GIN : Vapor Infusion Vs Maceration Quick Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Up until this little experiment, I have never tried vapour infusing a gin. So, lets make two gins. Same basic recipe for both. One is made by maceration added to the pot (including the botanicals) the other has the botanicals in the vapour path for some good old fashioned vapour infusion.
The whole point is to see if there is even a difference. If there is do I have a gut reaction to one vs the other in terms of preference?
In other words, this is a super basic test that almost has no point other than to give me inspiration. Inspiration to get me moving forward on my gin quest!
Recipe:
1 l of 40% vodka / neutral
14 g of Juniper
3 g of coriander seeds
8 g of orange zest
0.5 g cardamom
0.75 g of angelica seeds
Ditch the first 17 ml
Collect the next 375 ml
In Freedom units . . .
33.8 fl oz of 80 proof vodka / neutral
0.493 oz of juniper
0.106 oz of coriander seeds
0.281 oz of orange zest
0.018 oz of cardamom
0.264 oz of angelica seeds
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Just in case you didn’t realize I often include affiliate links in my videos and descriptions.
This will not change the price for you at all, But the seller will buy my a cup of coffee if you purchase from one of the links. Choice eh?
I’m the Distiller for a small operation in Country Victoria, Australia. I macerate all my ‘harder’ botanicals for 16hrs O/night in 40% GNS, and the true aromatics, citrus, rose petals, elderflower etc are vapour infused. This gives a full flavoursome, round body & mouthfeel, with bright citrusy / floral highlights.
Lately I have also been playing with maceration temperatures, leaving the charge macerating in 70C overnight, this really brings out bigger, fuller juniper and coriander characteristics,
Love your channel,
Cheers. Nick
Thanks Nick. I use a similar process using a carter head offset rig. I was wondering if you crush your 'harder' botanicals or macerate them whole?
@@peterdavis4816 I macerate whole, because when you crush the Juniper & Coriander, you get too much variation in each batch, it’s easier to maintain some consistency when used whole. I believe it’s too hard to crush to exactly the same mix of particle sizes, each time you grind. Cheers
@@nicholasscleave thanks for this comment Nick sounds like a great method, I also wonder if crushing the juniper /corriander may release some unwanted bitterness, macerating whole seems like the better idea as you say.
Have you tried comparing macerated and non-macerated gins? I found that it made no detectable difference. You're boiling the hell out of all the botanicals in the pot anyway, so it makes no sense that you'd get anything more out of them by macerating. Vapor infusing of course is very different as you're not boiling off the more volatile elements that you can in the pot. I find that vapor infusing certain botanicals can give a brighter flavour and certainly more aroma.
Hi Nick as a distiller in Vic as well love to see your set up.
I like the idea of using both techniques to dial in the flavors. Cool video brother:-)
i'm gonna do both! thank you BB!!
I love the great comparison! Thanks Jesse!
Hey Jessy, If i make a gin, I'll macerate everything over night, then sift it out and pop it in the basket for distillation.
Best of all worlds
the only thing you might want to optimize is making a good tasting spirit instead, as gin is complete trash that tastes like cologne
@@penguiin12 no
@@penguiin12 You just have a trash palate my friend.
@@crabmansteve6844 haha i dont care what you think. cologne is for smelling nice, not drinking
@@penguiin12then you’re clearly on the wrong channel goon. Take the L
You should do a run of your dream gin. Oranges in the column and everything else macerated in the pot. I don't think I've ever seen somebody split themselves between two infusion methods.
Amazing video. Id love to see your methodology for Absinthe.
MY MAN! Chasing down something that you enjoy at every level. I’ve only done macération, thank you so much to take the time to put all this together. I’ve always wanted to try vapour. I might safe my money and keep playing with with what I have. It would be nice to talk just a little bit about the History of each spirit. KEEP CHASING THE PASSIONS BROTHER, you are doing an amazing job!
I’m starting a small distillery this summer and I watch your content religiously. Thank you!
How did the distillery go?
I've always thought of the difference between steam distilled and macerated botanicals as perfume vs incense, not that one is smokey just the overall presence and duration.
I would love to see you steam distill / macerate a whole range of botanicals(at least all the common ones used in gin) individually and then mix to taste, but that would be an enormous amount of work.
I settled on this process which is very close to yours as I have an air still and a 50L pot/column.
I found splitting the harder and softer ingredients produced a better result (for those I make it for, I dont like gin that much but love making it). The harder ingredients like seeds all go in the stripped spirit for a day to steep. The softer ingredients go into a "basket". Basically I don't add a bit of copper packing and put the botanicals there free, does the job. I found if I put the softer ingredients into steep they would lose their impact and freshness and would get this bitter taste, and visa versa for seeds.
