The Roman Ideal of Female Beauty
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2024
- Try Trade and see what coffee you get matched with! Save $15 on select plans and get your first bag of coffee free when you use this link: drinktrade.com/ToldInStone
This video explores the elusive classical conception of female beauty.
My new book, "Insane Emperors, Sunken Cities, and Earthquake Machines" is now available! Check it out here: www.amazon.com/Insane-Emperor...
Check out my other TH-cam channels @toldinstonefootnotes and @scenicroutestothepast
Please consider supporting toldinstone on Patreon:
/ toldinstone
If you're so inclined, you can follow me elsewhere on the web:
/ toldinstone
/ toldinstone
/ 20993845.garrett_ryan
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:07 Helen of Troy
1:56 Ovid
2:24 Greek art
3:36 Frescoes from Pompeii
4:48 Art vs. life
6:09 Trade Coffee
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W3D2 | Summer | มีแค่ของจริงเท่านั้น ที่จะอยู่รอด](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6yr8jxWBSx0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks to Trade for sponsoring this video! Click on my link to save $15 on select plans, and get your first bag of coffee free: drinktrade.com/ToldInStone
bro, how were they heating their houses; did they require a wood business delivery? Was the city of pompeii full of smoke from the fireplaces?
I follow a ton of history channels but I gotta say, I think you're the king of coming up with subjects for videos on a regular basis that no one else covers.
can you please share the name of other history channels worth following? others pls feel free to suggest also what your fav is
@@LiviuXSAKings and generals is good for learning about campaigns and conquests, Invicta is another pretty good one. Historymarche has crazy production quality, if you want a podcast "The history of Rome" by Mike duncan is a staple and my favorite when it comes to learning about Rome, its long and fairly thorough.
@@LiviuXSAHistory time is good to but I feel he has a tendency to leave things out here and there but that could just be me nitpicking
Edit: Sandrhoman's videos when it comes to soldiers, war and tactics are some of the best, and his animations are pretty good to. Oversimplified is good to, but as the name suggests it's more of a quick overall coverage. I could find more if you'd like, or if you want a specific topic I could probably find that to, I spend a unhealthy amount of time watching history content 😅
@@LiviuXSA Fire of Learning, Fortress of Lugh, Invicta, Real Crusades History, The Histocrat, History Matters, Thersites the Historian, Epimetheus, Asha Logos, History Uncovered, Dovahhaty, Embrace historia, HistoryMarche, History Time, Archaia Historia, Masaman, Historia Civilis, BazBattles, Epic History TV, Neglected History, LindyBeige, Jabzy.
Have fun!
Dan Davis, Fall of civilizations, and history with Cy included with all the previously named. But imo fall of civilizations is top tier content.
lmao, the Vogue cover, if only we had articles like that from the ancient world, that'd be awesome
I actually thought it was real, like Vogue had a look on roman/greek ancient fashion. I would have read that
I was tickled by Rome hub
@@KingSlimjeezy hermaphrodite porn.
The "RomeHub" with the "too hot for YT" warning made me spit my tea😂 Also, I'm just curious about the "Key Looks from the Mediolanum Fashion Week" on the Vogue cover. The humor in Toldinstone videos is peerless. 👌
Damn, I didn't know Hadrian was such an avid snowboarder; I thought the Romans were skiers only! I knew Antinous loved to snowboard, but I guess now that I think about it, it makes sense.
the one time Anitinoos went swiming didn't work out so well
@@kleinweichkleinweich Don't have to know how to swim to shred that powder! Extreme! (Now I'm picturing Antinous in a Mountain Dew/Surge/Doritos commercial from the late 90s/early 2000s with a Nu Metal soundtrack)
th-cam.com/users/shortshfk5qxjALso?si=BOBWrqV_caFq38hw
@@jona.scholt4362
Scandinavians have been skiing for thousands of years, so it's actually not that farfetched.
