Here's what actually happened: In his youth, Joseph Smith secretly traveled the globe, walked the Incense Trail, excavated the Bar’an Temple, found the NHM inscription, reburied the temple, learned Hebrew, studied ancient Jewish law, discovered chiasmus, practised chiastic poetry, found the Dead Sea Scrolls, inserted text into them, used everything he learned to compose the Book of Mormon, memorized it, and dictated it off the top of his head--all so he could be harassed, beaten, falsely imprisoned and murdered. Either that, or he was actually a prophet.
And all that by the time he was early 20’s as well as reading numerous books that didn’t exist in the library or at all in the early 1800’s and duplicating names similar to what is in the Book of Mormon before they even existed. Either way he is amazing. 😮
@@wendyfoster5579 What books? Joseph Smith Jr. was born across the river from Dartmouth University. The reason the university was placed there was to reach out to the Native American Indians. There motto is "A voice crying in the wilderness" and their seal is an image of Native American Indians coming to the school, holding a Bible while the light of God shines down from an open Bible in the sky above. Several students from Dartmouth published books claiming the Native America Indian was a lost tribe of Israel. One of these books claimed to be their history that was found buried in the Earth. This was published before the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith Sr. frequently met with the men of the community at the university. He attended lectures and participated in conversations concerning the Native America Indian. Hyrum Smith attended the prep school on the Dartmouth campus. Joseph Smith Sr. and Alvin Smith were initiated into Freemasonry at Dartmouth. The exterior of the Kirtland Temple is a replica of the center portion of the main building at Dartmouth. The Interior is a replica of the main lecture hall. Dartmouth was just two buildings in those days. The professor John Smith's main goal was to convert the Native American Indians and bring them unto Christ. This is the environment Joseph Smith was born into. There are NO books that didn't exist or were not accessible to these professors. Please inform me of the books you are speaking of.
Ben, hopefully redfightblue added some context to your comment. We don’t claim Joseph was able to accomplish what you mentioned, but there are many other possibilities that, it would be nice for you to consider as well. Not only that Joseph truly received this revelation that is completely contradicted by his following revelations. Hopefully that makes sense. God doesn’t contradict himself, also, if a prophesy/command is not fulfilled, the prophet that claims to receive it is a false prophet, that is very simple. One simple example, the building of Zion didn’t get fulfilled in Ohio nor in Illinois. That is a false prophesy, plain and simple, I hope you see that, no offense intended. Thanks and GB!
Thank you so much for making this video, it's a concise easy to follow presentation of information from so many sources and by so many scholars. I will refer people to this as a springboard to the Old World evidences. This is a great primer to watch before the "Journey of Faith" documentary. I can't wait for you guys to do a similar introductory video for the New World evidences. Keep them coming and God bless!
Don't let this video be just another TH-cam video, connect the dots. If this is true then the Book of Mormon is also a true testament of Jesus Christ. This has remarkable implications!
@@craigjohnson7298 My gosh Craig, I didn’t know we Latter-day Saints had our own Kool-aid! But you know, it can’t be as good as the Pineapple juice at Jollibee. Admired brother of cute snark, slick slight, playground sound: keep up the good work. The world needs more smirk, punk sarcasm, and ignorance.
The journey was up the Nile river. That's where you'll find the river 3 days from the Red Sea. That's where you'll find the altar Lehi built. That's where you'll find evidence for Sariah. The BOM describes a journey from Jerusalem to Suez, Suez to the Nile River, up the Nile to Aswan, after Aswan they took the overland Dongola Bend shortcut across the desert, the returned to the Nile and journeyed to modern day Khartoum. From there they took the East branch of the Nile (Blue Nile) to Ethiopia. The text of the Book of Mormon describes this journey as well as the Tree of Life vision. Lehi was on an island near Aswan when he had the vision. The vision clearly tells him to not stay in Egypt but to follow the river to Ethiopia. Ethiopia is the land Lehi believed to be the Garden of Eden and the location of the Tree of Life. Ethiopia fits the description of "Bountiful" perfectly. Isaiah prophesized missionaries will be sent beyond Egypt. Lehi fulfilled this prophecy. Isaiah prophesized an altar to the lord would be built on the border of Egypt. Lehi fulfilled this prophecy. The angel tells Lehi he was following the Word of God (Iron Rod) to the Tree. The prophecies of Isaiah are those "Words of God". The journey to the tree is along a river bank. The river in the vision is the Nile. The vision talks about those that fall away on forbidden paths and are lost. This correlates to Jeremiah's warnings to not go into Egypt or be destroyed. The vision shows how to pass through Egypt without being destroyed. The Book of Abraham tells us Egypt is forbidden. These are the forbidden paths Lehi sees. The Nile River is the river Lehi renames after Laman. He says it flows into the "fountain of all righteousness" and then into the Red Sea. This fountain is the navigable shipping canal built from the Nile River Delta to the Red Sea. This canal roughly parallels the 3 day journey from the Red Sea to the Nile River. The word "fountain" is Lehi's description of what we would call a canal. We know Laman does not partake of the fruit and becomes wicked. When the angel tells Nephi Laman's seed will destroy his seed, the angel says "the river that thy father saw" here he is talking about the River Laman which is the Nile. He says the fountain will become filthy. This is because the destruction happens upstream from the fountain (canal). Laman's turn to wickedness is contrary to Lehi's wish. Lehi wanted Laman to flow into the fountain of all righteousness but the angel shows Lehi that Laman will not partake of the fruit and his hope is not reality. Laman will flow as a filthy river into the filthy fountain, the depths of Hell. The Greek historian Herodotus describes many things found in the Book of Mormon in the 5th century BC. Lehi's sailing journey, the "fountain" (canal) and the Book of Mormon lands with a land to the North, a land to the South, a narrow neck of land between and the land to the South is surrounded by water except the narrow neck that connects to the North. He was describing Africa. The Book of Mormon takes place in Africa and is an African text. It was written by Jews that escaped the Babylonian destruction by immigrating to Ethiopia. They believed Ethiopia was the Biblical Garden of Eden. Ethiopia was their promised land. In Joseph Smiths day, the Book of Mormon had many parallels to America. Joseph Smith believed America was the promised land, the land preserved by God for the second coming, the new Jerusalem and the gathering of Israel.
Im confused so do you believe the book of mormon is true then? Cuz you're arguing against joseph smith while simultaneously believing that the book of mormon was written by lehi. That makes no sense
@@jesscast94 Right, the solution would have to be that the BOM was an Old World text written in Ethiopia by Ethiopian Jews. It must have been discovered but never published. My guess is it was discovered by James Bruce in the 1700's. He discovered lots of manuscripts in Ethiopia that his scribes copied. He published some but allegedly there were many more in the process of being translated into English and being prepared for publication when he died. Then you have to look at what was happening in America in the early 1800's. There was a debate going on about the origin of the Native American Indian. Their presence was a problem for Bible believers. Why did God allow them to live and die (and go to Hell) so far separated from the possibility of knowing Christ for 1800 years? Many people began proposing they were a "lost tribe of Israel". That's what the Book of Mormon does. The real "lost tribes" in the Book of Mormon, who were Ethiopian Jews, Were replaced with the Native American Indian and a religion was formed around this concept. An American religion for Americans. A new religion, for the last days. All the prophecies the Ethiopians wrote in the Book of Mormon about Africa being the Promise Land for the Last Days are swapped out and it's now America. Ether 13:7 says "Egypt". It does not say America. This is the Lords "TYPE" it says. Egypt is the Lords TYPE. They were promoting Africa and they knew nothing about America. Also, I recently realized that the Jaredites are the people Lehi sees in the Tree of Life Vision. They are the "prophets of old".
@@RS-tz2zn No, that would presume that Smith was truly as accurate as the video implys. I can actually do a not to bad job of fitting Nephi's journey, as told in the BoM, into the geography of my state of South Australia. I can do this by using the same method this video does of selectively choosing descriptions from the book, that support my argument. Many of the accounts in Nephi's journey are also vague enough that they can be interpreted in a way that supports whatever conclusion one wishes to reach. Add to this the fact that the story was written to fit the geography of the Arabian Peninsula/Israel. Something that Joseph Smith had at minimum, a vague knowledge of. Even the video recognises it's not impossible for Smith to have had foreknowledge of many of these details, by using language such as "so there's a good chance he didn't know", instead of just outright saying it was impossible for him to know. Just for future reference, trying to strawman someone else's position, through the use of the "so your saying" trap is very intellectually dishonest. It's also just not a very effective strategy, as was seen in the now infamous debate last year between Jordan Peterson, and Cathy Newman.
@@chrisfromsouthaus2735 what about the whole land of N-H-M being where it should be, and called what it should be, They worshiped a pagan god in those areas, but their are places where it matches including just the name Nahom that's in the book of mormon. I don't think proves joseph Smith or the book of mormon. Just Cool from an outside perspective.
Nahom has problems. There's just three letters on the alter "NHM" and they don't refer to a "place" like the BOM says. The letters refer to a nomadic tribe of people that aren't living near the alter. To say Nahom has been found is major stretch. The land of Bountiful also has serious trouble. That area on the coast of Yemen/Oman is hardly "bountiful". In fact, there's hardly enough wood to build a hut to live in. Building a ship from the trees in that area would be impossible. Finding enough wood for a ship anywhere on the Arabian peninsula has been nearly impossible for thousands of years. Especially a ship that could survive a trans-ocean journey. Also, the river described by Lehi that empties into the Red Sea cannot be the Wadi Tayyib. Wadi Tayyib does not flow continually. It never has. For most of the year the wadi is completely dry. That's why it's called a wadi. Wadi means dry river bed. It's a massive contradiction to say a wadi flows year round.
Not only what redfightblue said, but the narrator says that Joseph Smith wouldn't even know that Jerusalem was a walled city in 1829 which is blatantly false since the Bible specifically speaks of it. Shucks, the main story line of Nehemiah was the rebuilding of the wall. Numerous times the Bible speaks of different gates in that wall, and Hezekiah had to build an underground passageway to bring water inside it. So be careful with the claims of this video. When a narrator is willing to say such obviously false statements, you have to wonder how honest he is with the rest.
@@blusheep2 It was Emma that said Joseph asked her about the walls of Jerusalem. Seeing how she was there and you weren't I would be careful about coming to the conclusion it is a blatantly false statement.
@@caseykaelin9430 My critique was about the narrator and therefore the credibility of the rest of his claims. It was a warning. If someone in history named Emma recorded that J.Smith asked her about the wall, fine but this narrator presented the issue by implying that J.Smith 'couldn't' have known about it. He used it as evidence for the authenticity of the BoM. He misused us in so doing. He tried to manipulate us into thinking there was something there when there really wasn't. What we are trying to do here is smoke out the authenticity of J.Smith's stories. Is he a fraud and a talented con man or is he authentically a prophet of God. We have way more indications that he was a fraud then that he was a true prophet. Way more. At some point a spade must be called a spade. Those of us on the outside want to see something substantial. The Bible is incredibly supported by archeology and it covers so much more history. The BoM is practically crickets and relies on evidence that is nearly akin to "hey look. there is a river. See the BoM says there is a river. The book is from God." What I want to do is to look at the possibility or even the probability that J.Smith is a fraud. I want to do that because the Bible warns me about people like him, a person who preaches a different gospel then the one preached by Paul and the other apostles. So, is it possible that J. Smith made it all up? Yes! It sure seems so and the use of the Jerusalem wall, inspite of all the knowledge they had about it in J. Smith's days, as an argument for its authenticity just shows the lengths a Mormon apologist must take to defend this work.
@@blusheep2 Joseph Smith certainly could have known if there were walls around Jerusalem. The question is did he? Emma, Joseph's wife, and part time scribe says he did indeed ask that question. The question is fairly well documented. Joseph Smith was a poorly educated young man that did not know much about the Bible. It is entirely possible he missed that bit of information. Somewhere around 1838 or so a man named Howe published a book called Mormanism Unveiled. In it he claimed the BOM can't be true because Laban would not have had a steel sword because Israel had no steel at that time. The older KJV mentions steel three times in the Old Testament. Sometimes people miss things. Emma Smith was an eye witness to the event. You are a distant observer with an opinion. No offence intended.
great video! I believe The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ to be true. It changed my life for the better when I read it during the summer when I was 12 years old. I love The Bible and The Book of Mormon and am so grateful for the wonderful influence of God in my life. ~Alex
If J.S. made all this up, why did he go to such lengths to research the old world to put together information that would have taken amazing amounts of work, yet when the story moves to the Americas, apparently J.S. made no effort to make his story fit within any given area. This would seem to have been much easier to do. I think this only helps to suggest J.S. did no research prior to the b.o.m. being written
@@kenhuntley6575 The BOM is an old World text written by Jews that lived in Ethiopia. Lehi did not sail to America. The Land South is Africa. The Narrow Neck is the Isthmus of Suez.
Excellent video, but is it ok to talk slower next time. Because I am a ward missionary going to show your video to a over 80 year old lady who is going to listen slowly. Thanks so much You are awesome.
Khor Kharfot--oh, THAT'S how you spell it--had to look that one up. Yeah, there's no way Joseph Smith knew much of anything about Arabian geography which makes the Book of Mormon all the more remarkable.
It should also be noted that the general region that Khor Kharfot is located in is spelled "Dhofar." The narrator pronounces it as "Thofar" because that is its technically correct pronunciation. Sort of the way that we ignore usual English rules of pronunciation for words like ballet or rendezvous.
I’m not sure anyone is asserting that Smith knew anything about Arabian geography. Seems like a straw man to me. This video is like a backronym. It’s like an acronym, but you assign meaning to the letters after you come up with the letters.
@@jordanmay6153 If Joseph Smith didn't know anything about Arabian geography, then he was either inspired by God or he was an impossibly lucky guesser.
RCpilot Some other important facts don’t really corroborate the pedophile narrative that antagonists like to paint. Fanny was not considered underage for her time and actually it was quite common for girls to marry at her age. Also he married 80 year old women as well. Even if you persist that there was some sexual perversion going on it is not reflected in any of his writings personal or other wise (of which we have so so so much of). In fact his writings are full of prayers and pleadings with God and faithful teachings and encouragement. He was a beautiful man from everything I can gather but the greatest of all the evidences of his divine calling is the BoM.
The name Nephi is related to the Hebrew word Nephesh (נֶפֶש), which literally means the "complete life of a being" though it is usually used in the sense of "living being" (breathing creature). Many names in the BOM are similar to or come from ancient hebrew. Examples of these are "Aha", "Ammonihah", "Hagoth", "Himni", "Isabel", "Jarom", "Josh", "Luram", "Mathoni", "Mathonihah", "Muloki" and "Sam". Many non-biblical names found in the Book of Mormon resemble words from ancient Hebrew (e.g., "Sariah", "Jarom", and "Josh"). The greatest unearthly power I have felt in my life was praying 35 years ago if the Book of Mormon was true. I felt the power of the Holy Ghost beyond description or words. I was in Cuba last year on vacation. A nice man giving me a tour around his cigar plantation asked me to describe this new thing he heard about in his village called the internet. He had many questions about what it does and how it works. My wife and I did our best to describe it and how it works. He just couldn't understand it at all. He thinks that the internet is out there but he has absolutely no understanding of it or how amazing it is. This is the same as the spirit of God. It is there for all to feel if they seek after it. The sprit of God is a great treasure to mankind that can verify truth. I know, 100% that God lives and that the Book of Mormon is true.
Interestingly, there was a tribe in Arabia along the proposed path Lehi travelled that could be named after Lehi as well as namesakes for Nephi and Sam (not Samuel or Sammi as would be expected in that region) given to children that may have been a way of naming after important teachers as was a custom.
@@PaultheCanadian “It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere...” Prophet Russel M Nelson - 2016
If there is one true church then Satan owns all others. If Satan owns all others that means he will attack the true church persecute them. The church he attacks is the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. So members of the church don't get angry about these comments against our church and try to help these people out.
Brady I’m not against any church, but I can see why the carholic church is under attack. They are responsible for the damages of the crusades, they tried to sell tickets to heaven, they disobey the part of the New Testament where they sell merchandise in their holy houses. Not trying to bag against them, I’m just saying what they have done that people may use against them.
If that's your logic you should be a Jew since they get persecuted more than anyone BY FAR!!! You probably live in Utah so you think the church is persecuted.
One amount of time left out is the eight years traveling east after the broken bow incident. This mean they covered far less than a mile a day if were from the western shore of the Arabian Peninsula to Yemen. Yemen as a site of Bountiful does not seem likely to me!
In 1829, you stated Joseph Smith did'nt even know Jerusalem was a walled city.(1:35) He did know if he read his KJV Bible. The entire book of Nehemiah in the Old Testement, who was a prophet of God, was the historical narrative of the rebuilding of the walled city of Jerusalem. I find it hard to believe Joseph would not have known that as well as anyone who read their Bibles. We know their family had one in his youth.
Joseph Smith said that to deceive Emma Smith, his wife. He wanted her to believe he did not know the Bible and was actually "seeing" a revelation and learning things or the first time in a devine manner. He needed her on board and she was skeptical at first.
Very well done video. Thank you for your work. I studied the work of George Potter and others many years ago including his dvd’s. Since then I have studied many other articles about it. But you concise, well done video makes these truths much more accessible.
Thanks for making this video with your time. It strengthens my testimony, " and signs follow those that believe". There is a mountain of evidence to support JS but it takes alot of searching within and outside the church. You made it alot easier. As -Cleon Schousan- once said, " THE CRITICS KEEPS US QUICK ON OUR FEET".
@@ronanmccabe7902 I don't know what boat. the boat is long gone, because it was made of wood and set sail in 580 BC. The boat Nephi constructed was navigated to the Americas through revelation the group received from the Lord.
One of the greatest evidences of the Book of Mormon is something we're seeing right here. A person can hardly make a comment, post a video, have an opinion or belief - without critics rising up out of the woodwork. The angel Moroni told Joseph Smith that his name would be had for good and evil throughout the world. He was nothing more than an obscure farm boy in a remote part of the world (at that time). It must have seemed impossible. But so it is. Part of that name is the work and legacy he left. And it is unwittingly fulfilled by critics every single day.
@@3DFLYLOW Thank you for proving my point. Your misguided comment had great timing. And fwiw, every parent teaches their children according to their own beliefs. It's one of the many rights and privileges of being a parent. Are you going to teach your children to investigate the claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? I didn't think so. You won't, because you'll indoctrinate them according to your own biases. Thanks again for stopping by and proving my point.
@@TheRealDonLayton Come on Don! Does that mean that because people criticize Scientology that it is true as well? If the church is true, then honest and objective evaluation of the evidence would show that.
@@TheRealDonLayton Then please clarify your point because it sure seems like you are trying to say that because critics are critical, it somehow proves the church to be true.
I heard nahom already appeared in maps and I need non mormon source for the description of the bountiful place. Maybe there are some oress and other things there. But how much and how rare is it in other places, I need such answers from a non mormon source.
You wont find much because these claims are unsupported. Nahom has never been found. The letters NHM on an altar in Marib do not refer to a "place" called Nahom but rather a person who was a Nihimite. These Nihimites appear to be nomadic bedouins that by definition did not have "place" like a city or a village. They moved around the region and disappeared from history without leaving any evidence except the altar in Marib. Yes, the region referred to, spelled different ways (Nehem, Nehhm), was on maps in the 1700's. You can find more by researching the "Nahom Maps". Also google Jim Gee. The Wikipedia page on "Nahom" is very helpful as well as the page on the Barran Temple in Marib. You can actually see the altars on Google Street view by zooming in on the location in Marib and dropping the man on the blue dots. Whether Joseph Smith saw the Nahom maps is impossible to know. Whether someone else wrote the Book of Mormon and they saw those maps is also unknown. The "Bountiful" claim in Yemen is far more dubious. This area is not lush and green with timber and ore as the LDS try and claim. The only resemblance is during the monsoon months when things green up a bit for a short time. There has never been enough timber to build a ship. If there were, someone would have done it by now. The region has never supported ship building. When Marco Polo visited near by at the straight of Hormuz, he remarked how poor the boats were. They were made of poor timber that was dry and cracked. The did not have ore for "nails". The boats were not sea worthy. They sank often and were only good for short fishing trips. The following s my opinion: Lehi's journey in the wilderness is clearly describing a journey back to the Garden of Eden. Bountiful is synonymous with Eden. Everything makes sense if you consider that Lehi first went to Egypt and then had the Tree of Life Vision. The Vision guided him South, up the Nile River to Ethiopia. Ethiopia is the "head" of the Nile, something mentioned in the dream. Ethiopia is also mentioned as a candidate for the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2:13. Ethiopia is also green and lush and fertile compared to the Sahara below. Nahom would be at modern day Khartoum where the Eastward turn happens. This is describing the convergence of the White and Blue Niles and Ethiopia is on the East Nile. Nahom itself is an Ethiopian word. Baby boys are named Nahom in Ethiopia to this day. The ship building and the ship journey is most likely out of sequence. I believe Lehi built a ship in Egypt and sailed for the Pharaoh. His journey was as circumnavigation of Africa.
I read through the comments and, of course, critics are entitled to their views. Unremarkably, they seem to predominate the section. As a researcher I would invite skeptics to laser focus on a theory rather than provide sidebar critiques. How did Joseph Smith accurately describe the relationship and local environments of two geographic locations in ancient Arabia? The points are the geographic area Nahom (NHM) located 1500 miles southeast from Jerusalem (8 years journey) and a lush coastal region called Bountiful directly east. Since no map available to Joseph Smith contained this information, the only answer seems to be that he guessed correctly. His 23-year-old imagination served him well. Do skeptics have any other theories?
You are asking for theories while you are the one said Joseph Smith introduced and practiced poligamy because there are lots of spirits in spirit world waiting to be born to this world. is that idea also coming from your research ? also here you are giving us geographical locations of the book of mormon to prove its authenticity but have you ever thought how in the world a man translate an ancient language by looking at a stone in a hat that he previously used for money digging? Have ever able find out from your research original copy of the text that Smith translated?
In view of 2 Corinthians 11:14, is it at all possible that foul spirits (demons) would have knowledge of the topography of the Middle East and other particulars stated as evidence in this video? A second thought, with young Joseph's involvement in the occult is it possible this could have opened a door that they could have used to work through this young man?
@@henochparks Interesting, your claim to possess knowledge of me that only God and Christ would have. You don't know me, yet you judge me as though you do. I asked questions. In your opinion, do I not have the right to do so here?
@@henochparks lol, I am in full agreement with you! I am not a victim (and never felt I am). I simply asked questions. Let each decide. Have a good day.
