Phenom SG-210 Boxing Gloves REVIEW- GREAT OVERALL TRAINING GLOVES!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
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    Thanks for watching my videos and supporting this channel! Whether you're background is Boxing, MMA, or traditional Martial Arts, I hope my reviews help give you the answer your looking for to make informed choices. Whether it be needing to purchase new boxing gloves, headgear, footwear, I'll do my best to bring you my honest take on the equipment I'm using. Cheers to your continued support!
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    MY HAND SIZE FOR REFERENCE
    9 1/4 " Wide from side of index finger to side of pinky finger
    8" Tall from bottom of palm to top of middle finger
    11" Closed Fist Circumference

ความคิดเห็น • 170

  • @TheChupacabra2130
    @TheChupacabra2130 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    My man. Definitely purchasing the blue version right now! Thanks, Carlo!

  • @howardoneill31
    @howardoneill31 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you just purchased a pair of 12oz in white as a sparring glove for my son, really impressed with them

  • @andrewtanczyk4009
    @andrewtanczyk4009 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks Carlo. At some point I’m going to have to purchase these within the next couple of months. You sold me on it. I’ll get the Velcro.

  • @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667
    @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love these gloves. I been using these more and more in my rotation with 1V1, Winning and Fly.

  • @WolfColaUK
    @WolfColaUK 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I've been using these gloves for a couple of months now (14oz and lace as in the video).
    Personally, I'm finding these perfect for my hands (I'm 6ft1, 80kg with long fingers). I feel as though they will suit most hands though. Break in time was pretty fast and painless, maybe 3 sessions or so and my knuckles were already nestled in quite nicely. Perhaps a couple sessions more until more shock was taken out.
    I can also back up the point on fit for a 14oz glove being good/accurate. This is something I've struggled with in the past, in terms of finger compartment depth/landing flush. Not the case with these.
    They are also great on the bags - whether you're throwing quick/snappy combos and looking for a bit of pop, or sinking in with more power, with say an uppercut on the teardrop bag. So they've got this balance perfect imo.
    Stitching, lining and laces are all great. The leather looks and feels great out of the box but I am noticing some cracking already on the left glove towards the outside edge. This has been the only disappointment for me so far as I've owned gloves at half the price, where the leather has been more durable. It's hard to say how fast that might deteriorate. For me, that's an area for improvement. I'm thinking it's material rather than thickness but could be wrong. The lack of wrist padding on the inside hasn't personally been an issue to me and I don't have the best wrists. However, I use a lace to velcro conversion and so, get a lot of my support that way.
    Overall, I think they were worth the money for me personally as they've got so much right other companies struggle with. I just hope the leather holds out, as they are so far a company I will be buying from again.

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Nice feedback

    • @WolfColaUK
      @WolfColaUK 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@csquaredboxing Thanks man, purchased off your review 🥊

    • @ryyonvin
      @ryyonvin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@WolfColaUK how has the leather been after another 3 months?

    • @aifranamir2419
      @aifranamir2419 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@ryyonvin Hope he gets back to your question cuz im wondering the same thing 😂

    • @JG8083
      @JG8083 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      How have they held up ?

  • @stoyanstoyanov3328
    @stoyanstoyanov3328 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    These look stunning . Simple but very beautiful . That thumb curves very winning like which is not a bad thing . Punch surface seems to be very flat which I`ve found with other gloves helps landing punches properly on the knuckles. I can`t afford these right now but they will be my choice in future instead of russian boxer, rival and cletos .

  • @gn1us
    @gn1us ปีที่แล้ว +1

    @csquaredboxing, these or Hayabusa T3 LX leather or Hit N Move all day pro? I want some wrist support and do mostly bag/mitt work with occasional sparring. Great work love your channel!

  • @dalephillips2879
    @dalephillips2879 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The stigma with gloves being made in Pakistan is crazy after seeing the quality of the equipment that is coming out of there the past couple of years. I am ordering the elite SG200 for bag work (I love the design would you go 14 or 16oz in those?) and also the sg210 16s for sparring. Watched alot of your vids Carlo and always buy based on your reviews so thank you for your service brother 👌

  • @tomassvedjenas5207
    @tomassvedjenas5207 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hey! Great review. Would you recommend to get them in 10 or 12 oz for mitt and bag work and get another 16oz for sparring?
    Would they work in kickboxing/Muay Thai also?

