My great uncle served with 2 KOSB at Mons and was killed in the counterattack across the canal. Thank you for keeping his and his comrades’ memory alive.
That "Contemptible little army" as Wilhelm II called them, knocked them back on their heels hard at Mons. Bad ass ppl. Wouldn't expect any less from reiver stock.
My great grand uncle Lt Vincent Fox was KIA on 26th August during the battle of Le Cateau. He was the first veterinary surgeon to be killed in action in WW1 and was treating humans (not animals) inside a church in Audencourt France.
My grandfather was there with the North irish horse. Survived the war and fought in the second world war and got blinded in it. Pre ww1 in the Enniskillen horse uvf carsons army. And between the two wars B/specials and royal ulster constabulary. Lived to 82 On my parents wedding certificate in 1956 he give his occupation as a soldier at 80 years old. What a man. He was in A squadron. Lest we forget ❤
My great grand father was killed in Mons. He was a veteran of the second Boar war and thereafter a Reserve solider. So aged 36 and married with two young daughters fell in the street fighting in the town. He is still there.
My grandfather and his brothers from Belfast became known in the local press as ‘The 4 Soldier Sons’. The eldest, Richard Ruddy, had joined the 1st Bttln Royal Irish Fusiliers in 1908, William Ruddy had joined the 2nd Bttln Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers in 1913. Then in August 1914, my grandfather, Jacob Ruddy joined the 4th (Service) and later 1st Bttln Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, with youngest brother Joseph joining a week later and serving in the 5th (Service) then 2nd Bttln Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. William with 2 R. Innis. Fus. marched through the night to reach their position just west of the village of Esnes, near Le Cateau and as they set up to brew tea at 6am, they were suddenly raked by German machine gun fire. At 12 o’clock, a dispatch rider found William wounded and tried repeatedly to get him onto his horse, but a German artillery barrage began ripping the road up, and the dispatch rider had to flee, William’s body was never found. His elder brother, Richard, with 1 R. Irish Fus. were just about a mile to the east of the Inniskillings and their war diary confirms hearing the machine gun attack to their left at 6am and the artillery barrage at 12 o’clock. These Irish troops had been rushed forward and told to hold the left flank without any medical, engineering or signals support. I can only imagine what Richard was thinking as he could hear his brother’s unit being attacked and overrun. That night, Richard found himself behind the lines and was taken PoW. He was held at Doberitz PoW camp in Berlin for most of the war, then moved to Chemnitz PoW camp in Saxony in 1918. He emigrated to Canada in 1926. My grandfather, Jacob, with 1 R. Innis. Fus., first served at Gallipoli, where he was shot through the left forearm, then was wounded twice more in France. I have a photograph of him in the trenches at the Battle of Cambrai in November 1917. He survived from 1914 until August 1918 in the infantry. Some miracle. His younger brother, Joseph, with 2 R. Innis. Fus. took 22 machine gun bullets to his left leg and survived, was invalided out of the Army and walked with a cane until he died. He had returned to Belfast to find that his sweetheart had married someone else and he died unmarried in 1966. My grandfather also died that year, and the family had never known what happened to William, until two weeks before he died, whilst walking in Belfast, my grandfather bumped into the dispatch rider who had tried to save William. It took me many years to piece this story together, including getting PoW records from the Red Cross archives in Geneva. Through the Western Front Association, a member who collects photographs of soldiers from Ulster, recognising the name Ruddy, he sent me a copy of a newspaper article called ‘Four Soldier Sons’. To the family’s amazement, the photos of William and Richard who we had never seen before, showed William as the spitting double of myself at that age. The likeness is absolutely uncanny. My mother is in her 80s now and has been so delighted to be told the details of what her father and uncles had experienced. Thanks for reading.
That’s the first time I’ve properly understood that series of battles. Also the part character, human failings, strengths and happenstance played in the battle. Thank you for your detailed descriptions and clarity.
I listened to the whole of this, it was fascinating and I thoroughly enjoyed it and glad I found it or rather glad TH-cam pointed me in this direction. I will now be listen ing to more of your content. Consider myself a history buff particularly interested in The Hundreds Years war and The Mongol Conquests, but love learning about anything from Hastings up to the end of The War of the Roses and then from The Zulu wars and everything up to the present. Also enjoy learning about pre and post Roman invasion. The tribes had such great names The Ordivices, The Brigantes, The Trinovantes, The Catuvellauni. What fabulous stories our ancestors gifted to us. Lastly and most importantly it is my fervent hope that war remains something for Historians to write about and film makers to make films about. War belongs in the past. BTW Blair Paddy Mayne is my hero and should be posthumously awarded the VC.
Mons, 1914. Just over a thousand men of the 1st Battalion 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment faced two German divisions. The Cheshires managed to stop the German advance and came out of that battle with around 150 men left. Ever Glorious!
If they but knew that the proud county Regiment has been amalgamated to appease the bean counters all for the sake of some thoughtless moron in Whitehall. One of the oldest Regiments in the British Army, hundreds of years of tradition battle honours all doomed to be forgotten by an ungrateful government and the populace of the country who to be honest could not give a damn. I will never forget the time served with that glorious regiment I do my utmost to keep the memory alive. Pay a journey to Chester Castle and spend some time immersed in the memories of those brave gallant heroes who fought not for king and country but for the comradeship of the fellow soldiers fighting next to him. Ever glorious. Bob
@@robertmason323 same with Durham Light Infantry in Normandy 1944. Fought till it only existed as drivers and cooks. How joyful those men must have felt to by known only to God, when their last breaths would be thinking of their wives, girlfriends and children
My grandfather was captured at Le Cateau. He had joined the RA in 1905 but was transferred to the Lancs as a Lance Corporal during mobilisation. Fought at Mons, then Le Cateau and spent the next 4 years in a prison camp in Prussia.
My grandfather was conscripted to Wehrmacht in 1943. Stationed in Normandy. Managed to flee and joined the Polish army in GB. Returned to Poland in 1945. He was Polish as am I
Phil same as my grandfather he was 18years old serving in the Duke of Wellingtons. posted as MIA at the time of the battle but turned up as a wounded POW after being left behind by the retreating army with many others
@@southendmassive If he was 18 he wouldn't have been there. You had you be 19 to serve in action. He maybe lied about his age to attest, though, which was common enough.
@@bjorntorlarsson sorry for the delay in answering. Yes my Grandfather did speak of the camp conditions. In the final 18 months of the war the rations given were survival level so nearly all the British Prisoners were on the point of starvation by the time of repatriation. He said that the treatment of other nationalities was worse than that.
" *The men all chilled to the bone, almost too exhausted to move and with the depressing consciousness of defeat weighing heavily upon them. A bad defeat, there can be no gainsaying it ... we had been badly beaten, and by the English - by the English we had so laughed at a few hours before* " German novelist and infantry officer: Walter Bloem.
