I still recall my old Austin A30 - a great car! Accelerating from a stop across an intersection I easily had time, between first and second, to roll a cigarette.
We're well into the realms of performance where paper stats mean nothing, quality of driving and handling characteristics is everything now. 0-60 in 2.5s feels no more impressive than it does at 3s, it hurts the same, lol. Time to dial back the figures and focus on making EVs as light as possible and bring from feeling back into the steering, pedals & suspension.
"and bring from feeling back into the steering, pedals & suspension." I literally want these taken away - I want to get into a luxurious small room, tell it where I am going and read a book or watch a movie - I dont want to have to even touch a f-king button Driving stopped being fun at around the 1 million Km point...
@@Nemoticon I used to have a chauffeur until I gave up my business... Honestly, I use public transport now, we have an amazing service where i live and I just use that [Not the UK obviously]. The roads are way too packed with cars, there are speed cameras every 1km. The thing that totally killed driving for me was the average speed over distance system they put in Nottingham, I used to have to drive there every day and it made my life total misery. Driving in the 1980's was fun. Driving in 2022 is unbelievably expensive and hyper-stressful. I might get a Nobe or an Aptera - the electric 3-wheelers. The Nobe is totally retro and the Aptera is super futuristic. You would like them - super light weight and fast.
Most don’t care what a vehicle does on a track, they didn’t buy a track car, they bought a road car. Not many drivers have ever gone 162 mph in a car so that’s a complete moot point. EV’s with a range over 300 mile is adequate for most, 6 hours in a car is more than I can handle without at least one break to stretch and use the facilities. Comparing six figure cars is another moot point due to the vast majority of vehicles both electric and ICE sold are in the five figure range.
ICE cars also have instant torque when you dump the clutch. I think what matters more is that electric power is incredibly easy to modulate (especially with multiple motors driving all four wheels) compared to controlling clutches, injection, ignition timing and differentials accurately and quickly
Traction control isn’t physical anymore. It’s just software. Kinda dumb statement I made but in terms of evs if you remove brake torque vectoring it’s about controlling what motors moves fastest. Tesla made their car faster through a software update. How? Idk And actually evs go faster if there are less wires because electricity goes the speed of light if I’m not wrong
@@bowez9 instant torque in an ICE car can only be achieved by dumping the clutch. The time from not torque to full torque in an electric motor is as sort as 1ms. That would be about 30deg of rotation at 5000rpm. An electric motor can go from nothing to full torque in less time it takes for the air in an ICE to go from the throttle valve to the inside of the cylinder at peak power revs. Also the traction control response is so much faster that it can keep the wheels at the optimum slip with no torque pulses to mess the slip.
@@franciscoshi1968 obviously sir you are not familiar withe power curves of the engines I listed, peak torque is off idle. As for traction control that is not an EV/ICE issue. Most electrical motors of any real power have soft starters so the instant torque you speak of doesn't exsist.
@@bowez9 even if the torque is off idle it still takes time for the Ir to get from the throttle valve to the top dead center. So at 1000 rpm the minimum possible time an ICE can go from no torque to full torque is 1 turn. (The piston has to go down and then up before it can ignite the fuel and that is assuming the throttle valve is at the inlet valves) that is 60ms. That is an eternity for an electric motor. When you add the time it takes for the throttle to open and the air to move from the throttle body thru the intake manifold and into the engine you are looking at 1/2 second before you get full torque. That is very far from instantaneous. Even dumping the clutch on an ICE engine is slower than an electric motor making full torque. The clutch takes time to close and apply pressure and for the friction material to grip. This is also very slow compared to an electric motor. Traction control makes a difference. The more accurately you can control wheel slip the faster the car can accelerate. And electric motor is perfectly smooth. There are no torque pulses. There is a video that explains this very well. It is the reason for the engine firing sequence in an R1 engine. The pulses from the motor upset the grip which makes the R1 faster in some cases just because the torque pulses going to the tyre. Finally soft starters are a dirt cheap method of starting electric motors so the instant torque does not damage industrial machinery. In an electric car the transmission is built to be able to take the maximum torque of the motor so you can apply full torque instantly. The only thing soft starters do is limit the torque so the motor will not damage the load or burn out the motor because there is no torque control. The only reason EVs slow the motor response is so that the car feels smoother under normal conditions.
CSR2 just added taycan as their first ever electric car. Now I understand that 2 gears are a lot more interesting for a half mile racing game based on upgrades and tuning than any single-gear-car like tesla. Plus there are already parts for porsche cars in the game.
now they got rimac nevera, lotus evija (which i have) the pride taycan, the audi rs e tron gt, the ford mach-e gt performance, the lamborghini terzo millenio, the hyundai ioniq 5 n, the mazda furai etc
Top speed doesn't make a sports car, the main thing is having to change gears. Having a single gear and a high top speed would get boring really quickly. Plus in Australia the top road speed is 110kph.
Yeah its a showoff stat. People throw it around to brag about how fast teslas are, but unless all you do is drag race off traffic lights then it doesnt mean shit
Keep championing ICE vehicles from the gas stations. 😂 I’ll just charge my car up.. smoke you.. then laugh when I see you pay $$$ at a gas station .. Keep bent stubborn and old and valuing things because of tradition. The world is going to pass you by
Performance cars make up less than 10% of new car sales, and supercars much less, under 1%. Until EVs can match them in weight, the market for ICE sports cars will remain because of their negligible impact on the environment.
THIS. You're one of the few who can see sense. But not just weight. It's driver involvement i.e. sound and gears and vibration. EVs can never match that. They are always more dull and joyless.
The market for ice sport cars might end even before that. Ford no longer sells Focus RS in Europe for example, the emission standards killed it. But there is more to the issue. If car manufacturers stop producing common ice cars, there won't be any backbone for the development of the sport car and so they will become much more expensive to design and build and so unprofitable. There is also a matter of gasoline, if all the normal cars are electric, you won't just buy fuel at fuel station as they will be gone, so you will have to buy it in specialty shops and it will cost a lot and will be a chore. Granted that will probably happen much later than an advent of a light electric sports car, but still there are many more factors that can accelerate the demise of the sport ice car unrelated to the direct electric competition.
@@Hello_there_obi there are many things that you can do in an electric drivetrain that you can not do in an ICE drivetrain that makes EVs fun to drive. There is an Imiev (an underpowered bubble car that couldn't possibly be be considered sporty) with a sports one pedal driving mode. It is so much fun to drive that everyone that drives it can't help themselves drive it like a normal person. It is just too hard to drive it slow.
@@franciscoshi1968 weight kills the nimbleness and joy of thrashing a car around a racetrack. Straight-line speed alone means little in circuit racing. EVs have a long way to go to compete with modern sports cars in the corners.
@@JoeBlo2 the car I am taking about is slow. It is underpowered. I has pitiful straight line acceleration it is a tall narrow bubble kei car and it is so much more fun to drive than if it was petrol. I guess you wouldn't know until you drive it. The same behavior on a more powerful car with better dynamics would be so much better. You can throw it into a corner and use the regen braking to get the back to slide (like a hand brake turn) get it sideways then quickly floor it to get the wheels spinning. Unfortunately it can only do that on a wet road because it is underpowered. It is definitely more fun than having to shift, clutch and hand brake clutch ... and the power is so smooth out of the corner you can feel the wheels starting to slip and can keep it just at the right point. If this car was lower, had a motor three times the power and some fatter tyres it would be amazing.
@@THESLlCK I mean, yeah, good point. Although, if you drive almost exclusively in the city, the hybrid is still better than diesel, and if you have to you can still do a road trip without any range anxiety
I don't give a dime those old supercars are iconic filled with soul and marvelous engines plus most of those supercars are way better looking than new ev
I'm waiting on delivery of an MG EP EV (sold in Europe as the MG5 SW EV), it's relatively tame at 160hp and a 0-100km/h of 8 seconds , but for a "cheap" car (even compared to a gasoline-powered equivalent), that's not half bad!
supercars feel better. i get more fun driving 60 mph in my Porsche with howling flat six noise and style than driving at 80 mph in Model 3. my dream car would be R8 V10+ just can't beat the sheer driving pleasure of it.
Nah slow cars feel even more fun, I get even more fun attempting to get to 120km/hour in my Honda s660 driving with more noise with less sound insulation and more style in a JDM than i ever felt even in a fat and heavy porsche. My dream car would be a suzuki cappucino cos you can't beat a mini miata for the sheer driving pleasure of driving in twisty touge mountains.
@@KAZ8264 You can simulate the sound and 'feel' of anything, electronically. Nobody does it because when you can toggle switch all that stuff, nobody toggles it back to ICE after the novelty has worn off.
