Yea. I was holding my breath the entire time, afraid he was going to 'reach out to someone for comment'. Hopefully we can all move on from this episode.
I was skeptical of the horn bit when first announced but now find it increasingly funny and look forward to where it will land each week. Great Player Investment design Kyle.
As someone who works in HR / recruitment, I can say that almost all job descriptions are plagiarized from other similar job postings. Most HR people are rushed or too lazy so they just Google a job posting and copy it verbatim (like Midnight Society) or paraphrase it (like Guerilla Games). HR people don't know the job descriptions they are hiring for, and hiring managers are too busy / too lazy to write a new one from scratch. So plagiarism is an easy solution with a low risk of real life consequences.
I think you’re a little mean to your field 😊. I think it’s more the responsibility of the hiring manager or team than HR. How can HR know what the team is looking for (unless HR is the team hiring, of course)? And should HR have to hunt down the responsible person? No. I can’t imagine relying on what HR would come up with. I always write job descriptions for positions in my field when we get headcount, but even then, descriptions will have similarities, because positions do. Especially when you’re dealing with highly regulated fields. All that said, I doubt Player Investment is highly regulated yet. 😂
Wonder if Sony's recent purchase of Bungie has anything to do with them starting to integrate these kinds of roles into Santa Monica Studios and Guerilla Games?
Player investment design sounds like one of those jobs that game designers used to do but as teams and games get bigger and bigger they now have specialized people for them who rely on data and simulations, not just intuition. If you ask me, I do want my diablo-clone games to have a player investment design department so that the rate of loot is just right. Too high or too low can be really detrimental for such a type of game. For God of War, I haven't played Ragnarok but I have played the previous one. I am an RPG player first and foremost. I play narrative games, I play action games from time to time and I would probably have played God of War 2018 regardless. However it is the RPG elements that sold it for me. That drive to do side content to improve Kratos' gear and finally be able to beat the optional bosses. Niflheim for me was a masterclass in player investment design. If it was too long or too grindy I would probably not do it, or even if I did it would colour my opinion of the game negatively. Now it feels like a fun rogue-like mode within the game that added variety but wasn't too hard and didn't overstay its welcome. You could have the same writing, same performances, same music, same environmental assets and still with bad player investment design make it too long and drag the whole game down.
Minor correction for post credits bit: I believe that’s a word search not a crossword puzzle. At least it is in the UK, perhaps not in the US? Great video as always Kyle :)
I was wondering if calling it a crossword was a part of the bit because it's definitely called word search in the US too. The name of the game on the bag even said search
This is how he gets some extra engagement. He says something wrong on purpose so that people comment about it. And I'm more than willing to give him that engagement lol
Great video Kyle! I once met a lady who worked for a toothbrush company making an app that helped kids get invested in brushing their teeth. Scary how powerful incentives are for investment!
Speaking from firsthand experience writing job descriptions for game dev jobs - this kind of half-assed plagiarism is ABSOLUTELY the norm and it's hilarious to see it called out in this way.
I hate the unending trend of shitty and manipulative stuff that gets added into otherwise good games that people put up with and somehow crystallizes into being believed to be the crucial appeal of the game.
Me: HOLY SHIT, I need to show people this video. Also me: the title or thumb won't hook them and I don't have faith they have the attention span to register what this presents
Player investment design seems like one of those things that you need at a triple A game level when there's hundreds of people siloed off in different teams. You probably need a group there to make sure the entire progression meshes together. Like, maybe if you have too low level of a reward in an early side-quest causes a drop off in people completing subsequent side-quests and missing a lot of content a bunch of the budget was spent on. Having one team in charge of tracking that seems to make sense. Having had to write job specs before for a niche field it's normally easiest to just follow the naming that's out there for a role.
That would be up to the game designers. Look into ghostcrawler, he specifically says that it was his role as lead game designer to make sure all of the other parts came together cohesively. I hate to say it, but you are perpetuating bullshit and should just delete your comment for being wrong.
