Does Ford Build A Better All-Wheel Drive EV Than Tesla? I Slip Test The Mach-E And Model Y!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2021
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In this TFL Slip test, Tommy puts the brand new Ford Mustang Mach-E against our long-term Tesla Model Y Performance. Which one comes out ahead? We torture test both to find out!
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#Ford #Tesla #SlipTest - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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If you took forced ebrake on the 3wheel sliptest, it might have worked.
*Surprisingly disappointing in both cases* *...*
I was thinking about these two exact models to choose from.
I want to switch my current car in 12months time for something electric with dual motors.
I need good all wheel drive system here in Iceland due to heavy snow, gravel roads and mild off-road rocky/muddy roads.
I do not like to buy cars which fail the roller test...
I will stick with my Mitsu Outlander PHEV for now :D
You need to just exsept that the fords are not there yet the built the car just to make something like tesla they just throw shit together with the ford in a year tesla has been doing this for years they know what to do and what not to do look at the tesla and tell us why people don't like it I can tell you its different to what where normal seeing people need to open there eyes and exsept the world as we know it is just changing
@@devincardillo8589, TESLA as we can see is not there yet either with model Y. Strange because I saw Model 3's which passed roller test.
I am not talking right now about lack of quality control and poor fit and finish and general reliability issues but the AWD system. Model 3 performed poorly in this roller test. Electric AWD's from well established high end companies have no problems with the roller test. Audi E-Tron passed this test with no problems, Jaguar iPace passed roller test without any issues. It is not always the rule though: electric Mercedes EQC failed tragically the roller tests..
Or for example my Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV which passed it in NORMAL mode on CarCain channel which is basically EV mode.
(Outlander is basically electric car up to 65km/h because there is no gearbox with only the highest gear when the ICE kicks in and everything up to this speed is maintained by electric motors and batteries).
@@devincardillo8589 Tesla quality has not improved. Batteries needing replacements and poor build quality has been a big issue overlooked by tree hugging enthusiast. I give credit to Ford by reducing its mileage in order to relieve strain on cells. I have a feeling they are building a better product using the same quality outsourced expertise Tesla is using.
I'm enjoying these Slipper-E tests way more than i should.
Me too lol:))
I enjoyed that pun more than I should.
Go Tesla !
Haha nice pun
As I am shopping for a new SUV and I live in Wisconsin where we just got a foot of snow yesterday. My 08 Nav has no problem in it, but I want to downsize. Looking at this is making me think I should hold onto it longer.
I heard that if you put all four wheels on the rollers the car start crying or curse at you depending on its mood.
One big difference in the 3 wheel slip test is the tesla was spinning the front left where I never saw the mustang spin it.
They might have been more equal than you might think. The less wheel travel allowed for the Y to spin because it what almost off the pavement, or no resistance. The Mach-E may have been planted a bit better on the pavement but because of the resistance and no torque the wheel appeared to not turn. Neither car may have sent enough torque to the front wheel. These AWD systems are not meant to mimic 4WD systems.
You’re right... and if tesla would have the grip that the mache had, maybe it could pull itself out.
I think I can't afford either... Looks like I'm stuck using dinosaur soup to power my sh!tbox for a bit longer... Great video!
I know what you feel
See what your car is worth in trade to Tesla. It’s not like they’re only gonna give you $200 or something.
Used EV are around 15k USD now. Just not used Tesla.
@@hunterrrdrives Chevy Bolt is 200+ miles, enough for most but yes, many older EV is sub 150 mile range.
That ICE "shitbox" will last you much longer than any EV and save you a lot of money. Average age of ICE in cuba is ? 60 years! ICEs can roll on nearly forever. EVs? Not so much. The key difference here is that old ICEs can be maintained cheaply by diy owner. When EVs get old enough to require new main battery ($16-$40K for Tesla) it's junk yard time.
I love all the slip tests it just reminds me that some cars are “meant to be for road only use”!
Exactly, that's what many people forget while analysing the results of rollers tests. Wheelspin is necessary in many situations, that factor must be included in final opinion.