So recipe I just did.
Macerated in 30l 45% stripped spirit.
25g juniper
8g Black Pepper
15g Coriander
15g Greed cardamom
Soft in basket
10 Lime leaves
2 medium oranges zest
Sounds delicious! Love the lime leaf idea. Are they kefir lime or ones you picked from a tree? Also, what volume of finished product do you end the run, or do you judge based on ABV of the cut?
Hi Jesse
I've tried both of those techniques but have a third option which I prefer.
I make a grain mash, put it into the still in reflex mode and hang a muslin bag with the botanicals under the column. I go with a single spirit run (no stripping run) and it comes out at 90+%.
It's all down to personal taste I guess.
Really enjoying the channel...thanks
Amazing timing for me! I also, because of you, followed Odin's way to the letter, and found it kinda okay. Just yesterday, I distilled another version ...this time my own recipe and wow...it made me proud. the very next thing waiting for me is the vapor infusion, which I have planned for tomorrow! and magically here you talking about my projects...sooo cool!!! Thanks man!!!
Yes please experiment!
Distilling you can also macerate and vapour infuse in same run. We macerate juniper,angleica root,.orris root, corriander seed and in vapour basket fresh cut lemon, oranges. The vapou basket also works in this type of run with delicate herbs that give a bitter flavour when macerte such as fresh mint, rose petals, camamile.
Even before watching your video, I made a batch of gin with my Clawhammer, and ended up macerating juniper and coriander, and in the gin basket I put ginger, cinnamon, and citrus.
The result is in line with your reasoning, there are ingredients that work better with steam where they release more of their aromas and other elements that, through maceration, release their flavor better. But at the end of the day, it's like you said: it's about personal taste.
Thanks for the video. I thought I was the only crazy person to think like that;)
I made Odin's gin a couple of times with great success. Thanks for that Jesse! Some other great flavours I've tried and am fond of is grains of paradise and hibiscus flower (great for colouring your gin pink), and makrut lime leaves (the ones they use in Thai curries).
I macerate at 43% for two weeks and then filter out the botanicals and run in my small pot still. Recipe based on Odin's Gin but I vary the citrus a lot. On version 9 at the moment and each one has been excellent. Drinking one now that's had a few rasberries sitting in it for a few weeks. Simply outstanding with a decent tonic. I've kicked the Schweppes and supermarket home brands into touch and now go with Fever Tree and there's a huge improvement (except that my tonic now costs more than my gin...).
Keep up the excellent work, Jessie. Been following you from that time way back when you went huntin' for bits of copper pipe in that breakers yard. You've come a long way.
Agreed tried a couple of runs with maceration vs infusion last year and the peels and cardamom for me are now infused and the rest is soaked for 24 hours
We made a 3 liter batch using your recipe last night. We macerated for 5 days and dumped the whole thing into a Chinese pot still ( similar to yours) and run it really slow on propane. Ended up with 3 liters of 46% with amazing flavor. Great recipe!
My go to for gin from a T500 was run through a column to get 92 to 93% abv, taking heads out and running to the end. I then infuse with my recipe with 30% in the pot as far as 40% abv out of the still. This has given me great results which I am happy with. The last run, i tried your suggestion on this video, what a difference! I need to wait a few days for flavours to settle, but I think I prefer my original recipe. Not a complaint, just an observation.
I do need to experiment more I think, maseration brings a whole new avenue, although I wouldn't miss cleaning the boiler walls to remove the gunge after a maseration run.
By the way, great videos and great opportunities to change, experiment and improve!
I could even see splitting a ratio of the same ingredient between basket and pot, for instance dialing in the orange to a spot between the "bright" and the "cooked" flavors, much like mixing toasted and untoasted versions of the same spice.
I know Bobby's (a Dutch gin producer), one of my favorite Gins, macerates and vapour infuses. Iirc they macerate dry spices, and vapour infuse fresh botanicals (in their case also Lemongrass).
I quite like this experiment, I think that the time in contact with the solvent(spirit) probably makes a big difference as one might imagine, however I think that the temperature and time-temperature levels are probably also quite important, similar to strike temperatures and enzymatic temperatures work during the mashing/brewing process, and almost certainly why the orange tasted "marmalde-y" versus "fresh", because of the effective "cooking time". Perhaps there's also some things that need the water phase of the maceration in order to undergo enzymatic change, or just aren't soluble in a high-proof vapor. Definitely think that individualized experimentation would be really useful in dialing in recipes, maybe using all three techniques in sequence! Thank you for the video!