@@kleinweichkleinweich Haha ! 😅
Academics always claim that beauty standards were different in the past (it seems an important academic ritual to state that we can't apply our current values on the past) but when I look at old statutes and paintings I notice mostly commonalities. There are some strange exceptions like the oval faces of japanese art and uncertainty around highly stylized art (Inca, African) but a lot of ancient art, Egyptian, Etruscan, Hindu seems not very alien to modern taste.
Agreed. I think it has something to do for our modern inclination to stress liberalism. For instance, I noticed women usually have long hair across many different cultures and time periods.
@@user-qq8uf2rn9p as far as I am aware for most of history men had long hair too. Ancient Romans are rather an exception. We in the west adopted the “empire” aesthetic of short cropped hair at the start of the nineteenth century. Before that not only men wore long hair, they also used wigs to compensate for nature deficiencies. 😊
True. Youth, light skin, regular facial features and an hourglass body are widespread standards for feminine beauty. Even if exceptions to some standards exist I doubt that there ever was a society that didn't had youth as a feminine beauty standard.
It's trivially easy to demonstrate that standards of beauty are different across time and place. You don't need to look as far back as the Etruscans; just look at differences in hairstyles and apparel between, say, 1980, and today. Or how fair skin was at various points considered highly attractive, whereas today many women go to tanning salons.
Similarly, large breasts were considered unattractive in (certain) Roman periods, since they were associated with older women, but now they are considered desirable by many.
@@Unknown-jt1jo Yes it is obvious that there are different fashions and cultural changes too. I'm just tired of historians stressing how we can't apply our current thinking to the past. For one part that is obvious, as you say, and for another part it is not true.
Sad there was no mention of the prevalence of the unibrow as a Greco-Roman beauty standard
Me trying to explain to my girlfriend why I think she's beautiful:
😭
Ahhh ! 😂🎉 It's that tragic expression of loneliness and disdain when you turn on the football.
@@anjou6497 ?
Looks like the ancients had interesting uses for jars as well...
Only the truly cultured will appreciate this comment.
dodgy comment
They had to make use without shoeboxes
"You must go for that little blue jar, Patton's Kiss and Tell" (Donald Fagen)😃
Great episode, I want to thank you while I was just a student in school I loved ancient history, but fell out of love with it for years, because of your vids I am now more in love with ancient history than ever before, eternally grateful!
Back in 2003 I took "Busabout" through Europe (that was a long time ago, but it was good for college-age tourists).. When we crossed the border into Italy, the guide warned that young ladies, especially those with blond hair, might be the object of unwanted attention. Some things never change I guess.
Theres tons of blondes in Italy...especially in North Italy, where they constitute the majority of the population in many areas. I find it quite funny this stereotype - almost always coming from the US - about Italians only having brown hair. I always have american friends acting surprised when they come to Italy and realize that blonde hair are quite common, just like Italians with asian traits or black or latino etc. Italy is a quite multiethnic place, and it has been for millenials.
@@DavideGobbicchi Almost all Italian immigrants to the Americas came from Southern Italy, where dark hair and somewhat dark skin are the norm. Those are the only "Italians" that most people in the United States have ever seen, so it's natural for them to presume that that's what Italians in Italy look like as well.
@@DavideGobbicchi Yes, though strong, thick dark hair has something to do with past genetics dealing with weather; much like darker skin in Africa copes much better with scorching heat than paler europeans...and it's interesting too, that chestnut coloured horses have more fragile skin, and prefer sun on their backs rather than harsh winter cold...
@@DavideGobbicchi The blondes in Italy are rare, many italian blondes are dyed, not naturally blondes. Only one or two regions have many natural blondes. This can easy verified observing that there are more italian female blondes than male ones. This is because the italian women usually have brown or black hair, like the men, but due to fashion, many women dye their hairs, because men found them more attractive.
@@DavideGobbicchi The north of Italy is of Slavic origin, most of them have the R1a haplogroup, as you go south, Africans start to predominate.
