The cut-price Paris casino
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2023
- Caroline Roper, Ella Hubber and Tom Lum from the podcast 'Let's Learn Everything!' face a question about a confusing casino conundrum.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcast.com
GUESTS:
Caroline Roper: / carolinethebug
Ella Hubber: / ellahubber
Tom Lum: / tomlumperson
Let's Learn Everything podcast: www.letslearneverythingpod.com/
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023. - บันเทิง
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I apparently stumbled into the correct idea without knowing it.
I was thinking there was a casino right by her house, and the next nearest casino was far away and she'd have to spend a lot of money on transport. I wasn't thinking the transport cost would be plane tickets.
I knew EU and US had the different numbers on roulette. I did not know the was a casino called Paris in Las Vegas.
@@arikwolf3777You were closer than me. I sort of accidentally stumbled into a tangentially related subject. You, at least, were in the right subject.
I stumbled into it from the other end. I knew the twice losses was the 0 vs 00 and 0 wheels, but didn't realise the paris hotel name
saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame
Exactly the same here! It was the very first thing I thought of... which I then thought was wrong based on how things went... but it turns out it was even more right than I'd thought in the first place! lol
I was so confused when Tom said "It's modern time" because casinos aren't allowed in Paris. So I knew something was up
i loved "i don't do maths, and wont do it for you"
Would that I knew to shout that in school, my days would have been a lot easier.
Not even for Tom Scott.
🎵 I would do anything for you, but I won't do MATH 🎶
This is interesting because it relies on the way the English language can adjectivize basically anything, so "Paris casino" can be both "casino in Paris" or "casino called Paris": in many other languages this would not work, because one and only one of those would require a preposition, or in other languages, different declension suffixes would be used.
Yes and no, I suppose.
If the question was in another language, but still about that casino in Vegas, that would break in many languages simply because they call Paris (the city) a bit differently, e.g. Paříž in czech.
But if the casino was in such county and had a local name includin the word for Paris, it would be possible to have such name that would work, e.g Pařížské kasino (parisian casino) can be both a name and a casino in Paris
I'd love to have a Lateral episode with TechDef team
Oh yes!!! Hear HEAR!
Yessss!
They first Lateral requiring heavy censoring lol.
This game is kind of like a shorter Citation Needed
Without knowing how much she's losing, we don't know whether a trip to Paris (to lose only half) would have made financial sense.
We do know, because the question states as such.
Well, he did talk about long- and short-terms
I'm sure it's because they know each other, but this panel is so much fun
Can recommend their podcast too, Let's Learn Everything. And yeah they are super fun.
I enjoyed the Answer in Progress ones as well for the same reason.
Weirdly, my guess was wrong but in the right direction. I was thinking of Paris in Texas.
Yeah I thought that too, but casinos are restricted in location in America. Unless it was an illegal casino of course! (Although looking up a list they are in more states than I thought there were, it isn't just Vegas and Atlantic City these days!)
there are no casinos in Paris Texas
The 00 is a feature of American roulette. As Ian Fleming comments via several of the James Bond novels "The second zero is what pays for all that neon in Las Vegas"
Though I know nobody but Tom of that group, this is easily my favorite Panel. They are so joyful, it makes my days :)
I was guessing her home (maybe in a vintage amusement arcade) casino allowed tiny bets - 1 penny max, but all the other casinos despite having better odds (maybe vintage version of the game paid out worse) would only take normal size bets - so short term even though she loses more often with the penny bets she's better off than if she went to the normal casino and lost once, but long term in her local casino she would lose more often.
I instantly knew it would be roulette because of 0 and 00 thing, but the second part completely eluded me.
Tom, you are an evil, evil, man. And by far my favorite question so far. Love it!
Spoiler of sorts : there aren’t any casinos in Paris. They’re illegal. I’m French. Gamblers in my family. Closest casino is Enghien. There are however a few private « cercles », clubs, with roulette tables. But you have to be a member, and that’s not easy,
Yet again, more financially rational to gamble in Paris in Vegas than to gamble in actual Paris.
...maybe just don't gamble? That's the more financially rational decision, yea?
My first thought was either travel cost or entrance fee for casino make it not worthwhile, but didn't consider the travel cost to include a plane ticket. Great question.
Spoiler mode ACTIVATE!
Actually, my local casino, "Resorts World NYC" (everyone just calls it "The Aqueduct Casino" because it's at Aqueduct Racetrack) has BOTH types of Roulette wheels, with the single zero wheels in a corner behind the bar labeled "European Single Zero Roulette".
The one catch is that all the "table games" are automated, controlled by the computers. There is still a physical wheel and ball, it's just there is no dealer watching the table. which helps since there is no chips, everything is digital.
