Gifting a card to fog during a boardwipe is really a non-issue imo, you just gift it to the player that’s set back the most. I’m still not sold on Dawn’s Truce but I don’t buy that ‘gift a card’ is a huge downside in this case.
I've found that gifting a card is not as bad as most people have said it is. As you said, just give it to the weakest player. Most of the time, it doesn't make an impact, and at least you are helping the weakest player with a card so that they can hopefully come back a little bit and have some fun
I think it can be a political positive in some cases, too. Being the only player that isn't affected by a board wipe gets you a lot of unwanted attention. Somebody, who got a card from you is less inclined to target you, if you play your cards right. One card does more psychologically than it does in reality in a format, where people draw 3-5 cards per turn easily
The negativity towards giving cards to opponents comes from a competitive 1v1 mindset. In multiplayer giving cards to other players doesn't translate to you losing necessarily and sometimes can even help you win.
Gifting a card is an upside as far as I'm concerned, the number of situations where it's not strictly beneficial towards you is minor at best. I've been playing commander for over 10 years, and there is usually a player who helping actually helps you, either because someone is weak, someone is massively ahead, someone has a poor match up into you or you just want to make them like you more. Worst case scenario Dawn's Truce is a sidegrade to Heroic Intervention, trading guaranteed indestructible for you getting hexproof and best case scenario it's just a better Heroic Intervention. I rate the gift cards very highly, with Dawn's Truce, Dewdrop Cure, Into the Flood Maw, Parting Gust, Peerless Recycling, Perch Protection, Starfall Invocation and Wear Down all preforming extremely well in the game's I've been playing post Bloomburrow.
Completely agree. Your options when using Truce are “lose my board with everyone else *or* retain my entire board and give the opponent least able to hinder me/most able to help me one card in a singleton format where people are drawing cards all the time.” Which is to say the downside simply does not move the needle statistically, and in terms of raw advantage generated with it, you’re so asset-positive in that exchange that it doesn’t matter. It’s like saying you shouldn’t use Chaos Warp because the opponent can hit something off the top. They can, but it’s almost always a better alternative to whatever was about to happen. Same with Arcane Denial. People overestimate these kinds of resource exchanges IMO, it’s like how MTG Goldfish completely dismiss single target removal because it’s a net negative while ignoring the fact that you properly use single target removal when your alternative is to just lose.
"Infernal Grasp is half the--" But Fell the Profane is also a land that enters untapped. "If I'm spending 4 mana, I'd prefer it to be--" But Fell the Profane is also a land that enters untapped. 'As a removal spell, it's--" Also a land that enters untapped.
Yeah I think their take on the mdfc lands from mh3 is just bad. I run pretty much every one I can jn most decks. Even the tapped dual lands, they're just such a low opportunity cost in literally every single deck. I would give anything for 1 more removal spell
I dont get the appeal of these cards the couple I run in decks I run for the spell side only and one of them i can play as a land from the grave which is relevant in the deck it's in.
@@cread13 mdfc lands let you either: run more lands but still get more value than a land that simply produces mana by virtue of being half spell. Or run more nonland cards but still be able to get the mana you need by virtue of the mdfc cards also being lands
I partially disagree with you. If you're using it more often as a land drop, then Fell the Profane is better, but if it's more often a removal spell for you then Hagra Mauling is the better option. The only way I can think to tell which is better in a specific deck is to play that deck enough to know whether it's a land or spell more. It can very well be that in your instance, it's a land drop more often and that makes Fell to Profane better for your decks. I prefer Hagra Mauling myself because I play decks that care more about lasting to the late game and casting multiple spells, so I'm okay with playing a tapped land early on in the game and getting it back with a bounce land then casting it, so the 1 mana saved late game is better in my instance than 1 extra mana on turn 2 or 3.
@@chasm9557 thats the idea. its a land first and a spell second when you arent seeing your "real" interaction. a 4 mana kill spell late game. a land that doesnt get in your way in the early game. if you never have to use it, thats the dream. that means you stayed so on rails that you never needed it. but its objectively wrong to build like youre always living the dream.
Fell the Profane and Sink Into Stupor are crazy good cards. Nothing is more important than hitting your lands drops. These are impactful spells on cards that can be played as lands. These propel your deck to the point where the deck can function if drawn early and they have impact on the game if drawn late. That’s the definition of a powerful card.
the best MDFCs imo are Fell the profane, Sink into Stupor, Boggart Trawler, Witch Enchanter, and Sea Gate Restoration. 4 of these are really good in the mid game as interactive spells when you need them and the last one is capable of drawing loads of cards late. and in decks with only a few colors they can be basically free
@@jmanwild87 Sundering Eruption also belongs on the list, it's a great finisher, a great land hate piece and a land drop in one, which really can't be beat.
Don't disagree with anything said here. The bar for MDFCs to be playable is low. The bar for MDFC lands that come into play untapped is even lower. Agadeem's Awakening and Turntimber Symbiosis are two more that are very powerful. Turntimber Symbiosis gets way less love than it deserves.
The amount of times I have thought to myself “I’d win this game except I don’t want to give my opponent 1 card draw” has been exactly zero. I love Dawn’s Truce so much. It’s Heroic Intervention that also says “you have hexproof”. It saves you from being targeted also! Such a good card for 2 mana. Who cares about giving someone a card draw at that point. For all we know they could draw a land. “You and permanents you control gain hexproof.” So good
In regard to Springheart Nantuko, you are going to typically play it and a land in the same turn. It is basically 2GG for a clone in green and you get +1/+1 on a creature and any enchantress triggers. Then for future landfall triggers, you get extra clones. Is it broken or better than scute swarm. No. Is it reasonably good ? Yes. I don’t see why an enchantress or landfall deck wouldn’t run it and for any deck running mana dorks like sanctum weaver, it fuels itself.
Yeah, I have a few decks that arn't landfall decks, but can still play more than one land a turn. Those decks also have creatures with backbreaking ETBs, or attacks triggers. If you can make multiple of clones of them a turn, and still have a lot of mana left over, you're not going to lose.
Springheart Nantuko does the thing that commander players play the game for. When you have a ton of mana and powerful creatures on board, it gives you a place to dump your ton of mana and make copies of the enormous things. That’s what many people who play the format are chasing.
Cool list guys, something that everyone missed about Fell the Profane is that it's an UNTAPPED land on the back. You only have to pay 3 life to put it into play with no tempo loss. That basically makes it a free card to play in mono or 2 colored decks. Sure it's overcosted for the destroy effect, but besides the life loss and the inability to land tutor it, there's no downside. Though on the tutor front, you can tutor it with solve the equation effects if you need a land, so there's extra utility.
There was a lot of failing to read this episode I think, like them completely glossing over the fact that Springheart has bestow and thats how most people use the card
Matt are you serious???? Springheart Nantuko is the only way Mono Green can make enough mana with Nyxbloom Ancient to crash the Arena server. So many green cards it combos with that place a land on entry such as Primeval Titan, Topiary Smasher or even a humble clifftop Lookout can easily fetch every land in your deck in a single turn if you have spelunking out. It goes crazy with “# of creatures/elves” mana dorks too. It’s easily one of my favorite green cards early game or late game I’m always excited to see it in my hand.
Yeah I don't think Dana or Matt have ever actually read that card because the both kept talking about the insect token part and not the fact you can bestow it and make copies of one of your creatures.
This card has been an all star everytime I play my Titania Landfall deck, where I get lands to tap for 2, and then animate a land via Aleysha or other means, and then it goes infinite with landfalls. Not to mention its just good in general in any landfall decks, which is a lot of decks
Springheat Nantuko is a Roaming Throne in any commander deck with a nice ETB. Ok, it costs you two mana each turn, but 2 mana to get your commander's ETB is a pretty great rate. Plus its in a colour where you can't normally get effects to repeat/double those sort of triggers easily. AND its a quid fifty not 20.
Springheart Nantuko take is wild. I think the card should be played more. I even ran it out not bestowed a couple of games because I had skull clamp in my hand. Stick it on a e wit or tireless tracker or a wood elves or fecund greenshell and just get so much value. Also not counting the token shenanigans that can be done after you secure a token of something.
I think the standard mode for it is to play it "unbestowed". It's the cheapest landfall - "make a guy" card around for 2 mana. That "unbestowed" mode is AT LEAST as important as the bestowed mode. But yeah, I can also bestow a lotus cobra or tireless provisioner and basically combo out in the same turn, if I have any landfall enablers out (ramunap, azusa, crucible etc.)
I’m really fond of Bestowing Railway Brawler in my Bristly Bill deck. A couple RBs will give you a murderous base of counters for BB to double and wrap up.
Fell the Profane is a card I have never once been sad to see. It's never dead. Need land? Got it. Need a kill spell? Got it. Absolute banger 100% of the time, I will not hear otherwise
The fact that the mauling land always enters tapped is a big deal. That's a tempo hit that may prevent you from casting things on curve. You can swap a swamp out for a fell in any commander deck and that deck gets more powerful. Not the case for the mauling because of the tempo hit.
Springheart Nantuko is a bit of a false friend. Despite having Landfall it is far better in Big Decks. Having 1 card that you can play on a big bungus that turns all draws in your deck live. Bestow it on a Dragon, play cultivate, make 2 copies of the Dragon is huge, Landfall Decks inherently dont have the issue that the Nantuko solves
I’ve found a lot of success with Springheart with Sythis. It’s an enchantment that comes down to copy your other enchantress that draws cards and you have plenty of lands from the draw in enchantress so you don’t need to be strictly landfall or insect
My experience with springheart Nantuko in recent games has been an early reanimated ancient silver dragon, with a bestowed nantuko and ramp spell in the same turn. Maybe I got lucky but I’ve had it work for my more than not.
36:37 it wasnt the cost of creatures revived that made recurring nightmare good, it was the fact that on resolution your opponent couldnt respond to it, making it only susceptible to counterspell. The new nightmare has an ETB trigger which allows people to actually disrupt the combo with bounce or destroy effects
I think Tree Three City shines not necessarily in tribal decks, but in decks, where your commander is guaranteed to make a bunch of tokens on ETB/LTB/activation to make sure it's gonna be mana positive every time. Something like Ghalta and Mavren, Prossh or Xyris.