I always appreciate your pragmatic attitude toward the evidence you present. It makes your channel a valuable source of entertainment
For the record, old hair styles are about being able to afford a stylist, not looking good. The big hairdos of the 80s looked goofy and that's a firsthand account.
"being able to afford a stylist, not looking good" I highly doubt that is the only reason. They're known to sacrifice comfort to look good.
"The big hairdos of the 80s looked goofy and that's a firsthand account."
For you but not for me.
Full of 💩
If you think the hairdos of the ‘80s looked goofy you never watched pictures of the previous decades.
Or of Trump. 😂
80s hairdos were the pinnacle of beauty. We truly live in society expunged of culture if we're now claiming they are anything but
I had to watch as soon as this popped up! I love watching your videos. Please continue to enlighten us. Between you and Mary Beard, I've learned quite a bit visually, as I read Suetonius, Livy and Tacitus.
I finally got your new book. I’m very excited for it. Your first book was such a blast to read.
I just wrote about the same so I very much agree.
Every Friday, I look forward to these videos.
One of the best ancient history channels!!, keep it up. Cheers!
I just bought your newest book to read on vacation!! Love your content keep it up
Another great video! And hearty congratulations on your book.
I think we should try to find "Hadrian's Halfpipe"
Well the Scots play bagpipe so I think we'll have to search somewhere up north.
Great video! Excited to do a tour with you!😊
This was tastefully done. I'm glad it was fully aware of the nuance that exists in history. Great video!
I'm new to the channel but I want to say that it's absolutely fantastic! Thank you for the quality content and I look forward to catching up!
When the Romans reached Germania (their name for the lands of Germany), they brought to Rome captured Germanic women as slaves, who were natural blondes. The Roman men liked these blondes a lot. The women of Rome understood this with a grudge, considering unfair competition. The first to adapt were the prostitutes of Rome: they dyed their hair to be blonde. As result, in Rome from those days, "blonde locks" became synonym with prostitute, literally!
Poppaea Sabina, Roman empress as the second wife of the emperor Nero, was hated by many people, with some justified reasons, if I remember right. She also started to dye her hair to be blonde, to the great satisfaction of her enemies, because "blonde locks" was already in use to define prostitutes.
And yet to the present day, Italian men seem very attracted to women who have blonde and even red hair. I received a lot of attention when I went out on the street because of my auburn hair, even from men half my age.
The Romans never reached "Germania". They tried twice, the first time no one came back, the second only Caesar and a dozen others. The Germans are also a people of smoky origin, in today's Germany everything that is beautiful and blond is actually of Slavic origin.
@@serahloeffelroberts9901 And if you had just seen an auburn woman,when I appear with steel blue eyes and a height of 190 cm.
@@serahloeffelroberts9901Red hair isn’t at all uncommon in Italy.
This is so good. Thank you!
Babe, wake up! New toldinstone just dropped
So funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣 xdddd I have never heard that before. You r really funny
Cringe
THEY HIT THA PENTAGON LYLE!
Great job on this video.
Great video on a great subject.
Love your work!
Interesting topic. A problem for the video is that most of the pictorial depictions are not from Ancient Rome or Ancient Greece, but from Romanticized 19th century re-imaginings of what they wanted to think Romans and Greeks were like.
Avery interesting subject, well presented.
ooo this is gonna be a good one
Thanks for posting unique history videos.
❤❤
5:08
I love this visual lol
a good book on the matter of the different social periods is Storia della bellezza. Umberto Eco (2004, co-edited with Girolamo de Michele) and of course his partner Storia della bruttezza (Bompiani, 2007) they really show via language, art and history the conceptions of beauty
Take the words of a postmodernist with a grain of salt.
I want Romehub now
i needed my fix! also by his books they are great fun.
thank for your info. good clip~!
Love your stuff, you monotone man, you.
There are indeed objective standards of beauty.