I've been to that exact casino in 2013, I was trying to find video blackjack but I walked around the entire casino and couldn't find it.
Recently I went to Jake's 58 on Long Island, and I was able to find video blackjack right away.
Out of curiosity: Why would you want to go to a physical casino just to play a digital version of those games?
Isn't messing with the physical chips and having a human dealer an essential part of the experience?
@@TheBrain2K A lot of casinos in NY can't have table games, so video blackjack is the only option.
@@TheBrain2K because it's a complicated situation. These "Raceinos" (Casinos at racetracks) operate under different laws and regulations than a true stand-alone casino (which are also legal in New York now) does. For one thing... the mininime age to enter and gamble is 18 instead of 21. Legally speaking, when you play these games, you are playing the New York State Lottery, which when you cash out, has their logo printed on the back of the slip the machine gives you. You then take that slip to a counter or a machine to get your actual cash.
The machines are also technically described as "Video Lottery Terminals"...
As for the why you would go to one?
The nearest place to otherwise go gambling with proper, physical machines and equipment is Atlantic City.
From my house in NYC to Altantic city is a 2 and 1/2 hour drive, burning fuel, and paying tolls on the Garden State Parkway.
Taking transit, the quickest route is New Jersey Transit's 319 express bus, which runs at roughly the same amount of time and with a discounted ticket, is a $42 round trip.
Or I can go to Aqueduct, It's less than half an hour total travel time by car on a rough traffic day, less than an hour by transit, and for your average person, less than $6 round trip on the MTA. Or in my case, completely free, since I work for the MTA and don't have to pay.
My first thought was something about counting cards so that she's winning on average somehow, so having the losses (and the wins) doubled is beneficial.
The first part of the question I knew right away, since I love probabilities and thus have looked into casino games quite a bit, without any desire to ever play them. The second part, why it is still financially viable to go to another casino, tricked me completely, though.
Good question!
Very clever question, especially with people who arent familiar with the vegas casinos.
Great wordplay
I know you'd do it without me saying, but thank you for your commitment to captions!
Always makes me laugh when creators know their audiences enough to dance in their blind spots and toy with their implicit biases 😂
You forgot to check an important point: there isn't any casino in Paris proper 😂. The only one in the greater Paris area is in Enghien-les-Bains...
@tom just so you know, the Cromwell on the Vegas strip has a single zero roulette wheel and it's less than a mile away.
#Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
Funnily enough, my brother just visited Paris and bought me a deck of cards. All of the face cards pictures were decapitated. :)
That was a wonderful question with so many little tricks hidden in it. Also, though not pointed out in the video, I kinda figure the name CoLETTE is a subtle hint towards it being rouLETTE.
Honestly, it's a coincidence, unless my mind was working on some kind of subconscious level -- David
These guys are so nerdy that I feel at home
My guess was that the bus fees would cancel out the additional winnings.. I'm not *that* far off
Closer than the rest of us were, that's for sure
That'd be quiet the bus fare. I'd say you earned a point
And here I am as a French, wondering if it's a joke on the Casino grocery store line in France...
No way! That was a GREAT question!
And recently they've introduced 000 I've heard too.
and 0000 too
That was impossible, well done!
v happy how quickly I got this one. Though my first thought was Paris, Texas rather than Vegas
Is there any where to WATCH the whole episodes?
And simple knowledge question beat them all 🤣😇 Good ideation all ‘round!
First thought before watching the whole vid:
Collette's favourite casino has American roulette wheels (0 & 00), while the alternative has French wheels (only single 0) and she's playing red or black.
Doesn't quite work out as half the losses, but pretty close.
Financially rational to play at the first because... it's within walking distance, and the other would cost her more to travel to?
Edit: 6 minutes in Tom gives it away. Collette's in Paris, Texas and would have to travel to Paris, France to play on a French wheel.
Edit 2: Close enough. Should have remembered most of the US doesn't have casinos.
I thought there was actually something related to the minimum / maximum bet in this question as, years ago, I went to a Casino in Sydney that, on the lower stakes tables, they had 0 and 00, but on the higher stakes tables in the same casino, they only had 0.
I knew about the 0 vs 0/00 difference in European vs. American casinos. But taking into account the flight wasn't obvious.
Yes, a rather easy question imho. The flight cost was a nice twist to two easy parts. No need to apologize Tom
After watching an episode of series three of Only Connect I'm kind of sad that someone isn't sporting their ponytail for this quiz too.
It's a good thing you're Tom Scott.
Additional factoid: the Monte Carlo roulette has an additional rule if you bet on one of the three 50/50 options. If you lose, your bet stays in the same spot but in jail («en prison»); if the *next* number you lose then you lose your bet, but if you win you get your bet back (no profit though). I thought this was the case for all “European-style” roulettes…
Would be nice if any of the guest stars had social media links in the description. I don't really count ex-social media sites.
