Involved with an avoidant = enjoy the non-relationship that's going nowhere, and will finish overnight the moment you call them out on their nonsense. Don't be a sap, listen to your gut, and walk away the first time you think that you should
exactly my point of view. enough to see the above dismissive comments to understand that they actually DONT even understand the point, there is no point for them because basically there is no relationship with them
EXACTLY! My gf of 5 years recently broke up with me over email (!) because i finally got angry about us not seeing eachother more than a couple days every two weeks. (And even that i could've muddled by with... except that she didnt seem to care if we talked at all in that timeframe. It was usually left to me to initiate that, and she would even get judgy if i did it too often). I was actually looking for rings after the 1st half-year. I held off because her life was hectic and figured when things finally settled down a bit we'd go down that road. Well, 4.5 years later she was STILL too busy to have a relationship with me for more than a few days per month. Like you said: relationship that went nowhere. And i finally realized thats how she actually wanted it to be!
I'm sorry to say but she was using you, and somehow couldn't respect you. I hope you find respect for yourself to set the terms for how you are ok with being treated, taking a closer look at expectations, and having the dignity to not give into something which does not reciprocate. Addressing ones own fears helps a lot.
I'm crying watching this. I'm an avoidant but I genuinely thought that this is normal. I thought him wanting to spend 3-4 days a week with me was a lot and as if I'm making a compromise.
I wish I knew this 2.5 years ago. I look back now and he is like a storm that came through and forever changed my life landscape and disappeared into nothingness. I’m trying to put my life and everything that is beautiful back together. So devastating….
This is exactly what I’m going through now something always felt off he wanted separate holidays never let me meet his friends or other family members apart from his mum he wanted to just clear off every couple of weeks for the week but he wanted it gave up his flat moved in with me and everything he wanted marriage then just before he left he said he never wanted to get married even though he had asked me to marry him 🤷🏼♀️he came through like a passing tornado but was the most loving person I’ve ever come across right up until he left he went to see his brother and never came back and blocked me on everything
Same here almost 3 years! Left my life in ruins for nothing, still trying to grasp that my future is not what he made me believe it would be and I’m on my own again 😭
He asked for a divorce kicked me out of my own house changed the locks took all my stuff from my house. And this jerk is dragging me through the court system. He just won't settle and keeps asking for parenting time yet disperse for years comes back and disappears again. Aviodant run away from them. The whole marriage sucked. Stay away from these empty devils
@@sarahwood5346 I’m only 3 weeks in I feel your pain I’ve never experienced this before he too made me feel like we was forever the saddest part is I used to see the love in his eyes for me he literally left everything behind everything he possesses and walked he is now at a family members with nothing he left a few days after our first Valentine’s Day together he even wrote in the card he loves me more than I’ll ever know 😔 and no matter what he would never leave me he pre planned to go and see his brother the week before and I’ll never forget the night before he seemed so happy was that to see his brother or because he was getting out I feel like a fool
I just don't get how avoidants turned out like this to a degree of lack of awareness. I feel like I had an extremely emotionally invalidating childhood, I was not hugged or asked about my feelings often. Then traumatic sexual experience and abusive relationships but I was still FA. Even if I couldn't communicate my feelings I still tried. When I was more avoidant , not to the degree some people are so extremely boring and rigid. I honestly think emotional intelligence, general curiosity and empathy plays a huge role in how we adapt to attachment trauma.
Exactly. They must see their patterns? I think that’s what hooks people a lot of the time, they see the DA and reason their actions away, they get a pass because that’s just how they are, maybe they will learn or care to try, maybe they want to change. Uh no. It’s a miracle if they do the work. My 60yo DA coworker tells me, I got a head start in my 30s, she’s still working on herself. I’m afraid most DAs will stay DAs for their entire life. But I always wondered if at the end they will realize they should have done it differently or tried to work on themselves. I understand some DAs do start early, but they are the exception. I love learning about myself, I don’t understand people that don’t like understanding their own behavior.
I also find it weird that they might like movies and a lot of these scenarios were like the most romantic variations and elements of relationships are modeled; like I understand, not getting that as a child, but then escaping into Shoals and movies and then being presented with the ideal and not picking up on how different their relationships are, you would think they would try to model the positive behavior at least on TV
@@svetikchum6988 I can only speak for myself, obviously, but at least to me 'modelling my dating life based on TV' is the same as modelling my life based on Harry Potter. The romantic scenarios on TV are so far away from my real-life reality, that they just seem that, a Harry Potter level of fantasy. It doesn't even actually cross your mind it COULD even be attainable in real life.
@@svetikchum6988 they do model the behavior on tv. It's the romantic/ surface level aspects only though. This is why they're usually charming people at the beginning (based on what I've read and also personally experienced). Some of them probably if they ever brave being authentic will not choose to do nearly half of the cool, charming, nice things that they've done in times past, once healed because they may feel more relaxed and also relieved not having to overcompensate now that they no longer have to deactivate, etc. And if you're their partner, you might have to reconsider the 'changes' that you're begging for because then you may not like the authentic side of who they are now that they can live in their truth. I'm not saying that they would possibly become an entirely different person but they might become far more assertive, or less romantic, etc., compared to the past. So do be careful and mindful of what you ask for.
Seeing once or twice a week sounds outlandish to me. Mine would only see me once every two weeks. And even then we couldn't usually plan. Said she was so busy with work and didn't want to plan her leisure time. So I would have to wait until Wed/Thu to know if she would be available over the weekend. I can do seldom dates with planning or frequent dates spontaneously, but seldom and spontaneously doesn't work for me.
That's why it's best to date people you're compatible with. No one should stay in any dynamic where they feel unfulfilled nor should they expect the other person to change for them.
I met someone who if I asked her out on Weds for the weekend would say "Lets talk on Friday". I thought Ok, I asked you out then you can let me know. Nope She expected me to call her back to check in and see if she was too busy for me. That is like a second helping of rejection. If I waited for her to reach out - well that wasn't going to happen. The only positive is when you give up there is nobody asking questions. There is nobody on the other side.
@@ronj9448 Jfc that sounds exactly like my ex. "Let's talk on Friday." Well I would usually reach out but I am a 100% sure she would not have reached out to me. Because she almost never took the initiative even when it by all accounts was her "turn". The one time she asked me out was when I had something she wanted that I had procured for her.
They do want something. They probably do want a relationship but not in the typical sense but will not disclose this because it requires the other person to become a shell of themselves and sacrifice a healthy sense of self-worth if they have it and the Avoidant knows that if they came right out and stated their 'actual' behaviors vs what they desire but actually behave like instead then most people would avoid them. But they don't do this- so this is why they continue to get dismissed just like they dismiss. When you fail to see the other person's perspective then don't expect them to see yours. Just because the Avoidant was hurt, doesn't give them a pass to hurt others whether it was intentional or not. Over time, it's not unintentional because they know it's a pattern. After a few unsuccessful relationships where the same issues arise, they know what is problematic but they continue dating others and then jump on threads like this seeking sympathy? You don't deserve sympathy when you're MANIPULATIVE, seeking an excuse to continue to do damage because you don't want to be EITHER HONEST about who you are, OR you don't want to heal. Either one of these should be done or stop dating because otherwise, in the next 10 years- there will be a strong ANTI SYMPATHY DO NOT DATE "STUBBORN" AVOIDANTS movement.
They do want something. To be Entertained for the moment. Once reality sets in, they don't want to be there any longer. They like to engage at will. What they what is the power to know They can pull strings when they feel they want to.
Wow. I'm earned secure - used to be very FA and I find 6 texts in the morning excessive. I feel like I have the same texting needs and frequency of seeing someone aligning exactly with the DA. To me it seems excessively needy to text 6 times in a day, never mind a morning. I am probably more independent than most people but it's a surprise to see that my needs differ that much from the average.
Earned secure and former FA leaning DA here as well. My communication needs align more with DAs as well. Duh, I guess. As long as there is enough consistency and security in the relationship, I also don't see the need to be communicating all day. I would send memes and other funny stuff every now and then, though. I guess this is why even as an FA and a strong avoidant myself before, I've always been more comfortable dating avoidants rather than anxious preoccupied people. Even in friendships, I'm more comfortable with people who are either secure or avoidant-leaning.
I’m currently working through disorganized/FA attachment style. I was more anxiously attached in my teens to early adult life, then went super avoidant, and my most two recent connections brought out the anxious side again. I don’t know if the guy I was dating is an avoidant or if he’s secure & it was all the other factors that were at play, but he would consistently text me every day, either to ask me to hang out later that day, or to ask me how my day was going, have a brief convo and that was it. I realized that is not enough for me. I don’t want someone who’s texting me all day, but anytime they think of me or get reminded of me, send a little blurb… send me a song you’re listening to… call me to chat for a while… I’m a “sapiosexual” so communicating is big to me in my relationships.
Maybe try dating another person with an anxious attachment? One of the biggest things I see on these threads are AP's or FA's who keep dating avoidants and want them to adopt the way that they want them to treat them, but that's not exactly how it works. If you want someone who aligns with you then you shouldn't date someone who is the opposite of you. You never see people who lean anxious talking about their anxious partner and I wonder why that is. I'm a healing FA and can't date AP's or anyone who has anxious tendencies. Do you find that you do this too? Avoidants and I speak the same language and I don't need or want a ton of extra communication, but if I did, I would probably date someone who isn't avoidant.
Doesn't sound anxiously attached but rather you want text or messages that have a bit more "meat" to them. I could be misreading that. So you're looking for someone who is an avid communicator. I'm sort of like that and I gravitated towards Literature Teachers or similar. Accountants would drive me batty.
I tried explaining, rephrasing, being patient, communicating expectations and boundaries. I might as well be talking to wall. For severely avoidant people like my ex who avoid any self reflection or vulnerability explaining yourself is a waste of time. My ex called attachment theory a psychological bullshit, so there you go. If you date someone like that the only option to save yourself from dying a slow death is to leave.
@@spiritwanderer777 Agreed. We have to understand how this looks so selfish of 'us' to encourage this although we mean well. You certainly can't allow yourself to shrink. They want to have the perks of a relationship of convenience at our expense. What you fell for is an image (which happens across the board many times but Avoidants are rather strategic because they have already learned pleasing ways given whatever situation(s) caused them to become Avoidant). So this is what draws most of their romantic partners to them because we think 'ala, finally, someone who is really dope, nice, etc., etc.,' which they are also well aware as pretty elusive to find/ encounter so until you see the deactivating strategies, etc., then it's a go. But at this level, after learning so much- you start to realize it's a strategy from the beginning. They are seeking someone willing to conform, contort themselves for them. I say that some actually do find it. So, again- it's considered selfish of us, as far as they see it.