    • @ceerock8088
      @ceerock8088 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Good gloves but your hands will get warm real fast. I have them 14 oz and both gloves actually weigh 14oz.

  • @mikebarnes7677
    @mikebarnes7677 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi mate, absolutely love the channel and the videos, keep up the good work. I am torn between these and the fortress ss2.0 in velcro for Muay Thai sparring, which would you recommend? I have had some wrist issues with my Thai gloves so was also considering the onx X factor, would you say they are better for wrist support than the fortress? Or worth twice the price?

  • @aboodalbaqshi194
    @aboodalbaqshi194 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey carlo . I'm looking forward to buy those awesome gloves but im confused about the sizing . My hands size is almost like yours . 14 oz is comfortable for you but in thier website it recommends 12 oz . Any recommendations ?

  • @markstacey2906
    @markstacey2906 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great review... Gloves look wicked and there leather for the same price as plastic Fly gloves... Many thanks for sharing...

  • @omrifisher3826
    @omrifisher3826 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tnx for this video.
    I bought a new pair of velcro 14 oz.
    Looks amazing!!
    Just wondering if they are a bit smaller than a standart 14 oz gloves?
    I uesd to train and spar with Fairtex bgv6 14 oz.
    General opinion, gloves that have bigger profile with minimum wieght (but good protection)
    Is the best choice for sparring.

  • @keenan1637
    @keenan1637 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Carlos, you prefer these over the phenom bag gloves? In terms of durability and comfort.

  • @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667
    @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The padding in these feels extremely similar to the padding in my Winning gloves

  • @bretth5070
    @bretth5070 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for the review on these! I see they don't have these in 12 oz so do you think the 14 oz will still work for smaller hands (7.5")?

  • @adrianclara4078
    @adrianclara4078 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Which glove would you choose between winning and phenom for costal and sparring use and why

  • @aboodalbaqshi194
    @aboodalbaqshi194 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey carlo . Great work .
    Wanted to ask if those glove are better than adidas adispeed ?

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks, I’d say comparable, it all comes down to feel and padding on preference and aesthetics

  • @mangiafuoco9523
    @mangiafuoco9523 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Fantastic review like always! Thanks to share with us your experience!! One question, which are the differences between these and sg200? Which is the most low profile and snug hand compartment? Thanks in advance

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The most snug is the 200, these are a little more pillowy and a better sparring glove imo

    • @mangiafuoco9523
      @mangiafuoco9523 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@csquaredboxing i really love the Guerrero hde-f and if they are similar i think they can be a good choice for me...light sparring and heavy bags. For normal sparring i will use the winning 16 oz! Thanks my friend

  • @Boxingboxing-l7j
    @Boxingboxing-l7j 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Carlos, awesome video. These or Rival RS1 Ultra 2.0?

  • @ProductiveSt0n3r
    @ProductiveSt0n3r 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello love the channel !! Just wondering I was looking for a new glove and was wondering would you rather get these phenom gloves or would you rather get the superare s40 gloves ? They are both around the same price. Thank you !

  • @acorigen123
    @acorigen123 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Would you recommend this or the cleto reyes sparring glove?

    • @MK1BNGO
      @MK1BNGO 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Was about to ask the same thing

    • @Notfakeultra
      @Notfakeultra 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MK1BNGOyour sparring partner would rather get hit with phenoms. Nobody likes those brick reyes

  • @victorlecodes
    @victorlecodes ปีที่แล้ว +2

    How do these compare to fortress boxing gloves for sparring?

