Great overview here and a handy reminder, though you do have to be careful when applying the second point. While optimising your shooting efficiency is a good rule of thumb, many people can take it too far and will not shoot high threat targets because it isn’t as ‘efficient’ with how their weapon profiles stack up. Meanwhile they might be about to lose a bunch of VP because of a threatened objective/unit etc. A good example is min/max people entirely ignoring Mortarion because the expected damage is too low, but then he just takes the centre and crushes your army. So it goes without saying that a nuanced approach matters!
Sometimes that's correct, though. I faced Mortarion three games in a row at a recent tournament and never fired a single shot at him, because I did not have the tools to take him down, so the choice was between hurting him and killing nothing, or leaving him untouched and killing other stuff. Option 2 was obviously correct. Yes, it leaves him free to go marauding, but that's not a choice I get to make - he was going to do that whether I shot at him or not, so better to build a plan around the fact he's going to do that, than stand in front of the freight train and hope for a result other than the inevitable ;-)
Dang bro, you're really pumping these videos out. I greatly appreciate it! I've been too impatient for my core book and codexes to mail to me. Luckily I got your stuff to binge until then
Honestly, as a mainly Space Wolves player, Heroic Intervention is something I've had to make sure I understand. Main point to remember; the charge phase happens whether your opponent actually charges anything or not. Even if they don't, you can still intervene.
Brilliant! That's straight up an extra 3" to get a char into an existing combat. Maybe a situation where you advanced the character on your turn, because the charge was too far. No come their turn, you can slide him up the last 1-3" to get them in. Nice!
Thanks for the tips. Very helpful for a newish player like me. I’ve always thought that GW should change the cover rules so you have to take saves on the models outside of cover first. Makes more sense logically and thematically and would mean you couldn’t do gamey things like in the last part of your video. Just my opinion. Cheers
Trevvy - a video on tactics/ certain play styles vs top teir armys with nids current codex would be great :D I’m hitting a wall atm with nids … my last three games I’ve hit orks and my word, t5 and bodies is tough I find for us
A mistake I think I've been making is using the Necron Command Protocol to add Light Cover if I don't move at all on turn one. While this is great if you're opponent goes first, if not, there isn't much you can do. I'd say it's better to save for round 3 or 4. But I'm new, so I don't know much yet.
I played a game the other the day and started to perform the "inload data" action on an objective marker, which would finish at the end of the next turn/battleround. My opponent took control of the objective marker before my action had finished and insisted that the action then would fail, despite my unit performing the action was still alive and had not moved. Any thoughts on this?
I learned a lot in this video. Keep on the great work. Do you have any videos about how light cover exactly works, I think I am always getting this wrong.Thanks
If one base is in Cover but the other units not, and you got attacked by like 20 dice, then every dice have to deal with Cover? Even if the base thats in Cover will die, and maybe some others?
At 5:40 doesn't a squad have to finish all it's attacks before another starts? So you can't shoot the plasma from the marine squad, then the multi meltas from the devestators then back to the bolters on the marines?
question: what if you have a 5 model unit and one of then is within cover that gives you -1 to hit? When the enemy shoots to that unit it has to take the -1 to hit? or only if that model is alive but in the moment he dies then the subsequents shots are normal? they shoot you regulary bc not all the models in the unit are in cover?
if the attacking models can draw LOF to any model that doesn't go thru Dense cover than they ignore it; so if only one defender is in Dense it doesn't affect the unit
How do you move into the building in the last clip? Can the last guy exit with the group or does he have to move around the wall first( if he doesn't die in there)
Wait heroic intervention does surely make you untargetable to melee attacks if you intervene into a unit that charged as the charging unit can only attack what they charged right? The opposing unit can only attack back if it didn't charge?
No; per the "select targets" step of the fight phase: "Attacks made by models in units that made a charge move this turn can only target enemy units that their unit declared a charge against, or that performed a Heroic Intervention this turn."
@@TacticalTortoise Wow, has it always been like that or is that new in 9th? I always thought the whole point of herioc interventation is to put a character nearby to protect a unit by intervening with impunity lol.
Wow, those cover tricks are so counter-intuitive it feels dirty. But GW is to blame for making the rules that way, hopefully they clean that up in 10th.
Armor saves are taken in the order in which the attacks are made, but the unit's controlling player can assign them to whatever model they want (with the caveat that each model has to keep taking them until it dies).
A lot of useful info here, but I really disagree with your points on cover. Determining it on a per-model basis really slows the game down with too much minutia, so it really should be an all-or-nothing thing (I don't care what GW says on the matter either)
@@theviewbot I've always played it as if you can see the entirety of one model in the unit, no cover. If you can only see part of it, cover. That way if they allocate the damage correctly only one attack could go through
I really liked the last tip about sneaking some models over and use the cover benefits, but what he is showing would technically not work, unless you and your opponent agree that the models don't need to be wholly within the terrain feature. Since the rules tell you that models have to be wholly within the terrain features "footprint". But he could technically still get at least 3 models into cover the way he is doing that squad. Since you only need to be in coherency with 1 other model when your unit consists of 5 or fewer models.
