Great video Dan, keep-em coming. I just bought my first bike,it's a 92 cbr600 f2, has some cracks and i don't really like the paint, so i'm going to follow the video you did on your cbr's cracks and pain. I dont know if you structure your videos before you start filming but the way you explain the step by step procedure is very easy to understand, especially for someone who isn't at all familiar with the subject at hand.
Great video. Good to see younger guys turning bolts on these cars. I've owned mine for 23 years now and that seal has yet to fail on it. I've broken 2 timing belts therefore requiring a top-end rebuild (bent valves) but the bottom end is still in great shape with 270K+ miles on it. My 87 N/A is starting to develop some rust in the rocker panels so I'm going to down it soon and do a full restoration on it. Last week I bought an 88 S model that's in great shape (body wise) but the interior needs some work. I'll ride that while I'm restoring. I plan on tearing down the engine during the restoration just to freshen it up (new bearings, rings, and what-not), I'll definitely have to snag one of those alignment tools. Again, great video..
Wow! That is awesome! 23 years with that car and you must have an encyclopedic knowledge of it. I've had mine for almost 5 and I already have learned a ton!
Almost. I got the Porsche Repair Manuals many moons ago on Ebay and they helped a lot. However, I've been wrenching on cars since I was a kid. My Dad was a drag racer and ended up building his own shop back in the mid 80's... I've broken two timing belts on my car so I've rebuilt the top end twice. Ported and polished the head on the second go around. Now she's starting to develop some rust issues. Anyway, great video and keep learning about those 944's....
+Daniel Engling Well. I picked up an 88 S model a few months ago. Got it running the other day only to discover the water pump is locked up. Fortunately I had the timing covers off for inspection and noticed a little bit of smoke coming from that area. Only had the car running for about 30 seconds (it had been sitting for 5 years). Got a new water pump and was tearing things down to put it in and guess what. Pulled the upper radiator hose and there was oil sitting in it.. I had checked the oil level on the dipstick before I bought it and it is right at the full mark. Hopefully there isn't much in the pan. Did you determine which seal failed on your oil cooler so I can be looking for a similar sign of failure on mine?
+David Cantrell Yeah, that was a close one. Just a little longer and it sounds like you would have some valve interference if that belt snapped...good catch. Honestly I don't remember which seal it was (I don't think it was obvious) but I recommend just buying the pack with all the seals and replacing each one while you're in there. It's cheap and takes hardly any extra time to hit all of them. Does your oil look foggy? Coolant foggy/frothy?
The oil didn't look like it had any water mixed so I'm hoping it was only pushing oil (more pressure) into the water jacket. I've not drained the pan yet but did pull the filter off getting the water pump off today. No froth. LOL But the crud built up in the waterpump and block was a bit more than I anticipated.. Fortunately it flushed out easily with the good'ol water hose. I'm going to replace all the seals in the oil cooler housing though. I was just wondering if you were able to determine which one may have failed. But I guess unless it's obviously ripped, it's hard to tell.
Minor issue, 24 mm and 5/16" are two very different sizes. 5/16 is just under 8 mm. This is a nice review, of a procedure I've never done before. Good job.
Nice presentation. I needed the info on the alignment tool. Just started the process of replacing the wtr pump, front engine seals, belts and rebuild the oil cooler. My car's symptom was mainly oil in the coolant tank oil leaks around the cooler housing.
Very good! Thank you! Read elsewhere that it's a very good idea to have the oil cooler pressure tested before it's re-installed! "Just in cases!" Having mine done tomorrow.
Hi Dan, Great Video . . thanks for taking the time to produce it. I have to replace the seals on my '87 924S with about 70K on the odometer . . . Question, where did you source the alignment tool? Thanks!
+John Galt A friend let me borrow it. It's called a BMT9262/1 www.handsontools.com/Baum-Tools-92621-Porsche-OilWater-Cooler-Align-Pin_p_155179.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwqsyxBRCIxtminsmwkMABEiQAzL34PX942Fza_NhAOySBj7aXygu85h0V4cE6PWOujB-v-DIaAiFW8P8HAQ
well im getting ready to tear apart the top end of my motor and i need to know what would be a good idea as far as what steppes to take, in what order to do them in, what are the good brand parts to use, and what are the best procidures to putting it all back together correctly? if you could help out in any way i would be very happy for your advice. thanks
Thanks for the detailed instructions! I'm about to replace my seals as well; coolant has mixed in with the oil and I've got the same "milkshake" as you experienced. Are you planning to replace the rod bearings as well? I believe that Porsche recommended to after any amount of coolant is introduced into the oil.