My grandfather from York, England, was in the Royal Horse Artillery supporting the cavalry division in the retreat from Mons in August 1914, and served throughout the war from 1914 to 1919 in France and briefly in 1917 in Italy. He was awarded the Military Medal for recovering a lost gun under heavy enemy fire in 1915. He passed away at the age of 89 in 1978. RIP Dearest Grandad ❤❤❤
Thank you Dr Jones and Western Front Association for a very informative presentation (and also to the audience for their questions, especially the FSR one.). Does make me wonder if Gen Smith-Dorrien had remained in post, would the doctrinal culture have been better positioned to develop cohesive combined arms doctrine; he just seems a bit less hidebound then his cavalryman contemporarys.
I'm a Yank. Having a hard time finding videos about Individual Battalions or Individual Divisions of the BEF or Germans. Suggestions appreciated, Thanks. Bless all Vets.
WOW!! Being comparing Dr Jones to the late great Prof Richard Holmes, that's really, really high praise indeed. "War Walks "is still the gold standard.
I am very grateful to see General Sir Hugh Smith-Dorrien's vital decision getting the recognition he, and the men, deserve. Haig's panic, let's be honest....Butcher Haig was crapping himself.....put the entire BEF at risk. Without S-D's decision to turn and fight the entire BEF could have been engulfed. Thank you for giving S-D and the men who fought at Le Cateau their well deserved credit.
This is why its so important for soldiers to be physically fit. Reading Lyn MacDonald’s books the BEF upped their physical training for weeks before this. Same in Ambrose’s Band Of Brothers the soldiers complained that all they did was run and exercise before going into action.
It was also given as one of the popular theories as to why the Infantry advanced so apparantly slowly against the German gun lines,which was that the replacements which by 1916,theywere mostly,were not physically fit enough to run the distances to the enemy trenches and still fight a battle
Half the BEF were far from fit - a lot of Reservists (Reservists were around half of each Battalion, give or take) were totally unfit, and that is before you factor in problems with boots which left a lot of them unable to march.
Fitness also came with age. It is believed that my wifes great uncle James Collins was killed at mons, he is buried at St Symphorien Cemetry. We believe him to be 13 when he signed up and just 14 when killed.
When I saw a photo of Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien for the first time, I thought to myself "that's the face of a fighter". Le Cateau certainly proves it and of Kitchener's choice for the replacement of Sir James Grierson as commander of II Corps. I'd like to add that at the time that Horace Smith-Dorrien was commanding II Corps in the BEF, Sir Edmund Allenby was in command of the Calvalry Division and therefore Smith-Dorrien was serving alongside the only general in the entire British Army who out-tempered him. Thank goodness they got along well during the early Western Front battles, especially at Le Cateau.
Horrace Smith Dorrien maybe the best General we ever had , he was not a fan of Attrition so was no good from 1915 onwards , but the retreat from Mons was very orderly , and stretched the Germans to the limit by the time they reached the French forces there were big gaps in the German line
"but the retreat from Mons was very orderly , and stretched the Germans to the limit by the time they reached the French forces there were big gaps in the German line" That is nonsense. Units performing an orderly retreat do not throw away equipment, esp. not engineering equipment that would be missed at Le Cateau. And an orderly retreat would have been covered by cav. and artillery....
@@olafkunert3714 I'd agree, it was a truly desperate fighting retreat that seriously threatened breaking the BEF. Smith-Dorrien made the right decisions, effectively forming a kamfgruppe with whatever units he could get hold of, and at the right time and place they stood fast, and as costly as that was were it allowed the needed breathing space to avoid being entirely crushed by von Kluck & Co.
Outstanding. Thank you for this. I have been fascinated by this campaign for many years, especially since reading the WWI-era book "The 1st Seven Divisions". Smith Dorrien has been a hero of mine for years and I enjoyed reading "The Man Who Disobeyed : Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien and His Enemies".
The General foreman building The Aeronautics bld at Southampton was an " Old Contemptible " called Wally Scot - I asked him if he had seen The angels at Mons - he laughed and told me, we ran as far as we could - then turned the Germans back with rapid fire with our Lee Enfields !
wonderful informative video thankyou for posting it , i often wonder how i would measure up against the toughness of that generation and my greatest fear is that i would fall well short.
On the morning of 1 September 1914 the German 4th Cavalry Division attacked 1st Cavalry Brigade and L Battery, who had been camped in the village of Néry. In the action that followed, L Battery, less for one gun, was all but destroyed. The 13-pounder gun manned by Captain Bradbury, WO2 Dorrell, Sergeant Nelson, and Gunners Osbourne and Darbyshire, managed to keep the single gun in action against the three German Batteries located a thousand yards away. The Artillery fire put down by this gun allowed the 1st Cavalry Brigade to deliver a successful Counter attack. For this action Captain Bradbury, WO2 Dorrell, Sergeant Nelson, were all awarded the Victoria Cross. On the anniversary L (Nery) Bty RHA fire one round at 06.00.
The BEF in Aug 1914 was a minor force on the Western front. The British where recruiting at good pace and the French where many many more (and in France). BEF was hit hard but even if it had compeltely dissapeared what mattered was that the French did not panic and that the Germans advancing through Belgium could not push on unoppsoed (as the BEF and French armies was between them and Paris).
Absolutely excellent ! I really enjoyed that. I have walked the Mons battlefields and retreat and watching this has made me want to get back out there and do it again...
The question that arises from this lecture is - If Smith-Dorrien had been appointed C-in-C of the BEF instead of French, would his command have reduced the WW1 butcher's bill incurred by French and Haig? Any regard for Haig is tainted by his back-stabbing and job-seeking collusion with French to ditch Smith-Dorrien.
I think this is a real 'what if' of the BEF. I think Smith-Dorrien would have avoided Haig's tendency to set over ambitious objectives and seek breakthroughs. But given Smith-Dorrien's ferocious temper I wonder how well he would have been able to manage to the delicate business of working with French allies and British politicians!
@@Defiance-uf4id As I understand it, Haig was a cavalry man who never let go of the fantasy of the "big breakthrough" of his horsemen's derring-do and the scared German Army running before them. The slog of meticulously planned, set-piece battles that finally broke the standoff was not to Haig's taste and another commander who was more business like might have shortened the war.
It is a myth unsupported by any facts that our Generals were butchers. Yes mistakes were made but your best chance of surviving the war was to be a British soldier and not French or German.
Interesting comment about issues with reserves dental fitness. Still a significant cause of concern wrt reservists at RTMC Chillwell 90-100 years later.
A problem that will get worse since our wonderful government saw fit to close a dentistry college in Southend not long ago. Probably in the interests of saving our NHS.
Fascinating .... tough being a Tommy in 1914. It was a stunning bloody nose for the Krauts and a retreat in order against overwhelming odds. Although I am not quite sure why it`s called a victory for the BEF,
Excellent. Thoroughly enjoyed. I had been struggling to get a more detailed text or documentary on the retreat from Mons. I am a novice armchair historian whose interest in The BEF 2nd core and Smith Dorrien was sparked by Sir Max Hastings Catastrophe and other snippets. Dorriens's sacking was always a mystery to me. He seemed to have borne the brunt of the Schiffen plan and nullified its effect on the war. My interest has been reignited and will dive into the books suggested. BTW. Was it true that Sir John was falling to pieces and wanted to run to the coast? His staff officers had to stiffen his resolve and talk him out of it?? Im fascinated by the characters involved.