My brother was saved from a mortar round hitting his barracks in Afghanistan, my Father was saved from cancer, my home town was saved from a raging forest fire, not one home was damaged. My great great Grandfather came over the plains with Brigham young and was known for his hunting skills, he was one of those who retrieved food for Brigham young when he became ill. My ancestors have seen angels, I have seen angels. I think of these verses from Matthew below when I think of Brigham young announcing all those years ago in seemingly barren wasteland, “This is the place.” I have seen the fruits of their labor and they are many and of great magnitude. [Matthew 7: ] (KJV) 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I respect your belief. Do you have a copy of the book? Have you read it? Please take time to read Moroni chapter 10, especially verses 2-7. If you believe in God, it is our Heavenly Father that you should have asked in prayer to know if it is true. That is what I did. You can do it,too. Thank you for your reply. God bless you 🙏
Circular logic, selective text interpretation, and subjective geography. This is a classic example of a strawman fallacy. There are also locations along the northern Levant which also match the descriptions given in the Book of Mormon. Any locations near Jordan or Lebanon would have plenty of lumber and valley based orchards, and match the descriptions of elevation change as you have indicated as evidence for your claims. Also analysis of genetic markers in Native American populations indicates origins in Eastern Asia not western Asia.
I would have to agree with hunter in that the Book of Mormon doesn't mention anything about Native Americans originating from Lehi. There are so many other continents and land masses out there. That being said, do you think that God would only communicate with people living in Mesopotamia or do you think that he would want to communicate with all of his children, regardless of country? Even if you don't believe in the Book of Mormon I think it's safe to consider that there are probably other records of God's dealings with people that lived on entirely different continents. John 21:25 KJV reads: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
More like you are selective with the evidence. Khor Khorphot has 12 different correlations. When I asked chat gpt about the probability of these evidences it said 1 in 32 billion. I recognize it can have error, but just dismissing massive hits, like Nahom, which has been found by the way is rediculous. It is not selective reading. It is an example of someone who refuses to concede to the evidence.
Sure..if your blind. But... Look at utah...the Colorado river runs in a GREAT VALLEY (grand canyon) emptied into the red sea( Alabama"Crimson"tide). The land was RED. Gulf of Mexico is a new name. Bring on your criticism, but will you investigate? This IS the question.
Very nice video, but you seem very defensive about the authenticity I just wanted to know what the Book of Morman says about the geography of the travels of the characters in the book.
If you read the book of mormon with true intent of seeing its real, you'll know for certain. I'm LDS and I had a Seminary teacher (a religious class teacher) who told us about his father. His father went to different tribes all around america in the early 2000s and asked about their religious beliefs, then compared it to the BOM. Some of the tribes he told about the BOM and the stories lined fairly well. They even said they still have things so sacred to them given to their ancestors and passed on. In fact some tribes chose to join us and others said they will wait for god. I will ask him for the video if you want to see it
@@ryandahle541 cool I like enders game too but I didnt base the name of my channel on it I actually didnt see the movie or hear about it till about a year after I made my channel
Title is an Oxymormon.... 😅 If you visit Utah you can visit Zion Park and Bountiful city. Thus proving JosephsMyth true::. The Garden of Eden is in Missouri
lame. Did you ever watch the video? There has to be a stream that empties continuously into the red sea that is a three days journey from Jerusalem, which just happens to be there. yeah you are so right. Anyone would know that. lol.
@@kennethyoung7564 indians are not Jews. They never coined metals, had a system of weights, never rode chariots. The Book of Mormon is a fraud. So is The Abraham Papyrus. The Garden of Eden is not in Missouri. Captain Moroni is not real despite Cliven and Ammon Bundy's claims to represent/ symbolize him
"The course that Lehi and his company traveled from Jerusalem to the place of their destination: They traveled nearly a south, southeast direction until they came to the nineteenth degree of north latitude; then, nearly east to the Sea of Arabia, then sailed in a southeast direction, and landed on the continent of South America, in Chili, thirty degrees south latitude." Joseph Smith [Richards, F. D. & Little, J. A. 1882. Lehi’s Travels: Revelation to Joseph the Seer. Salt Lake City: Deseret News Co.]
My whole family is Mormon, so this is not an issue I take lightly. I used to be agnostic and have been skeptically studying the Bible and researching its claims. When I do the same to the Book of Mormon, I’m just not convinced at all. I’m trying to give Mormonism the benefit of the doubt, I only care about the truth. I live in Utah and love all my LDS friends and family. They are a great people, and Bible believing Christians should take some notes on their approach. But the bottom line is the church teaches a false gospel. The reality is that the archeological evidence that “supports” the Book of Mormon is speculative at best. They’ve been clinging to the few things that allegedly “prove” the Book of Mormon instead of looking at all the evidence that shows Smith is a false prophet. Sadly, he and has deceived many. External corroboration for the Bible stands apart by far, it’s not even close.... The Bible tells us to test the spirits. Not to believe every “feeling” you get from what you think is the Holy Spirit. “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 JOHN 4:1 NASB ““The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.” JEREMIAH 17:9-10 NASB The Bible and the Book of Mormon teach vastly different principles. I don’t see how one can hold both to the same degree, hey contradict each other on foundational levels. Joseph Smith is a blasphemer. He implies that Jesus is a liar, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret [that God never told you]... In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.” -Joseph Smith Kings Follet Sermon emphasis added Joseph Smith is clearly saying scripture is lying. He is claiming that he (Joseph Smith) is lifting he veil. Wouldn’t God be lifting the veil? Blasphemy. Moses & Aaron were punished severely for trying to take credit away from God when He provided water to the tribes of Judah in the wilderness. Joseph Smith is claiming to “lift the veil”. He doesn’t even try to give credit to God. To his credit, he shouldn’t, its a heretical & blasphemous statement to say the least. The Bible teaches that there is one true eternal God, found in one Being. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. The body of Christ has no organizational church, but we are only brought together by the love of Jesus Christ. “Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were born or You gave birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.” PSALMS 90:1-2 NASB “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.” HEBREWS 13:8-9 NASB “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.” MATTHEW 24:35 LUKE 21:33 MARK 13:31 NASB If you are a Mormon and follow Joseph Smith, you simply are not following the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. We need to stop trying to lump Biblical Christians and LDS together like the church is trying to do. It’s leading more people to deception. We need to read and study the real Scriptures daily and ditch the terrible teachings of Joseph Smith.
He's not saying that he will literally remove the veil, but rather that he is helping to expand the minds of those listening/reading as though the veil is being removed from their minds. The veil is a symbolic way of describing how memories of our pasts are temporarily blocked upon entering a mortal life. As one becomes more like God, such people are then entrusted with more knowledge and spiritual blessings. Joseph Smith as a prophet of God had the opportunity to see beyond the veil, just as past prophets had. He then shared his knowledge with those that would hear. Each of us can also come closer to God and learn more of his ways (as the scriptures call "mysteries") and can even see beyond the veil for ourselves. I also am a seeker of knowledge and truth and find no discord between the Bible's teachings and those in the Book of Mormon and Church of Jesus Christ leaders. I find that such words help expound upon the teachings found in the Bible and even give new insights into God and his dealings with others that have lived on the Earth. As it says in John 21:25, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
I do respect your opinion, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it's teachings saved me from a dark path. I feel peaceful in my life and have come closer to God than I ever would have thought possible. I have heard His voice, felt His love, and have received forgiveness for my sins. No work of the devil and his deception could do to me what HAS happened to me. It was of God, as is this Church.
These are just a few of the scriptures that I read when searching for a church. I've always believed that Christ and The Father (and the Holy Spirit) were one in unity and purpose, not the same person that talks to himself or splits himself up for various tasks. Mark 15:34 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Luke 2:52 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. John chap. 7 16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. John chap. 14 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John chap. 15 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me. John chap. 16 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not aknown the Father, nor me. 5 But now I ago my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? John chap. 17 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. John chap. 20 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
@@NeilYoungHorne With all due respect, I know the true and living God that is spoken of in the Bible. I have read the Bible dozens of times now and the Bible contradicts Mormonism every where I turn. Here are a few examples. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. - Article of Faith #3 Book of Mormon For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. - 2 Nephi 25:23 "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206). The Bible Eph. 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. *********** Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247). I John 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. ********** Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 92). The Bible Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, *********** There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188). The Bible Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." - John 14:6 *********** "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). The Bible Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. *********** There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Mormon Doctrine, p.670). The Bible And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name (Jesus) under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved. - Acts 4:12
@@kevinkiffe Jesus said your sins would not be forgiven if you did not believe He was God. John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.” 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” God is the first and the last. Isaiah 48:12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel [f]whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. The first and the last died and rose again. Revelation 1:17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. As a man, Jesus ate, thirsted, slept, wept, prayed to God and died. As God, Jesus rebuked Satan, forgave sin, performed miracles, accepted worship from the people, raised the dead and even raised himself from the dead. John 2:19 It is called the hypostatic union. JESUS IS GOD Matthew 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.” John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Even God called Jesus, God. Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.
Its true true mom said its true I know its true pray and find out if its true true true...Why is it that we don't look at the Bible like this? Why do I have to find out if the BOM is true? Who cares about this ridiculous book?
Now that they have found a house and small community about 20 miles south of Jerusalem called the house of Lehi. And the fact that the city of David or Jerusalem you can walk all the way around it in 45 minutes. I think he was pretty well sure that they were was at least some semblance of elevation to the city. Why in the world would you say something that dumb. That stands out really bad. It's also very indicative that Lehi was probably fairly wealthy. Just like most people who can pick up and move their families fairly quickly and completely
"Steel" need not imply a bow made purely of steel. Only a bow that was 'plated' exteriorly from steel. There are examples and references to other "steel bows" in ancient times. Case in point: It was possible to 'break' a steel bow since inside and out it wasn't made purely from steel...
The trip down the coast of the Red Sea is described in the travels of Marco polo, which was published in 1811. This video does nothing to vindicate the book of Mormon.
Interesting. And the travels of Marco Polo accurately describe places such as the River of Laman, the Valley of Lemuel, NHM, Bountiful and more, all with accurate descriptions of plant and animal life, ore, relative directions and distances from each other? Just as remarkable is the fact that a young school boy who could hardly read had access to all of these books and documents. Simply amazing.
@@whizwhitney The evidence is that Joseph Smith wasn't its author on any level. Word print studies have shown the Book of Mormon has multiple authors, and that Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding, Martin Harris and Sidney Rigdon were not among them.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. I know this is true. Anyone who REALLY wants to know the truth of the Book of Mormon will be drawn to it and find their answer, if they truly desire it.
If you can spend some time in here young barbara perhaps you see if Joseph was true, where would you like to start, type in the Angel Nephi appearing to Joseph , then he changed his mind to The Angel Moroni. then we will go on to the next thing, perhaps his marriage. , saving people from themselves seems to be the norm here, tasking them on to the real Saviour Jesus.
Hello Barbara, I had an honest and sincere question in relation to the Book of Mormon that I was wondering if you could help me with from your genuine perspective. The question is (and this is asked so that I may understand the mindset of the LDS members): If the Book of Mormon was created by prophets of God, and one, maybe two, of said prophets made a prophecy that was confirmed as being false according to historical evidence, what would it mean for the Book of Mormon's validity as a whole? This is asked not to insult but to understand what people of this religion believe in relation to the prophetic portion of the Book. I've done a little bit of research and have written about it in an archival sense, but what I DO NOT have is an actual member's personal thoughts on the matter.
Haha. Right. True prophet who, along with the early founders, all men, lied to their wives that the divine gave them instruction to lay or marry with other women. Haha, right. To which I'll add, one of my ancestors, Smith tried to lay with her, she was 14. My family were def. not trying to have that.
I love the Book of Mormon! I read it everyday. I also love the Bible. I know both speak of Christ. This is wonderful. Though this is interesting-the evidence of the book’s truthfulness has come to me through the power of the Holy Ghost as I’ve read and prayed about the book.
If the Bible is uncorrupted and the Old Testament and the New Testament do not contradict the Book of Mormon, what need do we have for the Book of Mormon? Since all that is necessary for salvation is found within the Bible?
We believe the Bible to be the word of God but also believe that precious truths have been lost to it through the centuries of translation, compilation, and retranslation. It does not contain all that is necessary for salvation, neither does the Book of Mormon. The fullness of God's restored Church has been revealed through scripture and modern day revelation. We are grateful that the heavens aren't closed and that God still speaks today for our benefit and learning.
To those who say that The Book of Mormon is rubbish, etc; I have personally received witness from Heavenly Father confirmation to my heart, mind, and soul, that this record is TRUE. Via Prayer
@@duosythe I know what you are really after: The Book of Abraham, and the Book of Moses, plus all of the Old Testament, the New Testament, the 15 Books that comprise The Book of Mormon, all of the Doctrine and Covenants are ALL TRUE. Again; all witnessed to my heart and mind, that these are indeed of God. I see His handwriting in all of these. Why don't you read with an open mind, make up your brain, and go ask Him? As James 1:5 invites you to. You may disagree with me on any point; I KNOW WHAT I KNOW as witnessed to me, via the power of the Holy Ghost.
@@utahbac9882 You have a closed mind. I invite you to open your mind, to further light and knowledge, that Heavenly Father wants to give you, IF you are willing to go and seek this. You choose
Very interesting and informative! Great video! Thank you! Just one comment for feedback. I found the repetitive background music to be distracting. Throughout the video, there was an emphasis on one note, which sounded like a car door was left open.
If you didn’t catch it...Lehi wasn’t wandering in the wilderness like it sounds...he allegedly was traveling down a well traveled highway complete with rest stops and towns for supplies. The Incense Road traveled by merchants with large caravans for more than a thousand years. Major use ended around 300ad, butThe pathways were so well beaten into the ground a research team used areal photography to map many parts of the road in still visible in 2006. Notice he leaves out the part of the journey where a few dozen people were able to build a transatlantic vessel from scratch. Think of the amount of lumber, iron, food, water, and ship building skills it would take to cross the Atlantic? A project of this proportion would be one of the greatest miracles in the Book of Mormon story! But it would take an army of ship builders to complete such a task even if they had the materials. No way this story happened.
I recommend that, before offering a critique, you read what Latter-day Saint scholars have already written about the feasibility of Lehi's party building a ship at Bountiful. Moreover, the fact that the text says the Lord directed their shipbuilding activities makes this a fairly weak line of attack. If one can't accept the possibility of miracles, that's fine. But it does little good to say there is no way they could have naturally done something when the text itself claims they had divine help.
@@ryandahle541 Sorry but this argument is absurd. The entire premise of this video is to show the plausibility of the journey. You can't just say "the Lord provided" for the implausible parts that the book describes. Did the Lord also erase all of the evidence that would show that the Book of Mormon is historical?
@@danhoen4129 In these debates, both sides usually agree that you can't assess a text's historicity by looking at the plausibility of its miraculous details. Instead, both parties look at the non-miraculous claims for decisive secular evidence, one way or another. I'm not saying that building the ship was a complete miracle. The text indicates it took man power. But locating the materials and constructing the ship were, according to the text, directed by the Lord. Moreover, we don't know how many people helped. We don't know what type of ship they were creating. And, contrary to your previous claim, we don't know how long it took them (the text doesn't say a year). Do you have any evidence that an unknown number of people couldn't have created a ship in an unknown manner in an unknown amount of time with divine guidance? Hopefully, you can see the problem with testing the text on this matter.
@@ryandahle541 _In these debates, both sides usually agree that you can't assess a text's historicity by looking at the plausibility of its miraculous details_ So as long as you claim miracles, then critics can't say it wasn't impossible. Got it. _we don't know how many people helped_ The text doesn't mention others outside the group or mention labor or trading with anyone outside the group _We don't know what type of ship they were creating_ We can actually surmise quite a bit from the text. We know that it had a mast and that they could steer the ship. So this means it had to have at least one mast, multiple sails and rigging and it probably was keeled and had some type of rudder. We also know that with all the provisions that were procured and loaded, the ship was most likely decked with several levels. The text mentions "going down into the ship, with all our loading". Just for the sails alone, it would have required a couple hundred sheep which are only shorn twice a year. Plus they would have had to build the tools to process the wool and stitch together the sails. Then to bend the keel, they would have had to build steam houses and the massive tools required to bend it. _And, contrary to your previous claim, we don't know how long it took them_ Again, you can surmise a general time frame. They purportedly arrive in 592 BC. In 591 BC Nephi is commanded to build the ship. And by about 590 BC they are on the sea. _Do you have any evidence that an unknown number of people couldn't have created a ship in an unknown manner in an unknown amount of time with divine guidance?_ Based on the clues given with the text, even with "divine guidance", it's highly implausible.
Ryan Dahle the video makes it sound miraculous that Lehi could make this journey in the wilderness all alone. He makes it sound miraculous that they could find water and food at “just the right spot”. Amazing! It’s a miracle! God is keeping them alive through an empty desert! Nope. They are traveling down a well know incense trade road complete with towns for food an supplies. It’s so well known it’s in the history books. It isn’t a miracle that Joseph could have had this information.
I believe that Lehi's journey in the wilderness was a SINAI journey, not Arabia although the prevailing theory is Arabia.But the prevailing theory for the Book of Mormon lands is Mesoamerica and the BofM events actually took place in the "Land of Liberty" the U.S.A.Go figure!
Why do you say "Sinai"? Have you found any evidences in Sinai? I believe Lehi went through Egypt into Ethiopia. I have found many reasons to believe this.
@@beefmaster4 There's very little on the internet about it. I think I read a BYU students paper on it but I have filled in a lot of the gaps that paper was missing. I'll try and find that paper. Here's some of the highlights. Lehi leaves Jerusalem and travels down to the Red Sea. He crosses over Pharaoh Necho II ancient Canal of the Pharaohs that connects the Nile River with the Red Sea. (This is controversial with many historians claiming Necho never completed the canal. I believe the Book of Mormon is evidence the canal was completed.) He travels South along the West side of the Red Sea avoiding Egypt proper in the Nile River Valley. He travels 3 days from the Red Sea to the Nile River using Wadi Hammamat. The Nile River is the only river within a 3 day journey from the Red Sea. Traveling along the Nile River, Lehi makes camp on an island on the river and builds an altar. Many Jews fleeing the Babylonian destruction would follow this immigration route and a Jewish Temple will eventually be built at this spot. The ruins of the temple can be seen today. Later this island will be given a Greek name, Elephantine. Jews living on the island will leave additional evidence of Lehi when a daughter is named after Sariah. This proves Sariah was a name for a female and provides evidence that Lehi and Sariah once lived on this island. Lehi claims the Nile River flows into the Red Sea but clarifies in the next verse that the river flows into the "Fountain" of the Red Sea. Lehi is talking about Pharaoh Necho's canal. The word "fountain" is Lehi's description of the canal. A fountain is similar to a canal in many ways. They both take a large volume of water, divert it into a small area and then discharge it into a larger area again. Lehi leaves Elephantine, traveling on the Nile River until the start of the Dongola Bend. At this point, travelers going upriver would leave the river and use a shortcut known as the Korosko Road (South-Southeast). This is a shorter route than keeping to the river and avoids the cataracts that make river travel impossible. The Korosko Road is an 8 day journey with a resting point at the Murat Wells (a mini oasis) in the middle. Lehi specifically describes the 4 day journey to the oasis. The next leg of the Journey is described as "many" days but we know they complete the shortcut and return to the Nile River because they use the phrase "same course". Another word for a river is "course". They then travel along the Nile River until they reach Nahom. After Nahom, they travel East. I believe Nahom is modern day Khartoum. When travelers on the Nile reach Khartoum, they would have a major decision to make. Should they travel the White Nile or the Blue Nile? Lehi travelled East meaning they chose the Blue Nile. Bountiful would be modern day Ethiopia. It is well established that Jews immigrated to Ethiopia around 600 BC. Ethiopia is a very temperate and fertile region that fits the description of fruit and honey. The "raw meat" is significant as well. Ethiopians have a history of eating raw meat. It is considered a delicacy to this day with many Ethiopian tribes still eating raw meat. What do you think? Is any of this interesting to you?
“It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere...” Prophet Russel M Nelson - 2016
@@KUR4H I LOVE how you demonstrate you're not familiar with basic logic: (1) Saying the B of M is not a "definitive" account of the agriculture or politics of an entire world hemisphere, is NOT the same as saying it is not an authentic record FROM a world hemisphere at all. (2) A record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, is NOT the same as saying a record of SOME former inhabitants of the Americas. Unfortunately for you, almost all the most definitive attacks on the Church actually rests on what Russel M. Nelson denied in this passage, so it makes sense that you have to deny logic, here, to cover up that failure. For example, the whole idea that ancient Americans are genetically Asian, and, therefore, couldn't be descendants of Book of Mormon peoples rests ENTIRELY on the extra-scriptural idea that ALL and ONLY Book of Mormon people are Native Americans.
@@towardcivicliteracy You realise it actually *DID* used to say that it *was* an account of the first native Americans…? Did you know that in 2006 there was a change made to the Book of Mormon intro? Pre 2006 BoM Edition “…except the Lamanites, and they are *the principle ancestors of the American Indians* “ Current BoM edition “…and they are *AMONG* the ancestors of the American Indians” This is a pretty big shift in the Book of Mormon don’t u think?
Can middle earth be corroborated with actual locations on this planet? If so, did Tolkien have access to the materials he would have used to formulate Middle Earth? If you watched the whole video and understood what was being portrayed, the references in the Book of Mormon are actual places with specific attributes that Joseph Smith could have known nothing about. It's only been recently that the items in the Book of Mormon have been compared to these specific trading routes and locations where we see value in the comparison. These would be considered evidence that these specifics in the Book of Mormon are accurate to reality. Middle Earth has no basis in reality and can thusly be described with unabashed creativity.
@@jmhatutube Naming places that exist and where known to exist is not evidence for authenticity. If you think it is, you'll believe anything, like a book that claims central American populations are descendants of Jews.
@@jmhatutube Actually, yes, Middle Earth can be corroborated with actual locations on this planet. That was the intent of the author, after all. It even uses some of its own language, an unknown language Tolkein had to translate for us! (Well, he created it.) The difference is, Tolkein was just more intelligent than Smith, and his intent of creating a fictional story is well documented. Joseph's intents (based on his actions) were less... savory.
A real question, where did the Nephites and Laminates live? For 169 years, your church has not come up with a definitive answer. Don't understand why? If you have a prophet, why doesn't he ask God to tell him? This is a real big problem with Mormonism. Give us archaeological evidence to validate where they live. It's in your corner.