The model S plaid as been recorded going 216 mph with a unlocked software, and the stock car (for now, until they get better tyres) goes to 175 mph and not 162 like you said.
And how often do you need to go faster than 75 mph? Most cars spend almost all of the time going zero MPH, and when they're not sitting, moving faster than 75 MPH can cost you thousands of dollars and your license. As we learned here in Vegas recently, selling cars that go ridiculously fast to any moron with a lot of money is really dangerous for themselves and everyone around them. Scott spent years learning how to drive very fast with no margin for error and more years learning how to do it slightly better than other drivers on a dedicated track in a controlled event once in awhile, and still drivers are killed and maimed.
I reckon you must be spot on. There's a market in Tesla powertrain swaps to classic cars. Either Tesla sells these units (????) or there's a lot being written off.
I'm in traffic all the time which cruises at 85; no problem. We have a few 75mph speed limits. I imagine nobody wants any car so powerless it can't exceed 85.
1:14 M4 need 2.5" from 80 to 120 km/h (50-74 mph) and i3S (+14hp) 4.3", so its not even close from the 0,6" difference that you said. ICE cars has instant 100% torque too using clutch/launch control so it cant be the reason.
Yeah, very few ICE vehicles can keep up with a Tesla Model S Plaid even at higher speeds. Okay, sure, it's limited to ~160 MPH, but the notion that EVs taper off above normal highway speeds is outdated thanks to the Plaid's new motors.
1:37 213 brake horsepower and does 0-60 in 6.7s and calls it better than most hot hatches, well even my dad's fiesta st has 200 bhp and does it in 6.5s lol.
Most performance cars are limited to 240kph and places like Australia would consider speeds of 160 kph (100mph) as outrages and you lose your licence at 140 kph even on motorways with a relatively low speed limit of 110kph so a 160 kph speed limited car is not too much of a problem in the real world if you can get there in five seconds.
Here in the Uk if you’re caught doing 100mph or above on the motorway banned no matter what. The same with drink driving, if you’re over 35 micrograms of alcohol when you’re tested banned no matter what.
Get with the program DM. Long distance trips in my model 3 are superior to my previous ICE vehicles in every way. A 10 minute stop to travel 600 km is no different than with my old cars. Still need to stop for a coffee and pee.
I believe electric sports car enthusiasts prefer them over petrol sports cars because they are much easier to drive fast and require much less skill. I believe people who do not completely understand how to drive a manual, how to rev match, heel and toe, counter steering, and have little to no experience or interest stacking and improving your lap time at a race track, but instead prefer driving straight with no steering imput and only pushing down on your right leg for a few seconds and then releasing your leg before it gets too scary; then an electric one gear straight line no-apex driving low skill car is the preferred choice.
It us much more fun to drive a car that can never be in the wrong gear. It is always on the power band and responds fast enough to do a hand brake turn with one foot and has accelerator control so perfect with no lag whatsoever that power slides are child's play.
04:26 It would, but at very long time ig, since most manufacturer still experimenting for sustainable 10min charging every 200 miles for comfy roadtrip
A lot of EV motors for the road are designed to be as small and light as possible and for their efficiency range to be peaked around freeway speeds. Because of this reason, many EVs for the road have very flat torque curves that maintain peak torque but once the peak power region is reached (field weakening region) the torque cruve doesn't follow the 1/x style curve like expected. This is becuase in this region the rotor is much hotter and the stator has more losses that it can't absorb by just adding more power. To have a motor that acts more like a performance car You'd have to design a motor for a continuous high power output. This means more rotor magnet pairs and more voltage and more cooling to keep performance at maximum. The other thing to do is use more efficient inverters that can detect what's happening with the motor and adjust the AC parameters to continuously get better performance out of it. These motors are very expensive though. A decent track centric motor and inverter will set you back $30k compared to a used Leaf motor, leaf inverter, and open inverter kit which will run you about $3k for a low milage good condition motor with tech support as well.
I think you can use the permanent (neodymium) magnet em drive to power a smaller alternator inside its outer ring, and have an almost self driving car, the fuel is whatever is used as a conductor or propellant such as mercury, and the magnetic charge of the magnets. That way it wouldn't need charging, just maintenence. The alternator part would only work when needed, and it should still run without an electric charge, as long as the magnets produce opposite charge of the fuel or conductor, then without electric current it should still work, just not as well. To stop the motor or slow it, you'd just alter the direction of the magnetic plates in the motor, until the conductor is stationary, or reversed. An AI program should be written to power the Magnet Drive, as there is a huge ammount of different ways it can be configured, with different fuel sources. In an aircraft, it would be a stand alone job just to make sure the magnetic drive is working the best way.
Its all about energy density. Petrol is 8760Wh/L. So a 50L tank holds ~438000Wh = 438kWh of potential energy. And weights about 40kg (petrol is lighter than water). Lets take a modern powertrain with 30% efficiency. 438*0.3=131.4kWh of usable energy to the wheels. On the EV side. Li-Ion battery cells have an energy desity in the range of 100-265Wh/Kg. From very old ones on the low side to high cobalt on the high side. Lets take the high side. A 500kg cell array would have an energy density of 132.5kWh. This is as much as the net energy of the ICE car after its losses. If we assume a 90% efficiency for the EV, we have 119.25kWh of usable energy to the wheels. But the 500kg weight is only the li-ion cell. So lets make a ballpark estimation that the whole battery pack is 550kg. So. In order to just come equall to a modern ICE petrol, you need at least half a ton of batteries, and lug them around all the time. And thats not gonna happen soon on a 20k€ hatchback, or a 15k€ supermini. There is no coming around the fat elephant in the room. The energy density of Li-Ion batteries might be the best we have in terms of batteries, but is a far cry compared to liquid fuels. Thats why im saying that EVs wont make sense (unless you can charge at home) until the offer 150+kWh batteries at the same price as a small ICE hatchback (~20-30k€).
It's good to hear that the electric cars are accelerating so quickly. It would be good to hear how the electric cars can tow a small trailer, a small caravan or a trailer sailer. In Australia the speed limits are are mostly if not entirely go up to 110 klm. per hour. The knowledge that the latest s model can top 160 or 200 miles an hour academic if the average Jo or Josephine will never drive at these speeds. I only point this out because Australia's ludite Pollies hate evs. If they're ever going to take their collective heads out of their collective arses evs will need to be explained in how well the run, tow a trailer and handle the groceries and pick up the children from school.
thats true, but entirely misses the point of Driven Media, centered around motorsport. For this sort of information, there are loads of channels out their but this one is purely about 99th percentile performance
That doesn't explain it. Real answer to "why" is, there is no real penalty in putting a more powerful electric motor to a car (to a point, of course). Triple the power, and car will cost nearly the same, have the exact same range or fuel economy, will weigh maybe 20kgs heavier and motor will still occupy a tiny space relative to batteries or luggage space etc.. Because increasing power is essentially adding more coiled wires to the motor and more coolant to cope with extra temps. So why not do it?
@@derekmaxwell8164 yeah , because desposing or "recycling" 1 ton of lithium is a very task to do . If everyone in the world had electric cars we wouldn't even be able to provide the necessary materials to build them . They're just shitty and inefficient for now at least . Unless you are implying that everyone has 50+ k euros /dollars to buy brand new electric cars. It just ain't happening for at least 2-3 decades.
@@jimjimmy3131 they are already achieving quite competitive prices for recycled battery materials and we are only at the beginning of the road, so I think your fears are unfounded
Tesla's motor already spins at 20kRPM and adding more power would make it spin even faster (I assume you don't want to change gearing if you are talking about tripling the power of the motors) which is a non trivial engineering task to control it. There is also the issue of batteries, they need to be able to give out all the needed power and so you'd need to triple their power output without degrading them really fast if you want to tripple the motors' power and it's not doable at this moment.
Gears are really new on electric cars, and I can expect the same way it happened with ICE cars gaining ratios up from 3 to 4 to nowadays even 10 gears to happen with Electric Cars, imagine a tiny little city EV using the same power in narrow streets as it would on the Autobahn with multiple ratios to cope with the speed
The torque curve of an electric motor is going to make 3-4 ratios seem kinda silly. The Porsche only needs multiple ratios at speeds WAY beyond what you can legally drive in most places.
