Thanks for watching and let me know if you have any useful information related to the topics in this video. Amazon Affiliate Links to recommended tools used in the video: Milwaukee 3/4" Impact Wrench: amzn.to/3KZpVoc
@Adept Ape I have a 320kva genset with a 3406B with 10,000 hours on it, and under moderate load it would usually go through 8 ish litres of oil every 100 hours running 24 hours a day, but in the recent week it started going through roughly 25 L of oil every 20 hours with less of a load 14 hours a day with no smoke from exhuast, no leaks or puddles of oil, I removed the charge pipe from turbo to intake, just ya typical oil residue nothing wierd, and removed the exhaust side off the turbo with only typical soot build up. ran it without the cap on the oil filler neck which goes straight to the crank case and I can't feel any pressure what so ever on my hand when put my hand on the filler neck.... Any ideas? I'm confused as to where the oil is going. Cheers
worked on a 3406 years ago using 5 ltrs of oil in a 12 hour shift. Eventually found it was a leaking seal in the hydraulic pump sucking the oil out of the sump.
I always carry a piece of plywood on my truck about 2 feet by 3 feet to put on the tracks when working on dozers. You're correct in saying that the tracks are hard to work off of. The plywood helps. Nothing easy about working on dozers.
Actually there are two plugs on the back of the c15 head. One is oil pressure and one is fuel pressure l. I had to go on a service call because a Pete ran out of fuel and couldn’t get it to prime. Wouldn’t prime because the fuel port on the back of the head was plugged. Fuel return line was in the oil pressure port. Luckily it never put oil in the fuel because the oil pressure was lower then the fuel pressure regulator setting
I had no idea extended idle operation on a diesel 3406 would create a vacuum. Always informative and educational thank you. PS I’m not embarrassed to say I stuff a lot of rags in tight areas that I may be prone to drop items into
Very different engines and I'm just an operator, but in locomotives we see excessive idling leading to smoking and oil consumption all the time. Recently had a SD70 (4,300 HP turbo EMD 16-710 engine) that was making lots of blue smoke and throwing oil. The mechanic's fix was to put it on the load box and run it in full throttle for an hour or two. This was made easier by the fact that each locomotive essentially has its own built-in load box (the dynamic braking grid) and you can put them in 'self-load' just by pushing a few buttons.
Yeah the old EMD 2 strokes don't love idling or low load conditions. We have 3x 20-645s at work hooked to generators for the grid and whenever they're used for load pick ups we have to run them at full load (2.5 Mw) for at least 20 minutes after to reduce carbon build up in the engine. For regular peaking power they're supposed to be run at full load only. Even then when they get the air box opened for maintenance every year there are literally chunks of carbon that coat the inside. Nothing beats the sound of a screaming EMD though! 2 Stroke Power!!!
I completely understood everything Mr Smith said. Totally. Cause who doesn’t know what a built in load box is, I certainly do, so do all my friends and family ;)
Great job!! I first heard of you from my good friend, Jeff Anderson!! I am very impressed with your abilities, and look forward to many great things from you!! Thanks, Vic!!!
Man.. I started in 93 working on trucks at a Pete dealership, love cat engines and had a steady diet of cat engine work especially the 3406 A, B, C. I especially enjoyed the fuel pump assembly, and being good at it, and therfore I got a LOT of that work. I'll bet I could teach you some cool things about them. Maybe someday...
My suggestion for working on tracks Josh is talk to your shipping and receiving department. I work for a Komatsu dealer and when we get large windows in they usually protect them with large pieces of foam. About 2’x3’ and 4” thick. They make great knee pads and laying pads for working on uncomfortable places. Not sure if CAT ships anything like that, but if they do a quick chat with the warehouse guy will get you fixed up.
Great video and I just love some of the informed comments on possible cause. This engine will be interesting to get to the bottom of. Thank you as ever Josh.
Actually yes the belly pans are a pain in the backside. However they are there for a reason. There was a D11 working on a garbage dump expansion and it was running without the belly pans and a big stump flipped up under the machine and the stump somehow cleaned the oil pan off the engine. That would have been an expensive day.
There are two different oil seals for valve stems, one is a plastic one that is held by the upper spring retainer the other the one that goes on the guide! The style of valve guide you are showing was designed for the seal being on it! Do not have sis anymore so can not look this up for you! Yes need to check valve guide for your arrangement, to be sure! Use to rebuild lots of cylinder heads back in the day, before exchange took that any for most dealers! The tool for seal install 9U-7226 Installer Gr Model: 3406E Engine
Keep up the good work i enjoy the education i get from your videos especially on the newer stuff as i find my self working on the older engines like the precup engines.
Hi fromthe uk Done a little routine service work on the d8 years ago before they went to the high drive sprockets. Fun fact those head bolts are relatively short back in the 90s rover cars had an all aluminium engine the head bolts extended down into theain bearing cap assembly so head and main bearing bolt they were about 14 inches long we called them knitting neadels Keep up the good work
Since I barely know how to start the diesel engine in my motor home I won't venture a guess as to what is wrong but it will be interesting to see what you find. Keep the good stuff coming.
Cut up stall mats help a lot on tracks, particularly with shorter grousers. Also on treadplate, like kneeling on an excavator platform to work on the engine. A foam kneeling pad goes a loooong way too.