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that a primary purpose of this life is to live by faith. Overwhelming empirical evidence of Nephites and Lamanites in the Americas would provide overwhelming evidence that Joseph Smith had, at the very least, an authentic ancient record in his possession and a miraculous ability to read it. That in turn would provide extraordinary evidence of his prophetic calling. My opinion is that God never intended for that type of evidence to come forth, just as he never intended there to be empirical, incontrovertible evidence of the resurrection. I mean, if Jesus truly rose from the dead, why doesn't he just appear on CNN and get it over with. Why all the hassle of making everyone endlessly debate his existence and weigh the evidence from ancient texts, of which there are not even any original manuscripts for examination. My personal opinion, after having studies a vast amount of research on these topics, is that there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to accept that the Book of Mormon might be authentic. There is therefore good reason to make the question of its authenticity a matter of diligent prayer and spiritual testing. The evidence I speak of comes from diverse fields of research, such as archaeology, linguistics, literary studies, various fields of science, and so on, often from scholars and experts with relevant secular education. Any proposed anachronisms need to be viewed in light of this comprehensive research. It should also be understood that mere absences of evidence are of limited probative value when evaluating ancient data sets.
@@ryandahle541 There is overwhelming evidence for the resurrection of Christ. You should read, Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus, by Nabeel Qureshi. Those who seek, find.
DAVE BARTOSIEWICZ. YOU ARE SICK. THE BIBLE NAMES MANY PLACES AND CIVILIZATIONS THAT CANNOT BE FOUND. EXAMPLE. WHERE IS THE LAND OF TARSHISH. SCHOLARS HAVE LOOKED FOR IT FOR CENTURIES. IS THE BIBLE A FRAUD? GROW UP.
@@henochparks Haaha that's a pretty open question "is the Bible a fraud?" Well I would say that probably a lot of things in the Bible are no different than the Greek or Roman legends.
Slight correction: They have come up with a definitive answer. Or at least they did at one point, and decided to keep changing till today there is no longer a definitive answer, so it is even more of a problem than never having narrowed it down when Joseph Smith and the early prophets did give a definitive answer.
Ed, truly all this begs a real question about archaeological reality: like where is just one sample of the so called Joseph Smith "Nephite language" found anywhere? Surely if the claim is that there was such a BoM civilization and existed for over 1000 years, then where is just a single example of their language? Or do you have any idea what this supposed golden plate "language" even looks like? I mean you cannot very well be claiming to be translating a NON EXISTING language with merely placing your face in your hat, while looking at a round robin egg shaped mud rock, something that J Smith borrowed from Willard Chase, back in 1822, and again in 1827. Something smells really fishy here, wouldn't you agree? I mean about the face in the hat and money digging with a magic rock thing....something that Smith himself claimed that he could "SEE" none existing pirate money treasures and silver mines, and other underground objects for years during his youth -- prior to his book making saga using the same deceptive techniques.
@@Rypaul5217 Well, I can tell you have a good testimony about your beliefs. This is my belief on things. First off, it's important to understand spiritual truths should not be based strictly on physical evidence. If this were the case, the Holy Bible would fall almost as short as the Book of Mormon. Critics frequently hold the Book of Mormon to a higher standard of proof than the Holy Bible. There are many things that lack historical evidence which many Christians apparently don't take the time to consider. There's no historical proof of Moses or the Exodus. No evidence for early Israelites in Egypt. -Jericho and Ai (Josh 8) were both ancient ruins at the time of the conquest of Canaan, according to archaeologists. Jericho's walls were destroyed centuries before Joshua. -Defeat of Sennacherib did not happen at Jerusalem, but at Pelusium, near Egypt, and Jews were not involved, contrary to 2 Kings 19. -Daniel's account of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar is historically inaccurate; Nebuchadnezzar was never mad. Belshazzar, whom he says was king, was never king, but only regent. Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar, but of Nabo-nidus. Babylon was not conquered by Darius the Mede, but by Cyrus the Great, in 539 BC (Dan 5:31). Darius the Mede is unknown to history. -Chronology of the empires of the Medes and Persians is historically incorrect in Isa 13:17, 21:2, Jer 51:11, 28 -Esther (and all the characters in the Book of Esther except Ahasuerus [= Xerxes]) is unknown to history, even though it claims that its events are "written in the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia" (Est. 10:2). The Book of Esther is not quoted by any pre-Christian writer, nor mentioned in NT, nor quoted by early Christian fathers. -Mordecai became prime minister to Xerxes (Ahasuerus), who reigned 485-465 BC. But Mordecai had come to Babylon in 596 BC with Jehoiachin (Esther 2:5-6). -Jesus as a historical figure is not mentioned by any contemporary non-Christian writers. -Matt 2:1 says Jesus was born in the reign of Herod, who died 4 BC. Luke 2:2 says he was born during Quirinus' governorship of Syria, which began 6 AD. -There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the slaughter of the innocents by Herod (Matt 2:16-18). Josephus, whose history contains much criticism of Herod, does not mention it. -There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the graves opening and the dead appearing to many at the crucifixion (Matt 27:52-53). -the Euphrates is reported in Genesis before and after the flood, apparently unaffected by the massive destruction. Given these considerations about the Holy Bible and the large number of contradictions present in the text, it is easier to not believe in it rather than to believe it is true. So if questions of archaeology need to be asked about the Book of Mormon, these must be honestly asked of the Holy Bible. Now back to the Book of Mormon in answering your questions...the historical proof is on the plates of the Book of Mormon. We don't know what the language looks like because the plates were returned to the angel Moroni. The reason there aren't any other examples that have been found of the "Nephite language" is because the plates weren't large enough to write regular Hebrew on them; and the language had become forgotten a few times through war and wickedness; Mormon 9:33-34, 3 Nephi 5:18, 1 Nephi 1:2-3, Omni 1:17, Mosiah 1:3-5. There are examples of the language needing to be retaught - Mosiah 9:1, Mosiah 24:4. As far as Joseph Smith translating with the use of a seer stone and a hat, Joseph translated by the gift and power of God. I suspect you haven't read in-depth about the whole process of translation which is miraculous in and of itself: Joseph having a 3rd grade education at the time of the translation whose wife knew he could not dictate a well-worded letter, 531 pages translated over 65 days, Have you ever tried to write a book? this is impossible, every time he resumed translation, he never said, "Now where did we leave off?", he just resumed adding words to the translation during the entire 65 days. The amount of detailed names, places, analogies, information in the Book of Mormon is staggering, yet people simply refuse to acknowledge it. There were no deceptive techniques in translating the Book of Mormon, critics fail to recognize all the witnesses present during the translation.
Great job on the video! I still think it's crazy people refuse to read the book for themselves and instead resort to trying to find faults with it or those that were involved in the translation. Love this book, love the whole Bible, and love the continuing revelation that Christ bestows upon all of his followers who are of an open heart and a willing mind.
Neil Horne I have read it, and it’s not true. Notice they say plausible but n everything they claim here, and use very generic terms and imply specifics. NHM could be anything including Niham since the group there is still called NiHM. 100% supposition. Like the history channel show about aliens they give this much evidence aliens are real, do you believe them?
Why does he talk about miracles for 4 minutes before bringing up the fact that Lehi is just following a well know Incense Road? Answer...because it isn’t miraculous at all when Lehi is following a well traveled trade route. Merchants traveled the road for over a thousand years and there would have been many record of how to make the journey available. Information on this route would have been know to bible scholars because of the connection to the 3 wisemen bringing frankensense and Myrr on the same path.
Does the video ever say that it was miraculous that Lehi's family traveled this route or that Joseph Smith couldn't have known about this route's existence? These are straw man arguments.
Joseph didn't even know Jerusalem had walls. He had the equivalent of a 3rd grade education and was a simple farm boy living in a remote area of the US (at that time). Yet a handful of people continue to insist that he had access to documents and maps that were limited to a few scholarly circles, while being an expert in ancient Middle-Eastern geography. Simply amazing!
Don Layton there is an ever growing collection of evidence that Jospeh has fabricated his writings. The detailed reports of his deception about polygamy to Emma, the church, and newspapers. We know he had a multiple arrests and a conviction in New York for Fraudulently claiming he could use a seer stone to find treasure in his money digging scam. We know he twice falsely claimed the power to translate Egyptian when he produced the book of Abraham and the “ancient language” of kinderhook plates. We know he falsely claimed receiving revelation to translate the Bible but now BYU research tells us he unquestionably plagiarized the Adam Clark Commentary. All of this evidence points to Joseph’s history of fraud and inability to translate...which leaves us with the question...how could he have put these details into the Book of Mormon? all Joseph needed to put the story of Lehis journey down the Incense Road was a decent description of the route. How likely is that information to exist? The Incense Road was a major travel route for hundreds of years. This is likely the same route traveled by the 3 wisemen that brought Jesus frankincense and myrrh. The Incense Road connected Egypt, Israel, Rome, and Arabia during most of the time period covered by the Bible. It connected the economies and provides Incense for religious ceremonies of the major countries of Bible times. The information about this route would have been very common knowledge and someone studying religion or history would likely find it.
@@matthewfullmer3739 I'm not going to debate you. I've looked at everything you posted and much more. I've also looked at the pro-LDS side. There is so much to counter your claims. In my opinion, the overwhelming amount of evidence supports my faith. For you and others, exactly the opposite is true. Less than 20 years ago, two Evangelical scholars did the same thing. They looked at the evidence, both for and against. Their conclusion? Evangelicals are losing the battle and don't even know it. I suggest you read something not written with destroying the church as its primary motive.
William Henley there is ample evidence to disprove the validation of the BoM. It’s not a matter of “if”, but “when” the leaders at the top of this cult come out to denounce this faith. And this faith is destined to be denounced because it is dead.
Craig Johnson Oh really? In my years of study I’ve not come across any of this. Please respond and let me know as well as citing your sources. As for the second part of your response, that’s a common logical fallacy used by critics to try and sway people’s emotions. That isn’t going to happen. Watch Bruce R McConkie’s last testimony. He was close to death at this point and yet still stated with absolute surety that he believes in what he has taught. In fact think of all the Prophets that have done this close to their death. Your theory is untenable. I know the human mind loves conspiracy theories but all these men are honest and believe what they teach.
@@richardholmes7199 You are starting from the wrong point when it comes to burden of proof. There is no need to prove the BoM as fraudulent, because it has never been proven to be what it claims to be. It must first be established as what it claims to be, an accurate historical record (which it is failing at, miserably), and another testament of Jesus Christ (a faith claim, that requires belief in the miraculous and remains somewhat untestable due to the nature of miracles, but can be boiled down to special pleading.) Those two things are not widely established, or accepted. The first, especially, is refuted by the actual testable evidence available. So, no need to prove a non established work as fraudulent. It just hasn't ever been established as anything more than fiction or fantasy.
To all the haters and anti-mormons : "Some people will find fault no matter what you do. You have to accept the fact that not everyone is going to accept you. Not everyone is going to like you or understand you. If you’re going to reach your highest potential, you have to be okay with not being accepted by everyone. If you want everybody to like you, then you’ll get stuck." -Joel Osteen-
This quote could also apply to flat-earthers. To all those offended by "haters and anti-Mormons": "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." - Brigham Young
it's just that there is truth, and then there is fantasy that Mormons, flat-earthers, Reptialian believers, moon-landings were faked, chemtrail believers, 9/11 was faked/inside job believers, TWA 800 was shot down by the Navy, Jeffrey Epstein was killed by the Clintons, Sandy Hook was a false etc etc. Just because YOU believe something doesn't make it true. Truth is that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality. How about joining us in a little reality? There is no lost tribe of Israel in North America, there is NO evidence that has withstood scientific scrutiny. The Mormon evidence has been disproved every time new claims have been invented.
Well done video. This evidence, coupled with prayer and confirmation from the Holy Ghost, will point honest, truth seeking people back home to live with Father in Heaven (which is exactly what He wants for every single one of us). Beware of people who fail to include prayer and the Holy Ghost, as they will continue to be negative toward simple truths (see Stealth Mode and others, below)..."never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth" (2 Timothy 3:7 warning, presenting itself clearly in our day). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is alive and well, preparing for the triumphal return of the Savior to this earth!
@Doug Schooley... I want to thank you for your comment!! Through my prayers, I had received a confirmation from the Holy Ghost that The Book of Mormon is true & the word of God, which ultimately led to my joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!! After I found this video & watched it this morning, I kind of scrolled through comments, as I often tend to do... I feel disappointment & sadness when I see or hear comments (such as those made by Stealth Mode & also some others beneath this post) against the Lord's church!! However, even more than that, I find myself feeling sorrow, combined with compassion for those whose hearts are so hardened that they refuse to refuse to listen to the Holy Ghost, who testifies of all of God's full & complete truths!! Have a good day!!
So you have missed a lot of information as usual. And this story was already written before the book of mormon. View of the hebrews. And steel handnt been invented yet. They left around 580bc steel showed up about 200bc. And a steel bow would be usless.
Good point Kirk, but there are several references to steel bows in the Bible as well: 2 Samuel 22:35; Job 20:24; Psalm 18:34. At that time steel could meant any hard metal. It could also likely refer to a wooden weapon that had metal trim or reinforcements. Similarly see Joshua 17:16-18; Judges 1:19; 4:3 for "chariots of iron" which obviously weren't made completely of iron.
@@TimMellor just checking your references there. Samuel talks of bronze not steal. Job, again bronze tipped arrows, psalm again "bronze". Please read your bible "steal" was NOT invented. And book of mormon is clear it was a steal bow. Oh but i say something different to what it reads, that's what it really means, Holy crap.... I was kicked out of sunday class a few weeks ago for correcting the teacher. This is the issue. Can I also point out that Joseph Smith said the earth is only 6000yrs old. If you do not believe this, how can you trust the rest of his teachings?
@@kirkprior4367 - I see that we are looking at different editions of the Bible as well. I based my comments off the King James version first published in 1611. Unfortunately language isn't precise and it changes over time, and translating between languages complicates it further - hence the need for so many versions of the Bible. I don't know what the bow was actually made of and it isn't really important to me. Side note, according to Wikipedia steel has been found in Europe dating back to 1800 BC. The reason I read and believe in the Book of Mormon is because I am a better person and have a better relationship with my Savior because of the concepts & principles it teaches. I'm not trying to convert you or anyone else or prove the book is true (an impossible task), I just wanted to add my opinion to a possible explanation to your comment. Thanks for taking the time to discuss. Happy new year!
Not that long ago everyone was crying foul with the mention of domesticated barley in the BoM. Then in the 1980s it was discovered to exist in pre-Columbian America. You don’t hear that criticism any more. The trend of disproved anachronisms has been in the favor of the BoM for a long time. Patience will pay off.
It’s essential to read and understand what Joseph Smith personally said and wrote about Book of Mormon lands as he's the only prophet who translated the Book of Mormon records, repeatedly described the peoples, animals and lands of the Book of Mormon "as if he had lived there, his entire life," as his mother said. Here are the only facts we have of Book of Mormon geography: D&C 28:8 "And now, behold, I say unto you that you [Oliver Cowdery] should go unto the Lamanites and preach my gospel unto them..." D&C 28:9 "...Behold, I say unto you that it shall be on the borders by the Lamanites." -Revelation given from Jesus Christ to the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1830 2- D&C 30:6 "...for I have given unto him power to build up my church among the Lamanites." Revelation given from Jesus Christ to the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1830 3- D&C 32:2 "And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall go with my servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites." -Revelation given from Jesus Christ to the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1830 4- "The Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western tribes of Indians... by it we learn that our western tribes of Indians are descendants from that Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and that the land of America is a promised land unto them. Personally written and signed by, Joseph Smith Jun., 1833 Letter written by way of commandment from God to the Rochester Observer. 5- "The whole of our journey, in the midst of so large a company of social honest and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls and bones, as proof of its divine authenticity, and gazing upon a country the fertility, the splendor and goodness so indescribable, all serve to pass away time unnoticed. Personally written and signed by the hand of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1834 Joseph Smith personally received revelation from God to send missionaries, one being the transcriber of the Book of Mormon plates, to THE Lamanites, even to the border of the Lamanites, in Missouri. Missionaries were immediately sent to: NY, OH, IN, IL and MO, as commanded by Jesus Christ, testifying that the Book of Mormon is a record of their ancestors and established the church there. Joseph Smith never sent a single missionary to: Mexico, Central or South America, nor did any Latter-day Saint prophet in over 75 years after the church's founding. Joseph personally met with and testified of the Book of Mormon to the: Fox and Sac Algonquin tribes of the Great Lakes, up until a week before his death, whom he and U.S. national leaders described as Western tribes of Indians, as they were forced from their lands in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Michigan, to Iowa and westward. The Lord knows where the Lamanites lived, Joseph Smith knew where they lived as he personally met with them and testified to them. Besides Jerusalem and the Arabian Peninsula, the plains of: Ohio, Indiana and Illinois, locations where the Nephites lived, the ancient Nephite city of Manti, Zelph’s mound, Adam’s alter that Nephites used and the Hill Cumorah, where Joseph Smith personally testified of each location, we have no knowledge of exact locations of the Book of Mormon, nor do we need to know their exact locations but we do know exactly where Book of Mormon lands are, as revealed by the Lord: Missouri to Western New York. Any other theory is pure speculation and opinion that runs counter to revelation from Jesus Christ and should be discarded and ignored, along with all other opinions and speculation.
This video seems to have touched a nerve. I'm seeing quite a bit of irrational anger and hate in the comments below. Evidence for the Book of Mormon is growing which is evidently a tough pill for some people to swallow.
Evidence isn’t growing. You must be joking. It’s all made up a book of Mormon, pearl of great price, book of Abraham, American Indians were the lost tribe of Israel, Jesus came to America and his second coming will be independence Missouri Lamanites, Nephites all made up
What hate? It didn't touch a nerve. You are really projecting here. Something being refuted, contradicted, or rejected isn't irrational anger or hate. It's simply a refutation, or asking for more. And if this is your idea of growing evidence, then I have a lovely bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you...
strjfs .. no not hate ...just intellectual common sense. The simple truth is Joe Smith merely wrote (or should I say "spoke") out a story book novel, with claiming to have translated his book with a language that doesn't even exist. (is not surprising) Any idea what Smith's so called language even looks like? I am willing to respectfully wait for your reply: just one google picture perhaps this question is not about hate of any kind, just a simple question asking where the heck is an example of the proposed language that Smith claimed he translated? anything come to mind?
I could make this video with a map of Canada instead of Israel. When distances don't matter, and all I need to find is beehives, I can extrapolate whatever conclusion I want.
The protagonist's alleged bow could not have been made of steel, as that material had not bee invented yet. As for claiming that the arid climate might have contributed to its failure? Sure, only if one knows nothing about metallurgy. Facepalm!
Sam Smoot oh you cannot be serious! The reality is there is not one location found or any one archaeological finding to be in connection to Joseph Smith's story book novel, but more importantly, there not even any evidence or a sample of the proposed BoM language seen anywhere. Which in my mind is a huge hole in this whole affair. Surely if the claim is that there was a 1000 year old civilization, we should at least see something of their language somewhere. how is it that there is not even a single symbol or letter, or line of the Nephite alphabet or language? And really what does the alleged Nephite language look like, any idea?
@@Rypaul5217 Its hard enough for archaeologists to decipher ancient languages as it is, not to mention one from a persecuted minority such as the Nephites in ancient Arabia and the Americas (Hamblin citing Joyce Marcus, Mesoamerican Writing Systems (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1992), 212-220). If you want some physical proof, keep in mind the mention of barley in the Book of Mormon. For a long time, religious scholars and critics pointed out that barley came to the American continent with early European settlers, until they found traces of pre-Columbian new world barley. There is 100% archaeological proof, and it dates back thousands of years to simple things that might not be otherwise realized. The Nephites learned cement worked in the new world, as mentioned in the BoM, and just in the past 75 years has there been found evidence of skillful cement work in mesoamerica. Employing the word “cement” was cited as anachronistic proof of the Book of Mormon’s fabrication until recently, as more archaeological proof has been piling up. Even though there is a lot to go off of when looking for physical proof of the BoM (you just have to do some basic research before you take to writing angry comments), people will always find ways to discredit proof unless you have a spiritual testimony as well as supplements from a physical one.
@@scoobertdoovan--- yes yes, we all know that Asians did understand how to make and use what is called "ancient cement", no biggy...even in ancient China they made and built with what is called Chinese cement, ie is clay mixed in with a bit of lime and some sand, put in a form, then kiln for a few hours in a blow furnace. Ancient cement was common place. and therefore is nothing new to ancient antiquity. iows finding a brick in the dirt says nothing about how it is a Nephite made brick...could be any one's brick, or something made by "American Asians" who might have migrated into the American continent years ago either by the pacific Polynesian oceanic crossings, or through the Bering strait pathway through the North from Siberia. as the DNA and linguistic evidence suggests. The truth is should there be a claim about any history, at any time, there has to be physical "evidence" in order to support such a claim ...iows before we can define history, there should be more than a number of comparisons to make, (where one grain of sand a beach does not make) ..for example, we know something about the history of the Hittites from thousands of clay tablets they have made viz a extinct LANGUAGE of the past, now translated, known not just from ancient ruins, but specific hand written documents about that culture from that time period and location. Needless to say language = something visible..so without a language you can't say where a cement brick came from or made by whom...much less a clay pot, or a copper spoon...iows. a cement brick is just a plain object made of sand, lime and clay, and means nothing by itself. however with writing it would be more telling that such a civilization did in fact exist and to whom it is designated for whom. wars and battles and trade routes and so on, for example the Qing Dynasty could not be historically and culturally said about without a written language. ok so can you show us an example what Joseph Smith's "Nephite language" suppose to look like? (post it here if you have any idea what it was,..) Smith was the one who claimed to have translated this supposed language, so there should be at least one example of it somewhere, after all this was suppose to be a 1000 year old civilization, making lots of books and schools, else where on earth is this language, may I ask?
@@scoobertdoovan and if you seeking to infer to an alter with three letters NHM from Arabia? NHM was figured to be the name of a pagan god for that alter, the three letters was not a reference to a place, and hardly should you be able to infer just three letters, be in connection to Smith BoM because in reality three letters could mean anything. (and this is a rather ambiguous argument, if not that of the definist fallacy, or even the fallacy of association) But however, if we look at this word simply, it seems to me, (as this seems more likely the event when making such a comparison) that there could be an explanation for the word Nahom found in the BoM, is that Nahum is one of the books of the Bible, and that Joseph Smith may have simply remembered the name by close pronunciation of it, and incorporated it into the text while dictating to one of his scribes openly. whom upon hearing the name merely spelled what was heard as Nahum or Nahom from the mouth of Joseph Smith jr.