Nope. I crossed my fingers and it's been good for a few years now. Not a bad idea though, could probably screw some stuff if you run it long on that kind of oil.
Oh man! I'm glad to hear you figured it out, but dropping that pan is a lot of unnecessary work! At least you can rest assured that your pick up tube is functional. I've seen a 944 engine die because of that failure.
Yeah, because someone posted on a forum that bad engine mounts can crack the pickup tube and we did change mounts also which were indeed gone. Now the car is smooth like new
Hey Dan. I lost oil pressure in 1983 944 non turbo. because my engine vibrated a lot at idle , i suspected the pickup tube cracked due to bad mounts. Removed oil pan and found pick up tube perfect. The OPRV piston which is a plain one (no oring) is smooth and looks good. Pls guide me what could be wrong ? I see no oil leaks around oil cooler . Thanks !
Hey Dan. Thx for answer but I have to tell u , the problem was a simply loose main pulley bolt which we torqued to 150 ft lbs after going thru all the unnecessary hassles
I've done this several ways, and I've found the exhaust manifold removal way to be the least desirable. If you dismount the power steering pump and remove the right front sway bar mount you can remove the cooler from the bottom. Also, the heat shield disassembles farther and at that point you do not have to remove the small coolant hose. It's always a crap shoot whether you will break an exhaust stud when you start disrupting things right at the cylinder head. Good video though, I was trying to figure out what the black goop on my block was, it must be what was left of the big rubber seal at the bottom of the cooler element. I actually don't understand what that seal is for, unless it's just for vibration isolation of the element... I don't see where the oil is actually able to flow out of the bottom of the element.
Yeah, I think that's just for vibration. I've seen teflon rings there instead. That's a good idea. I always hate taking exhaust manifolds off for that very reason, in fact, I have a snapped stud on mine as I type this...
So it looks like I have some leakage coming from the oil cooler itself. Looks to be the bottom bolt of the four. Is an o-ring replacement necessary, or is there a larger issue I am missing? My 944 has 105k on it. Oil does not appear to be a milkshake, yet. Thanks for the video!
+David Rowe They leak externally all the time. I think that it is most likely that the o-ring is going bad if it is coming out of the bolt hole. if it's just below it then you're probably looking at the whole housing gasket as the problem.
+Daniel Engling Really appreciate the help. Checked the history, looks like o-rings were replaced about 2 years ago. Tough to say if I should just get it over with and try it myself!
That's a call you have to make, but I can pretty confidently say that it is probably not mixing with coolant, but more likely seeping oil past the gasket and directly to the outdoors.
Ok got the cooler out and seals replace, but does that cooler have to hold itself when you put it in? I can’t seem to get it to stay and didn’t see it stay in the video
Hi Dan. My 944 only has 41K miles. The oil sensor is out of the equation because I heard the lifters making a terrible sound so i immediately shut the engine off. Any other advice? Please.
Hey! How did you get that %!$@#^%! bolt in the upper right hand corner of the assembly. I can remove all of the other bolts except for that one - help!
I had a 944s- the oil cooler was replaced by a Porsche place in Bristol (Porschemode), but the guy's brother did it not the chap who knew what he was doing. Oil cooler was not aligned and he wound the pressure relief valve in. As it wasnt straight he forced it in and it damaged the block. I drove the car away and it had very low pressure. They blamed the relief valve failing (£163) so i replaced this. Still no change. Took it to a great Porsche guy called Steve Bull in Devizes who took it all to pieces and showed me what had happened! So very costly and of course was always a bit short on oil pressure. I couldnt prove my good previous oil pressure before the first job but of course Porschemode knew about it but didnt do anything about it.
CLSMLabel Man, I'm really sorry to hear that. That's terrible. You bring cars to the dealer expecting them to know the most about them, but really that is almost never the case. On top of that, they often diagnose only by part replacement.
Go to the Clarks-garage website and you will find how-to write-ups on most everything. Very great resource. Also, make an account on Rennlist and read/ask question comment threads in the 944 forum.
My oil cooler seals are shot. Oil is mixing with the water ONLY. The oil in the block is still clean. That means that the head gasket is still good on my car and only the oil cooler seals are damaged. So what confuses me is that the oil from the head in your car was milky but I'm assuming after you made this video that problem was cured. Did your car have any other leaks????