@@shanb7306 you are right, i fell for an image presented for me during love bombing phase and when i finally saw the true self i refused to believe it and tried to change it because of my own fear of abandonment at that time. it is heartwrenching sad to see how many avoidants ruin good people's hearts with selfish self-centered deactivating and coping strategies. i want norhing to do with them. in my opinion they are equally bad choice as narcissists. they may see me leaving as selfish, i call it self love because you have to love yourself to stop abandoning your dreams, needs, desires, your vision of who you want to be.
@@spiritwanderer777 It takes time to heal and get past this for many. Let the healing run its course- that's all you can do at best. I feel that when you are a genuinely good person, your ways will eventually break through to even an Avoidant although it'll be too late for them. Even if they don't care to acknowledge the rare standout that you were to/ for them, it doesn't matter. Like you said- you have dreams, needs, desires but most importantly 'your vision of who you want to be,' and you also have a 'vision' for a romantic relationship that you've desired for a time. Change on their end is required if they want a relationship with you bad enough. I don't care how many people are on this planet- not everyone is replaceable. They can settle all they want to (I've seen this happen so many times with exes) but it usually doesn't last. In my past dating relationship with an Avoidant; he actually tried to break up after our first couple of dates, stating that he couldn't meet my needs. And I thought he was really talking about having a demanding job, and not having enough time to cultivate a relationship so I asked him about 'compromising,' to which he stated, 'there is no compromise.' Again- I'm just lost right because he's not explaining what he literally means by saying any of this. So, I forget how we moved past that but the 'yo yo'ing' and inconsistencies along with the ghosting episodes magnified but he was always sweet when he came around & even asked me about becoming exclusive only to tell me later that he wanted to pursue a goal that he had and he felt that he needed to have space in which to pursue it but it was for an indefinite amount of time. Initially, I was trying to support it but like you said- you have goals, etc. And I started thinking about how this was getting me off track, far from the goals I'd had in mind for a romantic relationship. Despite the nice efforts when he came around, the nice words, and all of the other unique attributes to him, and his willingness to give certain insights about his avoidance- it was just too much given that he didn't need to change as far as he saw it and still sees it. I just was upset because I met him after being intentionally mindful, practicing Mindfulness and manifesting, being careful about vetting as I could and even celibate for 3 years, only for him to show up. It was quite the FML or heart experience. And although I'm doing way way better, I'm still asking myself why and WTF?!! Because my parents have been married 52 years and although my father's a definite narc no question about it; they have and I know what it costs but this guy is outwardly so different than my Dad and I've seen him dysregulated, etc. I know he's an Avoidant but I never knew these kind of people existed. I never knew that there was such a fear to deal with emotions, avoid them actually. If I tried to avoid my emotions especially in a romantic situation; I think it'd be the epic failure. I'm very in tune with my feelings even the uncomfortable ones. So, it's hard to imagine someone being emotionally inept, emotionally stunted, yet bold in other areas but afraid of love as an adult.
Yeah I was with a dismissive avoidant for three years and it was the go away, then come back and not taking accountability that killed it mostly for me. The final blow was a deal breaker for me when I asked if they wanted to be with or date someone else be upfront and I will move aside. Had a lot of practice with that when dealing with them. She agreed and then went ahead and started dating someone else without saying a word anyway. Miss have her cake and eat it too.
DAs will tell you what you want to hear, then do whatever they want. When confronted, they will blame you and emotionally shut down. Don’t waste your time.
Thanks. Informative video. Touching on childhood conditioning, it seems parents are less available to their children than it was historically, and this is increasing. Certainly, both parents working and children being in crèches or daycare are adding to this. What can be done to cause change at a society level? We need to make the world better for future generations. It would be great to have a video on this topic if possible.
So beautifully put and very true. That to me is a very crucially important message/ comment. When I was a child back in 70s/ 80s, I remember hearing there was this thing called big brothers/ big sisters. Seems like society is not set up to help and support people in healthy growth. Too much division. Not enough love.
How can a mother & father have a healthy relationship with each other and with their children if they are constantly working just to possibly pay bills, survive,and many not even getting enough sleep in that process. Sleep, proper diet, exercise are so incredibly important for physical & mental health. This is for the whole families.
@@JacobCarlson-uq1my Very true, Jacob, and well said. In the past, there was a bigger circle of support and community was important. Not only biological, but others also played the role of brother and sister. As time went by, families were increasingly isolated, and community spirit was gone. Today, people seem more alone than ever. As you point out, mother and father are working to pay the bills and the entire family unit suffers. Yet the whole tendency of our society, with its materialism, praise of over-work, and high cost of everything, pushes people in this direction---dare I say to be a gear in the system. Something is wrong.
I don't have a problem adapting to DAs, nor going the secure route (I might get a bit annoyed by APs, and it's a double edged sword with FAs). But what I do have a problem with and what I find really hard is figuring out what attachment style someone is before it becomes obvious. And when it becomes obvious, it's usually too late.
After starting PDS, I was able to call it out REAL fast. I can go back to every past relationship and see the signs I missed. Now that I'm more healed, it's more obvious.
@@The_Whimsical_Avoidant and are you able to adapt without talking about it directly with them? I prefer direct communication, especially after an FA that drove me nuts with not wanting to be direct and me having to guess everything 🥴 I know SAs should be direct at least when asked, not sure about DAs (I mean, I know Thais says they will be direct when asked, but I'm not sure if that will drive them away too).
I say ask them to take the quiz and then you know. Same with the love languages. Take the test then we can really talk about what one wants from the relationship. I'm not big on guessing.
@@eloisemarie5219 it's great if it works for you! But that doesn't really fall under figuring it out on your own, and I'm not gonna make/ask people to take the test in the first month of knowing them. As for the love languages, I don't think that requires a test. That's not that deep of a thing in terms of vulnerability and self awareness, so people don't have a problem answering that or even mentioning it on their own from my experience. Maybe not directly saying "hey, these are my love languages", but they say it in other ways if you listen. But still, great if it works for you :)
A lot of the manosphere advice is geared towards being more avoidant. I can see the lure as familiarty can become unseductive. However it's really about building a safe emotional connection, and understanding maskuline feminine dynamics.
I’m an FA and the DA (I’m no longer talking to) and I texted each other all day long when we weren’t on breaks. Lol. It was very codependent that way. We only saw each other every 2 or 4 weeks due to long distance. We hardly ever talked on the phone.
Amazing content. Thank you for kindly sharing this insight! I wish I found you before ending my last relationship. At the least I now have the conscious knowledge to be a better partner. ❤
For almost 2 years my DA ex was loved up and happy to see me 3 to 4 days a week including activities on the weekend. Then almost over night, after some rocky relationship turbulence, she wanted to wind it down to once a week, she asked this while we were having a tense discussion and of course I freaked out! I saw this as her beginning to deactivate and making moves to run… which she did a months later, I didn’t help the situation becoming very anxious, super unusual because I’m typically a very regulated and secure person. She just meant a lot I think. Anyway! A really good tip for seeing more of your avoidant in a low admin, scheduled manner is to do the “stay at mine, stay at yours” thing. For me even just once or twice a week, coming over after dinner around 8 or 9, for a movie and chat and bed was good, quality time - make it scheduled because they feel safe with that and it’s a chill way of squeezing more time out of them👌
I know he's a DA but sometimes it's still confusing. Usually we meet once a week, but now haven't seen eachother for about 3 weeks. I'm always the one who's initiating texting, every 2-4 days. Maybe it's his deactivating strategy. But he told me 3 weeks ago he want to go on vacation with me. Still don't know if I still should try to reach out or if I should just stop texting and see, if he's initiating it.
This is interesting because I use the "must knows" list in the early stages of dating and the "exercises" list in the relationship stage. Although, I admit I let the woman decide whether or not she wants to take things to the relationship stage.
Your photo to me on PDS signals the universally outspoken DA rep hahahah every time I see it I’m like oh there he is again. I’m like, what’s he gonna say.. is he gonna scrap with some AP’s.. or pull out a pulpit and regale us with some stories from his past relationships.😂🥰 I also read your name for some reason as ‘stfu’ which sort of adds to the persona.. Sorry I just had to call myself out for internet fanning you. Actually I’m not sure if I’m a fan 100% more like neutral… it’s a lot, but I do enjoy it.
@@Kinteresting haha, thanks for the compliment! When I started watching Thais's videos I figured I was an avoidant because so many of the attributes resonated with me. However the ghosting, canceled plans, and on again off again relationship attributes didn't resonate with me at all (I hate when people do those things). I took her test along with three others and tested secure for all except one (which I tested avoidant). I still resonate with those DA attributes (I also don't discuss feelings or any of that stuff) so I figured I'd continue sharing in the hopes it resonates with someone, lol. As for the name Sifu (CEEFUU), it's the title they use for teachers of Chinese martial arts (I'm actually a Kung Fu teacher). Think Sensei (the title used for Japanese martial arts) for Kung Fu, lol.
If I've been understanding of a DAs differences yet the relationship still doesn't feel fulfilling (he tries to accommodate more time, more texts etc but his communications are still lacking depth, it's like he is fulfilling what I've asked like it's a check box ☑️ ), then do you think 1) this relationship just isn't right for me, or 2) do I have work to do! Or 3)......?
Sounds like you’re just not compatible…I liked a DA last year and as much as there was something there his communication style or lack of vocabulary which is important to me was not there. Whereas another guy I’ve been talking to now has the exact type of expression and very easy to talk to. Depends what you are willing to accept I guess 🤷♀️
Agree with the commenter above. You're incompatible. I happen to like dating avoidants, but if I'm in a position where I have to ask someone to meet my needs when it doesn't come natural to them, I'm just good. I feel like I'm a chore to them. I'd rather be alone.
