Why New Cars Are Using Both Direct & Port Fuel Injection
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- Why dual fuel injection is superior to port or direct injection alone.
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Carburetors are old news. We've moved on to electronic fuel injection long ago. But of the two main varieties of fuel injection, port and direct, there hasn't been a clear winner as of late. Both direct and port fuel injection have distinct advantages, and hence, combining the two was the next logical step in automotive engine evolution. What's the difference between direct injection and port injection? When is each injector used in engines that run both systems? How do dual fuel injection systems differ when aiming for maximum efficiency versus maximum power? And how does dual fuel injection affect carbon deposit and buildup on intake valves? Check out the video for full details!
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I had an BMW E90 335i with the DI N54B30 engine; had about 70K miles on it. One night I got bored and decided to pull the intake manifold off to see what my intake valves looked like after I had learned about the carbon deposit issue. OH. MY. GOD. The sheer amount of black carbon just caked and caked on every single one of them blew my mind. Luckily the problem was so well known on this car that there are valve blasting kits on the market that made the DIY job relatively easy. Still though, what a massive engineering oversight.
I always appreciate the time and effort you put into making these videos. Thanx man... All the way from 🇿🇦
Thanks! Got engaged to my wife in your beautiful country a couple years ago! :)
@Jeffrey Cheng what
Jeffrey Cheng weird place to vent these types of thoughts...
My 2020 2.5 Toyota Dynamic Force Engine has both port and direct fuel injection. I am totally amazed at my 2.5 Dynamic Force engine in my 2020 Camry LE (8,350 total miles) I recently took a 445 mile trip that put my car through just about all the scenarios a car could face including, freeway, hills, mountains, long gradual inclines, long gradual declines, 78 miles of winding uphill, downhill, sharp turns, not so sharp turns, manually downshifting, manually upshifting, and driving around a small coastal California town of Fort Bragg for two days. After I came back home I filled up the tank to check for the first time my gas milage turned out to be...an amazing "35.8 miles per gallon." I had to redo the numbers on my calculator to double check...445 miles divided by 12.4 gallons of gas. I am totally amazed! And all these miles were not "easy interstate miles"...only about 125, or so. My car performed better than I anticipated and this engine...totally amazed me! The car is rated for 39 MPG (freeway) on the window sticker. It looks like it would do even better! Totally amazing!
I had a coworker that has the 2018 Camry with the dynamic force 4-cylinder and they got 44 mpg-hwy
@@matthewmiller2268I have a 2018 Camry and I can get close to 50 on the highway. Amazing!
Can't tell you how happy I am that I found your channel. You explain things so incredibly well. You've opened up a whole new world to me thank you!
Jason, kind of dude that polishes his white board after every use
Cleaner than my cars for sure!
Doesn't everybody???
You got me curious, because I don't recognize it either. Mo is molybdenum.
I don't blame you for not having that one memorized. It sounds more like a pop star's clothing line than an element.
CrMo-steel? Ring a bell? :p
I had it memorized for god knows what reason
@@flyfaen1 piston rings
It's used in high grade alloys and lubricants. Most people just call it moly. It's mined quite a bit in the north west, but South American mines and price crashes have slowed that down. It's a weird shiny purple
@@danielrouw2593 I pronounce it moly-bend-um. Easier to say.
I just wanted to drop a comment to let you know how much I enjoy your channel. I have a decent grasp of the basics of how various aspects of cars work, but I always learn something new. I enjoy your approach to the various topics, and you have a great balance between keeping it very approachable and easy to understand but also explaining the science and engineering behind how something is designed.
Keep up the awesome work!
thanks! i can usually follow your explanations of these and other somewhat complex, complicated systems--outstanding work!!! as a result i feel (as an older person buying used vehicles vs new) i have a better chance of selecting something that may be a little more reliable and less demanding on the pocketbook. i never cease to be amazed at how you get to the meat of the issue without putting me to sleep!
Really appreciate it, thanks for watching Greg!
Greg, the answer to the question is easy . dont buy a direct inject engine car.
thanks! looks that way--i got all of my car trading hopefully out the way last century--now it's all about reliability and decent gas mileage--but still, if i come across a car with fins on it, i might be tempted...
@@jhndijkman Most engines are direct on the market today.
@@justd02ofus yes, that is a real problem.
I'm learning so much from these videos. Have been for years. Thank you Jason!