In every known human culture, a woman's hips are expected to be wider than a her waist, while a man's shoulders are expected to be wider. Per a documentary I saw years ago, Masai men (considered effeminately skinny by Western standards) and both sexes in Samoa (considered overweight) conform to average world ratios (incidentally, the waist/hip ratios of Marilyn Monroe and Kate Moss were determined to be the same).
The same documentary also explored the imporance of symmetry between features. A Victorian experiment of finding the "typical criminal" by averaging hundreds of photos together resulted in a face better looking than expected. More recently, a complex calculation of several dozen symmetrical relationships between the eyes, nose, and mouth was applied to the photos of about 20 celebrities, and results matched what most people would think instinctively (FYI, the celebrity closest to Perfect Beauty was Mariel Hemingway).
'A Victorian experiment of finding the "typical criminal" by averaging hundreds of photos together resulted in a face better looking than expected.' I don't think that supports your argument.
@hilariousname6826 Why not? With a high enough sample, the deviations from a perfect face start canceling each other out.
How on earth does the idea that the "typical criminal" is 'better looking than expected' support the idea that there are 'objective standards of beauty'? At best, it seems a circular argument.@@screamingalgae9380
@@screamingalgae9380 I'd be wary of most claims of their being a globally objective beauty standard. Can get really uncomfortable if it goes in a bad direction. Lol.
Thank you thank you thank you!!! I’ve been wanting this video for so long! I love your content so much ❤❤❤❤
Beauty standards always change over time. I can remember the 60s when women were expected to be well proportioned and thinnish but not athletic or fit.
theres a difference between what the loudest people are shouting and what people actually think. in the 60s the loudest people were shouting that women should be a certain way, not fit, but men all really felt that a fit woman is more attractive than a not-fit one. the biological hard-wired desire for a young, healthy, fit, intelligent woman doesnt change with politics or decades.
That’s still how it is. It’s not like dudes are out there seeking girls with “athletic” bodies. More like “not fat” but I suppose some girls think that means becoming some kind of bodybuilder, but no guy wants that
@@noahkreb6827I'm the guy. I'm the guy that wants that.
@@brianmahoney4156how do you know what they all really felt?
@@twosharksinatrenchcoat No the male beauty standard is whatever women wanted, do you think that men don't know what men get the most attention from women?
I'm surprised YT didn't throw a fit at the Venus statues.
A bit misleading. Clearly, since our artists consistently reproduce the art of the Romans and Greeks, there is significant overlap, not difference, between our ideas of female beauty. The differences between Pompeii's frescoes and Ovid's recommendations also show a similar range to ours.
While I agree to some degree with the idea that the past is an alien planet, sexuality is one of those things that remains relatively constant for most people, with the exceptions emerging on the fringes or as status signaling.
I'm glad you also mentioned greek sources. I believe both cultures are worth mentioning in this topic.
I always found it strange that images of beauty from antiquity share vastly more in common with modern standards of beauty (19th century onwards) than medieval standards of beauty even though we are much more culturally connected to the societies of medieval Europe.
I didn't know I needed that Hadrian edit
delicious, when it comes to coffee, is also a fantasy... it all depends on who with, where and how you are drinking!
Speaking of beauty: this was the first time I’ve seen your face! You’re a handsome guy!
I would be interested in hearing about tattoos in the ancient world. Thank you.
If im not mistaken i believe one of his older videos touched on the topic. You might want to check his channel
Only the unwashed/unimaginative barbarians of the north would have found them acceptable, I'm sure. Let us hope the current fad of doing so becomes ancient history itself.
@@jrodowenspeople have tattooed themselves for thousands of years so i doubt it will stop 😂
She's a dangerous beauty. Deadly
There was some reference to the Romans liking British slaves, with their pale skin, particularly the ones with red hair, because of the way they looked....Though for health reasons ,someone able to produce vitamin D with very little access to sunshine would be a great advantage...less risk of deformed hips ,etc(?), also the metal associated with Venus is copper, and the Sun ,Gold...so they would also be seen as auspicious colours?
Celts in Italy are sun cancer farms.