You just look at these cars and you know it's not for off road. Clearance is a joke. 80's hatchbacks had more clearance than these SUV's
@@lehelzelenka207 these aren’t SUVs the rav4 is a real SUV
@@carholic-sz3qv was a real SUV. The new ones are the same sh..t as these here.
Road can still have loads of snow and ice. I want to look up Polestar 2. let me check if TFL tested that
This is interesting, but as a guy from Minnesota, I’m more curious in the reduction of range due to frigid cold when it comes to these all-electric cars. It would be really cool if TFL could test that, and as far as I know, they would be the only ones doing it.
I’m in Canada. My car does about 1/3 less miles in moderate cold but real cold no warning it up is 50% reduced.
@@kman0074 that tells me it would be some very useful real-world testing.
Coming next week. Drove it into the rockies for a test, got pretty cold (13 F)
TeslaBjorn does these kind of tests, but I don't expect him to have access to either of these cars for a long time from now since he is in Norway.
Yeah would love to see this for all the electric cars... both without any pre warming capability the cars support and with pre warming capability the cars support. In the case of the pre warming. would be interesting to see how long before your back to just a cold battery situation.
Тест драйв Acura MDX 2020 th-cam.com/video/EkfMnaxlQzI/w-d-xo.html
Подписывайтесь на канал и смотрите больше тестов!
11:48 the mustang active grill turns and looks like a mouth opened and closed 😂👍
Noticed that as well
Good catch
That neither of these could get off the 3 wheel slip test without help is actually very surprising. The Tesla eventually figured out what to do but it didn’t matter anyway. I thought these types of cars were supposed to be really good in these scenarios.
Perhaps not enough weight
I think it’s a traction issue in the front...
Yeah, I was surprised as well. He did mention the tires probably being a factor.
You can see the Tesla is spinning both front wheels in the last test, which means the problem is very low suspension travel, so it can't get enough weight on the front wheel with grip to generate enough traction to pull the car off the ramps. The real embarrassment is that the Toyota Camry passed this test with flying colours and it's not pretending to be an SUV.
You want magic cars.
The model y clearly had the better brake torquing in this test. I would be really interested to see if the mach-e gt would do better than the non gt simply because of better barkes.
I wanna see more roller tests on cars, it’s always interesting to see how they perform compared to their SUV counterparts
What cars would you like to see?
Booooo hair loss ad. Cmon guys!
Fast forward works.
You will need to do this test with the Lordstown endurance pick up truck. I don't think the hub motors will slip at all.
I'm sure they will if the truck ever makes it into production.
Well of course they will slip if they’re on the rollers, but the hub motor that’s not on the rollers should be able to pull the truck off the rollers if the software is set up correctly.
The design on the Mach-E is really starting to grow on me (coming from a model 3 owner). Would strongly consider after the first year for Ford to work out the bugs
Agree with you, but I don’t think you’ll want to leave the convenience of Tesla’s supercharger network.
Completely agree. It looks nice from all views. I just don’t like the front part where the badge sits but the GT will fix that.
I like the looks of the Ford and the dealer network, but charging will be an issue on trips with no access to Superchargers and I will not consider a car with less tan 300 miles of range as I live in a cold climate which means closer to 200 miles in the winter. Starting with a little over 200 and dripping to less than 150 is just not acceptable. Ford needs to work a deal with Tesla to get Supercharger access. I can’t believe they did not do that prior to introduction.
The only thing that bothers me is the clown smile and nose on the front of the Mach E. I can't unsee it.
Yeah, the body doesn't look half bad tbh. I didn't like it when I first saw it though, grew on me like the cybertruck
These slip tests are great, really shows the capability or lack there of. I am in Colorado Springs so it's very helpful knowing which cars would do better in snow. Thanks guys.
This test is not a true indicator of how these cars would perform in real world scenarios. Please don't make a decision based on this.
They missed enabling slip mode on the Tesla
Cool test Tommy. Q?: Why did the rollers seemingly squeak so much more on the mustang tests? Do you always place each roller in the exact same spot? Thanks.
Tesla has wider tyres than the Ford. I expect the rollers were deforming more with the Ford as there is less contact patch.
