD magic item, which is probably why they changed it.
Back when brilliance aura was much stronger, runed bracers was S+ tier for human versus undead, since your win condition was largely just keeping your AM from getting nuked lategame.
Goblin land mines were an instant win item. As soon as you got them no matter where you’re at, or what you’re doing…just place them right in the middle of the opponent’s base and you win.
It was bugged iirc but removed very shortly! Yeah I’m old lol
Dude, look a those icons... they are just perfect!
Best item was the "Ring of j33bus" from the Footman Frenzy minigame. Which, I might add, me and a friend once were able to actually buy, despite it costing 100,000 gold and most people didn't even think you could ever earn enough to get it! One of my favorite gaming memories ever.
Oh god that unlocked some deep dwelling memories in the farthest corners of my hippocampus... footman frenzy was always my favourite
Lmao what did the ring do??
@@danbarnes3752 Conferred invulnerability and like 9999 damage to the hero wearing it. Essentially guaranteed win, but it was considered a joke item because the price was so high with the money you'd spend to get it, you could have won 4 times over in other ways. But me and a friend managed to get a game with the conditions just right where we decided, "screw it, let's go for the Ring of j33bus". Then we got it and put it on a my Meta Demon Hunter. Great times.
brother ive played custom maps with items giving +20k stats and unique spells on top of it . There is always more.
Footmen frenzy 3.8
Yeeeeeeeaaaashhhhh!!!!!
Yo cheers for this Grubs (& editors!). And thanks for all the relivant footage dude. I imagine thats a real time sync when making these videos but it's mad helpful seeing the items in context with your knowledge VO. Killin'it!
These tier lists gave me a lot of insight about when to use these and how the game is played overall even without actually seeing it in practice, I love the thought process behind all of these, great video!
Nice one Grubby, perfect videos to fall asleep on with a bit of nostalgia, haha!
Small correction though: If I recall correctly, the red tome you speak of at 25:41 is Tome of Power that grants +1 level; the brownish one gives flat experience.
Today I learned that items in Warcraft 3 are quite good. I will be sure to utilize this knowledge if I ever play the game.
Thank you, my cardio playlist likes these talks
My fellow youtube while cardio chad.
“They could be smart… but they are night elf players”
Cold!
I used to buy multiple Circlet of Nobility back in the day. I rarely saw others doing. I specifically went out my way with Undead to buy it when I could. I'd buy at least two (sometimes three) and give them to my Lich that's my second Hero. Suddenly Lich has 100 extra HP, 1 armour, 4 attack and 60 mana plus the extra regen. Everyone would target the Lich like their life depended on it, my Lich would come out the gate with stats of a Lich almost 1.5 levels higher. Probably saved my Lich on more than one occasion. Glad to see, it's value is noted more these days.
I'm not 100% but I swear you could get Necklace of Spell immunity on a 4 vs 4 map way back when. Might of been changed since. It was from basically level 10 camp. Of course obscenely powerful but when you've got between 8-16 heroes (sometimes more) it's not as impressive to have one that's immune to spells/magic. Unless it's PotM using Starfall. GG WP. EDIT: Could of been the Amulet of Spellshield, I know that one was modestly common on 4 vs 4 and FFA maps.
Great video, all these recent videos are making me want to play again, Reforged really left a sour taste in my mouth and I've mostly played Age of Empires 2 to get my RTS fix.
Never enjoyed tier lists till Grubby started making them. Now I’m hoping he does new tier lists for every balance patch going forward
Fun fact Lich has the highest int of all heroes and a level 10 Lich gets same amount of mana from sobi mask as a level 2 brilliance aura. Yet sobi mask is valued as high as it is. Speaks volume of how op brilliance aura is. Best aura in game, even more after endurance and unholy nerf.
isn't it sobi mask? or are you talking about another item
@@udozocklein6023 Yes, spelled it wrong. I correct
One thing I've realized is that GrubbyAI voice would have been a strong lecture text-to-speech choice for students. The clarity is good. People would just play grubbytalks videos for hours, and it keeps me awake.
Considering Warcraft took A LOT of "inspiration" from DND I'm guessing the boots of Elvenskin was to avoid copyright issues with WOC.
Think it was boots of elven kind once upon a time? Still yeah, wotc probably caused them to change it.
@@nofoxgiven6561It was, Grubby had the old name wrong.
@@highlordlaughterofcanada8685 I KNEW I wasn't crazy! That's what I remember reading it as.
@@jamespadgett8660It makes sense, the boots haven't been called that in over 20 years. I don't blame you for being unsure.
Warcraft Reforged lets you ship whole stacks of potions and scrolls to the next mission.