That is part of our job, yes. We own Progression/Economy and all the quests. Existing in both worlds allows us to make sure you get the right reward for your efforts. Your assumption is correct, Quests generally score lower in playtests when the reward is not "good"
@@dabajabaza111 "That would be up to the game designers". The player investment designers are game designers. That's why they're listed alongside the other game design teams. Not sure what looking into Greg Street is going to add here. He's got an impressive background but different companies are going to structure their design teams in different ways. A lead game designer or director is always going to have to sit over the disparate game design teams and ensure they are all coming up with something cohesive. Also, I have a feeling you didn't hate telling me to delete my comment but whatever..
I hope it's Kyle announcing who's winning a Steam Deck every minute for the people watching the game awards via Steam, or showing us random cross word puzzles in the lower left hand corner of the stream. Think of how invested we'll be.
I've been a Lead Sugar Designer in the industry for seven years now, and I really appreciate the shoutout to our very underappreciated contributions to video game development!
I remember when I saw a news youtube channels captions that were much different than what was being said. It was some evil stuff. Very scary. Hidden in the captions.
I'm terrible for skipping side quests in games. I almost always get caught up in the main story and end up missing out on a lot. Ragnarok was an exception. I went out of my way to complete any quests I came across. So I reckon you and the team did a great job. You can consider me invested. Did the team get any chance to do interviews for the mini-docs that Kyle didn't notice? Noclip had a good one a few years back on the Witcher 3 that I'm sure you're probably aware of. I think there's an appetite for that kind of stuff. It looks like there's probably not a lot of content about the field in general out there yet.
@@thewisefool4049 unfortunately we are not on any of the Behind the Scenes videos, but I'm hoping to put a blog together to talk more about our process. Thanks for playing!
Isn't this what we call Nintendo's Logic? When you get to place where you say to yourself: "It'd be great if there was something across this out of the way gap that leads to a platform?" and there is!
If you're ever bored of videogames, you can pay a onetime membership fee to WordMint and make all the Search-a-Word and Crossword Puzzles to your heart's delight. The Search-a-Words are even autopopulated with the same letters from the words you're searching. Endless fun for the whole family, so you could print off a bunch of your own and share them with the everyone at Christmas. What an entertaining time!
"copy pasted from a 2010 Bungie job description" is a good insult for a lot of dumb game stuff because it feels way too reductive to be true in a funny way
You're getting dangerously close to real journalism with this video
The horn keeps it from becoming real journalism, so we’re safe
Yea. I was holding my breath the entire time, afraid he was going to 'reach out to someone for comment'. Hopefully we can all move on from this episode.
We´re safe... for now.
Well, I'd argue that the research Kyle has done for this video goes way beyond the stuff "real journalists" usually do for their pieces ... ;)
We support journalism in gaming.
We stan an astute Kyle with journalistic endeavors and has an angle and bojangles.
After much research, I have discovered that Kyle Bossman is the best 1 to 1 representation of Peter Parker in our universe.
He sounds just like Tobey Maguire, and looks a little like him too
WARNING: Kyle says there are no spoilers for God of War in this episode, which is true, there are however spoilers for Solar Search. Just a heads-up.
Specifically, Solar Searchers should stop watching at 12:30.
If you just want to know the score, skip to 13:53
“Workaholic gamophile” made me flinch
*honk*
This is the team that's "up to something."
Lmao, Kyle on point as always.
I was skeptical of the horn bit when first announced but now find it increasingly funny and look forward to where it will land each week. Great Player Investment design Kyle.
Did Kyle really just happen to discover a mundane conspiracy?
As someone who works in HR / recruitment, I can say that almost all job descriptions are plagiarized from other similar job postings. Most HR people are rushed or too lazy so they just Google a job posting and copy it verbatim (like Midnight Society) or paraphrase it (like Guerilla Games). HR people don't know the job descriptions they are hiring for, and hiring managers are too busy / too lazy to write a new one from scratch. So plagiarism is an easy solution with a low risk of real life consequences.