It's still not about the power. It's not even about the range. EVs are terrible when it comes to "refuelling". That's the single most important factor that counts against them. I have two cars - one is a diesel engined suv with a 70 or so liter tank. I refill the tank every month or so. The other one is a Miata which has a 35 (or 45; i don't remember) liter tank which I refill every few days or so - I drive the Miata way more often ;-) But I don't have to make plans when, where and how to refill. I just go to the station when the fuel level drops around 1/4, sit there for 3-5 minutes or so and I'm back on the road. Try that with EV. I'm not even touching the case of long journeys, especially during "popular" times. Tnat's the problem with EVs. I used to drive a car which had 21 litre tank which lasted for some 300 kilometers if you wanted to bleed it dry. In reality you refilled every 200km or so. But still it wasn't that much of a problem because it could have been refilled easily at any time.
@@jamesengland7461 Oh, how I love this faulty argument. Firstly, only a small part of society lives in places which could allow you to plug the car in for the night. Secondly, the grid might be able to support additional load as long as there is a small number of loading cards, but will fail if the number rises significantly. And thirdly - it still doesn't solve the problem. It only masks a single aspect of it. Oh, and we didn't even went into the territory of commercial vehicles. And military ones. And construction machines. Oh, and please tell those Ukrainian refuges which took their cars to the border that they would be happy to sit for a few hours in the middle of their run and wait for the battery to load. Sorry, you can't - as I wrote before- chat physics. Batteries are way behind liquid field in terms of energy density and transfer speed. And rising transfer speed means losses and higher risks because you need ridiculous currents. You can't cheat physics.
@@SpadajSpadaj over 65% of American families own their own homes, and millions more rent homes. Most of them could easily have a home charger installed. EVs would work for them. They don't have to work for every single driver on the planet. EVs are a great and fully viable option, and don't ever have to be the only way. A reasonable discussion about this new means of transportation can be had.
@@jamesengland7461 Oh, the american-centric argument. Imagine that not all people in the world live in US. And even of those people I suppose many households own and regularily use two or more cars - that means twice the needed power. Are you sure that american power grid will support such load? Typical monthly energy use is around 900kWh per month. Now imagine that every home charges one car every night. One thing is that the power load on the grid rises as a whole but another thing is that if everyone does it at the same time, you get a spike across the whole grid whereas normally the load is more uniform. You're cherrypicking. And I'm not saying that EVs as such are bad or that they are not useful for anyone - my neighbours have two BEVs (Nissan Note and some small Citroen) and it seems to work pretty well for them. I'm only saying that EVs propaganda happily ignores (or dismisses as "not important") some serious issues with electromobility. Oh, and let's imagine that I even own a car with a several hundred km range. And I use it to drive to my family for a weekend. They live some 350kms away. I might even be able to reach them using the charge I "loaded" at home. What now? Their wallbox(es) are occupied because they are charging their own cars. So I should have an EV for driving locally and a ICE-powered car for longer trips? Kinda expensive. If I wanted two cars I'd have a daily car and a fun car. Oh, wait... Hybrid vehicles are relatively effective and are a generally nice idea. They have one downside though - the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated and thus more expensive than purely ICE-based car. Again - I admit that the electric motors are a great thing (although the "whistling" of the inverters used for controlling them is annoying like hell). It's the energy storage and transfer element is lacking. We've known electric cars for almost as long as we've known the car itself. It's no accident that ICE-powered cars prevailed for so long. Yes, the batteries came a long way but there's still a long way to go. And we didn't even touch the safety of electric cars - maybe the BEVs do not get on fire as often as you'd imagine by reading the news but if they do we have no way of extinguishing them whereas we know pretty well what to do with gasoline/diesel fueled ones. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw limited accessibility to underground garages and the like because of that. So it's not all that easy. I am all for a _reasonable_ discussion but I'm against the propaganda that's been going on for last few years. Oh, and a great case of "electric mobility" I saw were electric busses which during winter used liquid fuel combustion based unit for heating. So the bus was indeed powered by battery and electric motors but needed to burn liquid fuel (I don't remember if it was gasoline or diesel) to keep the temperature up. Oh, and in the end it turned out that in many cases EV buses' running costs were higher than ICE-based. So, you know, it's not that simple.
@@SpadajSpadaj no, I was not using an American- centric argument. You just want to look for an argument. I was simply using an example to indicate that lots of Americans could charge an EV at home. I also mentioned that EVs are an option, not the only way. I have nothing to do with whatever propaganda you've seen; nor do I have anything to do with the stupid examples you're digging up. I'll leave it with you.
I can afford gas still, barely thanks to Brandon, but not a Tesla. I have nothing against EVs. I may even get one for a daily driver, but I get tired of the "faster than a Ferrari" crap. Sure it's true, but so us the "slower than a Yugo over 1,200 miles". Like everything, the zealots ruin everything.
OK...but how about Chicago to Denver with reasonable breaks for driver + occupants? Put in some realistic bathroom stops (they always take longer than the actual time of fuelling the car) and they both end up about the same, constrained by safe speed limits in traffic. Also, I'd sure rather spend 20 hours in my Model Y than a Yugo...especially with Autopilot on the freeway!
They advertise models s plaid to be capable of doing 200mph pending some changes to the car (can't be drastic, as there are cars already out that should be able to get this upgrade) and it still has only single gear, so I think the era of 200mph BEVs is just around the corner.
@@seasonedchick3n that car has 6 gears. Plaid does 200 in 1 gear. If you want to go faster just add another gear. It’s just difficult because the plaid motor spins at 20000+ rpm. The tips of the motor spin faster than the speed of sound And yes electric does need cooling. The rimac has a radiator so saying evs don’t need cooling is dumb. If something dumps loads of power into something it makes heat
@@jackrussell7058 ok, not many then. I guess if they ignore their mandatory break after 5.5 and 8 hours they might keep up with a Mercedes’ EQS that has 700km range and can recharge in less than an hour on a rapid charge station.
@@MeTube3 lack of infrastructure at loading points and rural areas, Sub optimal charge rates leave a very long way to go. I really hope it all improves.
@L W 300 range is pathetic. It's a penalty for most. Americans hate being told how they should be happy with limitations put on their lives, told how far they should like to drive, told how long they should like to wait around for a charge, told how they should like paying stupid prices for gas and electric, told how they should get rid of their combustion engines and buy stupid high cost electrics, told how they should quit their country living and cram themselves into a stupid city, told how they should quit eating so much meat, told they should like eating bugs and weeds, told how we should like to be hooked up to A.I. and monitored 24/7, told what we should stick in our blood. No. 300 mile range is crap. Several hours to charge is crap. 4800-6000 pound vehicles are crap. 60 thousand dollars to get around in an electric box is crap. Poking around highways at pathetic 1970's speeds is crap.
Hatchbacks are also faster than old super cars, but thats because tech has improved and the compound in tires is better, but they arent really faster, they can just have more sharp turns because of the new tires, brakes, and suspension
my humble little leaf off the line is quicker than my old 5 second sports car. Perfect for city driving, 70-100 is where its slow, low gearing and big torque :)
I thought u would go more into detail about how evs went from being weak slow toy car type of cars to what they are today in a matter of a decade or so. Maybe there was a break through in certain part of ev technology ?
Tesla designed a new electric motor that changed the magnetic fields somehow. I don't remember the specifics, but Sandy Monroe explained it on his channel.
I have an ebike with a central motor that drives through the 10 speed gears. Having spoken to people who use hub drives with no gears it seems that I have a range of between 2 and 10 times what they get. I have always been puzzled by electric cars lack of gears when range is such a massive problem. Why don't they fit, perhaps a 100hp motor and a gearbox to spin out the range? It can't be to keep the cost down because they all cost a lot.
I completely agree, the only response I've ever gotten when asking has been efficiency and complexity. Basically the argument is having those 1, 2, or 4 extra gears is enough extra weight and friction to nullify the effect of the motor's greater efficiency at low rpms. I don't really see how a two speed transmission could do that, but apparently it's true.
If you think about your e-bike example a bit more, the much flatter torque curve of an electric motor is why you can even consider a hub motor on an e-bike. Yes, it has limitations compared to a mid-drive bike (i.e. there still is a torque curve), but when you have something like a Tesla AWD with different gear ratios to different motors on the front and rear axles, adding in a gearbox with multiple ratios just doesn't pay off at the speeds one ends up driving on open roads.
They don’t actually, look up the statistics to verify this claim (or if you don’t want to tell me to and I’ll get you a link, but I don’t want you to think I’m cherry picking so better to do yourself)
@@sebastianjuppscharwachter9022 Or ask Chris Harris about the Alpine A110 he tested on Top Gear around the same time. Hammond had to smash the Rimac into little peices to get it to catch fire some time later. The Alpine managed it all by itself, whilst it was still being driven.
A GR Yaris is both more powerful and lighter than a Mercedes SL 300 Gullwing. One was a supercar trying to murder the driver, the other is a grocery getter on meth...anol. The difference between them is... 60, 70 years?