Um did you miss the geographic details in the text? Like the fact that Bountiful has 12 different correlations, that only match Khor khorphot or however you say it. Like literally you just took extensive evidence and just reduced it by ignoring 99 percent of the evidences. lol. Good job. NOT.
According to second nephi 25:23 “it is by grace we are saved after all we can do.” Following this verse to its logical conclusion would mean we all burn in Hell for eternity because no one alive has done “all they can do” to merit salvation. The Book of Mormon stand in stark contrast to the Bible in Romans 10:9. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
That verse wont work with an educated LDS Member. Nephi lived in Old Testament times and the entire chapter discusses that they must live the Law of Moses for now however, when Christ comes, salvation will come by grace. Your point is valid though because LDS do not believe in grace for salvation per se. LDS have a work-around claiming that everyone is saved no matter what and the works they do are for "exaltation". Exaltation is very different than Salvation in their minds. Their version of Hell is actually the third kingdom of heaven. Exaltation is what elevates you to the higher kingdoms.
That’s not the interpretation the church takes, and you would know this if you weren’t disingenuously picking talking points instead of engaging with the doctrine
We don’t do our works to get exaltation, our works are evidence of the faith that has changed out hearts. “Faith without works is dead” there I can quote your scriptures out of context at you as well.
@@benjaminvandenberghe9726 Wrong. You are required to agree to certain works in the temple. These works are tied to specific blessings if accomplished and curses if you fail to do the works properly. What you said about simply doing works as evidence of your faith is misleading and disingenuous especially because the temple is a secret ritual not intended for the general public to know or understand. Your comment is false. The works you agree to in the temple are required for your exaltation.
"The only stream that continually streams towards the red sea throughout the year", 2:26 Shows a picture of a the wadi tayyiba dried out 2:04. Even the simplest research shows that this video has been made up of lies and selective text interpretation. The Wadi tayyibah is a seasonal water course. Even the most basic research finds that. If you are this selective with the pieces of information you take from the book of mormon and combine that with deceptive geographical evidence which gives a deceiving image of the landscape of the Arabian peninsula it is really easy to make a few informed guesses seem like a miracle.
I testify, along with millions of other people, that the Book of Mormon is ancient scriptures fund only by revelation to a boy named Joseph Smith- who became another prophet of God, who, once again, organized Jesus's church with prophets and apostles, and now has the authority of God to minister ordinances such as baptism. I love all Christian believers and look forward to the day we can all join together in common belief such as-that Jesus is our Savior. We must all repent, be baptized, and endure to the end in the Lord. God bless all Christians everywhere! By their fruits ye shall know them... and I see many great things happening in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and in other Christian churches. Keep up all the great service to those in need! Together we can make a difference..if we put aside our differences.
The Mormons are nothing but liars and a Cult, They have absolutely nothing to do with the Nation of Israel or the Jesus of the bible, You Mormons can't Read nowhere in the bible about Joseph Smith restoring the church or about the book of( Garbage) I mean Mormon it's not the church Jesus started is the bible in fact the Mormons are not a church at all
@@jameswines6752 Has a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wronged you? I sincerely hope not. A sincere study of the Book of Mormon may help with your lack of insight and knowledge. I believe in our Savior, Jesus Christ. He is the same one I learn about in the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
Actually Nahum and the like weren't discovered until after Joseph Smith was already dead so somehow Smith knew about several of these locations before modern scholars.
And then they sailed from Arabia to the Americas around the Cape using steel implements and speaking Reformed Egyptian and practising polygamy all in the anticipation of becoming gods themselves: makes perfect sense.
Joseph of Egypt did use the Egyptian script, and as they left that place it would be reasonable for the script to change to adapt to their Jewish language and their practices. The people of this book are descendants of the same Joseph. Where in the book of Mormon does it promote polygamy? If anything Abraham had multiple spouses, and only because God commanded it. In any case, are we not all children of God? To become perfect and become like him is a commandment, and Jesus Christ is our leader and example. It's not that outrageous if you think about it, the same faith that you have that led you to believe whole heartedly in the truthfulness of the Bible, is the same faith that we have to believe that the Book of Mormon is also the world of God.
That right there should be your own evidence, the BoM doesn’t speak of many doctrines later introduced and continuously changed/edited. God never commanded Abraham to have multiple wives nor he did. Please research better those comments. Agar was Not his wife and he married Cetura after Sara’s death. Clear like water to me, I hope that helps! Thanks and GB!
So I see you ignored all the evidence in the video like everyone else, on this thread that have no arguments. And all maps of Nahom weren't available to Joseph Smith in his lifetime. And it was discovered by archaelogists in 1996. So your response is a total fail, you use incredulity and mockery, because you can't confront the arguments head on.
The Book of Mormon is not a fair book to based the LDS church off of. You must read all their books and teachings then you can judge if it is true. And it is not. Read the book of Galatians and Romans
Great Point there, I appreciate how much you read and value the Bible. Unfortunately, take this example to apply to your comment, teachings and interpretations contradict each other. Daniel describes in Chapter 7, Jesus receiving dominion and authority from the Ancient of Days. Based on the Bible itself, God Almighty gives His son he mentioned. When the new revelation comes, all of the sudden, Adam is the one giving Authority and Dominion to Jesus. Either Adam have some unknown power in the Bible, or your new revelations are Not from God Almighty! That is my personal opinion, maybe I am wrong. Thanks for sharing and GB!
You realize that the idea of eternal hell was not mainstream until the fifth century AD right, and early christians believed in three degrees of glory. Sola scriptura is not biblical.
So ambiguous, and no evidence at all, and not even in the direction to america, like the common way was the same as jonah, to Spain, called Tarsis at the time.
Did you know that aztalan . Mazatlan, atlan are Ancient Greek names in Mexico? Trying to say atlantis, did you know these ‘’ handbags of the gods’’ are in every ancient culture, Egypt, assisted, Inca, Mayan, Aztec, gobekli tepi 6000bc , it’s just labans was special cause they was brass. It takes tremendous effort to be in denial.
HaveGotToGitGud I got to thinking....,can you imagine putting you face in a hat for hours and breathing residue Mercury ( that’s what they used to make hats) you’d become crazy and have hallucinations.
@@marilynclawson YOU MUST THE CRAZY ONE. MERCURY IS TOTALLY WASHED OUT BEFORE THAT HAT IS SHAPED OR THE MILLIONS OF OWNERS WOULD NOT HALLUCINATE BUT HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE. OWNERS WHO WORE THE HATS FOR DECADES DID NOT SHOW ANY DAMAGE....PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN.
Because they knew where you that all of us were that’s why they went inside African only we were slaved so if you want to talk, you have to know which people even the Arab like today. They have different names because the other took them they called them before Morse in Spain or everywhere, the history bro please I am a nice guy you want to learn the role is very deep it’s not what we learn in school so I have to go deeper for somebody don’t want you to know the truth. Sorry.
@@towardcivicliteracy The flow of reasoning goes from evidence to conclusion, not the other other way around. The problem here is starting with a conclusion (the BoM is true) and then finding evidence to support it. The proper way to support the BoM is to find evidence of Hebrew and/or Egyptian settlements (cities, coins, writing, etc) in the Americas, sites of huge ancient battles, DNA, horse/honeybee/cattle/elephant/wheat/silkworm remains dating to those times, and the other BoM anachronisms, all without better explanation. The BoM makes specific claims and those claims are either not supported by evidence or there are equal/better explanations for that evidence. I'm not opposed to it being true but that conclusion must be determined methodically.
@@MichaelSmith-fq3pg That would be the case on a traditional scientific method. However, this religion considers all those as auxiliary evidence, as the primary evidence comes from God through a prayer of faith. For us these evidence are meant to reinforce what we already know to be true. Although they do serve to add veracity to the book for those who are outside the church.
@@lamp5256 Then the best that can honestly said about the BoM is "I want it to be true" or "I believe it's true" but saying "I know it's true" is optimistic folly.
@@MichaelSmith-fq3pg That indeed would be the case if we based our beliefs toward this book on Archeology, which is precisely why we seek an answer from the divine, after all, archeology has been disproven with archeology over and over. And that would be very simmilar to building on loose soil.
@@lamp5256 “It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere...” Prophet Russel M Nelson - 2016
Here's my argument against this evidence: Nobody would've managed to do such a journey just with his family and friends back in around 600BC. Especcialy the walk from Shazer to the camp of the broken bow must've been impossible to manage in an adequat time back then.
@@dershogun6396 Well, as mentioned, there is an existing route that many bedouins have traversed in the last 2000 years. While we don't know who traveled first, Lehi's journey is completely reasonable if difficult.
@@brettmajeske3525 No it is not. Our earth is so big that you can essentialy invent any given geographical description and find a place on earth where all the requirements fit.
It's actually much more similar to the history of Judaism and Christianity, but sure, there are parallels to Islam as well. God raises up a prophet to teach the people. New scripture is revealed. False, sectarian notions are corrected. Revelation and miracles take place. God sends many witnesses to testify of the truth. God's people are persecuted and even killed for their beliefs. The correlations are many.
@@TheRealDonLayton Smith shot people up, stole men’s wives, made a wrong-era language translation of a book that has no archaeological evidence to support it whatsoever, taught radical doctrines never heard of before in theology, and the list goes on. It seems that the reason Mormonism grew is because he was the type of man who had an answer for everything, and was better than most at keeping track of his lies. Unfortunately for Mormonism, Smith couldn’t keep track of all of his lies, and eventually they caught up with him and an angry mob exterminated him. It is only Smith’s successors who continued to elevate him to a higher status, because they also saw the benefits of Mormonism, which was being able to justify the feeding of their similar lack of self-control. (endless sex in the after life) Joseph Smith was an atheist because he took notice to the trusting naivety of his contemporary fellow man, and through manipulation, convinced a handful of them that he was more than a storyteller in order to get what he wanted. He was an atheist because he was living according to his worldview, which does whatever is desired, because nothing mattered in his eyes. To him, there were no gods to answer to, no judges to face, and thus, he manipulated the world around him to do what he did best, use women as objects. Mormonism is specifically a man’s religion, much like Islam. It all points toward endless amazing sex for the Muslim. What about women? What do they get? To share one husband among a crowd of women? I’m sure that this sounds like an extremely exciting eternity for women, but realistically, it seems like it would get old after the first few thousand millennia. Mormonism is not far from this. When you die (if you are a good-enough Mormon man), you can populate your own planet with endless celestial sex, in the same way Mormons teach that God has done on this planet. Again, what about women? Nothing but objects. Objects that their husbands supposedly love, but nonetheless, objects. What do they have to look forward to in eternity? Objectification. Baby machines. Joseph Smith was clearly an atheist. He didn’t believe that he would have to answer for these kinds of things.
@@fayelewis5476 lol, I can see that in your well-reasoned and polite comments on this board. Thanks for playing. You're now blocked, you weren't the first, you won't be the last. I just have this thing about wrestling with - well, you know.
@@TheRealDonLayton No problem. You don't want to wrestle with the truth. You would rather die and go to hell/outer darkness than admit you are wrong. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.
If so, these are.......*ahem*........quite 'PINOCCHIO'-fascinating and compelling hypotheses..........*ahem*.......the fact that they do line up and seem to fit well, geographically...............*ahem*...............
Miracles differ person to person and if you're willing to see it. An example is my grandpa, who had only 6 months to live because he had stage 4 cancer all over his body. He wasnt a very happy person until that diagnosis. Then, he became happier. He lived another 5/6 years before dying and I consider that a miracle. Others can be things like cancer disappearing completely, some disabled people or ill being healed. It ranges and depends on your perspective
@@yaantsudnbesdai972 the geographic details are detailed. Are all critics just morons. Seriously. Not trying to be rude, but most comments are just so stupid.
Not at all. There has been lots of new scientific evidence about horses dating to pre-columbian times in the Americas. The work of Yvette Running Horse Collins and others is changing the narrative in favor of the Book of Mormon. There have been some articles in science magazine on this topic in recent years. We have an article about one study in the Texas Journal of Science here: evidencecentral.org/recency/evidence/horses
Horses debunk a New World Geographical Model for the BOM. If it happened in the Old World, horses, elephants, steel, wheat, barley and silk all make sense.
@@redfightblue look into it. Joe Rogan also talks about it with one of his guests on one of his podcasts haha which is actually pretty cool. His guest has studied ancient America for YEARS and it's ironic because he probably knows nothing about this debate haha. The podcast is with Elliot West #2058
@@joshuabrown1300 The evidence is overwhelming that horses went extinct in the Americas around 10,000 years ago and were not reintroduced until after Christopher Columbus. If the Nephites had horses their history would be dramatically altered. Having horses in an otherwise non-horse culture would be a dominating factor in all aspects of life. It would alter farming, trade, transportation warfare and recreation. All cultures that have had horses have left a large "horse" footprint. In Ancient Egypt, Rome and Greece, for example, they made statues of horses and carved them on temple walls. No one, to date, has ever claimed to have discovered, and carbon dated, a horse bone to Book of Mormon times. Also, no other evidence has ever been found like a carving or glyph. When you take the other anachronistic elements of the BOM as a whole, like elephants, steel, wheat, barley, lambs, etc. you have to start to wonder if the setting was Old World and not New World.
I disagree. I think Lehi and co made their way back up to the Jerusalem area and THAT is where Nahom is. 1 Nephi 16 indicates that after Ishmael was buried the rebellious of the group wanted to return to Jerusalem. This would have been practically impossible if they were so far away. But if they were near Jerusalem then it would have been reasonable for them to desire to return to Jerusalem. Additionally in the same chapter Nephi notes that they were "traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning;" Lastly, we know that they spent eight years in the wilderness. That is a ridiculously slow pace just to travel across the Arabian peninsula. It make much more sense that it took them eight years because they were traveling a much farther distance. In my opinion the textual evidence indicates that Lehi's group traveled southward then reversed course and traveled back they way they came near to Jerusalem. From there they traveled eastward, meaning Bountiful is in China.
And after they got to Bountiful, they headed up to Dubai for massages and cold drinks and talked about the good old days of cutting off Labans head, inventing the very first Halloween outfit and committing theft. Nephi was a good guy. He lied, he was a thief and he was a murderer. Good thing they didn't have temple recommend questions back in those days.
@@parkerplace2910 Yeah, but I'm pretty sure Mormon God is totally cool with murder though. I mean it's not even in the top 5 commandments! So it's cool. Nephi is in the clear too, Joseph Smith... I mean he wrote down how God told him to do it, so it's cool. He couldn't have taken the plates from an unconscious drunk guy any other way than to not just murder him, but to cut his damn head off and not get any blood on his outfit, which conveniently fit, so he could wear it and pretend to be him. I tell you what, Nephi had a surgeons hands to make cuts that accurate with a sword.
So do you subscribe to a deontological or utilitarian perspective of morality? Or perhaps maybe virtue ethics? It's pretty easy to point your finger at somebody else's moral theory and criticize it, but pretty difficult to create and defend your own.
According to the Mormon church, the true church ceased to exist after the death of the apostles. But also according to the Mormon church the apostle John never died and is in fact still roaming this earth according to section 7 of Doctrines and Covenants. But St John is not currently an apostle in the Mormon church. Over the past 2000 years the disciple whom Jesus loved never saw fit to join the Mormon church lol… I will convert to Mormonism as soon as he does.
Two things to comment, 1. Jerusalem was a walled City as mentioned at the beginning of the video. There is no way for traitors to enter the City four or five times without being spotted at the gates and be charged with treason and murder, specially after returning days later to get spouses. Not even plausible. 2. You are telling me Lehi, his wife and four guys packed and walked just about 8 days without pitching tents? Then the 4 guys came back and forth at least two times and when finally returned to Lehi, they even brought more women and Children with them to travel for 8 days to Lehi’s camp? I personally don’t think so. Thanks for sharing though, very interesting!
They were residents of Jerusalem, why wouldn't they be able to enter the city? Why would guards stop citizens of Israel from entering and leaving the city. Nice try, but the logic is not great. So that is a better argument than a river flowing into the read sea being a three days journey from Jerusalem actually being there?
Maybe he could have Google it? Oh, yeah. That technology was bot available, yet. Also, people didn't have access to maps from other countries with full explanations of topography and other information. Without ever going there and even if he visited there once or a few times, how would he be so accurate?
Fair question, I would urge You to investigate by yourself and find out, if it could’ve been possible for him to get that information from a different source. Thanks!
Did you like not watch the video, many of these places were not on any map. Like Khor Khorphot and Valley of lemuel. Geeze, its like people refuse to engage the evidence , which just shows you can't come up with a good argument against the video.
"Some people will find fault no matter what you do. You have to accept the fact that not everyone is going to accept you. Not everyone is going to like you or understand you. If you’re going to reach your highest potential, you have to be okay with not being accepted by everyone. If you want everybody to like you, then you’ll get stuck."
Have you read "View of the Hebrews"? It's nothing like the Book of Mormon. Judging by your comment, you probably haven't read either one cover to cover.
@@strjfs It's similar in the language style and the theme. But no the actual book is a bit different and not as interesting. In context, the belief that the Native Americans were decedent of the Hebrews was very popular at the time of Joseph Smith, This is also backed up by the early Spanish in regards to their observations of Native culture they often pointed out similarities but you can do this with most civilisations if that is the conclusion that you want. The thing is that the Native American culture is so different than what is in the Book of Mormon. Moroni was around in at least 400AD and there is not much time in between 400AD and the 1400's when Columbus came, yet everyone seems to have forgotten the Nephites. With a civilization as big and important as the Nephites there would be some kind of evidence left. To say that it all just vanished is pretty ignorant of how people leave evidence of their civilization. The Nephites and the Lamenites used steel for tools and weapons of war, and for that technology to suddenly vanish is really perplexing. there are many more examples. I do not think that Joseph had any inclination that science and Archaeology would advance so much as to be able to pick out any untruths in his work.
Here's what actually happened: In his youth, Joseph Smith secretly traveled the globe, walked the Incense Trail, excavated the Bar’an Temple, found the NHM inscription, reburied the temple, learned Hebrew, studied ancient Jewish law, discovered chiasmus, practised chiastic poetry, found the Dead Sea Scrolls, inserted text into them, used everything he learned to compose the Book of Mormon, memorized it, and dictated it off the top of his head--all so he could be harassed, beaten, falsely imprisoned and murdered. Either that, or he was actually a prophet.
There's another option you missed.
@@redfightblue so what is it?
And all that by the time he was early 20’s as well as reading numerous books that didn’t exist in the library or at all in the early 1800’s and duplicating names similar to what is in the Book of Mormon before they even existed. Either way he is amazing. 😮
@@wendyfoster5579 What books?
Joseph Smith Jr. was born across the river from Dartmouth University.
The reason the university was placed there was to reach out to the Native American Indians. There motto is "A voice crying in the wilderness" and their seal is an image of Native American Indians coming to the school, holding a Bible while the light of God shines down from an open Bible in the sky above.
Several students from Dartmouth published books claiming the Native America Indian was a lost tribe of Israel.
One of these books claimed to be their history that was found buried in the Earth. This was published before the Book of Mormon.
Joseph Smith Sr. frequently met with the men of the community at the university. He attended lectures and participated in conversations concerning the Native America Indian.
Hyrum Smith attended the prep school on the Dartmouth campus.
Joseph Smith Sr. and Alvin Smith were initiated into Freemasonry at Dartmouth.
The exterior of the Kirtland Temple is a replica of the center portion of the main building at Dartmouth. The Interior is a replica of the main lecture hall.
Dartmouth was just two buildings in those days.
The professor John Smith's main goal was to convert the Native American Indians and bring them unto Christ.
This is the environment Joseph Smith was born into.
There are NO books that didn't exist or were not accessible to these professors. Please inform me of the books you are speaking of.
Ben, hopefully redfightblue added some context to your comment. We don’t claim Joseph was able to accomplish what you mentioned, but there are many other possibilities that, it would be nice for you to consider as well. Not only that Joseph truly received this revelation that is completely contradicted by his following revelations.
Hopefully that makes sense. God doesn’t contradict himself, also, if a prophesy/command is not fulfilled, the prophet that claims to receive it is a false prophet, that is very simple.
One simple example, the building of Zion didn’t get fulfilled in Ohio nor in Illinois. That is a false prophesy, plain and simple, I hope you see that, no offense intended.
Thanks and GB!
Thank you so much for making this video, it's a concise easy to follow presentation of information from so many sources and by so many scholars. I will refer people to this as a springboard to the Old World evidences. This is a great primer to watch before the "Journey of Faith" documentary. I can't wait for you guys to do a similar introductory video for the New World evidences. Keep them coming and God bless!
Keep drinking the Mormon kool-aid!
Loved this video. Awesome information David.
Love the video. Great information.
The depth of deception is alarming. Breaks my heart!
Great video! Loved the content and the presentation!
I bet you love drinking the Mormon kool-aid too!
@@craigjohnson7298 it's actually Flavor-Aid but that may fly right over your head. You have no idea what I am talking about either do you?
Don't let this video be just another TH-cam video, connect the dots. If this is true then the Book of Mormon is also a true testament of Jesus Christ. This has remarkable implications!
I'm glad you found this video to be valuable. Thanks.
Amen
Keep drinking the Mormon kool-aid you guys! 😃
Craig Johnson good rebuttal, thanks for giving logical arguments
@@craigjohnson7298 My gosh Craig, I didn’t know we Latter-day Saints had our own Kool-aid! But you know, it can’t be as good as the Pineapple juice at Jollibee. Admired brother of cute snark, slick slight, playground sound: keep up the good work. The world needs more smirk, punk sarcasm, and ignorance.
Great summary of pre-ship trip physical evidence.
The journey was up the Nile river. That's where you'll find the river 3 days from the Red Sea. That's where you'll find the altar Lehi built. That's where you'll find evidence for Sariah. The BOM describes a journey from Jerusalem to Suez, Suez to the Nile River, up the Nile to Aswan, after Aswan they took the overland Dongola Bend shortcut across the desert, the returned to the Nile and journeyed to modern day Khartoum. From there they took the East branch of the Nile (Blue Nile) to Ethiopia.
The text of the Book of Mormon describes this journey as well as the Tree of Life vision. Lehi was on an island near Aswan when he had the vision. The vision clearly tells him to not stay in Egypt but to follow the river to Ethiopia. Ethiopia is the land Lehi believed to be the Garden of Eden and the location of the Tree of Life. Ethiopia fits the description of "Bountiful" perfectly.
Isaiah prophesized missionaries will be sent beyond Egypt. Lehi fulfilled this prophecy. Isaiah prophesized an altar to the lord would be built on the border of Egypt. Lehi fulfilled this prophecy.