Maybe in reality he did all the Tesla tests first and then Mustang tests after, but it was just edited as if they were switching between cars. That way by the time the Mustang went on the rollers, the oils and lubricants had worn off and the rollers were hotter and that’s why they squeaked.
@@Sabeximus lol
Those rollers are not designed for those loads. That model of conveyor come only with lite oil bearings.
I know the manufacturer of those units as I worked for them for the better part of a decade.
@@bowez9 Sounds like he needs new rollers!
With modern computers I can’t believe that these cars can’t instantly send all the torque to the one non slipping wheel in a fraction of a second WTF
It's a tradeoff.
with multiple motors, you can't have "all the torque" at one wheel.
In the case of these cars the amount of slip they allow before braking the slipping wheel is clearly an engineering decision, as you can see by watching this video. Whether it is a good decision is debatable based on when they expect to intervene, I *guess* this is probably due to how much difference there is in tire rotation between the wheels when going around tight corners, but there might be other reasons for this behaviour.
If you do that instantly, you'll cause huge issues in a hydroplanning situation. And cause load transfer to unsettle the car. You want to have controlled breakaway. It also is super unfun to drive if you instantly have TC crap take over and sap out just because it detects small amounts of slip temporarily.
In this case it's mechanical I believe.
I like the Ford For three reasons first it has an instrument cluster and to actually has a real cover for the hatch and gear selector on the Console the real test for me is to drive both cars in the city and see who runs out of juice
Another reason could be it has 115 mile range at 80% charge, IMO best electric car in the market
@@singh7374 It does not have a 115 mile range at 80% charge. When you see that on these cars in videos it is because they've been sitting for hours with the heater on trying to get the right shot, talking points etc. If I leave my gas truck running for 2 hours it shows a much lower estimated fuel economy as well.
Most TH-cam reviewers do a really good job of making it look like the video is just them talking but the truth of the matter is that they stop, read their notes/script, reposition cameras, come up with ideas to talk about, mess up lines and take bathroom breaks.
Of interest for both of these cars is that how they behave is strictly due to programming, not any real mechanical design.
That’s why Range Rover and Subaru have the best traction control and terrain assist in the world
@@carholic-sz3qv Not recent Subaru th-cam.com/video/GJm88jtxA3E/w-d-xo.html unfortunately
Actually it is due to mechanical design. Both the front and rear have open differentials. These vehicles may not have the brake power to overcome a spinning wheel. Put an LSD on both ends and things will be different.
Question is did the tire make a diff in the first four test. Also if the tire is the standard
I would love to see the pickups and suvs against eachother on the roller slip test! Are their tires too large or are they too heavy for the rollers?
Do you think with the long range batteries with more power would make a difference?
I'm wondering if doing those tests in reverse would give the same results ?
Would having a tractive (non roller) platform for the 4th wheel make a difference? E.g if there is effect due to imbalance on traction, that would take that variable out. Of course seeing the fail is also instructive.
TFL, real cool test I actually always like seeing this type of test, sad both cars failed the final test however since that is software control both maybe able to complete the testes successful.. also the Mach E you are using is pre-production so I would like to see you guys do this test again on a production version ..
Great 👍 content .. also if possible have more camera angle looking at the rolls seems the car wheels can get traction if it touch the side rail of the roller ..
I'm curious if in real world conditions you would want the braking to be so aggressive like required to get off the rollers. Like sometimes in snow the wheels spin but they are still moving you 'ok' and you can somewhat control your direction
Can't wait when You do this with Rivians
A motor per wheel, correct? Theoretically, yes.. should be very little if any wheels spin. It doesn't have to break the torque per wheel. If they don't get the programming right, which is possible with such a new company, it won't be any different than the Tesla.
That Mustang though.. that three wheel test SUCKED!
The traction control was better on the Tesla. Although the three wheel test was better in other videos.. probably the parking lot condition.
@@kevina2052 wait deadass? A motor per wheel? 👀👀
@@bphanx2 dead ass?
Motor per wheel.. yes
@@kevina2052 you got me even more hype to see the rivian do this test lmao
@@bphanx2 there is videos of this happening already.. look it up
Do the tires impact the results? Stock vs after market?