Should change the title, "Why normal ev faster than hypercar" :D And to trigger rich & braggy people you can make future content like, "What's hyper and super about hypercar and supercar other than their ridiculous price and marketing tactics" :D Just kidding. Always great content from you. Thanks
It’s entertaining (and a bit frustrating) watching petrol heads downplay 0-60 just because gas cars are getting destroyed. Lol EVs are not incapable of higher top speeds. It’s just the ones produced today are passenger vehicles, which cannot legally exceed 80 mph in pretty much every country except Germany on the Autobahn. So when 99% of driving is < 80 mph, 0-60 is 100% more important than top speed. But as the video explained, if a car company, like Porsche for example, decides to make an actual race car with electric motors and a more complex transmission, gas cars will stand no chance. Engines are not what’s driving top speed. Transmission does that. Tesla is achieving 162 top speed on a single gear transmission. What happens when you give a Tesla a 6-gear paddle shifter like it’s ICE counterpart? Yeah, RIP gas cars.
Challenged a Tesla Plaid with my Superbike 🙈, 0 to whatever no Chance, only 100-250 i had a Chance... 😂 Since this me and my wife have electric Cars, and i wait for the first Suzuki electric motorcycle 😁
Ehh, you're again mixing the terms "fast", "quick across the course", "best accelerating" and the like. Electric cars are indeed quick-accelerating due to the nature of the electric engine and the ability to provide almost constant torque across the whole useful rev range from the full stop. The production electric cars are limited by the characteristics of the engine - whereas ICE-powered cat typically reaches its top power with its top speed (it's limited by engine power - it doesn't generate enough force to keep accelerating), typical electric car is limited by rev range of the engine - after certain threshold the torque starts declining rapidly and you can't use the full power of the engine due to lack of the gearbox which would allow you to "trade" torque for revs. If you fitted the electric car with a proper gearbox, the power would be the single most important factor (along with the body shape but I assume they are similar) determining top speed. You can't cheat physics.
Go look at power curves for a Tesla 3 and, say, fiesta 1.0 100hp. Tesla instant torque and hits max power instantly, then trails off.... eventually. Ford, peak twist has vanished by the time you get to max power. It can't ever get there, so you may as well change up a gear. The best bit is cruising, doing 1500rpm, the fiesta is pulling a whopping 30hp. Responsive? Err, no. Ps, I adore my fiesta
If they are faster or not sort of depends on the race / conditions. Still think even an older 1980s cheapo car will beat the highest end Tesla in a simple cross country race, even in an electrified country like Norway. Even if you go at the speed limits, the electric car will lose, and it will lose by hours, not minutes or seconds. The problem is that the old econobox will do a fuel stop in 5-10 minutes at worst, while an electric car will have to stay put for 30-45 minutes, and that is if you are lucky enough to have a working charger or one that is fast. Even more so as the legal stuff and deals regarding battery swap architecture isn't fleshed out or set up at this point.
EV VW Beetles are exactly that. Drop the boxer 4-banger, add a "washing machine motor" with 30HP, a heck load of batteries, and take advantage of the original 4-speed transmission even to reverse the car, no need to an electrical switch to reverse the motor itself. I heard it is a riot to drive, and perfect as a teaching tool, since you can completely stop the car and it won't "stall", and zip away on any gear.
@@lfla0179 Id plan to do that to my Civic with a single tesla or lucid motor replacing the B series under the hood and replacing the fuel tanks with LI-Ion batteries and also adding some under the floors if it works
@@weesamexpress6730 The weight of the batteries would crush the Honda's suspension. The boundary is the weight, any other consideration excluded. Provided the suspension is beefed up, it would behave like an armored vehicle.
People buy cars for which is faster from 0-60??svrew the leaf, tesla, I want to enjoy driving... Listen to the engine...not buy something to show I'm a better human than the others...
Petrolheads when buying macs: yeah it's more powerful, BUT I hate how the m1 chip doesn't get hot and make all sorts of fan noise. Is anyone else a fan of when macs used intel and radeon? back then fan noise showed off how powerful your laptops were! WE COULD GO FROM FULL TO EMPTY BATTERY IN LESS THAN 2 HOURS!
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
I still recall my old Austin A30 - a great car! Accelerating from a stop across an intersection I easily had time, between first and second, to roll a cigarette.
A ciggy, or a spliff ?
It's all in the mind
We're well into the realms of performance where paper stats mean nothing, quality of driving and handling characteristics is everything now. 0-60 in 2.5s feels no more impressive than it does at 3s, it hurts the same, lol. Time to dial back the figures and focus on making EVs as light as possible and bring from feeling back into the steering, pedals & suspension.
Says a guy who's never even driven a fast EV
@@cyumadbrosummit3534 I have and he's right
"and bring from feeling back into the steering, pedals & suspension." I literally want these taken away - I want to get into a luxurious small room, tell it where I am going and read a book or watch a movie - I dont want to have to even touch a f-king button
Driving stopped being fun at around the 1 million Km point...
@@piccalillipit9211 Then cars and drivnig isn't for you, lol. Just get a cheffuer.
@@Nemoticon I used to have a chauffeur until I gave up my business... Honestly, I use public transport now, we have an amazing service where i live and I just use that [Not the UK obviously]. The roads are way too packed with cars, there are speed cameras every 1km. The thing that totally killed driving for me was the average speed over distance system they put in Nottingham, I used to have to drive there every day and it made my life total misery.
Driving in the 1980's was fun. Driving in 2022 is unbelievably expensive and hyper-stressful.
I might get a Nobe or an Aptera - the electric 3-wheelers. The Nobe is totally retro and the Aptera is super futuristic. You would like them - super light weight and fast.
Top speed matters for bragging only (at least on the road). Is 160mph not enough, even on a track?
Most don’t care what a vehicle does on a track, they didn’t buy a track car, they bought a road car. Not many drivers have ever gone 162 mph in a car so that’s a complete moot point. EV’s with a range over 300 mile is adequate for most, 6 hours in a car is more than I can handle without at least one break to stretch and use the facilities. Comparing six figure cars is another moot point due to the vast majority of vehicles both electric and ICE sold are in the five figure range.
Yeah, it's kinda silly to criticize a production EV for being designed and geared for the speeds one can legally drive on public roads.
ICE cars also have instant torque when you dump the clutch.
I think what matters more is that electric power is incredibly easy to modulate (especially with multiple motors driving all four wheels) compared to controlling clutches, injection, ignition timing and differentials accurately and quickly
My 1990 F150 with a 300CID I6 has instant torque and my 93 Thunderbird SC is traction limited off the line but also is instant torque.
Traction control isn’t physical anymore. It’s just software. Kinda dumb statement I made but in terms of evs if you remove brake torque vectoring it’s about controlling what motors moves fastest. Tesla made their car faster through a software update. How? Idk
And actually evs go faster if there are less wires because electricity goes the speed of light if I’m not wrong
@@bowez9 instant torque in an ICE car can only be achieved by dumping the clutch. The time from not torque to full torque in an electric motor is as sort as 1ms. That would be about 30deg of rotation at 5000rpm. An electric motor can go from nothing to full torque in less time it takes for the air in an ICE to go from the throttle valve to the inside of the cylinder at peak power revs.
Also the traction control response is so much faster that it can keep the wheels at the optimum slip with no torque pulses to mess the slip.
@@franciscoshi1968 obviously sir you are not familiar withe power curves of the engines I listed, peak torque is off idle.
As for traction control that is not an EV/ICE issue.
Most electrical motors of any real power have soft starters so the instant torque you speak of doesn't exsist.
@@bowez9 even if the torque is off idle it still takes time for the Ir to get from the throttle valve to the top dead center. So at 1000 rpm the minimum possible time an ICE can go from no torque to full torque is 1 turn. (The piston has to go down and then up before it can ignite the fuel and that is assuming the throttle valve is at the inlet valves) that is 60ms. That is an eternity for an electric motor. When you add the time it takes for the throttle to open and the air to move from the throttle body thru the intake manifold and into the engine you are looking at 1/2 second before you get full torque. That is very far from instantaneous. Even dumping the clutch on an ICE engine is slower than an electric motor making full torque. The clutch takes time to close and apply pressure and for the friction material to grip. This is also very slow compared to an electric motor.
Traction control makes a difference. The more accurately you can control wheel slip the faster the car can accelerate. And electric motor is perfectly smooth. There are no torque pulses. There is a video that explains this very well. It is the reason for the engine firing sequence in an R1 engine. The pulses from the motor upset the grip which makes the R1 faster in some cases just because the torque pulses going to the tyre.