The angel tells Lehi he was following the Word of God (Iron Rod) to the Tree. The prophecies of Isaiah are those "Words of God". The journey to the tree is along a river bank. The river in the vision is the Nile. The vision talks about those that fall away on forbidden paths and are lost. This correlates to Jeremiah's warnings to not go into Egypt or be destroyed. The vision shows how to pass through Egypt without being destroyed. The Book of Abraham tells us Egypt is forbidden. These are the forbidden paths Lehi sees.
The Nile River is the river Lehi renames after Laman. He says it flows into the "fountain of all righteousness" and then into the Red Sea. This fountain is the navigable shipping canal built from the Nile River Delta to the Red Sea. This canal roughly parallels the 3 day journey from the Red Sea to the Nile River. The word "fountain" is Lehi's description of what we would call a canal. We know Laman does not partake of the fruit and becomes wicked. When the angel tells Nephi Laman's seed will destroy his seed, the angel says "the river that thy father saw" here he is talking about the River Laman which is the Nile. He says the fountain will become filthy. This is because the destruction happens upstream from the fountain (canal). Laman's turn to wickedness is contrary to Lehi's wish. Lehi wanted Laman to flow into the fountain of all righteousness but the angel shows Lehi that Laman will not partake of the fruit and his hope is not reality. Laman will flow as a filthy river into the filthy fountain, the depths of Hell.
The Greek historian Herodotus describes many things found in the Book of Mormon in the 5th century BC. Lehi's sailing journey, the "fountain" (canal) and the Book of Mormon lands with a land to the North, a land to the South, a narrow neck of land between and the land to the South is surrounded by water except the narrow neck that connects to the North. He was describing Africa.
The Book of Mormon takes place in Africa and is an African text. It was written by Jews that escaped the Babylonian destruction by immigrating to Ethiopia. They believed Ethiopia was the Biblical Garden of Eden. Ethiopia was their promised land. In Joseph Smiths day, the Book of Mormon had many parallels to America. Joseph Smith believed America was the promised land, the land preserved by God for the second coming, the new Jerusalem and the gathering of Israel.
Im confused so do you believe the book of mormon is true then? Cuz you're arguing against joseph smith while simultaneously believing that the book of mormon was written by lehi. That makes no sense
@@jesscast94 Right, the solution would have to be that the BOM was an Old World text written in Ethiopia by Ethiopian Jews. It must have been discovered but never published.
My guess is it was discovered by James Bruce in the 1700's. He discovered lots of manuscripts in Ethiopia that his scribes copied. He published some but allegedly there were many more in the process of being translated into English and being prepared for publication when he died.
Then you have to look at what was happening in America in the early 1800's. There was a debate going on about the origin of the Native American Indian. Their presence was a problem for Bible believers. Why did God allow them to live and die (and go to Hell) so far separated from the possibility of knowing Christ for 1800 years?
Many people began proposing they were a "lost tribe of Israel". That's what the Book of Mormon does. The real "lost tribes" in the Book of Mormon, who were Ethiopian Jews, Were replaced with the Native American Indian and a religion was formed around this concept. An American religion for Americans. A new religion, for the last days.
All the prophecies the Ethiopians wrote in the Book of Mormon about Africa being the Promise Land for the Last Days are swapped out and it's now America. Ether 13:7 says "Egypt". It does not say America. This is the Lords "TYPE" it says. Egypt is the Lords TYPE. They were promoting Africa and they knew nothing about America.
Also, I recently realized that the Jaredites are the people Lehi sees in the Tree of Life Vision. They are the "prophets of old".
Just curious... Any reason the location and archeological findings of/at Biet Lehi were not presented in the video?
Just curious does your church have reason in persecuting other religions
KAREN what? How is this related at all to the video, or this comment?
This video is a great essay in confirmation bias, and working backwards to your conclusion, well done!
So you are just saying that Joseph was lucky?
@@RS-tz2zn No, that would presume that Smith was truly as accurate as the video implys. I can actually do a not to bad job of fitting Nephi's journey, as told in the BoM, into the geography of my state of South Australia. I can do this by using the same method this video does of selectively choosing descriptions from the book, that support my argument. Many of the accounts in Nephi's journey are also vague enough that they can be interpreted in a way that supports whatever conclusion one wishes to reach. Add to this the fact that the story was written to fit the geography of the Arabian Peninsula/Israel. Something that Joseph Smith had at minimum, a vague knowledge of. Even the video recognises it's not impossible for Smith to have had foreknowledge of many of these details, by using language such as "so there's a good chance he didn't know", instead of just outright saying it was impossible for him to know. Just for future reference, trying to strawman someone else's position, through the use of the "so your saying" trap is very intellectually dishonest. It's also just not a very effective strategy, as was seen in the now infamous debate last year between Jordan Peterson, and Cathy Newman.
@@chrisfromsouthaus2735 what about the whole land of N-H-M being where it should be, and called what it should be, They worshiped a pagan god in those areas, but their are places where it matches including just the name Nahom that's in the book of mormon. I don't think proves joseph Smith or the book of mormon. Just Cool from an outside perspective.
This is such a great video! Its amazing how accurate it is, especially Nahom and Bountiful. Great job Book Of Mormon Central.
Nahom has problems. There's just three letters on the alter "NHM" and they don't refer to a "place" like the BOM says. The letters refer to a nomadic tribe of people that aren't living near the alter. To say Nahom has been found is major stretch. The land of Bountiful also has serious trouble. That area on the coast of Yemen/Oman is hardly "bountiful". In fact, there's hardly enough wood to build a hut to live in. Building a ship from the trees in that area would be impossible. Finding enough wood for a ship anywhere on the Arabian peninsula has been nearly impossible for thousands of years. Especially a ship that could survive a trans-ocean journey. Also, the river described by Lehi that empties into the Red Sea cannot be the Wadi Tayyib. Wadi Tayyib does not flow continually. It never has. For most of the year the wadi is completely dry. That's why it's called a wadi. Wadi means dry river bed. It's a massive contradiction to say a wadi flows year round.
Not only what redfightblue said, but the narrator says that Joseph Smith wouldn't even know that Jerusalem was a walled city in 1829 which is blatantly false since the Bible specifically speaks of it. Shucks, the main story line of Nehemiah was the rebuilding of the wall. Numerous times the Bible speaks of different gates in that wall, and Hezekiah had to build an underground passageway to bring water inside it. So be careful with the claims of this video. When a narrator is willing to say such obviously false statements, you have to wonder how honest he is with the rest.
@@blusheep2 It was Emma that said Joseph asked her about the walls of Jerusalem. Seeing how she was there and you weren't I would be careful about coming to the conclusion it is a blatantly false statement.
@@caseykaelin9430 My critique was about the narrator and therefore the credibility of the rest of his claims. It was a warning. If someone in history named Emma recorded that J.Smith asked her about the wall, fine but this narrator presented the issue by implying that J.Smith 'couldn't' have known about it. He used it as evidence for the authenticity of the BoM. He misused us in so doing. He tried to manipulate us into thinking there was something there when there really wasn't.
What we are trying to do here is smoke out the authenticity of J.Smith's stories. Is he a fraud and a talented con man or is he authentically a prophet of God. We have way more indications that he was a fraud then that he was a true prophet. Way more. At some point a spade must be called a spade.
Those of us on the outside want to see something substantial. The Bible is incredibly supported by archeology and it covers so much more history. The BoM is practically crickets and relies on evidence that is nearly akin to "hey look. there is a river. See the BoM says there is a river. The book is from God." What I want to do is to look at the possibility or even the probability that J.Smith is a fraud. I want to do that because the Bible warns me about people like him, a person who preaches a different gospel then the one preached by Paul and the other apostles.
So, is it possible that J. Smith made it all up? Yes! It sure seems so and the use of the Jerusalem wall, inspite of all the knowledge they had about it in J. Smith's days, as an argument for its authenticity just shows the lengths a Mormon apologist must take to defend this work.
@@blusheep2 Joseph Smith certainly could have known if there were walls around Jerusalem. The question is did he? Emma, Joseph's wife, and part time scribe says he did indeed ask that question. The question is fairly well documented. Joseph Smith was a poorly educated young man that did not know much about the Bible. It is entirely possible he missed that bit of information.
Somewhere around 1838 or so a man named Howe published a book called Mormanism Unveiled. In it he claimed the BOM can't be true because Laban would not have had a steel sword because Israel had no steel at that time. The older KJV mentions steel three times in the Old Testament. Sometimes people miss things.
Emma Smith was an eye witness to the event. You are a distant observer with an opinion. No offence intended.
great video! I believe The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ to be true. It changed my life for the better when I read it during the summer when I was 12 years old. I love The Bible and The Book of Mormon and am so grateful for the wonderful influence of God in my life. ~Alex
This is a very informative video! Why can't we connect any dots at all for the Book of Mormon, Old World Geography in the Americas?
If J.S. made all this up, why did he go to such lengths to research the old world to put together information that would have taken amazing amounts of work, yet when the story moves to the Americas, apparently J.S. made no effort to make his story fit within any given area. This would seem to have been much easier to do. I think this only helps to suggest J.S. did no research prior to the b.o.m. being written
@@kenhuntley6575 The BOM is an old World text written by Jews that lived in Ethiopia. Lehi did not sail to America. The Land South is Africa. The Narrow Neck is the Isthmus of Suez.
Excellent video, but is it ok to talk slower next time. Because I am a ward missionary going to show your video to a over 80 year old lady who is going to listen slowly. Thanks so much You are awesome.
People of Isralite ancestory are everywhere. Especially among the near east peoples and beyond to the farthest reaches.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing.
The historian Herodotus describes Book of Mormon lands. He wrote it down in the 5th century BC. He even describes Lehi's sailing journey.
Khor Kharfot--oh, THAT'S how you spell it--had to look that one up. Yeah, there's no way Joseph Smith knew much of anything about Arabian geography which makes the Book of Mormon all the more remarkable.
It should also be noted that the general region that Khor Kharfot is located in is spelled "Dhofar." The narrator pronounces it as "Thofar" because that is its technically correct pronunciation. Sort of the way that we ignore usual English rules of pronunciation for words like ballet or rendezvous.
I’m not sure anyone is asserting that Smith knew anything about Arabian geography. Seems like a straw man to me.
This video is like a backronym. It’s like an acronym, but you assign meaning to the letters after you come up with the letters.
@@jordanmay6153 If Joseph Smith didn't know anything about Arabian geography, then he was either inspired by God or he was an impossibly lucky guesser.
RCpilot Some other important facts don’t really corroborate the pedophile narrative that antagonists like to paint. Fanny was not considered underage for her time and actually it was quite common for girls to marry at her age. Also he married 80 year old women as well. Even if you persist that there was some sexual perversion going on it is not reflected in any of his writings personal or other wise (of which we have so so so much of). In fact his writings are full of prayers and pleadings with God and faithful teachings and encouragement. He was a beautiful man from everything I can gather but the greatest of all the evidences of his divine calling is the BoM.
Why is the only mention of moroni, nephi, and many other names in the BOM only in the BOM?
The name Nephi is related to the Hebrew word Nephesh (נֶפֶש), which literally means the "complete life of a being" though it is usually used in the sense of "living being" (breathing creature). Many names in the BOM are similar to or come from ancient hebrew. Examples of these are "Aha", "Ammonihah", "Hagoth", "Himni", "Isabel", "Jarom", "Josh", "Luram", "Mathoni", "Mathonihah", "Muloki" and "Sam". Many non-biblical names found in the Book of Mormon resemble words from ancient Hebrew (e.g., "Sariah", "Jarom", and "Josh"). The greatest unearthly power I have felt in my life was praying 35 years ago if the Book of Mormon was true. I felt the power of the Holy Ghost beyond description or words. I was in Cuba last year on vacation. A nice man giving me a tour around his cigar plantation asked me to describe this new thing he heard about in his village called the internet. He had many questions about what it does and how it works. My wife and I did our best to describe it and how it works. He just couldn't understand it at all. He thinks that the internet is out there but he has absolutely no understanding of it or how amazing it is. This is the same as the spirit of God. It is there for all to feel if they seek after it. The sprit of God is a great treasure to mankind that can verify truth. I know, 100% that God lives and that the Book of Mormon is true.
Interestingly, there was a tribe in Arabia along the proposed path Lehi travelled that could be named after Lehi as well as namesakes for Nephi and Sam (not Samuel or Sammi as would be expected in that region) given to children that may have been a way of naming after important teachers as was a custom.
@@PaultheCanadian “It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere...” Prophet Russel M Nelson - 2016
If there is one true church then Satan owns all others. If Satan owns all others that means he will attack the true church persecute them. The church he attacks is the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. So members of the church don't get angry about these comments against our church and try to help these people out.
Kevin Durant There are other churches almost unilaterally persecuted- the Catholic Church comes to mind, everyone claims that Satan owns it
Brady I’m not against any church, but I can see why the carholic church is under attack. They are responsible for the damages of the crusades, they tried to sell tickets to heaven, they disobey the part of the New Testament where they sell merchandise in their holy houses. Not trying to bag against them, I’m just saying what they have done that people may use against them.
If that's your logic you should be a Jew since they get persecuted more than anyone BY FAR!!! You probably live in Utah so you think the church is persecuted.
One amount of time left out is the eight years traveling east after the broken bow incident. This mean they covered far less than a mile a day if were from the western shore of the Arabian Peninsula to Yemen. Yemen as a site of Bountiful does not seem likely to me!
In 1829, you stated Joseph Smith did'nt even know Jerusalem was a walled city.(1:35) He did know if he read his KJV Bible. The entire book of Nehemiah in the Old Testement, who was a prophet of God, was the historical narrative of the rebuilding of the walled city of Jerusalem. I find it hard to believe Joseph would not have known that as well as anyone who read their Bibles. We know their family had one in his youth.
His wife wrote that he was surprised to learn that Jerusalem had walls
Joseph Smith said that to deceive Emma Smith, his wife. He wanted her to believe he did not know the Bible and was actually "seeing" a revelation and learning things or the first time in a devine manner. He needed her on board and she was skeptical at first.
It has been proven that a metal bow was good for 100,000 shots, about what was expected when their bows failed.
Very well done video. Thank you for your work. I studied the work of George Potter and others many years ago including his dvd’s. Since then I have studied many other articles about it. But you concise, well done video makes these truths much more accessible.
Wow this video is excellent
Thanks for making this video with your time. It strengthens my testimony, " and signs follow those that believe". There is a mountain of evidence to support JS but it takes alot of searching within and outside the church. You made it alot easier. As -Cleon Schousan- once said,
" THE CRITICS KEEPS US QUICK ON OUR FEET".
Drinking the Mormon kool- aid keeps you quick on your feet!
What boats were used and how were they navigated to America?
Nephi built their boat in 1 Nephi.
That does not answer my questions.
@@ronanmccabe7902 I don't know what boat. the boat is long gone, because it was made of wood and set sail in 580 BC. The boat Nephi constructed was navigated to the Americas through revelation the group received from the Lord.
We will discuss this in a future episode of A Marvelous Work.
Can you provide a short outline here? Also is everything that doesn’t make sense explained by a ‘revelation of god?’
One of the greatest evidences of the Book of Mormon is something we're seeing right here. A person can hardly make a comment, post a video, have an opinion or belief - without critics rising up out of the woodwork. The angel Moroni told Joseph Smith that his name would be had for good and evil throughout the world. He was nothing more than an obscure farm boy in a remote part of the world (at that time). It must have seemed impossible. But so it is. Part of that name is the work and legacy he left. And it is unwittingly fulfilled by critics every single day.
@@3DFLYLOW Thank you for proving my point. Your misguided comment had great timing. And fwiw, every parent teaches their children according to their own beliefs. It's one of the many rights and privileges of being a parent. Are you going to teach your children to investigate the claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? I didn't think so. You won't, because you'll indoctrinate them according to your own biases. Thanks again for stopping by and proving my point.
@@3DFLYLOW lol, OK, OK, whatever you say! :) Have a nice life.
@@TheRealDonLayton Come on Don! Does that mean that because people criticize Scientology that it is true as well? If the church is true, then honest and objective evaluation of the evidence would show that.
@@danhoen4129 Straw man. Pretty sure you missed my point.
@@TheRealDonLayton Then please clarify your point because it sure seems like you are trying to say that because critics are critical, it somehow proves the church to be true.
I heard nahom already appeared in maps and I need non mormon source for the description of the bountiful place. Maybe there are some oress and other things there. But how much and how rare is it in other places, I need such answers from a non mormon source.
You wont find much because these claims are unsupported.
Nahom has never been found. The letters NHM on an altar in Marib do not refer to a "place" called Nahom but rather a person who was a Nihimite. These Nihimites appear to be nomadic bedouins that by definition did not have "place" like a city or a village. They moved around the region and disappeared from history without leaving any evidence except the altar in Marib.
Yes, the region referred to, spelled different ways (Nehem, Nehhm), was on maps in the 1700's. You can find more by researching the "Nahom Maps". Also google Jim Gee.
The Wikipedia page on "Nahom" is very helpful as well as the page on the Barran Temple in Marib.
You can actually see the altars on Google Street view by zooming in on the location in Marib and dropping the man on the blue dots.
Whether Joseph Smith saw the Nahom maps is impossible to know. Whether someone else wrote the Book of Mormon and they saw those maps is also unknown.
The "Bountiful" claim in Yemen is far more dubious. This area is not lush and green with timber and ore as the LDS try and claim. The only resemblance is during the monsoon months when things green up a bit for a short time. There has never been enough timber to build a ship. If there were, someone would have done it by now. The region has never supported ship building.
When Marco Polo visited near by at the straight of Hormuz, he remarked how poor the boats were. They were made of poor timber that was dry and cracked. The did not have ore for "nails". The boats were not sea worthy. They sank often and were only good for short fishing trips.
The following s my opinion:
Lehi's journey in the wilderness is clearly describing a journey back to the Garden of Eden. Bountiful is synonymous with Eden. Everything makes sense if you consider that Lehi first went to Egypt and then had the Tree of Life Vision. The Vision guided him South, up the Nile River to Ethiopia.
Ethiopia is the "head" of the Nile, something mentioned in the dream. Ethiopia is also mentioned as a candidate for the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2:13. Ethiopia is also green and lush and fertile compared to the Sahara below.
Nahom would be at modern day Khartoum where the Eastward turn happens. This is describing the convergence of the White and Blue Niles and Ethiopia is on the East Nile.
Nahom itself is an Ethiopian word. Baby boys are named Nahom in Ethiopia to this day.
The ship building and the ship journey is most likely out of sequence. I believe Lehi built a ship in Egypt and sailed for the Pharaoh. His journey was as circumnavigation of Africa.
I read through the comments and, of course, critics are entitled to their views. Unremarkably, they seem to predominate the section. As a researcher I would invite skeptics to laser focus on a theory rather than provide sidebar critiques.
How did Joseph Smith accurately describe the relationship and local environments of two geographic locations in ancient Arabia? The points are the geographic area Nahom (NHM) located 1500 miles southeast from Jerusalem (8 years journey) and a lush coastal region called Bountiful directly east.
Since no map available to Joseph Smith contained this information, the only answer seems to be that he guessed correctly. His 23-year-old imagination served him well.
Do skeptics have any other theories?
Joseph smith was a grifter. He was not the first person to describe this.
Also. Evidence is not used correctly once in this entire video.
The amount of comments being deleted tickles me.
You are asking for theories while you are the one said Joseph Smith introduced and practiced poligamy because there are lots of spirits in spirit world waiting to be born to this world. is that idea also coming from your research ? also here you are giving us geographical locations of the book of mormon to prove its authenticity but have you ever thought how in the world a man translate an ancient language by looking at a stone in a hat that he previously used for money digging? Have ever able find out from your research original copy of the text that Smith translated?
@@theoallred5105 What else do you expect from someone who is more superstitious.
Well said!
In view of 2 Corinthians 11:14, is it at all possible that foul spirits (demons) would have knowledge of the topography of the Middle East and other particulars stated as evidence in this video? A second thought, with young Joseph's involvement in the occult is it possible this could have opened a door that they could have used to work through this young man?
Michael p demons spirits... Occult. You are more familiar with evil than good ...best take the beam out of your own eye....
@@henochparks Interesting, your claim to possess knowledge of me that only God and Christ would have. You don't know me, yet you judge me as though you do.
I asked questions. In your opinion, do I not have the right to do so here?
@@msparkison you are not a victim. You are a an accuser
@@henochparks lol, I am in full agreement with you! I am not a victim (and never felt I am). I simply asked questions. Let each decide. Have a good day.
@@msparkison you are an accuser = Satan
My brother was saved from a mortar round hitting his barracks in Afghanistan, my Father was saved from cancer, my home town was saved from a raging forest fire, not one home was damaged. My great great Grandfather came over the plains with Brigham young and was known for his hunting skills, he was one of those who retrieved food for Brigham young when he became ill. My ancestors have seen angels, I have seen angels. I think of these verses from Matthew below when I think of Brigham young announcing all those years ago in seemingly barren wasteland, “This is the place.” I have seen the fruits of their labor and they are many and of great magnitude. [Matthew 7: ] (KJV)
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Thank you for sharing. What wonderful experiences and blessings 🙏
i know plenty of good mormons that have died from cancer. guess god has favorites.
I know, the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
@@ma.gemmadolalas2057 I KNOW it is not....
I respect your belief. Do you have a copy of the book? Have you read it? Please take time to read Moroni chapter 10, especially verses 2-7. If you believe in God, it is our Heavenly Father that you should have asked in prayer to know if it is true. That is what I did. You can do it,too. Thank you for your reply. God bless you 🙏
Circular logic, selective text interpretation, and subjective geography. This is a classic example of a strawman fallacy. There are also locations along the northern Levant which also match the descriptions given in the Book of Mormon. Any locations near Jordan or Lebanon would have plenty of lumber and valley based orchards, and match the descriptions of elevation change as you have indicated as evidence for your claims. Also analysis of genetic markers in Native American populations indicates origins in Eastern Asia not western Asia.
I would have to agree with hunter in that the Book of Mormon doesn't mention anything about Native Americans originating from Lehi. There are so many other continents and land masses out there. That being said, do you think that God would only communicate with people living in Mesopotamia or do you think that he would want to communicate with all of his children, regardless of country? Even if you don't believe in the Book of Mormon I think it's safe to consider that there are probably other records of God's dealings with people that lived on entirely different continents. John 21:25 KJV reads: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
More like you are selective with the evidence. Khor Khorphot has 12 different correlations. When I asked chat gpt about the probability of these evidences it said 1 in 32 billion. I recognize it can have error, but just dismissing massive hits, like Nahom, which has been found by the way is rediculous. It is not selective reading. It is an example of someone who refuses to concede to the evidence.