Ein wunderbares Video, vielen Dank für ihre Bemühungen, ich habe viel gelernt und bin immer noch erfreut darüber.
Man your videos are so clean and right to the point on every aspect.. wow! I learn a lot, Cheers from France!
Thanks again for all that you do buddy! Just used you video to help educate a customer on the importance of fuel injection services on their new Subaru.
As usual, extremely simple and clear ! Bravo.
GReat video as usual. Thanks for the time & effort to produce these highly illustrated and intelligently explained complex technical systems. Easy for all to understand.
To get the carbon off, you gotta blast those valves with the walnuts bro...any nuts that fall down into the combustion chamber and get roasted, you simply collect in a "catch can" and serve those caramelized nuts at your next party.
A proper roast.
lol
Get that guy from Ice Age to handle it for you and you're good to go.
Old Mercedes engines had direct injection. The intake ports would clog with a substance nearly as hard as diamonds. 4 hours to bead blast one head clean. It would slowly loose power over the years till it would barley run. No walnut shells were going to get rid of that crud.
@@EngineeringExplained
What is your opinion of catch cans? And if you think they're beneficial, do you think they aren't standard equipment because they need to be emptied periodically (or for some other reason)?
Your videos are really very very good, I have learnt a lot from them. Thanks for making them and keep it up. Engineering Explained is my favourite channel on the TH-cam.
This is the first time I know about positive crankcase ventilation. Thanks man
Man I love the way you explain, the way you talk, even with my poor english I'm able to understand everything, or almost. Amazing work!
Bravo! Very informative and clear, thank you for your hard work!!
love the in-depth videos!
Even when I have no clue of what the video is about, I still enjoy watching it! XD keep up the good work!
Ask soon as I hear him say hello. A thumbs up has been clicked. Always a great job.
as always excellent explanation of this. Thank you so much for your videos. It is indeed valuable.
Hey Jason! Thank you for the great content that you post all the time. I would be very interest in getting your take on the auto Start/Stop engine function found in most modern cars today. Is it good, or is it actually bad? Your input would be highly appreciated!
Its a nightmare , Already seeing chewed up flywheels,Benix and starter gears.. They all have to work 20 times harder than a standard start truck.
This video was very well done for someone like myself fascinated and curious about the internal functionings of the combustion engine but not a full on gear head by any stretch of the imagination. I gotta subscribe so that I can learn more! 😉
Very awesome video! This made me super happy to hear when Toyota was pushing the D4S dual injection system because it is so efficient. You get the best of both worlds without being stuck with the compromises of DI.
Love your vids. Really good explaination. Greetings from Germany
D4-S training talks for my job specifically mentioned carbon buildup. D4-S has an injector cleaner cycle that shoots a high-pressure air-fuel mixture laterally across the notch in the injector tips to clean them. It happens during idle every approximately 17k miles.
I have a PI + DI motor and love it, good horsepower with great economy and no carbon build up, you can't ask for more really.
Toyota Mark-x 350S.
2GR-FSE motor, 314hp.
Toyota makes awesome v6 engine
Thanks for the info. Need to bring in more information videos. 👍
Wow!!! What a way to explain concept. You are excellent. Thanks from India
Obviously depending on the application, it seems as though you get the best of both worlds with Port + Direct Injection, thank you for the explanation on all of the variants. It trips me out that all of these ways to inject fuel were all from the minds of engineers. It's pretty rad if you ask me.
Very good this video! the last part I've already known about fuel additives! Good for everyone to know
Great video!! Keep these comin....
Thanks for tackling this, Jason. I have been curious about some of the specific techniques used in the D4-S system on my FA20 and found there is little info out there. Wherever you got this info thanks.
Good info! I never knew why they did both, thanks! The only car I see at the dealer I work at that uses both is the NSX. I always thought it was just because they needed more fuel for all that boost, but now better understand the engineering purpose behind it.
Love the whiteboard videos dude!
If they really only needed for fuel, they could have gone for way higher CC injectors.
Very well researched and put together! And I finally understand why the BMW M cars (and other sports cars) do that loud engine cold start phase.
Superb. I like the explanation on carbon deposite on intake valves. It is new for me
Excellent video as per usual.
Another Fantastic video! Mind 🤯! Thank you. 👍
Never had any fuel injection issues, with my early 90's cavalier with 3.1 V6 ( M.P.F.I. ) Multi-Port Fuel Injection.
Solid car.