My issue with the card is that in a lot of tribal decks, the moment it creates a ton of mana is the moment you're already winning and... what are you actually doing with that extra mana? I CAN construct a couple scenarios where it helps casting big stuff, like having 6+ squirrels out and being able to comfortably play preposterous proportions for 7 mana but a lot of the time, if you have a bunch of creatures of one type out, you're already exploding and having MORE mana doesn't do much for you? People say there's a low opportunity cost, but I consider colorless mana an opportunity cost because I'm only willing to play a couple of colorless lands in any given 3+ color deck. So I think I like your idea where it's kind of super reliable in decks like Prossh and co., where you're basically guaranteed to produce a ton of mana after playing your commander.
Or hare apparents! You can play another round which is XX2W to blink any amount of creatures + X times and you can make more mana from the tokens for another mana sink next turn!
@@paulszki im casting a craterhoof type effect without wasting the elf bodies i need to actually attack with. also its a land. at worse im just tapping it for 1. its not eating my deckslots.
@@SeriosSkies92 super valid points, and if you have it, play it. But I'm not spending 20+ bucks on this card for an effect that is going to be marginally good in a lot of kindred decks. Some youtubers were touting it as "if you play any kindred deck, this needs to go in." No, it does not, in fact, go into 5 color dragons because a.) at the time this becomes mana positive, I'm winning the game because I got to untap with four dragons in play, and also it's 5 colors and colorless lands have no business in 5 colors. If I had ten copies of three tree city, would I jam it in monoblack zombies, or krenko or blue black fearies or elves? Sure I would, as you said, it's a low deckbuilding cost. But in 3+ color commander dekcs, a colorless land is starting to be a bit sus, especially if it has to compete with a ton of other really great utility lands. With a lot of tribes, it really depends on how many you can consistently put on the board. And then, when you ARE that point, what does that extra mana actually do for you? Depends on the deck, some decks can make good use of it, other decks... I don't know, Beastmaster Ascension exists and is like 3 mana. And craterhoof is nice and all, but not every deck is green and a lot of them might jsut play Banner of Kinship for 5. You don't need Three-Tree-City to cast 5 mana-spells. Again, it's far from being a bad card, but it is also simply a bit overrated, as reflected by the price. But that price has also been dropping. I'd gladly pick up a couple if copies, if it were around 5 bucks, which is still a ton of money for one magic card.
@Suhrvivor it's also a land on the back that basically always enters untapped in commander. You trade raw efficiency for more consistent mana whether that be "I get to run more nonland cards because some of the Nonlands can be lands" or "i can run more lands without running out of gas as often. Getting very consistent mana while also having some of my lands be spells if i need it." Either way MDFCs are fantastic when you don't necessarily need every spell you play to be As efficient as possible
@@yavivanov6650 No, you don't need a mediocre removal attached to a land in the current state of the game, if you build your deck right you'll never run out of gas and you'll never need bad removals in your land slots.
@@Suhrvivor people who play competitive magic regularly say that commander players often run too few lands and even if you are running the correct amount of lands for your deck the opportunity cost of playing Fell the Profane over a Basic swamp is minimal in most games of commander
In defense of Lost Jitte in Alexios decks, Lost Jitte triggers off of Alexios dealing damage while under other players' control, but since you still control the Jitte, those players do not benefit from the equipment. In addition, blanking a blocker allows Alexios to wreak more havoc more quicker.
Lost Jittes is pretty goaded in Alexios. I agree with the cast that Jitte isn't great in most commander decks, but it's amazing in this particular deck.
Dawn's Truce doesn't protect against the board wipes you actually care about: Farewell, Cyclonic, or Toxic Deluge. Galadriel's Dismissal is way more versatile. Phase out your opponents board or play it for 1 mana. If you just want protection when you are set up to win, I like Reprieve better. If you play in a pod who runs a bunch of crappy destroy effect board wipes, Flawless Maneuver is way better.
@@bigtimepartytim I mean, Rift, Farewell, and Deluge are not the only board wipes people run. You've still got more typical stuff like Wrath, Damn(ation), Blasphemous Act, etc. Truce protects against all of it.
@@TheAverageGuyTAG yeah but like I said, I am running reprieve, galadriels, flawless manuever, perch protection, over Dawn's Truce if I just need protection from a board wipe. I don't even run Teferi's but there is that as well. That's just mono white. I don't value giving myself hexproof very highly and giving a card to a player is not a big deal but id rather not. Like how many protection cards are you going to play? It's like the 6th or 7th best option for my boros artifact deck that really wants to protect its board
When it comes to MDFC's, I pretty much jammed as many in as possible before I ultimately pivoted to deciding that I would run them if the spell side of the card was actually worth running within the consideration that it COULD be a land. I found that in a good few decks, Witch Enchanter and Sink Into Stupor fit that bill, and in my two graveyard decks in black, Boggart Trawler has outright just replaced Bojuka Bog, I just run it as a creature with a good etb that can be revived. Aside from that, it's niche. I don't own Valakuts but its probably the best one, but Sundering Eruption is great for land removal that isnt itself a land and getting through non fliers, and Kazuul's Fury is just good for wiping a player if something is super pumped up. I've got pet love for Hydroelectric Specimen, but it's... not great. The two energy ones are actually just good, but given the niche mechanic and resource there it's a special case. The advice I see about these is, just replace your lands. But I find replacing spells just works better for me personally.
Springheart Nantuko is stellar when you have a commander with an ETB effect. It doesn't fit the theme of my Carth deck really, but paying two mana to dig 7 deep into my deck each turn (or more with ramp and fetchlands) really helps me get my planeswalkers. And if you don't have the mana, doing a poor imitiation of Bitterblossom is great for chump blocking or sac fodder.
Three tree city? Of course, it's no gaea's cradle. But dude, that card is $300+. You're just flexing that you don't play typal or token creature decks. It's not overrated if it synergizes with at least one deck in every playgroup.
Played in the right deck three tree city is almost as amazing as a cradle, and it gives you mana even when you don't have any creatures on the board. Add to this I can play it in decks without green. It is definitely Nykthos good at least, it simply goes in different decks. The fact that people play it in wrong decks doesn't mean the card is overrated, it means that people are bad at deck building. The card is amazing and it has given me sooo many wins already
the problem is three tree city is slower then other mana generation cards. and it only hits creatures of specific colors where cradle immediately hits all creatures. uts budget and its good but theres much better lands out there. its popularity is thats its a cheap cradle.
Lost Jitte is most excellent if you are running Lotus Vale, Lost Vale, etc. Tap them for 3 mana, remove charge counter from Lost Jitte, tap for 3 mana again. It's very easy to tap them for 9, 12, or more mana for your 2 mana investment.
Had to pause the video. Springheart Nantuko is one of the most absurdly broken cards in commander. I've literally seen this card go infinite on an arbor dryad. I swear you guys have worst takes on cards than Richard from mtg goldfish. It's a repeatable clone effect in green FFS, how is this not understood. Terastadon, acidic slime, eternal witness, reclamation sage, elvison visionary, ulvenwald hydraxhow man lands you have.
Agree. Card is busted in every deck I’ve put it in which is almost all my green decks. Even if you’re not using the cloning effect it’s the cheapest card that makes tokens on landfall
Going infinite with a few cards is great and all, but if you take away the combos, and the card is just fine otherwise. It's not bad, but the value isn't as consistent as other pieces.
@ I don’t play combos in my decks and it still does work. What other card lets you make token copies of creatures repeatedly for 2 mana? I can’t think of any other cards with similar effects in that mana value
I love Chthonian Nightmare, but I also fully acknowledge that it isn't a one-size-fits-all like Recurring Nightmare is. I tried it in a few of my decks and in some, it was a dud. In others, it's one of the better cards in the deck, and allows me to do some WILD stuff. I love the design for exactly this reason. It requires a little pre thought and planning to check if it will actually work for you in any given deck.
i feel like whether you want chthonian nightmare or not is dependent on how packed with good creatures your 3 or less mana value slots are. the better your able to take advantage of it immediately the better the card is. The places i've seen the most success with it are my minthaara merciless soul deck which plays with proliferate cards and has lots of cheap bodies it would love to loop so i'm not even limited to mv 3 or less. and my Evereth Viceroy of Plunder deck which really enjoys the ability to loop my commander with another cheap creature and get that death trigger over and over.
Gonna add to some points already made in the comments. 1) Dawn's Truce says "permanents you control" and most of the other cards mentioned say "creatures you control." As a filthy combo/control player, I need my artifacts and enchantments way more than my creatures usually, and Teferi's protection is really the only alternate protection for them. 2) Springheart Nantuko is straight up broken. Even besides the ability to copy the bestowed creature, mentioned below, it is the only 2 mana thing in the game that makes creature tokens on landfall. When I'm trying to combo off with retreat to corral helm, being 1 mana cheaper than scute swarm is huge.
If you have 30 of your deck slots filled with blue creatures it's probably pretty hard to find a slot for flare of denial in that full list. Especially when there are other counter spells are still inherently better, like fierce guardianship. You almost need to have 30ish blue creatures AND want to sacrifice your creatures in order to want this. Some kind of strange blue aristocrats list.
@andrewpeli9019 dimir aristocrats maybe? Using cards like Cavern Skulker and Reef Worm? I feel like the issue with flare of denial in particular is that unlike the cycle of commander free spells which just require your commander to exist or the other free counters. Flare of Denial has an actual cost in both setup mana and a 2 for 1. The only flare I've gotten real use out of is Flare of Malice because of Black Sacrifice Decks
Flare of denial is amazing too in decks where your commander is blue and you play it because of on etb effect, and you can always play it for 3, remember that sacrificing a blue non token creature is an alternate cost. It is not the most exciting or powerful card always but it is slowly growing on me
Gotta agree with Joey here, pulled a Three Tree City in a pack. Immediately went into the elf deck and the Nykthos moved over to Giada. There's no reason to run TTC in Giada but a lot of angels have 2-3 white pips so Nykthos is much better. Meanwhile the elf deck has a lot of tokens and splashes a second color so nykthos wasn't nearly as potent there. If you have a deck that can consistently make it pay off, TTC is great, but in a typal deck that goes big instead of wide, doesn't do much.
I have both TTC and Nykthos in my Giada deck and yes, Nykthos is obviously better there but TTC still nets me more than 1 mana in 90% of time and if I run 26 or 27 plains makes literally 0 difference so TTC is an upgrade. Great card!
Three tree city is so good. I have it in 3 decks and it puts in so much work…. Dawns Truce is good. Gifting a card is not that bad of a set back. Been a good budget replacement compared to clever concealment and teferis protection Springheart is also incredibly busted in landfall decks. At worst it is making a 1/1 which fine. But being able to copy the nastiest landfall creatures. Which making land drops in landfall decks is not difficult lol. The amount of times I’ve copied avenger of zendikar, ancient greenwardens, tireless tracker etc and it produces soooo much value.