Sure..if your blind. But... Look at utah...the Colorado river runs in a GREAT VALLEY (grand canyon) emptied into the red sea( Alabama"Crimson"tide). The land was RED. Gulf of Mexico is a new name. Bring on your criticism, but will you investigate? This IS the question.
Very nice video, but you seem very defensive about the authenticity I just wanted to know what the Book of Morman says about the geography of the travels of the characters in the book.
If you read the book of mormon with true intent of seeing its real, you'll know for certain.
I'm LDS and I had a Seminary teacher (a religious class teacher) who told us about his father. His father went to different tribes all around america in the early 2000s and asked about their religious beliefs, then compared it to the BOM. Some of the tribes he told about the BOM and the stories lined fairly well. They even said they still have things so sacred to them given to their ancestors and passed on.
In fact some tribes chose to join us and others said they will wait for god. I will ask him for the video if you want to see it
This video is well produced and entertaining. Could do without the annoying background music. But I managed to listen to the whole thing anyway.
what does BMC satnd for
Book of Mormon Central
@@ryandahle541 oh thats cool are you a Mormon I am
Yep. I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ;). I happen to work at BMC. I also happen to really like Ender's Game.
@@ryandahle541 cool I like enders game too but I didnt base the name of my channel on it I actually didnt see the movie or hear about it till about a year after I made my channel
Fantastic video. Thank you.
Great work!
Title is an Oxymormon.... 😅
If you visit Utah you can visit Zion Park and Bountiful city. Thus proving JosephsMyth true::. The Garden of Eden is in Missouri
lame. Did you ever watch the video? There has to be a stream that empties continuously into the red sea that is a three days journey from Jerusalem, which just happens to be there. yeah you are so right. Anyone would know that. lol.
@@kennethyoung7564 indians are not Jews. They never coined metals, had a system of weights, never rode chariots. The Book of Mormon is a fraud. So is The Abraham Papyrus. The Garden of Eden is not in Missouri. Captain Moroni is not real despite Cliven and Ammon Bundy's claims to represent/ symbolize him
"The course that Lehi and his company traveled from Jerusalem to the place of their destination: They traveled nearly a south, southeast direction until they came to the nineteenth degree of north latitude; then, nearly east to the Sea of Arabia, then sailed in a southeast direction, and landed on the continent of South America, in Chili, thirty degrees south latitude." Joseph Smith [Richards, F. D. & Little, J. A. 1882. Lehi’s Travels: Revelation to Joseph the Seer. Salt Lake City: Deseret News Co.]
My whole family is Mormon, so this is not an issue I take lightly. I used to be agnostic and have been skeptically studying the Bible and researching its claims. When I do the same to the Book of Mormon, I’m just not convinced at all. I’m trying to give Mormonism the benefit of the doubt, I only care about the truth. I live in Utah and love all my LDS friends and family. They are a great people, and Bible believing Christians should take some notes on their approach. But the bottom line is the church teaches a false gospel. The reality is that the archeological evidence that “supports” the Book of Mormon is speculative at best. They’ve been clinging to the few things that allegedly “prove” the Book of Mormon instead of looking at all the evidence that shows Smith is a false prophet. Sadly, he and has deceived many.
External corroboration for the Bible stands apart by far, it’s not even close.... The Bible tells us to test the spirits. Not to believe every “feeling” you get from what you think is the Holy Spirit.
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
1 JOHN 4:1 NASB
““The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.”
JEREMIAH 17:9-10 NASB
The Bible and the Book of Mormon teach vastly different principles. I don’t see how one can hold both to the same degree, hey contradict each other on foundational levels.
Joseph Smith is a blasphemer. He implies that Jesus is a liar, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret [that God never told you]... In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.” -Joseph Smith Kings Follet Sermon emphasis added
Joseph Smith is clearly saying scripture is lying. He is claiming that he (Joseph Smith) is lifting he veil. Wouldn’t God be lifting the veil? Blasphemy. Moses & Aaron were punished severely for trying to take credit away from God when He provided water to the tribes of Judah in the wilderness. Joseph Smith is claiming to “lift the veil”. He doesn’t even try to give credit to God. To his credit, he shouldn’t, its a heretical & blasphemous statement to say the least.
The Bible teaches that there is one true eternal God, found in one Being. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. The body of Christ has no organizational church, but we are only brought together by the love of Jesus Christ.
“Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were born or You gave birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”
PSALMS 90:1-2 NASB
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.”
HEBREWS 13:8-9 NASB
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.”
MATTHEW 24:35 LUKE 21:33 MARK 13:31 NASB
If you are a Mormon and follow Joseph Smith, you simply are not following the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. We need to stop trying to lump Biblical Christians and LDS together like the church is trying to do. It’s leading more people to deception. We need to read and study the real Scriptures daily and ditch the terrible teachings of Joseph Smith.
He's not saying that he will literally remove the veil, but rather that he is helping to expand the minds of those listening/reading as though the veil is being removed from their minds. The veil is a symbolic way of describing how memories of our pasts are temporarily blocked upon entering a mortal life. As one becomes more like God, such people are then entrusted with more knowledge and spiritual blessings. Joseph Smith as a prophet of God had the opportunity to see beyond the veil, just as past prophets had. He then shared his knowledge with those that would hear. Each of us can also come closer to God and learn more of his ways (as the scriptures call "mysteries") and can even see beyond the veil for ourselves.
I also am a seeker of knowledge and truth and find no discord between the Bible's teachings and those in the Book of Mormon and Church of Jesus Christ leaders. I find that such words help expound upon the teachings found in the Bible and even give new insights into God and his dealings with others that have lived on the Earth. As it says in John 21:25, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
I do respect your opinion, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it's teachings saved me from a dark path. I feel peaceful in my life and have come closer to God than I ever would have thought possible. I have heard His voice, felt His love, and have received forgiveness for my sins. No work of the devil and his deception could do to me what HAS happened to me. It was of God, as is this Church.
These are just a few of the scriptures that I read when searching for a church. I've always believed that Christ and The Father (and the Holy Spirit) were one in unity and purpose, not the same person that talks to himself or splits himself up for various tasks.
Mark 15:34
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a
loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama
sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My
God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Luke 2:52
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature,
and in favour with God and man.
John chap. 7
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine
is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know
of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or
whether I speak of myself.
28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he
taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know
whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but
he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.
John chap. 14
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my
Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go
away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me,
ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto
the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John chap. 15
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide
in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s
commandments, and abide in his love.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen
you, and ordained you, that ye should go and
bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should
remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the
Father in my name, he may give it you.
21 But all these things will they do unto you
for my name’s sake, because they know not him
that sent me.
John chap. 16
3 And these things will they do unto you,
because they have not aknown the Father, nor
me.
5 But now I ago my way to him that sent me;
and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
John chap. 17
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father,
art in me, and I in thee, that they also may
be one in us: that the world may believe that
thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and
will declare it: that the love wherewith thou
hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
John chap. 20
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I
am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my
brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my
Father, and your Father; and to my God, and
your God.
@@NeilYoungHorne With all due respect, I know the true and living God that is spoken of in the Bible. I have read the Bible dozens of times now and the Bible contradicts Mormonism every where I turn. Here are a few examples.
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
- Article of Faith #3
Book of Mormon For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
- 2 Nephi 25:23
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).
The Bible
Eph. 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
***********
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
I John 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
**********
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 92).
The Bible
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
***********
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
The Bible
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
- John 14:6
***********
"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
The Bible
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
***********
There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Mormon Doctrine, p.670).
The Bible
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name (Jesus) under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.
- Acts 4:12
@@kevinkiffe Jesus said your sins would not be forgiven if you did not believe He was God.
John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
God is the first and the last.
Isaiah 48:12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel [f]whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
The first and the last died and rose again.
Revelation 1:17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying,
“Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last,
18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore,
Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. As a man, Jesus ate, thirsted, slept, wept, prayed to God and died. As God, Jesus rebuked Satan, forgave sin, performed miracles, accepted worship from the people, raised the dead and even raised himself from the dead. John 2:19 It is called the hypostatic union.
JESUS IS GOD
Matthew 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Even God called Jesus, God.
Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.
Even after all of this that he explained, you still don’t believe Joseph was a prophet. I think at this point you just don’t want to believe it.
Its true true mom said its true I know its true pray and find out if its true true true...Why is it that we don't look at the Bible like this? Why do I have to find out if the BOM is true? Who cares about this ridiculous book?
@@johnrowley310 you said true a lot lol
It is OVERWHELMINGLY evident that Joseph was just a conman.
@@timmiestabrnak it’s OVERWHELMING evidence that Joseph smith was telling the truth and that he was a prophet
@@timmiestabrnak because Joseph smith was not a rich man. He got like no money from it. He didn’t die rich
Now that they have found a house and small community about 20 miles south of Jerusalem called the house of Lehi. And the fact that the city of David or Jerusalem you can walk all the way around it in 45 minutes. I think he was pretty well sure that they were was at least some semblance of elevation to the city. Why in the world would you say something that dumb. That stands out really bad. It's also very indicative that Lehi was probably fairly wealthy. Just like most people who can pick up and move their families fairly quickly and completely
Steel bow?
The phrase “bow of steel” occurs three times in the KJV: 2 Sam 22.35, Job 20.24, and Ps 18.34.
"Steel" need not imply a bow made purely of steel. Only a bow that was 'plated' exteriorly from steel. There are examples and references to other "steel bows" in ancient times.
Case in point: It was possible to 'break' a steel bow since inside and out it wasn't made purely from steel...
The trip down the coast of the Red Sea is described in the travels of Marco polo, which was published in 1811. This video does nothing to vindicate the book of Mormon.
Interesting. And the travels of Marco Polo accurately describe places such as the River of Laman, the Valley of Lemuel, NHM, Bountiful and more, all with accurate descriptions of plant and animal life, ore, relative directions and distances from each other? Just as remarkable is the fact that a young school boy who could hardly read had access to all of these books and documents. Simply amazing.
Don Layton no. It’s evidence Smith wasn’t the sole author.
@@whizwhitney The evidence is that Joseph Smith wasn't its author on any level. Word print studies have shown the Book of Mormon has multiple authors, and that Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding, Martin Harris and Sidney Rigdon were not among them.
@@TheRealDonLayton hahaha liar
@@TheRealDonLayton Hahaha liar
Research Elephantine Island if you want to know where Lehi went.
I found Narnia a much more plausible answer to this question.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. I know this is true. Anyone who REALLY wants to know the truth of the Book of Mormon will be drawn to it and find their answer, if they truly desire it.
drawn to it for the wrong reasons.
If you can spend some time in here young barbara perhaps you see if Joseph was true, where would you like to start, type in the Angel Nephi appearing to Joseph , then he changed his mind to The Angel Moroni. then we will go on to the next thing, perhaps his marriage. , saving people from themselves seems to be the norm here, tasking them on to the real Saviour
Jesus.
Hello Barbara, I had an honest and sincere question in relation to the Book of Mormon that I was wondering if you could help me with from your genuine perspective. The question is (and this is asked so that I may understand the mindset of the LDS members): If the Book of Mormon was created by prophets of God, and one, maybe two, of said prophets made a prophecy that was confirmed as being false according to historical evidence, what would it mean for the Book of Mormon's validity as a whole?
This is asked not to insult but to understand what people of this religion believe in relation to the prophetic portion of the Book. I've done a little bit of research and have written about it in an archival sense, but what I DO NOT have is an actual member's personal thoughts on the matter.
Haha. Right. True prophet who, along with the early founders, all men, lied to their wives that the divine gave them instruction to lay or marry with other women. Haha, right. To which I'll add, one of my ancestors, Smith tried to lay with her, she was 14. My family were def. not trying to have that.
@@jimjames2429 Smith loved the really young ones...
Is video downloadable to show to people who do not have wifi?
I love the Book of Mormon! I read it everyday. I also love the Bible. I know both speak of Christ. This is wonderful. Though this is interesting-the evidence of the book’s truthfulness has come to me through the power of the Holy Ghost as I’ve read and prayed about the book.
There is no accounting for taste read what you want believe what you want does it make it real
If the Bible is uncorrupted and the Old Testament and the New Testament do not contradict the Book of Mormon, what need do we have for the Book of Mormon? Since all that is necessary for salvation is found within the Bible?
We believe the Bible to be the word of God but also believe that precious truths have been lost to it through the centuries of translation, compilation, and retranslation. It does not contain all that is necessary for salvation, neither does the Book of Mormon. The fullness of God's restored Church has been revealed through scripture and modern day revelation. We are grateful that the heavens aren't closed and that God still speaks today for our benefit and learning.
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial So why bother with ancient scriptures?? Just ask Nelson...
To those who say that The Book of Mormon is rubbish, etc; I have personally received witness from Heavenly Father confirmation to my heart, mind, and soul, that this record is TRUE. Via Prayer
How about the Book of Abraham?
@@duosythe I know what you are really after: The Book of Abraham, and the Book of Moses, plus all of the Old Testament, the New Testament, the 15 Books that comprise The Book of Mormon, all of the Doctrine and Covenants are ALL TRUE. Again; all witnessed to my heart and mind, that these are indeed of God. I see His handwriting in all of these. Why don't you read with an open mind, make up your brain, and go ask Him? As James 1:5 invites you to. You may disagree with me on any point; I KNOW WHAT I KNOW as witnessed to me, via the power of the Holy Ghost.
The Muslims got their answer from God, so did the JWs, so did the Buddhists etc... But YOU'RE right huh?
@@utahbac9882 You have a closed mind. I invite you to open your mind, to further light and knowledge, that Heavenly Father wants to give you, IF you are willing to go and seek this. You choose
@@alasdairwright1575 no thanks, I think logically, not emotionally like religious people.
Very interesting and informative! Great video! Thank you! Just one comment for feedback. I found the repetitive background music to be distracting. Throughout the video, there was an emphasis on one note, which sounded like a car door was left open.
If you didn’t catch it...Lehi wasn’t wandering in the wilderness like it sounds...he allegedly was traveling down a well traveled highway complete with rest stops and towns for supplies. The Incense Road traveled by merchants with large caravans for more than a thousand years. Major use ended around 300ad, butThe pathways were so well beaten into the ground a research team used areal photography to map many parts of the road in still visible in 2006. Notice he leaves out the part of the journey where a few dozen people were able to build a transatlantic vessel from scratch. Think of the amount of lumber, iron, food, water, and ship building skills it would take to cross the Atlantic? A project of this proportion would be one of the greatest miracles in the Book of Mormon story! But it would take an army of ship builders to complete such a task even if they had the materials. No way this story happened.
I recommend that, before offering a critique, you read what Latter-day Saint scholars have already written about the feasibility of Lehi's party building a ship at Bountiful. Moreover, the fact that the text says the Lord directed their shipbuilding activities makes this a fairly weak line of attack. If one can't accept the possibility of miracles, that's fine. But it does little good to say there is no way they could have naturally done something when the text itself claims they had divine help.
@@ryandahle541 Sorry but this argument is absurd. The entire premise of this video is to show the plausibility of the journey. You can't just say "the Lord provided" for the implausible parts that the book describes. Did the Lord also erase all of the evidence that would show that the Book of Mormon is historical?
@@danhoen4129 In these debates, both sides usually agree that you can't assess a text's historicity by looking at the plausibility of its miraculous details. Instead, both parties look at the non-miraculous claims for decisive secular evidence, one way or another. I'm not saying that building the ship was a complete miracle. The text indicates it took man power. But locating the materials and constructing the ship were, according to the text, directed by the Lord. Moreover, we don't know how many people helped. We don't know what type of ship they were creating. And, contrary to your previous claim, we don't know how long it took them (the text doesn't say a year).
Do you have any evidence that an unknown number of people couldn't have created a ship in an unknown manner in an unknown amount of time with divine guidance? Hopefully, you can see the problem with testing the text on this matter.
@@ryandahle541 _In these debates, both sides usually agree that you can't assess a text's historicity by looking at the plausibility of its miraculous details_
So as long as you claim miracles, then critics can't say it wasn't impossible. Got it.
_we don't know how many people helped_
The text doesn't mention others outside the group or mention labor or trading with anyone outside the group
_We don't know what type of ship they were creating_
We can actually surmise quite a bit from the text. We know that it had a mast and that they could steer the ship. So this means it had to have at least one mast, multiple sails and rigging and it probably was keeled and had some type of rudder. We also know that with all the provisions that were procured and loaded, the ship was most likely decked with several levels. The text mentions "going down into the ship, with all our loading".
Just for the sails alone, it would have required a couple hundred sheep which are only shorn twice a year. Plus they would have had to build the tools to process the wool and stitch together the sails.
Then to bend the keel, they would have had to build steam houses and the massive tools required to bend it.
_And, contrary to your previous claim, we don't know how long it took them_
Again, you can surmise a general time frame. They purportedly arrive in 592 BC. In 591 BC Nephi is commanded to build the ship. And by about 590 BC they are on the sea.
_Do you have any evidence that an unknown number of people couldn't have created a ship in an unknown manner in an unknown amount of time with divine guidance?_
Based on the clues given with the text, even with "divine guidance", it's highly implausible.
Ryan Dahle the video makes it sound miraculous that Lehi could make this journey in the wilderness all alone. He makes it sound miraculous that they could find water and food at “just the right spot”. Amazing! It’s a miracle! God is keeping them alive through an empty desert! Nope. They are traveling down a well know incense trade road complete with towns for food an supplies. It’s so well known it’s in the history books. It isn’t a miracle that Joseph could have had this information.
I believe that Lehi's journey in the wilderness was a SINAI journey, not Arabia although the prevailing theory is Arabia.But the prevailing theory for the Book of Mormon lands is Mesoamerica and the BofM events actually took place in the "Land of Liberty" the U.S.A.Go figure!
Why do you say "Sinai"? Have you found any evidences in Sinai? I believe Lehi went through Egypt into Ethiopia. I have found many reasons to believe this.
@@redfightblue more reasons than the Arabia finds?
@@beefmaster4 Yes.
@@redfightblue I am having a hard time finding anything on this theory, could you give me a few key words to research?
@@beefmaster4 There's very little on the internet about it. I think I read a BYU students paper on it but I have filled in a lot of the gaps that paper was missing. I'll try and find that paper. Here's some of the highlights.
Lehi leaves Jerusalem and travels down to the Red Sea.
He crosses over Pharaoh Necho II ancient Canal of the Pharaohs that connects the Nile River with the Red Sea. (This is controversial with many historians claiming Necho never completed the canal. I believe the Book of Mormon is evidence the canal was completed.)
He travels South along the West side of the Red Sea avoiding Egypt proper in the Nile River Valley.
He travels 3 days from the Red Sea to the Nile River using Wadi Hammamat. The Nile River is the only river within a 3 day journey from the Red Sea.
Traveling along the Nile River, Lehi makes camp on an island on the river and builds an altar. Many Jews fleeing the Babylonian destruction would follow this immigration route and a Jewish Temple will eventually be built at this spot. The ruins of the temple can be seen today. Later this island will be given a Greek name, Elephantine. Jews living on the island will leave additional evidence of Lehi when a daughter is named after Sariah. This proves Sariah was a name for a female and provides evidence that Lehi and Sariah once lived on this island.
Lehi claims the Nile River flows into the Red Sea but clarifies in the next verse that the river flows into the "Fountain" of the Red Sea. Lehi is talking about Pharaoh Necho's canal. The word "fountain" is Lehi's description of the canal. A fountain is similar to a canal in many ways. They both take a large volume of water, divert it into a small area and then discharge it into a larger area again.
Lehi leaves Elephantine, traveling on the Nile River until the start of the Dongola Bend. At this point, travelers going upriver would leave the river and use a shortcut known as the Korosko Road (South-Southeast). This is a shorter route than keeping to the river and avoids the cataracts that make river travel impossible. The Korosko Road is an 8 day journey with a resting point at the Murat Wells (a mini oasis) in the middle. Lehi specifically describes the 4 day journey to the oasis.
The next leg of the Journey is described as "many" days but we know they complete the shortcut and return to the Nile River because they use the phrase "same course". Another word for a river is "course".
They then travel along the Nile River until they reach Nahom. After Nahom, they travel East. I believe Nahom is modern day Khartoum. When travelers on the Nile reach Khartoum, they would have a major decision to make. Should they travel the White Nile or the Blue Nile? Lehi travelled East meaning they chose the Blue Nile.
Bountiful would be modern day Ethiopia. It is well established that Jews immigrated to Ethiopia around 600 BC. Ethiopia is a very temperate and fertile region that fits the description of fruit and honey.
The "raw meat" is significant as well. Ethiopians have a history of eating raw meat. It is considered a delicacy to this day with many Ethiopian tribes still eating raw meat.
What do you think? Is any of this interesting to you?
“It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere...” Prophet Russel M Nelson - 2016
Amen to that
@@KUR4H I LOVE how you demonstrate you're not familiar with basic logic:
(1) Saying the B of M is not a "definitive" account of the agriculture or politics of an entire world hemisphere, is NOT the same as saying it is not an authentic record FROM a world hemisphere at all.
(2) A record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, is NOT the same as saying a record of SOME former inhabitants of the Americas.
Unfortunately for you, almost all the most definitive attacks on the Church actually rests on what Russel M. Nelson denied in this passage, so it makes sense that you have to deny logic, here, to cover up that failure. For example, the whole idea that ancient Americans are genetically Asian, and, therefore, couldn't be descendants of Book of Mormon peoples rests ENTIRELY on the extra-scriptural idea that ALL and ONLY Book of Mormon people are Native Americans.
I agree with what @towardcivicliteracy wrote. What say you?
@@towardcivicliteracy
You realise it actually *DID* used to say that it *was* an account of the first native Americans…?
Did you know that in 2006 there was a change made to the Book of Mormon intro?
Pre 2006 BoM Edition
“…except the Lamanites, and they are *the principle ancestors of the American Indians* “
Current BoM edition
“…and they are *AMONG* the ancestors of the American Indians”
This is a pretty big shift in the Book of Mormon don’t u think?
Beit Lehi is also down from Jerusalem.
I knew it! The Lord of the Rings is a historical account. How else do you explain the great detail of middle-earth in the books?
Can middle earth be corroborated with actual locations on this planet? If so, did Tolkien have access to the materials he would have used to formulate Middle Earth? If you watched the whole video and understood what was being portrayed, the references in the Book of Mormon are actual places with specific attributes that Joseph Smith could have known nothing about. It's only been recently that the items in the Book of Mormon have been compared to these specific trading routes and locations where we see value in the comparison. These would be considered evidence that these specifics in the Book of Mormon are accurate to reality. Middle Earth has no basis in reality and can thusly be described with unabashed creativity.