And both March of the Scourge and Culling of Stratholme drop Medals of Valor. Arthas with +10 Int and Str, with two regeneration scrolls, whoop whoop!
If I recall correctly, the Doom Horn only gives 0.5 hp per second, so it's only about 150 hp bonus if you get to regenerate for 5 minutes. If a fight lasts around a minute, it's 30 hp for units that don't die before that. I don't think the regeneration part is that good.
Worse than that. It's 0.3 hp per second.
I think Grubby is vastly overestimating how much actual regen you get in a game
It's even worse than that lol. It's 0.3 hp per second. In a 1 minute fight that translates to 18 hp for units.
The regen is vastly overrated by grubby. Like if the game lasts for 10 minutes after you get the item (already kind of rare - that's a long game), that's 180 hp for units that are under the aura and injured constantly.
Compare that to Khadgar's pipe. If a fight lasts a minute that's 30 mana for units. That's sooooo much better. 30 mana is enough for many heroes to get off one more spell. For casters that's a huge amount considering lots of their spells are 25-75 mana cost.
In a vacuum, sure.
But it doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Pair it with a scroll of regeneration, or some blight healing on undead and all of a sudden it's a valuable bit of extra healing.
@@TheRealMycanthrope No it isn't. A dime is worth a dime even if you also have a Franklin.
2:00 it apllies to any melee hero carrying an orb. Ofcourse, the actual bonus then only applies to attacks against air. Same goes for Alch.
1:45:08 Since critical hits are a direct dps multiplier, if claws are better dps then claws are better for crits too. There are corner cases when it's not always true, since crits can't miss meaning more crits = less evaded/missed hits.
Ah yeah of course true. There was a short period of time where Claws wasn't used for Crit damage (DARK YEARS!) but that functionality has been restored.
My first ever World of Warcraft guild i joined was named "circle of nobility" and it wasn't until i started watching grubby and picked up wc3 again i realized it was a reference to the item "circlet of nobility"
I never knew your channel existed..so happy I found it. WC3 Frozen Throne is my favorite game of all time this is so refreshing ..the matches etc.
I think the tomes are actually buildings in the games coding or so. Because when you use it it leaves a tiny red place holder which prevents building upon it, it is just extremely small and unclickable.
It's still always a pleasure to watch your videos Grubby, after thoses great years =) The joy continues !
Falling asleep to grubbytalks is like bed time story telling for grown ups
Regarding the talisman of evasion as compared to +4 armor. The value of armor depends on how much you already have.
If you have 0 armor a ring of +3 armor is a little better than the talisman. the armor giving you 118% effective health.
But as your armor increase the +6% from a point of armor becomes a smaller and smaller fraction of your effective health.
But the talisman always increases your effective health by 17.6%.
If you have 7 armor you have 142% effective health. So the 15% evasion with its 17.6% effective health multiplier would take you to 167% EHP. An increase of +25% EHP.
So if you have 7 armor or more then talisman of evasion becomes better than +4 armor.
59:09 «You could counter-play this if you were smart, but they're night elf players» 😂😂
The people demandeth more tier lists, and grubby provideth 🙏
Amenth.
@@TheUnkow Hallelujahth
amazingth
I just love Grubby’s seamless joke and the deadpan delivery. That’s why I watch this even if I’m not intending to even download the game.
This is the video I have been waiting for. All orbs need more love!
I want to ask, I think there's an item called Ankh Of Reincarnation. Is it removed or just exclusive to custom maps because is not there. Sorry if anything wrong
In the end of the video
You need to rank all your tier lists! Let’s see your tier list tier list!!!
I really liked this video, I wish you would have created a F tier, moved everything down one and seperated the S tier into the proper S and A, maybe even add a S+ tier because as is you can't actually tell what the best items in the game are because half of them are in there, just my preference but the video was great as is. Maybe do a follow up where you take your existing list and move them into new categories and just explain the comparisons. Cheers
To understand why 5 agi 5int is not a C item (and it's great for int agi heroes)let's compare 3of them with 3 claws of attack 12 (a great item of same lvl) 3 claws 36 damage whyle 3 5.5 int AGI gives us 15 damage. So the difference here is 21 damage (a claw + 12 and a claw +9) Vs 30% atack speed (2 gloves of haste) armour from 15 agi (abit more than a +4ring) and and insane 225 max mana + regen from 15 intellect totaling 0.75 mana per second (a level 1 am brilliance aura for 1hero and a value bigger than the item brilliance aura. So only the 15 int is better than a pendant of mana that you rate S 4armour and 2 gloves of haste compared do a +9 claw might even be better and the 15 damage at start were substracted before from claw interesting how off the rating is.