Can software updates reduce slip latency?
Tesla needs a true suv. The cybertruck is a pickup but tesla needs a SUV.
The Model X is an SUV.
@@leecm he's talking about a truck frame SUV, not a car base SUV.
@@Eeaotc02 Model X has more cargo space than a truck frame SUV and gets better than 100mpge.....
Why do they need that? The model X is the SUV they sell, and sell really well. It would be cool, but not worth it for them
@@davidbeppler3032 well yeah because it doesn't have a solid axle.
1:14-1:51 is a stupid hair loss commercial just FYI.
Yep, experimenting with new forms of monetization. Hmm.
I hate ALL commercials, but for this channel in particular, increased income = increased ability to produce cool content for us. I want them to get sponsored by Microsoft or something so they can buy a G Wagon and beat the hell out of it off road lol. I want to see if it's cheaper to buy or build a TRX. I want a bunch of crazy stuff that they can't pull off without a big income.
I would much prefer a relevant ad rather than a hair loss commercial. Like plug some aftermarket floor mats for Tesla/Mach E or maybe some custom wraps for the console. Something that relates to the content is the best and most effective ad.
If it wasn't for stupid hair loss commercials maybe they wouldn't be able to make the free video your lazy ass is watching just FYI.
@@TrueNewb Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure that's why the other half dozen ads are mixed in IN ADDITION TO THAT.
Love these tests, these can help us decide what to buy
Still think Ford should’ve called it Thunderbird instead of Mastung.
Mastung? Is that the past participle of Mustang? (Yes he spelled it that way, maybe on purpose?)
A hwat?
Wow thunderbird makes so much more sense in so many ways.
@@5353Jumper Lightningbug (although thunder comes from lightning)
@@edgewood99 the Ford Lightningbird?
Or how about the Ford Wild Horse that is runs really fast around Lightning and Thunder Because it is not Domesticated?
I vote that from here on this will be called the "Tommy Test". Tommy has earned it.
Can you test the 21” Toyota Sienna AWD? Because i am is debating between the FWD vs AWD Sienna to see how the AWD Sienna does on slip test
Tommy’s roller slip test is probably my favorite TFL segment. You should have a scoreboard on how’s vehicles you test perform. Like Top Gear would do with lap times!
Since your previous Model Y slip test had different results maybe you need to standardize your methodology a little better...
The rav4 prime even did better than the model Y what a disappointment from EVs with “instant torque”
Sticking with OEM tires.
@@carholic-sz3qv instant torque means nothing to tires that have no grip...
@@qotsa1 range rover does very well offload even with bad tires
@@JT_771 thats exactly how normal traction control works on gas cars, crawl control is even a perfect example of that.
Keep up the good work doing these slip tests.
Love the color on the Mach-E there. Seems both AWD systems perform similarly to each other. Love these type of videos!
@The Fast Lane Car could you tell us what the payload sticker says for the Model Y and the Mach-E?
Great tests and thank you for stating that you were not paid by either company or receiving any benefits including that you didn't own any stocks of either company. I always wondered how does it perform in "REAL" winter conditions, lots of snow, winter tires, etc. Not every street gets a nice clearing from the snow removal trucks so having someone test the AWD and how good the traction control is really important to those that live in winter conditions (non-California weather). Furthermore, the clearance room is also important. People tend to forget that not having enough clearance, too much snow can get 'trap' underneath the car and creates a lift so that one or more of the wheels is not getting enough traction.
Hi Tommy. This is a good test to let us know the performance of the vehicles.
For the Tesla did it get stuck even if enabling the "Slip Start" option?
That option is supposed to help when stuck in mud or snow.
I wish my dad was alive to see these modern electric cars. He lived in the Ford big block era (7.5L). Great video... as always!
Great test thank you. I was trying to figure out whether to buy AWD Mach E. I am going to go with it.
This Tesla looks a stunner with that colour combination.👍🚗
Mustang looks much better to me. Teslas always looked like some kind fo aquatic animal to me. LOL
One has all season tires and the other winter tires?