@@jamestaylor1078 I bought a knock off 9amp.. it's a piece of f@#$..can't put a big load on it..but ..but I use when it decides it wants to work 🤣🤣..I've had Milwaukee brand 12 amp that the case completely fell apart....it's all junk I guess
Great video as usual! Humourus and informative at the same time! Great strategy for educating adults. Your opening video of destruction of the week just kills me! I never get tired of seeing it,What is the background on this video Keep up the great work!
I work in a machine shop and occasionally big diesel heads come in. Not all of them have valve seals just guides, but I never find any real wear or anything on them. One thing you could check is if there is a chance the valve seats have a leak behind them which can let oil in. Usually this would suck in coolant (happens on old V8 iron heads), but it may be able to suck in oil if that is the case. Not likely but it's something you could check out. Cracks can show up in odd places too that could let oil get to the intake side.
But every cylinders seems to be the same I guess it would be unlikely that every valve leak in the same way? Could it be out of tolerance valves or valve guides?
Everyone says that it's an old wives tale but I've had several 3406B's that I'd change the oil and put them right on full and in less than a day would be just right above add so I'd top it off every day but decided to see if it'd go below add and it never did, it'd just drink the oil to a certain level and stop using it until around 10,000-12,000 miles and start using it right at the time it was time to change it. My buddy had a 3406B that done the same thing but would go way below add but come to find out it had the wrong dip stick.
I’m just finishing up an in frame overhaul on a D6R with a 3306, wasn’t to bad honestly, I did take the time to unhook the dozer blade frame and cylinders from the machine to give my self room, get your self a good kneeling pad.
On the oil in the fuel. I've had a transfer pump do that. And on the oil consumption, it's probably a reman head, I'm willing to bet that the tolerance on the valve stems are at the maximum.
Josh: About 10 years or so we ran into a similar situation with "black fuel" on a C15. Ended up using Fleetguard Asphaltene treatment - if this is truly fuel, not engine oil, very rare condition up in the Northeast but we have seen it. Not the same deal as black fuel on a C7. Do not really find this conditioner on Fleetguard site, only MSDS form.
I recently had an injector oring go bad on a c15, the middle one. Was turning my return line fuel black. Looked almost like oil. Since I just did my head I was a little stumped thought that head cracked. I did a lot of research and found it is very uncommon and that only one person, supposedly, had experienced said issue. I was just astonished how fast the fuel turned black only from one oring. Changed oring primed all good now. Maybe he has a couple orings leaking? If its not orings on the injector I would make the guess that the head is cracked since there is no other place the oil comes in contact with fuel.
@@Nudnik1 the implication that all Chinese products are junk is incorrect, Chinese manufacturing has the same capabilities that US manufacturing does. Problem is if you want top shelf you pay top shelf prices no matter the origin country and most companies who outsource are not looking for quality which gives the bad reputation.
Some of these problems can really make a guy scratch his head. Was this Dozer showing smoke from the oil it was burning or no? I had a 3306 once in a Gas compressor that was using so much coolant you could see the level dropping. But when you would go looking inside there was zero signs of a coolant leak. It was baffling to say the least. Eventually we had to take a educated guess and replaced the exhaust manifold at a cool 7 Grand. (A liquid cooled manifold). Turns out it was cracked and causing our issue. So we got lucky on our guess. Lol.
Hey Josh, we just had a Mack MP7 (I believe) that was leaking fuel out of the front cover of the engine. Turned out to be a plug on the fuel galley in the block, that was covered by said cover. Thankfully the fuel came out of the top of said cover and didn't go inside. I can only imagine the diagnostic headache that would have created.. Just figured I'd share this one with ya, and maybe it'll help someone who may be pulling out all their hair trying to solve a fuel in oil problem on an older Mack.
Hey I would say it’s the pump the one guy indicated allowing oil into fuel system. The valves do have more oil then I would expect but piston tops don’t show tons of excess oil.
Hi Josh in marine applicatieontwikkeling there are oil shields mounted to the rotocoil to provent oil consumtion and bleu smoking part nr 1376500 (rotorcoil for 3412E 9pw engine)
No minors and majors it looks like, but new rollers, rails, pads, etc. Minors and majors refers to the frames/bogies that hold the bottom rollers. The Majors are the pivot bearings that hold each bogie to the roller frame, and the Minors are the pivots for the smaller mount that holds each bottom roller. So the Minors can rock allowing the rollers to move, then the majors allow that whole assembly to move and bear against large rubber cushion block springs. Makes a massive difference in operator comfort on hard, uneven surfaces, and also allows the track to better conform to the ground for better traction.
I know you don't work on tracks much, but the next time you do throw down a sheet of plywood. It will save your knees and shins. I've lowered a few pans after already installing them to retreive tools. I actually lost my pocket screwdriver in a dozer once that came back about a month later for something else and got my screwdriver back. We've got one of our rental D8Ts that came in with low oil pressure. Found aftermarket bearings in rods and mains. Cam is all scuffed up as are the rollers. Aftermarket oil pump. When the head was pulled, several of the bolts were literally hand tight and a couple pulled the threads out of the block. All but one liner was dusted out. Exhaust manifold nuts were loose and the holes in the head were egg-shaped. At first we thought maybe a customer swung in their trash engine but the s/n on the block is correct. Real head scratcher.