First tip... "your first instinct is to shoot at it with your big guns first" uh... No. I feel like you have to be really bad to make this mistake. I will routinely try to pick off stuff like that with lasguns before I waste a real gun on a single wound.
Nice video but imo, I can't stand those objective markers, not having a physical model there to be taking also kind of removes any tactical play of putting the objective in the way of enemies for fights and the like, as well as them just looking lame despite any nifty art on them, dunno, irks me seeing them all over the place.
True, but not really relevant to the video; you can perform all the attacks from one of your units that target the same enemy in whatever order you like, as long as you group like profiles. The point of the segment is that players often roll those grouped shots in a suboptimal order.
@@TacticalTortoise i would say it's pretty relevant if the plays you're suggesting are against the rules. Like, at about 6:00 it very much seems like you're saying to *not* follow the rule that says weapons must be grouped by profile when shooting.
Great overview here and a handy reminder, though you do have to be careful when applying the second point. While optimising your shooting efficiency is a good rule of thumb, many people can take it too far and will not shoot high threat targets because it isn’t as ‘efficient’ with how their weapon profiles stack up. Meanwhile they might be about to lose a bunch of VP because of a threatened objective/unit etc. A good example is min/max people entirely ignoring Mortarion because the expected damage is too low, but then he just takes the centre and crushes your army. So it goes without saying that a nuanced approach matters!
Sometimes that's correct, though. I faced Mortarion three games in a row at a recent tournament and never fired a single shot at him, because I did not have the tools to take him down, so the choice was between hurting him and killing nothing, or leaving him untouched and killing other stuff. Option 2 was obviously correct. Yes, it leaves him free to go marauding, but that's not a choice I get to make - he was going to do that whether I shot at him or not, so better to build a plan around the fact he's going to do that, than stand in front of the freight train and hope for a result other than the inevitable ;-)
"3 inches is hell when used correctly" -Trevy, 2021
It's not the size of the Pile In/Consolidate that counts.
It's how you use it.
This was helpful! I really didn’t know the cover trick in that case because I’m used to playing games of “are they in cover or not” as a unit
Dang bro, you're really pumping these videos out. I greatly appreciate it! I've been too impatient for my core book and codexes to mail to me.
Luckily I got your stuff to binge until then
Honestly, as a mainly Space Wolves player, Heroic Intervention is something I've had to make sure I understand. Main point to remember; the charge phase happens whether your opponent actually charges anything or not. Even if they don't, you can still intervene.
Brilliant! That's straight up an extra 3" to get a char into an existing combat. Maybe a situation where you advanced the character on your turn, because the charge was too far. No come their turn, you can slide him up the last 1-3" to get them in. Nice!
Thanks for the tips. Very helpful for a newish player like me. I’ve always thought that GW should change the cover rules so you have to take saves on the models outside of cover first. Makes more sense logically and thematically and would mean you couldn’t do gamey things like in the last part of your video. Just my opinion. Cheers
Trevvy - a video on tactics/ certain play styles vs top teir armys with nids current codex would be great :D
I’m hitting a wall atm with nids … my last three games I’ve hit orks and my word, t5 and bodies is tough I find for us
A mistake I think I've been making is using the Necron Command Protocol to add Light Cover if I don't move at all on turn one.
While this is great if you're opponent goes first, if not, there isn't much you can do.
I'd say it's better to save for round 3 or 4.
But I'm new, so I don't know much yet.
Amazing tips, and incidentally a really great rules overview. Thanks for this video!
i am guilty of the last one. but i wont feel too bad about it since my hormagaunts bread and butter is abusing pile ins with their bounding leap :)
Yes! More tactics! Sister of Battle next please!!
Yes these videos are super helpful. Especially for new players like myself.
Glad it helps!
I've been playing 40k since '99, but 9th ed is only a year old. So, we're all new players in a way.
Wow. 9th is a monster of a game from 6th. Ty, i have never geard b4 about not always basing your opp
I played a game the other the day and started to perform the "inload data" action on an objective marker, which would finish at the end of the next turn/battleround. My opponent took control of the objective marker before my action had finished and insisted that the action then would fail, despite my unit performing the action was still alive and had not moved. Any thoughts on this?
Where does it say in the rule book that wounds have to be allocated to models that have already been wounded?
Great help, thank you!
Overkill vs split fire is a thing.
Fun fact, thousand sons do struggle against knights, weirdly.
I learned a lot in this video. Keep on the great work. Do you have any videos about how light cover exactly works, I think I am always getting this wrong.Thanks
If one base is in Cover but the other units not, and you got attacked by like 20 dice, then every dice have to deal with Cover? Even if the base thats in Cover will die, and maybe some others?
Thanks for this video!
Yes, please! More tactics!
At 5:40 doesn't a squad have to finish all it's attacks before another starts? So you can't shoot the plasma from the marine squad, then the multi meltas from the devestators then back to the bolters on the marines?