French certainly wanted to pull the BEF out of the line. His thought process was very confused in August-September, and Lord Kitchener himself had to come out to France and tell him in no uncertain terms that the Army had to stay in the fight.
It is my understanding that Smith Dorrien was undermined by his perceived poor performance in 1914-15 and his unpopularity with several politically-powerful officers like Sir John French and Douglas Haig. It also should not be forgotten that it was not clear to the British in 1914-15 that Smith Dorrien had helped blunt the German offensive. To the British at the time, it looked like Smith Dorrien had basically lost his entire corps while surrendering a lot of ground to the Germans. His performance as time went on didn't seem to be any better, with heavy losses and no real victories to his name. It is only much later when historians could actually see how much damage he did to the Germans by accessing the German records, that we realize he was more successful than he seemed to be at the time.
@@genericpersonx333 history has that power. i feel that rommel is given this mastermind but his victories were against a thinned out and not inspired british army. supplies and montgomery changed all that.
@@dougmphilly Rommel also had all the British plans due to some US officer being careless with our secrets. The minute that was realised Rommel did not do much again.
I have fallen asleep while on the march, many times in fact, and I’m always surprised how soldiers in that state seem to stay in formation. Very odd thing.
If there's a stable rhythm, you don't need to be conscious 😆 (but it probably does require a road higher sides, so people fall back to the center of the road instead of off of it) I also would theorize that a sufficiently tired brain will grab any bit of sleep walking it can get - in other words, some things may change and open doors that normally are firmly shut
Saying someone dying before the battle, as did General 'Fatty' Grierson, left an Army II Corp leaderless is to suggest there was no-one to replace that fella, whether it be an understudy or someone coming up through the ranks. In all my career I realised long ago that no-one is irreplaceable. There is always someone who can replace YOU or that person that has left a position...from floor sweeper to Field Marshal. In many cases a replacement did a better or even more sterling work than the original. Outside of that it's an interesting discussion. Cheers!
Great video. It's so refreshing to see an accurate account of the battle, with that Zuber-obsessed Wikipedia article making me wince every time I remember it. His awful book has done a lot of damage to the legacy of this battle, since what he appeared to do was seek out German sources that he simply takes as gospel.
My grandfather Harry Griffin ,was at Mons aged 20, I think he might have been with Smith Dorien but I'm not certain he was in the 4th middlesex regiment. He was wounded shot through both thighs jan.1915. Would anyone know if the 4th middlesex were with Smith Dorien.
Certainly 4th Middlesex fought at Le Cateau under Smith-Dorrien. They were part of 8th Brigade within 3rd Division - on the map shown around 1:00:00 8th Brigade is in the centre just to the right of, and behind, Caudry.
Peculiar that Dr. Jones draws a line between these actions and the rearguard action of the 2nd Bat. Royal Munster Fusiliers on the following day, 27th August 1914 at Etreux where the Munsters with others held back this same massive advance of Germans for a day to the last round of ammunition before being overrun but receive no mention here. My Granduncle Pte. john O'Connell was killed in action on this day and is buried in a mass grave with his fallen comrades at Etreux.
Issuing brand new boots of very stiff leather with nailed soles to men about to march a few hundred miles some of it on the pave. Can’t imagine how that will go well.
Considering the amount of Alcohol consumed Daily by Officers, Raging Ruperts must have been the Norm, For Smith Doriens Consumption and Rage to be Exceptional, He must have been a Berserker.
Some of these claims 💀 “the British army of 1914 was the best army that ever went to war” honestly it’s good to be a patriot but claims like this are absolutely mental. The BEF was decimated by the end of the year. It was indeed a good army and probably was man for man the best in terms of infantry skills, but it was out gunned and argument had some short comings in areas that other armies were better in such as artillery and leadership. The army was certainly very good man for man i simply cannot understand how historians like Edmund can suggest it was the best in history
My Grandfather was in the Buffs, East Kent regiment, he was taken prisoner at this time, does any one know what part the Buffs played in this battle ?, unfortunately he is long gone and so is his story.
Hi David, My grandfather was in the the 2nd bat KRRC and as such was his battalion formed part of 2nd infantry brigade under Lomax, itself forming part of 1st Corp Haig. 1st Corp retreated down the opposite of the forest of Mormal so he did not take part. 2nd Corps under Smith Dorrien does not show the Buffs as being part of the order of battle. He likely was not part of the battle at Le Cateau. The battle was 11Corps with 4th Division Snow from 111Corps. However 111 Corps under Pulteney, had 2 divisions 4th Division under Snow which reached Le Cateau on the 24th August and, 6th Division under Keir, which reached the Aisne on the 16th September. 6th Division of which the 16th infantry brigade was part, had in its ranks the 1/The Buffs, it seems more likely he was taken prisoner at the battle of the Aisne. The WW1 medal rolls are available online and you should check this as the qualifying date will be recorded. the Red Cross did keep some pow records but usually only when a pow died (as many prisoners taken were wounded and some later from these wounds). The Buffs do have a regimental history etc, and you could do some looking here also. More info can come by looking at the CWGC just to see if any of his comrades are buried in the CWGC graveyards near the battle scenes.
David, If you haven't read it, the late, great Richard Holmes wrote an excellent book 'Riding the Retreat' in which he and friends ride along the route from Mons to the Marne. It has a fairly detailed account of Le Cateau.
I don't have time to watch this entire video right now. I wonder whether this particular tale is in it. There was a battle at about this time, when the Germans were advancing but one British serviceman with a machine gun held them up for several hours. He remained at his post until the end, when he was fatally shot. The serviceman's name has never been discovered, but his sacrifice saved the BEF from being surrounded and destroyed. Not an exaggeration to claim that this one bloke prevented the Germans from winning the war that summer. And we don't know his name.
There was a BBC drama series a few years back called _Our World War_ which dramatised the Battle of Mons. I don't know if it's the same incident or a similar one, but it does end with a lone British machine gunner on the canal bank, choosing to stay and sacrifice himself so that his comrades could retreat. If he hadn't the Germans would have routed them. The drama was apparently based on actual eyewitness accounts. The reason I wonder if it's a different incident is because the machine gunner's name is known (Sid Godley) He also miraculously survived despite being shot repeatedly - including a bullet in his head. He survived the war as a POW. (Incidentally, I just checked and the series is still available on BBC iplayer.)
French and Haig seem to have been working together, politically, until the day Haig knifed French after Loos: a battle as seriously and deliberately misrepresented as Le Cateau. Haig's large brigade of modern admirers gloss over these events.