C-15 dumping oil out the fuel return... Never seen it on a Cat but what I have seen is failed injector and/or injector seals cause this on Navistar engines. If I'm not mistaken there is a lot of similarities in the HEUI design between the Cat and Navistar... Maybe something to look at before going to the hassle of removing the cylinder head?
were oil consumption reports given to customer to fill out. this will help verify if there really is a complaint to follow up on before tearing engine apart
Have you checked the turbo for any oil buildup in the exhaust? I've seen many 3400 turbos leak from the shaft into the exhaust from a lot of quick load increase/decrease scenarios, where the load will increase and decrease rapidly
The company I currently work for had me completely repaint their D8R including the mojave brown inside the cab. They had another one of their guys remake the decals for it, too. Save for the rusty tracks, it looks like it just came off the assembly line.
When I used to work for a mobile mechanic company I use to have to crawl under dozers in the sand pits, one time we just finished on a John Deere 1050K and it wouldn’t crank after the new parts the joke was I had a caterpillar hat on
Can you explain further? Why would equipment have a wear problem from seals where cars/semi go hundrds of thousands and millions of miles without issue?
It seems to me that the oil in the fuel return has to be the problem; however, if the engine is burning a mix of oil and diesel there would be other symptoms and problems occurring. As you say - there are no external leaks so the oil has to be leaving through the cylinder. My first guess would have been a leaking turbo seal but you said that was ok.
Excessive low idling with dirty filters. Low idling is really hard on diesels. It causes fuel to condense on the cylinder walls because the cylinder is not hot enough to vaporize the fuel. This allows fuel to build up in the ring grooves of the piston and when it burns it produces carbon in the rings and detonation. The vacuum that is drawing oil into the valve guide is from dirty filters, that's the only restriction in the intake that can produce vacuum. Clean the filters and keep your idle above 1300rpm, better yet, don't idle.
I was thinking excessive stem clearance or light load running / idling as well. Have you thought about someone using the wrong dipstick when it was re manufactured and over filling it? That happens more often than you think on these and is actually part of the cat diagnostic procedure for excessive consumption Another cause is the second ring upside down but since you have wet inlet heads and no turbo leak, im betting bad guides.
I would have assumed it was easier to get in there because of how tall that thing is but when you realize the engine is at the feet of the cab... yup its a real pain in the back.
Had a 416 backhoe with a Perkins engine. Didn't burn any oil in 3 or 4 hours of running. But if they ran it all day it would burn about four quarts. Found a pinched off crankcase breather tube by the oil pan
Josh, when you were instructed to remove the head, do you get briefed on what’s already been checked? Also, does Cat keep track of how the engine is worked, in terms of percent load and idle time? I worked on many brands of construction equipment as a field service tech and some OEM’s have advanced telematics that let you go online and view machine location, codes, percent of run time at light, medium, and full load, as well as idle time. Working on the entire machine makes it harder to be an expert on specific components like engines, but if the intake valves are wet and the crossover pipe is dry, doesn’t that rule out the turbo? Excess idle and light load working conditions cause many regen issues on Tier 4 engines. Maybe they can cause oil consumption issues on Tier 3 engines!?! We look forward to the follow up video.
3406B is a mechanical pump engine. It won’t have all of the sensors and other stuff for tracking what loads it’s ran and when. All it’d have is a basic hours meter.
First I always double check what another mechanic says or thinks the problem is. They may or may not have had the right test equipment available or on their truck to properly diagnose. Ive had to make an Educated guess many times myself and not always right. That looked like an old school 3406 with no ECM? Invest in a borescope instead of using the mirror. Mine was less than a hundred, has fifteen feet of cable with Camera, adjustable LEDs, rechargeable and WiFi's to my phone and tablet. Will pay for itself overtime if you ever have to find a bolt,socket or wrench working on equipment with covers or pans. I to noticed your battery jumping around pretty bad,you might try a big rubber band or two to help secure it to handle. Number one reason in the shop our guys have sent there' Milwaukee's in is for it not holding onto battery anymore especially when using the higher amperage ones. Belly pans are second only to tracks, as being dangerous when working on Dozers I think.
Had a D6M dozer, not sure what CAT motor it was. The governor housing shared a wall with the fuel system. Governor came apart, cracked the housing, allowing the engine to run on its own motor oil as well as leak like that. Couldn’t shut the motor down and had to remove the pre cleaner and cover it to starve the air off, not before it cost a motor. Cat tech said he’d heard of that happening before but had never seen it until then.
Not buying crap knockoff batteries helps immensely, I’ve never once had a battery fall out in years of using them but I have all actual Milwaukee batteries.
I've seen those cats try to draw air like that through the crank case due to restricted air filters. And would also explain all that excessive carbon soot build up already .
As somebody who is not a diesel mechanic or expert, but who has seen many diesel runaway videos. I'm curious what condition the turbo is in? And if that's why it's consuming oil and why intake valves looked wet.
He mentioned when he began working that the turbo and other minor probable causes had been checked and ruled out by field techs. At the 1:15 mark in the video.
Hey Josh thanks for another great video! Being you work at a Cat dealer I’m curious to know why you don’t work on more engines on the equipment side of things? Is there another tech at your location that works primarily on engines in the equipment or is it mostly field service work on equipment engines? Thanks!
pulling the intake off with the head, done this many times. You get a old distributor wrench tool so you can get to them. Once loose pick them up and put rubber bands around them to hold them up. Jake Brake rocker arm bolts are even longer. Belly pans, just hope a Copper Head or another fun snake falls out. Destruction of the week. Oil out the back of the head. They have the fuel return line in the wrong port. I have seen this.
I was waiting for you to chime in John. No venomous snakes up here lol, maybe a moose will fall out. I haven't heard back from the C15 with the oil coming out of the head. That would pump that engine out of oil pretty fast at the rate that sucker is pushing.