I got the answer before the end of the question being read out, but I was thinking that about Paris, TX (where you probably can't play roulette) rather than a casino call 'Paris' in Las Vegas.
As someone who knows roulette and the difference between American roulette and European roulette, I knew the first part easily but expected the second part to be about taxes. Interesting note: the Montreal casino has both kinds of tables right next to each other.
As far as I can work out, the only way that removing the 00 from the wheel would halve her losses is if she is betting on every number except green ones. That doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me.
I thought that at first but then it dawned on me that if she is betting on red or black then in the long run half the time the other colour comes up and she loses her stake, and the other half the time, when her colour comes up, the payout is such that she gets her stake back and has it matched again as prize money, so overall the winning times are paying back the money lost on the losing times, making it a break even game in the long run. Only the green 0 (and 00 if it exists) make it so the players will actually lose money in the long term, so the existence of both of them, rather than just one of them, does technically double the losses in the long term (those last three words being quite important here). I think this episode needed someone like Matt Parker, Katie Steckles or Tom Crawford or someone like that who would probably have sat the question out then been able to provide mathematical insight into the nuances of the quesition wording nearer the end of the video. BTW your suggestion of betting on all numbers except the green ones would still be an overall break even strategy (other than when green came up), but now every individual bet would be a break even bet too (other than when green came up), rather than the wins just perfectly canceling the non-green losses.
@@MrDannyDetail Ah, you're right. A very tricksy question.
Ok, that was brilliant.
When talking about probabilities in gambling, "over the long term" usually implies calculation of expected value in infinite number of games (or at least in million games).
So it's hard to say that plane tickets Vegas-Paris-Vegas would be neсessarily more expensive than doubling the losses.
If I understand correctly, you _can_ bet on the zeroes, but the payout is calculated as though there were only 36 numbers on the wheel, so your expected return is slightly negative.
My first thought was
Paris France and Paris Texas, but I know America only allows casinos in very specific places.
Until a few years ago casinos were illegal in Paris, France. When I first visited France 50 years ago I was told that French casinos had to be a certain minimum distance from Paris (100km?).
Actually guessed this one straight away for once
Well, I figured out most of that (roulette, 0 vs 0 and 00) but forgot there is/was a Paris Casino in Las Vegas.
There was a hot second in there where I was like "Ohh, she's betting on green, so going from one green to two would (very close to) halve her losses because she's not playing optimally!" Then I realized that it still doesn't make financial sense to to keep playing on the one-green wheel unless she were to suddenly change how she plays.
I know it's not really as fair as the other questions, but I do like this one for being cute.
ngl the idea of "it would be financially risky to go to the other casino" did cross my mind but I didn't take that to its logical conclusion.
I've never played roulette, but I knew the answer right away … from game developer statistics trivia. 🤭
love the tangents into poker in the conversation, but also showcasing that very clever people can not know everything ie, roulette rules and system. It makes not knowing bits of info more normalised.
This may be my least favourite question you've ever asked. It's maximum on tricksiness and minimum on an interesting story to be revealed.
That said, I love the podcast and one bad question a year is OK by me.😅
I think it was one of my favorite questions as an occasional thing, but if they were all like this I'd not be as into the show as a total. This is the kind of question that needs to be rare, but if it is rare is so much fun. It applies to a totally different kind of logic/thinking than the others.
I mena , i knew roulett wheels were like that in the US and how the game is played. But the question (and the discussion) threw me off so much that I didn't get to it. Even though I could have explained everything else about the situation X-D
I used to work in the gaming industry, and it's not only 0 and 00; some casinos have 000, and even 0000 on their wheels.
My initial guess was it had to do with travel costs. But I did not realize it was the cost of a plane ticket.
Literally 5s after the question is read: The MAFFS and NON-MAFFS people 😂
Theres also maybe some weird math about if you're playing at an edge in blackjack, your losses are negative so doubling your losses would be good.
Fun question - "only half as bad" was leading me down the La Partage / En Prison route (where for even money bets on roulette, half the stake is returned on a green number; with prison being a "let it ride" variation where the second result either returns or forfeits the stake placed). I guess that would similarly work if the cost of the bus or taxi exceeded the 1.35% house edge difference (e.g. for a €10 taxi that would need to be €741 wagered in one session), admittedly not quite as clever as the provided answer!
Serious question here. If we play roulette with 3 balls and always take the majority answer (ie black or red) does this change the probabilty statistics over just one ball?
"It's another one of those Hollywood Squares...TRICK QUESTIONS!" -Shadoe Stevens
This question is not tricksy, it is evil. And yes, you have to apologize for that one. But it was fun.