Dawn’s Truce has the same issue as Flare of Denial. Is it good ? Yes. Is there several better versions of it ? Yes. So it depends on how many of that type of spell you need to run.
re:necropolis regent, these kinds of cards that are only helpful when you are already ahead on board are usually called "win mores." In the quadrant theory (you/opponents ahead/behind) they only function in 1 of the 4 quadrants so are not usually great in commander.
One thing I am not sure that was mentioned in Dawn Truce's favor is that is protects "Permanents", not just creatures. So, for decks that want a lot of enchantments or artifacts, or even planeswalker decks, this is better protection than many others mentioned
Insane miss on Springheart Nantuko, it's so insanely efficient. It's a two drop that makes a creature token on landfall, I would honestly just play that card on its own without the upside of bestowing it on another creature too.
I run Dawns Truce in a Raffine deck and it has been such a good include there, saying it's overrated is insane 2 mana protect you're boardstate is good even if you gift a card to someone, give it to the person who's the most behind at the table it's basically never been an issue in commander.
Flare of denial besides my yuriko deck also made the cut in my sen triplets deck (both also play the black one ;)... Yuriko also really likes fell the profane. The last deck i play it in is my 5c aura control deck with a sprinkle of rooms. In there the commander is basically just the draw engine sometimes additionally saving mana on a room, making an alt wincon scarier than it is. Here after 1 to 2 games people tend to not kill the commander anymore. Sacrificing her is usually not a big deal. She is always there and becomes available again as a late game draw that filters out lands when mana is less of an issue thanks to cost reducers anyway. So i would add decks where the commander did significant work already when it hit the field to the list. As well as decks that steal creatures.
@@abeybaebe2514 No, I was thinking about adding that card to the deck but I decided not to. ( it's just a kind of weird stax piece ) it doesn't really effect my own game plan at all. ( draw 2 cards every single turn, play some illusions on my turn and have mana up for some counterspells as a safety blanket )
You are looking at the new modal double-faced cards all wrong. Instead of comparing Fell the Profane to a 2-mana removal spell, compare it to a Swamp. For the price of having to pay some life when you need it to enter untapped, you are getting the option to use it as a removal spell instead. That is a very good deal (you don't even need to pay the life if you don't need all your mana that turn). Since there's so little opportunity cost to playing one of these cards over a basic land, it's completely fine for them to take up a land slot in the deck rather than a removal slot.
@olvynchuru1663 on top of this an overcosted infernal grasp that can be a land when you need it to be is still good if you want additional lands without cutting as many nonlands. Getting 38 or 39 "lands" isn't necessarily that difficult when some of your spells are lands. At least if you really want consistent mana.
Screaming Nemesis is a bit of a niche in commander, but in the decks where it works, it works beautifully. It works wonders in my Neyith where I can consistently make it fight other creatures, ensuring Screaming Nemesis will take damage.
Yeah, it's amazing in my enrage-centered Vrondiss, Rage of Ancients deck that routinely pings multiple creatures per turn, but it's definitely niche... I wouldn't run it if I couldn't regularly deal nonlethal damage to it
Chithonian nightmare was very hyped by the cedh community, as it was a non green card that goes infinite with dockside. This meant rakdos decks like ob nix got the ability to make infinite mana and storm, and would then win in a multitude of ways. It was also 2 cmc, which is pretty nice for stuff like ad nauseum. Notably, blue farm and rog si got very easy dockside loops…. Then dockside got banned, and thus most of the cedh relevance of the card has been lost
I’m currently building a Helga deck and I’m not convinced Skyshroud cutter deserves a place. Yes it is free and triggers Helga, which is great, but it doesn’t fit in my interaction, finisher, draw, or ramp sections since it doesn’t have any extra abilities. I could be wrong though as I’m still new to Helga.
About High Fae Trikster (and other Orrery effects) I play her in my Ms. Bumbeflower deck, as it is heavy in creatures and it really makes Ms. Bumbleflower abilities shine. I also play it in my Glarb deck : it cost 4, I can cast it from the top of my library and then I have access to all my top of library spells anytime.
I play springleaf nantuko in my baba lasaga deck, having a way in green to make a copy of a creature thats 3 types is invaluable for that deck with evrey land drop. Its even better when my baba deck focuses on quite a lot of eternal witness effects to just keep the value engine going to near infinity.
Lost Jitte should be evaluated as though it didn't have "Jitte" in its name. I mean, I have only seen the card twice in EDH, but on one of those occasions it was being used in a GAAIV deck to accelerate through the player's own Winter Orb. There were some other interactions before that, but the counters built up on it didn't seem so scary until he kept getting to untap his lands multiple turns in a row and deploy even more prison cards while the rest of the table remained stuck. Yeah, that's a niche use, but it's so totally different from anything that Umezawa's Jitte is used for that the comparison seems moot. They're both legendary equipment and the both accumulate counters on combat damage, but those counters are used in totally different ways.
Ok but, Springheart Nantuko plus Woos Elves to pull as many forests from your deck as you want for a net cost of 1 per land is pretty sweet! Especially in a landfall deck where all those lands will then trigger *more* things!
I really have to disagree with you guys on fell the profane. The opportunity cost of sometimes having to pay 3 extra life is SO insanely low that I personally include it in all of my decks with 3 or less colors that can run it
I sprung for a number of the M3 MDFC lands, including Fell the Profane, despite agreeing that it's overcosted, but I run it in a Marchesa the Black Rose deck where the life loss on the land side helps ensures Dethrone triggers. If the land side wasn't synergistic, then it'd be a hard sell.
Nantuko shines in value midrange piles and tokens decks, not dedicated landfall decks. You bestow it on your Ravenous Chupacabra, or your Vault Tyrant, or your Circle of Dreams Druid. Also what is with the fixation on the mana cost, it's 2GG to create your first copy, that is peanuts in any deck with green in the identity?
When you were discussing Three Tree city vs. Nykthos, i was looking at the % vs the raw #of deck they are in. I've come to the conclusion that more significant figures are needed when edhrec uses percentages.
I love would love to add both Nykthos, and three tree city to my Tivit deck. It was an Anawon precon that still runs it as a secret commander. It is rouges through and through. The games I win hardly see Tivit. Having the white helps and thankfully we saw some white rouges. These cards both fit the idea of being on theme beautifully!
I feel like you’re not giving springheart Nantuko a proper evaluation. In my landfall deck I use it to copy things like tireless provisioner or lotus cobra. That way I end up getting 3+ treasures (or floating mana) everytime I play a land, and I usually play 3+ a turn in my landfall deck. Or copy things like dryad of the Elysian grove and get even more lands per turn
Dragon and angel decks are PHENOMENAL at making tokens. Whatareyoutalkingabout. How many cards see play that generate 4/4 angels and 4/4 (or 5/5) dragons? Luminarch Ascension. Resplendent Angel. Sigil of the Empty Throne. Speaker of the Heavens. The Book of Exalted Deeds. Etc. Dragon Whisperer. Sarkhans. Magda. Lathliss. Dragonmaster Outcast. That's not even mentioning Miirym, one of the most played commanders of all time. Etc. ALL of these see play, and more.
Both in this podcast and in various articles by authors on EDHrec over the years, there's been this recurring experience I keep having, because apparently I don't learn. Someone will say that a card is overrated and I'll think, "What? That card is great. In what way is it overrated?" Then the followup is, "It is X dollars." And I go, "Oh. I didn't know that." I honestly don't know one way or another how to feel about whether market value makes some statement about whether a card is overrated. But I do find it interesting, especially with how many times this has happened. Often, I don't know about the egregious price point of a card because I opened it in a booster pack and played it without ever even looking up the market value. Or sometimes it's an older card that spiked, and I didn't even pay attention. But of course none of that does anything for the people who don't already own the card and might consider using it if it weren't so expensive.
Chthonian Nightmare is definitely weaker than Recurring Nightmare, but it is still a very broken card, it just has more of a limitation and generally is better for comboing than for reanimation.
Springheart nantuko is insane in any strategy that cares about non legendary creatures. Having the ability to repeatedly clone your bloom tender, mulldrifter, wood elves, and etc for such a low cost is often a great way to propel you into the late game
Every card they compared Dawn's Truce to costs 1 to 2 more mana to cast except Heroic Intervention, which has been printed to death and is still $7 at the cheapest (because its a rare effect in green). Mana cost is a major dynamic for MTG - 1CMC can be the difference between winning and losing, and the difference between $.50 and $50 (or more).
I agree with Dana 100% in regards to Dawn’s Truce. Two mana and gifting a card to always protect your board especially when not in Green is a huge asset even with all of the other options available. Also slight pushback about comparing budgetary costs saying it is too expensive and then comparing it to Teferi’s Protection which (as of right now) is $35 and therefore way less accessible for most players.
@ True, but those criticisms also apply to Heroic Intervention and it doesn’t stop people from playing that. Also Dawn’s Truce at least has the flexibility of being able to be used offensively if you need to swing at a particular player which Teferi’s Protection can’t do.
In commander I'm pretty sure Springheart Nantuko is a lot better if you think of it as a clone. 4 mana for your first clone and 2 mana for every additional as long as you have lands to play. I'd put it in a clone deck before a landfall deck. Other alternative would be like Adrix and Nev if I'm doubling the tokens I'm definitely running this.
My friend has a Yedora deck that uses treefolk swinging as the wincon. Springheart Nantuko goes SO hard in that deck, using the Yedora lands to copy something like Timber Protecter for max protection or Dauntless Dourbark for huge trampling damage. Plus, since the lands come in untapped, it almost halves the cost of Nantuko's ability.
I was just yesterday looking at a copy of Skyshroud Cutter in my collection, and thought to myself, "When in the world would I actually cast this?" Now I know!
A lot of cards are better than the ones we play. But I've a lot of decks, and unless a card is actively not working, I'm not going to dig, order, or trade for a better one. Don't need like the best board wipes if your deck is fine with the ones I already opened. This goes for many other slots too that have a lot of options. Lends some variety to me paying different decks too.