I discovered the same issue with my 84 the other day. Spotted a small coolant leak from the plastic/aluminum interface, went to fill the reservoir and found contamination on the cap and some in the reservoir. Drained the oil and it looked fine, engine runs fine (and isn't overheating), so I don't anticipate it being a head gasket. Did you replace the seals and did it fix your problem?
Allen Snyder I have not seeing as it's going to be nearly 700 dollars for a shop to do it for me as I am having them replace the thermostat for good measure as well. However if the oil from the block itself is clean but it is only the coolant that is contaminated then it is the oil cooler seals that are the issue. The car won't over heat but it will run hotter especially with high rpm driving.
Hmmm. Sounds like maybe you just have a bad sensor. BE CAREFUL WITH THAT DIAGNOSIS!!! You don't want to assume it's something that simple with a system this important. But those sensors DO go out from time to time. As I was reading your comment, I was thinking pick-up tube immediately, but you've already looked at it (did you pull the engine for that pan removal, or are you just a geometrical wizard?). I will keep pondering this one (in the meantime look at Rennlist.com for ideas).
Extremely well-done, TheCousinDan; a well-spoken and articulate walk-through. I'm saving this puppy!
Great video Dan, keep-em coming. I just bought my first bike,it's a 92 cbr600 f2, has some cracks and i don't really like the paint, so i'm going to follow the video you did on your cbr's cracks and pain. I dont know if you structure your videos before you start filming but the way you explain the step by step procedure is very easy to understand, especially for someone who isn't at all familiar with the subject at hand.
Great video. Good to see younger guys turning bolts on these cars. I've owned mine for 23 years now and that seal has yet to fail on it. I've broken 2 timing belts therefore requiring a top-end rebuild (bent valves) but the bottom end is still in great shape with 270K+ miles on it. My 87 N/A is starting to develop some rust in the rocker panels so I'm going to down it soon and do a full restoration on it. Last week I bought an 88 S model that's in great shape (body wise) but the interior needs some work. I'll ride that while I'm restoring. I plan on tearing down the engine during the restoration just to freshen it up (new bearings, rings, and what-not), I'll definitely have to snag one of those alignment tools. Again, great video..
Wow! That is awesome! 23 years with that car and you must have an encyclopedic knowledge of it. I've had mine for almost 5 and I already have learned a ton!
Almost. I got the Porsche Repair Manuals many moons ago on Ebay and they helped a lot. However, I've been wrenching on cars since I was a kid. My Dad was a drag racer and ended up building his own shop back in the mid 80's... I've broken two timing belts on my car so I've rebuilt the top end twice. Ported and polished the head on the second go around. Now she's starting to develop some rust issues. Anyway, great video and keep learning about those 944's....
+Daniel Engling Well. I picked up an 88 S model a few months ago. Got it running the other day only to discover the water pump is locked up. Fortunately I had the timing covers off for inspection and noticed a little bit of smoke coming from that area. Only had the car running for about 30 seconds (it had been sitting for 5 years). Got a new water pump and was tearing things down to put it in and guess what. Pulled the upper radiator hose and there was oil sitting in it.. I had checked the oil level on the dipstick before I bought it and it is right at the full mark. Hopefully there isn't much in the pan. Did you determine which seal failed on your oil cooler so I can be looking for a similar sign of failure on mine?
+David Cantrell Yeah, that was a close one. Just a little longer and it sounds like you would have some valve interference if that belt snapped...good catch. Honestly I don't remember which seal it was (I don't think it was obvious) but I recommend just buying the pack with all the seals and replacing each one while you're in there. It's cheap and takes hardly any extra time to hit all of them.
Does your oil look foggy? Coolant foggy/frothy?
The oil didn't look like it had any water mixed so I'm hoping it was only pushing oil (more pressure) into the water jacket. I've not drained the pan yet but did pull the filter off getting the water pump off today. No froth. LOL But the crud built up in the waterpump and block was a bit more than I anticipated.. Fortunately it flushed out easily with the good'ol water hose. I'm going to replace all the seals in the oil cooler housing though. I was just wondering if you were able to determine which one may have failed. But I guess unless it's obviously ripped, it's hard to tell.
Minor issue, 24 mm and 5/16" are two very different sizes. 5/16 is just under 8 mm.
This is a nice review, of a procedure I've never done before. Good job.
Nice presentation. I needed the info on the alignment tool. Just started the process of replacing the wtr pump, front engine seals, belts and rebuild the oil cooler. My car's symptom was mainly oil in the coolant tank oil leaks around the cooler housing.
Sweet! I love seeing 944's with new leases on life!