Great stuff as always Professor👍
Thanks!
@@EngineeringExplained Is there any other brand than Toyota and they D4-S who are using double injections direct and port ? Never heard anybody else doing that, since Toyota introduced Its D4-S.
@@djorksolo8544 VW is using it on the EA888 Gen3 2.0L TSI engine sold outside USA
@@MrNangu Ok good to know! But compare to Toyota It's only 1 engine in VW. While Toyota already many engines. So I would go for a Toyota rather than a VW which isn't reliable at all!
@@djorksolo8544 Yes, It's your choice. I only answered your question ;)
Great video! I'm starting to watch alot of your videos. Do you have anything on carburetors?? Would love too learn more about em
Great explanation. I wish I knew how my Coyote chooses to utilize both its port and direct fuel injectors, and at what RPM ranges. Thanks for your excellence once again on the whiteboard!
Me too.
Thank you for this informative video about DI and PI engines. Could you also do a video on how to reduce or clean carbon deposits on DI engines? Much appreciated!
Cool and interesting, as always
Very nice, thank you. Maybe PI is also used to reduce the amount of fine particles of soot in the exhaust gas.
Super awesome explanation 👌.
One small observation which kept disturbing me in your sketch on the board is
*When the piston reaches TDC, the connected rod is straight, not tilted.
Once again great job.
Love from India.
Dual fuel injection, the best of both worlds. I had a feeling this system will become more common in the long run. The newer Ford Mustang GTs also has dual fuel injection, which is awesome, and once this system gets more improvements, I bet most of the automakers will convert to dual fuel injection. I wouldn't be surprised if I see more Toyotas, Fords, Chevys, Volkswagens, even Mazdas adopt this setup in the future
Very complicated and expensive. Is it worth the complexity??
@@brysortho Yes, and a lot!
moooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! its Molybdenum, love you broo......keep up the work. good knowledge..thanks
Got a real laugh out of the Moe for Molybdenum, I have a feeling you're pulling our collective leg there. As a mechanic my eye went immediately to the right side of your white board. I was bouncing out of my chair until you mentioned valve deposits, the bugaboo of DI! Ask anyone who has had to have their BMW's DI intake valves blast cleaned how big (expensive) a problem DI resultant intake valve deposits can be.Always enjoy your videos. If you weren't kidding about "Moe", well chem wasn't my strong suit either.
Super helpful, thanks!
Dude u r the best. Great video bud
How about using oil catch cans on D.I. engines to minimize the ill effects of blow-by ??
Could you do a video about this ?
Great explanation.
Thank you for that detailed video.
My question is if were to design an engine not for mass prodution and if you are given the free hand to design whichever way you want design it. What factor would you consider in your design. I have heard that engineers have a lot of restrictions in designing components that go together in an engine
Great explanation on the topic! I presently own a 2014 Mazda 6 GT model with the 2.5 l with 120,000 Km. The car has been very reliable, don't even want to look at those valves. You mentioned Toyota has both port and direct injection. What other companies have engines with both PI and DI, besides Ford. Thank you!
You are a really knowledgeable person. You really should be a professor of the best automobile engineering university. Although I'm a student of commerce and I don't know how well the professors teach in those universities, I feel like I wouldn't have needed a better teacher if you were the one teaching.
Great job! Thanks!
Nice Video Jason.
How about you make a video on how exactly the powertrain in the Toyota/Lexus Hybrid Vehicles (Hybrid Synergy Drive) works. That would be very interesting as well.
Very informative video but totally exhausted after watching as im sure you are. ❤️️
Really interesting, thank you :D
Well done, thank you.
Great show as ever. I have a Citroen DS3 155THP and I'm on my second engine as a result of pre-ignition due to the carbon buildup (scouring the net shows they're notorious for this due to the turbo and Di), it always seems to be the no. 4 piston that breaks, I'm assuming it doesn't cool as well as the others so the carbon builds quicker there. Anyway, I've done about 30k miles on the new engine, and the pre-ignition is starting again so I'll try use a carbon removal spray, do you know of any way to prevent the buildup? Or do I have to keep using the spray? Getting it walnut blasted hasn't been great for the valve seals so I try to avoid that method. Oh, and as you pointed out, Citroen admit verbally that the carbon issue is a problem, but they'd never put it in writing, despite seeing 7 of the same engines in the shop at one time with the heads removed for blasting.