French was in hock to Haig who had saved him from bankruptcy, French putting more effort into being a womaniser and gambler than a general. Haig was about as much use as a chocolate teapot at this stage of the war, but then he knew he could run away and French would look after him. On the plus side, when he was running away or hiding, he wasn't culling a generation the way he did a few years later.
FEB 1915 my grandfather was captured in France he was Suffolk Regiment just arrived in theatre what battle or skirmish was this I thought he may have been captured Suffolk Hill but he was captured later. He was Arthur Lloyd apparently a sniper. Captured until war end.
I've always been a fan of 1914 and the Marne etc. I am sure I read a couple of books recently and they seem to show that Haig' First Corps did not do much fighting in the retreat, and Haig even had morale collapses. And yet he went on to replace French
The more I hear about Sir John French, and even taking into account whatever his better qualities may have been, the more I think he was a petty, envious, spiteful little twerp. Thank goodness he was replaced, and what a pity it did not happen earlier.
Britain should never have got involved in that stupid war, a Russian German War over foolish actions in the Balkans. The war that ruined this country The War for Civilisation I didn’t believe in it then and I believe in it less now JRR Tolkien Having said that It was a great presentation
I'm massively impressed by the quality of the lectures you present, but, for the love of all things holy, can you please change the title music? It has to be the most irritating ear-worm I've ever heard!
Enjoyed this highly interesting presentation.But why do modern speakers pronounce words that begin with an S ,as if they begin with an SH,like Shtrong instead of Strong? It's one of the peculiar modern fads for which there is no linguistic logic.
Excellent historical presentation, but dry and for nerds. Needs more maps and moving/changing positions marked and maybe some examples of the personal gallantry and bravery. Thanks anyway but not a gateway to the public. Nevertheless it is a great historical video.
Terrence Zuber wrote 2011 on Mons and Le Cateau and he used in contrast to most UK historians sources from bothe sides, therefore, it is a little bit confusing to get in 2022 a version that again only recycles strange opinions instead of presenting relevant facts. The 2 Corps of the BEF was saved at Le Cateau by a mistake the German 1. Army made a day before, as a result it was only hit by the flanking units, which were outnumbered by the British defenders. At Le Cateau the outnumbered Germans defetaed the 2 Corps of the BEF and inflicted 2.5 times the losses, 3000 vs. 7500 soldiers, the BEF lost in addition 38 artillery pieces on the battle field due to tactical mistakes.
Interesting that you cannot offer any substantive comment or contradiction - just arguing from authority In this case somebody else's). How very Teutonic. Zuber's views have been analysed and challenged elsewhere. Nobody knows how many Germans were lost.
Casualty summary at 1:07:22. Jones is quite critical of Terry Zuber, but that's somewhat undermined by the faults in his own presentation. where the German units are identified by number on his maps but are otherwise a faceless undifferentiated mass. If he's consulted any of Zuber's German sources it is not in evidence. Jones refers, with what appears to me to be considerable un-self-awareness, to "patriotic" narratives" which however seems to be exactly what he what he's retailing here. That this much more costly battle even took place (not to mention the also more costly than Mons intervening Brit defeat at Audregnies) seems to me to put paid at least to the myth that Mons was any check on the German advance, and as well I find unconvincing, to say the least, the characterization of Le Cateau as a "strategic victory". It's nice that the BEF was still available to stick in at the Marne, but Jones admits that that battle was "overwhelmingly" a French victory which did not necessarily require the existence of the BEF. And avoiding utter disaster, even when the peril is self-created, is better than the alternative, but calling it "victory" is a bit much.
The title for this talk is about as historically accurate as saying "Kursk: The Battle that saved the German Army". The British were beaten at Le Cateau by a German force of roughly equal size to their own. Read "Catastrophe" by Max Hastings for a detailed account.
You aren't taking force disposition into account. A retreating force, disorganised and tired, turned to face a fresher, advancing army, and delayed them enough to send a ripple effect down the line. It's also worth pointing out that the Germans had almost twice as much artillery. As to Hastings, he is dreadful, and hates the British army. His work is about as biased as its possible to get, and is basically a nonstop criticism of the British army of the 20th century. He's not even a proper historian, he's a journalist; I have no idea why his work gets any credit whatsoever.
My great uncle served with 2 KOSB at Mons and was killed in the counterattack across the canal. Thank you for keeping his and his comrades’ memory alive.
That "Contemptible little army" as Wilhelm II called them, knocked them back on their heels hard at Mons. Bad ass ppl. Wouldn't expect any less from reiver stock.
.....Respect. My Father was 2KOSB and was captured here.....but rarely spoke about it.
My great grand uncle Lt Vincent Fox was KIA on 26th August during the battle of Le Cateau. He was the first veterinary surgeon to be killed in action in WW1 and was treating humans (not animals) inside a church in Audencourt France.
We must not forget their stories.
ÌÌ
My grandfather was there with the North irish horse. Survived the war and fought in the second world war and got blinded in it. Pre ww1 in the Enniskillen horse uvf carsons army. And between the two wars B/specials and royal ulster constabulary. Lived to 82 On my parents wedding certificate in 1956 he give his occupation as a soldier at 80 years old. What a man. He was in A squadron. Lest we forget ❤
Your grandfather was a very brave man. A descendent of mine on my Dad's side fought with the Iniskillings at the Somme.
My great grand father was killed in Mons. He was a veteran of the second Boar war and thereafter a Reserve solider. So aged 36 and married with two young daughters fell in the street fighting in the town. He is still there.
The admiration I have for these men is immeasurable. Thank you for for keeping their memory alive.
Should never have been sent in the first place !
@@seanmoran6510why?
A nearly 2 hour lecture, from Spencer Jones, about Smith-Dorrien's finest hour?
YES PLEASE.
What happened to Sam -Dorien?
Oh go on then
My grandfather and his brothers from Belfast became known in the local press as ‘The 4 Soldier Sons’.
The eldest, Richard Ruddy, had joined the 1st Bttln Royal Irish Fusiliers in 1908, William Ruddy had joined the 2nd Bttln Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers in 1913. Then in August 1914, my grandfather, Jacob Ruddy joined the 4th (Service) and later 1st Bttln Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, with youngest brother Joseph joining a week later and serving in the 5th (Service) then 2nd Bttln Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.
William with 2 R. Innis. Fus. marched through the night to reach their position just west of the village of Esnes, near Le Cateau and as they set up to brew tea at 6am, they were suddenly raked by German machine gun fire. At 12 o’clock, a dispatch rider found William wounded and tried repeatedly to get him onto his horse, but a German artillery barrage began ripping the road up, and the dispatch rider had to flee, William’s body was never found.
His elder brother, Richard, with 1 R. Irish Fus. were just about a mile to the east of the Inniskillings and their war diary confirms hearing the machine gun attack to their left at 6am and the artillery barrage at 12 o’clock.
These Irish troops had been rushed forward and told to hold the left flank without any medical, engineering or signals support. I can only imagine what Richard was thinking as he could hear his brother’s unit being attacked and overrun.