Finally soft starters are a dirt cheap method of starting electric motors so the instant torque does not damage industrial machinery. In an electric car the transmission is built to be able to take the maximum torque of the motor so you can apply full torque instantly. The only thing soft starters do is limit the torque so the motor will not damage the load or burn out the motor because there is no torque control. The only reason EVs slow the motor response is so that the car feels smoother under normal conditions.
CSR2 just added taycan as their first ever electric car. Now I understand that 2 gears are a lot more interesting for a half mile racing game based on upgrades and tuning than any single-gear-car like tesla. Plus there are already parts for porsche cars in the game.
They did!! When?
@@NICKCAMP04 this season its the club car. The parts will be renamed to battery invertor etc.
Interestingly enough Rimac Nevera is also only single gear, and describes 2 speed gearbox as a crutch for EV motors.
now they got rimac nevera, lotus evija (which i have) the pride taycan, the audi rs e tron gt, the ford mach-e gt performance, the lamborghini terzo millenio, the hyundai ioniq 5 n, the mazda furai etc
Top speed doesn't make a sports car, the main thing is having to change gears. Having a single gear and a high top speed would get boring really quickly. Plus in Australia the top road speed is 110kph.
lol Australia
There’s some footage of a model S Plaid with active aero on the nurburgring so Elon isn’t lying
4:10 Let me fix that real quick: "Instead, the're meant for short *200 miles* city journeys."
You gotta love them 200 miles wide mega cities ;)
0-60 is about as meaningful as comparing supercars to drag cars in a drag race.
Yeah its a showoff stat. People throw it around to brag about how fast teslas are, but unless all you do is drag race off traffic lights then it doesnt mean shit
Yeah it's like saying an iphone is better than a pc because it boots up much quicker
Keep championing ICE vehicles from the gas stations. 😂
I’ll just charge my car up.. smoke you.. then laugh when I see you pay $$$ at a gas station ..
Keep bent stubborn and old and valuing things because of tradition.
The world is going to pass you by
Performance cars make up less than 10% of new car sales, and supercars much less, under 1%. Until EVs can match them in weight, the market for ICE sports cars will remain because of their negligible impact on the environment.
THIS. You're one of the few who can see sense. But not just weight. It's driver involvement i.e. sound and gears and vibration. EVs can never match that. They are always more dull and joyless.
The market for ice sport cars might end even before that. Ford no longer sells Focus RS in Europe for example, the emission standards killed it. But there is more to the issue. If car manufacturers stop producing common ice cars, there won't be any backbone for the development of the sport car and so they will become much more expensive to design and build and so unprofitable. There is also a matter of gasoline, if all the normal cars are electric, you won't just buy fuel at fuel station as they will be gone, so you will have to buy it in specialty shops and it will cost a lot and will be a chore. Granted that will probably happen much later than an advent of a light electric sports car, but still there are many more factors that can accelerate the demise of the sport ice car unrelated to the direct electric competition.
@@Hello_there_obi there are many things that you can do in an electric drivetrain that you can not do in an ICE drivetrain that makes EVs fun to drive.
There is an Imiev (an underpowered bubble car that couldn't possibly be be considered sporty) with a sports one pedal driving mode. It is so much fun to drive that everyone that drives it can't help themselves drive it like a normal person. It is just too hard to drive it slow.
@@franciscoshi1968 weight kills the nimbleness and joy of thrashing a car around a racetrack. Straight-line speed alone means little in circuit racing. EVs have a long way to go to compete with modern sports cars in the corners.
@@JoeBlo2 the car I am taking about is slow. It is underpowered. I has pitiful straight line acceleration it is a tall narrow bubble kei car and it is so much more fun to drive than if it was petrol. I guess you wouldn't know until you drive it. The same behavior on a more powerful car with better dynamics would be so much better. You can throw it into a corner and use the regen braking to get the back to slide (like a hand brake turn) get it sideways then quickly floor it to get the wheels spinning. Unfortunately it can only do that on a wet road because it is underpowered. It is definitely more fun than having to shift, clutch and hand brake clutch ... and the power is so smooth out of the corner you can feel the wheels starting to slip and can keep it just at the right point. If this car was lower, had a motor three times the power and some fatter tyres it would be amazing.
The plaid may be quick but it doesnt have the best handling
And remember the IDR only has a range of 13 miles.
Making electric cars quite slow when you factor in the extended stops in any journey of any length
@@philspencelayh5464 that's why hybrids are superior if you need a car that can go on roadtrips. In daily city driving nothing beats electric cars
@@dehanbadenhorst1398 diesel
@@THESLlCK I mean, yeah, good point. Although, if you drive almost exclusively in the city, the hybrid is still better than diesel, and if you have to you can still do a road trip without any range anxiety
@@THESLlCK if you can have 2 cars, one electric and one diesel is perfect, diesel for long trips and electric for city
I don't give a dime those old supercars are iconic filled with soul and marvelous engines plus most of those supercars are way better looking than new ev
Salty
Subjective opinion. Means very little.
Why the fall back to 0-60 times? Only thing of interest is range and how long it will last before it will no longer take a charge.
I'm waiting on delivery of an MG EP EV (sold in Europe as the MG5 SW EV), it's relatively tame at 160hp and a 0-100km/h of 8 seconds , but for a "cheap" car (even compared to a gasoline-powered equivalent), that's not half bad!
The Tesla Model S Plaid’s top speed is 175 mph in Trackmode.
Lol..... it's still waaaay yo slower than a 500hp ICE.
@@carholic-sz3qv your point is?
@@carholic-sz3qv 2.3 second 0-60mph
supercars feel better. i get more fun driving 60 mph in my Porsche with howling flat six noise and style than driving at 80 mph in Model 3. my dream car would be R8 V10+ just can't beat the sheer driving pleasure of it.
Nah slow cars feel even more fun, I get even more fun attempting to get to 120km/hour in my Honda s660 driving with more noise with less sound insulation and more style in a JDM than i ever felt even in a fat and heavy porsche. My dream car would be a suzuki cappucino cos you can't beat a mini miata for the sheer driving pleasure of driving in twisty touge mountains.
The loss of engine noise is one of the worst things about EVs imo 😔 Noise is such a major part of a car's character
@@KAZ8264 You can simulate the sound and 'feel' of anything, electronically. Nobody does it because when you can toggle switch all that stuff, nobody toggles it back to ICE after the novelty has worn off.
The model S plaid as been recorded going 216 mph with a unlocked software, and the stock car (for now, until they get better tyres) goes to 175 mph and not 162 like you said.
Cane here from the tire dyi viddy. I'm a new subscriber! Thanks for the great videos!
Doesn't matter how fast they are they don't have a soul a character a personality, which old supercars were known for
That is subjective. Half of the population only want to get from A to B.
@@montreauxs we are not most population my man
Define a soul. I’d prefer to be an extension of myself.
And how often do you need to go faster than 75 mph? Most cars spend almost all of the time going zero MPH, and when they're not sitting, moving faster than 75 MPH can cost you thousands of dollars and your license.
As we learned here in Vegas recently, selling cars that go ridiculously fast to any moron with a lot of money is really dangerous for themselves and everyone around them. Scott spent years learning how to drive very fast with no margin for error and more years learning how to do it slightly better than other drivers on a dedicated track in a controlled event once in awhile, and still drivers are killed and maimed.
I reckon you must be spot on. There's a market in Tesla powertrain swaps to classic cars. Either Tesla sells these units (????) or there's a lot being written off.
I'm in traffic all the time which cruises at 85; no problem. We have a few 75mph speed limits. I imagine nobody wants any car so powerless it can't exceed 85.
1:14 M4 need 2.5" from 80 to 120 km/h (50-74 mph) and i3S (+14hp) 4.3", so its not even close from the 0,6" difference that you said.
ICE cars has instant 100% torque too using clutch/launch control so it cant be the reason.
Yeah, very few ICE vehicles can keep up with a Tesla Model S Plaid even at higher speeds. Okay, sure, it's limited to ~160 MPH, but the notion that EVs taper off above normal highway speeds is outdated thanks to the Plaid's new motors.
I mean exactly. Where is anybody going over 100 on a road that isn’t a track? The plaid clearly isn’t a track car.
Not quite production car but 16 unit boutique production NIO EP9 smashed the Nurburgring record at 6:45.9 which is just absurd for any car.
1:37 213 brake horsepower and does 0-60 in 6.7s and calls it better than most hot hatches, well even my dad's fiesta st has 200 bhp and does it in 6.5s lol.
My ND Miata RF does 0-100km/h in some 6,8-6,9s. And it's only 160bhp.
@@SpadajSpadaj u see? That's what I mean.
Nah.