Hey man love your vids. Long term beer brewer looking to diversify my interests and has been interesting to see that so many techniques carry over between the two particularly ways to extract aroma and flavour from your botanicals. Really love the vids man appreciate it
I've always prefered macerated gin. my current favorite method involves macerating enough ingredients for the whole batch in 1ltr of high proof neutral, then running that in a small lab-glass type rig with a fairly short vapour-parh) it makes an EXTREMELY ginny gin concentrate! which is then mixed into my (proofed down in advance) neutral. it's not as complicated as it sounds, makes a beautiful gin, and my single malts don't end up full of bloody juniper!
Jesse,
Have you ever watched how George does his. I was amazed at how he controls the flavors of each batch through multiples batches. Worth the watch. Looking forward to trying both of your methods as well.
Hi Jesse, good video. I have a slightly lazier way of doing this. I typically start with a birdwatchers wash. On a 25-ish liter batch, I use 20g juniper, 10g coriander, 15g sweet orange peel and 10g elderberries. I vapour infuse, but straight from the birdwatchers. Single run only. I run reflux (aiming for 80-ish abv). My gin basket is right below the dephleg. Works pretty well for me, flavours are not that in your face but pleasant for drinking neat or with tonic. Wifey loves it...
Doing a jalepeno gin in a week or so. Plan to vapour infuse and perhaps add some jalepenos after the fact if called for.
You got it exactly right. :)
A maceration gives you a "heavier" Gin with a good round mouthfeel. A vapor-infused Gin will be "lighter" and more subtle on the citrus and orange notes.
It's really a matter of taste if you want a heavier Gin or a light one where all notes of your spices are more in the background and the nose is getting more fruits. :)
My recipe is somewhat like yours but I skip the angelica seeds.
Happy distilling.
Great video Jesse! I just made my first Gin using the gin basket method, and it was perfect. The crisp and clean flavors of all the herbs came through. Maybe you need to play with the recipe more to convince yourself that it will satisfy your tastes. This method is easier to do and takes less herbs to do it.
Did you crush juniper and hard botanicals? I have tried it a couple of times and the flavours have been insipid. I can see that with the most suitable botanicals it could produce an aromatic, elegant gin
@@larsnewbould456 I did just that, but for a 6 gallon run you don’t need much in the column. 1/2 oz of mixed botanicals is more than enough. You will have to experiment with it to get the taste you like.
@@brucekrisko4364 hi, that's interesting. You used a column still with basket?
I just did a little experiment, adjusting a small recipe I had to 1.1 litres., then put everything in the Air Still. I put two little muslin bags in the basket: one with more juniper and coriander, one with rose petals and elderflower. The floral flavours were soft and fragrant. It was for my wife, who loves it.
Love this awesome video! So thankfull for your inspiring videos and thoughts...Keep it coming man! Cheers!
It would have been hilarious when you apologise for the neighbours noise when you did the jump cut you came back all covered in blood and just kept on talking.
he either shot the neighbour or gave him a bottle of gin hehe//
You are a dark individual bro
We need humour right now
Genius! Now I hate him for not doing it your way.
Lol, this guy.
Stuck in !!! While at work on Break....
woooooooo ... thanks for your time Bro!
I've never tried vapor infusion, but I do my maceration a little different than yours. I macerate for about 2 weeks and then strain the liquid into my thumper and run clean water in the boiler for a steam distillation. The base spirit I use is a pot distilled rice vodka. Makes a decent gin.
I have made Odin's easy gin with overnight maceration and distill with botanicals, the flavor is big and not subtle. There are so many variables with gin that you could keep adjusting the recipe and process forever
Super cool video, thank you for the video.
Love the side by side tests
As very much the newbie, this has been super helpful. I’ve been experimenting with this.Had a couple of big failures (think line needles in a cup😱), but we are getting there. Thanks.
Great video Jesse thank you again. I wonder what a coconut infused rum and be like with the gym basket?
I have watched your videos for so long and finally i'll aply to school what teach alcohol making. In Finland distilling is illegal if you don't have lisences so it's almost impossiple to do this kind of things at home but maybe after i have done my school and i have experience from Job where i can make whiskey etc. After that i'll be able to make my own company and start producing own drinks 👌🏼
Kudos for using Liters!