I think you’re a little mean to your field 😊. I think it’s more the responsibility of the hiring manager or team than HR. How can HR know what the team is looking for (unless HR is the team hiring, of course)? And should HR have to hunt down the responsible person? No. I can’t imagine relying on what HR would come up with. I always write job descriptions for positions in my field when we get headcount, but even then, descriptions will have similarities, because positions do. Especially when you’re dealing with highly regulated fields. All that said, I doubt Player Investment is highly regulated yet. 😂
I don't know why that Oxford Comma bit got me, but it did.
Probably because it was humorous, delightful and clever.
Thanks for letting the Brazilian Voice Actor in the clip, such a nice guy,
Muito maneira as vozes do Kratos em Português e em Inglês.
"Oh baby a new enchantment" is something I will start saying while playing Magic: The Gathering from now on.
Wonder if Sony's recent purchase of Bungie has anything to do with them starting to integrate these kinds of roles into Santa Monica Studios and Guerilla Games?
There's also a diagonal "eat ant" on the lower left side.
Nothing naughty, I think. Just wanted to point that out.
Bug protein propaganda. Timon and Pumba was just the start! 🕵
Player investment design sounds like one of those jobs that game designers used to do but as teams and games get bigger and bigger they now have specialized people for them who rely on data and simulations, not just intuition. If you ask me, I do want my diablo-clone games to have a player investment design department so that the rate of loot is just right. Too high or too low can be really detrimental for such a type of game.
For God of War, I haven't played Ragnarok but I have played the previous one. I am an RPG player first and foremost. I play narrative games, I play action games from time to time and I would probably have played God of War 2018 regardless. However it is the RPG elements that sold it for me. That drive to do side content to improve Kratos' gear and finally be able to beat the optional bosses.
Niflheim for me was a masterclass in player investment design. If it was too long or too grindy I would probably not do it, or even if I did it would colour my opinion of the game negatively. Now it feels like a fun rogue-like mode within the game that added variety but wasn't too hard and didn't overstay its welcome. You could have the same writing, same performances, same music, same environmental assets and still with bad player investment design make it too long and drag the whole game down.
Minor correction for post credits bit: I believe that’s a word search not a crossword puzzle. At least it is in the UK, perhaps not in the US? Great video as always Kyle :)
I was wondering if calling it a crossword was a part of the bit because it's definitely called word search in the US too. The name of the game on the bag even said search
We also call it word search. Crossword puzzles are ones where you have to fill in the boxes by answering questions
This is how he gets some extra engagement. He says something wrong on purpose so that people comment about it. And I'm more than willing to give him that engagement lol
This episode was top Kyle. Amazing player investment deep dive followed by a belter of a bonus bit. For some reason I lost it at "Jupirs" and "10/10"😂
Brilliant episode, my favourite for a while. The comportment penny drop was funny as hell
Please do more of these, this was amazing!
So now I know who's responsible for Atreus and Mimir commenting all the time and spoiling puzzles , thanks Kyle
That would be the UX people, the "human-first", "gamer-centric" & "emotional design" charlatans.
I hate it when anyone does that in a game. Lara herself does it throughout CD’s TR reboot trilogy.
Infuriating and you can’t turn it off.
I enjoyed the whole video but I don't know, that random end bit was the icing on the cake. "CNUT, careful bro".
Great video Kyle! I once met a lady who worked for a toothbrush company making an app that helped kids get invested in brushing their teeth. Scary how powerful incentives are for investment!
God, I love you Kyle! How you come up with your subjects for each video astounds me :P
this was such an interesting episode lmao I was not expecting this topic
I'm glad that clip from the mini doc showed some people from the UI/UX team so I can put faces to my disdain for the menu system.
Speaking from firsthand experience writing job descriptions for game dev jobs - this kind of half-assed plagiarism is ABSOLUTELY the norm and it's hilarious to see it called out in this way.
Replacing Uranus with Galaxy is freaking criminal.