I remember reading some years ago that big butts were very appreciated in classical Greece. They even held a female competition during the Olympic Games, and in one occasion, the twin daughters of a shepherd tied and had to do a rematch.
I find that funny because I feel like that’s something society tends to appreciate as well, in both women and men, and a big butt competition could easily be happening now.
*Cue Sir Mixalot and Nicki Minhaj*
Yes there is an aphrodite statue, the kalipigos, which is translated as the one with a beautiful butt. She was mentioned and shown in the video.
hey toldinstone, did romans every have environmental regulations? Would projects be blocked in fear of destruction of ecosystems or pollution in city centers?
I'd expect, at the very least, they'd be against something that would obviously poison their water.
@@kanrakucheeseYou'd think so, but I remember reading about Roman Iberian mines that blackened the nearby rivers and filled the skies with soot. I'd love to see a video about it.
Not really! Ancient Rome was really, really nasty: it wasn't rivalled until Birmingham and Manchester et al in the 19th century, which were genuinely terrible places pollution-wise. The amount of smog was absolutely incredible.
I remember reading that Caesar banned carts inside the city limits of Rome because they were big and noisy and dropped horse poops everywhere.
Other than that, I don't think a civilization which doomed itself by turning every forest area into farmlands in Italy, cared much about the environment.
This topic, female beauty was prob THE most questioned subject in every class I taught, because as you noted, what is considered beautiful is vastly different from one period to another, once country or province, one culture to another and students (any age) get lost in superficial details. With the female body they - we - have all been taught HOW to look at the Female from the Greeks (as they also taught us how to know what a Male body is (and for 100’s of years it was always one of immaculate power and perfection. With the female it is considerably more culture based - to the Ancient Greek the sight of any nude female would have been highly unlikely, unless it was their wife or paid courtesan. Women had NO role in Greek society (well outside of Sparta, but that’s another story) even at its height in Athens if you walked down the street one in four people might have been a free citizen - if they were male - the rest, the other three? Females, slaves, children, barbarians, in other words, not YOU. And if you saw a nude/naked woman, well … Dr Andrew Stewart wrote an engaging chapter on this topic, not quite the wit and charm you have Garrett, but good enough to get me thru my classes - and all I had to tell them was the Greeks gave THEM the right, the thrill, the unexpected privilege of seeing a nude woman, however she may be proportioned or appear - “she” is not for their eyes, and this is quite beyond that old ‘male gaze’ concept of years ago, it is a timeless vision you were never meant to share for she is, indeed, a goddess. And just who are you?
As always Garrett, you are a gem, merci mille fois!
Please do next about male beauty
It’d be nice to know about the male beauty standards in Rome as well.
Many Greeks around Thessaloniki are actually blond or with light hair. Some say they had Gothic influence.
Goths and Bulgarians: Do you know why?
there are cultural aspects of beauty and natural timeless aspects of beauty. women that are considered beautiful today would've been considered beautiful at any time. style, weight, age preference, these things can change through time and culture, but the basic bone structure of beauty remains the same. look at Botticelli and ancient roman frescos. ie beauty like all things is paradoxical, beauty is both cultural, and is a timeless platonic form.
beauty, as understood here, is a phenomenon of culture, not the personal beauty of an individual... I would say, what is described fairly well outlines the norms "beauties" may have strived towards... especially in a more courtier like setting... though I do wonder whether, as with Mythological Nudity, some of it is a form of symbolism of how something is meant to look in art/legend rather than real life. the image of the Roman girl and the sort of makeup she would use drawn by Amici, certainly does not seem to so much align with the more Goddess like statues and pictures associated with classical Rome, but then, one has to wonder whether that is also a case of more literary-allusive elite tastes being rather divergent from the plebian tastes, where somewhat stronger forceful features gained prominence...
either way, I think the Roman model of Beauty served as a founding for a lot of more modern European aesthetic (both genders) up to the early 20th century... certainly, it appears far more "normal" than when talking about the aesthetics found to be beautiful for a Lady of the Japanese high Courtiers(which, if you are not used to it, can appear totally alien to one), or Chinese, or even that traditional in medieval Muscovy from what we gather
Love those Fayum Poraits
if she looked anything like Diane Kruger from the "Troy" movie with Brad Pitt than yes... yes she would.