Thanks for the video :) really explained a lot. Wonder if the whole DI issue is the same for diesel engines? I've never experienced modern Diesel's torque (been meaning to for years 🙁) but we have an old Peugeot 405 indirect injection turbo diesel which has decent torque compared to most modern cars here; the 1.5 liter petrol engines in Toyota Allions, Premios, and 1 litre Indian cars; and has lasted 25 years without any major engine repair... I wonder if modern diesels would last like them
There is a german Engineer with a Company called RSklinik who also works at Volkswagen and offers intake valve and manifold cleaning.
And he clearly names the Problem with the Carbon deposits caused by Not using Port injection.
An example always refered to is the RS4 B7 which loses approximately 40hp in 40.000 km just by Carbon deposits (depends on oil and driver).
I was curious about Mechanical Fuel Injection, both in diesels and gasoline engines, would love to see a video as educational as yours about it.
Thank you Jason!
I love your videos Jason, really good explanation that even non engineers can understand, I like watching your videos more because I am currently studying Mechanical Engineering, I'd rather watch these lectures than boring, Calculus or Chemistry lectures, non the less, I really get hooked into the videos, pretty interesting to see how our modern cars work to get by all the Emissions Standards. I also own a car with a Toyota D4-S (Subaru) Boxer Engine, so it's really nice to know how it operates also during cold starts.
Very interesting work. Is this what engineering is? I'm looking for a career to get into. This would be awesome
@@brandoncastles2900 Engineering is a broad field. Specifically this is Mechanical Engineering, and it’s not all about cars, there are many divisions into this Engineering. It’s an interesting field if you like the design and analysis of any component that moves, including fluids.
I like the info u r giving us but a little more animations along with explanation makes it even better for understanding.
It seems that the video progress bar hits the vertical lines of the board almost exactly when/where the subject changes to what's in its area. Was it on purpose? That was very nice!
Thank you. One can always count on this channel to provide intelligent discussion without a lot of silly distraction.
I must ask: does anyone know if the new 2.0 in the Nissan Sentra is GDI alone, or a hybrid like the Toyota Corolla, et al? Any reports coming in on that motor or is it too early?
Be well.
I love the white board, always great information.
So the FRS utilizes the D-4S system. Do you think it uses the stratified “mode” and switches to the homogenous “mode” when you select the sport button? Thank you for the explanation! Learned a lot!
How about elaborating Mazdas approach on using heat to prevent carbon?
this is the god of car explanation. thanks.
Hi, Could you please share the details of that SAE paper (link) which was discussing about carbon deposits. I would like to read more in detail about it.
Saw the title and thought:
Whiteboard video!
Tx!
Hello! Big fan of your videos. One thing got me curious, for more power isn't it better to use port injection at high rpm? My thought is that direct injection is limited by it's opening time. As far as I know Vw 1.6 fsi engine is ok at low rpm and it's quite torky, but at high rpm is not brilliant... a port injection engine may be not so efficient but for power it's more useful (ex: Lamborghini Aventador v12 6.0 mpi)
Your videos are amazingly informative the thing is you can have the best engine if your fuel injection system does not get the fuel or the spark for the compression it doesn't matter how good the engine is this is the problem with vehicles
And don't forget throttle body injection! That one was probably the most revolutionary of all... And there were electronically controlled carburetors, with oxygen sensors. And my favorite, mechanical fuel injection. ;)
This video makes me wonder if Atkinson cycle DI engines might avoid carbon buildup issues because they force gasoline into their intake runners, where the gas can clean the valves. Perhaps this could be a video in the future?
BACK IN MY DAY WE JUST USED GAS HOSE THAT SQUIRT GAS ON THE VALVE COVER
Modern cars and the dang electo-units.
AND YOU LIKED IT~!
That Toyota stratified ingnition sound similar to Mazdas SPCCI
also, i have heard that the switch between port and direct injection in the BRZ/86 is the reason there is that torque dip
I have a quick question. In the stratified section you said the port injectors are spraying fuel while the intake valve is closed in the exhaust stroke, so how is the fuel getting inside the combustion chamber if the intake is closed? Great video though
If I was reading your diagram correctly, the direct injector on the D4S is blowing fuel on the piston head on the up stroke. Does that help to keep the head clean since fuel is blowing directly on it?
Hi, great clip, but i have few questions. Maby it depend on car brand, but do PI and DI its own map in ECU? Also, if you check wolkswagen engine EA888 3gen. and 3gen+, they used dual injection on engine CJEB, but on newer version 3gen.+ its not used anymore. Do you have ideas what are cons to use it?