@@AdeptApe Lucky for us the one that was wrong, the 75lb regulator was strong enough that if any oil went in the return was not much. The truck had a misfire if I recall. As the air could not vent and the fuel would over heat in the head. Is the valve guides the same part number on a 3406 E head? If so maybe use those valve guide seals. My oil consumption, found pipe on low psi turbo installed wrong and a path for dirt, also as I asked, about long life coolant solidifying causing abrasive wear. Regulator hsg worn in the seat, causing regulators to open crooked, thus the seal was rubbing on the regulator cutting deep grooves. So with fan on, 150 F temp, needs oil carry over canister. If I am lucky it will get hauled out. I dislike cleaning up somebody's diaper. I rather clean up after my self.
Air filter should have been changed. When the primary filter is passed its day it causes a negative pressure that pulls oil past the rings. Pre check and the oil level is down a gallon from yesterday then you swap out the primary and the problem goes away.
Any engine oil making its way into the torque converter or transmission, coolant maybe? Have seen bad rear main seals pump lots of oil into torque converters before. Definitely no oil tracking inside intake ports say from turbo either? Another cool video Josh!
In that it is a turbo engine, the intake manifold should always be under positive pressure whereas the crankcase and valve train "should" be atmospheric, or very slightly lower. Unfortunately the head is now off, but while it was running, did you test whether there was positive pressure in the crankcase/valve-train? Is there anywhere upstream of the valves where oil could be entering, turbo compressor shaft seal?
Is there an oil galley that the injectors run in on a c15. I have seen internaty huei engines do this when you loose an oil galley oring on the injector.
I was wondering if this dozer smokes using oil? We have an old case loader at work and it suddenly started using a huge amount of engine oil, like 6 litres a day, and it doesn’t even get run full time! But its not smoking even a little. So then I was wondering if the oil was somehow getting into another system like the transmission maybe some how, but by now it should be way over full. I suspect it’s burning it and not showing blue smoke. Its also not spattering oil all over it self, so its a bit baffling. Could it really burn that much oil completely and cleanly? I suppose it could, maybe its using the engine oil as fuel and not using as much diesel?? I dunno.
Thanks for watching and let me know if you have any useful information related to the topics in this video. Amazon Affiliate Links to recommended tools used in the video:
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That battery looks like its about to fall apart the hole time haha
Cat makes a bonnet seal for this engine. Look it up.
“I do cars” brought me here.
@Adept Ape I have a 320kva genset with a 3406B with 10,000 hours on it, and under moderate load it would usually go through 8 ish litres of oil every 100 hours running 24 hours a day, but in the recent week it started going through roughly 25 L of oil every 20 hours with less of a load 14 hours a day with no smoke from exhuast, no leaks or puddles of oil, I removed the charge pipe from turbo to intake, just ya typical oil residue nothing wierd, and removed the exhaust side off the turbo with only typical soot build up. ran it without the cap on the oil filler neck which goes straight to the crank case and I can't feel any pressure what so ever on my hand when put my hand on the filler neck.... Any ideas? I'm confused as to where the oil is going. Cheers
worked on a 3406 years ago using 5 ltrs of oil in a 12 hour shift. Eventually found it was a leaking seal in the hydraulic pump sucking the oil out of the sump.
I was wondering if it could be leaking into another system. Fuel, hydraulic, transmission, etc.
Hi mate, got a similarissue but a d4! All turbo side is good wondering if couod be a similar case
I always carry a piece of plywood on my truck about 2 feet by 3 feet to put on the tracks when working on dozers. You're correct in saying that the tracks are hard to work off of. The plywood helps. Nothing easy about working on dozers.
I do the same thing but I screwed a couple of pieces of 2x4 underneath to keep the plywood from sliding around.
Your videos are so informative you are a natural teacher,you help me expand my knowledge as I'm in a similar industry..thanks again mate
I have seen and dealt with that issue of oil getting inside the fuel on a C15. It was as a result of the transfer pumps oil seal failing.
Really? I guess if the seal goes bad on the suction side it could pull oil from the engine and mix it with the fuel. Makes sense.
Yep, c32s, c27s, c18s and c15s are famous for this
@@CryptoMechanic310 HEUI 3408 and 3412 versions can also have internal injector failure foul the fuel with oil.
Actually there are two plugs on the back of the c15 head. One is oil pressure and one is fuel pressure l. I had to go on a service call because a Pete ran out of fuel and couldn’t get it to prime. Wouldn’t prime because the fuel port on the back of the head was plugged. Fuel return line was in the oil pressure port. Luckily it never put oil in the fuel because the oil pressure was lower then the fuel pressure regulator setting
Usually you'll see the fuel in the tank looks black, ...
I had no idea extended idle operation on a diesel 3406 would create a vacuum. Always informative and educational thank you. PS I’m not embarrassed to say I stuff a lot of rags in tight areas that I may be prone to drop items into
It should not create a vacuum since the 3406 does not have a throttle valve in the intake.
I’m no mechanic but a C12 owner in a kenworth, we fix our own gear as much as possible and find here a great bunch of people and idea’s
Holt guy here. Check for plugged crankcase breather tube. Pressurizing crankcase. Lots of mud in the belly pan can do that.