I made it more complex and thought one casino was in Paris, Texas and the other in Paris, France.
I was CONVINCED the answer was that the other casino was couples only so you always split your losses with someone else, maybe that's too far outside the box
It's obvious that this is about roulette, particularly between European wheels (with one 0) and American wheels (with two 0s). So perhaps this casino is within the US embassy in Paris, so it uses the American version but for tax reasons it still ends up making sense.
Well... close. Though I'd argue whether or not it's financially viable would depend on how much she's willing to gamble.
Initial guess: her wins are quadrupled at the first table.
Paris casino I thought the real one in Vegas of course. Oh, that other Paris
And they used a French name for the player to mislead us further! Colette is American and lives in Las Vegas!
Sorry, but if Colette bets like I used to before wife/child/mortgage (i.e.: large bets but infrequent visits), her lesser losses at the casino in Paris could easily cover the cost of the flights there and back (once a year to account for the long term mentioned in the scenario?). Hence, it would be financially rational to travel to a casino with a smaller house edge.
I was thinking it was *her* casino, as in owned by her, so in order to bet the same way at a different one, she’d have to buy the casino.
2min guess: the game is twise as fast. Making it more "time effective" and therefore rational.
Honestly I heard "Her Paris Casino" and went "does she own the casino"?
I object to this question because it wouldn’t halve her losses. If you’re going to have a hypothetical question, at least get the maths right.
Even the odds of the house winning aren’t halved, because (1/37)/(2/38) = 1/2 x 38/37, but the losses, assuming you bet on one colour and win 1:1 odds, only change by about 4%. She could easily save even more losses by buying a calculator
American Roulette has 0, 00 and 36 numbers, a house edge of 5.26%. European Roulette has one 0 and 36 numbers, a house edge of 2.7%, or half as much.
That was evil! 🙂
Sorry, not sorry.
1:00 _Jerma fans hear their sleeper agent activation code_
Tricksy Tom Scottses
My first thought: she wanted to lose money as some sort of fee/tax avoidance or money laundering scheme.
I’m surprised that no one asked *which* Colette it was: the author or the water-bar founder…
It was neither.
Well i can say that i got the 00 on the wheel, but i didn't get Las Vagas bit.
Can i have half a point? 🥴
The boys at Jetlagged should try this IRL
✌✌
2:09 She would be taxed at a higher rate. Not sure why, but that's my guess.
Tom mentioned a trick in the question. Is it Her* casino? As in she owns it? So the losses go right back to her? That was my initial thought during the reading, but then other Tom said tariffs.
Except Las Vegas has gotten even worse than that. Some casinos have added a 000. So there is 0, 00, and 000.
0000 is also a thing
I assume that the first casino is just much closer to her and transit costs would make going to another casino not financially rational
Guess at 2:20 : Does it cost her less to get to that casino somehow?
2:51: Gues not...
Edit at 8:16: guess it was! But not the way i thought....
Using a french sounding name also adds to the switch
"If she went to a different casino in Paris"
Hmm
Meanwhile, I'm thinking the entire time it has something to do with the faulty conjugation of the word "bet". She can't have "betted" anything, because that isn't a word.
It's in the OED and Chambers dictionary. I just wanted to emphasise the past tense -- David
@@lateralcast Well, i just lost an argument with my dad..
I thought it might have been blackjacks paying 3:2 instead of 6:5 but the math doesn't add up 😅
Ironically I immediately thought of travel costs, but in a completely wrong way. I thought she's losing so little money that the difference in metro fare costs more than the money she can save at the table.
the whole time your name choice tripped me up because 'Colette' is the name of a pretty famous female author, and not that many other people. so kept wondering if she was somehow relevant to the question
Tom playing dirty🤣
I'm SHOCKED , SHOCKED to find Gambling is going on in here!
Wow I thought it was a travel thing, but then he said Paris in both scenarios.
Im not a big gambler. But not knowing about 0 with roulette seems like a rooky mistake. Isn’t this common knowledge?
I think the question is read wrong. For the correct meaning there needs to be a slight pause between "different casino" and "in Paris". Otherwise it means that both casinos are in Paris.
We mean what we say, but we don't have to say what we mean.
@@lateralcast I'm not sure I get the distinction.
@@barneylaurance1865 A bit like a cryptic crossword clue -- what we say has to be accurate, for fairness. But if someone misinterprets what it means, that's deliberate.
@@lateralcast My point is that what Tom said wasn't accurate in this case. It wasn't ambiguous, the prosody disambiguated to the wrong meaning.
It would have been ambiguous if it was read as a list of words instead of a normal sentence, but that's not how it was read.
Wait, so she is betting equally on black and red simultaneously (betting not green)? That would be the only way her losses would be half as much in Paris.