Fiesta as well as other hot hatches will always wear out before any EV.
@@montreauxs well have fun paying 12k for a battery that will last 2 years lol.
Most performance cars are limited to 240kph and places like Australia would consider speeds of 160 kph (100mph) as outrages and you lose your licence at 140 kph even on motorways with a relatively low speed limit of 110kph so a 160 kph speed limited car is not too much of a problem in the real world if you can get there in five seconds.
Here in the Uk if you’re caught doing 100mph or above on the motorway banned no matter what. The same with drink driving, if you’re over 35 micrograms of alcohol when you’re tested banned no matter what.
top speed only matters so much, acceleration, handling, and brakes matter much more then high top speeds
I haven't noticed too many of your hot hatches coming past my Leaf at 98mph...
Get with the program DM. Long distance trips in my model 3 are superior to my previous ICE vehicles in every way. A 10 minute stop to travel 600 km is no different than with my old cars. Still need to stop for a coffee and pee.
Tesla Model s plad goes to 0 to 60 in 1.99 sec
And max speed at 200 MPH
I believe electric sports car enthusiasts prefer them over petrol sports cars because they are much easier to drive fast and require much less skill. I believe people who do not completely understand how to drive a manual, how to rev match, heel and toe, counter steering, and have little to no experience or interest stacking and improving your lap time at a race track, but instead prefer driving straight with no steering imput and only pushing down on your right leg for a few seconds and then releasing your leg before it gets too scary; then an electric one gear straight line no-apex driving low skill car is the preferred choice.
Electric motors simply make all those unnecessary.
It us much more fun to drive a car that can never be in the wrong gear. It is always on the power band and responds fast enough to do a hand brake turn with one foot and has accelerator control so perfect with no lag whatsoever that power slides are child's play.
Hyperbole much?
A comment...that I saw on another post...
These are not "electric" vehicles...they ARE battery powered...like a cordless drill...
got any gas powered drills lying about?
@@jamesengland7461 Here in Texas...we call them "Oil Derricks"...
Todays heavy EV sedans like the S Plaid and Lucid dream even the phat X Plaid SUV beats today's ferrari, lambo, mclaren, porsche and even bugatti!
04:26
It would, but at very long time ig,
since most manufacturer still experimenting for sustainable 10min charging every 200 miles for comfy roadtrip
A lot of EV motors for the road are designed to be as small and light as possible and for their efficiency range to be peaked around freeway speeds. Because of this reason, many EVs for the road have very flat torque curves that maintain peak torque but once the peak power region is reached (field weakening region) the torque cruve doesn't follow the 1/x style curve like expected. This is becuase in this region the rotor is much hotter and the stator has more losses that it can't absorb by just adding more power. To have a motor that acts more like a performance car You'd have to design a motor for a continuous high power output. This means more rotor magnet pairs and more voltage and more cooling to keep performance at maximum. The other thing to do is use more efficient inverters that can detect what's happening with the motor and adjust the AC parameters to continuously get better performance out of it. These motors are very expensive though. A decent track centric motor and inverter will set you back $30k compared to a used Leaf motor, leaf inverter, and open inverter kit which will run you about $3k for a low milage good condition motor with tech support as well.
Faster you say? Alright, you drive any EV you want and I’ll drive my Golf GTI, and we’ll go from Florida to New York. And we will know the truth.
No matter what anyone says I will always stay with fun gasoline cars even if this means they are slower.
Good for you
Gay
Time to create some E-supercars with plasma thrusters🔥
If you go far enough back in time, in sports car history. I'm sure any modern commuter car with a CVT is faster and can out handle...
Your video are very informative and make a my life good and sad days better also go evs
ICE - spinning hard drive
EV - SSD
And NVMe - Soon as battery tech improves, which is imminent.
Are you going to try the Moose Test on Rivian cars?
*on straight roads...
6:25
This is Rimac (not Rimek) concept One.
Concept 2 is renamed Nevera.
I think you can use the permanent (neodymium) magnet em drive to power a smaller alternator inside its outer ring, and have an almost self driving car, the fuel is whatever is used as a conductor or propellant such as mercury, and the magnetic charge of the magnets. That way it wouldn't need charging, just maintenence. The alternator part would only work when needed, and it should still run without an electric charge, as long as the magnets produce opposite charge of the fuel or conductor, then without electric current it should still work, just not as well. To stop the motor or slow it, you'd just alter the direction of the magnetic plates in the motor, until the conductor is stationary, or reversed. An AI program should be written to power the Magnet Drive, as there is a huge ammount of different ways it can be configured, with different fuel sources. In an aircraft, it would be a stand alone job just to make sure the magnetic drive is working the best way.
Its all about energy density. Petrol is 8760Wh/L. So a 50L tank holds ~438000Wh = 438kWh of potential energy. And weights about 40kg (petrol is lighter than water). Lets take a modern powertrain with 30% efficiency. 438*0.3=131.4kWh of usable energy to the wheels.
On the EV side. Li-Ion battery cells have an energy desity in the range of 100-265Wh/Kg. From very old ones on the low side to high cobalt on the high side. Lets take the high side. A 500kg cell array would have an energy density of 132.5kWh. This is as much as the net energy of the ICE car after its losses. If we assume a 90% efficiency for the EV, we have 119.25kWh of usable energy to the wheels. But the 500kg weight is only the li-ion cell. So lets make a ballpark estimation that the whole battery pack is 550kg.
So. In order to just come equall to a modern ICE petrol, you need at least half a ton of batteries, and lug them around all the time. And thats not gonna happen soon on a 20k€ hatchback, or a 15k€ supermini. There is no coming around the fat elephant in the room. The energy density of Li-Ion batteries might be the best we have in terms of batteries, but is a far cry compared to liquid fuels.
Thats why im saying that EVs wont make sense (unless you can charge at home) until the offer 150+kWh batteries at the same price as a small ICE hatchback (~20-30k€).
It's good to hear that the electric cars are accelerating so quickly. It would be good to hear how the electric cars can tow a small trailer, a small caravan or a trailer sailer. In Australia the speed limits are are mostly if not entirely go up to 110 klm. per hour. The knowledge that the latest s model can top 160 or 200 miles an hour academic if the average Jo or Josephine will never drive at these speeds. I only point this out because Australia's ludite Pollies hate evs. If they're ever going to take their collective heads out of their collective arses evs will need to be explained in how well the run, tow a trailer and handle the groceries and pick up the children from school.
thats true, but entirely misses the point of Driven Media, centered around motorsport. For this sort of information, there are loads of channels out their but this one is purely about 99th percentile performance
Nobody laughs about the BMW I3 anymore when I am driving this thing.
That doesn't explain it. Real answer to "why" is, there is no real penalty in putting a more powerful electric motor to a car (to a point, of course). Triple the power, and car will cost nearly the same, have the exact same range or fuel economy, will weigh maybe 20kgs heavier and motor will still occupy a tiny space relative to batteries or luggage space etc.. Because increasing power is essentially adding more coiled wires to the motor and more coolant to cope with extra temps. So why not do it?
Yeah but eventually the electric cars will make so much power they wont pass emissions... Oh wait lol
@@derekmaxwell8164 yeah , because desposing or "recycling" 1 ton of lithium is a very task to do . If everyone in the world had electric cars we wouldn't even be able to provide the necessary materials to build them . They're just shitty and inefficient for now at least . Unless you are implying that everyone has 50+ k euros /dollars to buy brand new electric cars. It just ain't happening for at least 2-3 decades.
@@jimjimmy3131 they are already achieving quite competitive prices for recycled battery materials and we are only at the beginning of the road, so I think your fears are unfounded
Tesla's motor already spins at 20kRPM and adding more power would make it spin even faster (I assume you don't want to change gearing if you are talking about tripling the power of the motors) which is a non trivial engineering task to control it.
There is also the issue of batteries, they need to be able to give out all the needed power and so you'd need to triple their power output without degrading them really fast if you want to tripple the motors' power and it's not doable at this moment.
@@jimjimmy3131 I do not think anyone buying a race car cares much about the environment.
Also awd vs rwd, and much better tire technology
Gears are really new on electric cars, and I can expect the same way it happened with ICE cars gaining ratios up from 3 to 4 to nowadays even 10 gears to happen with Electric Cars, imagine a tiny little city EV using the same power in narrow streets as it would on the Autobahn with multiple ratios to cope with the speed
The torque curve of an electric motor is going to make 3-4 ratios seem kinda silly. The Porsche only needs multiple ratios at speeds WAY beyond what you can legally drive in most places.