Very different engines and I'm just an operator, but in locomotives we see excessive idling leading to smoking and oil consumption all the time. Recently had a SD70 (4,300 HP turbo EMD 16-710 engine) that was making lots of blue smoke and throwing oil. The mechanic's fix was to put it on the load box and run it in full throttle for an hour or two. This was made easier by the fact that each locomotive essentially has its own built-in load box (the dynamic braking grid) and you can put them in 'self-load' just by pushing a few buttons.
Yeah the old EMD 2 strokes don't love idling or low load conditions. We have 3x 20-645s at work hooked to generators for the grid and whenever they're used for load pick ups we have to run them at full load (2.5 Mw) for at least 20 minutes after to reduce carbon build up in the engine. For regular peaking power they're supposed to be run at full load only. Even then when they get the air box opened for maintenance every year there are literally chunks of carbon that coat the inside. Nothing beats the sound of a screaming EMD though! 2 Stroke Power!!!
I completely understood everything Mr Smith said. Totally.
Cause who doesn’t know what a built in load box is, I certainly do, so do all my friends and family ;)
Just to be honest, I’m crazy jealous of you train jockeys. I can’t imagine how cool it is to work with the engines that move the world
I worked for a construction company. They had a D8N and those belly pans were always fun to take off and put back on
That would Be my assistant first job period. Lol they learn then earn
Great job!! I first heard of you from my good friend, Jeff Anderson!! I am very impressed with your abilities, and look forward to many great things from you!! Thanks, Vic!!!
Love that you don't have to hold a camera with one hand. Fun realistic experience.
Man.. I started in 93 working on trucks at a Pete dealership, love cat engines and had a steady diet of cat engine work especially the 3406 A, B, C.
I especially enjoyed the fuel pump assembly, and being good at it, and therfore I got a LOT of that work.
I'll bet I could teach you some cool things about them.
Maybe someday...
My suggestion for working on tracks Josh is talk to your shipping and receiving department. I work for a Komatsu dealer and when we get large windows in they usually protect them with large pieces of foam. About 2’x3’ and 4” thick. They make great knee pads and laying pads for working on uncomfortable places. Not sure if CAT ships anything like that, but if they do a quick chat with the warehouse guy will get you fixed up.
2x2 drilled Into the bottom of a sheet of plywood works good, hook it into the grouzer and ur set
Great video and I just love some of the informed comments on possible cause. This engine will be interesting to get to the bottom of. Thank you as ever Josh.
awesome as always, i really appreciate everyone who makes these kinds of videos. the camera angles are great.
Actually yes the belly pans are a pain in the backside. However they are there for a reason. There was a D11 working on a garbage dump expansion and it was running without the belly pans and a big stump flipped up under the machine and the stump somehow cleaned the oil pan off the engine. That would have been an expensive day.
There are two different oil seals for valve stems, one is a plastic one that is held by the upper spring retainer the other the one that goes on the guide! The style of valve guide you are showing was designed for the seal being on it! Do not have sis anymore so can not look this up for you! Yes need to check valve guide for your arrangement, to be sure! Use to rebuild lots of cylinder heads back in the day, before exchange took that any for most dealers! The tool for seal install 9U-7226 Installer Gr
Model: 3406E Engine
That destruction of the week was perplexing. I think that deserves an update if you ever got one 😂 THOSE BELLY PANS ARE INSANE!!!
Keep up the good work i enjoy the education i get from your videos especially on the newer stuff as i find my self working on the older engines like the precup engines.
Argh! I need closure! Good video as always. Thanks Josh
Those belly pans are fun to put back by ur self in the field
Hi fromthe uk
Done a little routine service work on the d8 years ago before they went to the high drive sprockets. Fun fact those head bolts are relatively short back in the 90s rover cars had an all aluminium engine the head bolts extended down into theain bearing cap assembly so head and main bearing bolt they were about 14 inches long we called them knitting neadels
Keep up the good work
In 1977, I operated a D8. Pulling a disc with 20 propane cylinders drying the soil. The soil was very soft and dry. No shoes, no shirt. #NoProblem
Since I barely know how to start the diesel engine in my motor home I won't venture a guess as to what is wrong but it will be interesting to see what you find. Keep the good stuff coming.
Cut up stall mats help a lot on tracks, particularly with shorter grousers. Also on treadplate, like kneeling on an excavator platform to work on the engine. A foam kneeling pad goes a loooong way too.
Holy crap that battery moves around a lot when the 3/4 M18 gun hammers!
They are designed to do that to prevent damage.
I saw DAYLIGHT in between the gun and the battery's mating surfaces ! That thing shook violently. 😬
It's a cheap knockoff battery. But if you slow down the video it looks like the battery case is separating on the front.
Generic battery most likely he knows battery is on its way out and is going to use it until it dies.
@@jamestaylor1078 I bought a knock off 9amp.. it's a piece of f@#$..can't put a big load on it..but ..but I use when it decides it wants to work 🤣🤣..I've had Milwaukee brand 12 amp that the case completely fell apart....it's all junk I guess
Great video as usual! Humourus and informative at the same time! Great strategy for educating adults. Your opening video of destruction of the week just kills me! I never get tired of seeing it,What is the background on this video Keep up the great work!
I would do valve stem seals. Love your work mate😊
I work in a machine shop and occasionally big diesel heads come in. Not all of them have valve seals just guides, but I never find any real wear or anything on them. One thing you could check is if there is a chance the valve seats have a leak behind them which can let oil in. Usually this would suck in coolant (happens on old V8 iron heads), but it may be able to suck in oil if that is the case. Not likely but it's something you could check out. Cracks can show up in odd places too that could let oil get to the intake side.