  • @NACNUD1986
    @NACNUD1986 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi mate
    I’m torn between these phenom SG210 and Adidas Tilt 350 , I prefer a more compact glove for sparing and wrist protection is important for an injury , which would you prefer / choose ?
    Thanks in advance much appreciated 🥊

  • @ace11679
    @ace11679 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love the review….. I want to get some for my son. His hand measures 8”, and size chart says get 12oz. My question to you is if he wears quick hand wraps will the 12oz be to tight? Or should I go with 14oz.
    Any help would be appreciated! Thanks

  • @tysonisanobody
    @tysonisanobody 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hey Carlo, keep up the great content,
    yeah man, I fell in love with Phenom after watching your reviews on the SG200s,
    in my teammates like them, they describe it as Winning-like comfort and premium feel in a Reyes-like shape and fit.
    I copped myself 2 pairs of the SG210s, in white 16oz for sparring and 14oz for mitts & bagwork.

    • @vascolopes6928
      @vascolopes6928 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Which ones do you prefer the SG200 or the SG210?

    • @JL-qz1ql
      @JL-qz1ql 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@vascolopes6928 yeah interested to know what's the difference too..

    • @tysonisanobody
      @tysonisanobody 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@vascolopes6928 , it's a tough one, It's basically 7-UP or Sprite
      (jokes aside)
      There's some small minor differences, The cuff on the SG200 is a little more tapered cone shape , so it's a bit more snug.
      But the SG210 has a different type of comfort in the hand compartment.
      Overall both are excellent gloves, 10/10 quality for me.
      Alot of my teammates really like it,
      They mention how Julio Cesar Chavez wore them in his more recent IG posts.

  • @jamesferryman3679
    @jamesferryman3679 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Carlo, really appreciate your videos. I'm looking for an 18oz glove and I've been considering these. I'm 6'1, 100kg, very strong with lots of muscle, and I hit hard. The issue I have is that my hands aren't particularly large, and the circumference is around 8.5in. I need a heavier glove to protect my hands, particularly for bag work. Would you recommend these or something else? Struggling to find a good quality 18oz glove that will fit. Thanks!

  • @guywithtrash231
    @guywithtrash231 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Would you say fly superlace x or these gloves are more compact in their profile?

  • @elijahtoppersons7827
    @elijahtoppersons7827 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey man good videos what are your top 3 gloves I’m going to get new ones but I don’t know why I should get

    • @timm5970
      @timm5970 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Budget?

    • @elijahtoppersons7827
      @elijahtoppersons7827 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@timm5970 any thing 300 and lower probably

    • @Summit15
      @Summit15 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Get the everlast prostyle gloves their the best

    • @timm5970
      @timm5970 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Summit15 everlast is ass

  • @douglaspetroff5124
    @douglaspetroff5124 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Carlo. Big fan of the channel! I was just wondering what gloves are generally roomier around the thumb seam? I have Topboxer Win1 16oz and Rival RB50 XL, but both still cause cramping after awhile in my palm around the thumb seam. I'm looking for a lightweight glove for bag work that I can still wear wraps with. Thank you!

  • @karimgonzalez9551
    @karimgonzalez9551 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Phenom Sg 210 or Fly X for 14 Oz ?

  • @AnthonyMazzarella
    @AnthonyMazzarella 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    What's the main difference between the 200 and 210s

  • @isaacnelsen8977
    @isaacnelsen8977 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thinking about trying the new sg 202. I like the purple haha. Any plans to review those?

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes coming soon

    • @hugh2882
      @hugh2882 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@csquaredboxing i want to buy one of phenoms sparring gloves but theres literally just a £10 difference between their sg 210 and sg 202 making it rlly hard to choose. so if you could compare the two a bit in the video that would be great. i also messaged phenom and they said the sg 202 are an improved version of the sg 200.

  • @arceflame
    @arceflame 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Should i get these or the All Day Balance Pro Laced? 16oz for overall work mainly for Sparring

    • @dvdvdvu
      @dvdvdvu 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      these bro they mad sexy

  • @KingKing-bc6nb
    @KingKing-bc6nb 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    These or mk1 ? I want to order a whole new set of sparring gear, wondering what u think

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That’s a hard one, can’t go wrong with either

  • @lloyd9259
    @lloyd9259 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Carlo! between this SG-210 or Fly Superlace x 16 Oz which do you like more for sparring? cheers

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  ปีที่แล้ว

      Sg210

    • @yaboijonnydaplug2251
      @yaboijonnydaplug2251 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@csquaredboxinghad a question why do you say phenoms , i don’t know what to get I want too get flys bc I already know how they feel they have good feedback but also are protective but they don’t have the color way I really want , on the other hand phenoms have the color way I want but I never tried them and I don’t know if there too padded with no feedback for sparring

  • @Boxingboxing-l7j
    @Boxingboxing-l7j 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    These or fortress lace? And why? Seen some of your comments, some u commented these, some u commented fortress. Kinda confused.. thanks Carlos!