Might I suggest marking a spoke on each wheel with some tape? It’s difficult to track the amount of movement of black rims in general, coupled with cloudy filming conditions, viewed on a small screen.
Have you tested the new all-electric XC40 recharge? Or the Polestar 2?
That last test actually is quite telling. The Tesla is clearly putting power to the wheel that has traction, but it’s not getting a grip and thus spinning. The Ford doesn’t even appear to be putting ANY power to that same wheel. If these cars where on snow for example, I’d put money on the Tesla performing much better.
Do you have a comprehensive results list anywhere?
For whatever reason this reminds me of 90's traction control systems... at some point pushing through ridges of slush I'd turn the traction control off and push hard on the throttle just to dig through the mess.
Does the Mustang Mach-E adjust output to individual wheels like you said the Model Y does? From watching it looks more like the Ford just tries to power its way off of the blocks.
I'm excited to see how the Rivian will do on the 3 wheel slip test with a motor at each wheel. Will differentials be obsolete?
I too would like to see the test with all four wheels on rollers, to verify that the tests are not compromised by the rollers having friction and being imperfect. I wonder if these vehicles will do better on the 3-wheel slip test in the future with software updates -- such as by the time the Cybertruck ships.
Tommy or chat. Where can a person buy i set of those ramps and rollers or are they homemade
While an interesting experiment, this is likely to have little bearing on real world driving experience. A good design allows for many other variables such as some wheel slip to clear snow or dirt from under the tire.
And getting your self stuck in a hole made by the tires?🤔 Really don’t think that more wheel spin is a great idea.
Would like to see a video on how the electric motor drives each wheel
Ford has demonstrated that it is possible for legacy automakers to make a decent electric car that now allows consumers a choice of designs, instead of having to accept the Tesla suppository shape.
But at a substantial hit in efficiency, of course.
Yeah, i also firmly believe that the ford will have more repairability than the tesla. Since tesla has everything around repairs so locked down to "their dealer only" , a reputable mechanic with his same ford diagnostic computer will be able to fix stuff on the mach e... (Like the increasing amount of parts like dash clusters, and silly stuff like window regulators, and climate stuff that need to be programmed by a professional scantool before they work).
@@volvo09 Tesla’s don’t have dealership though. Or should I say stealership
@@volvo09 That will change with laws and demand. A good independent Tesla repair shop in central TX would do well.
@@martialman.4563 in about a year there will be a GIGANTIC factory in Austin. Just sneak in to get your parts.
That last test is a good case for one motor per wheel. I await this test on the Rivians.
The Mustang is a 'standard drive' not 'extended drive'? Wouldn't the extra HP on the xtended drive perform better on the slip test?
I think those rollers are screaming for help. LOL. Great video.
Is it possible to modify the rollers to count the number of wheel turns before the car comes unstuck? Also measure how much time the vehicle took to come off the rollers. That’s probably a more objective measure of this test ?
My 2014 mustang has about the same ground clearance as the Mach E. The lower COG of the Mach E is great for handling, but it isn't going to perform better than an AWD car in terms of adverse terrain.
It would be interesting to see a redo of the last test with both vehicles, but this time have the driver side front tires on solid platforms so they are at the same level as the tires on rollers. Might be a weight issue rather than a traction issue.
Interested to see the Loveland pass run if you have that planned
Love the Mach E look. Can't wait to see the GT.
Agreed. The Cyber Orange version is sick! 😍
www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/models/mach-e-gt/
Would like to see a comparison in greater detail of both cars. Thanks
What’s the weight of the two cars? Another tuber says Mach E is 4800 lbs, but is that AWD or 2WD ?
11:45 Am I right that the left front was actually slipping on the tarmac for the TESLA? IOW the problem was weight distribution not traction control that caused the TESLA not to get of the rollers?
Yes
That's some awesome testing! Kudos!
Impressed by Model Y's performance!
I think the gasoline suvs can get off of the three wheeled test with only the front left on the ground is because they have the weight if the engine in the front.
He did the same test 1yr ago with the Ford Edge. It got off the rollers on 1 wheel. They have some work to do on theses electric AWD systems.