But every cylinders seems to be the same I guess it would be unlikely that every valve leak in the same way? Could it be out of tolerance valves or valve guides?
Hope you figure it out. Be safe Sir.
Everyone says that it's an old wives tale but I've had several 3406B's that I'd change the oil and put them right on full and in less than a day would be just right above add so I'd top it off every day but decided to see if it'd go below add and it never did, it'd just drink the oil to a certain level and stop using it until around 10,000-12,000 miles and start using it right at the time it was time to change it. My buddy had a 3406B that done the same thing but would go way below add but come to find out it had the wrong dip stick.
I enjoy your videos. Lots of great info!!!
I’m just finishing up an in frame overhaul on a D6R with a 3306, wasn’t to bad honestly, I did take the time to unhook the dozer blade frame and cylinders from the machine to give my self room, get your self a good kneeling pad.
On the oil in the fuel. I've had a transfer pump do that. And on the oil consumption, it's probably a reman head, I'm willing to bet that the tolerance on the valve stems are at the maximum.
Leaking rear main seal can send engine oil into the torque converter/power train sump.
What I was thinking also... I didn't hear him say if the engine was smoking or not. No smoke, no leak, Trans Making oil... rear main.
Ha, delt with that on a D7 years ago. Hopefully the field tech checked that first!
Yaa. That's possible
Josh: About 10 years or so we ran into a similar situation with "black fuel" on a C15. Ended up using Fleetguard Asphaltene treatment - if this is truly fuel, not engine oil, very rare condition up in the Northeast but we have seen it. Not the same deal as black fuel on a C7. Do not really find this conditioner on Fleetguard site, only MSDS form.
I recently had an injector oring go bad on a c15, the middle one. Was turning my return line fuel black. Looked almost like oil. Since I just did my head I was a little stumped thought that head cracked. I did a lot of research and found it is very uncommon and that only one person, supposedly, had experienced said issue. I was just astonished how fast the fuel turned black only from one oring. Changed oring primed all good now. Maybe he has a couple orings leaking? If its not orings on the injector I would make the guess that the head is cracked since there is no other place the oil comes in contact with fuel.
Middle o-ring fails from injector seat area leaking causing compression/soot in fuel. New head or machine the seats is the fix.
Let’s go I love these videos keep up the content
I'm a heavy equipment mechanic for Komatsu and that is way I don't use Snap -on sockets @6:35 !
That is a pretty good reason actually with a high possibility of losing one.
Because CAT uses Chinese bolts and hardware
@@Nudnik1 the implication that all Chinese products are junk is incorrect, Chinese manufacturing has the same capabilities that US manufacturing does. Problem is if you want top shelf you pay top shelf prices no matter the origin country and most companies who outsource are not looking for quality which gives the bad reputation.
The fuel return line is hooked to the oil gallery at back of head. There are two plugs swap plug and line to correct.
That is a pretty good idea, I'm not sure if he did any recent work on the back of the head.
If that were the case wouldn't you be putting fuel in the oil not the other way around??
Tell them to make sure the engine is warm before hard work begins. Beautiful stars on top of the pistons.
Some of these problems can really make a guy scratch his head. Was this Dozer showing smoke from the oil it was burning or no? I had a 3306 once in a Gas compressor that was using so much coolant you could see the level dropping. But when you would go looking inside there was zero signs of a coolant leak. It was baffling to say the least. Eventually we had to take a educated guess and replaced the exhaust manifold at a cool 7 Grand. (A liquid cooled manifold). Turns out it was cracked and causing our issue. So we got lucky on our guess. Lol.
When you work on top of steel tracks a chunk of 2x12 makes it much easier to walk and kneel
Hey Josh, we just had a Mack MP7 (I believe) that was leaking fuel out of the front cover of the engine. Turned out to be a plug on the fuel galley in the block, that was covered by said cover. Thankfully the fuel came out of the top of said cover and didn't go inside. I can only imagine the diagnostic headache that would have created.. Just figured I'd share this one with ya, and maybe it'll help someone who may be pulling out all their hair trying to solve a fuel in oil problem on an older Mack.
Nothing to do with CAT 🤦♂️
Hey I would say it’s the pump the one guy indicated allowing oil into fuel system. The valves do have more oil then I would expect but piston tops don’t show tons of excess oil.
Lay a piece of ply wood on the tracks it makes a very comfortable surface to stand or Neel on
Hi Josh in marine applicatieontwikkeling there are oil shields mounted to the rotocoil to provent oil consumtion and bleu smoking part nr 1376500 (rotorcoil for 3412E 9pw engine)
No minors and majors it looks like, but new rollers, rails, pads, etc.
Minors and majors refers to the frames/bogies that hold the bottom rollers. The Majors are the pivot bearings that hold each bogie to the roller frame, and the Minors are the pivots for the smaller mount that holds each bottom roller. So the Minors can rock allowing the rollers to move, then the majors allow that whole assembly to move and bear against large rubber cushion block springs.
Makes a massive difference in operator comfort on hard, uneven surfaces, and also allows the track to better conform to the ground for better traction.
I'm excited to see more. 🙂🙂
Thats a nice problem you have got yourself there 😮👍👍
I know you don't work on tracks much, but the next time you do throw down a sheet of plywood. It will save your knees and shins. I've lowered a few pans after already installing them to retreive tools. I actually lost my pocket screwdriver in a dozer once that came back about a month later for something else and got my screwdriver back.