@@jmhatutube Naming places that exist and where known to exist is not evidence for authenticity. If you think it is, you'll believe anything, like a book that claims central American populations are descendants of Jews.
@@jmhatutube Actually, yes, Middle Earth can be corroborated with actual locations on this planet. That was the intent of the author, after all. It even uses some of its own language, an unknown language Tolkein had to translate for us! (Well, he created it.) The difference is, Tolkein was just more intelligent than Smith, and his intent of creating a fictional story is well documented. Joseph's intents (based on his actions) were less... savory.
A real question, where did the Nephites and Laminates live? For 169 years, your church has not come up with a definitive answer. Don't understand why? If you have a prophet, why doesn't he ask God to tell him? This is a real big problem with Mormonism. Give us archaeological evidence to validate where they live. It's in your corner.
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that a primary purpose of this life is to live by faith. Overwhelming empirical evidence of Nephites and Lamanites in the Americas would provide overwhelming evidence that Joseph Smith had, at the very least, an authentic ancient record in his possession and a miraculous ability to read it. That in turn would provide extraordinary evidence of his prophetic calling. My opinion is that God never intended for that type of evidence to come forth, just as he never intended there to be empirical, incontrovertible evidence of the resurrection. I mean, if Jesus truly rose from the dead, why doesn't he just appear on CNN and get it over with. Why all the hassle of making everyone endlessly debate his existence and weigh the evidence from ancient texts, of which there are not even any original manuscripts for examination.
My personal opinion, after having studies a vast amount of research on these topics, is that there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to accept that the Book of Mormon might be authentic. There is therefore good reason to make the question of its authenticity a matter of diligent prayer and spiritual testing. The evidence I speak of comes from diverse fields of research, such as archaeology, linguistics, literary studies, various fields of science, and so on, often from scholars and experts with relevant secular education.
Any proposed anachronisms need to be viewed in light of this comprehensive research. It should also be understood that mere absences of evidence are of limited probative value when evaluating ancient data sets.
@@ryandahle541 There is overwhelming evidence for the resurrection of Christ.
You should read, Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus, by Nabeel Qureshi.
Those who seek, find.
DAVE BARTOSIEWICZ. YOU ARE SICK. THE BIBLE NAMES MANY PLACES AND CIVILIZATIONS THAT CANNOT BE FOUND. EXAMPLE. WHERE IS THE LAND OF TARSHISH. SCHOLARS HAVE LOOKED FOR IT FOR CENTURIES. IS THE BIBLE A FRAUD? GROW UP.
@@henochparks Haaha that's a pretty open question "is the Bible a fraud?" Well I would say that probably a lot of things in the Bible are no different than the Greek or Roman legends.
Slight correction: They have come up with a definitive answer. Or at least they did at one point, and decided to keep changing till today there is no longer a definitive answer, so it is even more of a problem than never having narrowed it down when Joseph Smith and the early prophets did give a definitive answer.
Great video, the evidence will continue to grow over the coming years!
Ed, truly all this begs a real question about archaeological reality: like where is just one sample of the so called Joseph Smith "Nephite language" found anywhere? Surely if the claim is that there was such a BoM civilization and existed for over 1000 years, then where is just a single example of their language? Or do you have any idea what this supposed golden plate "language" even looks like? I mean you cannot very well be claiming to be translating a NON EXISTING language with merely placing your face in your hat, while looking at a round robin egg shaped mud rock, something that J Smith borrowed from Willard Chase, back in 1822, and again in 1827. Something smells really fishy here, wouldn't you agree?
I mean about the face in the hat and money digging with a magic rock thing....something that Smith himself claimed that he could "SEE" none existing pirate money treasures and silver mines, and other underground objects for years during his youth -- prior to his book making saga using the same deceptive techniques.
Ed quack quack
I know the book of Mormon is false
@@MPOLLACCHI1 thanks for your opinion...
@@Rypaul5217 I have a question for you, Do you believe in the Holy Bible?
@@Rypaul5217 Well, I can tell you have a good testimony about your beliefs. This is my belief on things. First off, it's important to understand spiritual truths should not be based strictly on physical evidence. If this were the case, the Holy Bible would fall almost as short as the Book of Mormon. Critics frequently hold the Book of Mormon to a higher standard of proof than the Holy Bible. There are many things that lack historical evidence which many Christians apparently don't take the time to consider. There's no historical proof of Moses or the Exodus. No evidence for early Israelites in Egypt.
-Jericho and Ai (Josh 8) were both ancient ruins at the time of the conquest of Canaan, according to archaeologists. Jericho's walls were destroyed centuries before Joshua.
-Defeat of Sennacherib did not happen at Jerusalem, but at Pelusium, near Egypt, and Jews were not involved, contrary to 2 Kings 19.
-Daniel's account of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar is historically inaccurate; Nebuchadnezzar was never mad. Belshazzar, whom he says was king, was never king, but only regent. Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar, but of Nabo-nidus. Babylon was not conquered by Darius the Mede, but by Cyrus the Great, in 539 BC (Dan 5:31). Darius the Mede is unknown to history.
-Chronology of the empires of the Medes and Persians is historically incorrect in Isa 13:17, 21:2, Jer 51:11, 28
-Esther (and all the characters in the Book of Esther except Ahasuerus [= Xerxes]) is unknown to history, even though it claims that its events are "written in the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia" (Est. 10:2). The Book of Esther is not quoted by any pre-Christian writer, nor mentioned in NT, nor quoted by early Christian fathers.
-Mordecai became prime minister to Xerxes (Ahasuerus), who reigned 485-465 BC. But Mordecai had come to Babylon in 596 BC with Jehoiachin (Esther 2:5-6).
-Jesus as a historical figure is not mentioned by any contemporary non-Christian writers.
-Matt 2:1 says Jesus was born in the reign of Herod, who died 4 BC. Luke 2:2 says he was born during Quirinus' governorship of Syria, which began 6 AD.
-There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the slaughter of the innocents by Herod (Matt 2:16-18). Josephus, whose history contains much criticism of Herod, does not mention it.
-There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the graves opening and the dead appearing to many at the crucifixion (Matt 27:52-53).
-the Euphrates is reported in Genesis before and after the flood, apparently unaffected by the massive destruction.
Given these considerations about the Holy Bible and the large number of contradictions present in the text, it is easier to not believe in it rather than to believe it is true. So if questions of archaeology need to be asked about the Book of Mormon, these must be honestly asked of the Holy Bible.
Now back to the Book of Mormon in answering your questions...the historical proof is on the plates of the Book of Mormon. We don't know what the language looks like because the plates were returned to the angel Moroni. The reason there aren't any other examples that have been found of the "Nephite language" is because the plates weren't large enough to write regular Hebrew on them; and the language had become forgotten a few times through war and wickedness; Mormon 9:33-34, 3 Nephi 5:18, 1 Nephi 1:2-3, Omni 1:17, Mosiah 1:3-5. There are examples of the language needing to be retaught - Mosiah 9:1, Mosiah 24:4. As far as Joseph Smith translating with the use of a seer stone and a hat, Joseph translated by the gift and power of God.
I suspect you haven't read in-depth about the whole process of translation which is miraculous in and of itself: Joseph having a 3rd grade education at the time of the translation whose wife knew he could not dictate a well-worded letter, 531 pages translated over 65 days, Have you ever tried to write a book? this is impossible, every time he resumed translation, he never said, "Now where did we leave off?", he just resumed adding words to the translation during the entire 65 days. The amount of detailed names, places, analogies, information in the Book of Mormon is staggering, yet people simply refuse to acknowledge it. There were no deceptive techniques in translating the Book of Mormon, critics fail to recognize all the witnesses present during the translation.
Excellent
Great job on the video! I still think it's crazy people refuse to read the book for themselves and instead resort to trying to find faults with it or those that were involved in the translation. Love this book, love the whole Bible, and love the continuing revelation that Christ bestows upon all of his followers who are of an open heart and a willing mind.
Neil Horne I have read it, and it’s not true. Notice they say plausible but n everything they claim here, and use very generic terms and imply specifics. NHM could be anything including Niham since the group there is still called NiHM. 100% supposition. Like the history channel show about aliens they give this much evidence aliens are real, do you believe them?
I've read large swaths of it I think South Park got it right
Nice
Why does he talk about miracles for 4 minutes before bringing up the fact that Lehi is just following a well know Incense Road? Answer...because it isn’t miraculous at all when Lehi is following a well traveled trade route. Merchants traveled the road for over a thousand years and there would have been many record of how to make the journey available. Information on this route would have been know to bible scholars because of the connection to the 3 wisemen bringing frankensense and Myrr on the same path.
Does the video ever say that it was miraculous that Lehi's family traveled this route or that Joseph Smith couldn't have known about this route's existence? These are straw man arguments.
Joseph didn't even know Jerusalem had walls. He had the equivalent of a 3rd grade education and was a simple farm boy living in a remote area of the US (at that time). Yet a handful of people continue to insist that he had access to documents and maps that were limited to a few scholarly circles, while being an expert in ancient Middle-Eastern geography. Simply amazing!
Don Layton there is an ever growing collection of evidence that Jospeh has fabricated his writings. The detailed reports of his deception about polygamy to Emma, the church, and newspapers. We know he had a multiple arrests and a conviction in New York for Fraudulently claiming he could use a seer stone to find treasure in his money digging scam. We know he twice falsely claimed the power to translate Egyptian when he produced the book of Abraham and the “ancient language” of kinderhook plates. We know he falsely claimed receiving revelation to translate the Bible but now BYU research tells us he unquestionably plagiarized the Adam Clark Commentary.
All of this evidence points to Joseph’s history of fraud and inability to translate...which leaves us with the question...how could he have put these details into the Book of Mormon? all Joseph needed to put the story of Lehis journey down the Incense Road was a decent description of the route.
How likely is that information to exist? The Incense Road was a major travel route for hundreds of years. This is likely the same route traveled by the 3 wisemen that brought Jesus frankincense and myrrh. The Incense Road connected Egypt, Israel, Rome, and Arabia during most of the time period covered by the Bible. It connected the economies and provides Incense for religious ceremonies of the major countries of Bible times. The information about this route would have been very common knowledge and someone studying religion or history would likely find it.
@@matthewfullmer3739 I'm not going to debate you. I've looked at everything you posted and much more. I've also looked at the pro-LDS side. There is so much to counter your claims. In my opinion, the overwhelming amount of evidence supports my faith. For you and others, exactly the opposite is true.
Less than 20 years ago, two Evangelical scholars did the same thing. They looked at the evidence, both for and against. Their conclusion? Evangelicals are losing the battle and don't even know it. I suggest you read something not written with destroying the church as its primary motive.
@@matthewfullmer3739 grow up no one in 1830 had any idea of what you claim
There will be no evidence until all Latter day saints read and study the book of mormon.
There already is evidence though.
There will NEVER come a time when all Latter-Day-Saints read and study the Book of Mormon, at least not before the coming of Jesus Christ.
William Henley there is ample evidence to disprove the validation of the BoM. It’s not a matter of “if”, but “when” the leaders at the top of this cult come out to denounce this faith. And this faith is destined to be denounced because it is dead.
Craig Johnson Oh really? In my years of study I’ve not come across any of this. Please respond and let me know as well as citing your sources. As for the second part of your response, that’s a common logical fallacy used by critics to try and sway people’s emotions. That isn’t going to happen. Watch Bruce R McConkie’s last testimony. He was close to death at this point and yet still stated with absolute surety that he believes in what he has taught. In fact think of all the Prophets that have done this close to their death. Your theory is untenable. I know the human mind loves conspiracy theories but all these men are honest and believe what they teach.
@@richardholmes7199 You are starting from the wrong point when it comes to burden of proof. There is no need to prove the BoM as fraudulent, because it has never been proven to be what it claims to be. It must first be established as what it claims to be, an accurate historical record (which it is failing at, miserably), and another testament of Jesus Christ (a faith claim, that requires belief in the miraculous and remains somewhat untestable due to the nature of miracles, but can be boiled down to special pleading.)
Those two things are not widely established, or accepted. The first, especially, is refuted by the actual testable evidence available. So, no need to prove a non established work as fraudulent. It just hasn't ever been established as anything more than fiction or fantasy.
To all the haters and anti-mormons :
"Some people will find fault no matter what you do. You have to accept the fact that not everyone is going to accept you. Not everyone is going to like you or understand you. If you’re going to reach your highest potential, you have to be okay with not being accepted by everyone. If you want everybody to like you, then you’ll get stuck."
-Joel Osteen-
This quote could also apply to flat-earthers. To all those offended by "haters and anti-Mormons": "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." - Brigham Young
it's just that there is truth, and then there is fantasy that Mormons, flat-earthers, Reptialian believers, moon-landings were faked, chemtrail believers, 9/11 was faked/inside job believers, TWA 800 was shot down by the Navy, Jeffrey Epstein was killed by the Clintons, Sandy Hook was a false etc etc. Just because YOU believe something doesn't make it true. Truth is that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality. How about joining us in a little reality? There is no lost tribe of Israel in North America, there is NO evidence that has withstood scientific scrutiny. The Mormon evidence has been disproved every time new claims have been invented.
Great role model there
@@6862ptc epstein didn't kill himself
Riley Jacobs sure he did.
Well done video. This evidence, coupled with prayer and confirmation from the Holy Ghost, will point honest, truth seeking people back home to live with Father in Heaven (which is exactly what He wants for every single one of us). Beware of people who fail to include prayer and the Holy Ghost, as they will continue to be negative toward simple truths (see Stealth Mode and others, below)..."never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth" (2 Timothy 3:7 warning, presenting itself clearly in our day). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is alive and well, preparing for the triumphal return of the Savior to this earth!
@Doug Schooley... I want to thank you for your comment!! Through my prayers, I had received a confirmation from the Holy Ghost that The Book of Mormon is true & the word of God, which ultimately led to my joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!! After I found this video & watched it this morning, I kind of scrolled through comments, as I often tend to do... I feel disappointment & sadness when I see or hear comments (such as those made by Stealth Mode & also some others beneath this post) against the Lord's church!! However, even more than that, I find myself feeling sorrow, combined with compassion for those whose hearts are so hardened that they refuse to refuse to listen to the Holy Ghost, who testifies of all of God's full & complete truths!! Have a good day!!
So you have missed a lot of information as usual. And this story was already written before the book of mormon. View of the hebrews. And steel handnt been invented yet. They left around 580bc steel showed up about 200bc. And a steel bow would be usless.
Good point Kirk, but there are several references to steel bows in the Bible as well: 2 Samuel 22:35; Job 20:24; Psalm 18:34. At that time steel could meant any hard metal. It could also likely refer to a wooden weapon that had metal trim or reinforcements. Similarly see Joshua 17:16-18; Judges 1:19; 4:3 for "chariots of iron" which obviously weren't made completely of iron.
@@TimMellor just checking your references there. Samuel talks of bronze not steal. Job, again bronze tipped arrows, psalm again "bronze". Please read your bible "steal" was NOT invented. And book of mormon is clear it was a steal bow. Oh but i say something different to what it reads, that's what it really means, Holy crap.... I was kicked out of sunday class a few weeks ago for correcting the teacher. This is the issue.
Can I also point out that Joseph Smith said the earth is only 6000yrs old. If you do not believe this, how can you trust the rest of his teachings?
@@kirkprior4367 - I see that we are looking at different editions of the Bible as well. I based my comments off the King James version first published in 1611. Unfortunately language isn't precise and it changes over time, and translating between languages complicates it further - hence the need for so many versions of the Bible. I don't know what the bow was actually made of and it isn't really important to me. Side note, according to Wikipedia steel has been found in Europe dating back to 1800 BC. The reason I read and believe in the Book of Mormon is because I am a better person and have a better relationship with my Savior because of the concepts & principles it teaches. I'm not trying to convert you or anyone else or prove the book is true (an impossible task), I just wanted to add my opinion to a possible explanation to your comment. Thanks for taking the time to discuss. Happy new year!
@@kirkprior4367 lol yeah sorry the world itself is disproving you.
Not that long ago everyone was crying foul with the mention of domesticated barley in the BoM. Then in the 1980s it was discovered to exist in pre-Columbian America. You don’t hear that criticism any more. The trend of disproved anachronisms has been in the favor of the BoM for a long time. Patience will pay off.
It’s essential to read and understand what Joseph Smith personally said and wrote about Book of Mormon lands as he's the only prophet who translated the Book of Mormon records, repeatedly described the peoples, animals and lands of the Book of Mormon "as if he had lived there, his entire life," as his mother said. Here are the only facts we have of Book of Mormon geography:
D&C 28:8 "And now, behold, I say unto you that you [Oliver Cowdery] should go unto the Lamanites and preach my gospel unto them..." D&C 28:9 "...Behold, I say unto you that it shall be on the borders by the Lamanites." -Revelation given from Jesus Christ to the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1830
2- D&C 30:6 "...for I have given unto him power to build up my church among the Lamanites." Revelation given from Jesus Christ to the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1830
3- D&C 32:2 "And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall go with my servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites." -Revelation given from Jesus Christ to the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1830
4- "The Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western tribes of Indians... by it we learn that our western tribes of Indians are descendants from that Joseph that was sold into Egypt, and that the land of America is a promised land unto them. Personally written and signed by, Joseph Smith Jun., 1833 Letter written by way of commandment from God to the Rochester Observer.
5- "The whole of our journey, in the midst of so large a company of social honest and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls and bones, as proof of its divine authenticity, and gazing upon a country the fertility, the splendor and goodness so indescribable, all serve to pass away time unnoticed. Personally written and signed by the hand of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1834
Joseph Smith personally received revelation from God to send missionaries, one being the transcriber of the Book of Mormon plates, to THE Lamanites, even to the border of the Lamanites, in Missouri. Missionaries were immediately sent to: NY, OH, IN, IL and MO, as commanded by Jesus Christ, testifying that the Book of Mormon is a record of their ancestors and established the church there. Joseph Smith never sent a single missionary to: Mexico, Central or South America, nor did any Latter-day Saint prophet in over 75 years after the church's founding. Joseph personally met with and testified of the Book of Mormon to the: Fox and Sac Algonquin tribes of the Great Lakes, up until a week before his death, whom he and U.S. national leaders described as Western tribes of Indians, as they were forced from their lands in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Michigan, to Iowa and westward. The Lord knows where the Lamanites lived, Joseph Smith knew where they lived as he personally met with them and testified to them.
Besides Jerusalem and the Arabian Peninsula, the plains of: Ohio, Indiana and Illinois, locations where the Nephites lived, the ancient Nephite city of Manti, Zelph’s mound, Adam’s alter that Nephites used and the Hill Cumorah, where Joseph Smith personally testified of each location, we have no knowledge of exact locations of the Book of Mormon, nor do we need to know their exact locations but we do know exactly where Book of Mormon lands are, as revealed by the Lord: Missouri to Western New York. Any other theory is pure speculation and opinion that runs counter to revelation from Jesus Christ and should be discarded and ignored, along with all other opinions and speculation.
This video seems to have touched a nerve. I'm seeing quite a bit of irrational anger and hate in the comments below. Evidence for the Book of Mormon is growing which is evidently a tough pill for some people to swallow.
Evidence isn’t growing. You must be joking. It’s all made up a book of Mormon, pearl of great price, book of Abraham, American Indians were the lost tribe of Israel, Jesus came to America and his second coming will be independence Missouri
Lamanites, Nephites all made up
What hate? It didn't touch a nerve. You are really projecting here. Something being refuted, contradicted, or rejected isn't irrational anger or hate. It's simply a refutation, or asking for more. And if this is your idea of growing evidence, then I have a lovely bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you...
strjfs .. no not hate ...just intellectual common sense. The simple truth is Joe Smith merely wrote (or should I say "spoke") out a story book novel, with claiming to have translated his book with a language that doesn't even exist. (is not surprising)
Any idea what Smith's so called language even looks like? I am willing to respectfully wait for your reply: just one google picture perhaps
this question is not about hate of any kind, just a simple question asking where the heck is an example of the proposed language that Smith claimed he translated? anything come to mind?
Rypaul5217 I would argue it is statistically impossible that the BOM was “spoken” but a young frontier boy.
I could make this video with a map of Canada instead of Israel. When distances don't matter, and all I need to find is beehives, I can extrapolate whatever conclusion I want.
The protagonist's alleged bow could not have been made of steel, as that material had not bee invented yet. As for claiming that the arid climate might have contributed to its failure? Sure, only if one knows nothing about metallurgy. Facepalm!
@@benmmm7359 then explain all these geological proofs
@@Daryndaprowhich geological “proofs”
The fact is, where we have a firm marker on BOM geography - the evidence is compelling.
Sam Smoot oh you cannot be serious! The reality is there is not one location found or any one archaeological finding to be in connection to Joseph Smith's story book novel, but more importantly, there not even any evidence or a sample of the proposed BoM language seen anywhere. Which in my mind is a huge hole in this whole affair. Surely if the claim is that there was a 1000 year old civilization, we should at least see something of their language somewhere. how is it that there is not even a single symbol or letter, or line of the Nephite alphabet or language? And really what does the alleged Nephite language look like, any idea?
Sam Smoot lmfao nope go read the statement of the Smithsonian and National Geographic
@@Rypaul5217 Its hard enough for archaeologists to decipher ancient languages as it is, not to mention one from a persecuted minority such as the Nephites in ancient Arabia and the Americas (Hamblin citing Joyce Marcus, Mesoamerican Writing Systems (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1992), 212-220). If you want some physical proof, keep in mind the mention of barley in the Book of Mormon. For a long time, religious scholars and critics pointed out that barley came to the American continent with early European settlers, until they found traces of pre-Columbian new world barley. There is 100% archaeological proof, and it dates back thousands of years to simple things that might not be otherwise realized. The Nephites learned cement worked in the new world, as mentioned in the BoM, and just in the past 75 years has there been found evidence of skillful cement work in mesoamerica. Employing the word “cement” was cited as anachronistic proof of the Book of Mormon’s fabrication until recently, as more archaeological proof has been piling up. Even though there is a lot to go off of when looking for physical proof of the BoM (you just have to do some basic research before you take to writing angry comments), people will always find ways to discredit proof unless you have a spiritual testimony as well as supplements from a physical one.
@@scoobertdoovan--- yes yes, we all know that Asians did understand how to make and use what is called "ancient cement", no biggy...even in ancient China they made and built with what is called Chinese cement, ie is clay mixed in with a bit of lime and some sand, put in a form, then kiln for a few hours in a blow furnace. Ancient cement was common place. and therefore is nothing new to ancient antiquity.
iows finding a brick in the dirt says nothing about how it is a Nephite made brick...could be any one's brick, or something made by "American Asians" who might have migrated into the American continent years ago either by the pacific Polynesian oceanic crossings, or through the Bering strait pathway through the North from Siberia. as the DNA and linguistic evidence suggests.