Very good! Thank you! Read elsewhere that it's a very good idea to have the oil cooler pressure tested before it's re-installed! "Just in cases!" Having mine done tomorrow.
Where did you have it pressure tested?
Hi Dan, Great Video . . thanks for taking the time to produce it. I have to replace the seals on my '87 924S with about 70K on the odometer . . . Question, where did you source the alignment tool? Thanks!
+John Galt A friend let me borrow it. It's called a BMT9262/1
www.handsontools.com/Baum-Tools-92621-Porsche-OilWater-Cooler-Align-Pin_p_155179.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwqsyxBRCIxtminsmwkMABEiQAzL34PX942Fza_NhAOySBj7aXygu85h0V4cE6PWOujB-v-DIaAiFW8P8HAQ
Why yes!!! I am part of a 944 club and we have seen most any problem. I have worked on several myself, what do you need info on, I'd be happy to help.
you saved me a lot of headache on trying to figure this out
well im getting ready to tear apart the top end of my motor and i need to know what would be a good idea as far as what steppes to take, in what order to do them in, what are the good brand parts to use, and what are the best procidures to putting it all back together correctly? if you could help out in any way i would be very happy for your advice. thanks
Awesome tutorial!
Thanks!
Thanks for the detailed instructions! I'm about to replace my seals as well; coolant has mixed in with the oil and I've got the same "milkshake" as you experienced. Are you planning to replace the rod bearings as well? I believe that Porsche recommended to after any amount of coolant is introduced into the oil.
Nope. I crossed my fingers and it's been good for a few years now. Not a bad idea though, could probably screw some stuff if you run it long on that kind of oil.
Hey, I appreciate the kind words!
Use the release valve, it works just as well.
Oh man! I'm glad to hear you figured it out, but dropping that pan is a lot of unnecessary work! At least you can rest assured that your pick up tube is functional. I've seen a 944 engine die because of that failure.
Yeah, because someone posted on a forum that bad engine mounts can crack the pickup tube and we did change mounts also which were indeed gone. Now the car is smooth like new
I have my engine, and I am changing the oil cooler gaskets etc. but where do I get a alignment tool?
Hey Dan. I lost oil pressure in 1983 944 non turbo. because my engine vibrated a lot at idle , i suspected the pickup tube cracked due to bad mounts. Removed oil pan and found pick up tube perfect. The OPRV piston which is a plain one (no oring) is smooth and looks good. Pls guide me what could be wrong ? I see no oil leaks around oil cooler . Thanks !
Oh goodness, yes. I need to fix that, I meant to say 15/16. Thanks for the heads up.
How can I verify that it is the oil cooler or the head gasket? I would hate to waste time repairing one, just to find out it was the other??
Hey Dan. Thx for answer but I have to tell u , the problem was a simply loose main pulley bolt which we torqued to 150 ft lbs after going thru all the unnecessary hassles
I've done this several ways, and I've found the exhaust manifold removal way to be the least desirable. If you dismount the power steering pump and remove the right front sway bar mount you can remove the cooler from the bottom. Also, the heat shield disassembles farther and at that point you do not have to remove the small coolant hose. It's always a crap shoot whether you will break an exhaust stud when you start disrupting things right at the cylinder head. Good video though, I was trying to figure out what the black goop on my block was, it must be what was left of the big rubber seal at the bottom of the cooler element. I actually don't understand what that seal is for, unless it's just for vibration isolation of the element... I don't see where the oil is actually able to flow out of the bottom of the element.
Yeah, I think that's just for vibration. I've seen teflon rings there instead. That's a good idea. I always hate taking exhaust manifolds off for that very reason, in fact, I have a snapped stud on mine as I type this...
Maybe something broke lose and is jammed in a channel in the block. I'm at a loss though, any luck on Rennlist?
So it looks like I have some leakage coming from the oil cooler itself. Looks to be the bottom bolt of the four. Is an o-ring replacement necessary, or is there a larger issue I am missing? My 944 has 105k on it. Oil does not appear to be a milkshake, yet. Thanks for the video!
+David Rowe They leak externally all the time. I think that it is most likely that the o-ring is going bad if it is coming out of the bolt hole. if it's just below it then you're probably looking at the whole housing gasket as the problem.
+Daniel Engling Really appreciate the help. Checked the history, looks like o-rings were replaced about 2 years ago. Tough to say if I should just get it over with and try it myself!
That's a call you have to make, but I can pretty confidently say that it is probably not mixing with coolant, but more likely seeping oil past the gasket and directly to the outdoors.