We've got one of our rental D8Ts that came in with low oil pressure. Found aftermarket bearings in rods and mains. Cam is all scuffed up as are the rollers. Aftermarket oil pump. When the head was pulled, several of the bolts were literally hand tight and a couple pulled the threads out of the block. All but one liner was dusted out. Exhaust manifold nuts were loose and the holes in the head were egg-shaped. At first we thought maybe a customer swung in their trash engine but the s/n on the block is correct. Real head scratcher.
Maybe the customer was smarter, and wanted oem parts at aftermarket prices, and doesn't mind doing the job twice.
Great video as always Josh !!! I learn something from everyone of your videos.
Thanks 👍
C-15 dumping oil out the fuel return... Never seen it on a Cat but what I have seen is failed injector and/or injector seals cause this on Navistar engines. If I'm not mistaken there is a lot of similarities in the HEUI design between the Cat and Navistar... Maybe something to look at before going to the hassle of removing the cylinder head?
That was my initial response to the engine owner and thought he had a C7 HEUI, but then he said he had C15 and sent a video of it.
Heui POS motors
were oil consumption reports given to customer to fill out. this will help verify if there really is a complaint to follow up on before tearing engine apart
Heck yeah more Cummins content 👊🏻💪🏻🤦🏻♂️
Have you checked the turbo for any oil buildup in the exhaust? I've seen many 3400 turbos leak from the shaft into the exhaust from a lot of quick load increase/decrease scenarios, where the load will increase and decrease rapidly
The company I currently work for had me completely repaint their D8R including the mojave brown inside the cab. They had another one of their guys remake the decals for it, too. Save for the rusty tracks, it looks like it just came off the assembly line.
When I used to work for a mobile mechanic company I use to have to crawl under dozers in the sand pits, one time we just finished on a John Deere 1050K and it wouldn’t crank after the new parts the joke was I had a caterpillar hat on
You can install valve seals but the valve stems and guides will wear quicker.
Can you explain further? Why would equipment have a wear problem from seals where cars/semi go hundrds of thousands and millions of miles without issue?
It seems to me that the oil in the fuel return has to be the problem; however, if the engine is burning a mix of oil and diesel there would be other symptoms and problems occurring. As you say - there are no external leaks so the oil has to be leaving through the cylinder. My first guess would have been a leaking turbo seal but you said that was ok.
Thanks for you enjoyable content!
Thank you for watching.
i would love to know more about 1693 truck engines and why the old timers loved them.
Excessive low idling with dirty filters. Low idling is really hard on diesels. It causes fuel to condense on the cylinder walls because the cylinder is not hot enough to vaporize the fuel. This allows fuel to build up in the ring grooves of the piston and when it burns it produces carbon in the rings and detonation. The vacuum that is drawing oil into the valve guide is from dirty filters, that's the only restriction in the intake that can produce vacuum.
Clean the filters and keep your idle above 1300rpm, better yet, don't idle.
Definitely a interesting video AA
I was thinking excessive stem clearance or light load running / idling as well.
Have you thought about someone using the wrong dipstick when it was re manufactured and over filling it? That happens more often than you think on these and is actually part of the cat diagnostic procedure for excessive consumption
Another cause is the second ring upside down but since you have wet inlet heads and no turbo leak, im betting bad guides.
I would have assumed it was easier to get in there because of how tall that thing is but when you realize the engine is at the feet of the cab... yup its a real pain in the back.
Don't miss pulling the belly pans every yr to clean them out , the tracks are hard on knees, get some window packing foam
Love ya work lad.
Had a 416 backhoe with a Perkins engine. Didn't burn any oil in 3 or 4 hours of running. But if they ran it all day it would burn about four quarts. Found a pinched off crankcase breather tube by the oil pan
Josh, when you were instructed to remove the head, do you get briefed on what’s already been checked? Also, does Cat keep track of how the engine is worked, in terms of percent load and idle time?
I worked on many brands of construction equipment as a field service tech and some OEM’s have advanced telematics that let you go online and view machine location, codes, percent of run time at light, medium, and full load, as well as idle time.
Working on the entire machine makes it harder to be an expert on specific components like engines, but if the intake valves are wet and the crossover pipe is dry, doesn’t that rule out the turbo? Excess idle and light load working conditions cause many regen issues on Tier 4 engines. Maybe they can cause oil consumption issues on Tier 3 engines!?!
We look forward to the follow up video.
3406B is a mechanical pump engine. It won’t have all of the sensors and other stuff for tracking what loads it’s ran and when. All it’d have is a basic hours meter.
First I always double check what another mechanic says or thinks the problem is. They may or may not have had the right test equipment available or on their truck to properly diagnose. Ive had to make an Educated guess many times myself and not always right. That looked like an old school 3406 with no ECM?
Invest in a borescope instead of using the mirror. Mine was less than a hundred, has fifteen feet of cable with Camera, adjustable LEDs, rechargeable and WiFi's to my phone and tablet.
Will pay for itself overtime if you ever have to find a bolt,socket or wrench working on equipment with covers or pans.
I to noticed your battery jumping around pretty bad,you might try a big rubber band or two to help secure it to handle.
Number one reason in the shop our guys have sent there' Milwaukee's in is for it not holding onto battery anymore especially when using the higher amperage ones.
Belly pans are second only to tracks, as being dangerous when working on Dozers I think.
I like the rubber band idea.
