my word these lectures are first class given with seriousness, occasional wit and lovely minor anecdotes. hats off to those who arranged and promoted it on youtube
27:40 - "The reason that transcends all others in explaining the failure of the Marne was the extraordinary and peculiar aptitude of the French soldier to recover quickly. Most soldiers will let themselves be killed where they stand; that after all is a given in all war plans. But that men who have retreated for ten days, men who have slept on the ground half dead with fatigue, should have the strength to take up their rifles and attack when the bugle sounds, that is a thing upon which we never counted. That is a thing that we never spoke about in our war academies."
One of the many good things about these lectures is it gives good ideas for excellent modern books to buy on WW1. I just added another book to buy on my list.
Was the BEF really the winner of the Battle of the Marne ? French Army in 1914 : - 46 active divisions, around 1,000,000 men - 21 Chasseurs battalions (elite), around 25,000 men. - 10 cavalry divisions, around 100,000 men - 30 reserve divisions, around 700,000 men - 12 territorials divisions, around 250,000 men - 3,800 75mm guns + 300 heavy guns Total : ~ 2,000,000 men British Army in 1914 : - 6 divisions - 1 cavalry division - 300 light old and rusty guns Total : ~120,000 men
The BEF happened to be at the right time and place at the Marne and it did make a big difference. Churchill himself stated that they accidentally fumbled their way into the german liver.
What about the Belgians - they were crucial. This was an amazing coalition of 3 Nations coming together and cooperating, in the most frenzied intense conditions in history - it's something to be admired
We Brits ourselves have always been pretty modest about this. Even Liddell-Hart (writing in 1930) was pretty clear that this was all a happy accident, and that, had French shown a bit more oomph, the course of the war might have been more decisively settled. The set of myths that I find hard to resolve are about the well-publicised role of Churchill's 3000 British marines disembarking at Dunkirk, and the infamous "snow on their boots" British newspaper reports, based on a railway porter's account, of a Russian expeditionary force apparently moving through London. Whether news of either actually reached von Moltke is hard to say.
Great introduction. Clear and concise and well delivered. Great speaker on a really important part of the campaign. Canadian soldiers in my ancestry 19th CEF and I visited the excellent museum in Calgary too. 🇮🇪
Pappa Joffre.... The true measure of a military commander is not that he makes mistakes..... but how he responds to those mistakes. France and the Entante were lucky in Joffre.
True. He made big mistakes before, and after, but had precisely the qualities the french high command lacks most in 1940 : cold blood, resilience to pressure, no panic.
@@bobylapointe8784 That's a stretch.Every military power on the planet, if in France's position in World War II, would have lost in exactly the same way and been occupied. The Nazi regime had been allocating its entire GDP to military spending, for many years, no other country could do that to its population.That's tthe difference between a totally fascist state, a hybrid one and on the other extreme, a democratic state
I knew about the collective punishment of civilians in Belgium but in all my reading had never heard about the stealing of laborers. That's a particularly sad preview of Axis practices.
The Germans expected the Belgians to let them go through without a fight, the useless and unexpected but valiant Belgian resistance delayed them enough to make the plan fail... but it was a brilliant idea.
I am still left with the question -- Did leadership 'know' what kind of weaponry and the volume of resupply (industrial) was available to all sides? I guess that would be asking to anticipate the amount of deaths. Thanks for this posting. Before my life is over, I do wish to visit a site (Fort Douaumont or a Marne tour (1st battle) as discussed here). I was unaware of the Missouri. If a big trip across the ocean could not be taken, then surely a trip to Missouri can happen.
WTF? The Marne was a clear French victory. All The Germans had achieved by their offensive was the overrun of some of France's main industrial areas. Not nothing, but no sort of justification of their costly offensive.
my word these lectures are first class given with seriousness, occasional wit and lovely minor anecdotes. hats off to those who arranged and promoted it on youtube
27:40 - "The reason that transcends all others in explaining the failure of the Marne was the extraordinary and peculiar aptitude of the French soldier to recover quickly. Most soldiers will let themselves be killed where they stand; that after all is a given in all war plans. But that men who have retreated for ten days, men who have slept on the ground half dead with fatigue, should have the strength to take up their rifles and attack when the bugle sounds, that is a thing upon which we never counted. That is a thing that we never spoke about in our war academies."
One of the many good things about these lectures is it gives good ideas for excellent modern books to buy on WW1. I just added another book to buy on my list.
Was the BEF really the winner of the Battle of the Marne ?