Springheart nantuko is worth everything that you do to get it... if you bestow it upon a creature that gives an additional landlord per turn it is literally infinite land drops... so yeah it's worth the monetary cost, the mana value, and slot in your deck to say the very very least and probably should be played in every single landfall deck period as one of the best landfall enablers ever printed
Springheart Nantuko... Bestows, especially ones where the bestow cost is reasonable, are great IN AND OF THEMSELVES. I attach it to a creature, and AT WORST it gives the creatured +1/+1 for 2 mana, which is not great, but it ain't BAD. Once the creature leaves the battlefield, now I have a 1/1 creature, for free. It's not something great, but now if I CAN create insects, and IME I can do this pretty often, I'm starting to reap some actual value from the card. If I'm playing an enchantment deck, so I get some additional benefits, usually card draw, and maybe some sort of insect theme, then it becomes a pretty good card! It is one of those 'other 99' type cards. In a lot of games it is marginal, you might even discard it pretty easily, but the other half of the time it produces some decent results. Again, you are comparing this card with Innkeeper's Talent, but again you don't understand. Most people cannot afford a $20 card for most decks! $4, I can afford that!
Why do three tree city and nykthos shrine of nyx have different potential deck numbers. They can both go in any deck why would 1 be 95197 of 1701080 And the other is 277220 of 4924588. Should both be calculated from the 4924588? Making it closer to 2% then 6%
Any retrain of Recurring Nightmare that has any ETB would automatically be worse than the original. The effect itself being sorcery, means the ETB allows a window of opportunity for interaction not available with the original.
Fell the profane and hagra mauling are particularly great for control decks, but I wouldn’t run them jn just any black deck, just decks that plan to drag the game out and look to control the board. The flexibility is really great in those cenarios
Springheart Nantuko is one of the best cards released this year. I think it should go in almost any landfall, enchantress, or etb based deck. At worst, it is a 2 mana enchantment that makes a dude on landfall, which is the cheapest of those effects. At best, it repeatedly clones your biggest, baddest threat for 2 additional mana. It goes nuts in my Uro deck, and it’s been great in every other deck I’ve run it in. Definitely not overrated!
Cthonian Nightmare has been pretty good in my Tayam, Luminous Enigma deck, but to be fair I did build that deck solely because I wanted a deck where Cthonian Nightmare would be good.
Flare of denial. Volo guide to monsters. The creatures I care about that made the deck I get two of and later on I can recur the real one I sacrificed if necessary. I sac the original to stop a mld or wipe and it is perfect there. But I don’t have it in any other deck with blue. And I AM a blue mage (mostly simic)
Chthonian nightmare was hype af and not overrated, and then dockside got banned. It was an infinite dockside loop Now people are still tinkering with it but it is being removed from decks left and right.
@kirbyfanprime recurring is basically always better because you don't have to deal with energy at all and unlike Chthonian nightmare recurring is basically removal proof
$23??? Three tree city is great in token decks like Hare apparent or tribal decks like Jesse Zane Fang Bringer. Only thing that’s bad about it is you have to declare a card type when you play it. Which in a Landfall deck might be Elves, Beasts, Insects or plants and you don’t know in the first two turns of the game when you may be forced to drop this land to stay on curve.
Springheart nantuko is absolutely one of the most ridiculously broken cards they've printed for commander this year. After playing with it a bunch, there are just so many crazy things you can set up with this. I played a game literally yesterday where i put it on a tireless provisioner on turn 4 and it spiraled so out of control. I had 14 tireless provisioners and over 100 treasures made that turn alone. There are so incredibly many creatures nowadays that absolutely break the game when you make multiple copies of them, just think for a second about putting it on a risen reef or fecund greenshell (which then multiplies their triggers, leading to even more nantuko triggers, etc.) It only gets better in the lategame and the takes you(Matt) had on it this video makes me convinced you actually haven't had the pleasure of playing it or playing against it in a shell that synergises with it particularly well. I'm a very enfranchised player (been playing for about 18 years) and an early adopter of commander. I've lost plenty of games to avenger of zendikar and other amazing landfall payoffs, so i don't say this lightly, but springheart nantuko is WAY more powerful than avenger of zendikar, ESPECIALLY in landfall decks.
@@mathimus55 Fair enough, maybe i was a bit harsh in my wording, but I do stick with my assessment that the card is a house, and in the right shell can be an avengers level threat. The mana cost is quite easily offset by other common landfall cards such as lotus cobra, and getting a few copies a key creature can be really powerful if you can do it efficiently. I'm glad there's different experiences than my own as well though. Maybe i'm slightly overrating the card because i've seen it go wayyyy off every time it was in play, but i do think it's much stronger than just "fine".
Just curious but for 3 tree city why is out 1.4 million decks but nycthos is out 4.3 million? Both are colorless lands that should be able to into any deck
Newer cards haven't had as much time as older cards to show up in decks. When totaling a card's % we only count eligible decks that have been built or updated since those cards were released. Otherwise their % would be super skewed by years of data they never had a chance to be a part of
springheart nantuko is the perfect example of tricking players into trying to build rube goldberg machine esque combos. Like, it's interesting, but needs 4-6 other cards to be strong. It's also why I dont play aristocracts anymore, every combo is a minimum of 5-6 cards lol
Springheart nantuko is great in any green deck! Yes there may be better landfall payoffs but imagine bestowing it onto your avenger of Zendikars or rampaging baloths! Super disagree with Matt on this one! I actually don’t run any landfall decks at the moment but it’s in almost all of my decks with green in it. Almost every creature has so many words printed on them now and paying 2 mana to get more of whatever words they have just for hitting land drops is insane value!
dawn's truce stops bojuka bog. some grave players don't mind having their grave popped since they can rebuild, but it depends on cutthroat levels of the pod
I'll be real, I assumed most of the Final-Word Phantasm hype was because they made a fucking Columbo card (and in a surprisingly restraied and well done fashion to boot). Lost Jitte is bonkers in Alexios, you're getting 4 counters a round, which worst case gives you access to 4 mana, but can also stop your opponents from runing Alexios into a 1/1 deathtouch. Or once things are winding down just punch through for that last bit of damage.
I absolutely love Nykthos! It is one of my favorite cards of all time. I also love how Three Tree City has been playing in my decks. It finally feels like a Nykthos power-level in the 2+ color decks that I can't effectively play Nykthos. To call TTC overrated, mostly due to its price, can be subjective when we can continue to justify Nykthos's price. It can be argued that Nykthos is $40 good, however, It can be argued that Three Tree City is $17+ good. I have experienced that Nykthos is only optimal in Mono-colored decks. it is an absolute staple. Period. However, with the exception to niche strategies, it gets Exponentially worse when you add more colors to your deck. With the argument for/against Three Tree City: Yes, it does the bare minimum, like Nykthos, when you don't have a proper set up. That downside is real. You don't want to casually put TTC in just any Kindred deck, just like you don't want to casually put Nykthos in 2+ color decks. What makes TTC so appealing is how explosive a turn can get with playing a bunch of cheap creatures/creature tokens, then tap TTC to produce enough mana to play a finisher. Three Tree City can literally be a wincon in most decks that care about going wide.
Three Tree City is perfect in my Baru the Wurmspeaker deck. Which is of course Druid tribal. And Druids of course need a Tree or Three. I have activated it, untapped it and activated it again for like 14 mana on turn 6. Other than that, meh.
Hagra Mauling has such low numbers in part because Fell the Profane has replaced it in a bunch of decks, so I don’t think basing any part of your analysis off that statistical comparison is worthwhile. Meanwhile, if you’re not bouncing noncreature permanents with Sink Into Stupor, it’s an overcosted Unsubstantiate, similar to Fell the Profane being an overcosted Hero’s Downfall.
Three Tree City feels win more in too many decks. In the decks most players run it in the tokens needed to convert this into significant ramp only happens into the later part of midgame in which case you already have an expansive board state and plenty of mana. Most decks would be better off playing a more consistent land and over run effects. Feel like it's difficult to run too many MDFCs in mono and dual color decks.
i've taken several flares out of my decks or not included them in builds because having to sac a nontoken creature is kind of crappy. a steeper cost than it seems at first.
Gifting a card to fog during a boardwipe is really a non-issue imo, you just gift it to the player that’s set back the most. I’m still not sold on Dawn’s Truce but I don’t buy that ‘gift a card’ is a huge downside in this case.
I've found that gifting a card is not as bad as most people have said it is. As you said, just give it to the weakest player. Most of the time, it doesn't make an impact, and at least you are helping the weakest player with a card so that they can hopefully come back a little bit and have some fun
I think it can be a political positive in some cases, too. Being the only player that isn't affected by a board wipe gets you a lot of unwanted attention. Somebody, who got a card from you is less inclined to target you, if you play your cards right. One card does more psychologically than it does in reality in a format, where people draw 3-5 cards per turn easily
The negativity towards giving cards to opponents comes from a competitive 1v1 mindset. In multiplayer giving cards to other players doesn't translate to you losing necessarily and sometimes can even help you win.
Gifting a card is an upside as far as I'm concerned, the number of situations where it's not strictly beneficial towards you is minor at best. I've been playing commander for over 10 years, and there is usually a player who helping actually helps you, either because someone is weak, someone is massively ahead, someone has a poor match up into you or you just want to make them like you more. Worst case scenario Dawn's Truce is a sidegrade to Heroic Intervention, trading guaranteed indestructible for you getting hexproof and best case scenario it's just a better Heroic Intervention.
I rate the gift cards very highly, with Dawn's Truce, Dewdrop Cure, Into the Flood Maw, Parting Gust, Peerless Recycling, Perch Protection, Starfall Invocation and Wear Down all preforming extremely well in the game's I've been playing post Bloomburrow.
Completely agree. Your options when using Truce are “lose my board with everyone else *or* retain my entire board and give the opponent least able to hinder me/most able to help me one card in a singleton format where people are drawing cards all the time.” Which is to say the downside simply does not move the needle statistically, and in terms of raw advantage generated with it, you’re so asset-positive in that exchange that it doesn’t matter.
It’s like saying you shouldn’t use Chaos Warp because the opponent can hit something off the top. They can, but it’s almost always a better alternative to whatever was about to happen. Same with Arcane Denial. People overestimate these kinds of resource exchanges IMO, it’s like how MTG Goldfish completely dismiss single target removal because it’s a net negative while ignoring the fact that you properly use single target removal when your alternative is to just lose.
"Infernal Grasp is half the--" But Fell the Profane is also a land that enters untapped.
"If I'm spending 4 mana, I'd prefer it to be--" But Fell the Profane is also a land that enters untapped.
'As a removal spell, it's--" Also a land that enters untapped.
not dirt cheap discarded
Came here to said that and I am glad you did. Also fell the profan is one of my most favourite generic mdf land from mh3.