That night, Richard found himself behind the lines and was taken PoW. He was held at Doberitz PoW camp in Berlin for most of the war, then moved to Chemnitz PoW camp in Saxony in 1918. He emigrated to Canada in 1926.
My grandfather, Jacob, with 1 R. Innis. Fus., first served at Gallipoli, where he was shot through the left forearm, then was wounded twice more in France. I have a photograph of him in the trenches at the Battle of Cambrai in November 1917. He survived from 1914 until August 1918 in the infantry. Some miracle.
His younger brother, Joseph, with 2 R. Innis. Fus. took 22 machine gun bullets to his left leg and survived, was invalided out of the Army and walked with a cane until he died. He had returned to Belfast to find that his sweetheart had married someone else and he died unmarried in 1966.
My grandfather also died that year, and the family had never known what happened to William, until two weeks before he died, whilst walking in Belfast, my grandfather bumped into the dispatch rider who had tried to save William.
It took me many years to piece this story together, including getting PoW records from the Red Cross archives in Geneva.
Through the Western Front Association, a member who collects photographs of soldiers from Ulster, recognising the name Ruddy, he sent me a copy of a newspaper article called ‘Four Soldier Sons’. To the family’s amazement, the photos of William and Richard who we had never seen before, showed William as the spitting double of myself at that age. The likeness is absolutely uncanny.
My mother is in her 80s now and has been so delighted to be told the details of what her father and uncles had experienced.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for sharing
Moving testimony. Lest we forget.
That’s the first time I’ve properly understood that series of battles. Also the part character, human failings, strengths and happenstance played in the battle.
Thank you for your detailed descriptions and clarity.
I listened to the whole of this, it was fascinating and I thoroughly enjoyed it and glad I found it or rather glad TH-cam pointed me in this direction. I will now be listen ing to more of your content. Consider myself a history buff particularly interested in The Hundreds Years war and The Mongol Conquests, but love learning about anything from Hastings up to the end of The War of the Roses and then from The Zulu wars and everything up to the present. Also enjoy learning about pre and post Roman invasion. The tribes had such great names The Ordivices, The Brigantes, The Trinovantes, The Catuvellauni. What fabulous stories our ancestors gifted to us. Lastly and most importantly it is my fervent hope that war remains something for Historians to write about and film makers to make films about. War belongs in the past. BTW Blair Paddy Mayne is my hero and should be posthumously awarded the VC.
The WFA will keep you listening for a very long time, my friend. A huge number of lectures from people who really know their subjects. Enjoy! 😊
Mons, 1914. Just over a thousand men of the 1st Battalion 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment faced two German divisions.
The Cheshires managed to stop the German advance and came out of that battle with around 150 men left.
Ever Glorious!
I think somewhere on YT there's a video about the guy who kept a horse artillery battery going during the battle till the end. Some fight.
If they but knew that the proud county Regiment has been amalgamated to appease the bean counters all for the sake of some thoughtless moron in Whitehall. One of the oldest Regiments in the British Army, hundreds of years of tradition battle honours all doomed to be forgotten by an ungrateful government and the populace of the country who to be honest could not give a damn. I will never forget the time served with that glorious regiment I do my utmost to keep the memory alive.
Pay a journey to Chester Castle and spend some time immersed in the memories of those brave gallant heroes who fought not for king and country but for the comradeship of the fellow soldiers fighting next to him.
Ever glorious.
Bob
Don't get me started on what they did to my County Regiment.
Just like the 2nd Devons at Bois-des-Buttes in 1918
@@robertmason323 same with Durham Light Infantry in Normandy 1944. Fought till it only existed as drivers and cooks. How joyful those men must have felt to by known only to God, when their last breaths would be thinking of their wives, girlfriends and children
My grandfather was captured at Le Cateau. He had joined the RA in 1905 but was transferred to the Lancs as a Lance Corporal during mobilisation. Fought at Mons, then Le Cateau and spent the next 4 years in a prison camp in Prussia.
My grandfather was conscripted to Wehrmacht in 1943. Stationed in Normandy. Managed to flee and joined the Polish army in GB. Returned to Poland in 1945. He was Polish as am I
When the German people was starving, did they feed their POWs? Do you know if he talked about it?
Phil same as my grandfather he was 18years old serving in the Duke of Wellingtons.
posted as MIA at the time of the battle but turned up as a wounded POW after being left behind by the retreating army with many others
@@southendmassive If he was 18 he wouldn't have been there. You had you be 19 to serve in action. He maybe lied about his age to attest, though, which was common enough.
@@bjorntorlarsson sorry for the delay in answering. Yes my Grandfather did speak of the camp conditions. In the final 18 months of the war the rations given were survival level so nearly all the British Prisoners were on the point of starvation by the time of repatriation. He said that the treatment of other nationalities was worse than that.
" *The men all chilled to the bone, almost too exhausted to move and with the depressing consciousness of defeat weighing heavily upon them. A bad defeat, there can be no gainsaying it ... we had been badly beaten, and by the English - by the English we had so laughed at a few hours before* "
German novelist and infantry officer: Walter Bloem.
Does this quote refer to Mons/Le Cateau? or the Marne?
Bloem's memoir is called The Advance From Mons.
My grandfather from York, England, was in the Royal Horse Artillery supporting the cavalry division in the retreat from Mons in August 1914, and served throughout the war from 1914 to 1919 in France and briefly in 1917 in Italy. He was awarded the Military Medal for recovering a lost gun under heavy enemy fire in 1915. He passed away at the age of 89 in 1978. RIP Dearest Grandad ❤❤❤
Thank you Dr Jones and Western Front Association for a very informative presentation (and also to the audience for their questions, especially the FSR one.). Does make me wonder if Gen Smith-Dorrien had remained in post, would the doctrinal culture have been better positioned to develop cohesive combined arms doctrine; he just seems a bit less hidebound then his cavalryman contemporarys.
I want more Dr. Spencer! One of the best speakers. Thank you.
I second this motion!
Hear hear!
@@shoofly529 I agree
I third this motion.
Dr Spencer Jones gives an excellent talk. Highly recommended. WFA videos are well worth viewing. Many appreciative comments in evidence.
I'm a Yank. Having a hard time finding videos about Individual Battalions or Individual Divisions of the BEF or Germans. Suggestions appreciated, Thanks. Bless all Vets.
Very informative and very well delivered account of this battle. I felt we were watching it unfold before our eyes.
The war of movement has always captivated me. The last of the traditional Napoleonic style combat.
I’d have thought after the American civil war Franco Prussian and wars in African they’d have realised it was outdated
I really enjoyed the lectures of Spencer Jones, thanks
A superb presentation, packed with information and told with verve. Dr Jones's delivery reminds me of the late, great Prof Richard Holmes.
No greater compliment....and I would agree
WOW!! Being comparing Dr Jones to the late great Prof Richard Holmes, that's really, really high praise indeed. "War Walks "is still the gold standard.