Thank you
Politely requesting a video on Alexander's conquests in the far eastern ranges, like Arrian's account of the Sogdian Rock.
Garrett, you left out the statue of Pauline Borghese by Canova in the Borghese Palace in Rome.
Beauty ideal’s most have changed infinite times during such a long period!
Hey Toldinstone, saw you on Forehead Fables and I love your content. Can't wait to order your books (I can read.) Hope to see you on the cast again someday, even if it's just to promote another book. Love combining your straight-man energy with those three morons.
Callipygian is still a word in English. Though today one could simply translate it as "THICC".
That last statue is straight up ancient Roman 'Thicc Venus" by definition.
Also did I hear that right? There's an official record of some dude trying to 'do' the statue? 🤣
No - it was recounted pointedly as not from an 'official record'.
Biggest difference between what makes a jaw drop now and then would likely be fitness. Tight dummies, shapley shoulders, long well-muscled but slim legs would have been quite rare in a society where elite women did not exercise regularly. The Greeks were worse but Helen was married to the king of Sparta. Yet she was not a Spartan woman. Many of THEM would make jaws drop today. But they were also admired by delegations from Athens who'd likely never seen an extremely fit woman before 😉
Francis Lauer from Brazil was here. (13th - III - 2024)
I think it is a liitle bit deceiving to view the availlable (especially naked) female images of this time as beauty standards. They simply portrayed what they got. Frina was the most beautiful woman who was ready to pose naked but not THE most beautiful woman.
In times of hunger and disease a first-class beauty as we know it today was VERY rare, almost impossible to have. I am sure, the privilege to see the super-top beauties of that time was restricted to a very closed circle of very rich and powerfull aristocrats.
If You look at the Hollywood beauties of the 20s and early 30s (ordinary looking women according to today's beauty standarts) and a (very few, mostly family portraits) images of the top-class beauties, planned to be married to members of the establishment of that time, You will understand what I mean.
Will there be a part 2 about roman men's beautiful?
I'm guessing tanned/dark skin would be on that list.
Since the Classical Greco-Roman world, but Rome especially, produced naturalistic sculptures and realistic sculptural portraiture, we can easily see what standards of beauty were held desirable during that period. Thought less naturalistic, even the artistic conventions of the preceding Archaic period reveal ancient ideals of beauty. They are very like our own today. Proportioned face, not too broad, symmetrical features, high cheekbones, straight nose, defined lips, big eyes. Alternative to large eyes: almond-shaped eyes. The standards for beautiful women have been set since long before the Roman Civilization. Just look at La Dama De Elche from Iberia circa 500BC. If you want to look at Rome, look at the emperor Hadrian's wife Sabina, of whom many sculptural portraits were made. She was extremely beautiful by today's standards. Today's standards may have been finally formed in the Bronze Age after 45,000 years of sexual selection.
As the video’s author reminded to us, “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. Personally, I like the facial features of the Slavic and Germanic women, and I have to mention it, to explain why the women of Rome never looked special to me, as they were shown in statues, mosaics, paintings and pottery.
Visiting the ancient Roman section of the Metropolitan Museum of Art (New York City), I looked to a row of heads from statues of Roman women. To my surprise, many faces were beautiful! Then, at that row, I saw a plate with the explanation, something like: “After 200 AD, the artists started to IDEALIZE the features of the women, not representing reality as before.”
Ha, ha, ha, that is why those Roman women looked so good!
uma das pinturas de "beleza" se parece MUITO comigo.. nunca achei que encontraria uma imagem tão parecida, uau.
obs: sou considerado comum hoje em dia.