Yeah I think their take on the mdfc lands from mh3 is just bad. I run pretty much every one I can jn most decks. Even the tapped dual lands, they're just such a low opportunity cost in literally every single deck. I would give anything for 1 more removal spell
I dont get the appeal of these cards the couple I run in decks I run for the spell side only and one of them i can play as a land from the grave which is relevant in the deck it's in.
@@cread13 mdfc lands let you either: run more lands but still get more value than a land that simply produces mana by virtue of being half spell. Or run more nonland cards but still be able to get the mana you need by virtue of the mdfc cards also being lands
Fell the profane is so much better than Hagra Mauling. It doesn't need to enter tapped.
I partially disagree with you. If you're using it more often as a land drop, then Fell the Profane is better, but if it's more often a removal spell for you then Hagra Mauling is the better option. The only way I can think to tell which is better in a specific deck is to play that deck enough to know whether it's a land or spell more. It can very well be that in your instance, it's a land drop more often and that makes Fell to Profane better for your decks. I prefer Hagra Mauling myself because I play decks that care more about lasting to the late game and casting multiple spells, so I'm okay with playing a tapped land early on in the game and getting it back with a bounce land then casting it, so the 1 mana saved late game is better in my instance than 1 extra mana on turn 2 or 3.
@@chasm9557 thats the idea. its a land first and a spell second when you arent seeing your "real" interaction. a 4 mana kill spell late game. a land that doesnt get in your way in the early game.
if you never have to use it, thats the dream. that means you stayed so on rails that you never needed it. but its objectively wrong to build like youre always living the dream.
@@SeriosSkies92 That's why I said it depends on how you use it more when you're actually playing the game.
Agreed, I have literally NEVER cast Hagra Mauling for the discounted price.
Also removes planewalkers.
Fell the Profane and Sink Into Stupor are crazy good cards. Nothing is more important than hitting your lands drops. These are impactful spells on cards that can be played as lands. These propel your deck to the point where the deck can function if drawn early and they have impact on the game if drawn late. That’s the definition of a powerful card.
the best MDFCs imo are Fell the profane, Sink into Stupor, Boggart Trawler, Witch Enchanter, and Sea Gate Restoration. 4 of these are really good in the mid game as interactive spells when you need them and the last one is capable of drawing loads of cards late. and in decks with only a few colors they can be basically free
@@jmanwild87 Sundering Eruption also belongs on the list, it's a great finisher, a great land hate piece and a land drop in one, which really can't be beat.
Razorgrass Ambush is underrated! @@jmanwild87
@@jmanwild87 i also like disciple of freyalise. free disciple of bolas stapled to the back of one of your lands is great.
Don't disagree with anything said here. The bar for MDFCs to be playable is low. The bar for MDFC lands that come into play untapped is even lower. Agadeem's Awakening and Turntimber Symbiosis are two more that are very powerful. Turntimber Symbiosis gets way less love than it deserves.
The amount of times I have thought to myself “I’d win this game except I don’t want to give my opponent 1 card draw” has been exactly zero. I love Dawn’s Truce so much. It’s Heroic Intervention that also says “you have hexproof”. It saves you from being targeted also! Such a good card for 2 mana. Who cares about giving someone a card draw at that point. For all we know they could draw a land. “You and permanents you control gain hexproof.” So good
In regard to Springheart Nantuko, you are going to typically play it and a land in the same turn. It is basically 2GG for a clone in green and you get +1/+1 on a creature and any enchantress triggers. Then for future landfall triggers, you get extra clones. Is it broken or better than scute swarm. No. Is it reasonably good ? Yes.
I don’t see why an enchantress or landfall deck wouldn’t run it and for any deck running mana dorks like sanctum weaver, it fuels itself.
I would rather have 5 Nyxbloom ancients than 16 1/1 insects.
Besides, Scute Swarm is degenerate.
I think people evaluate it as a landfall card when you should look at it more as a green "blink" spell, to abuse ETBs.
@ How is that different from every other landfall card ?
Yeah, I have a few decks that arn't landfall decks, but can still play more than one land a turn. Those decks also have creatures with backbreaking ETBs, or attacks triggers. If you can make multiple of clones of them a turn, and still have a lot of mana left over, you're not going to lose.
Imagine slamming that thing on an Etali, Jesus have mercy
Springheart Nantuko does the thing that commander players play the game for. When you have a ton of mana and powerful creatures on board, it gives you a place to dump your ton of mana and make copies of the enormous things. That’s what many people who play the format are chasing.
Cool list guys, something that everyone missed about Fell the Profane is that it's an UNTAPPED land on the back. You only have to pay 3 life to put it into play with no tempo loss. That basically makes it a free card to play in mono or 2 colored decks. Sure it's overcosted for the destroy effect, but besides the life loss and the inability to land tutor it, there's no downside.
Though on the tutor front, you can tutor it with solve the equation effects if you need a land, so there's extra utility.
There was a lot of failing to read this episode I think, like them completely glossing over the fact that Springheart has bestow and thats how most people use the card
@Lucarioguild7 absolutely, I use it in my Etali deck for that reason.
Matt are you serious???? Springheart Nantuko is the only way Mono Green can make enough mana with Nyxbloom Ancient to crash the Arena server.
So many green cards it combos with that place a land on entry such as Primeval Titan, Topiary Smasher or even a humble clifftop Lookout can easily fetch every land in your deck in a single turn if you have spelunking out.
It goes crazy with “# of creatures/elves” mana dorks too.
It’s easily one of my favorite green cards early game or late game I’m always excited to see it in my hand.
Yeah I don't think Dana or Matt have ever actually read that card because the both kept talking about the insect token part and not the fact you can bestow it and make copies of one of your creatures.
@@Lucarioguild7 roach having a shit magic take? Nooooo, never. Whenever he says something, I genuinely believe the opposite to be truth.
This card has been an all star everytime I play my Titania Landfall deck, where I get lands to tap for 2, and then animate a land via Aleysha or other means, and then it goes infinite with landfalls. Not to mention its just good in general in any landfall decks, which is a lot of decks
@@Lucarioguild7read it, understand it, still haven’t felt impressed with it. I’m glad you have had good experiences with it though!
Springheat Nantuko is a Roaming Throne in any commander deck with a nice ETB. Ok, it costs you two mana each turn, but 2 mana to get your commander's ETB is a pretty great rate. Plus its in a colour where you can't normally get effects to repeat/double those sort of triggers easily. AND its a quid fifty not 20.
Tbh I mostly play Dawn's Truce for the art/frame/flavor text combination of the showcase variant. It's just a very pretty card.
I run it in bird tribal. That deck got a lot of upgrades recently ... the new full-art Foundations Kykar is also very pretty.
Springheart Nantuko take is wild. I think the card should be played more. I even ran it out not bestowed a couple of games because I had skull clamp in my hand. Stick it on a e wit or tireless tracker or a wood elves or fecund greenshell and just get so much value. Also not counting the token shenanigans that can be done after you secure a token of something.
I think the standard mode for it is to play it "unbestowed". It's the cheapest landfall - "make a guy" card around for 2 mana. That "unbestowed" mode is AT LEAST as important as the bestowed mode. But yeah, I can also bestow a lotus cobra or tireless provisioner and basically combo out in the same turn, if I have any landfall enablers out (ramunap, azusa, crucible etc.)
I play it in titania, where it's even good cloning my commander cause the etb is so good. Broken card.
I’m glad you’ve had positive experiences with it. I’ve never seen it on the field and felt like it was doing even as well as any other landfall payoff
I’m really fond of Bestowing Railway Brawler in my Bristly Bill deck.
A couple RBs will give you a murderous base of counters for BB to double and wrap up.
Fell the Profane is a card I have never once been sad to see. It's never dead. Need land? Got it. Need a kill spell? Got it. Absolute banger 100% of the time, I will not hear otherwise
Re, Fell vs Mauling - the former is an uncommon from a wildly opened set, the latter is a rare from a set no one opens anymore.
The fact that the mauling land always enters tapped is a big deal. That's a tempo hit that may prevent you from casting things on curve. You can swap a swamp out for a fell in any commander deck and that deck gets more powerful. Not the case for the mauling because of the tempo hit.
Springheart Nantuko is a bit of a false friend. Despite having Landfall it is far better in Big Decks. Having 1 card that you can play on a big bungus that turns all draws in your deck live. Bestow it on a Dragon, play cultivate, make 2 copies of the Dragon is huge, Landfall Decks inherently dont have the issue that the Nantuko solves
I’ve found a lot of success with Springheart with Sythis. It’s an enchantment that comes down to copy your other enchantress that draws cards and you have plenty of lands from the draw in enchantress so you don’t need to be strictly landfall or insect
My experience with springheart Nantuko in recent games has been an early reanimated ancient silver dragon, with a bestowed nantuko and ramp spell in the same turn. Maybe I got lucky but I’ve had it work for my more than not.
36:37 it wasnt the cost of creatures revived that made recurring nightmare good, it was the fact that on resolution your opponent couldnt respond to it, making it only susceptible to counterspell. The new nightmare has an ETB trigger which allows people to actually disrupt the combo with bounce or destroy effects
I think Tree Three City shines not necessarily in tribal decks, but in decks, where your commander is guaranteed to make a bunch of tokens on ETB/LTB/activation to make sure it's gonna be mana positive every time. Something like Ghalta and Mavren, Prossh or Xyris.
My issue with the card is that in a lot of tribal decks, the moment it creates a ton of mana is the moment you're already winning and... what are you actually doing with that extra mana?
I CAN construct a couple scenarios where it helps casting big stuff, like having 6+ squirrels out and being able to comfortably play preposterous proportions for 7 mana but a lot of the time, if you have a bunch of creatures of one type out, you're already exploding and having MORE mana doesn't do much for you? People say there's a low opportunity cost, but I consider colorless mana an opportunity cost because I'm only willing to play a couple of colorless lands in any given 3+ color deck.
So I think I like your idea where it's kind of super reliable in decks like Prossh and co., where you're basically guaranteed to produce a ton of mana after playing your commander.
Or hare apparents! You can play another round which is XX2W to blink any amount of creatures + X times and you can make more mana from the tokens for another mana sink next turn!
@@paulszki im casting a craterhoof type effect without wasting the elf bodies i need to actually attack with. also its a land. at worse im just tapping it for 1. its not eating my deckslots.
@@SeriosSkies92 super valid points, and if you have it, play it. But I'm not spending 20+ bucks on this card for an effect that is going to be marginally good in a lot of kindred decks.