I vary my botanicals, but I crush the juniper and coriander, then macerate all the botanicals in 90% neutral for about 2 weeks. This makes a very dark liquid which I then redistil in my 1 litre stovetop still to create a clear concentrated essence. Then I find around 40-50 ml of essence to 1 litre of neutral makes a very nice gin.
I wonder if you could do a blended gin from the two (or from that idea of various single-botanical-infused spirits) to dial down a flavor profile, like they do with blended whiskeys?
Cool video, I'm sad that I live in the Protestant Nordics where home-distillation brings the local lawman with a truncheon, not with a cup in his hand.
Things are only illegal if you get caught.
@@ffwast problem these days is that with all the Karens' in the world the chances of being caught are heightened.
Nice video, keep it up !!. I use a carterhead with less botanical than your example. The offset carterhead stops the oils draining back to the boiler as you can open the tap at the bottom of the carthead to release them. Those oils do not help a vapour infused gin.
maybe not gin, but what if you put malted barley in the gin basket would it bring more malty goodness to your whiskey?
Now there is something worth trying!
Botanical I add are
Lemon zest
Orange zest
Juniper
Cardamon
Cumin
Star Annese
Cinamon
And fresh mint for that fresh summery hit with the Citrus
(Citrus and mint are all fresh rest are dried)
x12 (makes 3+ gallons)
405.6 fl oz of 80 proof vodka / neutral - 3.169 Gallons
6 oz of juniper
1.3 oz of coriander seeds
3.4 oz of orange zest
0.22 oz of cardamom
3.2 oz of angelica seeds
Varg took over the show
Maceration is a Gin! Vapor infusion is a gin.... both are valid
I would recommend that you do half of all botanicals by maceration in pot and other half in basket and use angelica root rather than seeds. Gives a great balance of flavors in finished product. I also like some lime zest as well if you're planning on him and tonic or grapefruit zest if planning on drinks like a greyhound.
Gin and tonic not him and tonic
I enjoy all your videos . Thank you
I was actually wondering about this because a gun basket ain't cheap.
I find anise flavours, grains of paradise and bitter orange (curacao) are better vapour infused. You can increase the amounts of other botanicals and put them in the gin basket, then adjust where you take your heart start and finish to round it out.
Juniper and coriander in the pot. Rest of the botanical mix suspended in the vapour path.
I soak the Angelica Orris liquorice root Kaffe lime leaf and lemon peel over night too a couple of days remove lemon peel then add this to the pot then in botanical basket I add coriander and juniper berries crushed and fresh lemon peel .....
I also bruse lemon peel i thinking is to get more oil out
those lime leaves make such a good nice gin!
I wish you had blended the two. Imagine distilling each botanical separately and then blending afterwards.
Sometimes it's the cat's meow, other times not so much. From Jesse's preferred Gin flavors of the infused, it would likely lighten it with fresh orange and stronger juniper finish. I would of done a 50-50 mix test.
Would love further ingredient comparisons, would be very interesting.
I've got all my ingredients ,except for the coriander and it's on it's way! As soon as it gets here, I'm going to macerate it all and distill it while it's still in the pot. As you asked ,ill be sure to tell ya how it goes
I would love to see you do the vapor basket style, but take small cuts to try and dial the distillation technique for the different flavoring style.
Do you leave the bubble plates in when running a maceration or vapour run ? Brilliant channel
With the vapor version you should crack the juniper and cardamom so the vapor has more surface area to pull the oils and flavors out.
Great experiment, thanks for the video
Thanks for this video!
For the first recipe, you crush the juniper.
Not for the second recipe?
I was thinking you should try mixing Maceration and Vapor for the parts you liked before you said it at the end. hope you try it again in the future.
Have you considered using a thumper when making gin. I spent a day with a distiller who used this technique making "Hwy 9 Gin" sold by Cultivated Cocktails (formerly H & H Distilling) in Asheville, NC. He turns out a crisp, citrusy, bold gin that may be the best I've had in 40+ years of gin drinking!
Why not distill at 12-15% first time around, then first distill to 40-45% then add gin ingredients and distill second time? Like your channel, keep it coming!
I think you came to the same conclusion as many Gin Distilleries - some ingredientes macerate better than others and some work best in the vapour. I also find some need a longer maceration time than others.
If someone likes the orange from the vapour infusion method. Using the components in both ways could be an anwser. Do a combo run of macerated and vapour infused at the same time. You might come up with a recipe that has the best of both worlds.
Some botanicals give best results in the basket, while some botanicals go best in the boil. Depends on the oil content of the individual botanical.