Last time i seen oil in the fuel tank was on ih 466e the injectors were the problem.
Had a D6M dozer, not sure what CAT motor it was. The governor housing shared a wall with the fuel system. Governor came apart, cracked the housing, allowing the engine to run on its own motor oil as well as leak like that. Couldn’t shut the motor down and had to remove the pre cleaner and cover it to starve the air off, not before it cost a motor. Cat tech said he’d heard of that happening before but had never seen it until then.
You did mention which of the valves that have oil deposits.
A 2x2 ft square of a 4 inch thick mattress topper or foam padding will help with those new pads not tearing up your knees while you work on it
Yep my knees hurt just thinking about kneeling on those tracks
Check the air filtration system for collapsing components
I don’t have any Milwaukee stuff but I can see how/why batteries fall out now
It's specially bad on the M12 tools. I own a few. I zip-tie all the batteries I can to the tool given the chance.
Not buying crap knockoff batteries helps immensely, I’ve never once had a battery fall out in years of using them but I have all actual Milwaukee batteries.
I've seen those cats try to draw air like that through the crank case due to restricted air filters. And would also explain all that excessive carbon soot build up already .
I had a 15l v8 engine that did the same. Dirty air filter and intake to filter housing took knock. Turbo sucks oil past turbo seal.
Great video and thank you for your email response it is a alot of help
I usually lay cardboard over the tracks. Makes it more comfy.
As somebody who is not a diesel mechanic or expert, but who has seen many diesel runaway videos. I'm curious what condition the turbo is in? And if that's why it's consuming oil and why intake valves looked wet.
He mentioned when he began working that the turbo and other minor probable causes had been checked and ruled out by field techs. At the 1:15 mark in the video.
I find it amazing no valve seals..
Hey Josh thanks for another great video! Being you work at a Cat dealer I’m curious to know why you don’t work on more engines on the equipment side of things? Is there another tech at your location that works primarily on engines in the equipment or is it mostly field service work on equipment engines? Thanks!
pulling the intake off with the head, done this many times. You get a old distributor wrench tool so you can get to them. Once loose pick them up and put rubber bands around them to hold them up. Jake Brake rocker arm bolts are even longer.
Belly pans, just hope a Copper Head or another fun snake falls out.
Destruction of the week. Oil out the back of the head. They have the fuel return line in the wrong port. I have seen this.
I was waiting for you to chime in John. No venomous snakes up here lol, maybe a moose will fall out. I haven't heard back from the C15 with the oil coming out of the head. That would pump that engine out of oil pretty fast at the rate that sucker is pushing.
@@AdeptApe Lucky for us the one that was wrong, the 75lb regulator was strong enough that if any oil went in the return was not much. The truck had a misfire if I recall. As the air could not vent and the fuel would over heat in the head. Is the valve guides the same part number on a 3406 E head? If so maybe use those valve guide seals.
My oil consumption, found pipe on low psi turbo installed wrong and a path for dirt, also as I asked, about long life coolant solidifying causing abrasive wear. Regulator hsg worn in the seat, causing regulators to open crooked, thus the seal was rubbing on the regulator cutting deep grooves. So with fan on, 150 F temp, needs oil carry over canister.
If I am lucky it will get hauled out. I dislike cleaning up somebody's diaper. I rather clean up after my self.
Nice video, keep it up sir
Suction side oil seal on transfer pump would be my guess
Air filter should have been changed. When the primary filter is passed its day it causes a negative pressure that pulls oil past the rings. Pre check and the oil level is down a gallon from yesterday then you swap out the primary and the problem goes away.
ape u need to strap the battery ,when it vibrating like that , it damaged the battery feel quick
C -18 cats burn a Crap ton also!! Like a gallon every 15 hours. That’s with zero leaks. And every one I know in our industry has the same problem .
Some cat engines had coolant to fuel coolers ‘heaters.’ Does this industrial engine have any weirdo heat exchangers?
Any engine oil making its way into the torque converter or transmission, coolant maybe? Have seen bad rear main seals pump lots of oil into torque converters before. Definitely no oil tracking inside intake ports say from turbo either? Another cool video Josh!
Commenting on the video for the algorithm
like my k24. down 1 qt after 3k miles like clockwork. no clogged cats 28mpg. 100k miles driven
In that it is a turbo engine, the intake manifold should always be under positive pressure whereas the crankcase and valve train "should" be atmospheric, or very slightly lower. Unfortunately the head is now off, but while it was running, did you test whether there was positive pressure in the crankcase/valve-train? Is there anywhere upstream of the valves where oil could be entering, turbo compressor shaft seal?
Is there an oil galley that the injectors run in on a c15. I have seen internaty huei engines do this when you loose an oil galley oring on the injector.
I was wondering if this dozer smokes using oil? We have an old case loader at work and it suddenly started using a huge amount of engine oil, like 6 litres a day, and it doesn’t even get run full time! But its not smoking even a little. So then I was wondering if the oil was somehow getting into another system like the transmission maybe some how, but by now it should be way over full. I suspect it’s burning it and not showing blue smoke. Its also not spattering oil all over it self, so its a bit baffling. Could it really burn that much oil completely and cleanly? I suppose it could, maybe its using the engine oil as fuel and not using as much diesel?? I dunno.
Lots of people hose clamp their battery on their big Milwaukee Tools so it doesn't break the tool in fall off
What does the oil sos report said? Do it has oil dilution... ? Because this engine has fuel pump lubricants by engine oil..