I'm 14 months into the relationship. Some of his behaviors were weird, and hard to explain. He would call me every day, texting every day. I saw him on weekends. He met my friends and some family. I didn't meet anyone from his life. So, I asked about it. He started talking about his dead parents and aunts in different countries. I said, how about your children? They are home with you this week (14 and 15 years old. He got defensive, and raised his voice. All of that over the phone. I was calm and spoke with a soft voice, told him that love him... Today is day 8 of no contact. This is not the first time I get silence treatment but this is the first time that I won't reach out first. Before, I would wait about a week and reach out first. Not this time. I don't pray for him to contact me. I'm using the time to completely detach. Btw, I have a secure attachment style.
If they don’t they are a dismissing ve avoid, yet the show all the signs you mention, how do you tell them? If all attachment styles can be changed how, when, where can they work on theirs?
Thais, I wish this video came out about a month ago before I lashed out on my avoidant partner for the lack of communication. Now I feel so bad, dont even know how to fix the issue
You're overestimating your influence. You can't make them change. You can't. And as soon as you're eternally done with them, they will feel comfortable telling you you "were their person" and become one of their eternal regrets. Save yourself the pain. If you're healthy you shouldn't be dating avoidants
Can you do a video on what it’s like to be in a relationship with a DA? Is it worth the wait? Does it get better after the dating and getting-to-know stage?
I tend to defer to your expertise, yet I find myself half agreeing and disagreeing with the things you say about attachment. I mean, in the way that every coin has its flip side. For example, I'm a fearful avoidant attachment type. You propose that this type sees a relationship as two people being separate but coming together from time to time to exchange the fulfillment of their needs, and that that's the wrong way to see a relationship. I think to myself, yes and no, because relationships have a tendency to become containers of power struggle, and that's toxic, and the fundamental way you prevent that from happening is that each person retains enough independence so that can't happen without incurring a great cost on the other person - a chiefly emotional cost but partly economic and reputational, too. That balance also seems necessary for maintaining attraction and interest. Another example is when you said we're slower to warm up. I think, mostly yes, but also no because when I develop feelings for someone I tend to play out a relationship with them in my imagination to the point that emotionally I feel like we're already together, even before I'd confessed my feelings or had a first date. If somebody comes along and dates her before I do, my emotional response may be as if somebody kidnapped my wife. Then reality and the extent of my internal warming up hits me like a truck and I have to reign in my feelings and reaction. Obviously these counterviews have their own failure states opposite of the views they're countering, but a significant amount of their own validity, too. I would be very interested to hear how you'd respond to these things. Thank you for sharing your work, it's very helpful to me.
Dismissive Avoidants match my exact style when it comes to how often we communicate and spend time together. I do like getting sent funny videos and memes throughout the day, but I don't see a need for constant communication. Good morning, good night, hope you had a great day. Then when we see each other we have a week's worth of conversation to catch up on. It's perfect! ❤
Constant communication needs usually come from people who don't have a life outside the relationship itself. When you're in the dating stage, make sure that person you're seeing has a hobby. "If they don't have a relationship outside the relationship, their life will become the relationship."
@@sifublack192 absolutely. I can tell pretty quick if someone is going to be too much. I'm an entrepreneur and business owner who works 7 days a week. You HAVE to have your own life in order to date me. I grew up having men just pop into my work with lunch or flowers or making plans WHILE we were still on the date. I know some people like and need those things, but a little mystery and a little less eagerness is far more attractive.
@@The_Whimsical_Avoidant boy, I wish I could meet someone like you. I to am an entrepreneur and I'm working six days a week. Plus I'm a martial artist training five days a week. My exes never had a life outside the relationship and wanted me around them 24/7. My most recent ex even pushed herself into my business and started giving me ultimatums such as "if you don't do things this way I'll break up with you." She also texted me numerous times throughout the day and got mad if I didn't call her every night knowing I'd work from 5am-8pm some days. I even had exes that wanted me to quit the gym and my martial art training because they thought I was making plans to cheat on or leave them for someone else. 😒 You're right though, show me a little more mystique and excitement instead of the clinginess.
@@sifublack192 I agree that constant communication is too much. My brain is slow and can only take so much. But I think everyone already exists outside a relationship and will continue to do so after it ends. People have to work, run errands, take care of various things. There is family and others to see to. Some work relentlessly that there is no time for hobbies, apart from the occasional film in the evening or relaxation on the weekend. Indeed, romantically, many are alone for years, and are now fed up with that and want closeness and love.
@@GeoffreyAngapa there's a difference between doing day to day things and having a life outside of the relationship. Having a hobby isn't difficult. You can learn a lot if things online these days if you want to. In fact, I have two whole TH-cam channels featuring fitness, martial art, and self defense training people can do right in the comfort of their own home. People who say they don't have time for things are the same people caught up with the latest netflix shows and movies. They have time, it's just not a priority to them. All that said, hobbies INCREASE your ability to find love. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how many friends I've made just going to the local gym a few hours a week. This expands my social circle which increases my dating opportunities exponentially. Love isn't going to just "show up" at your doorstep because you want it to. Stop making excuses and put yourself out there.
In my relationship with my DA boyfriend, I understand and am able to compromise on his few and brief texts and phone calls. However it's the quality, emptiness and depth (or lack thereof) of the responses that I'm struggling with. Is this also a typical/common for DAs due to not wanting to be vulnerable. Or is this perhaps something else? Feedback, thoughts, suggestions welcome. Because I'm getting closer to thinking this relationship might not be fulfilling enough for me to see myself with him as a life-long partner. I'm FA, earned secure. Thank you ❤
Same.... mine is FA or DA or a combo of both. I felt like there was so much depth in his eyes and soul that I couldn’t wait to discover more about him. I felt like there was something so juicy inside but he was just scared to expose himself, and the times where he did he would run away soon after. For months I chased off and on because he had strong feelings for me and he admitted it . But now that i fought to get closer and he’s actually been more available and putting in his version of “effort” lol … he just comes off so boring and flat. Even if he’s being sweet it just feels so surface level and blah. I chased this man for a year and now that I am making progress and we talk regularly I don’t know if he really has enough personality to keep me interested ?? Months ago he kept saying “there’s nothing to crack!! What you see is what you get!!!” I didn’t believe him.. but maybe he was right I feel too scared to bring it up to him because I know he will probably feel criticized or he will make it a “see .. I told you I couldn’t trust you” or “see I told you , you were just being codependent” or “see, I told you I was working on myself and didn’t have the emotions to give to anyone right now” By the way I’m secure.
@@Sarajb517 thank you. Yes I can relate to the depth (or what I thought was depth) in the beginning of our relationship. He was going through something difficult and so open about it, sharing his experience with me, and I thought this is meaningful, a man who can express and talk about his feelings. But now I think it's that he was in so much emotional pain and having someone be present, attentive, caring gave him what he needed ( I'm FA/Secure). I don't think it actually got deeper. Instead I think he shares more when he's in more pain, so I'm maybe in the role of a "therapist" in some way. I'm starting to think I misread the meaning of his ability to share his feelings. I also experience him as flat and uninteresting now.
Secure with a DA leaning attachment style (long story), but perhaps I can help. Most DAs are pretty slow to open up. Asking for too much too soon can be a problem with them. They're pretty logical people and don't spend a lot of time talking about their emotions. That said, I'll give you MY take. This is just an observation, so take it as part of the data rather than an absolute truth. Men don't relate to feelings the same way a woman does. Men have an entirely different relationship to feelings compared to that of women; they don't trust feelings, they trust facts. What matters to men is what he values and what facts he trusts. So instead of asking him how he FEELS about something, ask him what he thinks. You'll learn a LOT more about him by asking him what he THINKS vs how he FEELS.
i was hoping i'd get more clarity about myself... but i can't answer the exercise questions. i'm lost and frozen answering expectation and standards questions. i've dated many people in my life, so the issue isn't a lack of experience... i don't know what the problem is.
She’s saying if that doesn’t meet your needs to request more time together. After the first five weeks they typically want to spend more time together if they feel safe
@@Greenwitch_Garden unfortunately that ship has sailed. I’ve moved on. Going to send her the pictures we took together before I delete them. It was a good phase we had together
All of the bitter people out there shading avoidants - common sense, and Thais, are always clear - working on things with an avoidant only brings progress if theyre AWARE and COOPERATING to a degree. Of course if they dont know or dont care that they're avoidant, they're not going to play ball with you. And I'm saying this as an anxiously attached person. You really have to learn to differentiate what it is that avoidants do thats targeted at you specifically (which is hardly anything a lot of the time), and what are your own insecurities being amplified back at you when you let yourself drown in your emotions when youre triggered in the relationship dynamic
Agree to awareness, disagree to projection, if ur ap how would you feel by them deactivating for weeks ? Lack of communication? Thats not perception thats based in reality; insecurity would be they communicated they need space a reasonable amount and that they are invested in the relationship and you still project; not that when they shut down out of the blue
@svetikchum6988 I think you missed my point. An avoidant who is aware and working on themselves would NOT be repeatedly deactivating for weeks. They may do it once or twice, but if you've done your best getting your needs across, explaining to them what it does to the relationship and to you as an anxious person, and they STILL deactivate for weeks? That is NOT a cooperative avoidant. I am saying this an an anxious person in a 9 month relationship so far with an avoidant. We are both aware and working on things together. Deactivation (i.e going radio silent with no warning and not responding to attempts to be contacted) has only happened twice, both times for just two to three days. If it happened for weeks? I may be anxious but I am WALKING. That is clearly a far, far more traumatised or uncaring person than I could EVER be
How freaking long is it gonna take for it to sink in that this will only end in PAIN…. IF she does come back. I don’t wanna learn this lesson an even harder way, my God I don’t know if I could help myself.
All day every day texting feels like alot. I'd take once a week in person and 2 phone calls and few texts over alot of texts daily. But I've been FA leaning anxious before I knew what I know now. Sigh.
All day every day texting is indeed a lot but what you're describing is more of a fwb/situationship sort of relationship. I mean if you're in a relationship you call and meet much more often than that
oh, interesting. i'm very much a DA and i don't believe i have these restrictive rules around texts and phone calls. i love talking. i will talk for hours, message you whatever, double/triple/quadruple text, answer you straight away. however as soon as it becomes some sort of like, mandatory relationship tithe i must perform in order to keep your ego happy i don't want to do it at all. although this doesn't often happen, only when someone has become unhappy with me for whatever myriad reason, they hit me with all those "good morning" type texts where my response is being pass/fail examined for like romantically appropriate affection/timing or whatever. idk i hate all these fucking unspoken rules everyone has. i hate these stupid impossible games, it makes me SO insecure.