+Daniel Engling as in replacing the whole unit itself? or just the o-rings? yikes. might be worth having a shop take a peek *facepalm*
do you have any other info on any other repair on the car? i have a tough time finding something on my 87 944 turbo
GREATE VIDEO!! getting my 944 next week, cant wait! :D
How did you slide the oil cooler out??? There’s no where to go with it even with the exhaust and head bolts out
Ok got the cooler out and seals replace, but does that cooler have to hold itself when you put it in? I can’t seem to get it to stay and didn’t see it stay in the video
What did you use for the grease for the rubber ring? 944 workshop manual calls for grease or Curil (which seems to be harder source in the US).
I don't remember, probably axle grease or something.
It looked like standard 'red rubber grease'
Nice job man!! Thank you!
Hi Dan. My 944 only has 41K miles. The oil sensor is out of the equation because I heard the lifters making a terrible sound so i immediately shut the engine off. Any other advice? Please.
if I have to replace oil cooler gasket not seal do I need to remove oil relief valve. gasket around oil cooler case
how many miles did this happen to you at?
So if my water is mixing up with oil is still the same problem
at how many miles do you seals fail?
hmm, mine was at something like 190k. Not sure what is normal...if that can even be said.
cool. i was looking into getting one with 220k+ miles. If the gasket is anything like the valve cover, it's probably on its way out.
Dan, i cant find the alignment tool anywhere. Can i borro
nice job sir!
Hey! How did you get that %!$@#^%! bolt in the upper right hand corner of the assembly. I can remove all of the other bolts except for that one - help!
I had a 944s- the oil cooler was replaced by a Porsche place in Bristol (Porschemode), but the guy's brother did it not the chap who knew what he was doing. Oil cooler was not aligned and he wound the pressure relief valve in.
As it wasnt straight he forced it in and it damaged the block.
I drove the car away and it had very low pressure. They blamed the relief valve failing (£163) so i replaced this. Still no change. Took it to a great Porsche guy called Steve Bull in Devizes who took it all to pieces and showed me what had happened! So very costly and of course was always a bit short on oil pressure.
I couldnt prove my good previous oil pressure before the first job but of course Porschemode knew about it but didnt do anything about it.
CLSMLabel Man, I'm really sorry to hear that. That's terrible. You bring cars to the dealer expecting them to know the most about them, but really that is almost never the case. On top of that, they often diagnose only by part replacement.
what oil pressure were you getting afterwards- I think ive done the same with my block.
Very good to hear.
Go to the Clarks-garage website and you will find how-to write-ups on most everything. Very great resource. Also, make an account on Rennlist and read/ask question comment threads in the 944 forum.
great video, thanks!
My oil cooler seals are shot. Oil is mixing with the water ONLY. The oil in the block is still clean. That means that the head gasket is still good on my car and only the oil cooler seals are damaged. So what confuses me is that the oil from the head in your car was milky but I'm assuming after you made this video that problem was cured. Did your car have any other leaks????
No other leaks. This did fix my problem too. It's about a pressure differential from what I understand and the pressure is not always one way.
+Daniel Engling oooohh that makes sense since the oil pressure is higher. awesome! thanks!
I discovered the same issue with my 84 the other day. Spotted a small coolant leak from the plastic/aluminum interface, went to fill the reservoir and found contamination on the cap and some in the reservoir. Drained the oil and it looked fine, engine runs fine (and isn't overheating), so I don't anticipate it being a head gasket. Did you replace the seals and did it fix your problem?
Allen Snyder I have not seeing as it's going to be nearly 700 dollars for a shop to do it for me as I am having them replace the thermostat for good measure as well. However if the oil from the block itself is clean but it is only the coolant that is contaminated
then it is the oil cooler seals that are the issue. The car won't over heat but it will run hotter especially with high rpm driving.
I'm going to replace the thermostat as well when I take everything apart, just have to find the time. Thanks for the reply!
No, it will come out with the case.
So did this fix your problem?
This could be a new commercial for meijer? hehe
Hmmm. Sounds like maybe you just have a bad sensor. BE CAREFUL WITH THAT DIAGNOSIS!!! You don't want to assume it's something that simple with a system this important. But those sensors DO go out from time to time. As I was reading your comment, I was thinking pick-up tube immediately, but you've already looked at it (did you pull the engine for that pan removal, or are you just a geometrical wizard?). I will keep pondering this one (in the meantime look at Rennlist.com for ideas).
i got 106, i hope this doesn't happen to me anytime soon..
160ish