I hate the unending trend of shitty and manipulative stuff that gets added into otherwise good games that people put up with and somehow crystallizes into being believed to be the crucial appeal of the game.
the music when reading job listing descriptions 😂
Because of the theme of today's episode, I was expecting a bonus bit with Kyle restoring his Marvel Snap account.
He never deleted it lol
Thumbs up! 👍
Same.
This episode was 100% pure, Colombian Bosman.
My mind every time Kyle said crossword puzzle…”word search” “it’s a word search” “WORD SEARCH”
We're through the looking glass here people...
Kyle's hushed voice saying, "oh my god, cnut, careful bro," made me laugh out loud.
Judging from the unexpected journey this video took, I don't know whether Kyle would be a joy or a nightmare for a DM to have as a D&D player.
Top Tier videogames journalism. Nice T-shirt, btw
Dude, you were not kidding when you said No Spoilers for God of War Ragnarok.
Me: HOLY SHIT, I need to show people this video.
Also me: the title or thumb won't hook them and I don't have faith they have the attention span to register what this presents
Surprised you mentioned naughty words in the crossword puzzle without mentioning they had every planet except Uranus. They just skipped that one 😅
I was expecting another questioning look into the camera, I got a honk. Definitely in the Top Ten Honks Of All Time.
It is a WORD SEARCH darn it!
This video is already legendary.
I really enjoy this channel a lot.
You are a video journo gem! You got me invested in this channel, no one else!
This video is a fucking slam dunk.
"player investment design" aka how long can we keep them on a hamster wheel
This video is FASCINATINg, wow.
edit:
10:19
The answer
Infinite content ! ITS HERE AGAIN
So basically the ones who design gacha
I sit through every credit sequence in every game. Have since I was a child.
This is too good. If one day Kyle decides to quit, we will be forever in the dark.
Player investment design seems like one of those things that you need at a triple A game level when there's hundreds of people siloed off in different teams. You probably need a group there to make sure the entire progression meshes together. Like, maybe if you have too low level of a reward in an early side-quest causes a drop off in people completing subsequent side-quests and missing a lot of content a bunch of the budget was spent on. Having one team in charge of tracking that seems to make sense. Having had to write job specs before for a niche field it's normally easiest to just follow the naming that's out there for a role.
You call them the player investment design team duh.
That would be up to the game designers. Look into ghostcrawler, he specifically says that it was his role as lead game designer to make sure all of the other parts came together cohesively.
I hate to say it, but you are perpetuating bullshit and should just delete your comment for being wrong.
That is part of our job, yes. We own Progression/Economy and all the quests. Existing in both worlds allows us to make sure you get the right reward for your efforts. Your assumption is correct, Quests generally score lower in playtests when the reward is not "good"
@@dabajabaza111 "That would be up to the game designers".
The player investment designers are game designers. That's why they're listed alongside the other game design teams.
Not sure what looking into Greg Street is going to add here. He's got an impressive background but different companies are going to structure their design teams in different ways. A lead game designer or director is always going to have to sit over the disparate game design teams and ensure they are all coming up with something cohesive.
Also, I have a feeling you didn't hate telling me to delete my comment but whatever..
Luke smith is also the co-host of 2 of the best gaming podcasts of all time (1-up yours / out of the game)
Are you going to be on an EZA podcast again next week when you're in LA? *_* That would be lovely.
As the single viewer that was not aware of what comportment means, I thank you.
I hope it's Kyle announcing who's winning a Steam Deck every minute for the people watching the game awards via Steam, or showing us random cross word puzzles in the lower left hand corner of the stream. Think of how invested we'll be.
What kind of sugar are you gonna sprinkle on the Game Awards for us, Kyle? Looking forward to finding out! :)
Incredible vid. All your recent work is your best stuff
That bungie job description is nothing but red flags
Where can I buy the 10/10 game Kyle did a review for in the end of the video?
The music! lol so tense
I've been a Lead Sugar Designer in the industry for seven years now, and I really appreciate the shoutout to our very underappreciated contributions to video game development!