What if your partner texts you “I need you”? Does that scare you off? And not because they’re feeling clingy or whatever but maybe because they just need some reassurance or have gone through something rough and would like your support as their special person. Is that too much for a person like you (DA)?
@@atmodlee personally, i don't know what "i need you" means and that phrasing alone worries me a bit. it is my honour to be invited to share the burden of a hard time with someone and i generally will not ignore someone who wants to talk through stuff with me. however a trait DAs seem to share is we don't understand having "needs" and we grew up being shaming for trying to share our burdens with others so i think a lot of us can (unfairly) resent people who look to others too much for support. the behaviour associated with that seems to exist on a spectrum. for me it's just that i get fed up with/triggered by anyone who leans on me and ONLY me, doesn't listen to or action any of my advice or accept any of my practical help, someone who doesn't communicate ever if our talk was helpful in any way. i think an actionable method you can take when dealing with a DA who balks at your needs is to be specific with what you're wanting. so rather than "i need you right now" i'd prefer to hear something like "i had the worst day, can i talk through it with you? it always helps me to get your perspective on stuff/to just spit it all out to someone/ have a big cry and a hug". it really breaks my heart when people think DAs don't care. i think we all know we are deficient when it comes to supporting people and we feel a ton of shame and guilt for that. i think when people understand us and set us up for success by being specific about needs/wants you will be rewarded with a ride or die homie who will deeply understand your troubles, aquainted as we are with the dark side of life often. we are abused children after all. sorry for the essay, hope this helps though.
@@partypartymonsterOh my gosh. This a million times over. I’m a DA too. Also, a girl. Which I think is relevant bc people in my life are perplexed that I am this way? Like, as a woman, I should be really good at meeting emotional needs + fostering relationships + emotional availability? I believe many (if not most) DAs are wracked with guilt over this emotional/relational deficiency of ours. Personally, I want nothing more than the people I love to have everything they need. I just don’t know how to be that. No one else was that for me. I knew my emotional needs were not going to be met by anyone else, and I made “peace” with that. If I were to ask someone I’m in relationship with to help me get my needs met, I wouldn’t event know where to begin. I have no concept of what that looks like. I think the same is true for a lot of DAs. Thais has explained this really well and given helpful tools to remedy this issue but it’s hard not to shutdown/freak out if this situation pops up. My gut reaction to “I need you” is “Ahh why are you asking me? How could I possibly help you?! I can’t even help myself!” Especially over text because if you’re face-to-face you can physically comfort someone. But over text? The stress and pressure of “how on earth could my words make you feel better? It’s more likely that I could say the wrong thing and make you feel even worse”
Normal people reading might say that this (DA) response is kind of selfish. We should get over our discomfort with failure and attempt to say something, anything comforting. And to deal with the response to our attempt maturely. Whether the response is positive or negative. I think this ties in with a perfectionism wound and/or the fear of putting ourselves out there. Something else I think DAs commonly struggle with.
@@rgold_ indeed. i am sure people don't understand what this "discomfort" feels like. it feels so dark and shameful. sometimes it's like my programming takes over and i just don't have access to higher thoughts. although i am getting so much better with practice i think. (i practice with my friends! call off the sniper, jilted ex-lovers of DAs in the comments)
If it isn't important, once a day is plenty. Not important is: what someone said or did at work. Unless it negatively affects your life and you want my help fixing. Don't call unless someone died.
For some of us, conversation and _sharing_ *is* connection. Example: You're a part of my life and I baked an awesome loaf of bread. I want to _share_ that personal victory with you, so I shoot you a text. Projecting _my_ perception as an AA onto it, if I _received_ this kind of text, I would take that text as a positive bid and see it as a good thing. Cool, they want to invite me into their life and are sharing this with me. And, I get to support them and show caring in that way. I'll tell them how it looks great and I can't wait to try some. So I text back that it's great. Now I feel a bit closer to this person, amd safer in the relationship. What I've learmed from a couple avoidant friends (and one I recently just let go because they are truly unhealthy and will not get help) is the avoidant feels like this kind of text is this huge pain in the ass, oh my god, another text to answer, ugh, this person is taking up my time. As an AA, that attitude is deeply hurtful and VERY hard not to take personally. Even more hurtful is the leaving kind, caring, well-intentioned messages on read. It's like reaching to hug someone and they literally ignore you or just walk away. Their _actions_ (or non-action, often) seem to say, "I don't care about you, your life, your attempt to share with me, and you are here to interact with _only_ at _my_ convenience and at _my_ will on _my_ terms." It has taken me a LOT of work to walk the line between being honest about my comms needs while still respecting their need for space. Being totally blunt about it is key. Like, "I'm OK if you only want to hang out once a week, but I'd like to maybe chat on the phone, too, a couple times a week." The problem is most DAs just walk away the millisecond the relationship needs this (reasonable) amount of "work." They really do live with this expectation of every person being like psychic and just "knowing" what they want/need. It's where their "perfect partner" or "the one" cognitive distortion come into play. It is so easy to fall back into the mindset as an Anxious Preoccupied that you are this horrid, needy, awful, clingy, too-much person for asking for basic connection (and honestly, in many cases, it's just basic _manners_ ; it is objectively rude to straight up ignore people). And you probably _are_ a bit too demanding and clingy (I know I was; still super cringe looking back at my behaviors from ~ 2 years ago; ugh and yikes!). But you DO get to ensure _some_ of your needs are met, too. Just trying to answer your question, hopes this helps.
You're missing the point... with a normal well-adjusted person that you get along with, there is no need to regulate conversation - it happens naturally: you'll post X and they'll either laugh if it's a joke, meme whatever, or discuss back if it's a serious topic. You might be busy, but a response such as "LOL - up to my arz in work, catch you later" is all it takes. The DA/FA will just ignore you - because they are so up their own arze they enjoy making you feel like a sap for daring to want to communicate with them. THEY are the abnormal ones, not you. Normal people enjoy communicating with people they like enough to be in a relationship with. And that's the crux: you are not in a relationship with these people - you're just being used, either for validation, or sex, or just so they can say they snagged you because they're so unworthy - their reasons can be anything, from selfishness to mental illness, but the end result is the same: you're wasting your time because they are incapable of normal human interactions.
@@Shutzie27 we don't ignore texts because we don't care or because we want a relationship at our convenience. It's because the texts literally feel like they are sucking our energy, and we don't have the spoons to take care of all your needs on top of ours. As selfish as you think da's are being, we think you're just a selfish by always asking for our time and attention without respecting our boundaries. You're not sending that text because you care about us. If you did, you would know enough to leave us alone. You're sending it because you want validation, and we don't have the energy to give it to you 24/7.
@@hueyandmo I think I said that in paragraph four of my response. And again, what you perceive as "validation" is what we often see as closeness. I can't be physically affectionate or intimate with someone who comes into my life, _takes_ those things, doesn't ask about my life or share information, and then disappears for days on end. Like, what? How does that create emotional connection or safety. Also, validation is actually a pretty OK and normal thing to both GIVE and RECEIVE in a relationship. (Though yes, APs have healing to do in that a _constant_ need for reassurance is unhealthy.)
@@hueyandmo 100%. People are out here dating people they are incompatible with and think that because their way of dating and communicating is the "normal way" that everyone else needs to succumb to their way of thinking. There is literally no right or wrong way of how much communicating a couple should be doing, but like the person who posted the comment, I don't personally understand why people want or "need" to talk to one person all of the time. What did they do before the relationship? I honestly won't even date someone who doesn't have their own life, hobbies and social circle they regularly talk with because I know that person with become codependent on me and that's extremely unhealthy.
It's not fun with life destroying carnage due to the unconsciousness out there. Why it's becoming a science now to deal with the growing pool of avoidants. It's about dealing with the lack of integrity. Would you go into a war zone unprepared?
Involved with an avoidant = enjoy the non-relationship that's going nowhere, and will finish overnight the moment you call them out on their nonsense.
Don't be a sap, listen to your gut, and walk away the first time you think that you should
So true 😢
exactly my point of view. enough to see the above dismissive comments to understand that they actually DONT even understand the point, there is no point for them because basically there is no relationship with them
EXACTLY! My gf of 5 years recently broke up with me over email (!) because i finally got angry about us not seeing eachother more than a couple days every two weeks. (And even that i could've muddled by with... except that she didnt seem to care if we talked at all in that timeframe. It was usually left to me to initiate that, and she would even get judgy if i did it too often).
I was actually looking for rings after the 1st half-year. I held off because her life was hectic and figured when things finally settled down a bit we'd go down that road. Well, 4.5 years later she was STILL too busy to have a relationship with me for more than a few days per month.
Like you said: relationship that went nowhere. And i finally realized thats how she actually wanted it to be!
I'm sorry to say but she was using you, and somehow couldn't respect you.
I hope you find respect for yourself to set the terms for how you are ok with being treated, taking a closer look at expectations, and having the dignity to not give into something which does not reciprocate.
Addressing ones own fears helps a lot.
Exactly
I'm crying watching this. I'm an avoidant but I genuinely thought that this is normal. I thought him wanting to spend 3-4 days a week with me was a lot and as if I'm making a compromise.
Secure relationships often get to the point where both people want to spend every day together, and text/call to stay in contact when they’re apart.
You shouldn't cry, you should be ashamed
@@jacopofbargellini4005u should be ashamed of this comment. Behave urself.
@@AliceInHiding here is another fucking avoidant
It's not normal, no
I wish I knew this 2.5 years ago. I look back now and he is like a storm that came through and forever changed my life landscape and disappeared into nothingness. I’m trying to put my life and everything that is beautiful back together. So devastating….
2.5 years? Wow. Keep watching these videos they are very therapeutic for helping you to heal and move on. Blessings MayVue.