Amazing, I was just thinking to myself, we had hero tiers, unit tiers, would be really cool to see items as well. This is so perfect, and when i saw the runtime i knew it's gonna be great and in depth. Can't wait to watch it tomorrow.
Submitting my resume for your new editor since they kept the water chugging in this video.
5:40 the boots had there name changed due to them sounding like boots of elven”kind” from DND, and the wizards of the coast threaten legal action. It’s the same reason the steam tank was changed to the siege engine.
Not going to calculate, but Glove of Haste (or any attack speed boost like items boosting agility) is improved significantly by Alchemist's Chemical Rage.
Incredibly important fact ... for custom maps.
43:00 - One tiny, minor and probably insignificant thing: Talisman of Evasion doesn't strictly speaking give you 15 % more effective health, as the damage it can "block"/evade can theoretically be anything from infinite to a peasant's auto attack. If you're lucky and it blocks every Lich auto attack in an engagement, odds are it gave you a lot more than 15 % extra health during that engagement, whereas, if it only blocked a random archer attack or two, odds are it gave you more like 5 % extra health.
Static health and armor bonuses always increase your effective health, but Talisman of Evasion and similar effects introduce a level of randomness. You evade around 15 % of all auto attacks coming your way, but there's no telling whether those are high or low value unless you're fighting nothing but human Knights.
I havent even played warcraft since elementary, and dont enjoy it even after trying it again, or any rts for that matter except DoW, but I have spent like 25 hours a day listening to these tier lists for last month since the hero ranking lulz
Creep and mercenaries ranking incoming next. ❤
I don't think the argument of claw of attack +5 is always better than glove of haste is valid.
The table seems to show dps increase of a base stats hero not considering stats and damage increase from other item.
Since claw of attack is a fixed damage increase, its effectiveness decrease the more your hero has damage.
Attack speed however is multiplicative so the dps increase in % should be the same regardless of the damage of your hero. So the more dmg the hero does the more attack speed is better than flat damage
15% missing does not increase the effective healt by 15%, instead by 17.6%. Because lets say you have 50% missing chance, then the effective health would not just be 150%, instead 200%.
With all respect for you 5 agi 5 int is not a C. 75 max mana and regen 10% atk speed 5 DMG and almost 2 armour for all int and agi heroes is a strong item. And it's decent on alchemist panda. Yet when you place ring of protection and pendant of mana you put them in A ...it's ridiculous for your level. Even if you can argue it's the weakest of the 3 5 5 stats(not always the case), those items could be placed about a rank higher.
Finally, it has come to this. FINALLY!!!!
Creep tier list when? Like which creeps are annoying to deal with, most rewarding to kill, or even worth hiring at a mercenary camp if you're able to do so. Just thought it would be an interesting concept
man, these grubby talks are better to listen to than my lectures in school lmao
I never realised until now that the Runestone item that represents the rune powerups is a stone with the Magical Sentry icon on it sideways :O
17:00 Armor in wc3 is calculated to have a fixed increase of effective health for each point.
Talisman of evasion is x1.15 the total effective health, no matter the armor you have. (Bit more than 1.15 actually because of how % work but you get the idea).
In terms of raw effective hp, talisman is actually better on high base hp/armor heroes. So use it on melee tanks.
Or on a hero that you will heal often, as a heal is basically a situational increase of effective health.
Tldr: use it on a hero that will take hits. Make sense right?
so then no one targets the melee tank that also deals 0 damage? 🥱
@@undead._ That's what you get for playing against real humans.
@@pedrodu3626 damn ima start playing at mars server then
Immunity to Spells was something that you could in RoC Night Elf Campaign
RoC Orc Campaign as well!
Try killing the Razormanes yourself - you'll see
Tierlist three of requesting a WC3 Tierlist Tierlist once you run out of Ideas Grubby. Rank your tierlists on a tierlist. Maybe April fools next year?
I rate this one S tier for the sheer comprehensiveness of it all.
3:37 MK is so small that I didn't notice him at first
Orb of Darkness would be a fantastic drop instead of Crystal Ball, but a Ring of Protection+2 in the drop table of Spell Shield / Staff of Silence / +300 Hp / +250 Mp
1:14:30-50 You better not! Editor MVP!
This reminds me of when I was a kid, playing pirated wc3 on my nephews pc and always getting excited whenever I found new looking items even though I don't really know what it does, but the icon itself is already really cool for me
So happy that this channel morphed into WC3’s premier tier list channel! 😄
Watching this in a tent out in the woods after cooking some sausage patties! Cheers Grubby! Thanks for the awesome content
Quick question: is there a global “cooldown” on orb procs? When a proc happens with the 30% purge mechanic, can it happen immediately with the next attack again?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, the answer is, you can proc back to back. I think Grubby explained once though that the % of a proc on the first hit after is quite a lot lower than 30% though, and each non-proc hit increases the chance more. 30% represents an aggregate average
i think the red tome is "tome of power" which gives 1 level exp
Now thats a good play list of tier list! Love it, alredy see them all.