Hyundai ionic may be quicker than Ferrari Testarossa. But no matter what it doesn't have Testarossa's character. It's the same with every EVs.
a legendary car that is fast,gorgeous,fun
and have a soul
VS
the vergin testarossa.......
But i thing becuz ionic is automatic . so When it on a Track Racing with Testarossa the Ionic will Oversteer alot :))( .
It's still not about the power. It's not even about the range. EVs are terrible when it comes to "refuelling". That's the single most important factor that counts against them. I have two cars - one is a diesel engined suv with a 70 or so liter tank. I refill the tank every month or so. The other one is a Miata which has a 35 (or 45; i don't remember) liter tank which I refill every few days or so - I drive the Miata way more often ;-)
But I don't have to make plans when, where and how to refill. I just go to the station when the fuel level drops around 1/4, sit there for 3-5 minutes or so and I'm back on the road. Try that with EV.
I'm not even touching the case of long journeys, especially during "popular" times.
Tnat's the problem with EVs.
I used to drive a car which had 21 litre tank which lasted for some 300 kilometers if you wanted to bleed it dry. In reality you refilled every 200km or so. But still it wasn't that much of a problem because it could have been refilled easily at any time.
...or you could plug your car in at your home outlet and have a "full tank" every morning.
@@jamesengland7461 Oh, how I love this faulty argument. Firstly, only a small part of society lives in places which could allow you to plug the car in for the night. Secondly, the grid might be able to support additional load as long as there is a small number of loading cards, but will fail if the number rises significantly. And thirdly - it still doesn't solve the problem. It only masks a single aspect of it. Oh, and we didn't even went into the territory of commercial vehicles. And military ones. And construction machines.
Oh, and please tell those Ukrainian refuges which took their cars to the border that they would be happy to sit for a few hours in the middle of their run and wait for the battery to load. Sorry, you can't - as I wrote before- chat physics. Batteries are way behind liquid field in terms of energy density and transfer speed. And rising transfer speed means losses and higher risks because you need ridiculous currents. You can't cheat physics.
@@SpadajSpadaj over 65% of American families own their own homes, and millions more rent homes. Most of them could easily have a home charger installed. EVs would work for them. They don't have to work for every single driver on the planet. EVs are a great and fully viable option, and don't ever have to be the only way. A reasonable discussion about this new means of transportation can be had.
@@jamesengland7461 Oh, the american-centric argument. Imagine that not all people in the world live in US. And even of those people I suppose many households own and regularily use two or more cars - that means twice the needed power. Are you sure that american power grid will support such load? Typical monthly energy use is around 900kWh per month. Now imagine that every home charges one car every night. One thing is that the power load on the grid rises as a whole but another thing is that if everyone does it at the same time, you get a spike across the whole grid whereas normally the load is more uniform.
You're cherrypicking.
And I'm not saying that EVs as such are bad or that they are not useful for anyone - my neighbours have two BEVs (Nissan Note and some small Citroen) and it seems to work pretty well for them. I'm only saying that EVs propaganda happily ignores (or dismisses as "not important") some serious issues with electromobility.
Oh, and let's imagine that I even own a car with a several hundred km range. And I use it to drive to my family for a weekend. They live some 350kms away. I might even be able to reach them using the charge I "loaded" at home. What now? Their wallbox(es) are occupied because they are charging their own cars.
So I should have an EV for driving locally and a ICE-powered car for longer trips? Kinda expensive. If I wanted two cars I'd have a daily car and a fun car. Oh, wait...
Hybrid vehicles are relatively effective and are a generally nice idea. They have one downside though - the hybrid drivetrain is more complicated and thus more expensive than purely ICE-based car.
Again - I admit that the electric motors are a great thing (although the "whistling" of the inverters used for controlling them is annoying like hell). It's the energy storage and transfer element is lacking. We've known electric cars for almost as long as we've known the car itself. It's no accident that ICE-powered cars prevailed for so long. Yes, the batteries came a long way but there's still a long way to go.
And we didn't even touch the safety of electric cars - maybe the BEVs do not get on fire as often as you'd imagine by reading the news but if they do we have no way of extinguishing them whereas we know pretty well what to do with gasoline/diesel fueled ones. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw limited accessibility to underground garages and the like because of that.
So it's not all that easy. I am all for a _reasonable_ discussion but I'm against the propaganda that's been going on for last few years.
Oh, and a great case of "electric mobility" I saw were electric busses which during winter used liquid fuel combustion based unit for heating. So the bus was indeed powered by battery and electric motors but needed to burn liquid fuel (I don't remember if it was gasoline or diesel) to keep the temperature up. Oh, and in the end it turned out that in many cases EV buses' running costs were higher than ICE-based. So, you know, it's not that simple.
@@SpadajSpadaj no, I was not using an American- centric argument. You just want to look for an argument. I was simply using an example to indicate that lots of Americans could charge an EV at home. I also mentioned that EVs are an option, not the only way. I have nothing to do with whatever propaganda you've seen; nor do I have anything to do with the stupid examples you're digging up. I'll leave it with you.
Could you make a video explaining why any running ICE car (think Yugo, Geo Storm level of junk) can beat a Tesla from Chicago to Denver now?
If you can pay for the gas! ahaha!
bug off
I can afford gas still, barely thanks to Brandon, but not a Tesla. I have nothing against EVs. I may even get one for a daily driver, but I get tired of the "faster than a Ferrari" crap. Sure it's true, but so us the "slower than a Yugo over 1,200 miles". Like everything, the zealots ruin everything.
OK...but how about Chicago to Denver with reasonable breaks for driver + occupants? Put in some realistic bathroom stops (they always take longer than the actual time of fuelling the car) and they both end up about the same, constrained by safe speed limits in traffic. Also, I'd sure rather spend 20 hours in my Model Y than a Yugo...especially with Autopilot on the freeway!
Because new cars are about numbers, old cars were about emotions
They advertise models s plaid to be capable of doing 200mph pending some changes to the car (can't be drastic, as there are cars already out that should be able to get this upgrade) and it still has only single gear, so I think the era of 200mph BEVs is just around the corner.
And to go faster than 200? Just add another gear. Bam 400
@@seasonedchick3n that car has 6 gears. Plaid does 200 in 1 gear. If you want to go faster just add another gear. It’s just difficult because the plaid motor spins at 20000+ rpm. The tips of the motor spin faster than the speed of sound
And yes electric does need cooling. The rimac has a radiator so saying evs don’t need cooling is dumb. If something dumps loads of power into something it makes heat
@@ClebyHerris Good luck finding tires that can go faster than 200mph without disintegrating, This is silliness.
@@jerrybrown6169 the land speed record is 600+ mph using tires or metal tires not rubber
I really wish tesla releases the roadster, all of their cars are excellent all rounders but are ugly outside with the cybertruck as an exception.
Is all relative though, in Australian distances all EV's are slower than a big truck over a 1200km daily drive
How many Australians do a 1200km daily drive?
@@MeTube3 There are over 20 in this one town plus bigger rigs doing the daily run
@@jackrussell7058 ok, not many then. I guess if they ignore their mandatory break after 5.5 and 8 hours they might keep up with a Mercedes’ EQS that has 700km range and can recharge in less than an hour on a rapid charge station.
@@MeTube3 lack of infrastructure at loading points and rural areas, Sub optimal charge rates leave a very long way to go. I really hope it all improves.
All anyone can ever talk about is how fast EV's are in acceleration. Just ignore all of the other driving dynamics.
@L W 300 range is pathetic. It's a penalty for most. Americans hate being told how they should be happy with limitations put on their lives, told how far they should like to drive, told how long they should like to wait around for a charge, told how they should like paying stupid prices for gas and electric, told how they should get rid of their combustion engines and buy stupid high cost electrics, told how they should quit their country living and cram themselves into a stupid city, told how they should quit eating so much meat, told they should like eating bugs and weeds, told how we should like to be hooked up to A.I. and monitored 24/7, told what we should stick in our blood.
No. 300 mile range is crap. Several hours to charge is crap. 4800-6000 pound vehicles are crap. 60 thousand dollars to get around in an electric box is crap. Poking around highways at pathetic 1970's speeds is crap.
Yeah, that super-low center of gravity is such a bummer.
Hatchbacks are also faster than old super cars, but thats because tech has improved and the compound in tires is better, but they arent really faster, they can just have more sharp turns because of the new tires, brakes, and suspension
That is still part of the overall car.
my humble little leaf off the line is quicker than my old 5 second sports car. Perfect for city driving, 70-100 is where its slow, low gearing and big torque :)
I thought u would go more into detail about how evs went from being weak slow toy car type of cars to what they are today in a matter of a decade or so. Maybe there was a break through in certain part of ev technology ?