I am very grateful to see General Sir Hugh Smith-Dorrien's vital decision getting the recognition he, and the men, deserve. Haig's panic, let's be honest....Butcher Haig was crapping himself.....put the entire BEF at risk. Without S-D's decision to turn and fight the entire BEF could have been engulfed. Thank you for giving S-D and the men who fought at Le Cateau their well deserved credit.
This is why its so important for soldiers to be physically fit. Reading Lyn MacDonald’s books the BEF upped their physical training for weeks before this. Same in Ambrose’s Band Of Brothers the soldiers complained that all they did was run and exercise before going into action.
It was also given as one of the popular theories as to why the Infantry advanced so apparantly slowly against the German gun lines,which was that the replacements which by 1916,theywere mostly,were not physically fit enough to run the distances to the enemy trenches and still fight a battle
Half the BEF were far from fit - a lot of Reservists (Reservists were around half of each Battalion, give or take) were totally unfit, and that is before you factor in problems with boots which left a lot of them unable to march.
Fitness also came with age. It is believed that my wifes great uncle James Collins was killed at mons, he is buried at St Symphorien Cemetry. We believe him to be 13 when he signed up and just 14 when killed.
The British army fielded in 1914 was one of the best armies the British ever put into the field!
When I saw a photo of Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien for the first time, I thought to myself "that's the face of a fighter". Le Cateau certainly proves it and of Kitchener's choice for the replacement of Sir James Grierson as commander of II Corps. I'd like to add that at the time that Horace Smith-Dorrien was commanding II Corps in the BEF, Sir Edmund Allenby was in command of the Calvalry Division and therefore Smith-Dorrien was serving alongside the only general in the entire British Army who out-tempered him. Thank goodness they got along well during the early Western Front battles, especially at Le Cateau.
Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien, as a young officer, was one of the few British survivors of the battle of Isandlwana in the Anglo-Zulu war of 1879.
My great grandfather was there with the 1st Rifle Brigade. Was awarded the MM during the Somme and survived the war as a Sergeant.
Horrace Smith Dorrien maybe the best General we ever had , he was not a fan of Attrition so was no good from 1915 onwards , but the retreat from Mons was very orderly , and stretched the Germans to the limit by the time they reached the French forces there were big gaps in the German line
"but the retreat from Mons was very orderly , and stretched the Germans to the limit by the time they reached the French forces there were big gaps in the German line"
That is nonsense. Units performing an orderly retreat do not throw away equipment, esp. not engineering equipment that would be missed at Le Cateau. And an orderly retreat would have been covered by cav. and artillery....
@@olafkunert3714 I'd agree, it was a truly desperate fighting retreat that seriously threatened breaking the BEF. Smith-Dorrien made the right decisions, effectively forming a kamfgruppe with whatever units he could get hold of, and at the right time and place they stood fast, and as costly as that was were it allowed the needed breathing space to avoid being entirely crushed by von Kluck & Co.
Unbelievable speaker -- excellent presentation
This is a battle that I know nothing about. Thank you for this lecture.
My Grandfather was in the RAMC and we have have his Diary covering this period and the retreat described in this video !
This is so good
Outstanding. Thank you for this. I have been fascinated by this campaign for many years, especially since reading the WWI-era book "The 1st Seven Divisions". Smith Dorrien has been a hero of mine for years and I enjoyed reading "The Man Who Disobeyed : Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien and His Enemies".
smith-dorrien is the ww1 general of note that deserves more mention.
Smith-Dorrien was a better leader and tactician than Butcher Haig ever was.
My Great Grandfather (1st Surreys) despised French and outright hated Haig, but worshipped S-D
Outstanding presentation. Thoroughly enjoyed it and learned so much….
bravo, excellent presentation
The General foreman building The Aeronautics bld at Southampton was an " Old Contemptible " called Wally Scot - I asked him if he had seen The angels at Mons - he laughed and told me, we ran as far as we could - then turned the Germans back with rapid fire with our Lee Enfields !
wonderful informative video thankyou for posting it , i often wonder how i would measure up against the toughness of that generation and my greatest fear is that i would fall well short.
On the morning of 1 September 1914 the German 4th Cavalry Division attacked 1st Cavalry Brigade and L Battery, who had been camped in the village of Néry. In the action that followed, L Battery, less for one gun, was all but destroyed. The 13-pounder gun manned by Captain Bradbury, WO2 Dorrell, Sergeant Nelson, and Gunners Osbourne and Darbyshire, managed to keep the single gun in action against the three German Batteries located a thousand yards away. The Artillery fire put down by this gun allowed the 1st Cavalry Brigade to deliver a successful Counter attack. For this action Captain Bradbury, WO2 Dorrell, Sergeant Nelson, were all awarded the Victoria Cross. On the anniversary L (Nery) Bty RHA fire one round at 06.00.
Listening to this as I'm putting some linseed oil on the stock of my 1917 SMLE III*.
Smith Dorrien was one of the very few people to escape the Zulu Victory at Isandlwhana. The Battle At Rorkes Drift was a day later.
He must have ridden out ......nobody on foot escaped.
The BEF in Aug 1914 was a minor force on the Western front. The British where recruiting at good pace and the French where many many more (and in France). BEF was hit hard but even if it had compeltely dissapeared what mattered was that the French did not panic and that the Germans advancing through Belgium could not push on unoppsoed (as the BEF and French armies was between them and Paris).
Very enjoyable and engaging.
Absolutely excellent ! I really enjoyed that. I have walked the Mons battlefields and retreat and watching this has made me want to get back out there and do it again...
The Old Contemptables must have been a key factor in the slowing of the German advance and the failure of their Schliefen Plan?
The question that arises from this lecture is -
If Smith-Dorrien had been appointed C-in-C of the BEF instead of French, would his command have reduced the WW1 butcher's bill incurred by French and Haig?
Any regard for Haig is tainted by his back-stabbing and job-seeking collusion with French to ditch Smith-Dorrien.
I think this is a real 'what if' of the BEF. I think Smith-Dorrien would have avoided Haig's tendency to set over ambitious objectives and seek breakthroughs. But given Smith-Dorrien's ferocious temper I wonder how well he would have been able to manage to the delicate business of working with French allies and British politicians!
@@Defiance-uf4id As I understand it, Haig was a cavalry man who never let go of the fantasy of the "big breakthrough" of his horsemen's derring-do and the scared German Army running before them. The slog of meticulously planned, set-piece battles that finally broke the standoff was not to Haig's taste and another commander who was more business like might have shortened the war.
It is a myth unsupported by any facts that our Generals were butchers. Yes mistakes were made but your best chance of surviving the war was to be a British soldier and not French or German.
Good point and a thought I have pondered over before. I think that D-S would have been much better choice.
@@dulls8475 Except for officers, Britain had a much higher casualty than any other nation in terms of officers.
Erudite as always, Dr Jones.
Fabulous video thank you Spencer.
Very apt in mentioning how new boots are not what you want to wear on a long march. The reservists of course had no time to break them in.
Interesting comment about issues with reserves dental fitness. Still a significant cause of concern wrt reservists at RTMC Chillwell 90-100 years later.