Enjoyed the video, thanks, read through comments and can’t find what ABV you distilled the macerated and the vapour infused at, as in final product ABV before proofing down to 45%
Is a mixture of the two done? Some spices done in the pot and others in the column in the same run? Might be something I'd try.
would like to see waht would ahppen using a rum thumper insted of the gin basket
You ever experience a cloudy distillate in the first 20mL? I did 7 liter batch, which is about 20-30 percent capacity, and the first 20 were cloudy and then starting at around 25% there was some. The actual spirit I keep is crystal clear. The feints are all cloudy...
Borrowed a gin basket from a friend, worked great with coffee beans and vanilla
interesting! what did you make with the coffee beans if you don't mind me asking?
@@Kalanchoe1 I basically made a Coffee Shine, I ran it through the coffee beans and Vanilla and it infused the coffee with a slight vanilla latte flavor that carried over. I have also tried distilling coffee grounds which turned out very well however it took a lot of coffee.
@@danroberts2055 wow those are really cool ideas. sounds delicious too!
Never liked gin ! But I'm going to try your recipe.
What if you do both at the same time and see how strong it gets!???
Mate I love your stuff, big fan and appreciative learner from the beginning you got me into the craft.
I can see the reasons why but not very like V like on the science (different stills ect)
Would be interesting to see the falvour difference from just macerating without destination (with tweaked recepie) vs macerated and distilled. I'm thinking of giving bathtub gin a try, as I don't have a still and even when I get one it could only be a tiny 3l one due to legalities (which I would of course only use for essential oils ;)
Hello Jesse, I found this video very interesting - I make gin using both methods at the same time balancing maceration between vapour depending on the flavor profile I want. What I have to say is I always macerate the Juniper and when I make my SinnerGin (cinnamon flavour) I always vapour infuse the Cinnamon. I do use a 100% copper still with a 80L boiler, am wondering what difference that could make to the booze? P.S. I never use citrus in my gin's just a personal taste issue :-)
Try rosemary, rose, and clove and leave out the angelica.
So what did Mrs. Stillit think of the two gins.
New to the craft… did you say you macerate neutral at 90% overnight then proof down to 40% in boiler for the run?
Late to the game on comments but with your description of flavors, I'd do orange and at least some juniper in both. Basically, do your maceration recipe and run it with the vapored orange and some juniper.
I like your description of both orange flavors and its gin so why not more juniper!
Is there any difference or advantage to having an “off-set” basket as to where you have a dump valve underneath the basket?
and what about do maceration and vapor destiller at the same time in the same destiller???
Where do you find Angelica seeds? I can only find the root or packs meant for planting.
Love the channel. Been watching for a few years now. Quick question: can you pour botanicals into a air still or should filter first? Santa delivering air still in a few days and want to do a boxing day gin 😁
Great vid! Question about whether one can vapour infuse using a sugar wash, so only one distillation needs to be done?
Still super new at it but macerating juniper and coriander and vapour infusing everything else.
Perhaps toasting the herbs before putting them in the gin basket and getting a small char on the orange peel might help with the vapor infusion? Next experiment time.
Jesse been watching what's going on with the weather in your partof the world. hope you and your family will be doing ok
I have distilled with Gin spices through a Hopper, do not see this often. Why do you think that is? Anything fundamentally wrong doing so?
Hi Jesse I notice one thing, when I dilute My Gin with tonic its Hazy. Maybe I need stop collecting earlier ?
Very interesting! Makes sense. My favourite commercial gin (Copperwave - Hunter Distillery) about individually distilling or extracting the botanicals. I wonder if this is what they mean or if they do single botanical runs and blend afterwards??
Hi. It would be nice if you could do this again but add third option. Thumper. I will try to do that with my still. Will add a glass jar 5 liters with botanicals in it. And see how this will end.
so how would it be like if you did both with the same still
No discussion about compound gin?
Hi! You make your own neutral alchohol base? If so, with wich grain?
A quick thought what if you combine those two methods in one. Use maceration technique for everything but discard orange peel before still. Then add orange peel to vapor basket and run everything like that with Botanics in still and an Orange in basket?? How about that??
It sounds like the vapor would make a nice martini
Get that man a new shirt. Texas whiskey you are missing an opportunity here!
have you ever considered using backset from a macerated run to to retain the flavors and heavy oils with the solids removed ( maybe to Proof down before going in to the boiler) might be hard to control.
I'm curious about adding cloves to a gin recipe. I love the smell of cloves, but I know cloves can very easily be overdone, since they are so strong.
The us actually uses litres alot