It's all about the electronics to monitor and cool the batteries plus new modem materials and batteries.
Tesla designed a new electric motor that changed the magnetic fields somehow. I don't remember the specifics, but Sandy Monroe explained it on his channel.
@@catsaregovernmentspies nope it's just the magnets arangments to allow the carbon fiber wrapping nothing special.
@@carholic-sz3qv Oh yes making excuses yet again
@@relansis6962 which excuses are you talking about!!!
I have an ebike with a central motor that drives through the 10 speed gears. Having spoken to people who use hub drives with no gears it seems that I have a range of between 2 and 10 times what they get. I have always been puzzled by electric cars lack of gears when range is such a massive problem. Why don't they fit, perhaps a 100hp motor and a gearbox to spin out the range? It can't be to keep the cost down because they all cost a lot.
I completely agree, the only response I've ever gotten when asking has been efficiency and complexity. Basically the argument is having those 1, 2, or 4 extra gears is enough extra weight and friction to nullify the effect of the motor's greater efficiency at low rpms. I don't really see how a two speed transmission could do that, but apparently it's true.
If you think about your e-bike example a bit more, the much flatter torque curve of an electric motor is why you can even consider a hub motor on an e-bike. Yes, it has limitations compared to a mid-drive bike (i.e. there still is a torque curve), but when you have something like a Tesla AWD with different gear ratios to different motors on the front and rear axles, adding in a gearbox with multiple ratios just doesn't pay off at the speeds one ends up driving on open roads.
EV's also have much more spectacular explosions and fires. Never say they don't push the boundaries of motoring. ;-)
They don’t actually, look up the statistics to verify this claim (or if you don’t want to tell me to and I’ll get you a link, but I don’t want you to think I’m cherry picking so better to do yourself)
@@bcunningham3718 ask Hammond
@@sebastianjuppscharwachter9022 who/what is that?
@@sebastianjuppscharwachter9022 Or ask Chris Harris about the Alpine A110 he tested on Top Gear around the same time. Hammond had to smash the Rimac into little peices to get it to catch fire some time later. The Alpine managed it all by itself, whilst it was still being driven.
@@bcunningham3718 Richard hammond
A GR Yaris is both more powerful and lighter than a Mercedes SL 300 Gullwing.
One was a supercar trying to murder the driver, the other is a grocery getter on meth...anol.
The difference between them is... 60, 70 years?
Should change the title, "Why normal ev faster than hypercar" :D
And to trigger rich & braggy people you can make future content like, "What's hyper and super about hypercar and supercar other than their ridiculous price and marketing tactics" :D
Just kidding.
Always great content from you. Thanks
why is everyone lying. they are faster dragracin or one lap. anything more and they overheat.
Iirc, porsche are working on a gearbox for their EVs to add top speed to the mix
Should have kept watching before making this comment
This is like saying
This is why new 100km runners are faster than 100km runners from.60 years ago
You shouldn:t be proud for being faster than grandpa
The BMW iX is vastly different. It performs similarly to a ICE car.
RIMAC IS BEST ❤️👏💪👋🙏 NO porshe no tesla ,Rimac Nevera go 0-60 mph in 1.7 seconds best 🙏👋💪👏❤️❤️it has everything
Electric cars haven't come this far. Only due to bigger battery all of this is possible. Electric motors were always powerful.just see bullet traina
It’s entertaining (and a bit frustrating) watching petrol heads downplay 0-60 just because gas cars are getting destroyed. Lol EVs are not incapable of higher top speeds. It’s just the ones produced today are passenger vehicles, which cannot legally exceed 80 mph in pretty much every country except Germany on the Autobahn. So when 99% of driving is < 80 mph, 0-60 is 100% more important than top speed.
But as the video explained, if a car company, like Porsche for example, decides to make an actual race car with electric motors and a more complex transmission, gas cars will stand no chance. Engines are not what’s driving top speed. Transmission does that. Tesla is achieving 162 top speed on a single gear transmission. What happens when you give a Tesla a 6-gear paddle shifter like it’s ICE counterpart? Yeah, RIP gas cars.
I still with my Petro engine.
Challenged a Tesla Plaid with my Superbike 🙈, 0 to whatever no Chance, only 100-250 i had a Chance... 😂 Since this me and my wife have electric Cars, and i wait for the first Suzuki electric motorcycle 😁
It was a golf mk2 not an mk3
Ehh, you're again mixing the terms "fast", "quick across the course", "best accelerating" and the like. Electric cars are indeed quick-accelerating due to the nature of the electric engine and the ability to provide almost constant torque across the whole useful rev range from the full stop.
The production electric cars are limited by the characteristics of the engine - whereas ICE-powered cat typically reaches its top power with its top speed (it's limited by engine power - it doesn't generate enough force to keep accelerating), typical electric car is limited by rev range of the engine - after certain threshold the torque starts declining rapidly and you can't use the full power of the engine due to lack of the gearbox which would allow you to "trade" torque for revs.
If you fitted the electric car with a proper gearbox, the power would be the single most important factor (along with the body shape but I assume they are similar) determining top speed. You can't cheat physics.
I would not trade my C8 for any of them.
Easy- electric motors are all torque. Acceleration is instant in an EV.
Where the hell are you going to drive 160mph
Not really sure this one needs explaining.
Don't fear the future. Enjoy it unfolding.
their not faster, their **quicker**
electric car have no exzos sounds
*in a straight line.
You know supercars aren't built for the drag strip right? Sheesh.
My VW Jetta can reach 0-60 at less than 1 nanosecond fr its all about tuning
Go look at power curves for a Tesla 3 and, say, fiesta 1.0 100hp.
Tesla instant torque and hits max power instantly, then trails off.... eventually.
Ford, peak twist has vanished by the time you get to max power. It can't ever get there, so you may as well change up a gear.
The best bit is cruising, doing 1500rpm, the fiesta is pulling a whopping 30hp. Responsive? Err, no.
Ps, I adore my fiesta
If they are faster or not sort of depends on the race / conditions.
Still think even an older 1980s cheapo car will beat the highest end Tesla in a simple cross country race, even in an electrified country like Norway.
Even if you go at the speed limits, the electric car will lose, and it will lose by hours, not minutes or seconds.
The problem is that the old econobox will do a fuel stop in 5-10 minutes at worst, while an electric car will have to stay put for 30-45 minutes, and that is if you are lucky enough to have a working charger or one that is fast.
Even more so as the legal stuff and deals regarding battery swap architecture isn't fleshed out or set up at this point.
What if we made an ev swap with a stock transmission from an intermal combustion car and add a tach.... I think it would be the best of both worlds
EV VW Beetles are exactly that. Drop the boxer 4-banger, add a "washing machine motor" with 30HP, a heck load of batteries, and take advantage of the original 4-speed transmission even to reverse the car, no need to an electrical switch to reverse the motor itself.
I heard it is a riot to drive, and perfect as a teaching tool, since you can completely stop the car and it won't "stall", and zip away on any gear.
@@lfla0179 Id plan to do that to my Civic with a single tesla or lucid motor replacing the B series under the hood and replacing the fuel tanks with LI-Ion batteries and also adding some under the floors if it works
@@weesamexpress6730 The weight of the batteries would crush the Honda's suspension. The boundary is the weight, any other consideration excluded. Provided the suspension is beefed up, it would behave like an armored vehicle.
For a recent on-track EV review check out Hagerty TH-cam video w/ Lucid Air for tire-melting glory.
but people buying super cars they want to hear the roar of super cars the electric super cars don't offers that
People buy cars for which is faster from 0-60??svrew the leaf, tesla, I want to enjoy driving... Listen to the engine...not buy something to show I'm a better human than the others...
electric motorcycles entering the chat ....
they may be slower, but I personally always find myself looking for an internal combustion car for a therapeutic sunday drive
They are faster than ALL cars
In Richard Hammond's defense the brakes went out.
broke his right foot y'all forget about that too..
I thought it was torque vectoring not knowing what to do and just spun it in a circle
the brakes didn't go out; he drove too fast to make the corner
It’s weird that practically no car guys will acknowledge the fact that standard EVs smoke their supercars 10 times out of 10
You are pronouncing Plaid incorrectly for an Englishman ? - you are pronouncing it P-Lad like an American.
Petrolheads when buying macs: yeah it's more powerful, BUT I hate how the m1 chip doesn't get hot and make all sorts of fan noise. Is anyone else a fan of when macs used intel and radeon? back then fan noise showed off how powerful your laptops were! WE COULD GO FROM FULL TO EMPTY BATTERY IN LESS THAN 2 HOURS!
Spot.On.
Because you only measure them for acceleration. They suck in turns and overheat before they complete a single lap.