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      They’re both great, sometimes I recommend the fortress for those who want that extra wrist support from the super strap. You can’t go wrong either way

    • @Boxingboxing-l7j
      @Boxingboxing-l7j 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Now I get it. Thanks!

  • @BrandenC23
    @BrandenC23 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey how's it going brother, curious which would you choose to prefer for bag work these or the xdt-200S?

  • @plzebelivit
    @plzebelivit 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Went with these cause of ur recommendation

  • @jaysboxingchannel6233
    @jaysboxingchannel6233 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    are these 14oz tight on your hands? I am 5'7" 152lbs and i am confused whether i should get 14 or 16oz. I have a pair of reyes 14 oz that fit fine, 16oz powerlocks that fit perfect ,14 oz powerlocks that are too tight and 18oz powerlocks that fit well but with a little extra room.

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I’d say they’re snug, go with 16

    • @jaysboxingchannel6233
      @jaysboxingchannel6233 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@csquaredboxing appreciate it man, have a happy new year!!!

  • @michaelrivera9072
    @michaelrivera9072 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    How does the liner compare to TopBoxer’s? Aesthetically on camera and photos the look slightly similar, but wondering if the feel is as well?

  • @MK1BNGO
    @MK1BNGO 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How does the leather hold up against the cleto?

  • @andrewnguyen3634
    @andrewnguyen3634 ปีที่แล้ว

    Are phenom gloves made in Pakistan?

  • @billypatrick3847
    @billypatrick3847 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I’m in between these and the fly x line for a trainer/ sparring glove. What would you recommend?

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      these

    • @bmcormick13
      @bmcormick13 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Came here to ask the same question hahah

    • @billypatrick3847
      @billypatrick3847 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks Carlos! You and boxupnation said the same thing. I ended up buying these and they will be here Thursday.

    • @bmcormick13
      @bmcormick13 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@billypatrick3847 well how are they?

    • @billypatrick3847
      @billypatrick3847 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@bmcormick13 I like them so far. Very comfortable and quality is top notch. I bought the 14 oz Velcro version because I use them as a training glove rather than a sparring glove. They are great bag gloves as well ( I use a 120 lb Aqua bag mostly).

  • @jvs8612
    @jvs8612 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Purchased a pair and mines got a little bubbling at the logo, is that going to be a problem in the long run or is it just gonna affect the looks?

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think it’s just the aesthetic and you’ll be fine

  • @leetian2748
    @leetian2748 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    compared with fly and winning is it better?

  • @simmyjer
    @simmyjer ปีที่แล้ว

    Would you recommend Phenoms or TopBoxer?

  • @Prav33n_A
    @Prav33n_A 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would you prefer these over Adidas TILT 350??

  • @jiexu3384
    @jiexu3384 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    They are gorgeous!

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      💯

    • @jiexu3384
      @jiexu3384 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@csquaredboxing gonna have a pair oneday

  • @karimgonzalez9551
    @karimgonzalez9551 ปีที่แล้ว

    Phenom sg 210 or the more expensive Hit n move balance for sparring?

    • @michaelaguilar4578
      @michaelaguilar4578 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I have both, phenoms better

    • @karimgonzalez9551
      @karimgonzalez9551 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@michaelaguilar4578 What mames phenom better than hitnn move and also what Oz you got

  • @Account-kv1zr
    @Account-kv1zr 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    How do u feel these would compare to the cello Reyes sparring gloves

  • @javierdavalos350
    @javierdavalos350 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mk1 or the phenom?