Could u make another ranking mercenaries? I think that can be interesting to share and learn.
Sending love from Argentina ❤
Boots of speed definitely deserved tier S, as what other item is as critical for so many strategies and playstyles? Only the Scroll of Town Portal. As for others, I have seen so many games where your heroes were saved by runed bracers or periapt of vitality. The instant sell of rune bracers is slanderous for such a good item, which gets much better as the game goes on and your opponents can spam more mana pots. S tier against hero focus nuke undead. B tier because of low immediate use, A tier the first time it prevents a death, S tier for lategame really.
I understand why Belt of Giant Strength is not the most exciting drop but at the same time it's basically a better Periapt of Vitality at worst and we know some heroes like to buy that from the Shop.
Edit: Yea the Necklace of Spell Immunity is found in the Oracle
Orc mission from RoC, in the NE mission where you free Illidan and in the Rexxar Campaign and the Goblin Mines are found in the last UD mission from RoC, the Illidan mission and the Archimonde mission from NE AND the first UD mission from TFT, King Arthas (you basically either used them to kill Farms or to kill the Altars in the middle).
Talisman of Evasion actually raises effective HP by about 17.6%! ^^
Robe of the magi gives extra auto attack dmg not spell dmg or did i get something wrong? 31:00
yes, noticed this aswell. +DMGE from int on int heroes does not increase spelldmge like blizzard or flamestrike. But it passively increases dmge like from critical strike (+agi) cause dmge is calculated by the hero melee dmge
I wait patiently for the tier list tier list.
1:14:25 Keep it secret, keep it safe
Kelen's Dagger of Combat Initiation IMO.
I keep watching each of your tier list videos from beginning to end. Will drop by your Twitch channel soon to give a donation!
"You could counterplay it if you are smart... baaaaht they're Night Elf players!" lol Grubby going for the killshot there
I think you underestimate the tome of knowledge. You missed the fact that while yes, it's only half a circlet, it also gives a free bonus item slot which is massive.
You got me back into WC3 and rts in general Grubby. Thanks! Ladder games have been fun once I found my mmr.
Sometimes I wonder how different this game would be if items affected and could be used by units with Backpack upgrade.
I got a cool idea: what about Unit Ready sounds for each unit? Kinda like the Hero death sounds
Ready to work S tier
"Storm bolt is like 30 seconds or something" seems about right
I remember there used to be a sword that could control an enemy unit (like posession), is that item not in the game anymore?
1:00:09 "I need more Ds" - Grubby 2024
Great tier list. There's no need for tier lists to be bell curves. If a lot of items are good, they're good.
Grubby is too extreme for normal distribution. He's hardcore
yeah, the bell curve distribution assumes normal distribution. But as game elements are usually balanced on an individual basis and towards a specific design goal, this normal distribution is usually not actually present. Oftentimes, a good tierlist may still look like a bell curve, but ther are also a lot of cases, where the balancing is, for example, more top-heavy, like here. And it makes sense, because there are a lot of items that are supposed to be used every time, making all of these items as "s tier" as an item can possibly be.
1:14:30 lol time to update that resume
My very first Mage 🧙♂️ in vanilla WoW was named Sobi in honor of the Sobi Mask item at 18:37
Wait 31:05 has me confused I thought intelligence didn’t effect spell damage? But the video clip leads me to assume otherwise? Am I missing something?
glass container of the potion of invis is itself invisible as it is affected by it. Nice detail in the design. WC3 icons are tier above S.
38:05 tome of knowledge and tome of power share the same icon
Mechanical critter can be used to get mercs and stuff when you don't want to make a farm next to it.
Loved this video. I have found these tier lists a very helpful format for me to learn more on how to think about WC3.
Not sure if you were memeing but was it not boots of elvenkind? They must have changed the name to avoid copyright with the DND item of the same name.
It was
Those "Scroll of Regeneration" dubs were funny x)
Good luck on your search for your new editor! May you find a Tier S editor!
Maybe claws are better in a vacuum than gloves in dps, but by increasing attack speed, gloves give you the opportunity to apply effects like orbs etc. Gloves can be better
Well, editor, it was good while it lasted :P
I think that any item that can (even in limited scenarios) be game changing should not be in C. Thus, rune bracers should be moved to B for its massive impact against UD.