A problem that will get worse since our wonderful government saw fit to close a dentistry college in Southend not long ago.
Probably in the interests of saving our NHS.
Fascinating .... tough being a Tommy in 1914. It was a stunning bloody nose for the Krauts and a retreat in order against overwhelming odds. Although I am not quite sure why it`s called a victory for the BEF,
Very personally interesting as my great uncle Job Drain was one of the Royal Artillery VC's
Excellent. Thoroughly enjoyed. I had been struggling to get a more detailed text or documentary on the retreat from Mons. I am a novice armchair historian whose interest in The BEF 2nd core and Smith Dorrien was sparked by Sir Max Hastings Catastrophe and other snippets. Dorriens's sacking was always a mystery to me. He seemed to have borne the brunt of the Schiffen plan and nullified its effect on the war. My interest has been reignited and will dive into the books suggested. BTW. Was it true that Sir John was falling to pieces and wanted to run to the coast? His staff officers had to stiffen his resolve and talk him out of it?? Im fascinated by the characters involved.
French certainly wanted to pull the BEF out of the line. His thought process was very confused in August-September, and Lord Kitchener himself had to come out to France and tell him in no uncertain terms that the Army had to stay in the fight.
It is my understanding that Smith Dorrien was undermined by his perceived poor performance in 1914-15 and his unpopularity with several politically-powerful officers like Sir John French and Douglas Haig. It also should not be forgotten that it was not clear to the British in 1914-15 that Smith Dorrien had helped blunt the German offensive. To the British at the time, it looked like Smith Dorrien had basically lost his entire corps while surrendering a lot of ground to the Germans. His performance as time went on didn't seem to be any better, with heavy losses and no real victories to his name. It is only much later when historians could actually see how much damage he did to the Germans by accessing the German records, that we realize he was more successful than he seemed to be at the time.
@@genericpersonx333 history has that power. i feel that rommel is given this mastermind but his victories were against a thinned out and not inspired british army. supplies and montgomery changed all that.
@@dougmphilly Rommel also had all the British plans due to some US officer being careless with our secrets. The minute that was realised Rommel did not do much again.
I have fallen asleep while on the march, many times in fact, and I’m always surprised how soldiers in that state seem to stay in formation. Very odd thing.
If there's a stable rhythm, you don't need to be conscious 😆
(but it probably does require a road higher sides, so people fall back to the center of the road instead of off of it)
I also would theorize that a sufficiently tired brain will grab any bit of sleep walking it can get - in other words, some things may change and open doors that normally are firmly shut
I've managed to fall asleep while stood at ease in a squad but not while marching, to me it's simply incredible
Wonderful lecture
Leaker Two - my dad told me how Grandad, who’d been there in 1914, was so disappointed when it fell so quickly in 1940.
First time i watch the channel, Very good 👍
Me: Meh, this video is too long!!!
Also Me: (1:52 later) That was fascinating!! :)
I’d love to see a presentation of the Battle at Audrignes. It was where Edith Cavell helped soldiers retreat
Saying someone dying before the battle, as did General 'Fatty' Grierson, left an Army II Corp leaderless is to suggest there was no-one to replace that fella, whether it be an understudy or someone coming up through the ranks. In all my career I realised long ago that no-one is irreplaceable. There is always someone who can replace YOU or that person that has left a position...from floor sweeper to Field Marshal. In many cases a replacement did a better or even more sterling work than the original. Outside of that it's an interesting discussion. Cheers!
Yes I agree, there is always somene to replace you. I wonder why they did not promote one of the divisional commanders already in France?
Great video. It's so refreshing to see an accurate account of the battle, with that Zuber-obsessed Wikipedia article making me wince every time I remember it. His awful book has done a lot of damage to the legacy of this battle, since what he appeared to do was seek out German sources that he simply takes as gospel.
Excellent.
My grandfather Harry Griffin ,was at Mons aged 20, I think he might have been with Smith Dorien but I'm not certain he was in the 4th middlesex regiment. He was wounded shot through both thighs jan.1915. Would anyone know if the 4th middlesex were with Smith Dorien.
Certainly 4th Middlesex fought at Le Cateau under Smith-Dorrien. They were part of 8th Brigade within 3rd Division - on the map shown around 1:00:00 8th Brigade is in the centre just to the right of, and behind, Caudry.
One of my friends was in the Cameronians and told me how tired they all were during the retreat.
Peculiar that Dr. Jones draws a line between these actions and the rearguard action of the 2nd Bat. Royal Munster Fusiliers on the following day, 27th August 1914 at Etreux where the Munsters with others held back this same massive advance of Germans for a day to the last round of ammunition before being overrun but receive no mention here. My Granduncle Pte. john O'Connell was killed in action on this day and is buried in a mass grave with his fallen comrades at Etreux.
Any recommendatiions on battlefield guides?
Mr Great Great Uncle Adam Peebles of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders was killed at Le Cateau.
good work
Link to where I could find the painting please of the British in line of battle.
Issuing brand new boots of very stiff leather with nailed soles to men about to march a few hundred miles some of it on the pave. Can’t imagine how that will go well.
Considering the amount of Alcohol consumed Daily by Officers, Raging Ruperts must have been the Norm, For Smith Doriens Consumption and Rage to be Exceptional, He must have been a Berserker.
Some of these claims 💀 “the British army of 1914 was the best army that ever went to war” honestly it’s good to be a patriot but claims like this are absolutely mental. The BEF was decimated by the end of the year. It was indeed a good army and probably was man for man the best in terms of infantry skills, but it was out gunned and argument had some short comings in areas that other armies were better in such as artillery and leadership. The army was certainly very good man for man i simply cannot understand how historians like Edmund can suggest it was the best in history
From the context it seems he meant just what you said. Just worded it poorly.
My Grandfather was in the Buffs, East Kent regiment, he was taken prisoner at this time, does any one know what part the Buffs played in this battle ?, unfortunately he is long gone and so is his story.
Hi David, My grandfather was in the the 2nd bat KRRC and as such was his battalion formed part of 2nd infantry brigade under Lomax, itself forming part of 1st Corp Haig. 1st Corp retreated down the opposite of the forest of Mormal so he did not take part.
2nd Corps under Smith Dorrien does not show the Buffs as being part of the order of battle. He likely was not part of the battle at Le Cateau. The battle was 11Corps with 4th Division Snow from 111Corps.
However 111 Corps under Pulteney, had 2 divisions 4th Division under Snow which reached Le Cateau on the 24th August and, 6th Division under Keir, which reached the Aisne on the 16th September. 6th Division of which the 16th infantry brigade was part, had in its ranks the 1/The Buffs, it seems more likely he was taken prisoner at the battle of the Aisne.
The WW1 medal rolls are available online and you should check this as the qualifying date will be recorded. the Red Cross did keep some pow records but usually only when a pow died (as many prisoners taken were wounded and some later from these wounds).
The Buffs do have a regimental history etc, and you could do some looking here also.