Personally, I take these "what was the ideal female beauty" with a grain of salt. How many articles do we get of what the "ideal modern female beauty".
I was always taught that beauty comes from within.
Always fun to imagine what hypothetical future archeological and historians would conclude about our supposed beauty standards, hundreds of years into the future, if primarily a tiny fraction of higher class writings and art survived, and basically all of it by men.
The Venus Callipyge is quite callipygian!
Nothing is socially-constructed about beauty in my opinion, nor what is deemed physically attractive. I was a morbidly obese guy and after losing 120kg in 2017, and becoming a toned athletic young man ever since, let’s just say I’ve become slightly more popular with both sexes, taken or single, younger or older. 🤷♂️
In the medieval times, being fat meant you were well-off, meaning you were attractive. So yeah beauty changes over time. I mean there's a reason why Rubens painted all that fat women.
Interesting picture of the brothel bed in Pompeii. If I remember correctly there is another one that is simply carved from a big stone. That's bewildering to me. If I were going to construct a bed the LAST thing I would make it out of is stone or masonry. Didn't they have any wood??
They would lay hay or any other kind of soft plant in a big sack and use it as mattress, like we did before latex and modern mattresses.
It’s quite possible that the woman bent over the lightly padded platform, or crouched on it , with the client behind her. Time is money in a brothel.
can you please tell me the name of the intro song?
"Good gods, I don't think I ever want to see an amphor of wine for the rest of my life. I hope no one saw me buggering that statue last night..."
2000 years later in a short doc about beauty standards in your country....
Beauty is objective, some things are more beautiful than others. What varies is the different levels and abilities of people to perceive what is beautiful and what isn’t. Perfect example is rich people with no taste and terrible yet expensive art.
Nope.
@@hilariousname6826 If you can't argue your case why even comment?
@@hilariousname6826 You better not tell any woman she is beautiful then, since beauty being subjective would make it a meaningless term.
@@ericgarcia4049 whether or not fries taste good is subjective because some people just don‘t like fries, this does not mean me telling my mom the fries she made are tasty is a meaningless statement. What a non-sequitur. How are subjective statements meaningless? „I love you“ is a subjective statement as well. Please establish that subjective statements are indeed meaningless (and what meaningless means here or why someone ought to care it‘s meaningless) before you just jump to that concluding statement.
@@hannahgoldkamp8888 Hannah, I'm tired of writing really long comments no one ever reads. If I parsed out every little distinction I'd be here all night, but I'll indulge you a bit. Yes, every one of us perceives reality from a subjective perspective that's all we know from experience. Instead of fries let's say it's 60 degrees outside: a Floridian might think that's cold, a Michigander might think that's warm, but the objective truth is that it's 60F outside, no matter how you perceive that temperature to be. Same for how you like your coffee, favorite colors, etc, in these cases your subjective statements are not meaningless, but they are just your subjective experiences and opinions of our objective reality.
The principle of there being an objective truth (or beauty) however is a different thing entirely. If it's 60F outside and a news station starts gaslighting people telling them it's 80F and another one says it's 40F, etc, until no one can agree on what temp it is then the entire concept of measuring temperature would become meaningless at best. Hell just start making thermometers with random numbers at that point. This is far from the true insidious evil of moral relativism however, because truth and virtue are infinitely more fundamental than physical experiences like taste or temperature.
When a civilization is taken over by moral relativism, it becomes insane, acts against nature and reality itself, and is ultimately destroyed. You can see it in Western civilization right now which is now at war with many basic truths and yes reality itself in contentious political battles as we speak, I'm sure I don't have to name them, but this war on reality actually started as a war against beauty. We could probably discuss that ad infinitum as well.