This is exactly what I’m going through now something always felt off he wanted separate holidays never let me meet his friends or other family members apart from his mum he wanted to just clear off every couple of weeks for the week but he wanted it gave up his flat moved in with me and everything he wanted marriage then just before he left he said he never wanted to get married even though he had asked me to marry him 🤷🏼♀️he came through like a passing tornado but was the most loving person I’ve ever come across right up until he left he went to see his brother and never came back and blocked me on everything
Same here almost 3 years! Left my life in ruins for nothing, still trying to grasp that my future is not what he made me believe it would be and I’m on my own again 😭
He asked for a divorce kicked me out of my own house changed the locks took all my stuff from my house. And this jerk is dragging me through the court system. He just won't settle and keeps asking for parenting time yet disperse for years comes back and disappears again. Aviodant run away from them. The whole marriage sucked. Stay away from these empty devils
@@sarahwood5346 I’m only 3 weeks in I feel your pain I’ve never experienced this before he too made me feel like we was forever the saddest part is I used to see the love in his eyes for me he literally left everything behind everything he possesses and walked he is now at a family members with nothing he left a few days after our first Valentine’s Day together he even wrote in the card he loves me more than I’ll ever know 😔 and no matter what he would never leave me he pre planned to go and see his brother the week before and I’ll never forget the night before he seemed so happy was that to see his brother or because he was getting out I feel like a fool
I just don't get how avoidants turned out like this to a degree of lack of awareness. I feel like I had an extremely emotionally invalidating childhood, I was not hugged or asked about my feelings often. Then traumatic sexual experience and abusive relationships but I was still FA. Even if I couldn't communicate my feelings I still tried. When I was more avoidant , not to the degree some people are so extremely boring and rigid. I honestly think emotional intelligence, general curiosity and empathy plays a huge role in how we adapt to attachment trauma.
Exactly. They must see their patterns? I think that’s what hooks people a lot of the time, they see the DA and reason their actions away, they get a pass because that’s just how they are, maybe they will learn or care to try, maybe they want to change. Uh no. It’s a miracle if they do the work. My 60yo DA coworker tells me, I got a head start in my 30s, she’s still working on herself. I’m afraid most DAs will stay DAs for their entire life. But I always wondered if at the end they will realize they should have done it differently or tried to work on themselves. I understand some DAs do start early, but they are the exception.
I love learning about myself, I don’t understand people that don’t like understanding their own behavior.
I also find it weird that they might like movies and a lot of these scenarios were like the most romantic variations and elements of relationships are modeled; like I understand, not getting that as a child, but then escaping into Shoals and movies and then being presented with the ideal and not picking up on how different their relationships are, you would think they would try to model the positive behavior at least on TV
@@svetikchum6988 I can only speak for myself, obviously, but at least to me 'modelling my dating life based on TV' is the same as modelling my life based on Harry Potter. The romantic scenarios on TV are so far away from my real-life reality, that they just seem that, a Harry Potter level of fantasy. It doesn't even actually cross your mind it COULD even be attainable in real life.
@@svetikchum6988 they do model the behavior on tv. It's the romantic/ surface level aspects only though. This is why they're usually charming people at the beginning (based on what I've read and also personally experienced). Some of them probably if they ever brave being authentic will not choose to do nearly half of the cool, charming, nice things that they've done in times past, once healed because they may feel more relaxed and also relieved not having to overcompensate now that they no longer have to deactivate, etc. And if you're their partner, you might have to reconsider the 'changes' that you're begging for because then you may not like the authentic side of who they are now that they can live in their truth. I'm not saying that they would possibly become an entirely different person but they might become far more assertive, or less romantic, etc., compared to the past. So do be careful and mindful of what you ask for.
Dismissive people, even here below, say all time "give me space give me time". At the end they have all of it, ending alone. Great strategy!
Seeing once or twice a week sounds outlandish to me. Mine would only see me once every two weeks. And even then we couldn't usually plan. Said she was so busy with work and didn't want to plan her leisure time. So I would have to wait until Wed/Thu to know if she would be available over the weekend.
I can do seldom dates with planning or frequent dates spontaneously, but seldom and spontaneously doesn't work for me.
That's why it's best to date people you're compatible with. No one should stay in any dynamic where they feel unfulfilled nor should they expect the other person to change for them.
YEP!!!!!!!!!!!!
I met someone who if I asked her out on Weds for the weekend would say "Lets talk on Friday". I thought Ok, I asked you out then you can let me know. Nope She expected me to call her back to check in and see if she was too busy for me. That is like a second helping of rejection. If I waited for her to reach out - well that wasn't going to happen. The only positive is when you give up there is nobody asking questions. There is nobody on the other side.
@@ronj9448 Jfc that sounds exactly like my ex. "Let's talk on Friday." Well I would usually reach out but I am a 100% sure she would not have reached out to me. Because she almost never took the initiative even when it by all accounts was her "turn".
The one time she asked me out was when I had something she wanted that I had procured for her.
Just don’t date avoidants. They act like they want something but in the end they don’t
They do want something. They probably do want a relationship but not in the typical sense but will not disclose this because it requires the other person to become a shell of themselves and sacrifice a healthy sense of self-worth if they have it and the Avoidant knows that if they came right out and stated their 'actual' behaviors vs what they desire but actually behave like instead then most people would avoid them. But they don't do this- so this is why they continue to get dismissed just like they dismiss. When you fail to see the other person's perspective then don't expect them to see yours. Just because the Avoidant was hurt, doesn't give them a pass to hurt others whether it was intentional or not. Over time, it's not unintentional because they know it's a pattern. After a few unsuccessful relationships where the same issues arise, they know what is problematic but they continue dating others and then jump on threads like this seeking sympathy? You don't deserve sympathy when you're MANIPULATIVE, seeking an excuse to continue to do damage because you don't want to be EITHER HONEST about who you are, OR you don't want to heal. Either one of these should be done or stop dating because otherwise, in the next 10 years- there will be a strong ANTI SYMPATHY DO NOT DATE "STUBBORN" AVOIDANTS movement.
They do want something. To be Entertained for the moment. Once reality sets in, they don't want to be there any longer. They like to engage at will. What they what is the power to know They can pull strings when they feel they want to.
@@shanb7306so true
Wow. I'm earned secure - used to be very FA and I find 6 texts in the morning excessive. I feel like I have the same texting needs and frequency of seeing someone aligning exactly with the DA. To me it seems excessively needy to text 6 times in a day, never mind a morning. I am probably more independent than most people but it's a surprise to see that my needs differ that much from the average.
Earned secure and former FA leaning DA here as well. My communication needs align more with DAs as well. Duh, I guess. As long as there is enough consistency and security in the relationship, I also don't see the need to be communicating all day. I would send memes and other funny stuff every now and then, though. I guess this is why even as an FA and a strong avoidant myself before, I've always been more comfortable dating avoidants rather than anxious preoccupied people. Even in friendships, I'm more comfortable with people who are either secure or avoidant-leaning.
I’m currently working through disorganized/FA attachment style. I was more anxiously attached in my teens to early adult life, then went super avoidant, and my most two recent connections brought out the anxious side again.
I don’t know if the guy I was dating is an avoidant or if he’s secure & it was all the other factors that were at play, but he would consistently text me every day, either to ask me to hang out later that day, or to ask me how my day was going, have a brief convo and that was it.
I realized that is not enough for me. I don’t want someone who’s texting me all day, but anytime they think of me or get reminded of me, send a little blurb… send me a song you’re listening to… call me to chat for a while…
I’m a “sapiosexual” so communicating is big to me in my relationships.
Maybe try dating another person with an anxious attachment? One of the biggest things I see on these threads are AP's or FA's who keep dating avoidants and want them to adopt the way that they want them to treat them, but that's not exactly how it works. If you want someone who aligns with you then you shouldn't date someone who is the opposite of you. You never see people who lean anxious talking about their anxious partner and I wonder why that is. I'm a healing FA and can't date AP's or anyone who has anxious tendencies. Do you find that you do this too? Avoidants and I speak the same language and I don't need or want a ton of extra communication, but if I did, I would probably date someone who isn't avoidant.
Doesn't sound anxiously attached but rather you want text or messages that have a bit more "meat" to them. I could be misreading that. So you're looking for someone who is an avid communicator. I'm sort of like that and I gravitated towards Literature Teachers or similar. Accountants would drive me batty.
So as long as you can be a snake plant, get watered every 2.5 weeks, you will survive. 😂
Damn. That is it.
Wait until that 2.5 weeks turns into 2.5 months or twice a year
I tried explaining, rephrasing, being patient, communicating expectations and boundaries. I might as well be talking to wall. For severely avoidant people like my ex who avoid any self reflection or vulnerability explaining yourself is a waste of time. My ex called attachment theory a psychological bullshit, so there you go. If you date someone like that the only option to save yourself from dying a slow death is to leave.
There you go!! I feel like some of them like a lot of the negative aspects of being an Avoidant in a relationship.
@@shanb7306 you can't and shouldn't change someone who doesn't want to change - a lesson I learned the hard way
@@spiritwanderer777 Agreed. We have to understand how this looks so selfish of 'us' to encourage this although we mean well. You certainly can't allow yourself to shrink. They want to have the perks of a relationship of convenience at our expense. What you fell for is an image (which happens across the board many times but Avoidants are rather strategic because they have already learned pleasing ways given whatever situation(s) caused them to become Avoidant). So this is what draws most of their romantic partners to them because we think 'ala, finally, someone who is really dope, nice, etc., etc.,' which they are also well aware as pretty elusive to find/ encounter so until you see the deactivating strategies, etc., then it's a go. But at this level, after learning so much- you start to realize it's a strategy from the beginning. They are seeking someone willing to conform, contort themselves for them. I say that some actually do find it. So, again- it's considered selfish of us, as far as they see it.
@@shanb7306 you are right, i fell for an image presented for me during love bombing phase and when i finally saw the true self i refused to believe it and tried to change it because of my own fear of abandonment at that time. it is heartwrenching sad to see how many avoidants ruin good people's hearts with selfish self-centered deactivating and coping strategies. i want norhing to do with them. in my opinion they are equally bad choice as narcissists. they may see me leaving as selfish, i call it self love because you have to love yourself to stop abandoning your dreams, needs, desires, your vision of who you want to be.
@@spiritwanderer777 It takes time to heal and get past this for many. Let the healing run its course- that's all you can do at best. I feel that when you are a genuinely good person, your ways will eventually break through to even an Avoidant although it'll be too late for them. Even if they don't care to acknowledge the rare standout that you were to/ for them, it doesn't matter. Like you said- you have dreams, needs, desires but most importantly 'your vision of who you want to be,' and you also have a 'vision' for a romantic relationship that you've desired for a time. Change on their end is required if they want a relationship with you bad enough. I don't care how many people are on this planet- not everyone is replaceable. They can settle all they want to (I've seen this happen so many times with exes) but it usually doesn't last.