  • @satellite3253
    @satellite3253 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    These or Elion Paris gloves?

  • @o_o7440
    @o_o7440 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Rival Rs100 or these. What would you choose?

  • @saucyykev
    @saucyykev 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What is the better choice, these or the fly super lace X??

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      These

    • @saucyykev
      @saucyykev 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@csquaredboxing thanks for the reply man

  • @bledicipi8021
    @bledicipi8021 ปีที่แล้ว

    These over the pro mex 3.0?

  • @gerikomontefalcon
    @gerikomontefalcon 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    For sparring what do you suggest? Fortress SS or These?

  • @adamwhite9299
    @adamwhite9299 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Are these better than the Superare S50 for protecting the sparring partner?

  • @Mr.Mayhem2
    @Mr.Mayhem2 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would you pick this ones over Adidas Adispeed ones?

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes

    • @Prav33n_A
      @Prav33n_A 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey came to ask almost the same. These or Adidas TILT 350?

  • @zarbon389
    @zarbon389 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is the lining similar to the Phenom xrt 220 bag gloves? When I say lining I mean the inside of the glove

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      it’s the same liner yes

    • @zarbon389
      @zarbon389 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@csquaredboxing Thank you!

  • @hairyplotter1121
    @hairyplotter1121 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’ve never had a pair of lace up gloves for training are they easy to put on by yourself or do you need someone to tie them for you?

    • @timm5970
      @timm5970 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      you have to get lace and loop attachments to do it yourself. Lace ups are definitely nicer to use

    • @kevinfrankham2219
      @kevinfrankham2219 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Lace converter works good and lace feels better than velcro

  • @georgesavvidis2234
    @georgesavvidis2234 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    These or Rival Guerrero for sparring?

  • @UlTiMaTeSh0tZ
    @UlTiMaTeSh0tZ 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    These or the fortress gloves ? Looking at both in Velcro

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      these

    • @UlTiMaTeSh0tZ
      @UlTiMaTeSh0tZ 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@csquaredboxing that's good to hear! do you rate this as one of the best gloves you've reviewed? I know you rate the fortress gloves as the best sparring gloves

  • @alexdflimmo
    @alexdflimmo ปีที่แล้ว

    will this fit for muaythai?

  • @erickirchhoff924
    @erickirchhoff924 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It’s not about feeling like they fit. Ounces are meant for certain things like 16 oz are for sparring. You don’t use 14 oz for sparring. So actually those 14 oz aren’t “great for sparring” great way to hurt somebody sparring with lighter gloves. Great review 👍🏻

    • @ConnorTierney
      @ConnorTierney 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That’s such a generalized statement. Someone who is 150lbs or under can 100% use 14oz glove for sparring. You can use 14oz sparring gloves if you’re heavier, only if you’re doing technical or touch type sparring

    • @williamoldman7963
      @williamoldman7963 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Over generalisation. Some 14s or even 12s will be fine for sparring for lighter people.

  • @mugdho2494
    @mugdho2494 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    do a review on Conor McGregor's McGregor Fast MMA gloves white 😂 he advertises them so much but i did not find any review on TH-cam 😂

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      i don’t do mma so won’t review them

    • @mugdho2494
      @mugdho2494 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@csquaredboxing ok ma man

  • @o_o7440
    @o_o7440 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fly X line or these?

  • @jdo09171
    @jdo09171 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    These or fortress 2.0 lace?

  • @josercar1
    @josercar1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just received these. They are fantastic!

  • @tacorevenge87
    @tacorevenge87 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Jc Chavez sr wears phenom now days

  • @yaseen3180
    @yaseen3180 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    These or the rival rs100 and rs1 2.0

  • @timm5970
    @timm5970 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    are those genuine leather?

    • @csquaredboxing
      @csquaredboxing  3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      did you watch the video?

    • @timm5970
      @timm5970 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@csquaredboxing kind of lol. People were talking to me at the same time. Ill rewatch

    • @timm5970
      @timm5970 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@csquaredboxing so these and flys are both uk made. At a similar price point theres these and the fly x line. Are the flys nicer even though they are synthetic?