Some youtubers were touting it as "if you play any kindred deck, this needs to go in." No, it does not, in fact, go into 5 color dragons because a.) at the time this becomes mana positive, I'm winning the game because I got to untap with four dragons in play, and also it's 5 colors and colorless lands have no business in 5 colors.
If I had ten copies of three tree city, would I jam it in monoblack zombies, or krenko or blue black fearies or elves? Sure I would, as you said, it's a low deckbuilding cost.
But in 3+ color commander dekcs, a colorless land is starting to be a bit sus, especially if it has to compete with a ton of other really great utility lands. With a lot of tribes, it really depends on how many you can consistently put on the board.
And then, when you ARE that point, what does that extra mana actually do for you? Depends on the deck, some decks can make good use of it, other decks... I don't know, Beastmaster Ascension exists and is like 3 mana. And craterhoof is nice and all, but not every deck is green and a lot of them might jsut play Banner of Kinship for 5. You don't need Three-Tree-City to cast 5 mana-spells.
Again, it's far from being a bad card, but it is also simply a bit overrated, as reflected by the price. But that price has also been dropping. I'd gladly pick up a couple if copies, if it were around 5 bucks, which is still a ton of money for one magic card.
@paulszki nykthos doesn't go in dragons either though. Good example.
Hum... Fell the profane can be played on a Removal slot. It is actually a great option to increase consistency in the absurd majority of decks.
Nah, 4 mana to destroy 1 creature is precon tier power level, or below.
@Suhrvivor it's also a land on the back that basically always enters untapped in commander. You trade raw efficiency for more consistent mana whether that be "I get to run more nonland cards because some of the Nonlands can be lands" or "i can run more lands without running out of gas as often. Getting very consistent mana while also having some of my lands be spells if i need it." Either way MDFCs are fantastic when you don't necessarily need every spell you play to be As efficient as possible
Man, the amount of idiots who do not get why mdfcs are good, is way too high
@@yavivanov6650 No, you don't need a mediocre removal attached to a land in the current state of the game, if you build your deck right you'll never run out of gas and you'll never need bad removals in your land slots.
@@Suhrvivor people who play competitive magic regularly say that commander players often run too few lands and even if you are running the correct amount of lands for your deck the opportunity cost of playing Fell the Profane over a Basic swamp is minimal in most games of commander
In defense of Lost Jitte in Alexios decks, Lost Jitte triggers off of Alexios dealing damage while under other players' control, but since you still control the Jitte, those players do not benefit from the equipment. In addition, blanking a blocker allows Alexios to wreak more havoc more quicker.
Lost Jittes is pretty goaded in Alexios. I agree with the cast that Jitte isn't great in most commander decks, but it's amazing in this particular deck.
I am thinking about telling a friend with such commander to play it since i think its a great card... But i hate playing against it allready 😅...
Dawns truce is 50% mana cheaper than the other examples you provide, also gives YOU heaxproof. One card to one person is nothing.
Dawn's Truce doesn't protect against the board wipes you actually care about: Farewell, Cyclonic, or Toxic Deluge.
Galadriel's Dismissal is way more versatile. Phase out your opponents board or play it for 1 mana. If you just want protection when you are set up to win, I like Reprieve better. If you play in a pod who runs a bunch of crappy destroy effect board wipes, Flawless Maneuver is way better.
@@bigtimepartytim
I mean, Rift, Farewell, and Deluge are not the only board wipes people run. You've still got more typical stuff like Wrath, Damn(ation), Blasphemous Act, etc. Truce protects against all of it.
@@TheAverageGuyTAG yeah but like I said, I am running reprieve, galadriels, flawless manuever, perch protection, over Dawn's Truce if I just need protection from a board wipe. I don't even run Teferi's but there is that as well. That's just mono white. I don't value giving myself hexproof very highly and giving a card to a player is not a big deal but id rather not.
Like how many protection cards are you going to play? It's like the 6th or 7th best option for my boros artifact deck that really wants to protect its board
When it comes to MDFC's, I pretty much jammed as many in as possible before I ultimately pivoted to deciding that I would run them if the spell side of the card was actually worth running within the consideration that it COULD be a land. I found that in a good few decks, Witch Enchanter and Sink Into Stupor fit that bill, and in my two graveyard decks in black, Boggart Trawler has outright just replaced Bojuka Bog, I just run it as a creature with a good etb that can be revived.
Aside from that, it's niche. I don't own Valakuts but its probably the best one, but Sundering Eruption is great for land removal that isnt itself a land and getting through non fliers, and Kazuul's Fury is just good for wiping a player if something is super pumped up. I've got pet love for Hydroelectric Specimen, but it's... not great. The two energy ones are actually just good, but given the niche mechanic and resource there it's a special case.
The advice I see about these is, just replace your lands. But I find replacing spells just works better for me personally.
Springheart Nantuko is stellar when you have a commander with an ETB effect.
It doesn't fit the theme of my Carth deck really, but paying two mana to dig 7 deep into my deck each turn (or more with ramp and fetchlands) really helps me get my planeswalkers.
And if you don't have the mana, doing a poor imitiation of Bitterblossom is great for chump blocking or sac fodder.
Sprinheart Nantuko seems pretty good in landfall even without bestowing. It power creeps out cards like Sporemound.
Three tree city? Of course, it's no gaea's cradle. But dude, that card is $300+. You're just flexing that you don't play typal or token creature decks. It's not overrated if it synergizes with at least one deck in every playgroup.
Played in the right deck three tree city is almost as amazing as a cradle, and it gives you mana even when you don't have any creatures on the board. Add to this I can play it in decks without green. It is definitely Nykthos good at least, it simply goes in different decks. The fact that people play it in wrong decks doesn't mean the card is overrated, it means that people are bad at deck building. The card is amazing and it has given me sooo many wins already
the problem is three tree city is slower then other mana generation cards. and it only hits creatures of specific colors where cradle immediately hits all creatures. uts budget and its good but theres much better lands out there. its popularity is thats its a cheap cradle.
Lost Jitte is most excellent if you are running Lotus Vale, Lost Vale, etc. Tap them for 3 mana, remove charge counter from Lost Jitte, tap for 3 mana again. It's very easy to tap them for 9, 12, or more mana for your 2 mana investment.
Had to pause the video. Springheart Nantuko is one of the most absurdly broken cards in commander. I've literally seen this card go infinite on an arbor dryad. I swear you guys have worst takes on cards than Richard from mtg goldfish. It's a repeatable clone effect in green FFS, how is this not understood. Terastadon, acidic slime, eternal witness, reclamation sage, elvison visionary, ulvenwald hydraxhow man lands you have.
Agree. Card is busted in every deck I’ve put it in which is almost all my green decks. Even if you’re not using the cloning effect it’s the cheapest card that makes tokens on landfall
Agreed. I put that thing in a Mazzy deck, slapped it on a Kor Spiritdancer, and ended up drawing up to 6 cards per aura
Going infinite with a few cards is great and all, but if you take away the combos, and the card is just fine otherwise. It's not bad, but the value isn't as consistent as other pieces.
@ I don’t play combos in my decks and it still does work. What other card lets you make token copies of creatures repeatedly for 2 mana? I can’t think of any other cards with similar effects in that mana value
Worse takes than Richard is hilarious 😂 Especially when he’s purposely hyping things up for content
I love Chthonian Nightmare, but I also fully acknowledge that it isn't a one-size-fits-all like Recurring Nightmare is. I tried it in a few of my decks and in some, it was a dud. In others, it's one of the better cards in the deck, and allows me to do some WILD stuff. I love the design for exactly this reason. It requires a little pre thought and planning to check if it will actually work for you in any given deck.
If you have a lot of good level 2s and 1s it’s insane.
i feel like whether you want chthonian nightmare or not is dependent on how packed with good creatures your 3 or less mana value slots are. the better your able to take advantage of it immediately the better the card is. The places i've seen the most success with it are my minthaara merciless soul deck which plays with proliferate cards and has lots of cheap bodies it would love to loop so i'm not even limited to mv 3 or less. and my Evereth Viceroy of Plunder deck which really enjoys the ability to loop my commander with another cheap creature and get that death trigger over and over.
I play it in my Lurrus Companion aristocrats deck and it slaps there
Gonna add to some points already made in the comments.
1) Dawn's Truce says "permanents you control" and most of the other cards mentioned say "creatures you control." As a filthy combo/control player, I need my artifacts and enchantments way more than my creatures usually, and Teferi's protection is really the only alternate protection for them.
2) Springheart Nantuko is straight up broken. Even besides the ability to copy the bestowed creature, mentioned below, it is the only 2 mana thing in the game that makes creature tokens on landfall. When I'm trying to combo off with retreat to corral helm, being 1 mana cheaper than scute swarm is huge.
Flare of denial probably goes in any deck with 30 plus blue creatures
Which probably isn't that many decks lol
If you have 30 of your deck slots filled with blue creatures it's probably pretty hard to find a slot for flare of denial in that full list. Especially when there are other counter spells are still inherently better, like fierce guardianship. You almost need to have 30ish blue creatures AND want to sacrifice your creatures in order to want this. Some kind of strange blue aristocrats list.
@@andrewpeli9019have you heard about merfolk?
@andrewpeli9019 dimir aristocrats maybe? Using cards like Cavern Skulker and Reef Worm? I feel like the issue with flare of denial in particular is that unlike the cycle of commander free spells which just require your commander to exist or the other free counters. Flare of Denial has an actual cost in both setup mana and a 2 for 1. The only flare I've gotten real use out of is Flare of Malice because of Black Sacrifice Decks
I put it in my merfolk deck
Mana drain or force of will would be better but flare of denial is way cheaper and I think will make people less salty
Flare of denial is amazing too in decks where your commander is blue and you play it because of on etb effect, and you can always play it for 3, remember that sacrificing a blue non token creature is an alternate cost. It is not the most exciting or powerful card always but it is slowly growing on me
Gotta agree with Joey here, pulled a Three Tree City in a pack. Immediately went into the elf deck and the Nykthos moved over to Giada. There's no reason to run TTC in Giada but a lot of angels have 2-3 white pips so Nykthos is much better. Meanwhile the elf deck has a lot of tokens and splashes a second color so nykthos wasn't nearly as potent there. If you have a deck that can consistently make it pay off, TTC is great, but in a typal deck that goes big instead of wide, doesn't do much.
I have both TTC and Nykthos in my Giada deck and yes, Nykthos is obviously better there but TTC still nets me more than 1 mana in 90% of time and if I run 26 or 27 plains makes literally 0 difference so TTC is an upgrade.