If you're not kidding, can you find your old job description, and if so does it match the same 13-year old Bungie template??
The car horn cracked me up this week!
This was a good episode, genuinely interesting to hear about your investigation. Worth a like.
I found TUPAC in the word search!
Honk Rating - 9/10, So close to perfection, audible chuckle. Would enjoy this honk again.
That crossword bit was epic 😂 I see lawsuit from that cereal company 😂
I thought it was interesting they listed their IT team in the credits. Most companies don’t list them but they’re obviously a part of the team.
Comportment made a lot of sense to me as a native Spanish speaker because behavior is translated as comportamiento here
I knew I've definitely heard a similar word before, thanks!
Omg Kyle is on a career path to become a new Keighley.
Don't insult Kyle like that. He's already way surpassed that scumlord.
Kyle "Sugar Design" Bosman, he has his finger on the comportment of our generation
Crossword Puzzle or Word Search?
Great honk
Yo is this definitely reads Jon Oliver’s younger brother episode. Actual journalist take here hahah
Just wondering if I'm the only Brazilian who watches this channel and got a little surprised to see the Brazilian voice actor in this
I remember when I saw a news youtube channels captions that were much different than what was being said. It was some evil stuff. Very scary. Hidden in the captions.
Solar Search 9/10. Our planet is named Tellus, and not Earth. Corrects my glasses
No spoilers for god of war but a ton of spoilers for popeye's kids meal wordsearch.
Lol. Here's more: dolphin, squid, shark, whale. You're welcome.
Not sure what it says about me that I found ‘sec’ immediately without thinking about it 😭🤣
I had loads of xp points to spend before the end, I didn't bother.
We’re also the Quest Design team 😉
I'm terrible for skipping side quests in games. I almost always get caught up in the main story and end up missing out on a lot.
Ragnarok was an exception. I went out of my way to complete any quests I came across. So I reckon you and the team did a great job. You can consider me invested.
Did the team get any chance to do interviews for the mini-docs that Kyle didn't notice? Noclip had a good one a few years back on the Witcher 3 that I'm sure you're probably aware of. I think there's an appetite for that kind of stuff. It looks like there's probably not a lot of content about the field in general out there yet.
@@thewisefool4049 unfortunately we are not on any of the Behind the Scenes videos, but I'm hoping to put a blog together to talk more about our process. Thanks for playing!
"Player Investment" sounds like one of those nonsense corporate terms they use behind the scenes, similar to "activation".
Thank you for exposéeing this craven conspiracal controversy
Bro that's a word search. Not a crossword
Now this episode is a real thinker.
I love the Bloodworth shirts
btw ea spouse was in 2004. almost nothing has changed to combat crunch culture in the games industry since then.
“Comportment” ahhh yes.
Careful Icarus.
Woah! What the hell. You just spoiled Ian Miller working on Ragnarök as a level designer!!!
Isn't this what we call Nintendo's Logic? When you get to place where you say to yourself: "It'd be great if there was something across this out of the way gap that leads to a platform?" and there is!
"Easiest one is always sex"
-Kyle Bosman
Best timed "Honk" so far
Got me so good
2010 job listing craziness.
Correction: At 13:08 you call it a crossword puzzle when it is actually a word search. How invested are you into this really, Kyle?
for the universe
If you're ever bored of videogames, you can pay a onetime membership fee to WordMint and make all the Search-a-Word and Crossword Puzzles to your heart's delight. The Search-a-Words are even autopopulated with the same letters from the words you're searching. Endless fun for the whole family, so you could print off a bunch of your own and share them with the everyone at Christmas. What an entertaining time!
A great investigation of corporate gobbledygook.
And with that, Popeye's Kid's Meal Bag Solar Search got cancelled. /sadtrombone
I could not find a single planet but I saw sex right away. What does this mean?
"copy pasted from a 2010 Bungie job description" is a good insult for a lot of dumb game stuff because it feels way too reductive to be true in a funny way
Love the skeleton energy