By the way, to get off the 3 rollers, modulate the use of gas and brakes at the same time.
How does it do on ice up a hill compared to other vehicles?
why do you turn the steering sooner or later?
interesting tests. never thought to put rollers under the tires. :)
Awesome work. Waiting for Rivian
Which one has better headlights?
I think you should also have off road/winter mode as a test in these things.
Because that's what they where built for, to maximize, so you should put them to see who can do the best when they are actually thinking (computer wise) about how to tackle it rather than giving sub par effort.
I noticed with the Tesla . 3 wheel stuck. steering wheel cranked to the right , while with the ford , same scenario Didint really move the wheel. Was that you or the car cranking the wheel
Did you do a comparison between Bronco Sport and Subaru? Would like to see that.
Does anyone know if these things have diffs?
Can we get a camera looking at your foot on the accelerator so we can see what a lot or a little throttle is?
Do an Excel table. Compare the 2 cars item by item. Price, 0-60, real world range, cornering, ride, stopping. Etc...
11:50
The air dam action is cool
I feel that drive modes would change the outcomes?
It would be interesting if you were to collect data on these experiments and rank them accordingly. Something like the Gold Hitch Awards.
Grear job as always
I forsee an over the air software update for these models in the very near future, Thanks TFL!
I'd like to see a camera on your foot to see the pedal to spin action
Ford used Borg Warner iDM for their electric motor axle. I couldn't find detailed specs. I believe it doesn't have limited slip differential or torque vectoring via clutches. So the system is using the brakes to transfer torque. Therefore 100% torque transfer is not possible.
Why is that? Brake based torque vectoring should be able to send 100% of the available torque on the axle to one wheel if designed properly.
@@celderian I'm not an engineer. I don't have an answer to that. Watch some videos of Audi Quattro 3 wheel roller test. Those do get off the rollers eventually, not perfect. In real world driving my Quattro and a truck with LSD is much smoother than my Escape with brake based torque vectoring.
@@celderian It doesn't work this way. If car is using an open diff then torque split is always 50/50. Brakes can increase the overall torque on the diff, they actually cannot direct it to one wheel.
Any chance you can count the rotations of the slipping tires. It would be interesting to quantify number of rotations before the grounded wheel is engaged. Also, do you know why they don't use electronics to control this? You mentioned, they apply a braking force to the slipping wheels to force the wheel on the ground to get torque. I thought these manufacturers brag that computers can recognize a fraction of a percent difference in grip and adjust on the fly. If you were driving down the road and came across ice at even 30mph, there is no way I would want to wait this long for the car to figure out which tire is on solid ground.
I would love to see a new subaru w/CVT vs an older model with a traditional automatic and VSC on the TFL slip test. I've heard the CVT seriously neuters the awd capability.
There are no problems caused by CVT in these tests, there is not much power/torque needed here. The oldest Forester with AT and VSC that I tested was from 2007, it wasn't any better than newer ones with CVT.
Wondering if they will update to give it 50+ more miles of range. May be easing into it
Please re-do 3-wheel slip test for a Model 3/Y with Track Mode settings enabled :)
This^^
No slip start available on the model Y?
Ford should just see this and issue a software update haha!
Ford has that capability. They will be providing a self-driving feature in the next few months through OTA updates.
@@stephenj4937 and I would not trust it with my life 😂
@@dor1tomcswagger69 I mean they technically already have it with the self parking which they've had since 2012 so I'd trust them to a certain point. But I wouldn't trust any fully automated driving car or system ever
Tommy, can you put a camera in the front on the ground so that we can see if there is any slippage
Great video Tommy! So would we say the EVs are rear wheel biased? A lot more wheel spin in the rear, amd the front wheel with traction struggled.
hmm at 8:16 you said you put it into neutral but I could hear the parking break??
Tommy, these slip tests are great. Questions, how would mechanical limited slip diffs(LSD) in a vehicle with a transfer case or center lock differential perform in these tests? Wouldn’t mechanical LDSs be a simpler and cheaper solution than all of this electronic “hocus pocus”?