Great card!
Three tree city is so good. I have it in 3 decks and it puts in so much work….
Dawns Truce is good. Gifting a card is not that bad of a set back. Been a good budget replacement compared to clever concealment and teferis protection
Springheart is also incredibly busted in landfall decks. At worst it is making a 1/1 which fine. But being able to copy the nastiest landfall creatures. Which making land drops in landfall decks is not difficult lol. The amount of times I’ve copied avenger of zendikar, ancient greenwardens, tireless tracker etc and it produces soooo much value.
Dawn’s Truce has the same issue as Flare of Denial. Is it good ? Yes. Is there several better versions of it ? Yes. So it depends on how many of that type of spell you need to run.
Thats very valid! I just don’t have as low on my board I guess as them.
man I find it funny how its a budget replacement yet its out of my budget still
re:necropolis regent, these kinds of cards that are only helpful when you are already ahead on board are usually called "win mores." In the quadrant theory (you/opponents ahead/behind) they only function in 1 of the 4 quadrants so are not usually great in commander.
One thing I am not sure that was mentioned in Dawn Truce's favor is that is protects "Permanents", not just creatures. So, for decks that want a lot of enchantments or artifacts, or even planeswalker decks, this is better protection than many others mentioned
Insane miss on Springheart Nantuko, it's so insanely efficient. It's a two drop that makes a creature token on landfall, I would honestly just play that card on its own without the upside of bestowing it on another creature too.
I run Dawns Truce in a Raffine deck and it has been such a good include there, saying it's overrated is insane 2 mana protect you're boardstate is good even if you gift a card to someone, give it to the person who's the most behind at the table it's basically never been an issue in commander.
also used to to protect myself many times from targeted effects like bojuka bog etc. when I have a full graveyard, like it's so good
Flare of denial besides my yuriko deck also made the cut in my sen triplets deck (both also play the black one ;)... Yuriko also really likes fell the profane.
The last deck i play it in is my 5c aura control deck with a sprinkle of rooms.
In there the commander is basically just the draw engine sometimes additionally saving mana on a room, making an alt wincon scarier than it is.
Here after 1 to 2 games people tend to not kill the commander anymore.
Sacrificing her is usually not a big deal. She is always there and becomes available again as a late game draw that filters out lands when mana is less of an issue thanks to cost reducers anyway.
So i would add decks where the commander did significant work already when it hit the field to the list.
As well as decks that steal creatures.
I bought a Three Tree City for my Minn, Wily Illusionist mono Blue Illusion Tribal Deck.
Have you had a chance to play it yet?
Did you cast the big blue enchantment that makes everyone's creatures illusions with it?
@@alexleblanc6364 Sadly no, Haven't top decked it yet.
@@abeybaebe2514 No, I was thinking about adding that card to the deck but I decided not to. ( it's just a kind of weird stax piece )
it doesn't really effect my own game plan at all. ( draw 2 cards every single turn, play some illusions on my turn and have mana up for some counterspells as a safety blanket )
You are looking at the new modal double-faced cards all wrong. Instead of comparing Fell the Profane to a 2-mana removal spell, compare it to a Swamp. For the price of having to pay some life when you need it to enter untapped, you are getting the option to use it as a removal spell instead. That is a very good deal (you don't even need to pay the life if you don't need all your mana that turn). Since there's so little opportunity cost to playing one of these cards over a basic land, it's completely fine for them to take up a land slot in the deck rather than a removal slot.
@olvynchuru1663 on top of this an overcosted infernal grasp that can be a land when you need it to be is still good if you want additional lands without cutting as many nonlands. Getting 38 or 39 "lands" isn't necessarily that difficult when some of your spells are lands. At least if you really want consistent mana.
Screaming Nemesis is a bit of a niche in commander, but in the decks where it works, it works beautifully. It works wonders in my Neyith where I can consistently make it fight other creatures, ensuring Screaming Nemesis will take damage.
Yeah, it's amazing in my enrage-centered Vrondiss, Rage of Ancients deck that routinely pings multiple creatures per turn, but it's definitely niche... I wouldn't run it if I couldn't regularly deal nonlethal damage to it
Chithonian nightmare was very hyped by the cedh community, as it was a non green card that goes infinite with dockside. This meant rakdos decks like ob nix got the ability to make infinite mana and storm, and would then win in a multitude of ways. It was also 2 cmc, which is pretty nice for stuff like ad nauseum. Notably, blue farm and rog si got very easy dockside loops…. Then dockside got banned, and thus most of the cedh relevance of the card has been lost
I’m currently building a Helga deck and I’m not convinced Skyshroud cutter deserves a place. Yes it is free and triggers Helga, which is great, but it doesn’t fit in my interaction, finisher, draw, or ramp sections since it doesn’t have any extra abilities.
I could be wrong though as I’m still new to Helga.
About High Fae Trikster (and other Orrery effects) I play her in my Ms. Bumbeflower deck, as it is heavy in creatures and it really makes Ms. Bumbleflower abilities shine.
I also play it in my Glarb deck : it cost 4, I can cast it from the top of my library and then I have access to all my top of library spells anytime.
I play springleaf nantuko in my baba lasaga deck, having a way in green to make a copy of a creature thats 3 types is invaluable for that deck with evrey land drop. Its even better when my baba deck focuses on quite a lot of eternal witness effects to just keep the value engine going to near infinity.
Lost Jitte should be evaluated as though it didn't have "Jitte" in its name. I mean, I have only seen the card twice in EDH, but on one of those occasions it was being used in a GAAIV deck to accelerate through the player's own Winter Orb. There were some other interactions before that, but the counters built up on it didn't seem so scary until he kept getting to untap his lands multiple turns in a row and deploy even more prison cards while the rest of the table remained stuck. Yeah, that's a niche use, but it's so totally different from anything that Umezawa's Jitte is used for that the comparison seems moot. They're both legendary equipment and the both accumulate counters on combat damage, but those counters are used in totally different ways.
Ok but, Springheart Nantuko plus Woos Elves to pull as many forests from your deck as you want for a net cost of 1 per land is pretty sweet! Especially in a landfall deck where all those lands will then trigger *more* things!
I really have to disagree with you guys on fell the profane. The opportunity cost of sometimes having to pay 3 extra life is SO insanely low that I personally include it in all of my decks with 3 or less colors that can run it
I sprung for a number of the M3 MDFC lands, including Fell the Profane, despite agreeing that it's overcosted, but I run it in a Marchesa the Black Rose deck where the life loss on the land side helps ensures Dethrone triggers. If the land side wasn't synergistic, then it'd be a hard sell.
Nantuko shines in value midrange piles and tokens decks, not dedicated landfall decks. You bestow it on your Ravenous Chupacabra, or your Vault Tyrant, or your Circle of Dreams Druid. Also what is with the fixation on the mana cost, it's 2GG to create your first copy, that is peanuts in any deck with green in the identity?
When you were discussing Three Tree city vs. Nykthos, i was looking at the % vs the raw #of deck they are in. I've come to the conclusion that more significant figures are needed when edhrec uses percentages.
Love the show. I could listen to you guy talk about cards all day. Please keep making content like this.
I love would love to add both Nykthos, and three tree city to my Tivit deck. It was an Anawon precon that still runs it as a secret commander. It is rouges through and through. The games I win hardly see Tivit. Having the white helps and thankfully we saw some white rouges. These cards both fit the idea of being on theme beautifully!
I feel like you’re not giving springheart Nantuko a proper evaluation. In my landfall deck I use it to copy things like tireless provisioner or lotus cobra. That way I end up getting 3+ treasures (or floating mana) everytime I play a land, and I usually play 3+ a turn in my landfall deck. Or copy things like dryad of the Elysian grove and get even more lands per turn
Dragon and angel decks are PHENOMENAL at making tokens. Whatareyoutalkingabout.
How many cards see play that generate 4/4 angels and 4/4 (or 5/5) dragons?
Luminarch Ascension. Resplendent Angel. Sigil of the Empty Throne. Speaker of the Heavens. The Book of Exalted Deeds. Etc.
Dragon Whisperer. Sarkhans. Magda. Lathliss. Dragonmaster Outcast. That's not even mentioning Miirym, one of the most played commanders of all time. Etc.
ALL of these see play, and more.
Awesome, my Challenge the Stats submission made it on the show :D
Thanks for sending it!
It was a good one
"I think this card is good but it's not quite as good as I think you think it is."
My favorite MDFs from MH3 is Legion Leadership and Sundering Eruption in my decks that like to win with Commander Damage.
Both in this podcast and in various articles by authors on EDHrec over the years, there's been this recurring experience I keep having, because apparently I don't learn. Someone will say that a card is overrated and I'll think, "What? That card is great. In what way is it overrated?" Then the followup is, "It is X dollars." And I go, "Oh. I didn't know that."
I honestly don't know one way or another how to feel about whether market value makes some statement about whether a card is overrated. But I do find it interesting, especially with how many times this has happened. Often, I don't know about the egregious price point of a card because I opened it in a booster pack and played it without ever even looking up the market value. Or sometimes it's an older card that spiked, and I didn't even pay attention. But of course none of that does anything for the people who don't already own the card and might consider using it if it weren't so expensive.
Chthonian Nightmare is definitely weaker than Recurring Nightmare, but it is still a very broken card, it just has more of a limitation and generally is better for comboing than for reanimation.
If you don't think flare of denial is good, you're putting it in the wrong decks and you play counterspells incorrectly
Springheart nantuko is insane in any strategy that cares about non legendary creatures. Having the ability to repeatedly clone your bloom tender, mulldrifter, wood elves, and etc for such a low cost is often a great way to propel you into the late game
Every card they compared Dawn's Truce to costs 1 to 2 more mana to cast except Heroic Intervention, which has been printed to death and is still $7 at the cheapest (because its a rare effect in green). Mana cost is a major dynamic for MTG - 1CMC can be the difference between winning and losing, and the difference between $.50 and $50 (or more).
Lost Jitte (and OG-tte) on Alexios and Slicer is fun because the counters build up way faster in those decks.
Nantuko is great if you have a commander with a powerful etb effect.
I agree with Dana 100% in regards to Dawn’s Truce. Two mana and gifting a card to always protect your board especially when not in Green is a huge asset even with all of the other options available. Also slight pushback about comparing budgetary costs saying it is too expensive and then comparing it to Teferi’s Protection which (as of right now) is $35 and therefore way less accessible for most players.