The truth is should there be a claim about any history, at any time, there has to be physical "evidence" in order to support such a claim ...iows before we can define history, there should be more than a number of comparisons to make, (where one grain of sand a beach does not make) ..for example, we know something about the history of the Hittites from thousands of clay tablets they have made viz a extinct LANGUAGE of the past, now translated, known not just from ancient ruins, but specific hand written documents about that culture from that time period and location.
Needless to say language = something visible..so without a language you can't say where a cement brick came from or made by whom...much less a clay pot, or a copper spoon...iows. a cement brick is just a plain object made of sand, lime and clay, and means nothing by itself. however with writing it would be more telling that such a civilization did in fact exist and to whom it is designated for whom. wars and battles and trade routes and so on, for example the Qing Dynasty could not be historically and culturally said about without a written language.
ok so can you show us an example what Joseph Smith's "Nephite language" suppose to look like? (post it here if you have any idea what it was,..) Smith was the one who claimed to have translated this supposed language, so there should be at least one example of it somewhere, after all this was suppose to be a 1000 year old civilization, making lots of books and schools, else where on earth is this language, may I ask?
@@scoobertdoovan and if you seeking to infer to an alter with three letters NHM from Arabia? NHM was figured to be the name of a pagan god for that alter, the three letters was not a reference to a place, and hardly should you be able to infer just three letters, be in connection to Smith BoM because in reality three letters could mean anything. (and this is a rather ambiguous argument, if not that of the definist fallacy, or even the fallacy of association) But however, if we look at this word simply, it seems to me, (as this seems more likely the event when making such a comparison) that there could be an explanation for the word Nahom found in the BoM, is that Nahum is one of the books of the Bible, and that Joseph Smith may have simply remembered the name by close pronunciation of it, and incorporated it into the text while dictating to one of his scribes openly. whom upon hearing the name merely spelled what was heard as Nahum or Nahom from the mouth of Joseph Smith jr.
"Entirely plausible," it just followed the damn coastline.
Um did you miss the geographic details in the text? Like the fact that Bountiful has 12 different correlations, that only match Khor khorphot or however you say it. Like literally you just took extensive evidence and just reduced it by ignoring 99 percent of the evidences. lol. Good job. NOT.
The BOOK OF MORMON is a True Book , search ,ponder and pray , God will reveal the truth for honest seaker....
Confirmation bias taken to an extreme.
According to second nephi 25:23 “it is by grace we are saved after all we can do.” Following this verse to its logical conclusion would mean we all burn in Hell for eternity because no one alive has done “all they can do” to merit salvation. The Book of Mormon stand in stark contrast to the Bible in Romans 10:9. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
That verse wont work with an educated LDS Member. Nephi lived in Old Testament times and the entire chapter discusses that they must live the Law of Moses for now however, when Christ comes, salvation will come by grace.
Your point is valid though because LDS do not believe in grace for salvation per se. LDS have a work-around claiming that everyone is saved no matter what and the works they do are for "exaltation". Exaltation is very different than Salvation in their minds. Their version of Hell is actually the third kingdom of heaven. Exaltation is what elevates you to the higher kingdoms.
That’s not the interpretation the church takes, and you would know this if you weren’t disingenuously picking talking points instead of engaging with the doctrine
We don’t do our works to get exaltation, our works are evidence of the faith that has changed out hearts. “Faith without works is dead” there I can quote your scriptures out of context at you as well.
@@benjaminvandenberghe9726 Wrong. You are required to agree to certain works in the temple. These works are tied to specific blessings if accomplished and curses if you fail to do the works properly. What you said about simply doing works as evidence of your faith is misleading and disingenuous especially because the temple is a secret ritual not intended for the general public to know or understand. Your comment is false. The works you agree to in the temple are required for your exaltation.
@@redfightblue Yeah and the bible teaches that baptism is required by Christ to be born again.
"The only stream that continually streams towards the red sea throughout the year", 2:26 Shows a picture of a the wadi tayyiba dried out 2:04. Even the simplest research shows that this video has been made up of lies and selective text interpretation. The Wadi tayyibah is a seasonal water course. Even the most basic research finds that. If you are this selective with the pieces of information you take from the book of mormon and combine that with deceptive geographical evidence which gives a deceiving image of the landscape of the Arabian peninsula it is really easy to make a few informed guesses seem like a miracle.
I testify, along with millions of other people, that the Book of Mormon is ancient scriptures fund only by revelation to a boy named Joseph Smith- who became another prophet of God, who, once again, organized Jesus's church with prophets and apostles, and now has the authority of God to minister ordinances such as baptism.
I love all Christian believers and look forward to the day we can all join together in common belief such as-that Jesus is our Savior. We must all repent, be baptized, and endure to the end in the Lord. God bless all Christians everywhere!
By their fruits ye shall know them... and I see many great things happening in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and in other Christian churches. Keep up all the great service to those in need! Together we can make a difference..if we put aside our differences.
The Mormons are nothing but liars and a Cult, They have absolutely nothing to do with the Nation of Israel or the Jesus of the bible, You Mormons can't Read nowhere in the bible about Joseph Smith restoring the church or about the book of( Garbage) I mean Mormon it's not the church Jesus started is the bible in fact the Mormons are not a church at all
@@jameswines6752 Has a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wronged you? I sincerely hope not. A sincere study of the Book of Mormon may help with your lack of insight and knowledge. I believe in our Savior, Jesus Christ. He is the same one I learn about in the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
The Book of Mormon is pure fiction.
What a surprise!!! A book written in the 1800s was written with a basic understanding of geology.
Actually Nahum and the like weren't discovered until after Joseph Smith was already dead so somehow Smith knew about several of these locations before modern scholars.
I’m blown away
And then they sailed from Arabia to the Americas around the Cape using steel implements and speaking Reformed Egyptian and practising polygamy all in the anticipation of becoming gods themselves: makes perfect sense.
Joseph of Egypt did use the Egyptian script, and as they left that place it would be reasonable for the script to change to adapt to their Jewish language and their practices. The people of this book are descendants of the same Joseph.
Where in the book of Mormon does it promote polygamy? If anything Abraham had multiple spouses, and only because God commanded it.
In any case, are we not all children of God? To become perfect and become like him is a commandment, and Jesus Christ is our leader and example.
It's not that outrageous if you think about it, the same faith that you have that led you to believe whole heartedly in the truthfulness of the Bible, is the same faith that we have to believe that the Book of Mormon is also the world of God.
@@lamp5256 where is there any evidence of « reformed Egyptian » at Nephi’s time ?
That right there should be your own evidence, the BoM doesn’t speak of many doctrines later introduced and continuously changed/edited.
God never commanded Abraham to have multiple wives nor he did.
Please research better those comments. Agar was Not his wife and he married Cetura after Sara’s death. Clear like water to me, I hope that helps!
Thanks and GB!
So I see you ignored all the evidence in the video like everyone else, on this thread that have no arguments. And all maps of Nahom weren't available to Joseph Smith in his lifetime. And it was discovered by archaelogists in 1996. So your response is a total fail, you use incredulity and mockery, because you can't confront the arguments head on.
The Book of Mormon is not a fair book to based the LDS church off of. You must read all their books and teachings then you can judge if it is true. And it is not. Read the book of Galatians and Romans
Great Point there, I appreciate how much you read and value the Bible.
Unfortunately, take this example to apply to your comment, teachings and interpretations contradict each other. Daniel describes in Chapter 7, Jesus receiving dominion and authority from the Ancient of Days. Based on the Bible itself, God Almighty gives His son he mentioned. When the new revelation comes, all of the sudden, Adam is the one giving Authority and Dominion to Jesus.
Either Adam have some unknown power in the Bible, or your new revelations are Not from God Almighty!
That is my personal opinion, maybe I am wrong.
Thanks for sharing and GB!
You realize that the idea of eternal hell was not mainstream until the fifth century AD right, and early christians believed in three degrees of glory. Sola scriptura is not biblical.
@@kennethyoung7564 No hell? Why follow Christ at all. Wasting his time on that mean old cross...
So ambiguous, and no evidence at all, and not even in the direction to america, like the common way was the same as jonah, to Spain, called Tarsis at the time.
Did you know that aztalan . Mazatlan, atlan are Ancient Greek names in Mexico? Trying to say atlantis, did you know these ‘’ handbags of the gods’’ are in every ancient culture, Egypt, assisted, Inca, Mayan, Aztec, gobekli tepi 6000bc , it’s just labans was special cause they was brass. It takes tremendous effort to be in denial.
A place called Bountiful in the Arab peninsula? JS missed this one.
A rock in a hat.....enough said
I dare you dictate a book with your face in a hat for 6 hours straight.
Rock? Like the ones the high priest used in the bible?
Merilynclawson the high priest of Israel had 14 rocks best study up
HaveGotToGitGud I got to thinking....,can you imagine putting you face in a hat for hours and breathing residue Mercury ( that’s what they used to make hats) you’d become crazy and have hallucinations.
@@marilynclawson YOU MUST THE CRAZY ONE. MERCURY IS TOTALLY WASHED OUT BEFORE THAT HAT IS SHAPED OR THE MILLIONS OF OWNERS WOULD NOT HALLUCINATE BUT HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE. OWNERS WHO WORE THE HATS FOR DECADES DID NOT SHOW ANY DAMAGE....PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN.
Because they knew where you that all of us were that’s why they went inside African only we were slaved so if you want to talk, you have to know which people even the Arab like today. They have different names because the other took them they called them before Morse in Spain or everywhere, the history bro please I am a nice guy you want to learn the role is very deep it’s not what we learn in school so I have to go deeper for somebody don’t want you to know the truth. Sorry.
You use this word "evidence", I don't think you know what that means.
@@towardcivicliteracy The flow of reasoning goes from evidence to conclusion, not the other other way around. The problem here is starting with a conclusion (the BoM is true) and then finding evidence to support it. The proper way to support the BoM is to find evidence of Hebrew and/or Egyptian settlements (cities, coins, writing, etc) in the Americas, sites of huge ancient battles, DNA, horse/honeybee/cattle/elephant/wheat/silkworm remains dating to those times, and the other BoM anachronisms, all without better explanation.
The BoM makes specific claims and those claims are either not supported by evidence or there are equal/better explanations for that evidence. I'm not opposed to it being true but that conclusion must be determined methodically.
@@MichaelSmith-fq3pg That would be the case on a traditional scientific method. However, this religion considers all those as auxiliary evidence, as the primary evidence comes from God through a prayer of faith. For us these evidence are meant to reinforce what we already know to be true. Although they do serve to add veracity to the book for those who are outside the church.
@@lamp5256 Then the best that can honestly said about the BoM is "I want it to be true" or "I believe it's true" but saying "I know it's true" is optimistic folly.
@@MichaelSmith-fq3pg That indeed would be the case if we based our beliefs toward this book on Archeology, which is precisely why we seek an answer from the divine, after all, archeology has been disproven with archeology over and over. And that would be very simmilar to building on loose soil.
@@lamp5256 “It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere...” Prophet Russel M Nelson - 2016
Here's my argument against this evidence: Nobody would've managed to do such a journey just with his family and friends back in around 600BC. Especcialy the walk from Shazer to the camp of the broken bow must've been impossible to manage in an adequat time back then.
Great! Try and disprove the rest of the video! Your counter-argument is merely an opinion.
Der Shogun yes, but that’s where god comes in.
@@vulkan7800 well i could say aswell "I am one of the 2 end-times prophets because god said so" . Notice something ?
@@dershogun6396 Well, as mentioned, there is an existing route that many bedouins have traversed in the last 2000 years. While we don't know who traveled first, Lehi's journey is completely reasonable if difficult.
@@brettmajeske3525 No it is not. Our earth is so big that you can essentialy invent any given geographical description and find a place on earth where all the requirements fit.
A True Prophet
Joseph Smith Jr.
Conman
The History of the Mormons is very similar to the history of Islam.
It's actually much more similar to the history of Judaism and Christianity, but sure, there are parallels to Islam as well. God raises up a prophet to teach the people. New scripture is revealed. False, sectarian notions are corrected. Revelation and miracles take place. God sends many witnesses to testify of the truth. God's people are persecuted and even killed for their beliefs. The correlations are many.
@@TheRealDonLayton Smith shot people up, stole men’s wives, made a wrong-era language translation of a book that has no archaeological evidence to support it whatsoever, taught radical doctrines never heard of before in theology, and the list goes on. It seems that the reason Mormonism grew is because he was the type of man who had an answer for everything, and was better than most at keeping track of his lies.
Unfortunately for Mormonism, Smith couldn’t keep track of all of his lies, and eventually they caught up with him and an angry mob exterminated him. It is only Smith’s successors who continued to elevate him to a higher status, because they also saw the benefits of Mormonism, which was being able to justify the feeding of their similar lack of self-control. (endless sex in the after life)
Joseph Smith was an atheist because he took notice to the trusting naivety of his contemporary fellow man, and through manipulation, convinced a handful of them that he was more than a storyteller in order to get what he wanted. He was an atheist because he was living according to his worldview, which does whatever is desired, because nothing mattered in his eyes. To him, there were no gods to answer to, no judges to face, and thus, he manipulated the world around him to do what he did best, use women as objects.
Mormonism is specifically a man’s religion, much like Islam. It all points toward endless amazing sex for the Muslim. What about women? What do they get? To share one husband among a crowd of women? I’m sure that this sounds like an extremely exciting eternity for women, but realistically, it seems like it would get old after the first few thousand millennia.
Mormonism is not far from this. When you die (if you are a good-enough Mormon man), you can populate your own planet with endless celestial sex, in the same way Mormons teach that God has done on this planet. Again, what about women? Nothing but objects. Objects that their husbands supposedly love, but nonetheless, objects. What do they have to look forward to in eternity? Objectification. Baby machines.
Joseph Smith was clearly an atheist. He didn’t believe that he would have to answer for these kinds of things.
@@TheRealDonLayton I have higher morals than Joseph Smith.
So do most atheists.
@@fayelewis5476 lol, I can see that in your well-reasoned and polite comments on this board. Thanks for playing. You're now blocked, you weren't the first, you won't be the last. I just have this thing about wrestling with - well, you know.
@@TheRealDonLayton No problem. You don't want to wrestle with the truth. You would rather die and go to hell/outer darkness than admit you are wrong.
Eternity is a long time to be wrong.
Is this a joke???
Have you read the ook of mormon? If not, give it a try
This still hypothetical, none of it has been claimed to revelation
I am a Mormon, I received so many miracles and still have spiritual guidance (including visions) from God.
@@clarasuccess Can you tell me more about these "miracles"?
If so, these are.......*ahem*........quite 'PINOCCHIO'-fascinating and compelling hypotheses..........*ahem*.......the fact that they do line up and seem to fit well, geographically...............*ahem*...............
Miracles differ person to person and if you're willing to see it.
An example is my grandpa, who had only 6 months to live because he had stage 4 cancer all over his body. He wasnt a very happy person until that diagnosis. Then, he became happier. He lived another 5/6 years before dying and I consider that a miracle.
Others can be things like cancer disappearing completely, some disabled people or ill being healed. It ranges and depends on your perspective
@@yaantsudnbesdai972 the geographic details are detailed. Are all critics just morons. Seriously. Not trying to be rude, but most comments are just so stupid.
Horses debunk the Book of Mormon
Not at all. There has been lots of new scientific evidence about horses dating to pre-columbian times in the Americas. The work of Yvette Running Horse Collins and others is changing the narrative in favor of the Book of Mormon. There have been some articles in science magazine on this topic in recent years. We have an article about one study in the Texas Journal of Science here: evidencecentral.org/recency/evidence/horses
Horses debunk a New World Geographical Model for the BOM. If it happened in the Old World, horses, elephants, steel, wheat, barley and silk all make sense.
@@redfightblue look into it. Joe Rogan also talks about it with one of his guests on one of his podcasts haha which is actually pretty cool. His guest has studied ancient America for YEARS and it's ironic because he probably knows nothing about this debate haha. The podcast is with Elliot West #2058
@@joshuabrown1300 The evidence is overwhelming that horses went extinct in the Americas around 10,000 years ago and were not reintroduced until after Christopher Columbus. If the Nephites had horses their history would be dramatically altered. Having horses in an otherwise non-horse culture would be a dominating factor in all aspects of life. It would alter farming, trade, transportation warfare and recreation. All cultures that have had horses have left a large "horse" footprint. In Ancient Egypt, Rome and Greece, for example, they made statues of horses and carved them on temple walls.
No one, to date, has ever claimed to have discovered, and carbon dated, a horse bone to Book of Mormon times. Also, no other evidence has ever been found like a carving or glyph. When you take the other anachronistic elements of the BOM as a whole, like elephants, steel, wheat, barley, lambs, etc. you have to start to wonder if the setting was Old World and not New World.
@@redfightblue you should go listen to that podcast.
I disagree. I think Lehi and co made their way back up to the Jerusalem area and THAT is where Nahom is. 1 Nephi 16 indicates that after Ishmael was buried the rebellious of the group wanted to return to Jerusalem. This would have been practically impossible if they were so far away. But if they were near Jerusalem then it would have been reasonable for them to desire to return to Jerusalem. Additionally in the same chapter Nephi notes that they were "traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning;" Lastly, we know that they spent eight years in the wilderness. That is a ridiculously slow pace just to travel across the Arabian peninsula. It make much more sense that it took them eight years because they were traveling a much farther distance. In my opinion the textual evidence indicates that Lehi's group traveled southward then reversed course and traveled back they way they came near to Jerusalem. From there they traveled eastward, meaning Bountiful is in China.
And after they got to Bountiful, they headed up to Dubai for massages and cold drinks and talked about the good old days of cutting off Labans head, inventing the very first Halloween outfit and committing theft.
Nephi was a good guy. He lied, he was a thief and he was a murderer. Good thing they didn't have temple recommend questions back in those days.
To be fair, Lehi didn't murder. He just had his kids do it for him!
@@acronen You're right! ....except for that one time and the "broken bow" incident when everyone sat around and complained. Lol
@@parkerplace2910 Yeah, but I'm pretty sure Mormon God is totally cool with murder though. I mean it's not even in the top 5 commandments! So it's cool. Nephi is in the clear too, Joseph Smith... I mean he wrote down how God told him to do it, so it's cool. He couldn't have taken the plates from an unconscious drunk guy any other way than to not just murder him, but to cut his damn head off and not get any blood on his outfit, which conveniently fit, so he could wear it and pretend to be him. I tell you what, Nephi had a surgeons hands to make cuts that accurate with a sword.
So do you subscribe to a deontological or utilitarian perspective of morality? Or perhaps maybe virtue ethics? It's pretty easy to point your finger at somebody else's moral theory and criticize it, but pretty difficult to create and defend your own.
@@joshuachristensen4009 I'll go with the Divine Command theory. One can have so much more critical fun with that approach. 😉
According to the Mormon church, the true church ceased to exist after the death of the apostles. But also according to the Mormon church the apostle John never died and is in fact still roaming this earth according to section 7 of Doctrines and Covenants. But St John is not currently an apostle in the Mormon church. Over the past 2000 years the disciple whom Jesus loved never saw fit to join the Mormon church lol… I will convert to Mormonism as soon as he does.
He doesn’t need to convert, he was presumably baptized back around 0 AD, why would he need to do so again?
@@benjaminvandenberghe9726 So once I am baptized I don't need to go to the temple and pay tithing? Why am I finding this out just now?
@@johnrowley310 you never had to. it was always an elective choice.
I love a good fiction.
Two things to comment,
1. Jerusalem was a walled City as mentioned at the beginning of the video. There is no way for traitors to enter the City four or five times without being spotted at the gates and be charged with treason and murder, specially after returning days later to get spouses. Not even plausible.
2. You are telling me Lehi, his wife and four guys packed and walked just about 8 days without pitching tents?
Then the 4 guys came back and forth at least two times and when finally returned to Lehi, they even brought more women and Children with them to travel for 8 days to Lehi’s camp? I personally don’t think so.
Thanks for sharing though, very interesting!
They were residents of Jerusalem, why wouldn't they be able to enter the city? Why would guards stop citizens of Israel from entering and leaving the city. Nice try, but the logic is not great. So that is a better argument than a river flowing into the read sea being a three days journey from Jerusalem actually being there?
Really easy for Joseph to have looked at a map.
2:35
Maybe he could have Google it? Oh, yeah. That technology was bot available, yet. Also, people didn't have access to maps from other countries with full explanations of topography and other information. Without ever going there and even if he visited there once or a few times, how would he be so accurate?
Fair question, I would urge You to investigate by yourself and find out, if it could’ve been possible for him to get that information from a different source. Thanks!
Did you like not watch the video, many of these places were not on any map. Like Khor Khorphot and Valley of lemuel. Geeze, its like people refuse to engage the evidence , which just shows you can't come up with a good argument against the video.
He was an illiterate man, and two wouldn’t have that accurate world maps in his area
Give credit to the book, “View of the Hebrews”. And of course, give credit to the reproduction, “The Book of Mormon”.
"Some people will find fault no matter what you do. You have to accept the fact that not everyone is going to accept you. Not everyone is going to like you or understand you. If you’re going to reach your highest potential, you have to be okay with not being accepted by everyone. If you want everybody to like you, then you’ll get stuck."
Don't forget the first book of Napoleon :) oh and also Sidney Rigdon. where would the church be without the Doctrines of Rigdon?
Have you read "View of the Hebrews"? It's nothing like the Book of Mormon. Judging by your comment, you probably haven't read either one cover to cover.
@@strjfs It's similar in the language style and the theme. But no the actual book is a bit different and not as interesting. In context, the belief that the Native Americans were decedent of the Hebrews was very popular at the time of Joseph Smith, This is also backed up by the early Spanish in regards to their observations of Native culture they often pointed out similarities but you can do this with most civilisations if that is the conclusion that you want. The thing is that the Native American culture is so different than what is in the Book of Mormon. Moroni was around in at least 400AD and there is not much time in between 400AD and the 1400's when Columbus came, yet everyone seems to have forgotten the Nephites. With a civilization as big and important as the Nephites there would be some kind of evidence left. To say that it all just vanished is pretty ignorant of how people leave evidence of their civilization.
The Nephites and the Lamenites used steel for tools and weapons of war, and for that technology to suddenly vanish is really perplexing. there are many more examples. I do not think that Joseph had any inclination that science and Archaeology would advance so much as to be able to pick out any untruths in his work.
Craig Johnson have you ever read view of the Hebrews? Didn't think so.