An interesting thing about the concept of beauty you might not know is that in the 50's and 60's it is well documented that the US government and intelligence agencies funded and promoted post-modern art as a weapon of psychological warfare. The state-party line is that it was intended as a form of cultural weaponization against the Soviets, but it was actually much more nefarious than that. You can read a lot about this but in short they wanted to promote art that was ugly, vapid, and disordered and reward it financially to the public. Why you might ask? Well this reveals an interesting and inseparable connection between truth and beauty itself, because even if you want to argue they did not intend it initially they soon discovered that if a people can't agree or distinguish what is objectively beautiful, then they will not be able to distinguish what is objectively true either. You want proof it worked? Look at all the millions and millions of useful idiots saying things like, "this is my truth" or "that's only your truth", "don't challenge my truth", etc without acknowledging for one second that there is only THE TRUTH, and various degrees of perception aka opinions about the truth of something.
Go look up a picture of one of Michelangelo's masterpieces like the David and then a picture of that damn toilet seat with "R Mutt" written in sharpie and tell me which is objectively more beautiful? You instinctively know the right answer to that question; and if you say neither it's only in the eye of the beholder, you're only lying to yourself. Take this comparison to the nth degree and you can conceptualize the ultimate uncreated truth, goodness, and beauty which is God and also its ultimate but yet finite corruption and hideousness which is the devil.
I wrote more stuff but I took it out and I'm going to leave it here. I would appreciate your response on these thoughts, I don't like how many people just disagree with me and then won't respond once I present my case.
I never thought I would see censorship on this channel
Glad you wrote it this way. How people made art then and now were for different purposes with some outliers that are similar. Glad it wasn't the "GREEK LOVED FAT WOMEN" no they had the average female body type, could be within the bounds of women had bodies and they were just illustrating the common body.
Question: Are there any records of ancient greeks and romans putting actual clothes on their scuptures?
Short answer is Yes, but the only specific example I know is the statue of Athena at the Parthenon.
2:50, Has this statue of Aphrodite require repair, or are the seams merely the requirement for multiple pieces of marble?
It's confusing that this video is called "The Roman Ideal of Female Beauty" yet the use of Greek sculpture and art in the video is so heavily represented. The Greek ideals were not the same.
Omg you showed your face !!! You good looking bastard!!
I'm gonna Roooooooome!
They were into headbands, for sure!
what the .... 0:33
hahahaha
It's interesting that the tale of Orpheus and his extreme devotion to hs wife Eurydice making him go down to Hades to try to retrieve her, only to lose her again on the long journey back up to the surface, doesn't seem to have made much of an impact on the classical Greeks. It is sparsely represented or alluded to in surviving at and literature, especially on the painted pots. In classical Athens. emotional and romantic love was primarily something happening between men. It's the Romans that really picked up on the story of Orpheus and Eúrydice and made it a key part of Orpheus' mythology; the Romans were closer to modern, straight ideas of romantic affection.
Beauty is a external manifestation of internal genetic forces. All humans from the dawn of the species have had a set of standards with ranges in them. From the artwork around the world humans have always had a set of standards that are reckoned beautiful. Thus beauty is not in the eye of the beholder.
Wrong.
you really shouldn't try to reduce aesthetics to mere darwinism. i know it might sound plausible if one is not philosophically inclined, but it's just incoherent.
@@gumis123PL how is it incoherent, humans respond to certain geometries, colors, symmetries, smells, etc. These are hardwired into us by our evolutionary inheritance. That’s why all humans are fearful of diseases, malformed faces, putrid smells, etc. From the artwork of the Roman’s there certainly isn’t much of a difference between what they found beautiful in men and women to us or for that matter with other societies.
A few more subscribers and you'll pass the 500,000 milestone. C'mon folks, subscribe and make it happen.
"Insane Emperors, Sunken Cities, and Earthquake Machines", I am eager to read it. I enjoyed the first book.
The enchanting Arabian beauty of Julia Domna.
5:06
Ah you miss the opportunity talking about Nymph. What I've known about Hellenic Mythology, Nymph is the elite personification of beautiful environment.
5:15
This reminds me of another video of someone trying to reconstruct what Helen of Troy looked like. Really interesting vid: th-cam.com/video/F7bKwTQf25o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hqbOJ4-mS4i28C89