Correct; you'd fire all the Boltguns first, then the Plasma, then move to the Devastator squad and fire all their guns.
question: what if you have a 5 model unit and one of then is within cover that gives you -1 to hit? When the enemy shoots to that unit it has to take the -1 to hit? or only if that model is alive but in the moment he dies then the subsequents shots are normal? they shoot you regulary bc not all the models in the unit are in cover?
if the attacking models can draw LOF to any model that doesn't go thru Dense cover than they ignore it; so if only one defender is in Dense it doesn't affect the unit
@@TacticalTortoise Ty that clears it
How do you move into the building in the last clip? Can the last guy exit with the group or does he have to move around the wall first( if he doesn't die in there)
Do it more often :-) it’s really great
Tri point is belter 👌🏼
question to #3: you can charge unit A and consolidate into engagement range into unit B, with no charge announcements? wait what? :o
Yep
Combat movements (Pile, Consolidate, Intervention) ignore engagement range.
Always good content!!
Wait heroic intervention does surely make you untargetable to melee attacks if you intervene into a unit that charged as the charging unit can only attack what they charged right? The opposing unit can only attack back if it didn't charge?
No; per the "select targets" step of the fight phase:
"Attacks made by models in units that made a charge move this turn can only target enemy units that their unit declared a charge against, or that performed a Heroic Intervention this turn."
@@TacticalTortoise Wow, has it always been like that or is that new in 9th? I always thought the whole point of herioc interventation is to put a character nearby to protect a unit by intervening with impunity lol.
@@Octovol Its new for 9th in 8th if you weren't charged you weren't a target
@@Cadiaforever oh good, probably not come up that much for me then given the relatively few matches I've had so far. Cheers!
Nice, thanks
Technically in point 3 the multi melta was not tri pointed :) good vid tho
? Question, when consolidating or piling in, can you move a model over enemy or friendly bases ?
Nope
Keep up the great work.
Wow, those cover tricks are so counter-intuitive it feels dirty. But GW is to blame for making the rules that way, hopefully they clean that up in 10th.
Where specifically is the rule that things that let you consolidate in any direction can't be done if you are based??
Both Pile In and Consolidate movements require you to not be touching an enemy model, it's in the Core Rulebook.
@@jeremeylea4564 Nice!
what mod did you get those beautiful blood angels from?
They're just the basic models out of the Battleforged pack :)
I thought the target unit player got to select the order of armor saves.
Armor saves are taken in the order in which the attacks are made, but the unit's controlling player can assign them to whatever model they want (with the caveat that each model has to keep taking them until it dies).
@@TacticalTortoise Okay, thanks. I missed that one. It is one reason why rapidly changing editions suck.
im part of a new gaming channel just starting called "command battle win" - if you want to see some mistakes and need inspiration, just watch them ha!
Tactixx!
A lot of useful info here, but I really disagree with your points on cover. Determining it on a per-model basis really slows the game down with too much minutia, so it really should be an all-or-nothing thing (I don't care what GW says on the matter either)
@@theviewbot I've always played it as if you can see the entirety of one model in the unit, no cover. If you can only see part of it, cover. That way if they allocate the damage correctly only one attack could go through
I really liked the last tip about sneaking some models over and use the cover benefits, but what he is showing would technically not work, unless you and your opponent agree that the models don't need to be wholly within the terrain feature. Since the rules tell you that models have to be wholly within the terrain features "footprint". But he could technically still get at least 3 models into cover the way he is doing that squad. Since you only need to be in coherency with 1 other model when your unit consists of 5 or fewer models.
Wrong; you only need to be "within" (which is touching with any part of your base) an Area Terrain feature to get cover from it.
First tip... "your first instinct is to shoot at it with your big guns first" uh... No. I feel like you have to be really bad to make this mistake.
I will routinely try to pick off stuff like that with lasguns before I waste a real gun on a single wound.
That's good practice! Not everyone remembers to tho xD
plasma should be an auto wound if hit like how a flamer auto hits
Nice video but imo, I can't stand those objective markers, not having a physical model there to be taking also kind of removes any tactical play of putting the objective in the way of enemies for fights and the like, as well as them just looking lame despite any nifty art on them, dunno, irks me seeing them all over the place.
Hey uhhhhh anybody wanna play 40k on TTS?
A Redemptor can't have a Plasma and a Heavy Onslaught, it's just a regular Onslaught.
Mentor Legion though right …
Technically you got a hell of a lot of that wrong =/
You've neglected the fact that all models in a unit have to declare their shots before rolling and interactions.
True, but not really relevant to the video; you can perform all the attacks from one of your units that target the same enemy in whatever order you like, as long as you group like profiles. The point of the segment is that players often roll those grouped shots in a suboptimal order.
@@TacticalTortoise i would say it's pretty relevant if the plays you're suggesting are against the rules. Like, at about 6:00 it very much seems like you're saying to *not* follow the rule that says weapons must be grouped by profile when shooting.
At 6:00 I'm just suggesting to fire the boltguns first, then the Plasma after.
I describe how like attacks have to be sequenced at 2:45. :)
That isn’t relevant though, you just declare the storm bolters as aiming towards the terminators? I don’t understand your point