Another unmentioned benefit is the injector sizing is able to be better optimized to increase accuracy and control, since to required flow capability fo each injector is not as high as a conventional DI or port system which can help improve emissions, particularly to help meet new particulate standards.
So i have a 2005 5.7 hemi I believe we used mpfi so in this setup do the valves get clean? Before i buy a power foam or carb cleaner
Stratified charge: what's old is new again. I remember when the Honda CVCC engines made their appearance here in the States in the early 1970s along with Honda's television commercials touting its benefits.
As for blow-by, with the electronification of today's cars, catch cans with a solenoid valve to the sump can solve the valve deposit issue for the most part, EGR excepted. This seems inevitable to me as engine makers reach higher for fruit. No more low-hanging stuff to tweak.
If you look underneath the valve cover of many direct injected engines today, they already have an extensive oil separation system for the PCV, plus a direct pathway to the engine sump for oil drainoff (no valves required if the tube goes straight down below the oil level). One example of this is the Ford 2.7T, and another is the Honda Civic Type-R engine. Catch cans aren't really a great solution, because for the most part they either aren't catching enough oil particles (today, proper PCV oil separation systems are capturing sub 1 micron particles), or they are too restrictive. And in the winter, they freeze (which is really bad for your car as crankcase gases go out the fresh air tube... and when that freezes... blows your seals). All of those catchcan ads you see on forums are only telling part of the story when they say "LOOK HOW MUCH WE CAUGHT!!!11!" when they show off the fluid, because the fluid is a mix of water, gas, and oil. Gas and water you don't typically care about because they burn off when you drive, but the oil is what causes the deposits (the proper way is for those catchcan companies to actually heat the fluid so that only oil is left).
Thank you for this video. I am a long time subscriber. I just bought a 2018 Hyundai Sonata Limited with a 2.4 GDI engine as a family sedan. This car currently has 16,000 miles on it. I really want to take car of it, as I payed cash and have never owned a car this nice in my life. Do you have any recommendations/videos on Mitigating carbon deposit issues on the intake valves? I plan on replacing the PCV valve every 20k miles. I really appreciate the effort and diligence you put into your videos. any help would be greatly appreciated.
Good job on this vid. I never nod off watching your stuff. My solution for my new 3.6 V6 was a catch can and you should see all the crap it catches, none of which should be ingested by any engine port injected or not🤮
Hello, First of all thanks for sharing video. I do have few query, appreciate your reply
1. Does this video is apt for gasoline only or for CNG also.
2. In PI, during injection of fuel it will displace incoming air thus affecting volumetric efficiency, considering Atkinson cycle.and thus less power will be produced.
manish mishra Yes, in CNG there is a displacement of air in PFI, but the required pressure for DI is quite high which usually needs a high pressure fuel pump. Usually this is done only with LNG. Westport Power does a dual fuel (diesel plus DI LNG) which has one of the lowest CO2 for a combustion engine. Generally for SI engines, though, turbocharging is cheaper than DI for CNG and that is what most engine manufacturers do for CNG, though some don’t turbocharge but instead raise the compression ratio to roughly 12:1 and the efficiency improvement can offset the air charge loss from fuel displacement. The air displacement for petrol PFI is lower than the air density improvement from cooling, but this is not the case with CNG which has roughly 10% air volume reduction.
Great video! I hear that direct injection engines often have high emissions of very fine particles. Does dual injection help with particle emissions?
So a engine with both PI and DI would be best keeping valves cleaner etc ?
Hi Jason, what's your opinion about port injected turbo engines? As Iknow, some grey imports coming in to my country made by Toyota/Daihatsu (JDM models) have port injection. How do they cope with forced induction and cooling for prevention of knock while resorting to port injection?
what kind of fuel injection system does the newer toyota corolla use pls answer
Question, so im looking for new injectors for an 09 srt8 with port injectors. Im wondering if getting after market injectors that have a better atomized fuel spray would be ok with it or is an atomized spray more for direct injection? Im honestly confused here.
Shouldn't hurt anything i dont think plus it would be better combusted and better mixed and it would cool the air better thus making better power.
So what should the drivers do to help reduce the valve gunk?
Please review long term issues with valve gunk!
Thanks
Could you do a video about a Top Fuel Dragsters engine?