In my past dating relationship with an Avoidant; he actually tried to break up after our first couple of dates, stating that he couldn't meet my needs. And I thought he was really talking about having a demanding job, and not having enough time to cultivate a relationship so I asked him about 'compromising,' to which he stated, 'there is no compromise.' Again- I'm just lost right because he's not explaining what he literally means by saying any of this. So, I forget how we moved past that but the 'yo yo'ing' and inconsistencies along with the ghosting episodes magnified but he was always sweet when he came around & even asked me about becoming exclusive only to tell me later that he wanted to pursue a goal that he had and he felt that he needed to have space in which to pursue it but it was for an indefinite amount of time. Initially, I was trying to support it but like you said- you have goals, etc. And I started thinking about how this was getting me off track, far from the goals I'd had in mind for a romantic relationship. Despite the nice efforts when he came around, the nice words, and all of the other unique attributes to him, and his willingness to give certain insights about his avoidance- it was just too much given that he didn't need to change as far as he saw it and still sees it. I just was upset because I met him after being intentionally mindful, practicing Mindfulness and manifesting, being careful about vetting as I could and even celibate for 3 years, only for him to show up. It was quite the FML or heart experience. And although I'm doing way way better, I'm still asking myself why and WTF?!! Because my parents have been married 52 years and although my father's a definite narc no question about it; they have and I know what it costs but this guy is outwardly so different than my Dad and I've seen him dysregulated, etc. I know he's an Avoidant but I never knew these kind of people existed.
I never knew that there was such a fear to deal with emotions, avoid them actually. If I tried to avoid my emotions especially in a romantic situation; I think it'd be the epic failure. I'm very in tune with my feelings even the uncomfortable ones. So, it's hard to imagine someone being emotionally inept, emotionally stunted, yet bold in other areas but afraid of love as an adult.
Yeah I was with a dismissive avoidant for three years and it was the go away, then come back and not taking accountability that killed it mostly for me. The final blow was a deal breaker for me when I asked if they wanted to be with or date someone else be upfront and I will move aside. Had a lot of practice with that when dealing with them. She agreed and then went ahead and started dating someone else without saying a word anyway. Miss have her cake and eat it too.
DAs will tell you what you want to hear, then do whatever they want. When confronted, they will blame you and emotionally shut down. Don’t waste your time.
💯
Exactly what happened with my last relationship.
Thanks. Informative video. Touching on childhood conditioning, it seems parents are less available to their children than it was historically, and this is increasing. Certainly, both parents working and children being in crèches or daycare are adding to this. What can be done to cause change at a society level? We need to make the world better for future generations. It would be great to have a video on this topic if possible.
So beautifully put and very true.
That to me is a very crucially important message/ comment.
When I was a child back in 70s/ 80s, I remember hearing there was this thing called big brothers/ big sisters.
Seems like society is not set up to help and support people in healthy growth.
Too much division.
Not enough love.
How can a mother & father have a healthy relationship with each other and with their children if they are constantly working just to possibly pay bills, survive,and many not even getting enough sleep in that process.
Sleep, proper diet, exercise are so incredibly important for physical & mental health.
This is for the whole families.
As usual, I feel very in line with you brother. I absolutely agree with you.
@@JacobCarlson-uq1my Very true, Jacob, and well said. In the past, there was a bigger circle of support and community was important. Not only biological, but others also played the role of brother and sister. As time went by, families were increasingly isolated, and community spirit was gone. Today, people seem more alone than ever.
As you point out, mother and father are working to pay the bills and the entire family unit suffers. Yet the whole tendency of our society, with its materialism, praise of over-work, and high cost of everything, pushes people in this direction---dare I say to be a gear in the system. Something is wrong.
@@GeoffreyAngapa
♥️🌙☀️🌊🌬👍🏻♥️
I don't have a problem adapting to DAs, nor going the secure route (I might get a bit annoyed by APs, and it's a double edged sword with FAs). But what I do have a problem with and what I find really hard is figuring out what attachment style someone is before it becomes obvious. And when it becomes obvious, it's usually too late.
After starting PDS, I was able to call it out REAL fast. I can go back to every past relationship and see the signs I missed. Now that I'm more healed, it's more obvious.
@@The_Whimsical_Avoidant and are you able to adapt without talking about it directly with them? I prefer direct communication, especially after an FA that drove me nuts with not wanting to be direct and me having to guess everything 🥴 I know SAs should be direct at least when asked, not sure about DAs (I mean, I know Thais says they will be direct when asked, but I'm not sure if that will drive them away too).
I think just ask them to take the test. Then we know.
I say ask them to take the quiz and then you know. Same with the love languages. Take the test then we can really talk about what one wants from the relationship. I'm not big on guessing.
@@eloisemarie5219 it's great if it works for you! But that doesn't really fall under figuring it out on your own, and I'm not gonna make/ask people to take the test in the first month of knowing them.
As for the love languages, I don't think that requires a test. That's not that deep of a thing in terms of vulnerability and self awareness, so people don't have a problem answering that or even mentioning it on their own from my experience. Maybe not directly saying "hey, these are my love languages", but they say it in other ways if you listen.
But still, great if it works for you :)
This is the most educational channel on youtube. I learn so much! Thank you!
A lot of the manosphere advice is geared towards being more avoidant. I can see the lure as familiarty can become unseductive. However it's really about building a safe emotional connection, and understanding maskuline feminine dynamics.
I’m an FA and the DA (I’m no longer talking to) and I texted each other all day long when we weren’t on breaks. Lol. It was very codependent that way. We only saw each other every 2 or 4 weeks due to long distance. We hardly ever talked on the phone.
Had this same set up except we were local 🥴
Finally ended it a month ago.
Amazing content. Thank you for kindly sharing this insight! I wish I found you before ending my last relationship. At the least I now have the conscious knowledge to be a better partner. ❤
This is one of the most informative and helpful videos
For almost 2 years my DA ex was loved up and happy to see me 3 to 4 days a week including activities on the weekend. Then almost over night, after some rocky relationship turbulence, she wanted to wind it down to once a week, she asked this while we were having a tense discussion and of course I freaked out! I saw this as her beginning to deactivate and making moves to run… which she did a months later, I didn’t help the situation becoming very anxious, super unusual because I’m typically a very regulated and secure person. She just meant a lot I think.
Anyway! A really good tip for seeing more of your avoidant in a low admin, scheduled manner is to do the “stay at mine, stay at yours” thing. For me even just once or twice a week, coming over after dinner around 8 or 9, for a movie and chat and bed was good, quality time - make it scheduled because they feel safe with that and it’s a chill way of squeezing more time out of them👌
Very well explained! Your content is very accurate!
I know he's a DA but sometimes it's still confusing. Usually we meet once a week, but now haven't seen eachother for about 3 weeks. I'm always the one who's initiating texting, every 2-4 days. Maybe it's his deactivating strategy. But he told me 3 weeks ago he want to go on vacation with me. Still don't know if I still should try to reach out or if I should just stop texting and see, if he's initiating it.
Build it up then bring up dismissive Avoidant Attachment style. They can't change if they don't know their unconscious
This is interesting because I use the "must knows" list in the early stages of dating and the "exercises" list in the relationship stage. Although, I admit I let the woman decide whether or not she wants to take things to the relationship stage.
Your photo to me on PDS signals the universally outspoken DA rep hahahah every time I see it I’m like oh there he is again.
I’m like, what’s he gonna say.. is he gonna scrap with some AP’s.. or pull out a pulpit and regale us with some stories from his past relationships.😂🥰 I also read your name for some reason as ‘stfu’ which sort of adds to the persona..
Sorry I just had to call myself out for internet fanning you. Actually I’m not sure if I’m a fan 100% more like neutral… it’s a lot, but I do enjoy it.
@@Kinteresting haha, thanks for the compliment! When I started watching Thais's videos I figured I was an avoidant because so many of the attributes resonated with me. However the ghosting, canceled plans, and on again off again relationship attributes didn't resonate with me at all (I hate when people do those things). I took her test along with three others and tested secure for all except one (which I tested avoidant). I still resonate with those DA attributes (I also don't discuss feelings or any of that stuff) so I figured I'd continue sharing in the hopes it resonates with someone, lol. As for the name Sifu (CEEFUU), it's the title they use for teachers of Chinese martial arts (I'm actually a Kung Fu teacher). Think Sensei (the title used for Japanese martial arts) for Kung Fu, lol.
If I've been understanding of a DAs differences yet the relationship still doesn't feel fulfilling (he tries to accommodate more time, more texts etc but his communications are still lacking depth, it's like he is fulfilling what I've asked like it's a check box ☑️ ), then do you think 1) this relationship just isn't right for me, or 2) do I have work to do! Or 3)......?
Sounds like you’re just not compatible…I liked a DA last year and as much as there was something there his communication style or lack of vocabulary which is important to me was not there. Whereas another guy I’ve been talking to now has the exact type of expression and very easy to talk to. Depends what you are willing to accept I guess 🤷♀️
@@belzy02belindah28 thank you for responding. Is the other guy also DA?
Agree with the commenter above. You're incompatible. I happen to like dating avoidants, but if I'm in a position where I have to ask someone to meet my needs when it doesn't come natural to them, I'm just good. I feel like I'm a chore to them. I'd rather be alone.
I'm 14 months into the relationship. Some of his behaviors were weird, and hard to explain. He would call me every day, texting every day. I saw him on weekends. He met my friends and some family. I didn't meet anyone from his life. So, I asked about it. He started talking about his dead parents and aunts in different countries. I said, how about your children? They are home with you this week (14 and 15 years old. He got defensive, and raised his voice. All of that over the phone. I was calm and spoke with a soft voice, told him that love him... Today is day 8 of no contact. This is not the first time I get silence treatment but this is the first time that I won't reach out first. Before, I would wait about a week and reach out first. Not this time. I don't pray for him to contact me. I'm using the time to completely detach. Btw, I have a secure attachment style.
If they don’t they are a dismissing ve avoid, yet the show all the signs you mention, how do you tell them? If all attachment styles can be changed how, when, where can they work on theirs?