Always protects your board until you run into cyclonic, deluge, or farewell... then its just a dead card
@ True, but those criticisms also apply to Heroic Intervention and it doesn’t stop people from playing that. Also Dawn’s Truce at least has the flexibility of being able to be used offensively if you need to swing at a particular player which Teferi’s Protection can’t do.
In commander I'm pretty sure Springheart Nantuko is a lot better if you think of it as a clone. 4 mana for your first clone and 2 mana for every additional as long as you have lands to play. I'd put it in a clone deck before a landfall deck. Other alternative would be like Adrix and Nev if I'm doubling the tokens I'm definitely running this.
My friend has a Yedora deck that uses treefolk swinging as the wincon. Springheart Nantuko goes SO hard in that deck, using the Yedora lands to copy something like Timber Protecter for max protection or Dauntless Dourbark for huge trampling damage. Plus, since the lands come in untapped, it almost halves the cost of Nantuko's ability.
I was just yesterday looking at a copy of Skyshroud Cutter in my collection, and thought to myself, "When in the world would I actually cast this?" Now I know!
A lot of cards are better than the ones we play. But I've a lot of decks, and unless a card is actively not working, I'm not going to dig, order, or trade for a better one. Don't need like the best board wipes if your deck is fine with the ones I already opened. This goes for many other slots too that have a lot of options. Lends some variety to me paying different decks too.
Springheart nantuko is worth everything that you do to get it... if you bestow it upon a creature that gives an additional landlord per turn it is literally infinite land drops... so yeah it's worth the monetary cost, the mana value, and slot in your deck to say the very very least and probably should be played in every single landfall deck period as one of the best landfall enablers ever printed
Springheart Nantuko... Bestows, especially ones where the bestow cost is reasonable, are great IN AND OF THEMSELVES. I attach it to a creature, and AT WORST it gives the creatured +1/+1 for 2 mana, which is not great, but it ain't BAD. Once the creature leaves the battlefield, now I have a 1/1 creature, for free. It's not something great, but now if I CAN create insects, and IME I can do this pretty often, I'm starting to reap some actual value from the card. If I'm playing an enchantment deck, so I get some additional benefits, usually card draw, and maybe some sort of insect theme, then it becomes a pretty good card! It is one of those 'other 99' type cards. In a lot of games it is marginal, you might even discard it pretty easily, but the other half of the time it produces some decent results.
Again, you are comparing this card with Innkeeper's Talent, but again you don't understand. Most people cannot afford a $20 card for most decks! $4, I can afford that!
Why do three tree city and nykthos shrine of nyx have different potential deck numbers. They can both go in any deck why would 1 be 95197 of 1701080
And the other is 277220 of 4924588. Should both be calculated from the 4924588? Making it closer to 2% then 6%
Any retrain of Recurring Nightmare that has any ETB would automatically be worse than the original. The effect itself being sorcery, means the ETB allows a window of opportunity for interaction not available with the original.
I think sundering eruption is the best mdfc from mh3
arent this percentages low since not every deck can playevery card? or are they calxculated from number decks that could play them
Fell the profane and hagra mauling are particularly great for control decks, but I wouldn’t run them jn just any black deck, just decks that plan to drag the game out and look to control the board. The flexibility is really great in those cenarios
Springheart Nantuko is one of the best cards released this year. I think it should go in almost any landfall, enchantress, or etb based deck. At worst, it is a 2 mana enchantment that makes a dude on landfall, which is the cheapest of those effects. At best, it repeatedly clones your biggest, baddest threat for 2 additional mana. It goes nuts in my Uro deck, and it’s been great in every other deck I’ve run it in. Definitely not overrated!
Cthonian Nightmare has been pretty good in my Tayam, Luminous Enigma deck, but to be fair I did build that deck solely because I wanted a deck where Cthonian Nightmare would be good.
Flare of denial. Volo guide to monsters. The creatures I care about that made the deck I get two of and later on I can recur the real one I sacrificed if necessary. I sac the original to stop a mld or wipe and it is perfect there. But I don’t have it in any other deck with blue. And I AM a blue mage (mostly simic)
Actually, Dawn's Truce is so good one. Gifting exactly works well and fun in this format especially. 😂
Chthonian nightmare was hype af and not overrated, and then dockside got banned.
It was an infinite dockside loop
Now people are still tinkering with it but it is being removed from decks left and right.
Chthonian Nightmare puts in a lot of work in Victor, but Recurring would be just as good, if not better.
@kirbyfanprime recurring is basically always better because you don't have to deal with energy at all and unlike Chthonian nightmare recurring is basically removal proof
I thought I would mention that sometime I will pick one card over another to play because of the art/border ect on that card
$23??? Three tree city is great in token decks like Hare apparent or tribal decks like Jesse Zane Fang Bringer.
Only thing that’s bad about it is you have to declare a card type when you play it. Which in a Landfall deck might be Elves, Beasts, Insects or plants and you don’t know in the first two turns of the game when you may be forced to drop this land to stay on curve.
Springheart nantuko is absolutely one of the most ridiculously broken cards they've printed for commander this year. After playing with it a bunch, there are just so many crazy things you can set up with this. I played a game literally yesterday where i put it on a tireless provisioner on turn 4 and it spiraled so out of control. I had 14 tireless provisioners and over 100 treasures made that turn alone. There are so incredibly many creatures nowadays that absolutely break the game when you make multiple copies of them, just think for a second about putting it on a risen reef or fecund greenshell (which then multiplies their triggers, leading to even more nantuko triggers, etc.) It only gets better in the lategame and the takes you(Matt) had on it this video makes me convinced you actually haven't had the pleasure of playing it or playing against it in a shell that synergises with it particularly well. I'm a very enfranchised player (been playing for about 18 years) and an early adopter of commander. I've lost plenty of games to avenger of zendikar and other amazing landfall payoffs, so i don't say this lightly, but springheart nantuko is WAY more powerful than avenger of zendikar, ESPECIALLY in landfall decks.
Played against it several times, which is why I felt fine saying what I did. I’m glad you have had good experiences with it though.
@@mathimus55 Fair enough, maybe i was a bit harsh in my wording, but I do stick with my assessment that the card is a house, and in the right shell can be an avengers level threat. The mana cost is quite easily offset by other common landfall cards such as lotus cobra, and getting a few copies a key creature can be really powerful if you can do it efficiently. I'm glad there's different experiences than my own as well though. Maybe i'm slightly overrating the card because i've seen it go wayyyy off every time it was in play, but i do think it's much stronger than just "fine".
Just curious but for 3 tree city why is out 1.4 million decks but nycthos is out 4.3 million? Both are colorless lands that should be able to into any deck
Newer cards haven't had as much time as older cards to show up in decks. When totaling a card's % we only count eligible decks that have been built or updated since those cards were released. Otherwise their % would be super skewed by years of data they never had a chance to be a part of
@EDHRECast word word makes sense to me!! Never realized it till today is all.
springheart nantuko is the perfect example of tricking players into trying to build rube goldberg machine esque combos. Like, it's interesting, but needs 4-6 other cards to be strong. It's also why I dont play aristocracts anymore, every combo is a minimum of 5-6 cards lol
Springheart nantuko is great in any green deck! Yes there may be better landfall payoffs but imagine bestowing it onto your avenger of Zendikars or rampaging baloths! Super disagree with Matt on this one!
I actually don’t run any landfall decks at the moment but it’s in almost all of my decks with green in it.
Almost every creature has so many words printed on them now and paying 2 mana to get more of whatever words they have just for hitting land drops is insane value!
dawn's truce stops bojuka bog. some grave players don't mind having their grave popped since they can rebuild, but it depends on cutthroat levels of the pod
I'll be real, I assumed most of the Final-Word Phantasm hype was because they made a fucking Columbo card (and in a surprisingly restraied and well done fashion to boot).
Lost Jitte is bonkers in Alexios, you're getting 4 counters a round, which worst case gives you access to 4 mana, but can also stop your opponents from runing Alexios into a 1/1 deathtouch. Or once things are winding down just punch through for that last bit of damage.
I absolutely love Nykthos! It is one of my favorite cards of all time. I also love how Three Tree City has been playing in my decks. It finally feels like a Nykthos power-level in the 2+ color decks that I can't effectively play Nykthos. To call TTC overrated, mostly due to its price, can be subjective when we can continue to justify Nykthos's price. It can be argued that Nykthos is $40 good, however, It can be argued that Three Tree City is $17+ good. I have experienced that Nykthos is only optimal in Mono-colored decks. it is an absolute staple. Period. However, with the exception to niche strategies, it gets Exponentially worse when you add more colors to your deck. With the argument for/against Three Tree City: Yes, it does the bare minimum, like Nykthos, when you don't have a proper set up. That downside is real. You don't want to casually put TTC in just any Kindred deck, just like you don't want to casually put Nykthos in 2+ color decks. What makes TTC so appealing is how explosive a turn can get with playing a bunch of cheap creatures/creature tokens, then tap TTC to produce enough mana to play a finisher. Three Tree City can literally be a wincon in most decks that care about going wide.
END 👏 OF 👏 YEAR 👏 CHALLENGE 👏 THE 👏 STATS 👏 EPISODE 👏👏👏
Chthonian nightmare is excellent in my shirei deck, but I don't see it fitting in many decks
I've never seen you guys disagree on so many things... are you gonna be ok?? 😂
It's almost like we all have a different perspective on how we approach the game and our decks
@ I don't buy it... you guys share a brain 😂 For real though, thanks for all the awesome content, you guys are numero uno 👍🏼
Three Tree City is perfect in my Baru the Wurmspeaker deck. Which is of course Druid tribal. And Druids of course need a Tree or Three. I have activated it, untapped it and activated it again for like 14 mana on turn 6. Other than that, meh.
Hagra Mauling has such low numbers in part because Fell the Profane has replaced it in a bunch of decks, so I don’t think basing any part of your analysis off that statistical comparison is worthwhile. Meanwhile, if you’re not bouncing noncreature permanents with Sink Into Stupor, it’s an overcosted Unsubstantiate, similar to Fell the Profane being an overcosted Hero’s Downfall.
Three Tree City feels win more in too many decks. In the decks most players run it in the tokens needed to convert this into significant ramp only happens into the later part of midgame in which case you already have an expansive board state and plenty of mana. Most decks would be better off playing a more consistent land and over run effects.
Feel like it's difficult to run too many MDFCs in mono and dual color decks.
i've taken several flares out of my decks or not included them in builds because having to sac a nontoken creature is kind of crappy. a steeper cost than it seems at first.
Wow hard disagree with the springheart take.