More info can come by looking at the CWGC just to see if any of his comrades are buried in the CWGC graveyards near the battle scenes.
David, If you haven't read it, the late, great Richard Holmes wrote an excellent book 'Riding the Retreat' in which he and friends ride along the route from Mons to the Marne. It has a fairly detailed account of Le Cateau.
Sangat bagus cerita nya...
to the men who carried out the decisions made by the generals!
I don't have time to watch this entire video right now. I wonder whether this particular tale is in it.
There was a battle at about this time, when the Germans were advancing but one British serviceman with a machine gun held them up for several hours. He remained at his post until the end, when he was fatally shot. The serviceman's name has never been discovered, but his sacrifice saved the BEF from being surrounded and destroyed. Not an exaggeration to claim that this one bloke prevented the Germans from winning the war that summer. And we don't know his name.
There was a BBC drama series a few years back called _Our World War_ which dramatised the Battle of Mons. I don't know if it's the same incident or a similar one, but it does end with a lone British machine gunner on the canal bank, choosing to stay and sacrifice himself so that his comrades could retreat. If he hadn't the Germans would have routed them.
The drama was apparently based on actual eyewitness accounts. The reason I wonder if it's a different incident is because the machine gunner's name is known (Sid Godley) He also miraculously survived despite being shot repeatedly - including a bullet in his head. He survived the war as a POW.
(Incidentally, I just checked and the series is still available on BBC iplayer.)
French and Haig seem to have been working together, politically, until the day Haig knifed French after Loos: a battle as seriously and deliberately misrepresented as Le Cateau. Haig's large brigade of modern admirers gloss over these events.
French was in hock to Haig who had saved him from bankruptcy, French putting more effort into being a womaniser and gambler than a general. Haig was about as much use as a chocolate teapot at this stage of the war, but then he knew he could run away and French would look after him. On the plus side, when he was running away or hiding, he wasn't culling a generation the way he did a few years later.
FEB 1915 my grandfather was captured in France he was Suffolk Regiment just arrived in theatre what battle or skirmish was this I thought he may have been captured Suffolk Hill but he was captured later. He was Arthur Lloyd apparently a sniper. Captured until war end.
I've always been a fan of 1914 and the Marne etc.
I am sure I read a couple of books recently and they seem to show that Haig' First Corps did not do much fighting in the retreat, and Haig even had morale collapses.
And yet he went on to replace French
french lost all credibility with the likes of law and george with false dispatches at the battle of loos.
Haig was very well connected.
A fine presintation
The more I hear about Sir John French, and even taking into account whatever his better qualities may have been, the more I think he was a petty, envious, spiteful little twerp. Thank goodness he was replaced, and what a pity it did not happen earlier.
Great - though it would have been nice to also hear about the German side of the story at the same time.
Walter Bloem's 'The Advance From Mons 1914' will tell you. He was there serving in the Brandenburg Grenadiers.
Britain should never have got involved in that stupid war, a Russian German War over foolish actions in the Balkans.
The war that ruined this country
The War for Civilisation I didn’t believe in it then and I believe in it less now
JRR Tolkien
Having said that
It was a great presentation
THe Flower of the British Army
Followed by the Flower of Our Manhood 😢
2 million men led to blood mud corpses and rats
And all for a political lie.
I'm massively impressed by the quality of the lectures you present, but, for the love of all things holy, can you please change the title music? It has to be the most irritating ear-worm I've ever heard!
For goodness sake, how can a battle be close to the heart, as in a romantic attachment? War is a bloody business.
Enjoyed this highly interesting presentation.But why do modern speakers pronounce words that begin with an S ,as if they begin with an SH,like Shtrong instead of Strong? It's one of the peculiar modern fads for which there is no linguistic logic.
Excellent historical presentation, but dry and for nerds. Needs more maps and moving/changing positions marked and maybe some examples of the personal gallantry and bravery. Thanks anyway but not a gateway to the public. Nevertheless it is a great historical video.
You got a gun you got ammo fight to the death.
Why surrender.
You're there for a reason.
Yeah the rage will get you.
First!
Best watched with Google earth map open; good talk, but not enough maps.
Good thing the Germans didn't have dinghies.
Wasn't le Cateau a holding action?
The first Germany army had about 130 k men
they may have been well-trained but not in modern warfare New tactics were unknown but ideas were not followed.examples machine guns,garnades
Ah,Hastings😂
Terrence Zuber wrote 2011 on Mons and Le Cateau and he used in contrast to most UK historians sources from bothe sides, therefore, it is a little bit confusing to get in 2022 a version that again only recycles strange opinions instead of presenting relevant facts.
The 2 Corps of the BEF was saved at Le Cateau by a mistake the German 1. Army made a day before, as a result it was only hit by the flanking units, which were outnumbered by the British defenders.
At Le Cateau the outnumbered Germans defetaed the 2 Corps of the BEF and inflicted 2.5 times the losses, 3000 vs. 7500 soldiers, the BEF lost in addition 38 artillery pieces on the battle field due to tactical mistakes.
Interesting that you cannot offer any substantive comment or contradiction - just arguing from authority In this case somebody else's). How very Teutonic. Zuber's views have been analysed and challenged elsewhere. Nobody knows how many Germans were lost.
Casualty summary at 1:07:22.
Jones is quite critical of Terry Zuber, but that's somewhat undermined by the faults in his own presentation. where the German units are identified by number on his maps but are otherwise a faceless undifferentiated mass. If he's consulted any of Zuber's German sources it is not in evidence.
Jones refers, with what appears to me to be considerable un-self-awareness, to "patriotic" narratives" which however seems to be exactly what he what he's retailing here. That this much more costly battle even took place (not to mention the also more costly than Mons intervening Brit defeat at Audregnies) seems to me to put paid at least to the myth that Mons was any check on the German advance, and as well I find unconvincing, to say the least, the characterization of Le Cateau as a "strategic victory". It's nice that the BEF was still available to stick in at the Marne, but Jones admits that that battle was "overwhelmingly" a French victory which did not necessarily require the existence of the BEF. And avoiding utter disaster, even when the peril is self-created, is better than the alternative, but calling it "victory" is a bit much.
Zuber's dreadfully biased book is deserving of the criticism it gets, to be honest.
BEF took the German right flank head on.
The title for this talk is about as historically accurate as saying "Kursk: The Battle that saved the German Army". The British were beaten at Le Cateau by a German force of roughly equal size to their own. Read "Catastrophe" by Max Hastings for a detailed account.
You aren't taking force disposition into account. A retreating force, disorganised and tired, turned to face a fresher, advancing army, and delayed them enough to send a ripple effect down the line. It's also worth pointing out that the Germans had almost twice as much artillery.
As to Hastings, he is dreadful, and hates the British army. His work is about as biased as its possible to get, and is basically a nonstop criticism of the British army of the 20th century. He's not even a proper historian, he's a journalist; I have no idea why his work gets any credit whatsoever.
so Genl. Smith-Dorrien fought the Zulu wars too! OMG what an eventful life.