Thais, I wish this video came out about a month ago before I lashed out on my avoidant partner for the lack of communication. Now I feel so bad, dont even know how to fix the issue
You're overestimating your influence. You can't make them change. You can't. And as soon as you're eternally done with them, they will feel comfortable telling you you "were their person" and become one of their eternal regrets. Save yourself the pain. If you're healthy you shouldn't be dating avoidants
We can't fix it. They need to go to therapy and heal.
Can you do a video on what it’s like to be in a relationship with a DA? Is it worth the wait? Does it get better after the dating and getting-to-know stage?
With DA it can be even less than that, both very sporadic texting as well as infrequent dates with cancellations
Very helpful, thank you
I tend to defer to your expertise, yet I find myself half agreeing and disagreeing with the things you say about attachment. I mean, in the way that every coin has its flip side.
For example, I'm a fearful avoidant attachment type. You propose that this type sees a relationship as two people being separate but coming together from time to time to exchange the fulfillment of their needs, and that that's the wrong way to see a relationship. I think to myself, yes and no, because relationships have a tendency to become containers of power struggle, and that's toxic, and the fundamental way you prevent that from happening is that each person retains enough independence so that can't happen without incurring a great cost on the other person - a chiefly emotional cost but partly economic and reputational, too. That balance also seems necessary for maintaining attraction and interest.
Another example is when you said we're slower to warm up. I think, mostly yes, but also no because when I develop feelings for someone I tend to play out a relationship with them in my imagination to the point that emotionally I feel like we're already together, even before I'd confessed my feelings or had a first date. If somebody comes along and dates her before I do, my emotional response may be as if somebody kidnapped my wife. Then reality and the extent of my internal warming up hits me like a truck and I have to reign in my feelings and reaction.
Obviously these counterviews have their own failure states opposite of the views they're countering, but a significant amount of their own validity, too. I would be very interested to hear how you'd respond to these things. Thank you for sharing your work, it's very helpful to me.
Dismissive Avoidants match my exact style when it comes to how often we communicate and spend time together. I do like getting sent funny videos and memes throughout the day, but I don't see a need for constant communication. Good morning, good night, hope you had a great day. Then when we see each other we have a week's worth of conversation to catch up on. It's perfect! ❤
Constant communication needs usually come from people who don't have a life outside the relationship itself. When you're in the dating stage, make sure that person you're seeing has a hobby. "If they don't have a relationship outside the relationship, their life will become the relationship."
@@sifublack192 absolutely. I can tell pretty quick if someone is going to be too much. I'm an entrepreneur and business owner who works 7 days a week. You HAVE to have your own life in order to date me. I grew up having men just pop into my work with lunch or flowers or making plans WHILE we were still on the date. I know some people like and need those things, but a little mystery and a little less eagerness is far more attractive.
@@The_Whimsical_Avoidant boy, I wish I could meet someone like you. I to am an entrepreneur and I'm working six days a week. Plus I'm a martial artist training five days a week. My exes never had a life outside the relationship and wanted me around them 24/7. My most recent ex even pushed herself into my business and started giving me ultimatums such as "if you don't do things this way I'll break up with you." She also texted me numerous times throughout the day and got mad if I didn't call her every night knowing I'd work from 5am-8pm some days. I even had exes that wanted me to quit the gym and my martial art training because they thought I was making plans to cheat on or leave them for someone else. 😒 You're right though, show me a little more mystique and excitement instead of the clinginess.
@@sifublack192 I agree that constant communication is too much. My brain is slow and can only take so much. But I think everyone already exists outside a relationship and will continue to do so after it ends. People have to work, run errands, take care of various things. There is family and others to see to. Some work relentlessly that there is no time for hobbies, apart from the occasional film in the evening or relaxation on the weekend. Indeed, romantically, many are alone for years, and are now fed up with that and want closeness and love.
@@GeoffreyAngapa there's a difference between doing day to day things and having a life outside of the relationship. Having a hobby isn't difficult. You can learn a lot if things online these days if you want to. In fact, I have two whole TH-cam channels featuring fitness, martial art, and self defense training people can do right in the comfort of their own home. People who say they don't have time for things are the same people caught up with the latest netflix shows and movies. They have time, it's just not a priority to them.
All that said, hobbies INCREASE your ability to find love. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how many friends I've made just going to the local gym a few hours a week. This expands my social circle which increases my dating opportunities exponentially. Love isn't going to just "show up" at your doorstep because you want it to. Stop making excuses and put yourself out there.
Brilliant. Thanks
In my relationship with my DA boyfriend, I understand and am able to compromise on his few and brief texts and phone calls. However it's the quality, emptiness and depth (or lack thereof) of the responses that I'm struggling with.
Is this also a typical/common for DAs due to not wanting to be vulnerable. Or is this perhaps something else? Feedback, thoughts, suggestions welcome. Because I'm getting closer to thinking this relationship might not be fulfilling enough for me to see myself with him as a life-long partner. I'm FA, earned secure.
Thank you ❤
Following in case anyone replies. I'm intrested in know this too.
Same.... mine is FA or DA or a combo of both.
I felt like there was so much depth in his eyes and soul that I couldn’t wait to discover more about him. I felt like there was something so juicy inside but he was just scared to expose himself, and the times where he did he would run away soon after. For months I chased off and on because he had strong feelings for me and he admitted it . But now that i fought to get closer and he’s actually been more available and putting in his version of “effort” lol … he just comes off so boring and flat. Even if he’s being sweet it just feels so surface level and blah. I chased this man for a year and now that I am making progress and we talk regularly I don’t know if he really has enough personality to keep me interested ??
Months ago he kept saying “there’s nothing to crack!! What you see is what you get!!!”
I didn’t believe him.. but maybe he was right
I feel too scared to bring it up to him because I know he will probably feel criticized or he will make it a “see .. I told you I couldn’t trust you” or “see I told you , you were just being codependent” or “see, I told you I was working on myself and didn’t have the emotions to give to anyone right now”
By the way I’m secure.
Following, too...same reason. Thanks for asking this question!
@@Sarajb517 thank you. Yes I can relate to the depth (or what I thought was depth) in the beginning of our relationship. He was going through something difficult and so open about it, sharing his experience with me, and I thought this is meaningful, a man who can express and talk about his feelings. But now I think it's that he was in so much emotional pain and having someone be present, attentive, caring gave him what he needed ( I'm FA/Secure). I don't think it actually got deeper. Instead I think he shares more when he's in more pain, so I'm maybe in the role of a "therapist" in some way. I'm starting to think I misread the meaning of his ability to share his feelings. I also experience him as flat and uninteresting now.
Secure with a DA leaning attachment style (long story), but perhaps I can help. Most DAs are pretty slow to open up. Asking for too much too soon can be a problem with them. They're pretty logical people and don't spend a lot of time talking about their emotions.
That said, I'll give you MY take. This is just an observation, so take it as part of the data rather than an absolute truth. Men don't relate to feelings the same way a woman does. Men have an entirely different relationship to feelings compared to that of women; they don't trust feelings, they trust facts. What matters to men is what he values and what facts he trusts. So instead of asking him how he FEELS about something, ask him what he thinks. You'll learn a LOT more about him by asking him what he THINKS vs how he FEELS.
BE WITH THE PERSON WANTS TO BE WITH YOU
i was hoping i'd get more clarity about myself... but i can't answer the exercise questions. i'm lost and frozen answering expectation and standards questions. i've dated many people in my life, so the issue isn't a lack of experience... i don't know what the problem is.
Great video
How are you supposed to get to know someone with one face to face a week?
She’s saying if that doesn’t meet your needs to request more time together. After the first five weeks they typically want to spend more time together if they feel safe
@@Greenwitch_Garden unfortunately that ship has sailed. I’ve moved on. Going to send her the pictures we took together before I delete them. It was a good phase we had together
All of the bitter people out there shading avoidants - common sense, and Thais, are always clear - working on things with an avoidant only brings progress if theyre AWARE and COOPERATING to a degree. Of course if they dont know or dont care that they're avoidant, they're not going to play ball with you. And I'm saying this as an anxiously attached person. You really have to learn to differentiate what it is that avoidants do thats targeted at you specifically (which is hardly anything a lot of the time), and what are your own insecurities being amplified back at you when you let yourself drown in your emotions when youre triggered in the relationship dynamic
Agree to awareness, disagree to projection, if ur ap how would you feel by them deactivating for weeks ? Lack of communication? Thats not perception thats based in reality; insecurity would be they communicated they need space a reasonable amount and that they are invested in the relationship and you still project; not that when they shut down out of the blue
@svetikchum6988 I think you missed my point. An avoidant who is aware and working on themselves would NOT be repeatedly deactivating for weeks. They may do it once or twice, but if you've done your best getting your needs across, explaining to them what it does to the relationship and to you as an anxious person, and they STILL deactivate for weeks? That is NOT a cooperative avoidant. I am saying this an an anxious person in a 9 month relationship so far with an avoidant. We are both aware and working on things together. Deactivation (i.e going radio silent with no warning and not responding to attempts to be contacted) has only happened twice, both times for just two to three days. If it happened for weeks? I may be anxious but I am WALKING. That is clearly a far, far more traumatised or uncaring person than I could EVER be
How freaking long is it gonna take for it to sink in that this will only end in PAIN…. IF she does come back. I don’t wanna learn this lesson an even harder way, my God I don’t know if I could help myself.
Love this video Thais ❤
For the love of everything that is sacred, please make your ppt full screen
thank you
All day every day texting feels like alot. I'd take once a week in person and 2 phone calls and few texts over alot of texts daily. But I've been FA leaning anxious before I knew what I know now. Sigh.
All day every day texting is indeed a lot but what you're describing is more of a fwb/situationship sort of relationship. I mean if you're in a relationship you call and meet much more often than that
It’s really hard not take any of this personally…. 1.5 years in and my DA is still so distant despite us having what seemed to be breakthrough moments
How can I ask my girlfriend if she may be experiencing dismissive avoidance?