French Army in 1914 :
- 46 active divisions, around 1,000,000 men
- 21 Chasseurs battalions (elite), around 25,000 men.
- 10 cavalry divisions, around 100,000 men
- 30 reserve divisions, around 700,000 men
- 12 territorials divisions, around 250,000 men
- 3,800 75mm guns + 300 heavy guns
Total : ~ 2,000,000 men
British Army in 1914 :
- 6 divisions
- 1 cavalry division
- 300 light old and rusty guns
Total : ~120,000 men
The BEF happened to be at the right time and place at the Marne and it did make a big difference.
Churchill himself stated that they accidentally fumbled their way into the german liver.
What about the Belgians - they were crucial. This was an amazing coalition of 3 Nations coming together and cooperating, in the most frenzied intense conditions in history - it's something to be admired
We Brits ourselves have always been pretty modest about this. Even Liddell-Hart (writing in 1930) was pretty clear that this was all a happy accident, and that, had French shown a bit more oomph, the course of the war might have been more decisively settled. The set of myths that I find hard to resolve are about the well-publicised role of Churchill's 3000 British marines disembarking at Dunkirk, and the infamous "snow on their boots" British newspaper reports, based on a railway porter's account, of a Russian expeditionary force apparently moving through London. Whether news of either actually reached von Moltke is hard to say.
Great introduction. Clear and concise and well delivered. Great speaker on a really important part of the campaign. Canadian soldiers in my ancestry 19th CEF and I visited the excellent museum in Calgary too. 🇮🇪
Your lecture Professor is very moving.Thank you so much for it.
I have got his book, so its great to see him in person!
This is a superb lecture - thanks.
Pappa Joffre....
The true measure of a military commander is not that he makes mistakes..... but how he responds to those mistakes. France and the Entante were lucky in Joffre.
The right man in the right place at the right time.
His performance in 1915 however left a lot to be desired.
True. He made big mistakes before, and after, but had precisely the qualities the french high command lacks most in 1940 : cold blood, resilience to pressure, no panic.
@@bobylapointe8784 That's a stretch.Every military power on the planet, if in France's position in World War II, would have lost in exactly the same way and been occupied. The Nazi regime had been allocating its entire GDP to military spending, for many years, no other country could do that to its population.That's tthe difference between a totally fascist state, a hybrid one and on the other extreme, a democratic state
Very interesting presentation....thank you.
I knew about the collective punishment of civilians in Belgium but in all my reading had never heard about the stealing of laborers. That's a particularly sad preview of Axis practices.
That's my grandpa
He’s all of our grampas yes
Great speaker!
Excellent lecture! Going to get the book.
Excellent presentation
Very good lecture!
Holger tells a very good story he knows is stuff
THe free audio book "Guns of August" tells of the beginning of the war up to the Marne. Amazing book well worth reading or listening!
I cannot believe that General Sir John French was hesitant. No sir, when was he ever hesitant?
We will never learn. The people who can tell us are already dead, and the living feel too ashamed.
He must have experienced "Operation Gomorrah", the firebombing of Hamburg in July 1943.
Interesting
The Germans expected the Belgians to let them go through without a fight, the useless and unexpected but valiant Belgian resistance delayed them enough to make the plan fail... but it was a brilliant idea.
I am still left with the question -- Did leadership 'know' what kind of weaponry and the volume of resupply (industrial) was available to all sides? I guess that would be asking to anticipate the amount of deaths.
Thanks for this posting.
Before my life is over, I do wish to visit a site (Fort Douaumont or a Marne tour (1st battle) as discussed here).
I was unaware of the Missouri. If a big trip across the ocean could not be taken, then surely a trip to Missouri can happen.
Short answer no. Mostly because both sides were sure to win in a fast campaign. In fact the central empires lose mostly because of starving
Why are there bots on a WW1 talk? Very strange…
Not at all
Great vid but I disagree with the great Professor Herwig on several points about the closeness of this battle.
Alexander Haig?
Slip of the tongue perhaps? He got it right at the end
54:48
Well, the Kaiser and Moltke might have surrendered against Alexander Haig. After all, he would have been totally in control, there. xd
A draw?
WTF?
The Marne was a clear French victory.
All The Germans had achieved by their offensive was the overrun of some of France's main industrial areas.
Not nothing, but no sort of justification of their costly offensive.
Eloquent except the prononciation of "poilu"
There was no Schlieffen Plan.
He knows this.
Why does he insist on misleading his audience?
Eh what ?
define plan?
I have got his book, so its great to see him in person!