It’s not something she experiences, it’s a behavioral pattern that’s ingrained
DON'T
DO
IT
WORST NIGHTMARE OF MY LIFE AND THEY WILL MAKE IT YOUR FAULT SOMEHOW :((((((((((((((
So would that be like a situationship? This has been going on forever, and we're currently in an every two week thing where we "catch up".
my gf also suggested to sleep in different bedrooms. what a waste of time.
omglol
Well, then they can bugger off...they shouldn't be dating
My DA certain has that one priceless quality - she’s not a phone person AT ALL 🙌
oh, interesting. i'm very much a DA and i don't believe i have these restrictive rules around texts and phone calls. i love talking. i will talk for hours, message you whatever, double/triple/quadruple text, answer you straight away. however as soon as it becomes some sort of like, mandatory relationship tithe i must perform in order to keep your ego happy i don't want to do it at all. although this doesn't often happen, only when someone has become unhappy with me for whatever myriad reason, they hit me with all those "good morning" type texts where my response is being pass/fail examined for like romantically appropriate affection/timing or whatever. idk i hate all these fucking unspoken rules everyone has. i hate these stupid impossible games, it makes me SO insecure.
What if your partner texts you “I need you”? Does that scare you off? And not because they’re feeling clingy or whatever but maybe because they just need some reassurance or have gone through something rough and would like your support as their special person. Is that too much for a person like you (DA)?
@@atmodlee personally, i don't know what "i need you" means and that phrasing alone worries me a bit. it is my honour to be invited to share the burden of a hard time with someone and i generally will not ignore someone who wants to talk through stuff with me. however a trait DAs seem to share is we don't understand having "needs" and we grew up being shaming for trying to share our burdens with others so i think a lot of us can (unfairly) resent people who look to others too much for support. the behaviour associated with that seems to exist on a spectrum. for me it's just that i get fed up with/triggered by anyone who leans on me and ONLY me, doesn't listen to or action any of my advice or accept any of my practical help, someone who doesn't communicate ever if our talk was helpful in any way. i think an actionable method you can take when dealing with a DA who balks at your needs is to be specific with what you're wanting. so rather than "i need you right now" i'd prefer to hear something like "i had the worst day, can i talk through it with you? it always helps me to get your perspective on stuff/to just spit it all out to someone/ have a big cry and a hug". it really breaks my heart when people think DAs don't care. i think we all know we are deficient when it comes to supporting people and we feel a ton of shame and guilt for that. i think when people understand us and set us up for success by being specific about needs/wants you will be rewarded with a ride or die homie who will deeply understand your troubles, aquainted as we are with the dark side of life often. we are abused children after all. sorry for the essay, hope this helps though.
@@partypartymonsterOh my gosh. This a million times over. I’m a DA too. Also, a girl. Which I think is relevant bc people in my life are perplexed that I am this way? Like, as a woman, I should be really good at meeting emotional needs + fostering relationships + emotional availability?
I believe many (if not most) DAs are wracked with guilt over this emotional/relational deficiency of ours. Personally, I want nothing more than the people I love to have everything they need. I just don’t know how to be that. No one else was that for me. I knew my emotional needs were not going to be met by anyone else, and I made “peace” with that. If I were to ask someone I’m in relationship with to help me get my needs met, I wouldn’t event know where to begin. I have no concept of what that looks like. I think the same is true for a lot of DAs. Thais has explained this really well and given helpful tools to remedy this issue but it’s hard not to shutdown/freak out if this situation pops up. My gut reaction to “I need you” is “Ahh why are you asking me? How could I possibly help you?! I can’t even help myself!”
Especially over text because if you’re face-to-face you can physically comfort someone. But over text? The stress and pressure of “how on earth could my words make you feel better? It’s more likely that I could say the wrong thing and make you feel even worse”
Normal people reading might say that this (DA) response is kind of selfish. We should get over our discomfort with failure and attempt to say something, anything comforting. And to deal with the response to our attempt maturely. Whether the response is positive or negative.
I think this ties in with a perfectionism wound and/or the fear of putting ourselves out there. Something else I think DAs commonly struggle with.
@@rgold_ indeed. i am sure people don't understand what this "discomfort" feels like. it feels so dark and shameful. sometimes it's like my programming takes over and i just don't have access to higher thoughts. although i am getting so much better with practice i think. (i practice with my friends! call off the sniper, jilted ex-lovers of DAs in the comments)
What about no texting and no phone calls. 5 months of basically nothing but dm's on our tiktok accounts.? Both over 55 & long distance.
5 months of basically nothing but dms is in my opinion nothing. Maybe a penpal.
Is that really even a relationship? Why are you accepting this crumbs?
This is a friend not a relationship lol
Lol 1-2 times a week??!! Lol few short exchanges ? I would never complain heck id take once a week or once every 2 weeks
If it isn't important, once a day is plenty. Not important is: what someone said or did at work. Unless it negatively affects your life and you want my help fixing. Don't call unless someone died.
But seriously, what do people have to say so much to be texting that amount of time every day?!
For some of us, conversation and _sharing_ *is* connection.
Example: You're a part of my life and I baked an awesome loaf of bread. I want to _share_ that personal victory with you, so I shoot you a text.
Projecting _my_ perception as an AA onto it, if I _received_ this kind of text, I would take that text as a positive bid and see it as a good thing. Cool, they want to invite me into their life and are sharing this with me. And, I get to support them and show caring in that way. I'll tell them how it looks great and I can't wait to try some. So I text back that it's great. Now I feel a bit closer to this person, amd safer in the relationship.
What I've learmed from a couple avoidant friends (and one I recently just let go because they are truly unhealthy and will not get help) is the avoidant feels like this kind of text is this huge pain in the ass, oh my god, another text to answer, ugh, this person is taking up my time.
As an AA, that attitude is deeply hurtful and VERY hard not to take personally. Even more hurtful is the leaving kind, caring, well-intentioned messages on read. It's like reaching to hug someone and they literally ignore you or just walk away. Their _actions_ (or non-action, often) seem to say, "I don't care about you, your life, your attempt to share with me, and you are here to interact with _only_ at _my_ convenience and at _my_ will on _my_ terms."
It has taken me a LOT of work to walk the line between being honest about my comms needs while still respecting their need for space. Being totally blunt about it is key. Like, "I'm OK if you only want to hang out once a week, but I'd like to maybe chat on the phone, too, a couple times a week."
The problem is most DAs just walk away the millisecond the relationship needs this (reasonable) amount of "work." They really do live with this expectation of every person being like psychic and just "knowing" what they want/need. It's where their "perfect partner" or "the one" cognitive distortion come into play.
It is so easy to fall back into the mindset as an Anxious Preoccupied that you are this horrid, needy, awful, clingy, too-much person for asking for basic connection (and honestly, in many cases, it's just basic _manners_ ; it is objectively rude to straight up ignore people). And you probably _are_ a bit too demanding and clingy (I know I was; still super cringe looking back at my behaviors from ~ 2 years ago; ugh and yikes!). But you DO get to ensure _some_ of your needs are met, too.
Just trying to answer your question, hopes this helps.
You're missing the point... with a normal well-adjusted person that you get along with, there is no need to regulate conversation - it happens naturally: you'll post X and they'll either laugh if it's a joke, meme whatever, or discuss back if it's a serious topic. You might be busy, but a response such as "LOL - up to my arz in work, catch you later" is all it takes.
The DA/FA will just ignore you - because they are so up their own arze they enjoy making you feel like a sap for daring to want to communicate with them.
THEY are the abnormal ones, not you.
Normal people enjoy communicating with people they like enough to be in a relationship with.
And that's the crux: you are not in a relationship with these people - you're just being used, either for validation, or sex, or just so they can say they snagged you because they're so unworthy - their reasons can be anything, from selfishness to mental illness, but the end result is the same: you're wasting your time because they are incapable of normal human interactions.
@@Shutzie27 we don't ignore texts because we don't care or because we want a relationship at our convenience. It's because the texts literally feel like they are sucking our energy, and we don't have the spoons to take care of all your needs on top of ours. As selfish as you think da's are being, we think you're just a selfish by always asking for our time and attention without respecting our boundaries. You're not sending that text because you care about us. If you did, you would know enough to leave us alone. You're sending it because you want validation, and we don't have the energy to give it to you 24/7.
@@hueyandmo I think I said that in paragraph four of my response.
And again, what you perceive as "validation" is what we often see as closeness. I can't be physically affectionate or intimate with someone who comes into my life, _takes_ those things, doesn't ask about my life or share information, and then disappears for days on end. Like, what? How does that create emotional connection or safety. Also, validation is actually a pretty OK and normal thing to both GIVE and RECEIVE in a relationship. (Though yes, APs have healing to do in that a _constant_ need for reassurance is unhealthy.)
@@hueyandmo 100%. People are out here dating people they are incompatible with and think that because their way of dating and communicating is the "normal way" that everyone else needs to succumb to their way of thinking. There is literally no right or wrong way of how much communicating a couple should be doing, but like the person who posted the comment, I don't personally understand why people want or "need" to talk to one person all of the time. What did they do before the relationship? I honestly won't even date someone who doesn't have their own life, hobbies and social circle they regularly talk with because I know that person with become codependent on me and that's extremely unhealthy.
please dont string ppl alone and heal yourself❤
I never feel disconnected or rejected from my dog. Why bother with peepol ?
Because when healthy and whole we are social creatures that thrive in community. Even our hormones are built for connection.
@cappygurl / Nah, Most people are nothing more than containment vessels for the production of human excrement with an ego attached. Shalom
Nah, most people are nothing more than containment vessels for the production of human excrement with an ego attached .shalom
@@cappygurl/ Nah, healthy people don't need to hang out with other people because 99% are unhealthy. Shalom
/ yes, it's just as important as attempting to navigate human relationships. Why, does it offend you ? Don't you like animals ? Shalom
Da's aren't worth it
Once a week more like seeing them and they didn’t anitiate it
👍🙏🏼
Don't do it, its not worth it!!!
Kids don’t know that their emotional needs aren’t being met??!!!!!
These videos should always actually be - DONT DATE AVOIDANTS
THIS RIGHT HERE.
Lol probably 😂
Dating is suppose to be just a bit of fun. I am sick and tired of people making a federal case out of it
It's not fun with life destroying carnage due to the unconsciousness out there. Why it's becoming a science now to deal with the growing pool of avoidants. It's about dealing with the lack of integrity. Would you go into a war zone unprepared?
Meanwhile, she met another guy.
This woman mastered the art of speaking without saying much of anything
Meaning?
She said quite a lot that you failed to grasp.
You've mastered the art of passively listening. Active listening is a skill and requirement for intelligence
I wish I could understand everything this lady is saying she talks way too fast and her words are all muddled together. Slow down